Gimp 2.3 Development series

[HapZungLam]

looks like "no one" is interested on any gimp news. wahaha

[plastic]

because it sucks...and i'm not expecting photoshop. paint shop pro in 1993 was nicer than the gimp.

[toonman]

I am. I started using it a quite ago, and although I wouldn't use it in production, I feel it's slowly moving in the right direction. Worth keeping an eye on it.

[kursad_pileksuz]

i hope windows version of 2.3 will be out soon. gimp is quite sophisticated application if you know how to use it.

point of gimp is quite simple, it is opensource and free (gnu licence) , if you do not like something about it you can be part of developement and make it better, so next generations can enjoy free and opensource full featured software.

[DigitalNeutrinos]

i hope windows cersion of 2.3 will be out soon. gimp is quite sophisticated application if you know how to use it

Agreed , Dont be a Gimp hater,
and BTW all you Gimp bashers its FREE!

[plastic]

yeah it's free...but does that mean it has the right to suck without me bashing it? no.
i can name 2 nice free image editors...artrage and paint.NET
there are probably many others too.
i use a lot of great open source software. but i wont kiss anyones asses just because something is free. if everyone does that they will never move on to fix the UI and general quirkness.
there was an interesting gimp mod that made it look like photoshop, but unfortunately it worked with OSX only so i had no chance trying it.
don't bash me for bashing gimp.
ok, enough bashing for now. forgive me, i'm drunk and only half serious.

[kursad_pileksuz]

i am shocked to hear that you compare artrage to gimp, art rage can beat even photoshop when it comes to limited natural media. on the otherhand artrage is not opensource, it is only free software and you cannot do complicated image manipualtion as in gimp.

paint.net?
" It started development at Washington State University as an undergraduate senior design project mentored by Microsoft"

i do not think you have understood mission of gimp, which is ok.

free opensource software does not only mean free software.it is a community project if you care.

you do not need to kiss asses of anyone because they give you something free, you are absolutely right.

[endseason]

i feel gimp pretty interesting, it looks having some interesting features, what dissappointed me deeply was not beeing able to make my wacom work fine (and this killed my interest in it :))

btw i think gimp is enought powerful to be used in a lot of fields... hope it will grow up nicely.

[KayosIII]

Well the new version sucks slightly less :) a lot less actually.... I am not sure of the Wacom Support in the Win32 version but on my Debian Box it works with my tablet. (getting the tablet to work on my debian box is another story). The tablet support *feels* a lot smoother in this release. Could do with some kind of natural media though. But I have a shiny copy of Painter for that and mypaint looks fairly cute :) ...

Look I know that the Gimp is no Photoshop killer. That wasn't the point of my post. It is a heads up for those currently using the program and getting frustrated with the UI to look for a copy of the latest developer version as the improvements are worth it.

[MagnetMan]

Gimp needs CMYK. This should be near the top of the 'todo' list for the upcoming version 2.4.

I'm a huge open-source advocate. I run linux exclusively and rely on 100% open source projects for any work (design, programming, etc) I produce. The one vexing thing about many linux graphic solutions is the lack of native CMYK output (CMYK-TIFFs, CMYK-JPEGs, or other). Since this is a format suitable for printing, I believe this is one reason gimp and other open source projects aren't taken seriously by the printing community.

Now I know that CMYK output is supported in a plugin (using the littlecms library), but this step is far too complicated for many who just want to save, modify and view a CMYK graphic.

Scribus, which is an open source desktop publishing project, supports CMYK natively. I prefer not to use it, due to its sluggish performance on my machine, and other than laying out text, it does not seem proficient at more artistic projects requiring raster manipulation or vector images with a large number of splines.

Please correct me if I'm wrong about something/anything/everything, I don't want to spread false information.

I'll continue to use GIMP, Inkscape, etc. But for the print community to take these projects seriously, fundamental support for CMYK is a necessity.

Improving gimp's popularity, is another thing altogether...

[kursad_pileksuz]

one reason i cannot use gimp on linux is that i could nto make my wacom work under mandrake :( wacom support is Zero under linux, and i wasted couple of days for trying to install wacom under mandrake. But i find wacom sensitivity ok under windows, it would have been improved , it just feels little different than photoshop for example


Btw Kayos, are you going to compile Ribbit for latest version of wings?

[MagnetMan]

Gimp needs CMYK. This should be near the top of the 'todo' list for the upcoming version 2.4.

I'm a huge open-source advocate. I run linux exclusively and rely on 100% open source projects for any work (design, programming, etc) I produce. The one vexing thing about many linux graphic solutions is the lack of native CMYK output (CMYK-TIFFs, CMYK-JPEGs, or other). Since this is a format suitable for printing, I believe this is one reason gimp and other open source projects aren't taken seriously by the printing community.

