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isigraphics
05-14-2005, 03:53 PM
Nintendo Reveals Early Details About Revolution
http://www.nintendo.com/img/hr_406.gif
May 13, 2005
http://www.nintendo.com/img/hr_406.gif
Big things to come in small package

Nintendo, the world leader in video game innovation, stated loud and clear that they are not to be overlooked in the next generation home console race with the revelation of several unique features of the company's next console system, code name Revolution, to key media outlets. According to the early information, Revolution will combine powerful technology and gaming-focused features in Nintendo's smallest home game console yet.



In its final form, Revolution will be about the thickness of three standard DVD cases and only slightly longer. The versatile Revolution will play either horizontally or vertically, allowing the user total flexibility in setting up a gaming session wherever they have a television.



Thanks to Nintendo's hardware development partners IBM and ATI, the small system will be packed with power that will enable it to wow players with its graphics. Nintendo's legions of loyal fans will be happy to learn that Revolution will be backward compatible, playing both Nintendo GameCube 8cm disks along with its own 12cm optical disks in the same self-loading media drive.



In the next generation, the addition of the Internet will be important to all consoles and particularly important to Nintendo. Revolution will be wireless Internet ready out of the box.



There's much more to Revolution that will be revealed over the coming months, but the combination of its compact size, wireless Internet, backward compatibility, quick start-up time and quiet, low-power operation add up to the start of a great game system. Get ready for the Nintendo Revolution in 2006!

source: nintendo.com

Hazdaz
05-14-2005, 06:58 PM
Meh.

Who the hell cares how small a console it - it's still attached to your TV.

Let's see what kind of power it has - it's size means nothing.

agreenster
05-14-2005, 07:42 PM
Yeah, I dont get that?? I dont care if its the size of a buick, I just want it to do stuff that the PS3 or XBox360 cant! I thought "Revolution" had to do with gameplay, not living room decoration.

cmc
05-14-2005, 08:42 PM
Size is an important factor in Japan where space is very limited. It also make it quite portable. Like when you need to carry the whole console to other place easily.

Maybe it also save cost in transporting the shipment and this saving may pass to consumer.

Hazdaz
05-14-2005, 09:02 PM
Size is an important factor in Japan where space is very limited. It also make it quite portable. Like when you need to carry the whole console to other place easily.

Maybe it also save cost in transporting the shipment and this saving may pass to consumer.

I really think you're pulling at strings there.


This is just an announcement from N so they don't get lost and forgetten in all the hyper over the XB360 and weeks before that, the PSP. Seems like most people have written off N as a viable console maker - if that is an unfair prediction or not, we shall see soon enough.

It's actually kinda funnay that their next console is about the size of a DVD case, cuz I saw an animation on another site of a "concept" next-gen Nintendo system that actually would have given XB360 and PS3 a run for it's money mostly cuz of it's innovative design. You wore part of it and it had sensors to let you interact through motion detection - very interesting concept... too bad the real Revolution will probably be nothign like the "concept".

heavyness
05-14-2005, 09:24 PM
Yeah, I dont get that?? I dont care if its the size of a buick, I just want it to do stuff that the PS3 or XBox360 cant! I thought "Revolution" had to do with gameplay, not living room decoration.

if you don't care how big it is, why comment?...

nintendo isn't going to release any good info on a press document, they're going to wait for E3 and do the whole song and dance. out of the systems out now, i like Gamecube's design the best. different, simple, and it worked.

lildragon
05-14-2005, 10:26 PM
I dont care if its the size of a buick,

You say that, but you don't mean it. Imagine a console the weight and size of a 32" tele, you would care. Yeah I know that's an exaggeration, but heck you said buick ;) Size does really play a part especially with all the oversized HDTV's coupled with reciever's DVD/VCR players and whateva else clammering for space in your entertainment unit. Why do you think the 360 is made to stand up are lie flat?

I love the portability and size of the new slim PSTwo.

-lild

Geta-Ve
05-14-2005, 10:30 PM
You say that, but you don't mean it. Imagine a console the weight and size of a 32" tele, you would care. Yeah I know that's an exaggeration, but heck you said buick ;) Size does really play a part especially with all the oversized HDTV's coupled with reciever's DVD/VCR players and whateva else clammering for space in your entertainment unit. Why do you think the 360 is made to stand up are lie flat?

I love the portability and size of the new slim PSTwo.

-lild

back from the dead?!

anyways ya, size is pretty important especially in japan......... (wait for it......) haha Im kidding.

but for consoles its cool that its gonna be small..

Nightez
05-14-2005, 10:55 PM
Meh.

Who the hell cares how small a console it - it's still attached to your TV.

Let's see what kind of power it has - it's size means nothing.
An upgrade in power is standard with every generation of consoles. They dont need to repeat what is well known.

lildragon
05-14-2005, 11:10 PM
back from the dead?!



Heh, everyone seems to be saying that these days :) I'm around almost daily, just not posting like previous years :p

-lild

Geta-Ve
05-14-2005, 11:12 PM
well since you are posting lemme ask you something i been meaning to ask for a few years..... did you make that in your avatar? cuz thats sooo cute.. haha :D

cheers :)

Gamoron
05-15-2005, 12:39 AM
I love the backwards compatibility. Very sweet indeed. I'd really like to hold out for the Revolution. Hopefully the 360's first crop of games are shit. Nintendo needs its fans now more then ever, so they better deliver.


EDIT: I hope they add some unique and original features to their online play, so that I can block out all the annoying pimply teenaged shit heads that squeal their taunts into my ear when I play online.

heavyness
05-15-2005, 02:32 AM
so if both Nintendo and Microsoft deliver with great systems and games, does this leave any room for Sony?

think about, the only person that can hurt Nintendo is Nintendo. if they don't deliver awesome first party games, then they will suffer. doesn't matter how many halos, gran turismos, jak and dexters, metal gear solids the other two sell, Nintendo always can pull one of their flagships out and sell enough to make a profit. look how many people are buying a Gamecube AGAIN for the new Zelda.

and if Microsoft delivers everything they are offering [a full multimedia system, online everything, and enough power to choke a horse] will there be any room for the PS3 next to your tv? with Sony scattering to get the PS3 out this year and the flop of the PSX, is Sony starting to worry?


