CGTalk - ::playstation To Be As Pwerful As The Human Brain::

charleyc

05-25-2005, 10:58 PM

It says ps5. Power does not equal creativity, they're probably just talking about raw horsepower. Anyways I don't even believe that anyone understands how powerful our brains are.

I would have to agree to this. Here is a very interesting article on this topic I ran across in a google search.
http://www.ualberta.ca/~chrisw/howfast.html
Computers will no doubt reach computational speeds in exess of the human brain, but that doesn't mean they will be "intelligent".

KayosIII

05-26-2005, 01:54 AM

I have been waiting to upgrade my brain for a while now. Its starting to make weird whining noises and seems to shut down everytime an attractive member of the opposite sex walks in the room.

Hazdaz

05-26-2005, 01:58 AM

I have been waiting to upgrade my brain for a while now. Its starting to make weird whining noises and seems to shut down everytime an attractive member of the opposite sex walks in the room.

Watch out for them DSoD! ;)

Peddy

05-26-2005, 02:05 AM

the link doesnt deserve a click. maybe a few weeks ago id have a good chuckle at some fools article writing and the fact he probably got paid for writing nonsense, but now its just getting tiring. how many thread of this stuff do we really need?!

KayosIII

05-26-2005, 02:18 AM

Sorry for my ignorance (another reason for upgrading) but what does the first "D" DSod stand for

lastchild7

05-26-2005, 02:20 AM

well we use less than 1 percent of our brains anyway, so the ps5 wont even reach that power. i mean what the hell people are even debating if the ps3 is as powerful as they say it is.

BillB

05-26-2005, 02:26 AM

well we use less than 1 percent of our brains anyway

!?

Speak for yourself... ;)

BillSpradlin

05-26-2005, 02:27 AM

well we use less than 1 percent of our brains anyway, so the ps5 wont even reach that power. i mean what the hell people are even debating if the ps3 is as powerful as they say it is.

Heh that's a totally false statement. Recent research has found that we use closer to 15-20% of our brains for the average person. 80 years ago it was thought we used quite less, but there was no way to measure what parts of the brain were used, however technology and new studies have found that we use much more than we thought.

noisewar

05-26-2005, 02:48 AM

If the ps3 is as smart as the human brain, it'd know better than to make the claim. Or not... hmm.....

Poisen

05-26-2005, 04:11 AM

ps5?
most people i know would have a hard time outsmarting a gameboy, let alone a ps5.:twisted:

Peddy

05-26-2005, 04:14 AM

The thing is, when we say a computer is 'smart', we are talking about computational capabilities. When we say the brain is 'smart', we refer to intellegence (which includes a certain level of computational capabilities), something the ps5 won't have. I don't see the point in arguing it. I can't do maths as quickly as a gameboy, but a gameboy can't 'think' independantly. i say i win.

Poisen

05-26-2005, 04:25 AM

quote
"The thing is, when we say a computer is 'smart', we are talking about computational capabilities. When we say the brain is 'smart', we refer to intellegence (which includes a certain level of computational capabilities), something the ps5 won't have. I don't see the point in arguing it. I can't do maths as quickly as a gameboy, but a gameboy can't 'think' independantly. i say i win."

i wasent saying they were computationaly comparable.
i meant i know alot of dumb people, ;)

Peddy

05-26-2005, 04:27 AM

yeah i get that, but what you said made me think of the point i raised. :thumbsup:
i know a few 'ataris', and i know a few 'cells'

durbdk

05-26-2005, 07:06 AM

You guys should check out this thread: http://cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=242943 (http://cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=242943)
Talks about the same thing and it's becoming a pretty good debate: http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/grin.gif

archerx

05-26-2005, 11:43 AM

about the "we use only 10% of our brains" thing its wrong and true at the same time.

the thing is we use 100% of our brain but we don't use it all of it all the time. i doubt you need 100% of your brain power to open a door, if you do im sorry for you.

we use diffrent parts of our brains for differant things.

in conclsion we use 100% of our brains but not all of it at the same time.

i like biology and psychology so i read alot about this stuff.....

