MR : Maya DT3D Skin Shader

[MSB]

looks really nice
i'll try it and give u some feedback

[thematt]

great a Mental ray port...:)

I know somebody who's going to be happy.."cough".."Jackde..."cough" :)

cheers

[migusan76]

:) Thxs hope to get some feedback and see any results made with it. :D LOL thematt You know that is very weird were is *cough* *cough* "jackDeth".

[Dr. Ira Kane]

Thanks, I was waiting for this... :thumbsup:

[migusan76]

:) Dr. Ira Kane no Prob.

[rende]

Thanks! Can anyone get this to work with mental ray? (maya 6.5)

[Dr. Ira Kane]

It renders only with software renderer, mr doesn't work. I added those 2 lines to maya.rayrc as usual, then placed rest of the stuff where it should be and nothing, renders black, anyone knows whats wrong ?

[djx]

I only did the usual setup in the maya.rayrc

I did notice some problems with the shadows if the model was large. When the mesh was approx 180 units tall, then very strange shadow artifacts, but when I scaled it to be 2 units tall then eveything looked good.

Thanks for sharing so many great shaders Miguel.

Since this new skin shader gives us so much, maybe you could add even more controls to create uneven coloration, veining, freckles and goose-bumps. It sure makes those shader networks simpler.

[Osaires]

it works for me inn mental ray, just installed it the normal way.
But you need a light inn the sceen for it to render

djx: somone alredy made a lot of texture shaders to use for skin shading here is the link
http://www.sintesys.net/skinshaderweb/

This shader is so cool :) thanks

[Dr. Ira Kane]

Cool, I still didn't get it to work with mr, that's a pity, it looked promising.

[migusan76]

:) Hey Here is a small setup instructions just for those having prob's!

1. take the files from the "include" "lib" folders and place them in there proper place for ex. C:\Program Files\Alias\Maya6.0\mentalray\include\

2: Place the files in the "scripts""icons" folders to the proper folders in your local Maya directory. That would be where ever your local Maya user settings are kept in. They will be different on MAYA / OS version that you are running. Typically they are.

" Scripts " ~\Documents and Settings\"username"\My Documents\maya\scripts\
" Icons " ~\Documents and Settings\"username"\My Documents\maya\6.0\prefs\icons\

3. Now in the maya.rayrc file 2 lines needed to be added so mental ray knows the shader is there.
link "{MAYABASE}/lib/dt3d_DT3Dskin.{DSO}"
mi "{MAYABASE}/include/dt3d_DT3Dskin.mi"

[migusan76]

:) thxs djx, Osaires! djx I've thought about maybe later on adding some Procedural skin coloring to it along with alowing the user to still add there color map. But at the present My only concern is with the illumination model of skin. Skin you can just make yourself a nice fractel base skin texture and then bake that out of maya and then paint on top of that in photoshop. Plus the link that Osaires posted does have a very good tools for just that.

[Dr. Ira Kane]

I was hoping that I made a typo in rayrc file but unfortunatley no, I did it at the first time as you wrote above, Miguel, and it just renders black with MR :hmm:

[Ky2k]

Yeah very nice the shader works fine with mr!:bounce:

[MSB]

I was hoping that I made a typo in rayrc file but unfortunatley no, I did it at the first time as you wrote above, Miguel, and it just renders black with MR :hmm:

you have to do explict connection
connect the light message to meteral light


even if u set the mode to 0 or whatever i don't know why you should connect it manually.


hope that helps.

[migusan76]

Thxs Ky2k, Dr. Ira Kane I think it might be something with the light connection as MSB said, I haven't heard any one else complain about it not working.

[Dr. Ira Kane]

Nah I guess it was some gremlin sitting in my comp, I reinstalled it again and voila ! it works :D I have to either get some more sleep or get this damn gremlin... thanks for this great shader !

[migusan76]

:thumbsup: Good to hear its working for you, Yea better get that gremlin he can mess things up!

[sonn]

migusan:

Thanks for the shader! makes everything look better :)

but how do i add bump to the shader?(mentalRay) I've tried bumpcombiner and it gives me a weird "burned" result. I tried the same with a regular MR shader and everything is ok..

any ideas?