Now I know that CMYK output is supported in a plugin (using the littlecms library), but this step is far too complicated for many who just want to save, modify and view a CMYK graphic.

Scribus, which is an open source desktop publishing project, supports CMYK natively. I prefer not to use it, due to its sluggish performance on my machine, and other than laying out text, it does not seem proficient at more artistic projects requiring raster manipulation or vector images with a large number of splines.

Please correct me if I'm wrong about something/anything/everything, I don't want to spread false information.

I'll continue to use GIMP, Inkscape, etc. But for the print community to take these projects seriously, fundamental support for CMYK is a necessity.

Improving gimp's popularity, is another thing altogether...

[KayosIII]

one reason i cannot use gimp on linux is that i could nto make my wacom work under mandrake :( wacom support is Zero under linux, and i wasted couple of days for trying to install wacom under mandrake. But i find wacom sensitivity ok under windows, it would have been improved , it just feels little different than photoshop for example

Yeah Wacom is difficult to set up under Linux... I don't know of any distro that supports it out of the box since mandrake 8.x (or was it 9.x).... You need the files from http://linuxwacom.sf.net and the source code for the kernel you are using. The instructions are on the linuxwacom website but if you get stuck give me a private message - I will walk you through the process.


Btw Kayos, are you going to compile Ribbit for latest version of wings?


Ribbit needs a major refactor which is why I have put it off for so long. I might not have a job after next week so I will definately have more time on my hands :) I want to take another crack at getting Tablet support into SDL first though

[Refuznik]

I could nto make my wacom work under mandrake Strange, I never had problem with different wacon tablets under redhat and mdk (sorry I didn't test under ubuntu or debian).

http://www.wacom.com/productsupport/linux.cfm

graphic solutions is the lack of native CMYK output
Argh, ask to adobe why ?

[KayosIII]

Strange, I never had problem with different wacon tablets under redhat and mdk (sorry I didn't test under ubuntu or debian).

Were you using it with pressure and tilt? If so this is good news. Which versions of RH and Mandrake are you using


Argh, ask to adobe why ?
Colour model support is one of the biggest limitations currently of the gimp. It along with greater than 8 bit per channel images, adjustment layers & vector shapes have all been scheduled for inclusion in a major rewrite of the core engine. This was supposed to happen after the 2.2 release but it looks as if the developers want to add bit more UI polish and stuff like colour management in first

[Refuznik]

Which version
With my little graphire2 and my intuos 2 (A4)?

[KayosIII]

No which versions of Redhat and Mandrake.... also out of the box or using the linuxwacom packages?

[Refuznik]

Look my first post.


No which versions of Redhat and Mandrake
Lol sorry, Redhat 9, mdk 9.1 and mdk 10.1.
I advise you to use the kernel containing 6.9 version.

[KayosIII]

Slightly off topic but there is a tablet configuration panel in KDE cvs.... I haven't tried it but it should make it easier to tweek wacom settings :)

[kursad_pileksuz]

you are right , wacom setup was quite hard, the guy who wrote the wacom support for linux, prepared a good step by step tutorial shows intallation, but i got lost somewhere during install and i could not make it work after that:(

i guess if you are a linux user for long time it is possible to make wacom work, but for newbies it can be real hard


i just think that with existence of gimp, wings3d and blender and some other vidoe editing softwares it is pretty much possible to create highend digital content under linux




Yeah Wacom is difficult to set up under Linux... I don't know of any distro that supports it out of the box since mandrake 8.x (or was it 9.x).... You need the files from http://linuxwacom.sf.net and the source code for the kernel you are using. The instructions are on the linuxwacom website but if you get stuck give me a private message - I will walk you through the process.



Ribbit needs a major refactor which is why I have put it off for so long. I might not have a job after next week so I will definately have more time on my hands :) I want to take another crack at getting Tablet support into SDL first though

[KayosIII]

Hello looks like mandrake should support Wacom out of the box.... Maybe this link will help

http://mandrivausers.org/lofiversion/index.php/t18800.html

[kursad_pileksuz]

thnx Kayos , i will look into one more time, but last time i tried i wasted straight 3-4 days on forums and during installation, this time i will wait until new mandrake comes out to be honest.

how does wacom feel under wings3d compared to wings under windows? under windows wings is quite sketchy when it comes to wacom, and i loose special key bindings of wacom pen frequently, and under wings wacom mouse mode(that is the onyl way to use wacom in wings3d) gets sloppy sometimes.




Hello looks like mandrake should support Wacom out of the box.... Maybe this link will help

http://mandrivausers.org/lofiversion/index.php/t18800.html

[BigJay]

There IS a photoshop skinned version of Gimp. I have it installed now. You sould look at the site you found the OSX version. there was a link in there somewhere to another site for the PC version.