[i'm not knocking the PS3, i'm buying every system]

ShadowHunter
05-15-2005, 03:27 AM
EDIT: I hope they add some unique and original features to their online play, so that I can block out all the annoying pimply teenaged shit heads that squeal their taunts into my ear when I play online. Quoted for significance :applause:

iocomposer
05-15-2005, 04:11 PM
so if both Nintendo and Microsoft deliver with great systems and games, does this leave any room for Sony?

think about, the only person that can hurt Nintendo is Nintendo. if they don't deliver awesome first party games, then they will suffer. doesn't matter how many halos, gran turismos, jak and dexters, metal gear solids the other two sell, Nintendo always can pull one of their flagships out and sell enough to make a profit. look how many people are buying a Gamecube AGAIN for the new Zelda.

and if Microsoft delivers everything they are offering [a full multimedia system, online everything, and enough power to choke a horse] will there be any room for the PS3 next to your tv? with Sony scattering to get the PS3 out this year and the flop of the PSX, is Sony starting to worry?


I'm sure I'm misunderstanding your question. Sony is the market leader over MS and N by a LARGE margin.

CGmonkey
05-15-2005, 04:21 PM
where's the revolution?

Moonblood
05-15-2005, 04:28 PM
n1

i asked me the same

isigraphics
05-15-2005, 04:43 PM
here are two concept logo sketches for the nintendo revolution. found them on www.joystiq.com. they cant say if they are real.

http://img158.echo.cx/img158/2213/36239534275515060uv.jpghttp://img158.echo.cx/img158/51/nintendorevolutionprovalogo27k.jpg

i must say that if have seen much nicer logos than this two... the "r" looks a bit weird in my opinion. hopefully these are fakes

itsallgoode9
05-15-2005, 04:59 PM
dear god i hope those logos are fake

archerx
05-15-2005, 06:24 PM
are we sure they're going to stay with "Revolution" as the name ? they always change the names.... ultra64... dolphin...

roto baggins
05-15-2005, 06:42 PM
now, now, now kids. e3 is this week and i'm sure nintendo will be a show stopper as always

PhilOsirus
05-15-2005, 07:11 PM
So fake, just like the fake XBOX 360 logo, everyone i smaking fake crap in hopes of seeing their graphic design stuff appear all over the net:p

aquaglow
05-15-2005, 07:16 PM
dear god i hope those logos are fake

Seriously, who cares what logo they choose to represent their console? It's all about the games which are released for it, these are games consoles, not ornaments.

Geta-Ve
05-15-2005, 07:26 PM
now, now, now kids. e3 is this week and i'm sure nintendo will be a show stopper as always

pardon my ignorance but isn't it Sony that is the show stopper ;) (friendly competition haha)

:scream:

heavyness
05-15-2005, 08:11 PM
pardon my ignorance but isn't it Sony that is the show stopper ;) (friendly competition haha)

MS and Sony have had their show stopping moments [Halo 2, MGS 2], but with the huge number of Nintendo fans out there, Nintendo always seems to make a huge splash with little effort. remember the short clip of the mature Link fighting Gannon from E32003? turns into Wind Waker but that clip was all over the place. people still talk about the Mario 128 demo.

with the Xbox360 shown already and a questionable PS3 showing, Nintendo might be able to steal the show. but then again, those 360 games look nice and i'm sure MS has some secret games no one knows about...

poly-phobic
05-15-2005, 08:26 PM
with what could nintendo possibly stop the show...
"mario party REVOLUTION"
"Zelda revo-waker""
"donkey-revo-drums-kong"
"kirby-adven-lution"

but seriously, Nintendo better have some serious hardware backed with some serious games.
otherwise their fate will follow the Sega paradigm.
hopefully, for their own sake, that will be the case. let them focus on games that will break the monotony of running and shooting monsters, or the same sports games over and over, or more disastrous movie games license.

heavyness
05-15-2005, 08:27 PM
hopefully, for their own sake, that will be the case. let them focus on games that will break the monotony of running and shooting monsters, or the same sports games over and over, or more disastrous movie games license.

no, no, thats EA

SheepFactory
05-15-2005, 08:39 PM
with what could nintendo possibly stop the show...
"mario party REVOLUTION"
"Zelda revo-waker""
"donkey-revo-drums-kong"
"kirby-adven-lution"

but seriously, Nintendo better have some serious hardware backed with some serious games.
otherwise their fate will follow the Sega paradigm.
hopefully, for their own sake, that will be the case. let them focus on games that will break the monotony of running and shooting monsters, or the same sports games over and over, or more disastrous movie games license.


yea you guys have been saying the same thing for the last five years and it seems they are doing just fine.

DevilHacker
05-15-2005, 08:48 PM
now, now, now kids. e3 is this week and i'm sure nintendo will be a show stopper as always
pardon my ignorance but isn't it Sony that is the show stopper ;) (friendly competition haha)
:scream:Ha Ha, I always thought Microsoft ruled the floor... :D
But lets face it, Microsofts system is a BEAST, and will shine over all the competitors of the next-gen arena!
Ha Ha, just some "friendly competition" from my side.

poly-phobic
05-15-2005, 08:55 PM
yea you guys have been saying the same thing for the last five years what do u mean by "you guys" who are we?
i hope you are not implying what you inevitably are implying...
by no means im a fan boy, or much of a gamer, or have any platform preference.
im not saying these games are bad games, just not show stoppers.

and it seems they are doing just fine.

if by fine you mean they are selling more than enough and keeping their targeted audience entertained, then yes, yes they are doing fine.

what was nintendo's last good peice of hardware? what was nintendo last good game.
nintendo has great games; which goes to show you its not only a hardware thing, good games matter.
however, with solid online options and competition, hardrives and all the multimedia hoo-haa sony and microsoft are promising, nintendo better have a little more than semi-innovative games up its sleeves.
-------


moving along....

