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View Full Version : Frame by Frame video Player for animators


levius
05-16-2005, 04:46 PM
I've always wanted to be able to play my favorite anime movies and fight scenes from matrix and hong kong flicks frame by frame so I can study the animation http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

The good news is there is free player focused on animation study. We will be able to choose the frame rate of the playback (1-60 frames per second) as well as manualy jump to next frame (2 frames, 3 frames ... 60 frames)

Also the slider will alow you to control the movie in real time acording to the speed and position of your mouse. (most video players just jump to the end position without playing the frames in between)

Right now it will play only avi files and will be released by 3D.sk with free motion samples videos. Here is the screenshot with control list:

http://www.3d.sk/video/help.htm

splintah
05-16-2005, 04:59 PM
quicktime ?

gilley
05-16-2005, 05:54 PM
quicktime ?

That's what I use most of the time when I have a video file I'm referencing for an animation.

BishopLynx
05-16-2005, 08:07 PM
I agree. Quicktime is the best for this in my opinion. it is free...unless you want pro...which is cheap.

Not sure about any other platforms but Windows and Mac in regards to this opinion. so there it is.

Cman
05-16-2005, 08:27 PM
When and where for free player?

Craiger
05-16-2005, 08:47 PM
www.quicktime.com


Its all you need. Media player classic is good too.

Cman
05-16-2005, 11:59 PM
www.quicktime.com (http://www.quicktime.com)


Its all you need. Media player classic is good too.

lol!
I misunderstood.
I thought levius was talking about a free frame-cycler.

DaveW
05-17-2005, 12:36 AM
I use quicktime for this too, but this looks like it has a few things that quicktime lacks.

splintah
05-17-2005, 01:10 AM
maya has also a nice tool for that
called fcheck


also quicktime sometimes is really bad if you want to check out a high compressed file
i guess saving as images could improove the scrubbing

en-gram
05-17-2005, 01:22 AM
lol!
I misunderstood.
I thought levius was talking about a free frame-cycler.

So did I. Actually when he mentioned watching movies, I thought he was talking about being able to open the VOBs on a DVD...and go to town scrubbing. You can do this in VirtualDubMod now...but the audio gets way off sync it seems.

BillB
05-17-2005, 02:25 AM
If only quicktime would tell you which frame you were on, it'd be perfect!
Oh, and play full-screen properly on dual monitor setups - not spread across both screens.

hypercube
05-17-2005, 02:30 AM
If only quicktime would tell you which frame you were on, it'd be perfect!It can, if you hit ctrl-I, or Window->Show Movie Info, you get frame and timecode counters in a window on the side along with the other specs.

Still, as an alternative this sounds useful, especially for some of the weirder avi codecs that QT may not deal with.

BillB
05-17-2005, 03:14 AM
Yeah, I know - trouble is it only shows time and frames, not just frames, and then always tries to use 30fps timecode regardless of the source being 24.

This new player looks to have better options in that regard.

spacefrog
05-17-2005, 06:41 AM
you guys should check out "Media Player Classic"

plays avi,quicktime,realmedia,mpg, wmv and a lot more

DVD support (including subtitles )

settings are stored in an ini file,
is not system-intrusive ( no install ) - just start the exe,

does step by step playing
increase/decrease playback rate
pluginable realtime DirectX9 Shaders ( Deinterlace, etc...)
and a lot more !!

and it's Free & Open Source !!

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=82303&package_id=84358


;-)

Iotrez
05-17-2005, 11:55 AM
If only quicktime would tell you which frame you were on, it'd be perfect!

If you use Maya there's a free script which adds a frame counter to the viewport, so when u do a playblast render it shows up in the quicktime player.

jschleifer
05-17-2005, 04:19 PM
anyone know of a movie player which lets you draw over the image?

I know you can sorta do it with fcheck, but that only loads frames..

Keith Osborn
05-17-2005, 05:21 PM
Found one!!! I've been searching for something like this for some time now Jason - as have you I'm sure. It's a somewhat obscure program called "Project Dogwaffle". It loads avi's and lets you paint on top of them. Demo doesn't allow saves though. Here's the link (http://www.squirreldome.com/cyberop.htm)

jschleifer
05-17-2005, 05:28 PM
holy crap.. have you tried it? how fast is it?

