The Woman in a red skirt - WIP

[shyamshriram]

Nice one mate :)
my suggestion is...try to add some feminine attitude....i mean u could change her pose...lil bit..right now shes looking lil bit stiff..too straight, but i like ur colour pallete...good ! keep it up.. !

[Katea]

Thank you shyamshriram :) I really appreciate your comment :)

Now I have hanged a few things in my drawing. First of all I changed her pose, like shyamshriram suggested. She is less stiff I guess. But I don't want her to look as if she has been posing for hours or waiting for a picture to be taken. I want her to look as if she was caught red handed but she tries to keep a straight face and on the other hand doesn't bother - she knows it's no secret she does stuff like that.

I changed her face a bit. It seemed to cartoonish and not female enouhg one so I moved the lips and the nose down a little. Also her hands finally look good. In fact I like the left one holding a ciggar a lot ;) And I changed the right hand as well. Now you can see that she touches the pile of paper with the whole surface of her palm. Also the papers look different. There are no folders in-between, but I decided that the papers will look as if she has been bringing them to the desk in different periods of time. They are a bit disorganised.
And I also have moved her left leg more to the left and put the feet more to the back.

Hoping to hear more from you guys ;)

PS. Could someone tell me why I can't put an image here like I did before? :?

[Solothores]

if the pic hosting url contains question marks [img] won't work on this board :)

cheers
Solo

[Katea]

if the pic hosting url contains question marks [img] won't work on this board :)

cheers
Solo

Thank you but, I have a problem when I press the thumbnail of an image.. Nothing happens :/

[Katea]

Any other comments perhaps guys? ;)

[RhysyngSun]

I like the drawing so far! I like your lighting and the sense of fabric that I get from her clothes, very well done!

As far as crits there are a few things that bother me a little. The first would be the proportion of the head seems a bit off. This is the hardest thing to get down for figures and here I think that the head is a little on the small side for the size of the body overall. The only other thing would be that the knee on the left is pointing more or less towards the viewer whereas her boot is perpendicular. That would be an uncomfortable pose to be in, but I think you could easily fix it.

Of course changes are up to you but in my experience you can only make a drawing by making revisions like those. Plus, you have the added benefit of being able to save multiple files and not risking ruining what you've already done! :D

Good luck, and I'll be sure to keep an eye on this thread!

[Katea]

This is the hardest thing to get down for figures and here I think that the head is a little on the small side for the size of the body

I know :) I have that problem too... I'm not sure if this head is too small, but I've been changing it a lot so I might have messed sth up. Or maybe the hair is too close to the head? Hmmm...

The only other thing would be that the knee on the left is pointing more or less towards the viewer whereas her boot is perpendicular. That would be an uncomfortable pose to be in, but I think you could easily fix it.

I think you are right, the knee should be more twisted to her right. Thanks! :)

[RhysyngSun]

Generally, most people's bodies are approximately 7 head heights tall and the halfway point being about the height of the pubic bone. It's difficult to measure on the monitor, but yours looks to be about 8 head heights high, which means you probably only need to slightly adjust the head.

If you have any questions feel free to ask, I just finished up a semester of figure drawing so this is all pretty fresh in my mind and I'm sure there are plenty of people here with even more experience than me.

[ajay1589]

from the large hands, to the large thighs, to the large feet this woman has very masculine qualities

[yulias]

just a few suggestions: bring her knees together, and put her pen hand on her hip. the like should be bent on that side. you know, the pose women do when they wear those sorts of skirts. they are tight, its uncomfortible to do the pose that you are suggesting. make the breasts smaller or she will have severe back problems in the future. also, to give her a really sexy look, make her lips pouty, and maybe turn her head a bit to the viewer. either do the sideways glance (would work very nicely) or a straight on look.

just my ideas for this piece. good luck and dont give up. great colours

[Katea]

Generally, most people's bodies are approximately 7 head heights tall and the halfway point being about the height of the pubic bone. It's difficult to measure on the monitor, but yours looks to be about 8 head heights high, which means you probably only need to slightly adjust the head.

You're right! It is 8 head high. To b frank, I only know how to draw 8 head-high bodies ;)

ajay1589, yulias - ok, I think I need to explain a couple of things :)

This girl is not exactly a small, tiny little girl who looks at man asking for help. Oh no... She is a tough woman. She is sexy, yes - thats the most important thing in this game, but she also is kind of bossy. She is strong. She doesn't look for men to help her. She comes up to their desks with piles of paper, puts it there and just asks: "you'll help, me won't you?". The man cant say no to a lady with her looks. ;)

As you noticed the pose is not gentle. I mean yulias suggested a new pose. But as I have said before - she is not posing for a picture. If she was, she'd probably stand like this and look innocently sexy. But here - she's just been caught red handed.