Recursive
05-15-2005, 09:32 PM
what do u mean by "you guys" who are we?
i hope you are not implying what you inevitably are implying...
by no means im a fan boy, or much of a gamer, or have any platform preference.
im not saying these games are bad games, just not show stoppers.



if by fine you mean they are selling more than enough and keeping their targeted audience entertained, then yes, yes they are doing fine.

what was nintendo's last good peice of hardware? what was nintendo last good game.
nintendo has great games; which goes to show you its not only a hardware thing, good games matter.
however, with solid online options and competition, hardrives and all the multimedia hoo-haa sony and microsoft are promising, nintendo better have a little more than semi-innovative games up its sleeves.
-------


moving along....

Harddrive: Dont want it
Multimedia hoo-haa: Already have a multimedia hoo-haa system
Online options: I'm not a 14 year old counterstrike player. Dont need to take my metroid or pikmin online.

Give me good games, nothing more, nothing less.

archerx
05-15-2005, 10:35 PM
nintendo is going to have power at E3 even with a gamecube game (zelda)

plus they'll have revolution as the icing on the cake, plus revo will have online play and nintendo is not lacking in good games

gamecube had:

Metroid prime
RE4
Eternal Darkness
Smash bro's
Zelda
F-Zero
Wave Race
Pikmin
the cooler Soul Caliber
Mario
Star fox
Super monkey ball
Baten Kaitos
Tales of Sypmhonia
Metal Gear
Harvest moon

plus many more exlusive games, so who ever says the gamecube has very few good games is sadly misinformed!

harlan_hill
05-15-2005, 10:48 PM
You know, Pikmin really was a good game. When I first bought it, I was afraid it was going to be extremely cheesy/childish, but once I started playing, I couldn't put it down til I finished. :)

iocomposer
05-15-2005, 11:35 PM
Ha Ha, I always thought Microsoft ruled the floor... :D
But lets face it, Microsofts system is a BEAST, and will shine over all the competitors of the next-gen arena!


How can you assume this? We now know everything about the XBox360, but know pretty much nothing about the PS3 or Revo. I personally know for a fact that some of the gameplay you'll be seeing at E3 from the PS3 is superior than when we've seen so far from the XBox 360. I just worked on a sequence that will be shown at E3 on the PS3 and I simply couldn't believe it...I'm still dumbfounded by it. Games on the PS3 no longer look like games anymore, well at least this one doesn't. More like prerendered movies. I'm currently far more excited about the PS3 than I am the XBox360. Though, I will probably end up buying both :)

EpShot
05-15-2005, 11:43 PM
i really think the differances between the consoles is going to matter a bit less in this console battle. With so much detail its going ot put a huge strain on the art department to actualy 'use' the power. Maybe this is more fo rthe next gen. sinc ethe power here can mena more simplistic things, like more enemies cars etc. and physics. but mroe and more, even if one system is 30% more powerful, you won't see it as much, unless you really can use it to the extreme, like with the unreal 3 engine, cause a lot of other screen shots don't even come close. not because of the power, but because the power isn't even taken advantage of.

ben_o
05-16-2005, 12:06 AM
How can you assume this? We now know everything about the XBox360, but know pretty much nothing about the PS3 or Revo. I personally know for a fact that some of the gameplay you'll be seeing at E3 from the PS3 is superior than when we've seen so far from the XBox 360. I just worked on a sequence that will be shown at E3 on the PS3 and I simply couldn't believe it...I'm still dumbfounded by it. Games on the PS3 no longer look like games anymore, well at least this one doesn't. More like prerendered movies. I'm currently far more excited about the PS3 than I am the XBox360. Though, I will probably end up buying both :)

Adding my $0.02...

About the Xbox being an absolute beast... the Nintendo revolution is currently rumoured to use FOUR 2.5GHz G5 Cores...

Ben

Hazdaz
05-16-2005, 12:44 AM
Adding my $0.02...

About the Xbox being an absolute beast... the Nintendo revolution is currently rumoured to use FOUR 2.5GHz G5 Cores...

Ben

Not that you can directly compare processors like this... BUT, just for fun...
XB360........ 3.2Gghz x 3 = 9.6Ghz theoretical speed
Revolution... 2.5Ghz x 4 = 10Ghz theoretical speed.

Then factor in that the more processors you have the more overhead you have, and that means that those 2 systems are basically tied. BUT ofcourse the chip that MS is gonna use is definitly not going to be the same chip that N is gonna use (even if they are semi-closely related), so any real conparisons between their clock speeds is kind of pointless.

Anyways, on that note, is Nintendo supposed to actually release specs for it's system at this years E3 or is that just what everyone is hoping for????

archerx
05-16-2005, 02:36 AM
i wondering how thats going to fit in the case they plan on making.... 4cpu's ! can i use that to heat my home ? but nintendo has magic they'll figure it out.... maybe they have blackholes in them or something and thats what makes it revolutionary...

Rob.Geddes
05-17-2005, 07:29 PM
Adding my $0.02...

About the Xbox being an absolute beast... the Nintendo revolution is currently rumoured to use FOUR 2.5GHz G5 Cores...

Ben

I'm genuinely curious...can i ask where this rumour is coming from?

SPIDER2544
05-17-2005, 09:40 PM
Adding my $0.02...

About the Xbox being an absolute beast... the Nintendo revolution is currently rumoured to use FOUR 2.5GHz G5 Cores...