[Bellorum]

There IS a photoshop skinned version of Gimp. I have it installed now. You sould look at the site you found the OSX version. there was a link in there somewhere to another site for the PC version.
http://blog.yumdap.net/archives/20-GIMPshop-for-Windows.html

[Blikkie]

Actually I used the windows skin, but I found a look-alike photoshop interface more confusing than a new and completely alien interface. The fact that the skinned version started chrashing even before I was done playing with it didn't help either, so it was one quick move to the trashbin.

There are some things in the gimp that I actually like, even in the tablet using department, I like how I can use the pressure sensitivity can be used to change size, hardness, opacity and color in the brush window.

I hate the fact that this program causes taskbar clutter and that I can't rotate the canvas like in painter (space+alt is a lifesaver).

[ben_o]

Just like to say that Ubuntu has pretty good tablet support, just install the package wacom, and you're all set.

However, it's the configuration that is still poor on any distro.... I had to add settings to my xorg.conf just to confine the stylus to one screen. It should be something that can be altered *while* running a graphical server...

And about the GIMP... it doesn't suck on Linux but it does on Windows. At least it doesn't use the unholy SafeCast *spits and crosses self* like the CS products ;)

[KayosIII]

Good to know - I am thinking of migrating to kubuntu once a few compatibility issues are sorted out :)

There are a few options for configuring the wacom tablet on the run. I know that there is a KDE module in CVS I hope it gets released for 3.5... More immediately there is a command line tool and a graphical tool in the linuxwacom bundle. details are at http://linuxwacom.sf.net...

[ben_o]

Forgot to mention, using a mouse AND a tablet, can cause troubles with ubuntu... The mouse config in xorg defaults to '/dev/mice/input', and to get the right action for the tablet, this needs to be changed to point to '/dev/input/eventX' (X=0,1,2...) of the single device.



Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Configured Mouse"
Driver "mouse"
Option "CorePointer"
Option "Device" "/dev/input/mouse0"
Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2"
Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true"
Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Driver "wacom"
Identifier "stylus"
Option "Device" "/dev/input/event3" # USB ONLY
.....
EndSection

The best guide to tweaking your tablet is here:

http://www.linux.com/howtos/Wacom-Tablet-HOWTO.shtml

[Samo]

Thanks Kayus, but I just installed The Gimp 2.2 after a more than a year using 2.0.
I will rather wait until a more stable release. Thanks anyway.

[KayosIII]

event3 might not be the correct device depending on what you have in the system. For me event0 is the keyboard, event1 is my mouse and event2 is my tablet. You can find out which event device is your wacom tablet by using the wacdump utility.

Open up a terminal and type wacdump /dev/input/event0 have a look at output (ctrl + c) to cancel. Look at event1 and so on until you find the event device that ID's itself as a wacom tablet. Use this device instead of /dev/input/event3 (unless it is /dev/input/event3)... This will get your tablet working but there is still a problem Changing hardware on your system could very easily change the order of event devices.

Fortuneatly there is a fix... You can add a rule to udev to make a link to the correct event device as say /dev/input/tablet automatically. If anybody is interested I will continue

[Manwich]

I can proudly say that i am a GIMP user. I cant afford the advanced photoshop but GIMP
is free and still allows me to use some of the features.
However i cant stand using the GIMP interface its quite hit'n'miss with all the floating palettes when i minimise and maximise i have to do it to each palette seperately.

Hopefully in later versions they'll make it more like anyother image app: all palettes under one roof and hotkeys for displaying/hiding palettes.

Still good tho for FREE!

Manwich

P.S i'm pretty interested in SCRIPT-FU, pretty good for creating re-usability for buttons and stuff.

[KayosIII]

Full screen - F11 (brings the dockers along for the ride but still very cool.)

The big change I was explaining before is you can now have it so the dockers automatically hide themselves when a no gimp window is chosen leaving only the images visible and in the taskbar. Selecting an Image window makes the toolbar and docks visible and at the top of the screen. If you have used graphics apps on a Mac this approach will seam familiar.

[R10k]

When Gimp no longer has anything to do with GTK, I'll use it.

[86point5]

When Gimp no longer has anything to do with GTK, I'll use it.

You mean, when GIMP stops using the GIMP Toolkit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gtk)?

Not seeing that as too likely.

[KayosIII]

Why so much dislike of GTK? Are you a Windows or Linux user? I haven't used a GTK application on Windows in a long time but on Linux I can't find to much to complain about.

Cinepaint (formerly known as FilmGIMP) is currently been rewritten to remove all traces of GTK code. They are using FLTK as a replacement. The project is codenamed glasgow but I don't think you can do anything useful with it yet.

