Maya Step Up Promo

[fahr]

The last time Alias offered up a drastic price cut promo they dropped the price of Maya to $1995 shortly thereafter.... SIGGRAPH is coming soon.... Hmmmm...... :)

I have no idea, really, but it sounds fishy. In a good way!

Too bad I only have Maya 6.0. :(

[JDex]

Maybe we'll see Maya Complete for $395... Unlimited for $1995... LOL!

They're probably going to swing back at SI with a Foundations-like version and drop the prices for Complete and Unlimited by $500...

[roger3d]

Maybe here is what´s possibly happening.
The competitors will show something cool in SIGGRAPH (a new version of XSI, C4D, ect).
And Alias is just trying to make their currently users loyal, making promotions for them to not be tempted to switch to other packages.

But a cool thing I´m waiting (since the company I work for already have unlimited) is the new cool renderers that will be available (I hope) at SIGGRAPH. And Renderman for Maya is one of them.:)

[roger3d]

Maybe we'll see Maya Complete for $395... Unlimited for $1995... LOL!


LOL! If this happens, softimage will pay for us to use XSI Foundation!!

[jeremybirn]

All of this price-cutting has me worried.

Not just for Alias, but Max, Softimage, Lightwave, everybody who has been slashing prices -- eventually, this leads to companies laying off workers and shutting offices (we've already seen a lot of that) or shutting down completely. The idea that a perminant software license has to cost less than what a company spends every week on every animator is a losing proposition for the software companies, and I fear it will catch up to them and eventually limit our software choices.

-jeremy

[TopherMartini]

You raise a very good point Jeremy.

As a hobbyist in 3d lower prices are always nice, but if that means less R&D funding for future versions or diminished quality in current versions than no one really wins.

Learning Maya is like drinking out of the fire hose, and with MEL and the Maya API it's like drinking out a fire hose attached to the Hoover Dam.

I feel the quality and community behind Maya (or any 3d/fx app) are where the real value shines. This is an amazing app for an amazing price to existing customers. Now if I can only slave myself out for $3k to upgrade my license... :cry:

[leuey]

I agree - and it means less R&D as well. Of course Luxology has been pretty heavily criticized on this board for keeping the price of Modo "high". Brad Peebler is pretty open about his opinion on their pricing and the market's sustainability. In the end the consumer will decide - I wouldn't be shocked to see Alias drop their prices, and I can't see how that's a good thing. I just can't imagine being able to sustain the type of R&D needed for cutting edge 3D software, plus a support staff and sufficiently documenting the software if you're selling it at a loss. I think Alias tries to make up for it with support fees and training material - but I don't see this as a good trend. I think it's plenty affordable (at least the base version of each package..)



-Greg

All of this price-cutting has me worried.


Not just for Alias, but Max, Softimage, Lightwave, everybody who has been slashing prices -- eventually, this leads to companies laying off workers and shutting offices (we've already seen a lot of that) or shutting down completely. The idea that a perminant software license has to cost less than what a company spends every week on every animator is a losing proposition for the software companies, and I fear it will catch up to them and eventually limit our software choices.

-jeremy

[DanSilverman]

Maybe here is what´s possibly happening.
The competitors will show something cool in SIGGRAPH (a new version of XSI, C4D, ect).

I am wondering about this myself. Most of the major 3D apps are running on older kernels and it is time for a complete rewrite. For example, the MAX kernel has been patched and updated since version 1.2 and it is still the same kernel used in MAX 7.x. But rumor has it that MAX is getting a new kernel for v8, which is not all that far away from release (judging by other version release dates). Also, with Discreet going away and Autodesk "reclaiming" MAX, it sort of makes you wonder what they have up their sleeves. I've heard rumors, but shall not share them here ;) .

But it makes you wonder what is going on. Perhaps each will have something new to show off concerning their perspective apps. Only time will tell.