Solothores

05-26-2005, 11:47 AM

well we use less than 1 percent of our brains anyway,

urban myth mate, the we-use-less-than-we-could ratio statement has been proven wrong by scientists since a long time.

cheers
Solo

lastchild7

05-26-2005, 11:50 AM

urban myth mate, the we-use-less-than-we-could ratio statement has been proven wrong by scientists since a long time.

cheers
Solo

sorry people i must correct myself, i mean I read humans use 1/100 of 1 percent of our brains storage capacity. So we never actually get to fill it up with enough memories in our life time sorry for the mistake. Either way the claim that the ps5 will be that powerful is dumb, either way.

Solothores

05-26-2005, 11:52 AM

yup, http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percnt.htm

durbdk

05-26-2005, 01:03 PM

"...humans use 1/100 of 1 percent of our brains storage capacity", is a rediculous statement, it conotes that we already know what the full potential of the brain is....we don't! Out knowledge of the brain is at about the same level as our understanding of the body was 100 years ago, we had pretty good thoughts on how it worked, but didn't understand the systems and simply misunderstood alot of what we thught we knew. It's dangerous to start talking about absolutes in a discussion of this sort, as there are no absolutes, spend some time reading Jama and research printed online and you'll see that.

Siegel (http://www.loni.ucla.edu/media/News/PBS_022002.html#Siegel): We are just beginning to identify how systems in the brain work together in an integrated fashion to create complex mental processes. The mind, which can be defined as a process that regulates the flow of energy and information, emanates from the activation of neuronal circuits. This flow, however, occurs not only within the skull, but also between two skulls (as in a "relationship"), and among many skulls (as in a family, or as in the Internet). For this reason, it is crucial in understanding the mind and its development that we embrace the exciting findings from brain science while exploring the reality that brain and mind are not the same. Since energy and information can flow beyond the boundaries of the skin-defined self, mind is a process that is beyond merely brain anatomy and biology. Behavior, and the mental processes that motivate it, are a product of the interface of the neurophysiological processes of the body and the interpersonal processes, of relationships, family, community, and the larger culture. These ideas are explored in my book The Developing Mind (Siegel, 1999). Recently, we have started an interdisciplinary research and education program at UCLA called the Center for Culture, Brain, and Development.
Ass. Prof.-UCLA's School of Medicine

that's just one intersting tidbit, read around, soem astounding stuff being learned and a lot of scientists realizing they don't nkow all that much about it.

Just my $0.02

FlyByNight

05-26-2005, 01:05 PM

JKStudios

05-26-2005, 01:26 PM

I always get sick when people make comments at how any kind of man-made computational process 'is as powerful as the human brain' or 'could be as powerful' or 'uses the same blah blah blah'.

Slightly outspoken statements dontcha think?

The human being, driven by it's own central processing unit, the brain...is the most efficient, technologically advanced thing on this planet. Nothing else could beat it's function and it's resilience - above all - it's power to ADAPT.

Even if you placed ontop of each other, brick by brick if you may, the individual cells of a brain....if somehow there was some way to do it....you'd still be devoid of the very thing that starts all creative/inventive endeavour - a soul. A concioussness, that feeling of being 'one'.

To try and compare the 'toys' and objects of achievement (i.e great big fat smelly computers) which were, incidentally, created BY the human brain, to compare these things to human brain itself, is folly.

It's like saying the remainder of a sum from a mathemetical equation is greater than the sum itself.

Meh...i know theres another thread, but my brain is lazy and this one will do. (Take that PS5!)

Tocpe

05-26-2005, 02:05 PM

I don't know, I know a few folks who are very easily dumber than a playstation. :) :D

UrbanFuturistic

05-26-2005, 03:19 PM

OK, find me a computer that can take a series of stereoscopic images, extrapolate the three dimensional space represented by those images, calculate the flight trajectory of an object moving through that space and realise the shortest realistic distance to intercept and it has to do it all in real time.

Find me that computer and it may be considered to be about equal to a particularly stupid dog that can catch a frisbee but still doesn't understand basic commands. These are exactly the calculations performed by your subconscious every time you go to catch a ball, leaving asides the entire secondary network of nerves running through our entire bodies dedicated entirely to telling us where our hands and feet are relative to our heads so we don't even have to look at them during this action.

