WIP Samurai Slash Animation

[Frogman]

Hmm..a lot going on here.

First off, can you fix the render so you have a 3 point light setup or overall illumination to see the animation better? The light seems to be strobing or.. I don't know.

Apart from the feet popping, try to get him into his first stance quicker... wait a beat and then let the slashing continue. Right now you have a pause in between each slash and it feels a bit floaty and slow. I think if you cut the time of your anticipation between each slash, the animation will feel better.

Try blocking out the timing in pose-to-pose with no interpolation. You'll be able to get a rough feel of the action then.

On a technical note, Can you constrain the left hand to the sword hilt? When he is swinging, its a bit floaty.

Hmm..this isn't my best critique ever but I really think you should take a step back before continuing. Block out the timing. Know what you want the beats to feel like. Watch some samurai movies or kendo fights :)

[gunslingerblack]

well, i dunno what samurai attacked in such a linear manner, but i would suggest first of all you actually look at someone swinging a real sword. (last samurai) next i suggest he keeps both hands on the sword unless he wants that arm to get cut off. third i suggest some lateral movement on his part to go with the sword strikes and avoid the retailiation from his imaginary attacker.

[Loulu79]

Your character has more potential for character animating as well. That will make him even more appealing. Because guess what....you're the umpteenth animator animating a samurai. Character with attitude of his own will make him stand out more....

Another thing too...that popped up feet...fix it fix it fix it! Everthing was great ... but I kept looking at the "bad" part. That's not good.

I don't think a samurai who is practising even...would pause like that, every time he slashes. A good samari also focus on the "enemy"...whether in practise or actual. Keep his head on the mark...instead of having him looking down at the ground.

Other than that...Keep it up:thumbsup:

[SolGoodGuy81]

Thanks all for the great comments. They will really come in handy as I look it over with this stuff in mind now. Timing is an issue I am trying to deal with it seems with alot of my work. My other stuff was way to fast, this is a bit slow. However, do you all think that the movements are quick enough, like the slashes and such and the time between them needs to be sped up? The comment about the guy having attitude and character is good too. I usually do try to makes characters with some sort of personality to them, but looking back here I can see he has none really. Honestly what I had in mind when I did this was possible animations that could be used for a game(where I REALLY want to be), but I will mess with this a bit more and just try to get the timing down, then I may rework it all to add character to him, cause Samurai is definatly a loose term here. Sounded better then saying guy with sword. Thanks again and keep it coming, I really appreciate it!

[Loulu79]

His timing is good...real good. Now how about this: every time he slashes give him more pressure in the air (isn't that sword heavy?). And before he attacks...a little longer for anticipation. That way, he thinks ahead...focuses on the enemy, before he stikes. Another thing too...that feet sliding makes sense but, he needs to move forward in order to have that slide (you know, the weight is supposed to be on front foot). And a little pressure in the floor to make it believable.

I don't see why a game character cannot have attitude. I say dare to be different :thumbsup: and still go after to what you want. Even Ed Harris says that....no space ships (everybody has that). I'd add attitude. Supposing you wind up in Final Fantasy. That game stands out a lot because their character has character. How about Star Wars. I think you'll do fine to try something new. They are looking for new artists after all.

[SolGoodGuy81]

LouLu79, I appreciate your comments, they are very insightful. I reworked a little bit of the pausing between slashes between the first and second one, I felt that was the worst in terms of pausing. The first one was intended to be a "Heavy Slash", so I don;t knwo that I woudl want to make it much quicker you know? Does it give that impression or no? If not and it's just slow, then I will definatly redo it.

Here is a reworked movie of the slashing attacks (http://www.mayamachine.com/CGTalkupload/Quickslash.mov). This one's only 3MB this time.

The foot thing I am working on, I looked at my file and scrubbed through repeatedly and it does not twitch or anything in the file, so it could be somethign else? I will look into more detail when I get the other issues worked out.

Loulu, you mentioned giving the sword more preasure in the air, could you explain what you mean? And adding preasure in the floor? I am a bit confused what you mean by those. Thanks alot all. I look forward to any comments.

[Loulu79]

Yes, a lot better than before! But golly it seems I'm the type that finds faults in anything! Because the other foot slides unnaturally. Why don't you do the action...mimick exactly the way your character is doing. If you want to really improve your animation...I say feel the weight!