As far as pricing, what the selling price of an app can sustain depends on how they sell it and to whom. Obviously if they target a tighter niche market then the prices may need to be higher. If the app can be targeted to a broader range of people then prices can be lower and the difference made up in volume sales. Also, there is a trend to offer downloadble versions with only electronic docs. This saves companies a lot of money as they do not have to produce paper manuals, professionally burn CDs and create boxes, etc (or at least allows them to cut down on the production a bit). The problem overall is that 3D seems to always be a niche market so there are only so many ways to broaden the market.

[Steve Green]

I totally agree with Jeremy, and I thought that the intial price cut of Maya would start a worrying trend, which seems to have continued with the ludicrously cheap price of XSI Foundation. I really hope that no-one else tries to do the same.

Certainly in the UK I've seen an increase in the number of game industry jobs geared towards Maya and a little XSI at the expense of Max, so it does seem to be paying off.

However, I've noticed that the cheaper apps maintenace and upgrade prices are pretty expensive, and I wonder how many people keep don't current with them because the upgrade price is so much compared to the initial cost. I know that my seat of Maya complete is still on 5...

I think the initial cost is only one part, it's the regular income of subscriptions or upgrades has a part to play as well.

I don't see how price-cutting to this degree can be a long-term solution, maybe if one vendor pulled out then it could return to some sort of normality...

- Steve

[archerx]

come on you guys have to look at it the other way, if the prices are cheaper more people can afford it. so they could make more money instead of having 1 person buying it a 3k they could get 5 people buying at 1k! and it could make people who are using illegal versions buy legit versions since it would be more affordable!

[RayenD]

I agree about above comments - while price drops are good for me as a person, there is a possibility that it won't be so good in long term.

My speculation is that companies are trying to cash in on raising popularity of "homemade" 3D. It might have something to do with hardware prices - back then to run Sofimage or Poweranimator or other high end software you had to spend thousands of $$$ on hardware. Now most 3D apps are able to run on a computer you can buy in supermarket.

XSI move last year was a kind of permament promotion to gain more market, on the side we got access to high end software for small price, but I don't know why Alias would do the same.

The worst scenario could be that in few years we will be left with some degenerated off the shelf version of our favorite 3D app, but all serious 3D shops around the world will run in-house developed tools or at least heavily modified versions (hmm, well it's happening right now I think, except "degenrated" part ;) ).

Well, we will see what will happen...

[Srek]

come on you guys have to look at it the other way, if the prices are cheaper more people can afford it. so they could make more money instead of having 1 person buying it a 3k they could get 5 people buying at 1k! and it could make people who are using illegal versions buy legit versions since it would be more affordable!

Thats a very simple calculation and i fear not a very accurate one.
The biggest problem is that 3D animation, modelling and rendering is not something that can easily be done by everyone. The market for such products is very small (much smaller then most hobbyists on the forums realize).
If you have to sell larger numbers of a product at a lower price your marketing and sales efforts increase very much, while at the same time your earnings per sold license shrink.
Where does this leave us?
Shrinking R&D budget, shorter development cycles, tighter competition on a less and less professional market.
Several of the currently sold 3D apps are already given away much below their real value and imo below the costs of development, support and sales.

Interesting times ahead :)

Cheers
Björn

[developer]

[Quote] Several of the currently sold 3D apps are already given away much below their real value and imo below the costs of development, support and sales. [\Quote]

I do also think most users are unaware of the amount of development effort that goes int a 3D app.
If there isnt enough $$$ for a software to earn it will simply disappear from the market.

Regards
Peter

[private]

I think a lot of the companies developing 3D products are bloated. How many people do you need these days? Innovative products are being produced by smaller teams.

Look at Lux, there aren't more than 20 people involved. Look at the Messiah group, less that 10. Look at the NeverCenter Silo team...2?

Alias...bloated. I think software that doesn't come down in price will find it hard to compete, because quality software is getting cheaper and cheaper. There will be a major shakedown sometime soon, and some of the big companies that are big right now won't survive. So beit in my opinion.