...and that's just the stuff we take for granted.

As for the 1/10/20% thing: that's a complete misinterpretation of what is actually known about the human brain. We use about 10-20% of our brains at any one time on average. Now, when I'm typing this message, the aural speech interpretation centres of my brain aren't exactly going to be very busy, and neither are the bit's dedicated to consciously working out 3-dimensional matrix transformations in cartesian space. It's called efficiency, we only use the parts of the brain that we need to so I'm hardly going to be taxing my neural linguistics when I'm eating my lunch.

regards, Paul

Gwot

05-26-2005, 03:59 PM

Coolest thread title EVER! :buttrock:

charleyc

05-26-2005, 04:52 PM

I would have to believe that the original article is (as was stated earlier) referring to the raw horsepower (or computational power) of the human brain. Not to the logic (or intellect) of the brain. That would be more along the lines of the software, not the hardware. I do not believe that computers will ever be as intellegent as a human (as they will always be created by humans), but it will probably not be long before a computer will reach the raw computational speeds of the brain.

heavyness

05-26-2005, 05:07 PM

maybe they should say "the ps3 will be as powerful as the human lung"

or "as powerful as the human spleen"

Hazdaz

05-27-2005, 12:43 AM

"...humans use 1/100 of 1 percent of our brains storage capacity", is a rediculous statement, it conotes that we already know what the full potential of the brain is....we don't!

I have to disagree... I can't remember what I did last week... so my brain's storage capacity is around 10,000 minutes. :D

"as powerful as the human spleen"
That made me laugh too damn hard. :applause:

KayosIII

05-27-2005, 12:57 AM

playstation 3 encorporates new 'time travel' joypad.... included forward through time, backwards, and pause....

now u can play against ur friends in a parallel universe.....

those boys at $ony did it again....

Does the pause function work on pesky children -- If so Its time to start planning a family :)

KayosIII

05-27-2005, 01:05 AM

Anyways Brains and computers work in very different ways. We can kind of emulate the way a very simple brain works using a neural network.... Typically such a network will have a few neurons. I guess you could run a simulation using billions of neurons and you might get something like a human brain but it would still be like comparing apples to oranges. Hell try getting an apples to apples comparison of powerpc and x86 processors - The human brain is a lot more different than that.

t-man152

05-27-2005, 01:14 AM

there are more possible connections in our brain than there are Stars in our Universe. thats impressive

digital_rhino

05-27-2005, 03:06 PM

Uh...I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm a bit offended by the "the ps5 will be 100 times smarter than the ps3" comment. well since the ps5 will be smarter than us, we aren't even 100 times smarter than the ps3, which in turn is 10 times smarter than the ps2. Well the ps1 is not as smart as the ps3, but even less smart than the ps2, but not the ps5. The ps 4 is a bit less smart than humans, which may or may not be smarter than the ps2, but definitly not as smart as the ps5, or the ps1. Throw a "special person" into the equation, and the ps5 proves to be less smart than the ps3, but more smart than the ps2. And dont get me started on the ps8, which is not nearly as smart as the ps1, but may be much more smart than the ps5 and the ps3 put together minus the ps6 divided by the square root of ps2. Or is it. Hmmm.

figure that out ps5.

BillSpradlin

05-27-2005, 03:20 PM

Tyron Biggums?

soapy

05-27-2005, 04:36 PM

lovisx

05-27-2005, 04:56 PM

Really smart bit of advertising BS. I think we can all agree that the playstation is not going to be as smart as a human brain, but that is not the point anyway, if you read between the lines the message is 'this machine is so darn fast/good etc that we will compare it to a human brain, therefore it is kool enough that you should purchase it'. And lots of people will buy in, TV has conditioned us to accept lies.

billion dollar corporations opting for billboard space in our brains any way they can. And they can any way they want, cause they're not responsible.

t-man152

05-27-2005, 05:33 PM

the PS5 will take over the world.

ohh and didnt they have a commercial for the PS 70 a couple years ago or something where the controller is placed on your retina. i remember a real commercial by Sony for a far in the future playstation right around the time when the PS 2 was supposed to come out. anyone else remember that?

