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View Full Version : CNN:The price of next-gen gaming (Be prepared to to Pay more!)


RobertoOrtiz
05-20-2005, 03:55 PM
Quote:
"As the gaming industry moves into its next generation, the emphasis on cutting edge graphics and sound, mixed with increased development costs might have gamers double checking their finances."
>>Link<< (http://www.cnn.com/money/2005/05/19/technology/personaltech/e3_expensive_gaming/index.htm?cnn=yes)

-R

X3N3TIX
05-20-2005, 04:07 PM
wait a minute is that money in USD? cause if it is then HOLY CRAP! it costs the same as my comp...oh well i'll still get the ps3.

Schwinnz
05-20-2005, 04:13 PM
When will you understand. CNN is total bs at best.

calimity
05-20-2005, 04:33 PM
i heard that microsoft isnt going to screw up their pricing as they did with the first xbox. so hopefully they price it well and then sony have to do the same thing.

goldysingh
05-20-2005, 04:33 PM
CNN is bs, but their not talking about just the console being $1700. If you read on they have factored in high-def t.v.'s and other stuff. A $1700 would be ridiculous.

Spater
05-20-2005, 05:10 PM
christ almighty, that's false advertising, I almost had a heart attack when I saw those numbers, then I saw they're factoring the cost of an HDTV (which I dont need cause I won one at the 2005 GDC:thumbsup: ) and surround sound.

Keith Osborn
05-20-2005, 05:15 PM
I have a hunch Xbox 360 will be reasonably priced. MS has a 6-12 month jump on the launch of PS3 and I believe they'll price it reasonably to get as many units they can in homes to saturate the market, generate buzz and sell as many games as possible. They will take a loss on the hardware, no doubt.

PhilOsirus
05-20-2005, 05:17 PM
By the time of the consoles' releases (6 months to over a year from now), some manufacturing cost will have gone down. Either way a lot of factors are to be taken into consideration here. High console prices mean people will wait before they buy their next-gen consoles, which means less next-gen game sales (games that cost more to make in the first place). Very bad mix, hopefully MS and Sony are willing to loose more money than usual on console sales by aiming for the #1 spot.

KolbyJukes
05-20-2005, 05:21 PM
I'm betting they'll be around $300-$350. I couldn't see them hitting the $500 mark cause that would alienate a lot of casual gamers.

Can't wait to get them all!

-K.

richcz3
05-20-2005, 05:27 PM
The MSRP (Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price) could easily be $399 USD at introduction.
Nothing shocking there. A bare bones system with one controler and no game could be less. Since the 360 will be the only player this season there is no reason to believe they are going to discount until the PS3 arrives. So start saving up.

Lordiego01
05-20-2005, 05:28 PM
talk about sensationalistic reporting.

What a bunch of BS.

michaeljr
05-20-2005, 07:36 PM
first read the whole thing, but they are right about one thing


what is the point of buying a Next Gen system that all games are HD of either 720p or 1080i and NOT have a HD TV to play it on?

you are pretty much THROWING away most of what it can do. all those nifty graphics shots you see being released are all HD and aren't going to look the same when plugged in with an s-video or composite cable on a little 20inch TV.

might as well stick with XBOX cause the games and all that are going to really drop in price within a year.

I paid over 300$ the day of release for XBOX, if the XBOX 360 does sell for 350 to 400$ or even 300$ I doubt it will include a game, maybe for the first so many sold. then those wireless controllers are going to cost a bit more to, atleast 50$-60$ because a standard controller cost 40$ when it came out.

and I don't see why the games will not cost 60$ because most PC games cost 50 to 70 these days, why would a game developer sell the XBOX360 game for 10$ less than the SAME game for the PC?

man that's still a bit of cash, with tax could be 500$ to 600$ out the door with the box, a few controllers, and a couple of games.

I remember when the PS2 came out it was pretty expensive for a while, but we all know that Microsoft looses $$$ for each XBOX it sells, but makes it back on the games.

ohhhh maybe we will have a price war next year, that would be sweet.

hay, maybe the XBOX360 will cost 360$.....

iocomposer
05-22-2005, 08:35 AM
I was talking to a retailer this morning who heard that they will be offering a preorder package with a custom faceplate or something and a couple of other things (he wasn't specific) for $500. Could be that the unit is $400 with the bundle pieces adding on another $100. Seems about right for the kind of technology we're looking at.