In regards to subscription or maintenance fees as part of a software purchase, I wouldn't know. As a Silo and Lightwave user, we get free upgrades throught the whole full point release. And in Lightwave's case, I can sell the licence when I'm done. Good value. That's what I'm looking for. If Alias bites the dust, there will be quality products that can easily take its place...for cheaper.

[Kgen]

I think a lot of the companies developing 3D products are bloated. How many people do you need these days? Innovative products are being produced by smaller teams.

Look at Lux, there aren't more than 20 people involved. Look at the Messiah group, less that 10. Look at the NeverCenter Silo team...2?

Alias...bloated. I think software that doesn't come down in price will find it hard to compete, because quality software is getting cheaper and cheaper. There will be a major shakedown sometime soon, and some of the big companies that are big right now won't survive. So beit in my opinion.

In regards to subscription or maintenance fees as part of a software purchase, I wouldn't know. As a Silo and Lightwave user, we get free upgrades throught the whole full point release. And in Lightwave's case, I can sell the licence when I'm done. Good value. That's what I'm looking for. If Alias bites the dust, there will be quality products that can easily take its place...for cheaper.

It depends what you're using it for, none of the applications you mentioned provide what Maya/Max have to offer in terms of 3d workflow and such.

[Chest_Rockwell]

CG, as small and niche a market as it is, is maturing. To bemoan the price drops and then equate that with future predictions of decline seems to me a bit shortsighted.

While 3d software is hard to create, it's gotten a lot less difficult in the last 5 years. You can find libraries and papers on just about any 3d technique and with current and future software development techniques, the development process is dramatically shortened.

Maya is a bit old too, isn't it? imo, it's showing it's age. It has the feel of an 80's cad application. It's also trying to be everything to everyone, something that is going against the 3d trend as of late. You want innovation, look no further than ZBrush, Silo, or Animanium.

[schuubars]

It depends what you're using it for, none of the applications you mentioned provide what Maya/Max have to offer in terms of 3d workflow and such.


Thats subjective.

[ruukki]

I'm always a bit alarmed when I read about things getting better when something gets cheaper. If a product is - for example - a run-of-a-mill pair of jeans with a label that makes it more expensive, I understand. But not in a case where dozens of creative people have contributed - and continue to contribute. I wouldn't call a 3000$ price for a complicated software especially much. Wouldn't have bought any if I did.

I'm a bit surprised that anyone can even raise the point, when I see no complaints about simpler software that in many cases cost proportionally a lot more.

Anyone who has made anything creative, and tried to sell it, knows what I mean. Would you like a customer say "But is it cheap too?" Of course big companies are faceless to us but in reality it's still people who work in them. Besides... hasn't Alias just come down in price?


I think a lot of the companies developing 3D products are bloated. How many people do you need these days? Innovative products are being produced by smaller teams.

Look at Lux, there aren't more than 20 people involved. Look at the Messiah group, less that 10. Look at the NeverCenter Silo team...2?

Alias...bloated. I think software that doesn't come down in price will find it hard to compete, because quality software is getting cheaper and cheaper. There will be a major shakedown sometime soon, and some of the big companies that are big right now won't survive. So beit in my opinion.

In regards to subscription or maintenance fees as part of a software purchase, I wouldn't know. As a Silo and Lightwave user, we get free upgrades throught the whole full point release. And in Lightwave's case, I can sell the licence when I'm done. Good value. That's what I'm looking for. If Alias bites the dust, there will be quality products that can easily take its place...for cheaper.

[ThomasMahler]

Maya is a bit old too, isn't it? imo, it's showing it's age. It has the feel of an 80's cad application. It's also trying to be everything to everyone, something that is going against the 3d trend as of late. You want innovation, look no further than ZBrush, Silo, or Animanium.