And when I say "more pressure in the air"... I meant show how much skill it takes holding that sword. Imagine you holding that same sword your character has. Can you feel the weight on both of your hands? How heavy is it? Note well that those who practise this art...know very well there's skill in holding the sword. When you slash it in the air...don't you feel some sort of heaviness during and after slashing? Why don't you go online and see some trailers of samaris or warriors fighting with swords. The good ones. There's some sort of believability when fighting with their swords.

"Adding pressure to the floor" Ummm...:curious: Let's do that with more clarity...say you're pushing this huge box infront of you. When you push, guess what...your whole body "pushes". Notice when the feet slide as you push forward...you press your feet into the floor.

Oh good...that's the better definition of "adding pressure to the floor" - pressing your feet into the floor because of the existence of weight.

Oh I hope that helps because you're really getting somewhere.:)

[gunslingerblack]

ok, im gonna let u know all the times that he would be dead in this animation if he were actually fighting someone.

1)as soon as he moves his hand off of his sword in a big sweeping motion and steps into what looks like a horse stance. DEAD stabbed anywhere from the belly all the way up to his throat.

2) if the attacker doesn't take advantage of this huge opening in the beginning, then after his swings his sword and DROPS HIS HEAD. the whole back is open one easy sidestep (from the highly telegraphed lean back) DEAD.

3) when he recovers from his huge swing and leans wayyy back for another one armed swing, cut the left arm, belly and then the back of the head. DEAD.

4) the fourth strike is similar to a real samurai strike, but because of the telegraphing (from the giant lean back one armed strike) the defender can easily see thru the attack sidestep and chop any number of limbs including right thigh, right arm (as it swings) and the head. DEAD.

5)the last cut is ok but dont have him lean back before he moves forward, true samurai are always in balance and shouldn't have lost such control that they would have to move backwards to put enough weight on thier rear foot to step forward. this i can only say, just because he swung the sword, doesnt mean the opponent is dead, if you point your blade away from your opponent it is an opening. DEAD.

6) last one, when swinging the sword to get the blood off (thats why they do it incase u didn't know) keep the sword in front of the samurai, ready to defend just incase his opponent wasn't alone and infact rollin with a posse. if you swing the sword way up and behind your head your leaving yourself way open. DEAD due to posse ass kicking.

so what's my point? i think you might want to start over with a clear slate, this time, plan your animation out alittle more and do some research. he can have mad attitude but i would suggest starting with a battle sound routine, before you try to spruce it up. if you want i can get a model and put together and animation to help illustrate my points about the way a samurai should move. pm me or just reply in this thread if u like.

keep going

[SolGoodGuy81]

Thanks for all the comments and advice. I have not jumped ship here or anything, I am reworking my animation cause like Loulu had mentioned, there is no real attitude. When I looked back at my concept sketches and ideas for him I got some different ideas more like what I had in mind in the first place. SO, no update just yet, but I am working on this and hopefully by the end of today I should have a update if all goes well and I don't toss my computer out the window.:)

[Loulu79]

I know of a guy from a friend who actually tossed the computer and banged it into the wall in the labs at college...what... that would be ... 3 or 5 years ago I think! Be patient... I know how it is. I'm glad you're rethinking your methods...for as gunslingerblack suggested...your characater would be dead if acted the way he did as a samari. So do some review!:thumbsup:

[SolGoodGuy81]

OK, took a a day off then went back to the drawing board to see what I could do. This is more like the character I had in mind when I drew him up. The initial pose he is in is taken straight from my sketch book. It is not done, but please let me know what you think. Better, worse? What to change? All that golden info. Alright, here it is. BTW, I will put in some other simple guys to show the positions of the guys he is slashing in a bit, but first gotta get this part down. Thanks alot!


New Slash (http://mayamachine.com/CGTalkupload/cartwheel3.mov)

[gunslingerblack]

not bad man, it's coming along, try and work on your movement, make it more natural moving, flowing and graceful but at the same time "human"

keep up the good work.

[Loulu79]

Yeeaah! Much, much better man! Excellent! That's what I'm talking about! Now he's a better samauri!:applause: :applause: :applause:

This does remind me of the anime NinjaScroll...so this is good, good news.:thumbsup: Now, since he's so quick on his feet...make him also ... guard himself from the enemy that strikes at him...Hopefully I'm making myself clear but if I'm vague again:shrug: ...imagine your enemies surrounding you. What do you do? Aren't your feet shuffling, quick on the feet to make every move just in case one strikes? And having your alert eyes peeled by every move the enemy/enemies make?

