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Beamtracer
05-19-2005, 10:37 PM
http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/BD/images/top_img04.jpg

The war continues between rival disk formats Blu-Ray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray) (who's main backer is Sony), and HD-DVD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD-DVD) (developed by Toshiba.)



Last week (http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2005_05/pr1002.htm), Toshiba announced a new Tri-layer version of HD-DVD which can hold 45GB of data (15GB per layer x 3)
http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2005_05/imgdat/img1001.jpg (http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2005_05/pr1002.htm)



Today, TDK (part of the Blu-Ray consortium) has upped the ante by announcing a Quad-layer version of Blu-Ray which can hold a whopping 100GB per disk (25GB per layer x 4).
LINK: http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/05/19/tdk/index.php
http://www.tdk.com/blue_laser/images/blu-ray-DISC-blue-J.jpg (http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/05/19/tdk/index.php)
This disk can hold the equivalent of 25,000 iTunes songs (AAC format).
If you played these songs back to back, it would take more than 2 months to play from the beginning to the end of the disk, with continuous music all the time.

Now your parties can last for months on end, without ever having to change the disk! :)

L.Rawlins
05-19-2005, 10:51 PM
With these formats forthcoming... somebody tell me again why I need a hard drive.

These things are bigger in capacity, smaller in size, and portable. :)

Spater
05-19-2005, 11:02 PM
Now your parties can last for months on end, without ever having to change the disk! :)

But there's always a jackass who can't sit stilla nd will put the same song on repeat again and again and again and again. and then he listens to the first minute of the song then skips to the next

-Vormav-
05-19-2005, 11:11 PM
With these formats forthcoming... somebody tell me again why I need a hard drive.

These things are bigger in capacity, smaller in size, and portable. :)

It takes me 5-10 minutes to burn a regular CD...can you imagine how long it must take to burn 100gigs of data to a disc? http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/surprised.gif
They better start developing 1600X drives.

Beamtracer
05-19-2005, 11:13 PM
I'm looking forward to the first rock band that puts out an album which lasts 2 months long!

PhilOsirus
05-20-2005, 12:45 AM
It takes me 5-10 minutes to burn a regular CD...can you imagine how long it must take to burn 100gigs of data to a disc? http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/surprised.gif
They better start developing 1600X drives.

That's actually a legetimate concern. I heard it was not possible to make CD writers more than 50somethingX, or else the CD breaks apart.

Geta-Ve
05-20-2005, 12:54 AM
oh im sure theres a way, have it spin at 2000x while it shoots out liquid nitrogen on the cd :D

thus not only keeping the cd nice and frost but also making a protective layer than is impenitrable !! haha :D

edit: forgot to say, this is great news for the ps3!!

Beamtracer
05-20-2005, 01:12 AM
According to the British publication The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/19/tdk_four-layer_bd/), TDK has developed a coating that makes it possible to take the disk out of the protective cartridge. Previously, Blu-Ray disks had to be kept inside a cartridge to prevent scratching.

Generally, the more data you can pack on a disk, the less stable that data becomes. Disk formats with high data density will be more susceptible to scratches and dust.

Blu-Ray is effected more by scratches and dust than standard DVD.

In theory, a CD should be better again, as it is not as dense.

L.Rawlins
05-20-2005, 01:19 AM
Whats the obsession with discs anyway? Especially if they hold so many flaws...

Why not try and cram that sort of capacity into a small flash type drive thingamy. Perfect for .mp3 players, my mobile phone, my games console, my PC...

Everything.

No moving parts or scratchable surfaces is surely the better and more practical medium. No?

Plus 'drag-and-drop' is just the best way to go about doing anything. No additional burning software neccesary. :)

Geta-Ve
05-20-2005, 01:36 AM
explains the umd thing, i always wondered heh

bohmanart
05-20-2005, 03:41 AM
Any idea how much one of these discs will cost. I was wanting to compare the price difference to my 120 GB External HD.

baaah888
05-20-2005, 03:45 AM
With these formats forthcoming... somebody tell me again why I need a hard drive.

These things are bigger in capacity, smaller in size, and portable. :)

you need a harddrive to store data on to run at optimum speeds that will be read alot quicker than a disk.

but i get where your coming from.