Keith Osborn
05-17-2005, 05:36 PM
I'm playing with it now - very fast, realtime from what I can gather. I can't seem to get the layers working as I'd like however. Without layers, when you erase, it erases not only your stroke but the portion of the avi as well. Still toying with it though.

jschleifer
05-17-2005, 05:38 PM
haha :) "oops!"

keep us uptodate on how it's going.. sounds like a sweeeet tool!

SheepFactory
05-17-2005, 05:41 PM
hey Keith how did you load up a video? (quicktime or windows media) , i cant load up anything.

Keith Osborn
05-17-2005, 05:42 PM
Under the animation menu, you'll see "Load AVI". Not sure how codec friendly it is but I'm opening up divx files just fine.

I don't believe it works with .mov's

SheepFactory
05-17-2005, 05:49 PM
wow what a great software! thanks for the link i'll be using this a lot to try out new ideas on my playblasts.

opus13
05-17-2005, 06:16 PM
Oh, and play full-screen properly on dual monitor setups - not spread across both screens.

just reconfigure your video card drivers to be in 'dual head' or 'dual independent' mode instead of 'stretched desktop' mode, and quicktime does just fine.

SheepFactory
05-17-2005, 07:51 PM
Just so you guys know , you can buy project dogwaffle 2.1 for just $26 until july 4th. Thats a %60 discount from the full price. The link is at the free dl page.

Keith Osborn
05-17-2005, 09:14 PM
Good find Ali - I completely missed that. Heck, that's even in my price range :)

It's a great tool for annotating playblasts. Something a director or supervisor might find useful. Not at all unlike Pixar's Sketch Tool - link (http://preview.millimeter.com/mag/video_tool_time_pixar/)

I still can't get layers working as I'd like. Have you had any luck erasing without destroying the original avi underneath?

SheepFactory
05-17-2005, 09:25 PM
no i havent erased anything yet :) , can you make a brush stroke stay longer then one frame?

Keith Osborn
05-17-2005, 09:28 PM
Nope, haven't been able to do that yet. There's some interesting animation tools that might reveal some neat tricks like that (i.e. brush keyframer, stroke player, etc.).

slaughters
05-17-2005, 09:38 PM
...I still can't get layers working as I'd like. Have you had any luck erasing without destroying the original avi underneath?Dogwaffles creator, Dan Ritchie, occasionally posts here at CGTalk: http://www.cgtalk.com/member.php?u=5068 . Maybe he can answere your question.

jschleifer
05-17-2005, 09:51 PM
this is all super cool, but a bit excessive in terms of a package for just sketching over a movie file. :)

what I'd personally want would be one where you could simply add layers to a movie, and then draw on top of it & tell the drawings how long they would stay up for, and add levels of ghosting.. so you draw on frame 1 of layer 1, and that drawing stays up until you draw on frame 5 of layer 1, then that drawing stays up until you draw on frame 8 of layer 1..

then you can erase those layers.. change the timing of the drawings.. etc.

how cool would that be? :)

Sil3
05-17-2005, 09:55 PM
how cool would that be? :)

Why dont u write an email to the author of the program? The guy is also an artist so im sure he will read your request and think about it :)

Keith Osborn
05-17-2005, 10:02 PM
I know of some guys who are using CTP Pro in a similar fashion. Not having the program myself, I can't vouch for it's features. It's comes in at a hefty $800 however. link (http://www.cratersoftware.com/ctp_pro.html)

Keith Osborn
05-17-2005, 10:11 PM
Dogwaffles creator, Dan Ritchie, occasionally posts here at CGTalk: http://www.cgtalk.com/member.php?u=5068 . Maybe he can answere your question.


Thanks slaughters! I just sent him an e-mail - maybe he'll pop in and enlighten us.

doghat
05-17-2005, 10:45 PM
Hay all. Dan Ritchie, author of PD here.

I'll try to answer some of the questions if I can.

First off, layered animation. No, not at this point. Animation is played from ram for the best performance, and that would need a lot of ram.
You can however composite over sequences of images using the timeline in Pd. You can do quite a lot with the lineline as most of our filters are incorperated into it, and you can keyframe them.