[migusan76]

Hey sonn I've also try bumpCombiner to try to give bump mapping. But Iam not quite sure how you do it from what I've read around you have to add another kind of node to get the effect. Sorry can't be of more help.

[Pulliam]

I'm kinda new at this, so please forgive me; but I'm getting the black screen with mental ray also. Does great with the Maya software, but not mental ray. I installed the plug-in and the maya software version before I noticed there was a mental ray version. I have both icons, scripts, etc. for both versions installed. Any thoughts would be great. Thanks!!!

[Fung]

HI!
Nice shader!
I did it as you wrote ,but I can't get it work with MR.(Maya 6.0)
Would you give me some advise for this problem.

[migusan76]

:) Hey good to see some people still use the shader. But maybe I should have wrote a doc for MR installing. I just assumed that most people that were messing with mental ray would know this info. But here is the install instructions again.

1. take the files from the "include" "lib" folders and place them in there proper place for ex. C:\Program Files\Alias\Maya6.0\mentalray\include\

2: Place the files in the "scripts""icons" folders to the proper folders in your local Maya directory. That would be where ever your local Maya user settings are kept in. They will be different on MAYA / OS version that you are running. Typically they are.

" Scripts " ~\Documents and Settings\"username"\My Documents\maya\scripts\
" Icons " ~\Documents and Settings\"username"\My Documents\maya\6.0\prefs\icons\

3. Now in the maya.rayrc file 2 lines needed to be added so mental ray knows the shader is there.
link "{MAYABASE}/lib/dt3d_DT3Dskin.{DSO}"
mi "{MAYABASE}/include/dt3d_DT3Dskin.mi"

Also if you are getting black when you render and you've done all this then try going to the attribute "mode" and change its number and render and see if that works.

[Pulliam]

Forgive me...I was having a brain fart. I got it to work. Thanks!!! Looks great!!

[Koogle]

Maya newbie here.... where is this attribute "mode" ? i'm also getting the black render

[migusan76]

:curious: It will be in the Attributes of the shader around the top.

[Fung]

Thanks for your help!
Now It works pretty wellwith MR!
THX!

[migusan76]

:thumbsup: Thats great to hear Fung.

[Splin]

Would love to see some tests :)

[migusan76]

Hopefully if i get some time I'll post some some tests, I've been doing more R&D for the shader mainly the Maya's version adding layer bumping so you can bump control the scattering bump and specular bump for better control on skin softness. Plus improving on
the skin color shifting and those sort of things. Hopefully when I get the maya improvements in I can update the mental ray version with these as well.

This is a test done by a talented artist named David Smith (http://www.thepolysmith.com/) using my DT3Dskin shader
for maya's default renderer.
http://www.digiteck3d.com/forum_images/davidSmithTest.jpg

[Maya4fun]

Hello Miguel,
thanks for your effort and excellent work on shader.
I've tested with a displacement (i'll show you soon) and it works really nice but...

I have a questions (stupid?) about bump mapping>>>

1/ How make a bump when i render in mental ray and maya7 ? While adding node or just a texture because i didn' t find solution.

2/Is it possible that the shader works with normal mapping too?

by advance thanks for response.

Emmanuel.

[migusan76]

Hey Emmanuel to use the bump mapping in the maya or mental ray version of the shader all you have to do is create a bump2d or bump3d node and use the proper node connection to the bump node then take the bump node and connect the outNormal -> to either scatterNormal or specNormal. Yes the shader can work with normal mapping at least I know it works for maya software renderer using one of the normal map plugins out there just make the same connection you would if you were doing bump mapping outNormal -> scatterNormal or specNormal.

[Maya4fun]

Thank you for speed replies i'll show you when i have a nice render with my actual character.

Thanks so much for this nice shader.

Emmanuel.