Peddy
05-22-2005, 08:48 AM
please dont tell me that people are only now realising how much a console and potential for lasting entertainment costs?

Joril
05-22-2005, 12:52 PM
what is the point of buying a Next Gen system that all games are HD of either 720p or 1080i and NOT have a HD TV to play it on?


Quoted for truth.
HDTV incluided, a good gaming rig will be pretty expensive no matter what you guys say.

Heh, I think I'll be sticking to my pc for a while longer ;)

Shade01
05-23-2005, 04:48 AM
This is great: Nex gen consoles are the 'killer app' that will finally drive sales of HDTV!

durbdk
05-23-2005, 10:18 AM
No, the "killer app" that will finally drive sales of HDTV, at least in the US, is legislation. Legislation was passed a decade ago targeting Dec. 31, 2006 as the deadline for switching the US broadcast system over to the Digital format, if they do it any TV without HDTV functionality or converter will be rendered useless. There's an interesting article here: MSNBC, (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7593620/) as well as more info online. This is a perfect example of clusterfu** government, passing legislation to appease constituants without really figureing out how to do it.

So if you'r in the US and are going to but a new TV soon DO NOT BUY ANALOG! This switch over will happen, if not in 2006, the sometime after, better safe than sorry.
[/url][url="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7593620/"] (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7593620/)

Ranc0r
05-23-2005, 03:35 PM
Im hearing from place to place that they might up the price of the actual games,not the system.
Ive heard from 3 different (random online people in games) that the new price of games for next gen will be around 70 bucks.

Is this true? any web address to back this up?

PhilOsirus
05-23-2005, 04:29 PM
what is the point of buying a Next Gen system that all games are HD of either 720p or 1080i and NOT have a HD TV to play it on?

There is no reason to think that people will buy next gen games because of the high definition resolution. I want new games, that's all.

As for higher game prices it will lead to even more piracy.

michaeljr
05-23-2005, 06:07 PM
then what's the point.

why would you play a system that all game out of the box produce 720p or 1080i and then run it down to 480p. you just threw away 3/4 of the resolution. why invest hundreds just for new games. do you own every game on every current system? crap I think the XBOX alone has 200 games.... is that not enough games?

you would be better off sticking with the XBOX or PS2 then because that's 480 already, plus they are not going to stop selling new games for a while for the PS2 and XBOX. there are still places developing them right now. did the Ninendo's DS kill the GBA? nope.

raise your hand if you play DOOM3 on a PC in 320x240?? or 640x480?? or any game that is, can you even run a PC at those RESs anymore? I remember the day when games where those reses. I also remember the day I was FORCE by the game developers to buy a sound card and then a 3d accelerator card. 20 years, I have a lot of sound cards and graphics cards in the closet.

if you are a PC gamer you are going to spend a cool 1500$ on a decent game rig, if not you are not going to be able to play the next Gen of PC games. I"m still running a GF4 card and it's gotta go soon as it just not powerful enough to play anything new.

so what's so hard to believe to spend 1500$ on an XBOX, HDTV, and some digital surround?

there is a lot, A LOT more to the government passing the HDTV legistlation than just appeasment. first, we are way behing other parts of the world, the more HD / SD channels we have the more we free up airspace bandwidth making it cheaper to broadcast more, we have cell phones now that take HD resolution still photos, we have CCD cames with 5 times hd resolution, we have computers capable of rendering and editing HD resolution in realtime, in less than 5 years normal comsumers will be able to buy palm sized video cameras capable of HD resolutions, we have HD DVDs coming sooner than more broadcast HD.

there are a score of reasons why its going through. if anything, anything, we are WAY BEHIND and the only reason the goverment got involved is to many people where dragging their feet on it. I wouldn't have a problem if on Dec 2006 all TV just stopped, it won't though, which is just another example of not sticking to a plan with the crossover.

look at the footdragging the movie industry is doing with DLP.. sure it's going to cost some people work, no more transporting large rolls of film, no more copies, etc.etc. but hay if it makes the movie a dollar cheaper, then let's have it.

buying a Next Gen system and not playing on HD or digital surround would be like buying the top of the line Porshe911 Turbo and disconecthing the Turbo....

PhilOsirus
05-23-2005, 11:39 PM
then what's the point.

why would you play a system that all game out of the box produce 720p or 1080i and then run it down to 480p. you just threw away 3/4 of the resolution. why invest hundreds just for new games. do you own every game on every current system? crap I think the XBOX alone has 200 games.... is that not enough games?