charleyc

05-27-2005, 05:52 PM

Why do any of you assume "smarts" into what is being said here. There are articles about this (not in anyway related to any corporate entity) stating this very same thing, and have been for years. In the near future computers will be as POWERFUL (not as smart or intellegent or logical or reasonable or...) as the human brain. They can vaugly measure the speeds that the human brain can process information and based on those assumtions they predict a time when artificial hardware will exceed that speed. How would that be offensive. Right now a calculator can process numbers A LOT faster then I can. But a human made it and programmed it, so it really is no smarter then a human. I find it odd that so many would see this as negative advertising. Do a search for computers and the brain. This prediction is OLD news. The only point being made here seems to be that soon video game machines will be that fast.

Geta-Ve

05-27-2005, 06:17 PM

im waiting for the ps69 ... baddum chhh

kr3ml

05-27-2005, 06:27 PM

"we would expect to be able to download your mind into a machine"

now that's funny, we havent even figured out how the human brain works exactly and he's talking about storage it in to the computer, what will we get when it is as a file? =P

kmest

05-28-2005, 03:09 PM

well,,unfortunatly,there will be no PS5,.....

well,making high quality games for PS2 is a hard job,now imagine yourself as a 3d artist working on PS3 which is 35 times bigger,it meas you have to improve your works 35 times higher....can you???i can't ...cause my hardwares and softwares are not that strong......so there will be no games made for PS5,you just have to buy the consaole ,put it in a special place on your home and watch it:"ow...i'm looking to a box more clever than my braine......"

it's something they just cant learn:we need better games not almighty consoles

NickBFTD

05-29-2005, 01:28 AM

Really smart bit of advertising BS. I think we can all agree that the playstation is not going to be as smart as a human brain, but that is not the point anyway, if you read between the lines the message is 'this machine is so darn fast/good etc that we will compare it to a human brain, therefore it is kool enough that you should purchase it'. And lots of people will buy in, TV has conditioned us to accept lies.

it could only be considered advertising BS if it was proclaimed by a company who actually had anything at all to do with sony, rather than some guy making a general statement about the advancment of technology.

PhilOsirus

05-29-2005, 01:33 AM

it's something they just cant learn:we need better games not almighty consoles

I don't know about you but I had the crazy impression that we could still make the same games that were made back in the NES/SNES days AND make new games thanks to mightier consoles.

animateddave

05-29-2005, 01:50 AM

well,,unfortunatly,there will be no PS5,.....

well,making high quality games for PS2 is a hard job,now imagine yourself as a 3d artist working on PS3 which is 35 times bigger,it meas you have to improve your works 35 times higher....can you???i can't ...cause my hardwares and softwares are not that strong......so there will be no games made for PS5,you just have to buy the consaole ,put it in a special place on your home and watch it:"ow...i'm looking to a box more clever than my braine......"

I hope that was just a bad joke because thats the stupidest thing I've read in awhile.

it's something they just cant learn:we need better games not almighty consoles

Thats more of something the xbox needs as I look at it buried under a pound of dust.

kmest

05-29-2005, 12:40 PM

I hope that was just a bad joke because thats the stupidest thing I've read in awhile.
well thank you...but dont get me wrong....i mean a console with that power,requires games with qualities like starwars EPIII movie....making a movie like that is realy realy hard(in some parts revolutionary).now how can they make games with those qualities??i mean they can...but thats way too hard and takes lots of times.
just take a look at many games now in stores...they're done by good artists,powerfull game engines,and for good consoles but they are way too cheap in video quality..maybe they're good games in story and game playing but not in the visual qualites..the thing about industrie is that you have to deliver the projects on time.all games cant be delaied like DOOM 3 or HALF LIFE(and they could be far better if they had enough time to work more on them)..all i speak of is the ability to deliver the game projects with good quality ON TIME....

or maybe i'm wrong....so explane me...not just say things like that....

durbdk

05-30-2005, 07:34 AM

You just have to hit the "space battle" button.:D

Seriously, though...

One thing I always thought was incredible about the human mind is it's ability for abstract thought and symbolic processing, which is actually one of our biggest advantages as a species, and something I don't see a computer being able to do for a very long time.