Multiple monitors. From experience, I've been able to work on very large images across multiple monitors without a huge speed problem. I worked on some Imax sized frames for the Borg Invasion, on a 3 ghz pentium system and gforce 5700, or something similar.

loading video. You can load image sequences, avis, or PDs proprietary format. Image sequences can be targa, tiff, jpeg, bmp, png, etc. Well behaved avis can be loaded directly. I've had a few occasions when I needed to resave them first. Virtual dub is a good free tool for that.

>>can you make a brush stroke stay longer then one frame?
You can playback brushtrokes in various ways, like a motion path, or to write out handwriting, but I think what you wanted was a way to annotate a couple of frames. Probably the best way would be swap to the spare buffer "j" and write your anotation, then pick it up "b", swap back, and paste it down over a few frames.
Although, now that I think about it, that might be a neet addition.

staigerman
05-18-2005, 03:17 AM
Found one!!! I've been searching for something like this for some time now Jason - as have you I'm sure. It's a somewhat obscure program called "Project Dogwaffle". It loads avi's and lets you paint on top of them. Demo doesn't allow saves though. Here's the link (http://www.squirreldome.com/cyberop.htm)

You can also paint on it while it's animating.

If you have a custom brush with 2 or more images in it (what we call an animated brush, which could carry a whole AVI animation in itself in the brush), when you paint with the ALT key down over an animation it cycles through the frames of the anima as it paints into it. Keep painting when it reaches the end and you soon get to see a psychedelic chaos :-)


More tutorials and galleries: http://www.thebest3d.com/dogwaffle

BigJay
05-18-2005, 04:42 AM
It's funny you should bring up animation and painting over frames.


I'm just going to bring up a few apps i use that I could use to write in annotations. but they don't allow scrubbing.

1. Flash. Imports almost every video, avi and mov included. layers allows me to write in notes and to key when they appear and when they stop. imported video converts to the speed of the timeline of the flash movie. I discovered this while using it to convert video for, of all things, my PSP... Export options suck but thats where virtual dub comes in. You can also change the fps after the video is in and watch anything in slow mo or normal speed in some cases.

2. Painter. Painter has a way to load video but since i've never done more than that I am not sure how much layers and art can be edited.

3. Mirage. A paint program for video footage. Make a new layer. draw what you want. stretch it out to fit the range of frames you want. Pretty easy.

those are the only ones that spring to mind.

SheepFactory
05-18-2005, 04:57 AM
ah cool painter does it easily. You just create a new layer and whatever you draw on that stays for the whole duration while things you sketch on the canvas (avi) are on a frame by frame basis.

BigJay
05-18-2005, 05:26 AM
After reading the pixar article it reminded me of a tool that anyone with windows should be able to get to

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=1b5ba4f3-c8e1-405f-be61-8a48ba11ca41&displaylang=en

there is a snipping program. Activate it. circle a part of the screen and scribble away. Then save the result as jpg etc. Only for stills but amazing for quick notes on the screen.

It may only be for tablet pcs so someone with regualr xp will need to experiment with it.

staigerman
05-18-2005, 06:27 AM
Under the animation menu, you'll see "Load AVI". Not sure how codec friendly it is but I'm opening up divx files just fine.

I don't believe it works with .mov's

For AVI:

It's pretty friendly with Codecs indeed, I use it with DivX, Xvid, 3vid and tons of others. When you save and you happen to have incompatilities such as 'not a multiple of 4' or not a power of 2' or not a 24-bit color etc then if the codec refuses it all you'll see is an error message saying 'there was an error' or something alike. That's on export. On import I'm not aware of any issues.

Currently an animation doesn't load a per-frame alpha, so if you have 32-bit Indeo 4 with Alpha you're SOL I'm afraid

There is an Alpha channel for the whole project though, so that can lend itself to nice effects for titling with shadow drops or embossing and other things against the alpha.

For Image Sequences:

The default file format for Dogwaffle is Targa. Several other image formats can be saved to, including when saving to image sequence from the Animation menu or from the animated brush submenu (JPG, BMP, TIF, PSD,...)

Upon import, Dogwaffle uses ImageMagick if not native Targa, and can recognize 60+ formats including Gif.

There's also a batch converter in the File menu since v3.1 which converts to those same 60+ formats.