Since when do people play games for the sole purpose of watching images of high resolution? Might as well make 1080i slideshows...

michaeljr
05-24-2005, 12:16 AM
since now that all Next Gen systems will support HD resolution, all games will run at these resolutions, all models made to these specs, all textures at HD resolutions. and a 16x9 aspect ratio is closer to a persons view of the world. oh and when HD DVD movies to hit mainstream, which I"m sure Spider Man 2 will be on HD BlueRay by the time the PS3 hits the market.

exactly, 1080i slideshows are going to BE GREAT. finally you can have a 3 megapixel image displayed and not have it scaled down or zoomed in

one thing I'm wondering, now that all games will be 16x9 is if when played on a widescreen TV will it be widescreen with black bars like a DVD movie or will it be rendered in a 4x3, or give you the option.

I also don't think higer prices will change piracy much, especially on the PS3. how are you going to pirate a BlueRay disc if it uses the whole disc? 50 gigs is a lot to copy to DVD at 4 gigs per. Or will you have to copy one 60$ game to a hard drive. with HD content they can easliy fill up a disc with HD res cutscenes and high res textures. until you can afford a blueray drive, which as of this they are none for PCs yet. (plus a blueray disc it about 35$ I think)


but there are 3 types of gamers.

hard core who are going to save up the money, go to walmart and get a 720p LCD TV for 700$ at the same time they get their next gen.

average gamer who just plays whatever whenever

and you casual gamer who just doesn't care

but I will bet you this Phil. the day you get your Next Gen consule, hook it up on your regular tv, play for a bit, then visit a buddy a week later and play on his HDTV, you are going cry your eyes out until you save up a grand to buy a 50inch projection TV at the next Best Buy sale.

and then you will never want to play on a 4x3 tv again, crap, man I hate playing games at other people's houses unless they have HD.

it's called being spoiled......

PhilOsirus
05-24-2005, 06:48 AM
since now that all Next Gen systems will support HD resolution, all games will run at these resolutions, all models made to these specs, all textures at HD resolutions. and a 16x9 aspect ratio is closer to a persons view of the world. oh and when HD DVD movies to hit mainstream, which I"m sure Spider Man 2 will be on HD BlueRay by the time the PS3 hits the market.

exactly, 1080i slideshows are going to BE GREAT. finally you can have a 3 megapixel image displayed and not have it scaled down or zoomed in

one thing I'm wondering, now that all games will be 16x9 is if when played on a widescreen TV will it be widescreen with black bars like a DVD movie or will it be rendered in a 4x3, or give you the option.

I also don't think higer prices will change piracy much, especially on the PS3. how are you going to pirate a BlueRay disc if it uses the whole disc? 50 gigs is a lot to copy to DVD at 4 gigs per. Or will you have to copy one 60$ game to a hard drive. with HD content they can easliy fill up a disc with HD res cutscenes and high res textures. until you can afford a blueray drive, which as of this they are none for PCs yet. (plus a blueray disc it about 35$ I think)


but there are 3 types of gamers.

hard core who are going to save up the money, go to walmart and get a 720p LCD TV for 700$ at the same time they get their next gen.

average gamer who just plays whatever whenever

and you casual gamer who just doesn't care

but I will bet you this Phil. the day you get your Next Gen consule, hook it up on your regular tv, play for a bit, then visit a buddy a week later and play on his HDTV, you are going cry your eyes out until you save up a grand to buy a 50inch projection TV at the next Best Buy sale.

and then you will never want to play on a 4x3 tv again, crap, man I hate playing games at other people's houses unless they have HD.

it's called being spoiled......

Sony isn't hoping to make the Blu-Ray format a standard to then just use it for the PS3. They want the format to be everywhere and Blu-Ray writers to be sold as well, however that will work. And if a Blu-Ray disc costs 35$ games would cost what, 150$? The currently per-DVD cost is probably less than 50 cents.

And for your info, I'm not a casual gamer, I've been playing games since the days of the Atari and so on and on, like many people here, and I've been playing all my current-gen games on my crappy RCA TV, even after having seen games on HD TVs. Sure it would be nice and all, but seriously, the day I feel I MUST save hundreds or thousands of dollars for a TV is the day I'll eat KFC for breakfast.