[migusan76]

That would be awesome to see a render, make sure you remeber to let me check it out :)

[ronaldomiranda]

Very nice result on the render showed above!

by the way, the best result i ever seen using the default Maya render ;)

[migusan76]

ronaldomiranda that test render was done by David Smith (http://www.thepolysmith.com/) I was impressed with his test as well. I have been working on another version to the skin shader which incorporates true subsurface scattering into it. Here are some tests I've been working on with the new skin shader iam working on they are all done in maya's default software renderer.

http://www.digiteck3d.com/forum_images/monkeyWip/monkeyLightSide2.jpg

http://www.digiteck3d.com/forum_images/monkeyWip/monkeyLightUp.jpg

http://www.digiteck3d.com/forum_images/monkeyWip/monkeyLightSide.jpg

[migusan76]

Here is another test render again with the new shader with maya software renderer

http://www.digiteck3d.com/forum_images/monkeyWip/monkeyLight.jpg

[Pixero]

Looks promising. Keep it up! :thumbsup:

[Maya4fun]

Well, i think i'm in the good way :)
i have a lil' question about (yes yes i know...) :

I've maid a texture like red colors for ears etc..... where i connect it ?

By advance thanks for replies.

Emmanuel.

[sylvaimz]

Is there a chance to use your shaders in macos x ?
I can compile it for you if you want...

[migusan76]

Pixero I'll keep working on it :thumbsup:

Maya4fun you best bet would be in the single scattering sectiong parameters to get a fake ear effect. But the new shader there will be no need for such things.

sylvaimz the shader at the moment won't be for macos x since I don't have the means to compile for it, and I'd rather do all the compiling my self.

[thematt]

once again some promising shader there..the new sub surface look very good for some maya render.. awesome.


How long does those test take to render?
anyway gret job once again

keep it up.

matt

[migusan76]

thx's the matt, the renders usually take about 2 - 3 min on full production settings but also i have a old computer so if you were on a nice workstation the renders would be much faster.

[mikemagruder]

Hi Migusan,

Thanks for all your work on this great shader. I'm hoping to get it to work, but I'm having trouble attaching a normal map. I have gone through and correctly installed the shader and linked a color map through the color channel in the shader through a simple file node. I have tried to follow your instructions about attaching normal maps to the "Scatter Normal" channel through a bump2d node. I have attached the bump2d node's outNormal to the DT3D shader's "ScatterNormal", but nothing, except the color information is showing - no bump info from my normal map (there should be wrinkles in the lips and bump info around the eyes/nose). I have also tried a bump3d node as well with the same effect. My question is whether or not the problem has to do with the Z channel changing to 1 (the X and Y stay at 0) when I attach the bump2d(3d) nodes. I have attached an image (hope it shows up) to show my progress. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Can't wait to get this shader working!!!
Mike

[migusan76]

Hi mike, first off what version of maya are you using and what version of the skin shader are you using mental ray or the maya software. I went in and test the maya software version in 7.0 using the bump2d node set to "tangent space normals" I made the connection as before from the bump2d node outNormal to both scatterNormal and specularNormal and it works like a charm for me. the z channel changing when the connection is made is normal the only thing is when you break the connection the z stays at 1 and will mess the rendering up if you don't set all the bump xyz to zero. only in maya 7.0 can the bump2d node handle normal maps so if you are using another version then you need the proper plugin node to handle a normal map for rendering. For example in maya 6.5 there is a plugin called "normalBump2d" that acts like a new bump node only for normal maps. Even mental ray has a shader plugin out there that is used for normal maps. So iam not sure if your using some node to process the normal map correctly. but if the node handling the normal map is for normal maps then it should be working for you just fine.

-MIGUEL

[mikemagruder]

Thanks for the quick reply Miguel,

I'm using Maya 6.0. I did some research and normalBump2d is out for Maya 6.5 and 7. Are there any other solutions possible for Maya 6.0?

It makes sense that I would have to pass the normal map through a bump node that can specially handle Normal Maps. I'll do some research and try to find something.

Thanks again!
Mike

[migusan76]

Hi mike,
I did a search and found a normal bump node for 6.0 its a little weird to make the connection but i should work for you NormalMapBump (http://www.highend3d.com/maya/downloads/plugins/texturing/3745.html) its the only one I found that will work for maya 6.0 but give it a shot and see if it works.

-MIGUEL

[mikemagruder]

Thanks Miguel,

I'll give this a try in the next few days and see how it goes. I think it comes down to how I connect this. Any ideas? It looks like, from the picture, that you connect the normal map (as a file texture node, or perhaps JSNormalMapper node? I'll have to give this a try!) into the normal camera of the normalBump2d node, and then it sounds like I would connect the normalBump2d node into the DT3D shader through the Scatter Normal channel via the outNormal channel. Very interesting possibility! I'll be able to give this a try maybe tomorrow night and I'll let everyone know how it goes. Thanks again for your help. I'll check back soon!