For Quicktime/Mpeg/...

these are not currently available. However.... if you are a programmer with Visual Basic experience, or Delphi/Pascal or standard C with any IDE that's COM enabled you can easily make your own plugins, for free distribution or commercially too. There's a free SDK at http://www.thebest3d.com/dogwaffle/sdk with source code samples and snippets.

It's easy really, I did make a plugin myself for something I always wanted: the ability to reverse an animation without saving to file (you know that trick with reverse file number sequence). See http://www.thebest3d.com/dogwaffle/freebies/reverse_anim - this was done last year for version 2 as a plugin. It is now fully integrated in the program under the Animation>Frames menu. (and runs much faster than when I wrote it).

So, I guess I'm making an official call for programmers with empty time on their hands - make a Quicktime import/export plugin for PD Pro or Dogwaffle 2 (heck it will even run for the free version 1.2 at http://www.thebest3d.com/dogwaffle/free !)

That said, we also do encourage you to look at VirtualDub, AVISynth and other gadgets to convert back and forth. Quicktime Pro too.

I have a few of them listed at www.thebest3d.com/dogwaffle/links

staigerman
05-18-2005, 06:32 AM
Just so you guys know , you can buy project dogwaffle 2.1 for just $26 until july 4th. Thats a %60 discount from the full price. The link is at the free dl page.

let me clarify: the 60% discount is offered on two online stores, Digibuy and Regnow (both part of Digital River) and only for version 2 (which can be updated for free to 2.1b, the latest patch for v2). There's also an upgrade path for v3 from v2.

There's also a free version, 1.2, based on a subset of v2 code. Doesn't have AVI import/export though (but it does have image sequence support). Still, lots of the animation tools are in the commercial versions, and many such improvements were made specifically with v3. Read What's new in http://www.thebest3d.com/dogwaffle/whatsnew

Why the 60% discount? to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the fall of Nazi Germany and the liberation of Europe. now you know .

BigJay
05-18-2005, 06:05 PM
Here is an example I did using a cool action shot I found on big-boys.com and did a trace over in Flash.

I cut the speed to 6fps to slow the action down.

gaiXyn
05-20-2005, 04:38 AM
This is cool, I would be very interested in something like this, I think it's a great idea! Be sure to keep us updated, I would like to get it ASAP

//peaCe -

levius
05-20-2005, 10:08 AM
In my opinion the main feature of 3D.sk animation player is the possibility to set up the frame rate. So lets say you have short movie of person walking, you set up 3 frames per second, check loop and you can study really slow and continues playback of it. :D You can also change the frame rate by slider in realtime without stoping the playback.

http://www.3d.sk/video/help.htm

And yes, it will be free and we are open to suggestions about new features and reference movies we should produce. Right now it supports only AVI and DivX. We are planing to realease it next week. It would be great if you guys can test it and let me know your opinion.

staigerman
05-21-2005, 12:34 AM
Here is an example I did using a cool action shot I found on big-boys.com and did a trace over in Flash.

I cut the speed to 6fps to slow the action down.

I don't see anything here that can't be done with Dogwaffle, even the free version.

staigerman
05-21-2005, 12:36 AM
Note that there's a doggybag #1 or #2 which added AVI files for v1.5 and v1.6 of Dogwaffle, some folks have told me it also works with v1.2 I didn't try, and it's not officially supported, but hey if the code is good it will work.

give it a try and let us know.

www.thebest3d.com/dogwaffle/patches >>> doggybags for v1.x

staigerman
05-21-2005, 12:55 AM
I use quicktime for this too, but this looks like it has a few things that quicktime lacks.

plus in my HO quicktime is dog slow.

I have quicktime pro, what was it, $29? cheap indeed in pricing, and good for some conversions but I like Wax much much better when I need to add audio tracks (!) and special FX. www.debugmode.com

There's also some amount of things I do with AVIsynth and VirtualDub of course.

SheepFactory
05-21-2005, 01:14 AM
In my opinion the main feature of 3D.sk animation player is the possibility to set up the frame rate. So lets say you have short movie of person walking, you set up 3 frames per second, check loop and you can study really slow and continues playback of it. :D You can also change the frame rate by slider in realtime without stoping the playback.

http://www.3d.sk/video/help.htm

And yes, it will be free and we are open to suggestions about new features and reference movies we should produce. Right now it supports only AVI and DivX. We are planing to realease it next week. It would be great if you guys can test it and let me know your opinion.

cool stuff man , let us know when its released.

levius
05-21-2005, 10:23 AM
I don't see anything here that can't be done with Dogwaffle, even the free version.