And one more thing. I don't think if you noticed... Her pose is specific. Have you ever seen socialistic propaganda posters from Russia (or Poland where I come from)? They did look like this. Big - manly women, doing all kinds of men-jobs? ;) Well This is a nowadays version of such women. Back then they would be marching, holding flags on different occasions, dressed in black short skirts, white blouses and most importantly red ties. The colours here are a bit different, but the tie remained red ;) I guess you could take it as a joke. A women wanting to do mens' jobs in the past- would still want to do the career nowadays, but with little effort of her own :)

NOW, the new version changed a little bit. I also tried to make her head bigger just as The Spook suggested. I also added some tekstures just to see how it will come out later on - they're laid quite carelessly, I will change it later on. Oh, she is missing a shadow, so it may seem a bit od, as if she wasn't standing on the ground.

Thank you all for suggestions. Feel free to comment :)

[beelow]

The hand that is on the stack of paper seems to be slightly larger than the other hand. she seems a little stiff still. Just keep working at it you will get together, Great work! Keep going! I will drop by later...holla!:thumbsup:

[Noiram]

I like the colours and pose. I think you captured that dominating woman well. A couple suggestions the hand on the stack of papers might look more relace placed ontop of it and second the bright white of the papers grab to much attention from the rest of the piece.

[Loulu79]

You need to work on the head/torso/hip/leg...they don't seem to be in harmony with each other. The hip needs to be broader to compensate on her thick torso. The chest area seems confusing. Her head is a bit small for her whole body. The thighs need more muscle to carry her weight and height. And the boots look great...but have so much more potential for being in alignment with this standing pose. The loose hand needs to be more relaxed for that pose...whereas the hand resting on the papers appear bigger than the other. Of course there is such a thing (one hand slightly bigger than the other)...but it's a slight thing.

Keep working on it! It's evolving nicely.:thumbsup:

Edit: I see what's confusing me with the chest area: the wrinkled area on the chest does not seem workable. Probably you need reference for this...

[Katea]

Hey guys, thank you for commenting :)

Now I don't really know how I am going to decide whether to make the girl more or less musculine ;) But I've changed a couple of things, and I will change other later since I don't have so much time to work on this piece now. As you can see the girl is no more blond as well. I'm kind of getting tired of this picture, because I'm not too patient and not used to working on one picture for hours, changing it over and over again. I had to do sth about it, so I just made her hair match the skirt and the tie. Also The boot are a lot detailed now, and I like them a lot :)

What worries me a lot is that her legs look quite flat. I don't know why. I think they have enough of shade but somehow they seem unrealistic (or maybe I'm just tired)

Here is the picture and two closups o the face and boots :)

http://img48.echo.cx/img48/3497/szkice318vg.th.jpg (http://img48.echo.cx/my.php?image=szkice318vg.jpg)

http://img48.echo.cx/img48/3538/closeup320tg.th.jpg (http://img48.echo.cx/my.php?image=closeup320tg.jpg)

http://img99.echo.cx/img99/3552/closeup313og.th.jpg (http://img99.echo.cx/my.php?image=closeup313og.jpg)

[Katea]

What do you know, she wears panty hoes ;) And she's got more hair as well :)

http://img100.echo.cx/img100/4927/szkice314mw.jpg

http://img228.echo.cx/img228/9207/closeup331xz.jpg

[Loulu79]

Yes, it's coming along nicely, but that long neck of hers bothers me...I think it's that muscle area...the one facing us (sternocleidomastoid) is okay but...overall her neck looks hallow at the center. I going to show you what I mean:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Loulu79/1moreneckstudycopy.jpg


And her left hand facing the floor is not naturally loose...even though she's holding a pen. I say it needs to be more relaxed. The detail on her face is great...but the jaw area...is not accurate to me...the chin is slightly out of alignment with the rest of her face. And I think there needs more jawbone area...the area that's close to the ear. some

The boots are great...I love her stockings (somehow it's giving more volume to the legs...)