ZBrush, Silo and Animanium (I'm not so sure about the last one, though) may excel in what they're doing, but they're not giving you anywhere the content that you get from purchasing Maya. Maya is a rock-solid animation package that is pretty strong in a lot of different aspects - It's a lot more complex than any of the herein before mentioned applications. And with MEL, you can of course shape it the way you like.

You just can't compare an animation package like Maya that gives you about everything you need with something like Silo or ZBrush.

[mummey]

Maya is a bit old too, isn't it? imo, it's showing it's age. It has the feel of an 80's cad application. It's also trying to be everything to everyone, something that is going against the 3d trend as of late. You want innovation, look no further than ZBrush, Silo, or Animanium.

Of the major apps (3dsmax, Lightwave, Maya and Softimage) Maya is actually the youngest.

[mummey]

All of this price-cutting has me worried.

Not just for Alias, but Max, Softimage, Lightwave, everybody who has been slashing prices -- eventually, this leads to companies laying off workers and shutting offices (we've already seen a lot of that) or shutting down completely. The idea that a perminant software license has to cost less than what a company spends every week on every animator is a losing proposition for the software companies, and I fear it will catch up to them and eventually limit our software choices.

-jeremy

Quoted for agreement.

If the market for 3d software becomes saturated due to cheap prices, we're all in trouble.

[mummey]

You raise a very good point Jeremy.

As a hobbyist in 3d lower prices are always nice, but if that means less R&D funding for future versions or diminished quality in current versions than no one really wins.

Learning Maya is like drinking out of the fire hose, and with MEL and the Maya API it's like drinking out a fire hose attached to the Hoover Dam.

I feel the quality and community behind Maya (or any 3d/fx app) are where the real value shines. This is an amazing app for an amazing price to existing customers. Now if I can only slave myself out for $3k to upgrade my license... :cry:

LOL, also quoted for agreement. :thumbsup:

[daevid]

I may be wrong, but I thought Softimage had the youngest architecture of those. Also, I think Cinema 4d should be mentioned among those major "all-in-one" packages. I don't know when the first version of C4 was released but I think it may be the youngest.

So my oldest achitecture list would look like this.
- Lightwave
- 3d-max
- Maya
- Softimage
- Cinema 4d

Having the youngest architecture doesn't necessary mean having the best, though.

/David

[gent_k]

Of the major apps (3dsmax, Lightwave, Maya and Softimage) Maya is actually the youngest.

uhmm, NO..... Softimage|XSI is.

[Srek]

I don't know when the first version of C4 was released but I think it may be the youngest.

Are you talking only about architecture or about the age of the app itself?
CINEMA is around since Amiga days, just like LW. It had a major rewrite while porting from Amiga to PC/Mac and since then the core has been continously updated with each release.

Cheers
Björn

[Renderman_XSI]

ZBrush, Silo and Animanium (I'm not so sure about the last one, though) may excel in what they're doing, but they're not giving you anywhere the content that you get from purchasing Maya. Maya is a rock-solid animation package that is pretty strong in a lot of different aspects - It's a lot more complex than any of the herein before mentioned applications. And with MEL, you can of course shape it the way you like.

You just can't compare an animation package like Maya that gives you about everything you need with something like Silo or ZBrush.


Rock solid in model tools, off the shelf? i dont know...stuff like Byron Poly Tool make me question that..because all i do is model. IMO this is one area that Alias is really slackin on.

[mummey]

uhmm, NO..... Softimage|XSI is.

XSI yes, but not Softimage. Maya 1.0 was in 1998. Before then you had Alias Power Animator.

History of Softimage (http://www.softimage.com/Corporate/Press/Facts/)
Timeline of Alias/Wavefront (http://www.alias.com/eng/about/history/index.shtml)
Milestones at Newtek (http://www.newtek.com/newtek/milestones.html)

Edit: Yeah I forgot C4D. opps ;)

Maxon Company History (http://www.maxon.net/pages/contact/history_e.html)

Autodesk is a big comglomerate so its tough finding info on the history of 3dsmax from their site. :-P

FLAME AWAY!