Ben

i doubt the system will be that strong
ign noted that revolution is only about 3 times stronger than game cube, and at the GDC nintendo constantly pushed that graphics no longer matter, and that realistic graphics were already atainable in the current generation.
compare that with the xbox 360 wich is about 15 times stronger than the last xbox pumping about 1.0 Tflops, or with the ps3 which was about 35 times stronger than the ps2 pushing about 2.0 Tflops

no doubt about it, after watching demos, and reading the current specs from microsoft, and sony, sony has got the stronger system.

revolution right now only has going for it, small size (some people might dig that), the ability to download any nintendo game ever made, and that it has free online other than that we have no clue what its capable of right now, odds are thats all nintendo is going to say. the company is notorius for being tight liped, and doesnt understand the power of hype with generating word of mouth advertising, and press

t-man152
05-17-2005, 10:02 PM
The Nintendo Press conference was very dissapointing. its cool that it can play old Nintendo games but I have those games in my atic I dont want to pay even 3 dollars for them. they kept on talking about gameplay is what makes the revolution so great but they didnt show us this "revolutionairy" controller they have. they gave very limited unimpressive stats and then showed some games that didnt seem all that original. I have a fealing this Revolution thing along with the Game Boy Mini is going to flop badly.

the next console war will be Sony vs Microsoft fighting for your living room and Sony Vs Nintendo fighting for your pocket.

I was trying to defend Nintendo telling people dont get too excited over PS3 and Xbox 360 because Nintendo is going to blow your mind. and Nintendo gave me nothing to work with. non of the titles seemed really exciting.

Hazdaz
05-17-2005, 10:48 PM
I find it funnay that Nintendo is pimping out the fact that you can play old Nintendo games on this new console.... well not only can you already play most of the better ones through emmulation on almost any system out now (such as PCs and PDA and others), but knowing the way that Nintendo usually works, they will probably be charging a premium to play OLD games that you can now get for free (or near free). Lame.

I seriously think this is the end of Nintendo as we know it... the company itself isn't going away, but I foresee some major reailignment at the company within the next 2 years.

Gamoron
05-17-2005, 11:20 PM
The Nintendo Press conference was very dissapointing. its cool that it can play old Nintendo games but I have those games in my atic I dont want to pay even 3 dollars for them. they kept on talking about gameplay is what makes the revolution so great but they didnt show us this "revolutionairy" controller they have. they gave very limited unimpressive stats and then showed some games that didnt seem all that original. I have a fealing this Revolution thing along with the Game Boy Mini is going to flop badly.

the next console war will be Sony vs Microsoft fighting for your living room and Sony Vs Nintendo fighting for your pocket.

I was trying to defend Nintendo telling people dont get too excited over PS3 and Xbox 360 because Nintendo is going to blow your mind. and Nintendo gave me nothing to work with. non of the titles seemed really exciting.

That is upsetting news. I was hoping to look at the conference, but I guess I'll pass. I guess maybe they really are going to screw this chance up.

baaah888
05-17-2005, 11:41 PM
Sorry but i fail to see what nintendo did wrong in this press confrence, they announced a new console and showed some damn fine things like zelda.

If anyhting i want to know what nintendo are doing to keep dev cost down like they say, and the primary thing on my list to see in the next few days is now "the revolutions controller" i can't wait.

Im reading some peoples comments in this thread and saying nintendos dead is laughable, everyone said that with the N64 and the Cube, yet nintendo posted massive profits all the way through these era's.

Nintendo's consoles may not be as powerful as microsoft or sony but on thing you can be damn sure about is they understand what gameplay is the most important thing.

Also you can be damn sure nintendo's console will retail for a cheap price yet they will make a profit on the console unlike microsoft who will probably make a $300 loss on each console or something insane like that.

People need to realise the market is big enough for 3 consoles. people will buy all the consoles, and people will be brand loyal. its not anyhting new, i can't see nintendo bowing out of consoles for a long time, and if you see what nintendo have done for the games industry in turn of innovation.you shouldn't wish that they just become games developers.

Hazdaz
05-18-2005, 12:14 AM
Sorry but i fail to see what nintendo did wrong in this press confrence, they announced a new console and showed some damn fine things like zelda.

If anyhting i want to know what nintendo are doing to keep dev cost down like they say, and the primary thing on my list to see in the next few days is now "the revolutions controller" i can't wait.

Im reading some peoples comments in this thread and saying nintendos dead is laughable, everyone said that with the N64 and the Cube, yet nintendo posted massive profits all the way through these era's.

Nintendo's consoles may not be as powerful as microsoft or sony but on thing you can be damn sure about is they understand what gameplay is the most important thing.

Also you can be damn sure nintendo's console will retail for a cheap price yet they will make a profit on the console unlike microsoft who will probably make a $300 loss on each console or something insane like that.

People need to realise the market is big enough for 3 consoles. people will buy all the consoles, and people will be brand loyal. its not anyhting new, i can't see nintendo bowing out of consoles for a long time, and if you see what nintendo have done for the games industry in turn of innovation.you shouldn't wish that they just become games developers.

Nintendo's cash cow has always been (well, atelast for a long, long time) the portable market - in the form of GameBoy... a segment where they didn't have any real competition - at all. Now, Nintendo has missed being the top home console for atleast 2 generations... and will most definitly have teh same fate thsi time around, however it's once sacred market of mobile gaming is seeing competition in the form of the PS which is much more powerful.

The reason that Nintendo has been still able to eek out profits basically has been cuz most of the games made for it's home system, have been written by themselves - so they keep all the money umongst themselves. I think that with the XB360 making more and more inroads into getting a lot of strong 3rd party support (even from some Japanese developers), Nintendo is gonna get squeezed. Not that I want Nintendo as a company to go away - and I am sure that it won't - but as a home console maker, it's days just might be numbered. Even all the fanboys might not be able to keep them going.

Ofcouse only time will tell.

Bonedaddy
05-18-2005, 01:06 AM
Seems to me that the only one that cares about games and gamers of the big 3 is Nintendo.

Xbox and PS3 look like a nightmare to make games for, and really only promise the same ol, same ol, as far as I can tell. Just more expensive and longer to make.

I hope Nintendo opens up its online catalog of games, so that indie developers can put their stuff on there.

lastchild7
05-18-2005, 01:11 AM
Seems to me that the only one that cares about games and gamers of the big 3 is Nintendo.

Xbox and PS3 look like a nightmare to make games for, and really only promise the same ol, same ol, as far as I can tell. Just more expensive and longer to make.

I hope Nintendo opens up its online catalog of games, so that indie developers can put their stuff on there.

yes nintendo care about the industry sony microsoft want only to make money, this is what most people misunderstand.