Peddy
05-24-2005, 07:08 AM
so what's so hard to believe to spend 1500$ on an XBOX, HDTV, and some digital surround?



because with my computer i can just do so much more stuff. I'm not going to patronise anybody by listing them.
However, putting it side by side with a console, its still not pocket change. its simply one or the other, because both just isnt a viable option if next gen is going to cost so much (for my circumstances). But dont get me wrong - even though im probably the only person on the planet who doesnt have any problems with any facet of the new console designs, and i want to play killzone 2 as much as the next guy or gal, i need to really think about spending so much money on something that has 'generations' to completely replace it.

michaeljr
05-24-2005, 07:53 AM
what's wrong wtih chicken for breakfast?

I wouldn't be surprised that the next XBOX and the PS4 will require HDTV and will not play on a normal TV. (2008 or so) I remember that with what was it, Quake 2 requiring a 3dFX card? or was it Doom 2? if you didn't have it, you didn't play it.

and really with this next gen consules, there is no way a pc can touch them for games because a good PC monitor alone cost 300$. I think soon, maybe with this Next Gen software, you are going to see the EXACT same game on the PC, same resolutions, same textures, same sound, as you do on the consules. (thus why you will most likely see the same price for the games) it's just wheter or not you want to play it on a 19 inch monitor or a big screen TV.

and if these NextGen consules are pumping out HD, USB2, wireless net and all that processing power, other than running specialty software like 3D or graphic stuff, there will be nothing you can do on a PC you can't do on a consule. and I have a feeling Microsoft with XBOX360 will show us this with a keyboard and mouse, email, word processing, etc. etc. remember an HDTV is 1920x1080, that's better than my 1280x1024 on my 19inch monitors. so that's good enough to write an email or view your family photos.

and who knows what some crazy hacker will do. might see linux or winxp running but kickly fast on a XBOX360. wonder if you can animate with 3dsMAX and an XBOX controller?

but phil, you are right, if you are happy playing you are happy playing.

if someone wants to just play it as it is, then that cool with me, but if you want to play it how the developers played it, then you have to spend the some bucks.

for me I guess it would be like seeing Star Wars EP3 on film... ain't going to happen..

psyop63b
05-24-2005, 04:18 PM
There's an interesting article here: MSNBC, (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7593620/) as well as more info online. This is a perfect example of clusterfu** government, passing legislation to appease constituants without really figureing out how to do it.

Thanks for linking that article. I read it a while back and was thinking the same thing. I doubt the cutoff date will be adhered to, because "Congress can ignore the end-of-2006 cut-off if fewer than 85 percent of households have digital television sets." I seriously doubt we're anywhere near 85%. IMHO this legistlation was not passed to appease any constituency other than industry lobbyists. Harry Homeowner couldn't have cared less about HDtv 10 years ago.

Although you may have to buy $1000's worth of stuff to get the most out of your new console, you can use the HDtv and Surround sound to enjoy tv shows, movies and music as well (something PC's aren't so well suited for. I think it's still a bargain compared to buying a new $400 video card every couple years (plus RAM, HDD's, CPU upgrades, etc.) to play a $50 PC game.

sumpm1
05-26-2005, 01:27 PM
I'm ready to see Microsoft be the next dropout like Sega by releasing their console prior to Sony again.

Knotter8
05-26-2005, 01:31 PM
L'histoire se repete. It'll be about the same situation as last time. I can remember my PAL launch PS2. We still had DFL back in 2000 in the Netherlands but I paid about 525 Euros for it. That's more than 500 USD. So, these next gen prices are no shock to me.

michaeljr
05-26-2005, 05:54 PM
I doubt anything will stop microsoft from putting the pressure on sony. geeze, both companies have billions of dollars of revenue from other areas. crap, Bill Gates is worth billions he could easily use his own money to push the xbox out onto the market and undersell it to make sure xbox hardware sells. I mean, didn't the XBOX sell for less than it cost to make? It's all about software. you make a game for a few million dollars, sell a million copies at 60$ a pop and you have a return rate 10 times that of a low budget movie.I had a buddy who went to Japan with his dad a long time ago and bought a N64. that cost him a fortune for that thing. he also owns a NeoGeo CD gold something and for that the games cost him hundreds a piece because they were the same games you played in the arcade.

itsallgoode9
05-26-2005, 07:09 PM
then what's the point.