The animation piece you just shared with us is good, but you didn't give any defense "mechanism". I see him striking and dodging from imaginative attacks....Which is good don't get me wrong...but I want to see more "human" side to him...the defensive side...you know...?:shrug:

Edit: I have to give you credit on this: Nice camera angle and good use of it!:thumbsup:

[SolGoodGuy81]

Thanks gunslinger, loulu. Your comments have been really helpful along the way. I see what you mean by adding some sort of defense. I will work that out somehow so it seems more human and realistic. I will also try to smooth some movements out that were a bit jerky. It's a busy weekend, but I will try and get something posted again by monday, I hope. Thanks all and if you got any other critiques or suggestions I am listening.

[SolGoodGuy81]

OK, needless to say it is a little later then last monday, I ran into some internet problems and was unable to get online. However, I did get a little bit done. Not as much as I like cause I am working on a modeling project at the same time now. I've been kinda slacking off for the past week, I plan to get back in gear the next couple days and get some stuff done though. At any rate, here is the updated file with dummies in as the attackers. I am still unsure about some of the timing and some of the moves still look slow in some spots, fast in others, so I have to find those and fix'em. Any comments and all are more then welcome.

Four Way Brawl (http://www.mayamachine.com/CGTalkupload/Brawl3.mov)

[gunslingerblack]

there are some interesting things going on in this animation. alot of possibility, just gotta tighten up the screws a bit. hmmm, im wondering if you could send me a copy of the maya scene, with all the animation so that i can show you what might work better by actually animating the scene differently? my email address is

gunslingerblack@comcast.net

i think that me reassembling your animation for visual reference would be much better than an actual critiquen on this one.

[Gir]

Great animation. But just so you know, Samurai's use their left hand as their main hand when fighting. The right hand is just there for support. And mostly they use both hands. Watch some samurai movies by Kurosawa and you'll see. Keep up the good work. I can see now that the character is more lika a ninja than a samurai.

[gunslingerblack]

gir im wondering if you were paying attention when you watched all those kurosawa movies. since in ancient japan a left handed samurai was unheard of. because of all the pomp and procedure, it was dishonorable to throw your opponent off with such a technique. swords were worn on the left hip, and drawn with the right hand. if drawing both swords, the right hand would draw the katana while the left hand drew the wakasashi. next time make an l shape with both your hands, the one that actually makes an L is your left XP. in the animation however he is using his left hand to use the katana, which is technically wrong, thanks for inadvertently bringing this point to my attention.

[pencilpusher]

Hello,

I am not going to disect all of your animation, but I will make a few comments that I think will help you in your process. Since you are working on a very in depth character (when I say in depth, I am refering to the different aspects of the samurai) I think you may want to look at more than just movies for reference. There are many books and other literature on samurai technique and thinking. Character study is one of the most important parts of the animation process. Look at the ways of the samurai; the thinking, the various techniques, beliefs, etc. Anything that deals with your character. Although this is an action based animation, you are still an actor. You should become your character (not saying study to be a samurai) and the believabilty of his actions will show in your work. I think you will be surprised in the reponses you will recieve once you apply this.

.....................speaking from experience................


Good Luck with your work and keep pushing yourself

[mberrynk]

pretty smooth, the only comment i'd have would be PUSH IT, push you jumps, slashes, all of it further

[SolGoodGuy81]

Thanks all for the coments, critiques, and insights. They are helpful and I take them into consideration always. As for the issue of using his left hand and all, I was aiming for the smaller sword(name?) to be his main weapon, and held upside down. There is no honor in the character for him to worry about, which is why I was working on him kicking below the belt before a stab. I will still be working on this animation to make it smoother and to push the poses as far as i can, but it will be coming slowly due to my job, things are shaking up a bit there so I don;t have as much time right now. But I will try to post whenever I make significant progress so don't count it off just yet... =) Alright, thanks again for all the comments, they are golden.

[_-_twiggy_-_]

luvin this man , really lookin forward to where u take all this :D!

Keep it up

Twiggy

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