[beelow]

Looking better just keep at it. I would like to see this finished...Holla!:scream:

[Katea]

Loulu, you're absolutely right! I've been changing the neck so many times I just lost the natural look of it - it does look holow - but that can be changed :)

And the hand was supposed to be stretched not relaxed. She was supposed to hold it a bit like dancers do.I don't know if I can describe it properly. And she is holding a ciggar. But the hand doesn't look good - yes - it's neither stretched nor loose. I have to change it,

The detail on her face is great...but the jaw area...is not accurate to me...the chin is slightly out of alignment with the rest of her face. And I think there needs more jawbone area...the area that's close to the ea

You see I tend to make the jaw and chin area too big.
Like here (those are traditional drawings):

http://img258.echo.cx/img258/2473/guineverebykatea6qv.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=guineverebykatea6qv.jpg)

http://img258.echo.cx/img258/6360/anomalisabykatea6kp.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=anomalisabykatea6kp.jpg)


I was trying to avoid it drawing this girl. I think I just did it too much :/

I would like to see this finished...Holla!

Me too ;))))

[Noiram]

the right leg seems to be curving out where it enters the boot this could be one of the reason the legs are flattening also the boot tops themself do what is not expected from a perspective point of view(what I expect since the boot tops are below the horisons the elipse should be going the other way and not nearly so pronounced), is this the style of the boot doing that?

stiil your work is looking great.

[Katea]

Well yes, I'm affraid it's the style of the boots. They are supposed to go higher in the front of a leg. I will really have to think of something in order to correct this effect. Thanks for showing that to me.

[Loulu79]

"She was supposed to hold it a bit like dancers do..."
Whoa...I am a dancer...well...I was a dancer for 15 years...and as an experienced one...you have to have your hands relaxed...but poised. A balance of both, Katea. Oh...if only I could take pictures of my hands...because I see what you're trying to do here...
http://portfolio.kevinthom.com/albums/artistic/hands_compel.sized.jpg

Are these the hands you're trying to grasp for her?
And those other picts of yours have so much more freedom. Experimenting on something different can be a pain...and pleasure on the journey. My suggestion to you is to get refs on differents head shapes. For example...when I draw faces from the top of my head...I always go after the oval shaped ones...that's what I have and that's what I'm familiar with. But other types of heads are triangle, heart, round and oval...I think your character has um...an oval face...

Btw: It wasn't a pen? A cigar?!? (lol) Whoops...my bad:D

[beelow]

Tryto pose in a mirror youself with the same clothes on. That should help you out visually, or if you have a digital camera, try taking some references of some friends or random poeple, I hope these tips are of use to you if any...holla. Can't wait to see some progress, I'm rooting for ya'!:thumbsup:

[ajay1589]

i think the closeup of her face looks beautiful...dont give up on this one!

nice boots too

[Katea]

Thanks! Although it's really hard to continue this one for me somehow ;)

[Enayla]

Pssst. Don't give up on this one. I think it could turn out very beautifully.

I pulled it into photoshop and did some minor colour and contrast adjustments that, I think, changed the picture in a big way - I think part of the problem here is that you're a little too afraid to use contrast.

I'm not sure what program you're using, but if it's photoshop – use Levels and darken the shadows and the midtones considerably, while you brighten the highlights a little. I think it did wonders for the piece. I also went into color balance and pulled a lot of cyan into her midtones. It's a very good thing to use a lot of colours like you have - but I often like to pull it all together by using one tone that sort of seeps through all the rest. I really like what you have so far – she's got a very sassy look in her eyes.

If you'd like, I'd be happy to do a paintover for her face, and show where the weak points are. She has a beautiful face but her chin is a little undeveloped and the features are just a wee bit skewed. I do this all the time, too – you can sometimes spot it by flipping the image horizontally quite often while painting. Opens your eyes to mistakes.

Just don't give up on it. It's a lovely picture, it just needs a bit more work – you're almost there!

[pushav]

This looks great so far. Please do not give up on it.:bounce:

[Katea]

Linda - thank you for commenting and giving me so much advice. I will follow it as soon as I can :) My PS won't open for some reason so I can't try it right away :/ I guess I'll have to fix my computer first because there is sth wrong with it...

It really means a lot to me that you like this one - thanks for the support :)))

I also have to say - you are the first person to discover my weakness ;DDD I'm so aware of the fact I have trouble with contrast! I always have to fight with it. My pictures are always very light and faded , I really have to try hard to make them look better ;) No matter how much I try... I pick contrasted colours and tones thinking: "This time I won't make this mistake" and I always fail ;) Somehow I get scared in the middle of painting and try to tone the contrast down (unnecesserily as it turns out)...