NanoGator
05-20-2005, 03:47 AM
It takes me 5-10 minutes to burn a regular CD...can you imagine how long it must take to burn 100gigs of data to a disc? http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/surprised.gif
They better start developing 1600X drives.


heh. The number of x refers to revolutions the discs make, not data rate. They'll probably be kinda slow, but not THAT slow.

novadude
05-20-2005, 03:52 AM
Keep in mind that with the increased density of the disks comes increased read/write performance as well

NanoGator
05-20-2005, 04:47 AM
Whats the obsession with discs anyway? Especially if they hold so many flaws...


They also hold a lot more bits. Even today, it isn't feasible to release a solid state CD-sized media for anywhere close to what CD-RWs cost.

What's driving this particular media is an HD replacement for the DVD.

PhilOsirus
05-20-2005, 04:51 AM
Well I don't like how fragile they are. If this is true, PS3 games (among other high capacity formats) are going to be more fragile..

flipnap
05-20-2005, 01:27 PM
Well crystals are right aruond the corner. And probably be "burned" with multipoint lasers. Remember the crystals in the Reeves superman film in the ice fortress? theyre in development right now and will prolly be around the same size (magic marker) with capacities of around 500 terrabytes.. Im hoping holgraphy will be in full effect by then, it will necessitate something with that capacity. and before you catch yourself saying something like "What will we ever need that much storage for?" think about 5 years ago when you had that HUGE 3 gigabyte hard drive.. :) Wont be long before blueray and its like to be a faint memory..

Kinda like these (which arent them)

http://www.crystalsandjewelry.com/crystalsnjewelry_images/crystals/brazil_lazer_wand_med.jpg

sumpm1
05-26-2005, 01:15 PM
This (http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=286) company had plans of releasing a Flourescent multi layer optical disc that could store 100 gigs of data by using multiple layers, like up to 100. And the bandwitdth on these devices would use all 4 layers at once, one gig per second bandwidth, incredible.

This company dissapeared in 2000, a supposed lack of funding.

DarkTure
05-26-2005, 03:03 PM
Nobody will afford them in sweden with our new law :(

kilikili
05-26-2005, 04:46 PM
Who'll be the first to microwave one?

Crazzy Legs
05-26-2005, 06:20 PM
the reason they are so fagile is because of the amount of data that is packed into one small space. a single scratch could wipe out an entire scene (not literaly) on a Blue Ray, as compared to a DVD (not HDDVD) where that scratch might mess-up a second or less of a scene in a movie.

pgp_protector
05-26-2005, 08:38 PM
Might be good for Backing up the HD monthly or for movies and such.

But I can't wait tell the first person complains about making a coaster after burning it for 10 Hours :D

Para
05-26-2005, 08:53 PM
Nobody will afford them in sweden with our new law :(

Out of interest, what kind of law?

NickBFTD
05-26-2005, 08:58 PM
the reason they are so fagile is because of the amount of data that is packed into one small space. a single scratch could wipe out an entire scene (not literaly) on a Blue Ray, as compared to a DVD (not HDDVD) where that scratch might mess-up a second or less of a scene in a movie.

in terms of movies the opposite would be true, but in terms of general data you are correct.

Saurus
05-26-2005, 09:32 PM
Looks like Iomega is upping everybody with DVD that can hold 800 gigs!

http://www.gadgetspy.co.uk/2005/05/25/iomega-patents/

Soon2bAnimator
05-26-2005, 10:01 PM
Who'll be the first to microwave one?


lmao rotf wooowwwww...if i can afford it i'll do it

PhilOsirus
05-26-2005, 10:29 PM
So far no one has explained how will we be able to burn Blu-Ray discs at speeds higher than 50-something X. I heard we can't go higher than this without damaging the disc, so what's going to happen? This means it will take longer to manufacture movies, games, or anything else using that format, which again would mean raised costs.

DarkTure
05-26-2005, 10:52 PM
Out of interest, what kind of law?

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=243810 :/

novadude
05-26-2005, 11:29 PM
So far no one has explained how will we be able to burn Blu-Ray discs at speeds higher than 50-something X. I heard we can't go higher than this without damaging the disc, so what's going to happen? This means it will take longer to manufacture movies, games, or anything else using that format, which again would mean raised costs.

It's the same way a dvd burning at only '16x' finishes in six minutes. The 'x' rating only compares the speed of the disk to a normal audio cd, rated at '1x'. Because of the increased data density of DVD's, HD DVD's, etc. they can spin at the same speed as the cd but cover more data over that speed. A 100gig disk burning at '1x' speed will burn more than 150 times the amount of data written on a cd at '1x' in the same amount of time.

Schwinnz
05-26-2005, 11:48 PM
Whats the obsession with discs anyway? Especially if they hold so many flaws...