Mike

[migusan76]

mike the connection shouldn't be that hard. should be just as simple as you would a bump2d or bump3d node just connect whatever is the "out" on the normalBumpNode to both "scatterNormal" and "specularNormal"

[mikemagruder]

Thanks for your help Miguel! Unfortunately, I could get the normalMapBump node to work by connecting its outNormal to the NormalCamera of my shader, and then feeding a file node through the outColor channel into the normalMapBump node's normalMap channel and feeding the perspShape worldInverse channel into the normalMapBump's cameraMatrixInv channel (like the normalMapBump node author suggests in his online tutorial) into a normal shader, but when I try the same setup with the DT3D shader and try feeding the normalMapBump's outNormal into the DT3D's ScatterNormal channel, my normal map information doesn't show up. I have run the TangentMapper script and tried it both with and without it, as well as the "toColor" value set to 0 and 1, but to no avail :-(

I only bother you with this, because I hope that it might help others :-) I guess I'll have to wait until I can use a later version of Maya.

Thanks again,
Mike

[migusan76]

Hmmm that sucks its still not working for you. But I remebered from this post that before all the fancy normal map plugins came out you could do normal mapping the old dirty way. By having a shading network do it. I attached an old shader that came from Headus scanning company. Just import it in and were the file node is bring up your normal map and attach to your geometery and I know it works I've used it before.

[mikemagruder]

Miguel,

Thanks so much for including the headus shader. I'd tried the JSNormalMapper in the same way without success, but the headus shader linked directly into the ScatterNormal and SpecNormal channels and worked like a champ! Thank you very much for all your help. The normal map's bump information is not as strong as it is into a regular shader, though. Is there any way of controlling that, either through the headus shader, photoshop, or the DT3D skin?

I'll play around with some of the shader's many great attributes and post some renders this weekend.

Again, thank you for all your help and effort! I really appreciate your time :-) I'll post some renders this weekend.

Sincerely,
Mike

[migusan76]

Hey Mike no prob glad you finaly got the normal mapping to work now. I know how frustrating it is to want to do something and not be able too :) As far as the bump its not that strong simply cause when light scatters the bump is smooth out or softed. Plus I never figured out how to include a control on the headus shader to make it stronger as you would with a regular bump node, may be using a multiply node to make it stronger might work. Look forward to seeing some renders.

[nelsonartmd]

Hey Mike,

Great shader. Any chance of a Maya 7.0 compile? Thanks.

[migusan76]

?????????????????????????

[nelsonartmd]

Sorry Miguel, for calling you Mike, next time I should read the full thread. Thanks.

[rasamaya]

Working great on my XP Maya 7, Thanks Mike LOL

[Superpiccolo]

Great shader Miguel. But I seem to be having probs with redering it in MR. I tried everything mentioned in this thread and nothing seems to be working.

It renders fine in Maya Software.

[migusan76]

nelsonartmd I guess it doesn't matter since really my name is mike in english. rasamaya :)

Superpiccolo what kind of problems are you having?

[Superpiccolo]

The problem I am having is the shader not rendering in MR. It is just a black screen when I click render. It still takes the time to render though which is strange.
I am using MiSSS atm, I am having some grainy issues with that atm though..

[rasamaya]

SuperpiccoloHey, you do know there is a different shader for MR right?
So if you are using the MR shader not dtskin_s then you should see an attribute called mode.
Try switching it to 1 and then 2. (I believe this is your light linking modes?)
Also, you can go back to mode zero, remove default lighting, ad a spot and some FG.
You should get somethin.
Cheers

[Superpiccolo]

:) Oops. Yea I was using the non MR one...:S It's working now. Thx :D

One more question though. I have just got Mi SSS working well also.
Which do you think is better to use?

[rasamaya]

This shader is Fast. And can be used in Software Render. Easy to setup, Superb for skin.
Its not really physically correct, but its close enough for most CG work... skin milk leaves etc
Misss Fast Is good to know as well. But to tell you the truth DT3D rocks the boat.
I just need to get better settings before Im 100% Convinced.