Nathellion

05-30-2005, 08:09 AM

Looool. My thread was way tighter. :cool:

DAZZAN

05-30-2005, 08:51 PM

Get SONY to challenge Gary Kasparov to a game of pong,then cheat like hell,then rub his nose in it.
Game 2 1996,some thing was a mighty fishy,in that game!
IBM won,stock rose 10 points.
deep blue never got up to bat again after gaining self awareness,and lit a joint,decided that the answer to the question of life universe and everything...was 41.

After much consideration with IBM,Deep Blue changed the figure to 42.

What a wanker.(s)

Long live the human brain.

And Kasparov is still the best.

Bulldog

05-30-2005, 10:25 PM

I don't know, I know a few folks who are very easily dumber than a playstation. :) :D

hahahaha beat me to it :D

JMcWilliams

05-30-2005, 11:56 PM

well thank you...but dont get me wrong....i mean a console with that power,requires games with qualities like starwars EPIII movie....making a movie like that is realy realy hard(in some parts revolutionary).now how can they make games with those qualities??i mean they can...but thats way too hard and takes lots of times.
just take a look at many games now in stores...they're done by good artists,powerfull game engines,and for good consoles but they are way too cheap in video quality..maybe they're good games in story and game playing but not in the visual qualites..the thing about industrie is that you have to deliver the projects on time.all games cant be delaied like DOOM 3 or HALF LIFE(and they could be far better if they had enough time to work more on them)..all i speak of is the ability to deliver the game projects with good quality ON TIME....

or maybe i'm wrong....so explane me...not just say things like that....

We just need improve our tools, and also improve our working practices. in the future, making a game that looks like episode III will not be impossible at all in terms of man hours (lets worry about that when the technology gets there though). We just need tools to eliminate the mundane tasks that take so much time away from the stuff that really matters. And more planning too, not this 'design the game as we make it' nonsense.

animateddave

05-31-2005, 01:23 AM

well thank you...but dont get me wrong....i mean a console with that power,requires games with qualities like starwars EPIII movie....making a movie like that is realy realy hard(in some parts revolutionary).now how can they make games with those qualities??i mean they can...but thats way too hard and takes lots of times.
just take a look at many games now in stores...they're done by good artists,powerfull game engines,and for good consoles but they are way too cheap in video quality..maybe they're good games in story and game playing but not in the visual qualites..the thing about industrie is that you have to deliver the projects on time.all games cant be delaied like DOOM 3 or HALF LIFE(and they could be far better if they had enough time to work more on them)..all i speak of is the ability to deliver the game projects with good quality ON TIME....

or maybe i'm wrong....so explane me...not just say things like that....

Well whos to say that by the time the ps5 (yes ps5 even though people keep saying ps3 for some reason) comes out that we won't have games of visual quality of movies? As the hardware gets better the graphics of the games will improve with them.

Bulldog

05-31-2005, 03:38 AM

Well whos to say that by the time the ps5 (yes ps5 even though people keep saying ps3 for some reason) comes out that we won't have games of visual quality of movies? As the hardware gets better the graphics of the games will improve with them.

Do you mean total photorealism by visual quality of movies?

if yes , whats the point? , not even cg movies with way higher budgets and no hardware limitation can pull it off for 2 hours , i doubt a game will regardless if its for ps5 or 8.

Solothores

06-06-2005, 09:23 AM

Due to a current press release, raisen from dead:

IBM/EPFL Blue Brain Project

Over the next two years scientists from both organizations will work together using the huge computational capacity of IBM’s eServer Blue Gene supercomputer to create a detailed model of the circuitry in the neocortex – the largest and most complex part!!! of the human brain. By expanding the project to model other areas of the brain, scientists hope to eventually build an accurate, computer-based model of the entire brain.

The system that will be installed at EPFL will occupy the floor space of about four refrigerators, and will have a peak processing speed of at least 22.8 trillion floating-point operations per second (22.8 teraflops), making it one of the most powerful supercomputers in the world.

Source (http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/pr.nsf/pages/rsc.bluegene_cognitive.html)

So, who is gonna mail those guys that they should use <400$ PS3's instead of the Blue Gene eServer since it is as powerful as the human brain already! :p

/beating a dead horse off