-Vormav-
05-18-2005, 01:13 AM
It's cool and all that Nintendo still likes to focus on gameplay, while everyone else is out going nuts over graphics. But really, the general public demands those high-end graphics. It's sad, but that's the way it is.

I'm with Hazdaz on this one. Nintendo won't be gone for a long time, and they're certainly not about to duck out of the portable market (Nintendo's most profitable venture), but I wouldn't be surprised to see them jumping ship with the mainstream console market after this one.
I could easily see them becoming just a game develpment/portable console company.

itsallgoode9
05-18-2005, 01:27 AM
Seems to me that the only one that cares about games and gamers of the big 3 is Nintendo.

Xbox and PS3 look like a nightmare to make games for, and really only promise the same ol, same ol, as far as I can tell. Just more expensive and longer to make.

I hope Nintendo opens up its online catalog of games, so that indie developers can put their stuff on there.

You know that's what I always thought, but I have begun not to think that really. They do a very good job of making it look like that. Anymore they just create the same sequals to the same games over and over and over again and never try to stick out thier neck and innovate much anymore. I really hate to say it but in my opinion is starting to head towards that of EA in terms of creating basically the same game every single year with not alot chage. We don't need 7 mario partys. We don't need a mario sports game for EVERY FRIGGIN SPORT. Mario Sunshine is basically the same game as mario 64 only not as good. 2 donkey kongas in a year...common. They are beating thier franchises to deat. Look at the way they are talking making games for revolution. Cheaper to make, faster and simpler to produce. In the end it's cheaper for them to make and produce a game and I think that's more the reason why they are going the way they are for the revolution and not to change the industry.

Nathellion
05-18-2005, 01:58 AM
yes nintendo care about the industry sony microsoft want only to make money, this is what most people misunderstand.

The funny thing here being that the only reason there is an industry for Nintendo to supposedly care about is the money that said industry turns out in abundance.

And btw, I read that Revolution is only about 3 times more powerful than the 'Cube. So much for their touted revolutionary thinking.

This post probably sounds really cynical. The fact is I'm kind of sick of the pretentious idea that Nintendo is somehow doing something different or that they're innovators and they have something special that the other guys have somehow lost. They're selling games and consoles like everyone else.

baaah888
05-18-2005, 02:03 AM
ive been through the entire nintendo history, and every single generation they innovated with some product or other, the gamecube may have been the only console that didn't in my eyes.

nes D-pad
snes - shoulder pads
n64 - analoug stick
Gameboy DS dual screen the posibilities for this console are there to be used, the PSP is nothing more than a GBA on speed while the DS is a move forward.

i could list more, but i dont feel the need, without nintendo in the market the only advance's to the hardware each year would be "its faster better graphics"

the reason nintendo always change their controllers is for the simple reason of innovation. if you keep the same controllers then expect the same games as the last platform but with new graphics.

I think nintendo will be 3rd place, i don't deny that will happen unless something massive happens that draws the mainstream into the worlds of nintendo. But 3rd place these days is still more than enough to survive when accumilated on top of handheld sales.

Nintendo posted predicted yearly profits recently of 74bil yen thats about 750million dollars, sure its no microsoft profits, but considering they dont have a cash caw called windows and they dont have other buisnesses like TV's and electronics that profit is solely from game related products, and for a company thats "on its last legs" as some seem to think, sega survived for 4 years making losses of $100mil a year so if nintendo are smart that profit and the profit from the pokomon years is stashed up nice and ready. You'd be surprised at how well off nintendo are considering their market share.

baaah888
05-18-2005, 02:09 AM
The funny thing here being that the only reason there is an industry for Nintendo to supposedly care about is the money that said industry turns out in abundance.

And btw, I read that Revolution is only about 3 times more powerful than the 'Cube. So much for their touted revolutionary thinking.


More power isn't revolution, revolution is "change" nintendo still have not laid down their cards, you don't know if they're bluffing, or if they got an ace high fluch in their hand. (sorry for the poker refrences but i think im addicted :))

As for the only reason theres an industry for nintendo to care about, yeah true but nintendo built that industy with sega, and then sony over took it. its like car's ford and GM were the big dogs now toyota and honda are taking that position in the markets around the world. things change, people who change with the time survive those that dont fail.

rakmaya
05-18-2005, 02:21 AM
Seems to me that the only one that cares about games and gamers of the big 3 is Nintendo.

Xbox and PS3 look like a nightmare to make games for, and really only promise the same ol, same ol, as far as I can tell. Just more expensive and longer to make.

I hope Nintendo opens up its online catalog of games, so that indie developers can put their stuff on there.

Having programmed on GC and XBOX I can say that GC is one fun system to program on. Your claim that it is harder to develop on system doesn't make any sense to today's standard.

If you want more graphics and better gameplay, then that mean developers needs to spend quality spend with the system. It is even the case of GC/XBX/PS2 and all next generation system. Any one will tell you that art work creation for the next generation system takes twice as much time than previous generation. The reason for these are obvious. These are not because of the system is harder to program or anything else. The core and the architecture programming curve is the same as it was when Playstation 2 and GC was introduced. The architecture difference had placed developers similar position before when they went from one system to another.

System Power is a major factor in delivering gameplay. Many people who says graphics doesn't matter doesn't realize that it needs power to pull of better AI, Dynamics, realistic gameplay features such as environmental effects, expressions, side games etc... Most of the gameplay features are not directly related to graphics but it is directly related to the system's overal power in executing those features. It takes more to create more of what gamers expect.

More than anything happened in the previous generation, since the development is so costly, it is more necessary to pull 3rd party developers into the console from the beginning. So don't underestimate the effect of CPU/GPU in the next generation system. It drives the gameplay which intern drives the games. This is whether you like it or not.

Nathellion
05-18-2005, 02:24 AM
More power isn't revolution

I disagree. More power can allow for destructible environments, better AI, better graphics (of course), larger and more open levels, environments featuring higher interactivity and immersion, better physics which contributes to the previous factor, better animation, more complicated scripted scenarios, etc. The kind of power the other two contenders are bringing to the table can allow for lots of innovation imo.