Linda:"If you'd like, I'd be happy to do a paintover for her face, and show where the weak points are. She has a beautiful face but her chin is a little undeveloped and the features are just a wee bit skewed. I do this all the time, too – you can sometimes spot it by flipping the image horizontally quite often while painting. Opens your eyes to mistakes."

Looking at your pintings or sketches I can't believe that you do such mistakes ;)
I will be more then then happy if you could do a paintover of the girls face to show me what I do wrong!!! :)))))

pushav- :))) :bounce:

[Katea]

I'm back! ;)

I did some repaints of the face. Hopefully you'll like this face better. I also changed the left hand. Thanks Loulu for the refereence pics both for the hands and the neck :)
I've also played with the levels a bit Like linda suggested - it gave the picture a bit more contrast.

Oh, I almost forgot - I gave up the separate strands of curly hair. I like it much better now :)

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/7969/szkice32cg8sg.jpg
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/6968/szkice32small0dg.jpg

[Enayla]

http://www.furiae.com/images/katea.jpg

All right :]

I really like the improvements you have made so far. See? You made the right decision in not letting the painting go.

I think now that you've come so far, one of the problems with the picture is the skin tone choice. I like that the shadows and highlights aren't of the same quality at all, but using sort of yellowish highlights on a more orange-red based shadow is always a problem. It tends to make the skin look a little too uniform and tanned – the orangey skin of someone who uses fake tan or spends too much time in a cheap solarium, hehe. This is a very common mistake and something I used to make, myself, though my mistake was to only pick cool colours for the skin, making it seem constantly drained out.

Try to pull in some cool highlights instead. You can keep the shadows warm – in fact, make them warmer still, but pull some cyan and blue into the highlights. When I repainted the face, I used some colours I picked from the background as highlights, but also dragged in a bit of turquoise (which is, like, my answer to everything, ha ha). It's strange, but sometimes pulling some warmth out of the skin in a painting somehow emphasises the life of the skin. I think that's really the biggest issue here.

I also think that the face in particular could use some more 'imaginative' shadowing. Instead of shadowing everywhere where there is a 'dip' (below cheekbones, side of nose, eyelids, etc), try to highlights in some places where the angles of the faces meet. I'm not sure how to describe how to do this, but it tends to make the skin look a little smoother and alive all at once. Take the area around the lips for instance, right where there is a crease if you smile, close to the nose. Instead of just shading this area, try to highlight it – it'll pick out the faint shadow below the cheek and give a hint of glossiness to the face (not as if smeared with Vaseline, but the kind of shine that a face has, naturally, if not powdered with makeup one moment ago).

In the repaint, I tried to pull out highlights instead of just shading. I have a feeling that you are only thinking of the bone structure in terms of 'valley = dark', 'hill = light' and in a face, in particular, it isn't quite that easy.

The lips, I feel you've spread the highlights out a little too much. I couldn't figure out what was wrong until I did the lips with just a few glossy highlights, it gives them a little sexier look.

As far as the features go, I love her nose – keep that arrogant angle (which I unfortunately didn't in the overpaint), but try to do something about the bone structure of the chin. She will look stronger and more confident with more of a chin. The teeth, being underneath the shadow of the lips, shouldn't be quite so white. Try to darken them towards whatever shadow colour you're using, and then make sure that something of their shape shows through. Push her bottom lip out just a little (perhaps not as much as I did, but at least a wee bit, otherwise it looks like she might have an overbite).

You've really come a long way and I can see you improving throughout this piece. The face is beautiful as it is, and you really don't have to change all the stuff I've suggested – they're just little things that I think could make a difference. I re-painted the face entirely, not because I disliked how your face looked, but because I wanted to start over and get a feel for what colours I'd have used. My face turned out looking a little too 'regular', I suppose, but I was just trying stuff out.

I hope it's been of some help. It's difficult finding the words to describe what might be changed. I lost a bit of the arrogant tilt of her head, I'm sorry about that.

Good luck – and I'm really looking forward to seeing your next update.

[edit]Wow, sorry, I just have to say - I scrolled back to the older version of your face - you've improved it hugely from the previous post to the last one. Wonderful!