why would you play a system that all game out of the box produce 720p or 1080i and then run it down to 480p. you just threw away 3/4 of the resolution. why invest hundreds just for new games. do you own every game on every current system? crap I think the XBOX alone has 200 games.... is that not enough games?

you would be better off sticking with the XBOX or PS2 then because that's 480 already, plus they are not going to stop selling new games for a while for the PS2 and XBOX. there are still places developing them right now. did the Ninendo's DS kill the GBA? nope.

raise your hand if you play DOOM3 on a PC in 320x240?? or 640x480?? or any game that is, can you even run a PC at those RESs anymore? I remember the day when games where those reses. I also remember the day I was FORCE by the game developers to buy a sound card and then a 3d accelerator card. 20 years, I have a lot of sound cards and graphics cards in the closet.

if you are a PC gamer you are going to spend a cool 1500$ on a decent game rig, if not you are not going to be able to play the next Gen of PC games. I"m still running a GF4 card and it's gotta go soon as it just not powerful enough to play anything new.

so what's so hard to believe to spend 1500$ on an XBOX, HDTV, and some digital surround?

there is a lot, A LOT more to the government passing the HDTV legistlation than just appeasment. first, we are way behing other parts of the world, the more HD / SD channels we have the more we free up airspace bandwidth making it cheaper to broadcast more, we have cell phones now that take HD resolution still photos, we have CCD cames with 5 times hd resolution, we have computers capable of rendering and editing HD resolution in realtime, in less than 5 years normal comsumers will be able to buy palm sized video cameras capable of HD resolutions, we have HD DVDs coming sooner than more broadcast HD.

there are a score of reasons why its going through. if anything, anything, we are WAY BEHIND and the only reason the goverment got involved is to many people where dragging their feet on it. I wouldn't have a problem if on Dec 2006 all TV just stopped, it won't though, which is just another example of not sticking to a plan with the crossover.

look at the footdragging the movie industry is doing with DLP.. sure it's going to cost some people work, no more transporting large rolls of film, no more copies, etc.etc. but hay if it makes the movie a dollar cheaper, then let's have it.

buying a Next Gen system and not playing on HD or digital surround would be like buying the top of the line Porshe911 Turbo and disconecthing the Turbo....

Dude this reasoning is crazy, i hate to say it. If the only benefit of a next generation system was that it has a higher res, then it would be quite pointless to even make a brand new system.

michaeljr
05-26-2005, 07:57 PM
no it would be pointless to BUY the new system, at least to me it is. if you don't care about HD res or new online play, then why not spend 1/2 the money on an original XBOX, which by then you will be able to buy good games for a 1/4 of the price as a single new XBOX360 game and have just as much fun playing.

other than a few new titles, it's not like a racing game is going to change all that much other than a few more cars on the track and better dynamics. racing is still racing you know. but if you want HD res and chunks of cars flying, then you get a 360. but what's the point of dozen of car parts flying around if you are playing 720x480 and each part is as big as a pixel or two? will you even see them? at 720x480 you aren't going to be able to read what you put on your licenses plate or on the helmet of the driver, but with HD you will be able to see his anger expression when someone smashing into him.

other than video games and high end graphics such as NLE, 3d and 2d image manipulation, there is really on reason to upgrade your computer. I mean you can still type your term paper on a 5 year old computer, a dual core cpu with 2 gigs of ram and a 6800GT card isnt going to make you type faster.

but if you want to play the start-of-the-art video games, then you need that super fast system. even the big boy animation companies still use older computers sometimes because upgrading during a project may be dangereous and very expensive.

if anything pushes computer technology it's video games and corporate competition. no none game software I know of right now uses everything a high end Nvidia or ATI board offers. yet.... but just about every new game like Doom3 or Unreal 2k4 or Half Life 2 does.

same for a game system. if you want hordes of demons rushing down the hill at you, and you want to be able to see them bigger than 10pixels by 20., then you need HD...

PhilOsirus
05-26-2005, 11:37 PM
crap, Bill Gates is worth billions he could easily use his own money to push the xbox out onto the market and undersell it to make sure xbox hardware sells. I mean, didn't the XBOX sell for less than it cost to make?

While that would always work, it would freak out investors, and MS would loose a lot of money. The PS2 also sold for less than it cost to make, at least for a certain period as production costs kept lowering. And anyway, let's say MS did accept to bleed money to gain control of the market, what happens AFTER they do reach the #1 spot? How will they maintain that position if they had to bleed money to get there? They have to start making money at some point and in a manner that doesn't tell investors to invest in a company that is playing Russian roullette.