[ThirdEye]

[QUOTE=mummeyEdit: Yeah I forgot C4D. opps ;)

Maxon Company History (http://www.maxon.net/pages/contact/history_e.html)[/QUOTE]

http://home.t-online.de/home/p_losch/c4d/c4dproject.html

read this, it's much funnier (written by one of the Losch bros, the guys who invented Cinema4D) ;)

[Slurry]

Isn't possible the software companies see the trend moving from a few large specialised animation and fx houses to a much larger group of small animation/fx houses and independants?

Whether you make your money from 100 companies selling your product at $20,000

or...

Selling your product for $2000 to a 1000 customers.

It doesn't mean you are making less money. It may just be coming in from different sources at different quantities. Profit margins may stay the same or even expand. Still revenues to pour into R&D. Business models change as the market evolves and diversifies. A sure fire way for they software companies to die out is to stay stagnant.

A little early to predict gloom and doom I think.

Art

[tjnyc]

XSI yes, but not Softimage. Maya 1.0 was in 1998. Before then you had Alias Power Animator.


Yeah, but you got it wrong nonetheless. The actual application is Softimage 3D, and it doesn't stand to reason why you would be including it in the list of youngest since XSI is Softimage's main and youngest application not 3D as is Maya for Alias and not PowerAnimator and Max for Autodesk/discreet and not 3D Studio for Dos.


Cheers,

[Srek]

Isn't possible the software companies see the trend moving from a few large specialised animation and fx houses to a much larger group of small animation/fx houses and independants?

Whether you make your money from 100 companies selling your product at $20,000

or...

Selling your product for $2000 to a 1000 customers.

It doesn't mean you are making less money.

But it does. You have much more work in sales, marketing and support if you need 1000 customers.
Cheers
Björn

[ThomasMahler]

I am wondering about this myself. Most of the major 3D apps are running on older kernels and it is time for a complete rewrite. For example, the MAX kernel has been patched and updated since version 1.2 and it is still the same kernel used in MAX 7.x. But rumor has it that MAX is getting a new kernel for v8, which is not all that far away from release (judging by other version release dates). Also, with Discreet going away and Autodesk "reclaiming" MAX, it sort of makes you wonder what they have up their sleeves. I've heard rumors, but shall not share them here ;) .

But it makes you wonder what is going on. Perhaps each will have something new to show off concerning their perspective apps. Only time will tell.

Man, I'd love that. Honestly, Max is such a bloated app, it's not even funny. But it's still one of the best overall packages out there. If there would be a complete rewrite, they could totally kick ass.

I'd actually like to see a Autodesk, Alias, Softimage merger - Think about a package that combines all the good stuff from Max, Maya and XSI into one workflow-driven application... woohoo! :)

Of course, I'm just foolin´ around here, the chances that something like this would happen are as high as a 2005 Mirai 1.5 release, but a major, new 3d app that takes all the good things from every package and combines them into a new one would totally kick ass! :)

[Slurry]

But it does. You have much more work in sales, marketing and support if you need 1000 customers.
Cheers
Björn

Ok, if you are going to take my example as literal...let's sell a thousand copies at $5000.
That will make up for the sales and support staff for this hypothetical example.

The whole point I was making is that a reduction in unit cost in order to broaden a client base does not necessarily foreshadow layoffs, bankruptcy or other gloomy predictions.

Cheers.

Art

[Srek]

Ok, if you are going to take my example as literal...let's sell a thousand copies at $5000.
That will make up for the sales and support staff for this hypothetical example.


I did not try to kid you. Your revised example is even more problematic, since you have a much harder time selling the same thing for 5000 then for 1000.
This kind of calculation is a sure way to bancruptcy. In reality this is nothing that scales nearly linear or even halfway predictable.
You can try to apply this to realy large markets (consumer goods, food, clothing etc.) but when it comes to small specialised markets like 3D apps it simply does not work.