Sp3ctre
05-18-2005, 02:25 AM
I don't see what the big deal about controllers is. personally, I hated both N64 and Cube controllers. XB's first controller sucked, but they fixed that and Sony had a good one from the start so they've stuck with it.

Who cares about graphics when most people are plugging their sub-PC level processing power consoles into a crappy resolution TV. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a PC junkie by any stretch, I've got all 3 consoles out now and I plan to pick up all three next gen ones as time and money allows.

MS is pretty much duplicating what they had while fixing some mistakes and making new ones (not backward compatible, if I'm correct). Sony, I don't know about and I hope Nintendo does something really incredible, and yes, they do need to come up with better games, especially for mario, and DK, Zelda has been fairly original with storylines

-Vormav-
05-18-2005, 02:25 AM
As for the only reason theres an industry for nintendo to care about, yeah true but nintendo built that industy with sega, and then sony over took it. its like car's ford and GM were the big dogs now toyota and honda are taking that position in the markets around the world. things change, people who change with the time survive those that dont fail.

I'm pretty sure that the point Nathellion was making is that Nintendo cares about making money just as much as Sony and MS.
Just a hunch though. I have this nasty habit of reading things wrong. :rolleyes:

and yes, they do need to come up with better games, especially for mario, and DK, Zelda has been fairly original with storylines
I may be alone in thinking this, but in my eyes, coming up with "better games" means coming up with new games, instead of rehashing the same old concepts with the same old characters, a practice which has unfortunately become very rampant in the industry (They're doing an RE5 now? Do people really still give a damn about RE?). There could be so much more room for innovation if Nintendo wasn't still looking for every way that they can milk more money out of Mario, Donkey Kong, and their other past successes.
:shrug:

lovisx
05-18-2005, 02:31 AM
I'm just happy there's so much interest in video games. Everything is way more then doubling in power. I'm kinda happy after this E3 that huge corporations are willing to throw so much money at their consoles. I'm just sad that it seems nintendo has been asleep these past five years.

Once we see the controller and some screens we'll know for sure. But I predict Revolution will be no better then current pc games, and its controller will be easily copied.

I've read rumours that it will be a bunch of 2.5 gig processors. IGN usually doesn't lie, and it has if revolution is that powerful.

Better proccessing power furthers the game experience. You get better physics, better simulation, better ai, better atmosphere. The game becomes more immersive. Of course tetris is a good game, but lets face it the whole point of updating consoles is to be able to have more power to do more complicated stuff. If not for that, then just stick with your old console and keep creating new peripherals. That's why reluctantly I'm praising Sony and Microsoft for kicking things up way past expectations and using hardware that is truly next gen, and will allow game makers much more freedom with content. Peripherals will come an go.


sorry nathallion it looks I've duplicated your post word for word.

itsallgoode9
05-18-2005, 02:38 AM
I may be alone in thinking this, but in my eyes, coming up with "better games" means coming up with new games, instead of rehashing the same old concepts with the same old characters, a practice which has unfortunately become very rampant in the industry (They're doing an RE5 now? Do people really still give a damn about RE?). There could be so much more room for innovation if Nintendo wasn't still looking for every way that they can milk more money out of Mario, Donkey Kong, and their other past successes.
:shrug:

Agreed......well except for the RE comment, but that's just cause i'm a huge fan. I guess it's not really all thier fault. I said this before and I still think it's true, that it's closed minded casual gamers that make it near impossible for companys to make a "different" game. Because of this it makes it really hard to do somthing different and make money off of it.

mlaoxve
05-18-2005, 02:57 AM
Some earlier people said that sony only cared about money..

Sony cares about money
Nintendo cares about money
Xbox cares about money

All three of those consoles also care about the games.

Sony was obviously the one in this generation who created the most top titles, they still give out top titles activly. Europe and america has lots of game to look forward to on their PS2.

Xbox sucked in the begining, releasing few top games. Tho they woke up and pumped out alot of cool titles the following years, but right now they seem to be kind of dead and got few good games planned for release.

Nintendo was obviously the worst console of the three being closely behind the xbox on games. They have a decent release of top games the last year of the gamecube tho.

Sony won the last "battle" followed by xbox and then gamecube. Right now i'm waiting for PS2 titles and GC titles. Nothing at all for my xbox. And because of that i value my GC higher than my xbox at the moment.

That means with the current release of the ps3 info, i can easily say its the console i'm going to get. Because i trust in sony to procduce lots of good games. The xbox360 might have good graphics, but i wont buy it directly because im afraid they might not go in the right direction.

new nintendo console? A big question mark.

novadude
05-18-2005, 03:08 AM
right now they seem to be kind of dead

What do you want when the next generation of their console is being released in six months? Developers are making games for the new console now, not the old one. The same thing will happen with Sony and Nintendo, just as it has when every new generation console is imminent.

noisewar
05-18-2005, 03:08 AM
Smash Bros.

Online.

At launch.

'nuff said

mlaoxve
05-18-2005, 03:08 AM
Seems to me that the only one that cares about games and gamers of the big 3 is Nintendo.

Xbox and PS3 look like a nightmare to make games for, and really only promise the same ol, same ol, as far as I can tell. Just more expensive and longer to make.

I hope Nintendo opens up its online catalog of games, so that indie developers can put their stuff on there.

Epic said it was very very easy to develop games for the ps3. But should i think he lied? Well i dont know... But i'm sure it's better to create games for than the ps2 obviously. But will xbox360 be as good? We wont know in a while so dont say that they will be bad to develop for.

mlaoxve
05-18-2005, 03:19 AM
What do you want when the next generation of their console is being released in six months? Developers are making games for the new console now, not the old one. The same thing will happen with Sony and Nintendo, just as it has when every new generation console is imminent.

Are you a console gamer? Well if you were you know that you just dont abandon your old console. You run to the finishing line because alot of people want new games because they might not directly buy the new consoles and want to wait and observe. And its more correctly to say that new generation will be released in 6months plus.