KayosIII
05-27-2005, 01:16 AM
It was my understanding that in US business law it is illegal to sell something for less than the cost it took to make it.... Am I missing something or has the legislation changed.

t-man152
05-27-2005, 01:31 AM
thats not too bad. here is there Math

Hi Def TV= 1000
Suround sound= 300
Console= 400

thats not too bad of a price in fact it was expected.

t-man152
05-27-2005, 01:33 AM
It was my understanding that in US business law it is illegal to sell something for less than the cost it took to make it.... Am I missing something or has the legislation changed.

why would it be illegal? it may be bad buisness, stupid financial decision but I dont understand why it would be illegal?

Renderman_XSI
05-27-2005, 01:51 AM
thats not too bad. here is there Math

Hi Def TV= 1000
Suround sound= 300
Console= 400

thats not too bad of a price in fact it was expected.

more like:

Hi Def TV(1080P)= 7,000-10,000 USD
Console(PS3)=299 USD + tax

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/24/news_6126410.html

michaeljr
05-27-2005, 02:16 AM
no it's not illegal. only if you have a monopoly on it or use it to force others out of busy, like say if Microsoft sold the XBOX for a one dollar. then there would be trouble because Sony would say, we can't sell for a dollar because we only have 10billion in assest where as microsoft might have 50billion in assest, and in the end, Microsoft would win.

it's not a stupid business pratice if you look at it this way. so lets say a PS3 or XBOX360 cost $400 to make, but sells for $300 ok so you sell 1,000,000 boxes, you make $300mil but loose $100mil in sales. ok, wow, $100mil lost, oh no you would think. ok, but look at this, say Microsoft and Sony make $15 per game sold (out of $60). ok, and the average owner, lets say buys 10 games in a year (opening says of the XBOX gamers bought 3 to 4 games per XBOX sold) that's 10mil games sold. at $15 a game, that's $150mil minus your $100mil lost, you just made $50mil, you sell 5mil boxes, you just made $250, you sell 20mil boxes, even though you loose all that money for their cost, you make back nearly 1billion in game percentages back. this is a LONG TERM INVESTMENT. so loosing a billion dollars means nothing to these mega giants, if in 10 years they make back 3 to 5 billion.

and what the heck renderman, what kind of HD tv are you looking at 7 to 10k would be the largest top of the line LCD 60 plus inch projection TVs.

here is a basic 26" HDTV LCD monitor for 800$ http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3757024&cat=3944&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944

or here is a decent 52" tube projection with 1080i for 1200$ http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6980332&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat31800050029&id=1099388906715

I"ve seen used 2nd generation HDTVs on EBAY for under 1000$

baaah888
05-27-2005, 02:32 AM
well i aint buying a HDTV for a god damn console, if i buy i HDTV it will be for DVD's and then gameing will be an added bonus,

as soon as you require a HDTV to play these games is the day the mainstream and the poorer gamers lose intrest, HDTV WILL BE OPTIONAL until it the next generation like xbox3or ps4 at least,

As for me buying one, well i dont really care enough about the graphics to splash out 2000 on a decent sized TV when ive just splashed out X on a console and some games, and before anyone says but hdtv is the way forward, sure it is, but not solely for console gameing, especially not with the quality of games recently, games designers (or more importantly publishers) need to learn what gameplay is again before i spend as much as i used to on games.


As for the cost of game's going up, well all that will do is play into the hands of pirates, people would buy alot more games if they were cheaper, which to me sugests people would be put off buying games if they cost more. And again with nearly every "good" game of 2005 being a sequel or a licence with no imagination i can't see me buying many games if they cost 60 for a prettier looking copy of a game i had on the current generation.

f97ao
05-27-2005, 03:01 AM
I'm surprised some of you guys say it's a waste to buy the xbox360 without hdtv, that the graphic won't be that much better. Actually it will be, way, way better still since there is far more polygons, far better physics, better textures (yes, you will see more detail if you are fairly close). Also the games may possibly be more fun as well, since technology admits more freedom. For example Oblivion.

Now, my point is here only that graphics still looks better even if the resolution is the same.