Going to check it out, thanks for tip :thumbsup:

staigerman
05-21-2005, 07:15 PM
levius[/b]
In my opinion the main feature of 3D.sk animation player is the possibility to set up the frame rate. So lets say you have short movie of person walking, you set up 3 frames per second, check loop and you can study really slow and continues playback of it. :D You can also change the frame rate by slider in realtime without stoping the playback.

http://www.3d.sk/video/help.htm

And yes, it will be free and we are open to suggestions about new features and reference movies we should produce. Right now it supports only AVI and DivX. We are planing to realease it next week. It would be great if you guys can test it and let me know your opinion.


Irfanview can do that too, a slider for playback speed conmtrol on Mpeg, avi,...

www.irfanview.com freeware for home, $10 for commercial

Dogwaffle has preset playback speeds but you can enter the prefered number as well, 100 fps for example

Of course Dogwaffle focuses on the images and so it doesn'ty playback with the sound. You can however double/half or otherwise alter the framecount with blending, and there's a Ghosting with controllable fram,e bnumber qs wlel. Plus you can load an animation in to the brush and paint it over another animation directly or thrlough the brush keyframer, adding motion blur, opacity blend and other tricks.

levius
06-04-2005, 04:04 PM
Ok, the player is out :) Please check it out and let me know your opinion ;)

http://3d.sk/3Dsk_Animation_Player.htm

Be sure to download the samples and check "loop" checkbox

dynafx
06-04-2005, 04:18 PM
:scream:WOW, datz amazing, gonna be of great help for many

THANKS for it

Dutchman
06-04-2005, 08:02 PM
Woooow! Really great stuff, levius! :bounce: I think me and that app will have many happy houres together in the upcoming time! :buttrock:

Thank you for the making of it, and especially more for making it available for free! :) Your such a good dude :twisted: :thumbsup:

slaughters
06-05-2005, 12:28 AM
When I download a file from the web (as an example, one of your sample movies) with FireFox I'm asked if I want to open the file with a program.

If I choose APlayer.exe the file will seem to download, APlayer will launch, but the video file will not load and play.

xscript
06-05-2005, 05:00 PM
Thx levius! That's great news! I always wanted something like that, too. I even tried to make my own (since I couldn't find one), but my programming skils are limited in that direction (in every direction for that matter). Thx!

levius
06-05-2005, 10:09 PM
slaughters: Thanks for bug report, we will check it out. Please open the moevies from player meantime.

dynafx, Dutchman, xscript : I am really glad you like it ;) We are going to add more free movies soon, will let you know. Ant bug reports or suggestions? BTW do you have a favorit movie scene worth playing frakme by frame?

Keith Osborn
06-06-2005, 03:59 AM
Thanks levius for a great player! Any way would could get hotkeys for the frame advance? Just a suggestion.

Dutchman
06-06-2005, 10:53 PM
....I am really glad you like it ;) ....
I'm glad you wrote/made it!!! :thumbsup: :twisted: :buttrock:

About an interesting movie scene: what did you think of the fight/action scene in the Pirates of the Caribbean?! (with the cannon dropping from high, depp going up, and turning around on a cable, after what he slides down on a rope :rolleyes: :bounce:) The choreography there always looks like a bit twisted... Is that 'n idea to put onlin?! :rolleyes: :)

Good luck with your further projects, my friend! ;) :)

Clint66
06-08-2005, 04:21 PM
Nice one!

I agree, this is more useful than Quicktime for an animation study. I'd also like to see frame advance hotkeys, forwards & backwards. Left & Right arrow keys?

Well done.

levius
06-09-2005, 10:16 PM
Hi guys ;)
Thanks a lot for your encouragement.

We have new free samples, this time cute girl with "katana" :) She isn't exactly Kendo
master but its interesting to study the movement anyway. (no nudity this time)
http://www.3d.sk/3Dsk_Animation_Player.htm
Clint66, Keith, slaughters: thanks for the suggestions, we will certainly work on it.

Dutchman: going to check out the scene :) Thanks for tip.

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