Are you a graphics junkie? I will still play lots of ps2 games when the ps3 is released. Same with GC but not xbox because i've played most of theirs already and they got no more coming.

And Xbox2 has been half dead the last 4months already, that is not acceptable. They died befor they released the xbox360 information. That got me kind of angry because i bought my xbox only a year ago. And then suddenly they kill their game releases and then they say that they will release a new console in around 6 months.

t-man152
05-18-2005, 03:42 AM
. Same with GC but not xbox because i've played most of theirs already and they got no more coming.

And Xbox2 has been half dead the last 4months already, that is not acceptable. They died befor they released the xbox360 information. That got me kind of angry because i bought my xbox only a year ago. And then suddenly they kill their game releases and then they say that they will release a new console in around 6 months.

I dont know where you got this information from since in their Press Conference they anounced that this year they will have over 200 games released and even more in 2006.

http://xbox.ign.com/e3/2005/games/

edit: maybe if the game developers slowed down in the last month or so was to get ready for E3 or maybe they wanted to show their game at E3 to get more publicity than normal or so that their games wouldnt be forgoten about as soon as E3 hit with the hundreds of games there.

NanoGator
05-18-2005, 04:20 AM
Hrumph. I'm still stuck on the 2-3 times as powerful as the GameCube comment. On the other hand, I'm disappointed with the XBOX 360. From the screens I've seen so far, the XBOX 360 looks like XBOX games with shadows. 10-15 times as powerful? Eh.. I dunno. Maybe mathematically, but graphic wise so far it looks 2 or 3x... Maybe that's what they meant, I dunno.

I desperately want to see a screen shot from a Revolution game before I get too nitpicky.

ExKArt
05-18-2005, 04:51 AM
I didn't see if anyone posted a picture, but here is a link

http://www.nintendo.com/newsimagelarge?articleid=5aa8631e-d4a0-45d9-a88c-e5931b807091&currentNo=0&page=

by far the nicest looking and smallest of the three

Renderman_XSI
05-18-2005, 05:58 AM
Not that you can directly compare processors like this... BUT, just for fun...
XB360........ 3.2Gghz x 3 = 9.6Ghz theoretical speed
Revolution... 2.5Ghz x 4 = 10Ghz theoretical speed.

Then factor in that the more processors you have the more overhead you have, and that means that those 2 systems are basically tied. BUT ofcourse the chip that MS is gonna use is definitly not going to be the same chip that N is gonna use (even if they are semi-closely related), so any real conparisons between their clock speeds is kind of pointless.

Anyways, on that note, is Nintendo supposed to actually release specs for it's system at this years E3 or is that just what everyone is hoping for????

Theres no way, you can reach 9.6 GHz with 3.2 GHz tricore, thats not even feasible or theoretically possible. Its still 3.2 GHZ. If Revolution is 2.5 GHZ with 4 core, it doesnt make it 10 GHZ, thats not how multicore work. By your logic, Cell would be the fastest CPU since it has 7-8 core active..but it doesnt work that way, its still 3.2 GHZ.

Just_David
05-18-2005, 07:32 AM
Originally Posted by Hazdaz
Not that you can directly compare processors like this... BUT, just for fun...
XB360........ 3.2Gghz x 3 = 9.6Ghz theoretical speed
Revolution... 2.5Ghz x 4 = 10Ghz theoretical speed.

LMAO.. :banghead:

mlaoxve
05-18-2005, 08:19 AM
I dont know where you got this information from since in their Press Conference they anounced that this year they will have over 200 games released and even more in 2006.

http://xbox.ign.com/e3/2005/games/

edit: maybe if the game developers slowed down in the last month or so was to get ready for E3 or maybe they wanted to show their game at E3 to get more publicity than normal or so that their games wouldnt be forgoten about as soon as E3 hit with the hundreds of games there.

It was my own personal opinion of the future Xbox releases, i dont think they have many top games left. Maybe one more big one. I think they mainly release mediocre titles that amuse you for around 3hours with rather "ok xbox Live gameplay" but with zero "heart". It's not a game you will recall in a few years and go "awesome game i'll replay it" Only games i really really liked on xbox was halo1, kotor 1/2 and ninja gaiden, and a few more that was nearly as good. That's why i think xbox is dead.

Nintendo has big games like zelda to release, and ps2 has FF12, Dragon Quest 8, Grandia 3 thats only a few from square enix, another tales of game will also be released by namco.

This post obviously made me look like a fanboy, I am. But i have all the consoles and i've tried lots of games and this is just a hardcore gamers view of the console-gaming market.

Tonedef
05-18-2005, 09:47 AM
Theres no way, you can reach 9.6 GHz with 3.2 GHz tricore, thats not even feasible or theoretically possible. Its still 3.2 GHZ. If Revolution is 2.5 GHZ with 4 core, it doesnt make it 10 GHZ, thats not how multicore work. By your logic, Cell would be the fastest CPU since it has 7-8 core active..but it doesnt work that way, its still 3.2 GHZ.

not impossible, just VERY hard! If the processes are done/set-up correctly then it is possible.

Moonblood
05-18-2005, 11:24 AM
no because there is allwayse some overhead

Hazdaz
05-18-2005, 11:43 AM
Theres no way, you can reach 9.6 GHz with 3.2 GHz tricore, thats not even feasible or theoretically possible. Its still 3.2 GHZ. If Revolution is 2.5 GHZ with 4 core, it doesnt make it 10 GHZ, thats not how multicore work. By your logic, Cell would be the fastest CPU since it has 7-8 core active..but it doesnt work that way, its still 3.2 GHZ.

Reading comprehension much?

I guess you missed the part where I wrote:
"Not that you can directly compare processors like this... BUT, just for fun..."
AND
" XB360........ 3.2Gghz x 3 = 9.6Ghz theoretical speed
Revolution... 2.5Ghz x 4 = 10Ghz theoretical speed."
AND
"so any real comparisons between their clock speeds is kind of pointless."

