View Full Version : Young Female Head Model - Please Assist
05-26-2005, 10:22 PM
Producing a model of somebody who really exists is the hardest thing I've found in CG.
My subject is that of Mary Badham, and the reference pictures I was able to find (front/side) weren't the absolute best.
The left reference image is not too bad, but over exposed so I'm not quite sure on some of the details.
The front reference image is skewed - Her face is slanted down and to the right a bit
As for the topology at zero-level, I think I'm okay for the most part:
My main thing now and what I'd ask from you guys is what you see on my model that needs tweaking for it to look more like her. I've run into a wall on what I can do.
I'll adjust from the left view, then try my best to make it jive with the front view reference image, which then makes things 'off' when looking at it from the left.
Any comments are appreciated.
05-27-2005, 01:36 PM
My suggestion is to fully reshape the area of the model around the eyes from the front, to make it fully match your front reference, then you should reshape it from the side by pushing the the ends of the eye area (the most away from the nose) a bit backwards.
Good start! :thumbsup:
and Good luck!
05-28-2005, 05:59 AM
i think its a very nice start. Try some hair and advanced-skin-shader tests :D
keep on it
05-28-2005, 03:27 PM
nice work. the main things i see is the nose, lips and jaw. need to see your update smooth version to comment on the nose. you could work on her lips sides ( making those lindentation)
the bottom lip should end before the sides, just by pulling the vertexes. her jaw in the pic looks more sharp and her chin more round. i would also change a bit the topology, runing with quads, and making the edge that runs from the top outside nostril to the chin. could paint it for you if you like. this is a method i'm using but i'm not sure it's a must in order to get good deformaion results. keep it up :thumbsup:
05-28-2005, 06:14 PM
I will tweak today. I'll try and work with the jaw and chin especially.
Can you explain what you mean by pulling the verts of the lower lip? Which way?
My topology copies that of the film's main robot character from I, Robot exactly. If I run into problems later on with deformation I'll try some different methods.
05-28-2005, 06:44 PM
i mean lose the hard edge near the sides of the mouth and play with the vertexes to form it better. don't know how to explain. if you won't manage you can send me an obj file and i'll try to demonstrate on one side (not that i'm an expert, just was dealing with that with some models).
05-29-2005, 02:10 AM
I think maybe there is not much more modelling that can be done at this point (?)
How much detail comes out in the texture? Would that bring this thing to life because I still don't think it looks THAT much like her.
General Question: Though I'd be using the SSS skin shader, do I still paint bump map and specular maps or should that be procedural as well?
I am losing momentum!
05-29-2005, 02:57 AM
Looks pretty solid to me. For such a straight forward model, the texture is going to make or break this one.:thumbsup:
Keep it up!
I don't like to crit faces >_< Hehe you doing better than I can crit so just keep goin. Some various things in the last update imo really pushed things up in the accuracy stakes, It's hard for me to pin down what and why though. The subject isn't familiar to me, but that front portrait ref has a nice pose and expression to try and recreate maybe, it would be a cool "character" shot, and you could show off how good you did in comparison hmm? ;)
Keep it up :D
05-29-2005, 07:42 AM
sure you can do it with textures. one of the most amazing images was done mainly with textures http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=219323. max kor's mesh is very low as you can see in the second page. i'm still ignorant in texturing so can't give any advise. good luck :)
05-29-2005, 03:27 PM
Too bad there are no color reference pictures of her at that age :[
Guess I'll have to wing it.
What maps is the norm to make?
There are about 40 slots in the SSS shader rollout in max, but I'm assuming the main ones that need maps are Diffuse, Bump, Specular, and maybe Glossiness? Any more than that?
05-29-2005, 04:24 PM
Oh and also:
Is Texporter the best thing to use to get the best 'canvas' to paint the textures on?
06-01-2005, 05:12 PM
Update (I ended up using texporter)
06-02-2005, 12:27 AM
Here are the maps I've made (The real ones are obviously much much bigger)
Are these the big 3 needed? What other maps would be important to use? The SSS skin shader rollout has lots of slots for things...
06-02-2005, 03:08 AM
at full res here is a section of the main map:
It is around near the corner of the eye. The full map is about 2600 x 2000 pixels... is this about right or is that too small?
Also, an issue I am seeing is that the bump setting that looks good from farther away is entirely too rough when the camera is very close to the face... How does one factor this into their map making?
06-02-2005, 03:14 AM
I like it, nice concept to go by, and It is turning out pretty good. :thumbsup:
Theta; I'm not entirely familiar with how they work, but I think that you can use multiple UV channels to put your bump map at a different scale, without having to redo your mapping and such. Basically juggle mapping and photoshoppery to bring down the scale of the stipple effect is the best I can suggest :/ Far as I know a 1:1 ratio sized map is also more commonplace, but that might not really matter in this case, games and things get bitchy about it though. 2k pixels sounds like a pretty decent resolution for a facemap to me, pretty big in fact hehe, so I guess it's large enough.
I'd play with the mottling in the bump and maybe try and add a little more randomness to the arrangement of the dots?
06-02-2005, 03:27 AM
Rescaling the bump to be larger would bring it out of synch with the spec and color map...
I think I'm about right with the size of the skin cells... but perhaps the secret is using displacement instead of bump mapping..? hmmm My computer might explode if I try this
I really wish somebody'd come in here who is SSS-Shader savvy :shrug:
I don't want to push forward with these texture maps if they're not the right way to do it.
Damn. Good point. Hrm. One thing that worked for me on similar surfaces so far is using either a cloud (filter > render > clouds) based mask thing, or erase soft patches of the bump or spec (to taste) so that they stay in synch as you mentioned, but have a little less uniformness to them. It seems to me if an advanced shader is put to use or not, a good diffuse is pretty necessary, so I would keep playing with it.
Don't be discouraged, I'm avoiding all this myself atm, so I know it seems like a bitch >_< Hehe reason shall prevail, eventually.
06-02-2005, 07:37 AM
I realize that you're done modeling, but I'd like to point out that your side reference isn't quite a perfect profile view. The face is rotated ever so slightly toward us. And the front reference obviously isn't a perfect head-on view. It's rotated a bit to the side, and I think it's rotated down a bit more than the side reference, which may account for some of your difficulties matching the model to both reference pictures.
Oops, sorry. I should have read through the entire initial post. I see you were fully aware of those issues.
06-02-2005, 08:01 AM
ahha :] yeah
It's tough because there really aren't many pictures of her at all. I'm pretty sure I have just about every single one ever to appear on the internet (about 12 clear photos), and none of them are really perfect for reference.
if i was REALLY hardcore I'd try and get screencaptures from the movie she was in
but ehh.... it looks fairly close as it is
I can still tweak it more as I see fit..
06-02-2005, 08:01 AM
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