Why not try and cram that sort of capacity into a small flash type drive thingamy. Perfect for .mp3 players, my mobile phone, my games console, my PC...

That's my opinion too.

And CDs are too vulnerable to scratching, you can't keep using them a lot and keep their reliability.

NanoGator
05-27-2005, 02:05 AM
So far no one has explained how will we be able to burn Blu-Ray discs at speeds higher than 50-something X. I heard we can't go higher than this without damaging the disc, so what's going to happen? This means it will take longer to manufacture movies, games, or anything else using that format, which again would mean raised costs.

novadude pretty much explained it. For every revolution, you have more bits going through the laser. A 1x DVD is comparable to an 8x CD-ROM for the same amount of data transferred, or something like that.

f97ao
05-27-2005, 02:10 AM
This is all great, but problem is when will we actually use these? Dual layer dvds are not even usable right now since they are too expensive. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes 3 years before these new super dvds will be commonplace and reasonable prised.

It would be very nice if the dvd movies will be replaces. The resolution is way too low now.

/Andreas

Peddy
05-27-2005, 02:58 AM
One thing I feel is important, is when you lose or damage a blu-ray dvd, you lose 100gig worth of data. if you lose a cd-r, you only lose 700mb. there are ups and down. it will take longer to burn , but thats logical until something else is developed.

Geta-Ve: "oh im sure theres a way, have it spin at 2000x while it shoots out liquid nitrogen on the cd"

its not so much about heat as it is about simply the amount of force its under while spinning at more than 50,000rpm. if you've seen slow motion footage of it happening, just before the cd disintegrates, it's shape is warped - it ripples, for lack of a better way to describe it, and then it simply shatters into hundreds of pieces. CDs (700mb) can withstand up to about 80x in some cases (high quality, non-mircowaved cds =]), but the companies already know that to push it past 52x is increasing the chance of it falling apart during spin, which is why you cant buy 70x speed drives.

Id much prefer solid-state storage, but a 100gig blu-ray disc will be much smaller than any hard-drive of the same storage size for a long long time. But i suppose a range is still good. people still use floppy discs, zip discs, and cd-rws (when cd-rs are cheap as chips).

sounds marvelous for proprietry use in console though...

Lorecanth
05-27-2005, 03:22 AM
So far no one has explained how will we be able to burn Blu-Ray discs at speeds higher than 50-something X. I heard we can't go higher than this without damaging the disc, so what's going to happen? This means it will take longer to manufacture movies, games, or anything else using that format, which again would mean raised costs.

....well as far as manufacturing, it won't matter at all. At no point in the glass mastering process is a laser used. Specific instances of where I think this disc could be useful then, are the entire seasons of TV shows in HD on 1 disc (multi disc packages are really expensive). Or games that include truly scalable graphics.

Peddy
05-27-2005, 04:13 AM
Or games that include truly scalable graphics.

something about that makes my mouth water.

PhilOsirus
05-27-2005, 04:37 AM
It's the same way a dvd burning at only '16x' finishes in six minutes. The 'x' rating only compares the speed of the disk to a normal audio cd, rated at '1x'. Because of the increased data density of DVD's, HD DVD's, etc. they can spin at the same speed as the cd but cover more data over that speed. A 100gig disk burning at '1x' speed will burn more than 150 times the amount of data written on a cd at '1x' in the same amount of time.

Ah that makes sense! Thanks for the info:)

Larrikin
05-27-2005, 07:44 AM
100 Gig ? Is that all? How about 800 Gig http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7432

Para
05-27-2005, 07:56 AM
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=243810 :/

Oh, you got that kind of law now too. Well, here's how we Finns get around the law: We buy our stuff from outside Finland but inside EU which means mostly either from Verkkokauppa.com's Estonia HQ specially setup for selling cd/dvd-r/rw:s or nierle.de. I suggest that you look into how buying items from abroad could help you and your fellow Swedes.

DarkTure
05-27-2005, 12:41 PM
Oh, you got that kind of law now too. Well, here's how we Finns get around the law: We buy our stuff from outside Finland but inside EU which means mostly either from Verkkokauppa.com's Estonia HQ specially setup for selling cd/dvd-r/rw:s or nierle.de. I suggest that you look into how buying items from abroad could help you and your fellow Swedes.

Thanks. I already buy them from www.wesellcd.com (denmark or germany) so I shouldn't really be moaning. Its just anoying If I run out of dvds and need to get more I have to wait for a new shipment.

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