[kira-hime]

Oh, you lucky devil, getting a big long critique from Linda! :D

[Katea]

Kira - hime - I am a lucky girl :)

Linda - Thanks so so much! :) The face you pained is gorgeous! And you painted it in what? An hour or less... amazing! Me? It took me over 3 hours to do my repainting :/ Although I have to say it was a lot of fun :)

So here I go. These are my painting steps.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2519/szkice32all5tv.th.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/my.php?image=szkice32all5tv.jpg)

The first frame is obviously the previous face with a terrible tan :) What I did first was correcting the shades and highlights. For this I only used the colours I already had. Then I started adding some warm colours (reds and oranges) to the shadowed areas. It was much easier for me to accept this move then to start with the turquoise for highlights ;) So I took a brush with a fairly small opacity and started adding some warmth to the shaded areas. I also took care of the lips and erased the lip-gloss-look - yes, that's what it was supposed to be ;) I had to fight my instinct that always forces me to give lips too much shade (I mean the details). Actually the lip-gloss look was to be a remedy for this, oh well...Oh, I also changed the teeth! When I finished the teeth I reapainted the left eye. I had already applied some highlight under the eyebrow but I thought it would help if I made the eyelid a bit smaller. I also repainted the eyebrow and made it lighter, corrected the nostril and pushed the hairline a bit higher.

Then it was the time for the turquoise highlights. Oh my, was I scared ;) I picked the colour you suggested on your painting (too scared to pick sth on my own and perhaps do sth wrong ;) and started painting over highlights. The first opacity I chose was too big so I started to make it smaller until I ended up with a 1% opacity. Even though it was so small I could see the difference almost instantly. Boy, was I unhappy ;) I thought that they looked terrible - so dirty. But I decided to trust you, no matter what, I closed my eyes (though not literally) and went on. :D My mood brightened up when I started mixing the new highlights with the rest of the tones. Suddenly the face started looking really good :) I picked some of the new highlights colour then picked a lighter one and tadam! - there was the second stage :)

Next stages are actually minor to the first one ;) I realised that the eye looked too narrow so I repainted it (stage 3) I also added some more highlights to her hair and made her right eye more visible. Stage 4 shows that I changed the eye and made it bigger, because the previous changes made it quite small. I also made the eyebrow thicker, and added some blush to her nose . Oh, one important thing. I painted over the chin highlight. After staring at your pic I realised what makes your chin look so good. In my pic the chin was just too flat. I also added some blue colour to her neck and some highlight comming from the jewel in the earring. :)

In the last stage I only painted her eyelashes and made the lips more vivid. I also took some blues from the background like you suggested and with a 1% opacity touched the face here and there :)

I have to say - this is the best face I've ever painted colourwise :))) I always thought that my faces were so cartoonish because I couldn't get the proportions right. When I drew sketches they looked quite realistic, but after scanning them and painting over they turned out to be very unnatural. I thought it was my fault, maybe I wasn't careful, painted sth over or just changed the proportions in between, But now I can see the same face (well almost the same) with new colours and I can see how much better it looks, amazing!

I'm actually kind of affraid I'm not gonna be able to do this next time, on my own ,cause let's face it I was under a big influence of your painting :)

Just the last comaprison:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6171/twocmparison32dg.jpg

[Enayla]

I'm so happy I've been able to help :] Colours make SUCH a difference, don't they? Skin tones are by far more complicated than most people give them credit for. It's not a matter of just picking a colour and shading it - you have to learn how these things work, and there's no way to do that except through practising.

I know what you mean about being nervous to try on a new thing. The first time I jumped into using colours that aren't immediately obvious for skin tones, I was terrified. The good thing with painting on the computer is that even if you mess up, though, you can still keep the original version.

I think I wouldn't progress at all if I couldn't save any given picture in five different versions along the way :D

Anyway, I have no further crits at this point. Just keep doing what you're doing, it's looking great.

[umbrellasky]

Katea: Beautiful! Her face looks wonderful. I love following other peoples WIP's there is allways something new to learn.

Great work! Can't wait to see the finished result.

[Katea]

Linda - thanks again :) I myself also love the fact that I can save the painting along the way. Although I always start saving the file when I'm starting to like it, so I usually miss the early stages of the painting ;)

Madelaine - Thanks :) This time it was me who learned a lot from Linda. Now I have to do the rest. :) Also I hope that in a new drawing with new lights and colours I will be able to do so well on my own. My other wips show I have a tendency to create faces with an extrimely fake tan ;) Like here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=249425&page=2) - this is a wip of two drawings ( I'm not too patient ;) )

I hope you guys will drop by from time to time to see how I'm doing. :) Cheers!

[Katea]

Hey guys! I just wanted to let you know I have finished my work finally! This it what it looks like :)

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/1839/finished5ff.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

You can also see it in my portfolio or here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=337307)

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