Also a lot of work has been done in the past 2 releases of the gimp to separate the underlying functionality from the UI. The plan at this point though is to keep the UI and do a redesign of the core functionality to allow the additions of printing and higher definition colour spaces, effects layers, shape layers... This could evolve to the point where multiple front end programs share the same graphics engine. This is already happening with two of the most popular spreadsheet programs is the OSS world.

[mummey]

This release although not recommended for production use has some improvements which are just too good to ignore.

Toolbar and docks can now be made to be "transient to active display" which basically means that clicking on an image window now brings the toolbox and docks to the top. Just like photoshop on the Mac. This setting is still not the default you will need to go into the preferences dialog and navigate to the window management section. Tick the box that says "Toolbox and other docks are transient"... You can also set the hints to Utility Window as well.

Also the Tablet handling feels much better in this release....

Theres a complete list at developer.gimp.org in the News section

I am not sure if there are any binaries available at the moment.

One thing that cripples Gimp is the number of software patents Adobe has on Photoshop. For instance, I think the feature you mention was the reason Adobe once sued Macromedia for patent infringement. I could be wrong and in Macromedia's case it doesn't matter anyways since Adobe now owns them. :shrug:

[R10k]

GTK may have been developed for Gimp, but it's poorly designed (the Gimp implimentation of it at least), and should be completely redesigned... or gotten rid of. I know a lot of people are used to it, but as far as interfaces go, I'm not a big fan of it.

[kursad_pileksuz]

to be honest gtk`s file management system is way more senseful than explorer`s and photoshop`s.

[durbdk]

Well, this is good news! I do use Gimp in a produciton environment, and it works just brilliantly. Sure it takes a little getting use to, but so does all software, the power of Gimp more than makes up for this learing curve. My employer is small and wanted to add visualization to their advertisement toolkit, my boss knowing I do 3d and such asked me to put together a proposal for a low cost pipeline; he was happy when I showed him one for free. With open source you can lose some efficency I think, at least that's my biggest problem under Gimp, but for companies unable or unwilling to spend thousands for commercial software, the GNU soltions work great. I do have a Gimp wishlist though:

1: More "logical" layout, it can be irritating having 5 windows open at once.
2: I would love to see a Gimp version of extract
3: More stability
4: More efficency/speed

Gimp is great for what it is, and I will surely keep using it.

[KayosIII]

GTK may have been developed for Gimp, but it's poorly designed (the Gimp implimentation of it at least), and should be completely redesigned... or gotten rid of. I know a lot of people are used to it, but as far as interfaces go, I'm not a big fan of it.

Again are you on Linux or Windows or Mac? Could you give some specific examples of what sucks? Are you talking from a programmers perspective or from a users perspective? Have you tried Inkscape - http://www.inkscape.org ? does it suck in the same way? My understanding is that GTK is quite a low level graphics toolkit and very flexible in the way that applications can be created. I personally prefer other toolkits but GTK is not too bad from my point of veiw and I would like to clarify what you mean.

[KayosIII]

I do have a Gimp wishlist though:

1: More "logical" layout, it can be irritating having 5 windows open at once.
2: I would love to see a Gimp version of extract
3: More stability
4: More efficency/speed

Gimp is great for what it is, and I will surely keep using it.

1: I am down to three ( see http://www.midcoast.com.au/~rgcoy/gsc.jpg ). There has been talk of eliminating the dialogue boxes for tools like crop and resize and either adding the functionality to the to the status bar or the tool options.
2: What does extract do?
3: Are you on Win32 or Linux.... I can't remember the GIMP crashing on me in the last few years - ( I do have a pretty bad memory so I could have happened)
4: Yeah you can never have enough of that

[kursad_pileksuz]

is there a windows compiled version of 2.3? the links on gimp.org do not have new version :(

[KayosIII]

Did a general web search but I am not comming up with anything. Will post again if I do stumble across anything though...

Mummey... Are you sure about the patent thingy... Most of the Mac programs I have used work this way (Painter & Expression immediately spring to mind).

OT I really hope the patent system gets a peer review process or something.

[mummey]

Did a general web search but I am not comming up with anything. Will post again if I do stumble across anything though...

Mummey... Are you sure about the patent thingy... Most of the Mac programs I have used work this way (Painter & Expression immediately spring to mind).

OT I really hope the patent system gets a peer review process or something.

Its only a guess from your description. I might check though to see what patents Adobe has on file for Photoshop though.

[Wickster]

I think gimp is a good program, its not as good as photoshop but I would suggest it to people who ccan't afford photoshop or anything else for that matter. I would rather have my friends use Gimp rather than pirate photoshop.

By the way there is Gimp hack that makes it a "little" like photoshop in terms of menu arrange ments. It's called "GimpShop," try it out and see what you think of the hack.

GimpShop 0.1Beta for Windows (http://blog.yumdap.net/archives/20-GIMPshop-for-Windows.html)

GimpShop 0.2b for Mac (http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/17629)

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