Myself if I would buy a xbox, would be the first time i'm really interested in a consol actually, then I would probably use a normal tv first, and then when I have the money (I was about to say isk, hehe , anyone playing eve-online will understand...) I intent to purchase a projector with hdtv resolution. Then gaming should be quite breathtaking.

/Andreas

michaeljr
05-27-2005, 03:02 AM
you say that now, but when HDTV is required to view anything, HD DVDs, over air HD, next gen consules, then you will be buying a new TV sooner than later. the manufactures will get to a point, just like the did with the record player and the cassete tape, just like they are doing now with VHS (go to Best Buy and see how many VHS movies you can buy compared to DVDs) that the cost of a HD tv will become as low as a standard TV and slowly those manufactors will shut down those 4x3 standard tv production lines. I remember when I worked in sales many years ago, I paid 800$ for a mid level Sony 32" tube tv. that was my discounted price, it still works for parents some 13 years later, but now for $1200 I can buy a 50 inch HDTV, you can get a mid level 32" tube for under 300$ (yet, high end tubes still cost nearly 800$)

I bet by the end of this year, you will be able to buy a brand name 50" HD tube projection TV for under 1k. and slowly they will get cheaper and cheaper, sooner and sooner.

and if you don't buy an HDTV then you will be required to spend a small sum on a convertor ontop of what you paid for your 4x3 tv when the goverment, which it will do sooner than later, shuts off the NTSC signals, remember they get paid for frequency, so if they shut down one analog signal ranger and replace it with a dozen digital channels, they make more money.

and now it sounds like we will have a HD format war, in which case a PS3 could be the cheapest solution to watch HD DVDs and Sony has a TON of movies they own the rights to.

and you know what sucks, they don't care about us. because as soon as you get your next gen consule, a year and half later they are going to say oh here is our new 5 gig model that does 4 displays and lets 20 people play on one system and you will buy it cause in a year no more games for the system you just bought (or it breaks like my 1st Gen XBOX DVD drive did)

baaah888
05-27-2005, 04:50 AM
and now it sounds like we will have a HD format war, in which case a PS3 could be the cheapest solution to watch HD DVDs and Sony has a TON of movies they own the rights to.

yeah they need to get their arses in gear and come to a comprimise before we have another format war, one will prevail over the other in the long run anyway so releasing two will just cause confusion and annoyance for consumers who might not buy either till a clear winner is determined.

michaeljr
05-27-2005, 05:00 AM
well according to the news, we are going to have a format war. which means, at least for me, I won't be getting HD DVDs for a while.


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050526/tc_nm/japan_toshiba_dc_3

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000590044641/

http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/463748/rss

what is SO STUPID is that they want us, the consumer to sort it out, with our money. so lets say if you like Spider Man, so you have to buy a Sony HD DVD player, but sorry, if you also like Incredibles, well you need to buy this other brand HD DVD player. and if you like both, welp you have to buy two DVD players.

and then, and then, when one format wins, which will happen, you will most likely have to buy a new copy of Incredibles to play on your Sony HD player or a new copy of Incredibles in the end, when your other brand up and dies.

and then, on top of that, really, in the end, the winner will only win a few dollars per DVD player for the rights to put their format logo and techonolgy in the box. because all the manufactures will RETOOL and make the other player anyway.

lame, come on, I already went though $1000s for laser disc back in the day only to be able to buy the Star Wars movies on DVD all for 30$ compared to 250$ for those same movies on Laser Disc (although there are a lot more behind the scenes and extras on the laser disc than the DVDs, which means that a new HD DVD Star Wars set will come out and I will have to buy another copy of it)

PhilOsirus
05-27-2005, 05:43 AM
this is a LONG TERM INVESTMENT. so loosing a billion dollars means nothing to these mega giants, if in 10 years they make back 3 to 5 billion.

Unlikely because investors would find this a risky venture, they would not want to invest in a company that says "look, we'll loose billions for the next 5 or 10 years, but trust us! In 15 years from now we will be number 1!". Those investors are going to look at who is currently #1 and will invest in that company instead.

As for the format war: Toshiba, while they cannot be blamed for wanting to make money, is to blame in the end. If any format should win it is the higher quality one because in the end it will become the norm. Why go for 1/2 the technology if we have to then make the full leap in a few years anyway? The business sector never advanced by preventing itself from adapting more efficient technologies and customers never benefit from buying a technology that is half as good as what could be available. The only kind of businesses that invest half they should in half quality products are small businesses that never grow.