Cheers
Björn

[mummey]

I am wondering about this myself. Most of the major 3D apps are running on older kernels and it is time for a complete rewrite. For example, the MAX kernel has been patched and updated since version 1.2 and it is still the same kernel used in MAX 7.x. But rumor has it that MAX is getting a new kernel for v8, which is not all that far away from release (judging by other version release dates). Also, with Discreet going away and Autodesk "reclaiming" MAX, it sort of makes you wonder what they have up their sleeves. I've heard rumors, but shall not share them here ;) .

That's a old rumor that has existed since v4. I wouldn't give my hopes up.

[Slurry]

I'm sorry Srek - I simply did not follow your last post. You are telling me I am wrong but not why.

I agree. A $5000 product is certainly harder to sell than $2000. But is MUCH EASIER to sell than a $20,000 product.
Are you telling me that making the product more affordable to average consumers and hobbyists (which are being churned out of schools by the thousands - an industry more lucrative than the CG industry they are being trained for) will not increase the marketplace for potential sales?

How do you think Kinetix took such a large piece of the market a decade ago? They had a competitive product (3DS Max) that was selling for thousands of dollars less than the other 3D apps and was geared towards windows users (the largest home computer market). That drove the price down of the specialised apps coming from SoftImage, Alias, etc. who eventually ported their apps over from SGI workstations to Windows and Mac based pc's to compete in the broader and more lucrative market.

Statement A: Reducing the cost of an item makes it more affordable to more people.

If you concede that the above statement is true:

Statement B: Making it more affordable to more people increases your 'potential' sales marketplace.

I'm not saying that this is a sure-fire unflappable formula for success. But you are kidding yourself, not me, if you think the software companies (or any company) don't try to predict this stuff using similar strategies. It's basic business. It doesn't always work, but you have to have an idea of what your demand is so you can properly evaluate the supply and it's worth.

There are more and more independant artists (like myself) who can't afford $7-10 grand for a piece of software but can possibly afford $2000. Desktop filmmaking is on the rise. More and more large companies with the large bankrolls are developing there own proprietary software.
I am speculating that the software companies need to diversify their marketplace in order to stay competitive.

When you dispute my argument in your next post - please go into as much detail as you have time for so I can fully understand your side of the debate. :thumbsup:

Thanks!

Art

[Srek]

What i meant is that the mechanism of reducing price to increase sales is not realy predictable let alone reliable in such a small market.
By making your product cheaper you adress not only more but also different users then before. Mostly you will get users with less experience in the field that need more support and most likely even a change of development goals to adress the new needs these customers have, thereby increasing your over all workload.
This diversification comes at a higher price then many expect.
Cheers
Björn

[Slurry]

I agree completely. Of course, when I purchased Maya, if I wanted support, I had to pay extra for that service.
There are also different levels of service and support, each tier costing more than the one before it.
So, those kinds of things can be compensated for above and beyond the price of each unit. Separate costs for separate services. Of course, these aspects of a business model go well beyond the scope of my rudimentary example.

Thanks for the idea exchange! :)

Art

[mustique]

Today the market is small, but it can grow the faster and easier you'll be able to skin, rig, animate and render. Maybe one day 3D apps will be among the toolset of every digital artist together with Photoshop, Flash etc...

So 3d developers look like they're in a phase where they will try to extend their userbase
for whatever price it takes. Kind of investing in the future that is.

[private]

I'm always a bit alarmed when I read about things getting better when something gets cheaper. If a product is - for example - a run-of-a-mill pair of jeans with a label that makes it more expensive, I understand. But not in a case where dozens of creative people have contributed - and continue to contribute. I wouldn't call a 3000$ price for a complicated software especially much. Wouldn't have bought any if I did.