Hey Miguel,
Thanks again.

Currently I am having trouble getting better SSS aproximation.
I dont know why.
Just a little OT:
For eg. On your reel, you use the single scatter shader to do some great ipr SSS tweaks.
I setup the shader, d/l the bunny from Harvard convert etc...
I paused your vid and used all the same settings. No go. Not even a little sss.
Whats your setup, what kind of lighting(I know you have raytrace off cuz IPR doesnt like it).
I tried everything(it seems).
Whats your scale(and is it relevant).
Is the rabbit scene with one backlight?
Is there secret lightlinking needed?

Any how, once I get that I want to get better w dt3dskin.

Any help would be great.

Cheers

[Superpiccolo]

Oh man, this is a HOT shader! :D

I just tested it along side my Mi SSS setup and with the same maps this one looks far better. One question though.

What sort of map would you put under the "Diffusion Scattering" and "Colour Shift" nodes?

[francescaluce]

Misss Fast Is good to know as well. But to tell you the truth DT3D rocks the boat.
I just tested it along side my Mi SSS setup and with the same maps this one looks far better.can you post some examples because I simply don't believe you ! :)


ciao
francesca

[migusan76]

rasamaya thats for clearing that up on the proper shader to use :) The shader on my real was using another shader that is available on highend called single scatter. For that ipr scene I had a point light with decay set on it behind it to show the illusion of single scattering. plus the light is setup with pretty high intensity.

Superpiccolo usually what I use is a painted gray scale map like a specular map and use the maya2d to change the color tint to what color I want and pass it through to those attributes to get variation.


francescaluce, rasamaya put it pretty well the current version is not physically correct but can get the job done is you use it correctly. If you look on page 3 of this thread you will see examples of the new version iam working on that will have a true diffusion term for both maya and mental ray. Mi SSS is amazing I wouldn't go as far to say dt3dshader is better they both give different results.

[rasamaya]

For that ipr scene I had a point light with decay set on it behind it to show the illusion of single scattering. plus the light is setup with pretty high intensity.


I am impressed how easy your shader is, I dont know why I had any trouble, I think I had to many lights, and yup, the intensity should be decent.
Works great. I love IPR SSS tweeking. Tweek Tweek.

Now, back to DT3dSkin.
Blocking
Is there a way to achieve blocking, like the bones in the hand, cheek bones, nose cartalidge(spelling?) etc etc.
With misss fast you can simply just apply the same shader.

I have tried combining the objects, using same shader, reversing normals on external geometry, Im honestly thinking it cant be done yet.... please tell me Im wrong and have overlooked something. I have been testing with both DTskin and single layer scatter in software rendering.

Any advice?

Cheers

[rasamaya]

Does anyone know if DT3DSkin is capable of Blocking?

[rasamaya]

Knock Knock

Anyone?

Ok, at least a few of you know.

Pretty Please.

[migusan76]

at present the shader itself is not capable of blocking for that matter I haven't seen any shader out there that is capable of doing internal blocking which is what iam guessing your trying to do. Iam sure there are comp ways to cheat this effect.

[rasamaya]

ah too bad.
Thanks for the reply.
MR's MISS Fast shader can do internal blocking. It works really easy too... simply apply same shader.
I did a little tutorial on Deathfall after learning.

[-heavy-]

hey Miguel 8]
thanx for that great shader, but is there a way to get it work with HDR?

i tried to use an ibl but it fail to compute, if i put a ligth every thing works
fine but it isnt the real HDR light.

cheerz deHeavy

[o-v]

probably a dumb question.. but how can I apply the presets?

thx for any hints

and the baby works in maya 8, mr 3.5 as well.

EDIT: to bring some fresh air into this...

a lots (2) of questions and some examples...

ok - paying a tribute to francescas wish - a rather complex skin shader based on sss_fast_skin mr shader (with fg, but no ibl) - its a reference (colse to I would like to have).

if any of u has interest on it... well hmmm - its stahlbergs magic.