PhilOsirus
05-27-2005, 05:48 AM
*Opps, wrong thread

michaeljr
05-27-2005, 06:07 AM
I dont think so, it happens all the time, car companies loose money for underselling, air lines fight over ticket prices, microsoft lost tons of cash on the XBOX.

look at the target one year estimate for MS stocks http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=MSFT&d=t

but I'm betting they keep XBOX and MS in different division, so you can transfer money from one to another and not have it effect both, that way peole can invest and know that the XBOX won't kill their stocks.

Sony probably does the same thing with their entertainment and hardware divisions.

I guess Toshiba and all it's allies don't want to retool, and I'm betting they also don't want to pay a competitor, sony for their rights to BlueRay and the logo.

just like the inventors of DVD get a royalty for every DVD logo and DVD player made. that's why it's illegal for those who make their own DVD video at home to but the DVD logo on their DVD. cause it's not a "REAL" glass master DVD. crazy huh...

KayosIII
05-27-2005, 09:07 AM
It just that I remember Netscape making a big deal about the fact that they couldn't sell their software for less than it cost to make for legal reasons but they could give it away for free. Interesting anyway....

michaeljr
05-27-2005, 09:35 AM
maybe if the sold it for a profit, they couldn't sue Microsoft for putting IE into Windows for Free. not sure what anti trust laws and monopoly laws are on the books dealing with Microsoft

KayosIII
05-27-2005, 02:35 PM
No earlier than that.... Netscape 2.... Microsoft didn't care about the internet at this stage. Mosiac I think was the competition. That version of netscape was freely available.

Rhalin
05-27-2005, 04:46 PM
I dont think so, it happens all the time, car companies loose money for underselling, air lines fight over ticket prices, microsoft lost tons of cash on the XBOX.

look at the target one year estimate for MS stocks http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=MSFT&d=t

but I'm betting they keep XBOX and MS in different division, so you can transfer money from one to another and not have it effect both, that way peole can invest and know that the XBOX won't kill their stocks.


The different division thing also forces them to do wonders such as charge themselves for each copy of Windows running on the Xbox, which a lot of people fail to realize or mention. If it wasn't for this, MS might not even be able to claim they "lost money on each XBox sold" Sure their Xbox division may have "lost money" but the money they lost isn't money the consumer neccisarily saved, its, at least in part, money they gave to themselves.

HapZungLam
05-27-2005, 04:53 PM
aww. the price has included a TV set and a surround system. no wonder.

Teyon
05-28-2005, 06:22 PM
Well, I for one don't plan on jumping on the HDTV band wagon until I can afford to do so. I don't care about how much visual quality I'm losing out on enough to spend 1000 dollars on something I can only look at and then spend another 3-500 on a console and games. Call me cheap but for 1000 I'd like to know my purchase will be used for awhile. I mean, look at Betamax and VHS. Betamax had the higher quality images, that's why TV studios used them for so long after they died, but in the end, consumers went with VHS. Why? Beta was too darn expensive. Joe Q. Public on the street can't afford to pay $1000 right now on a tv, not if he's spending money on keeping his kids in school and paying his bills. That's just a fact. I don't see folks getting loans for a tv. "Oh honey, let's use that extra 1,000 to buy a tv...timmy can work a second job to pay for his school books." Nope, not gonna happen.

Sony and MS will release the new consoles with the ability to use both forms of display. At this time, it just makes good business sense...just like backwards compatibility. 3-5 years from now, that will change but for this "next gen" of gaming, our ol' tv displays will still be used. Every console maker loses money initially on releasing a new console, it's been said over and over again. The money is in the games and the market share. Higher prices for consoles and add-ons only alienate your potential buyers, so I'm thinking they'll wait until HD is more mainstream before making it "required".

Brumfield
05-29-2005, 02:21 AM
i highly doubt either the xbox 360 or the ps3 will launch at more than $300-350.


here's a recent article about the 360's price: click. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/27/news_6126611.html)


and one about the ps3: click. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/24/news_6126410.html)


$400 at the very very most, imo. anything higher and the casual gamers will wait for price drops (personally i think $400 is probably too much). and since casual gamers are where they make most of their money, they'll be smart with the pricing.


anyway... as for this cnn article. meh. you don't HAVE to have an HDTv and surround sound to use the consoles nor enjoy them. so factoring that into the price is misleading.

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