Alarmed? What about software? It gets better every year and has come down in price a lot. How much was Maya/XSI/Lightwave a few years ago? Price does not equal quality.

Many 3D companies have to become more efficient.

[private]

What i meant is that the mechanism of reducing price to increase sales is not realy predictable let alone reliable in such a small market.
By making your product cheaper you adress not only more but also different users then before. Mostly you will get users with less experience in the field that need more support and most likely even a change of development goals to adress the new needs these customers have, thereby increasing your over all workload.
This diversification comes at a higher price then many expect.
Cheers
Björn

Economies of scale. It is predictable. 3D is no different.

[ThirdEye]

Economies of scale. It is predictable. 3D is no different.

Sometimes people just want to think it's predictable. Look at how many companies go down these days.

[lovisx]

there is also the factor of foreign markets. I'm sure lowering prices would also be a move to create a greater user base in the East.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if Alias lowered the price of Maya Complete a little more but kept unlimited at the same price. Then there's a good software for hobbyists, and a much more robust package for studios.

[ThE_JacO]

not saying that it couldn't happen (the maya superslash in prices), but I believe you're reading a bit too much into these news right now.

Soft slashed XSI's prices and introduced a cheap version for a very simple reason... the userbase was seriously stagnating, they got to the point where they have a very solid product and the hype in the right places, all they needed and wanted to do was drag users from other platforms to try XSI, also in the hope these users will later on upgrade to bigger version, AND to generate a userbase for large studios to fish from (one of the main probems with a large XSI pipeline isn't the tool, it is that it's REALLY hard to find good technical talent, trust me on this, I live it everyday).

The philosophy was "better have their 500$ and a potential upgrade then not having them at all".

maya however already has a huge market penetration and a hype aura around it, Alias doesn't really face the "it's too expensive it's too new" issues anymore.
Alias problem is that it sold too many complete licenses and not as many unlimited, this last license also generates a lot more cash flow with its MNT costs.

what they are trying to do is to get those people who are stuck on old and minor versions, that otherwise would NEVER move on, to subscribe to higher MNT costs and to give them a little bit more cash right away.

I think there's a distinction to be made between what Soft did and what Alias is doing and what problems and markets they are facing with this.

The future, even the immediate one, could actually turn out to be more price wars, and these could turn out dangerous soon. We're already borderlining the situation Jeremy described, but this one particular piece of news I think is being blown out of proportions.

[shingo]

Wrong. XSI is the youngest.

Of the major apps (3dsmax, Lightwave, Maya and Softimage) Maya is actually the youngest.

[JDex]

Yeah Mummey... XSI is the youngest... it is a new core, not based upon SI|3D.

[mummey]

Anyone else feel like telling me I'm wrong? :D

[ThirdEye]

Anyone else feel like telling me I'm wrong? :D

dunno what you're talking about but yes, me :p

[prajna]

Anyone else feel like telling me I'm wrong? :D

Sorry, Mummey, but the XSI core is the youngest on the block. But your posts are always well-intentioned, even if you don't always get it right. :)

[mummey]

Sorry, Mummey, but the XSI core is the youngest on the block. But your posts are always well-intentioned, even if you don't always get it right. :)

Thank you, Next time I'll try harder to get my facts straight first. ;)

[Kabab]

You guys need to take one step back and remember other industries which use 3D exist other then film and games.

Alias own the film market and are getting a good grip on the games industry its all about the verticles now.

[martinw]

Anyone else feel like telling me I'm wrong? :D

Well I'm not going to tell you you're right, but you may not be wrong. I would guess the architectures of XSI and Maya have very similar ages. You have to remember the start goes back to when the initial design was done and the package conceived, not when V1.0 was shipped. Those with long enough memories will recall that both XSI and Maya had, shall we say, very lengthy pregnancies?

Hmm, conceived, pregnancies, I don't think I'll push that analogy any further...

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