THERES NO COLORMAP APPLIED YET! just a dummy.

http://www.vrankovina.com/forum/11_12_06_9_40min_800x800.jpg

and the approach with the dt3d skin shader inkl. final gathering + ibl node (no map, but color).

to that I have some questions.

preamble: I've put the skin1 preset from the package manualy in.

http://www.vrankovina.com/forum/dt3d_shader_test800x800.jpg

1) sss afaik size dependent effect. where is the option for that in the shader? cause the setup ain't be right yet - and I gues its a the size issue.

2) what part of the shader controls the terminator (transition area between light and dark area)?

guys - thank u very much for any hints a advises.

theres one more aspect to consider. the sss_fast_skin approach is rather memory intensive... (displacement, normal map, lightmap generation... that can eats up a lot of memory)

both shaders use the same displ (of course the same approximation method) and normal map. theres actually no really significant difference in rendertime. anyway the dt3d is some minutes faster cause there isnt a lightmap generation computed (amI right???) - less memory hungry.

both picts render in 950x950 size in around 10 min. dt3d shader rather 8.

[o-v]

dang... i should not edit but reply to make u keepin' an eye on ;)

[migusan76]

o-v sorry for not getting to answer the questions quickly. But to apply presets on the MR version of the shader you have to take the preset files located in the extras section and install them to your maya preset directory. Then you use the internal attribute preset system that maya has in the shader attributes. For my shader to control the scattering size in 2 section there will be a attribute "scatter depth" and "single depth" setting these closer to 1 will limit the amount of light that scatters in the material. The terminator is being controled in the "color shift" section of the shader by "shift width" and even depending on the color you are using, which by the way works more like absorbing light so if you want a red shift you would put a bluish color and if you wanted blue you would but red etc..... Also going in and toning down the specular attributes takes that plastic look away, but at default preset it won't look at its best.

[o-v]

thank u very much... i mean - thats a pretty soon reaction ;-)

i'll check it out... but first things first - the color map.

[o-v]

hi dudes... i guess I'm to dumb for that... no matter what I do, I don't get closer to this..

I cant get rid of that plastic feelening (even with very low values like 3 for top spec..) and the setup for all the levels is much more trickier than the standard sss approach. but u can smack my backhead and explain me your workflow...

[Stonepilot]

I Can't seem to get it to work. I'm redering in MR the shader shows up on my hypershade. I've change the mode to 2, nothing all black any suggestions.

[migusan76]

Stonepilot - what version of maya are you using to render with and MR version?

[Stonepilot]

I'm using 7. I install version 7 on my machine.

[migusan76]

It should be working just fine for maya 7! If you install the mental ray version it should be rendering.

[Horex]

Hi Miguel and everyone here. Thanx for this realy good shader and your unsefish support here. Here I have problem with plug - in loading in window - settings - prefferencies - plug in manager: DT3D skin mll loaded check is not working. Also I have this in script editor: " Error: The operation completed successfuly ". In Mental Ray everything is OK. I'm using Maya 8 ( found in new download of DT3D plug - in version for it. What is problem about it?

[migusan76]

not sure what is going on. could you be a little more specific. You say your are trying to load the Maya software version on the windows platform for maya 8.0, correct. What version of windows are you using?

[Horex]

Windows Xp Pro. I tryed many times to install plug - in but with no result.

[Horex]

Win XP pro SP1; Maybe it is important: Zone Alarm 7.0.302 ( some people sometimes accuse it for many problems, who knows).

[migusan76]

Horex that is real odd, if you downloaded the new package zip from my site. Then it should be loading up properly if your following the install instructions. Haven't really heard no complaints from anywhere else about it not working.

[Horex]

Ok Miguel, I'll do it and maybe try to reinstall Maya or do something else. That is not only problem with this version of Maya but if nobody have not some problem like this problem is in my computer. Good luck and thanx for answering

[Horex]

Here I'm again: I reinstalled Maya and shader and get nothing again. In plug – in manager loaded is not in fuction only with DT3D and PharrSkinShader and after trying to check it I get a message in Script Editor: // Error: Unable to dynamically load : C:/Program Files/Alias/Maya8.0/bin/plug-ins/pharrSkinShader.mll
This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this problem.
//
// Error: The operation completed successfully.

In Maya 7 there is no problems about it – everything is Ok I have not any idea about this, that’s all for now.

[amannin]

i just wanted to confirm what Horex is saying -- i'm getting the same error

...so it's not just him

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