Should I have put all disclaimers in flashing red perchance? :rolleyes:
I specifically said it was "just for fun"... BUT having said that, THREE 3.2 GHz processors do theoretically have the power of a single ~9.6Ghz processor (of the same processor family)... not that you would ever achieve that kind of data throughput, but however much work can be completely by the one chip, multiply it by roughly 3.

My dual processor Xeon PC would theoretically be TWICE as fast as the same speed single processor PC. Ofcourse it never is cuz of overhead and such, but a roughly 1.8 speed increase is not out of the ordinary during operations that take advantage of that 2nd chip. And being that ALL XB360s are multi-processor consoles, then most all operations will or atleast should be taking advantage of all 3 chips, with the speed increase to go with it.

Patiki
05-18-2005, 11:43 AM
Although I am disappointed that there hasn't been much revealed about the Revolution, I guess they just didn't want Microsoft to steal their revolutionary ideas the same way they stole their console names (xBox = GameCube, xbox360 = Revolution).

archerx
05-18-2005, 12:35 PM
ahahahahaha thats funny... i never noticed that before....

itsallgoode9
05-18-2005, 01:08 PM
here's a new image I found

http://img277.echo.cx/img277/8522/revolutionside4iv.jpg

slot for 2 gamecube memory cards and 4 gamecube controllers.

HamsaPaksham
05-18-2005, 01:22 PM
OMG.
Thats soooooooo expensive. You can buy a car with that money. Heheheh.

I would never pay that money for a videogame. I would prefer less power and less cost also.

Gamoron
05-18-2005, 03:48 PM
Somebody post a screeny from a Revolution game quick. www.gametrailers.com has some awesome looking stuff. Nothing showcasing the revolution.

Even worse the PS3 is looking very nice to me. I know that the Killzone2 trailer is all scripted, and that apparently Killzone had shitty gameplay, but if Killzone2 can look like that in game I might just sell out and buy a PS3.

:sad:

Solothores
05-18-2005, 03:52 PM
Unfortunately nintendo was very tightliped regarding revolution, no screens yet.

Larry_g1s
05-18-2005, 07:17 PM
Smash Bros.

Online.

At launch.

'nuff saidSoooooo freakin' true! :scream:
Super Smash Bros. is by far my most favorite multi-player game, and to be able to play against people from all over the world....drool...

Unfortunately nintendo was very tightliped regarding revolution, no screens yet.That was kinda a bummer. But I did like that they mentioned many of the top 3rd party devs where on board: Square Enix, Capcom, Konami, EA, Activision, Namco, etc..

And I liked that you could download all the past Nintendo games from the NES, SNES, and N64!...as well as it being backwards compatible with the GameCube.

itsallgoode9
05-18-2005, 09:42 PM
doesn't nintendo usually show a quick demo of thier new consoles behind closed doors at E3? like really secret hush hush to just a handful major video game press? I believe they did that with both the gamecube and n64 and probally snes and small tidbits would usually VERY slowly come out within the coming months. If my memory serves me correctly this usually happens so hopefully it did this year and we will get some info in the next month or 2

Solothores
05-18-2005, 10:54 PM
05/19/05 @ 12pm (9pm CET)

E3-Live-Stream "A Man Called Reggie" on Gamespot



so is the revolution taking part tomorrow?

itsallgoode9
05-18-2005, 11:00 PM
so is the revolution taking part tomorrow?
[/font]

damn you for pointing that posibility out. I am sure that i'm gonna be all excited when i'm trying to sleep tonight in anticipation, but will be let down once again lol

edit*** i spent alot of time searching on the US Patent office site today and Nintendo filed a ton of patents related to game systems on May 17th 2005.....the site isn't updated for the 18th so I don't know about today. So m aybe there's a possibility that they are gonna show some more tomorrow about the rev.

lovisx
05-19-2005, 12:01 AM
they did say that they were saving some stuff for "later" which I assume is later in the conference.

baaah888
05-19-2005, 12:11 AM
well they haven't said anything yet, they havent even shown us the controller, so if they dont show it during the E3 confrence then they'll fall off the radar for too long.

itsallgoode9
05-19-2005, 12:15 AM
well they haven't said anything yet, they havent even shown us the controller, so if they dont show it during the E3 confrence then they'll fall off the radar for too long.

That's what really confused me about why they didn't show anything yesterday. Really, it would make a bigger splash if you caught everybody off guard like this too...and now people would be over the very inital "wow" of the ps and 360.......man i'm getting all optimistic again :(

Bonedaddy
05-19-2005, 02:17 AM
Nintendo said some time ago they weren't really going to show much Revolution stuff at E3. I am amazed they showed what they did. I doubt you'll get more. Nintendo is still finalizing stuff on their console -- I mean, the size, color, all that isn't near final, and they're inviting user comments on it.

Just chill. They'll reveal more when they have more to show. It won't kill them.

erilaz
05-19-2005, 02:23 AM
And I liked that you could download all the past Nintendo games from the NES, SNES, and N64!...as well as it being backwards compatible with the GameCube.

I would buy it on these specs alone. A chance to play all the games I could never get in Australia (damn you PAL! Damn Yooooo!)

eraser851
05-19-2005, 04:54 AM
ok everyone
tomorrow at 10 am (pacific)
Nintendo will show the real Revolution.

what they showed was nothing compared to what they're gonna show tomorrow.

So keep an eye out on IGN and Gamespy

itsallgoode9
05-19-2005, 05:25 AM
ok everyone
tomorrow at 10 am (pacific)
Nintendo will show the real Revolution.

what they showed was nothing compared to what they're gonna show tomorrow.

So keep an eye out on IGN and Gamespy


where'd you hear that from? i wasn't able to find any scheduled stuff besides that conference with reggie at noon.

eraser851
05-19-2005, 05:47 AM
thats what it is.


Nintendo has set up a big marketing Game. (a very very very clever one at that)
Click here for details

http://boards.ign.com/Revolution_Lobby/b8270/87545549/

here is where the 'N-Game' originated from:

http://mozlapunk.web-log.nl/log/2580479

it explains everything


once you read this, it will all make sense


tomorrow, the Revolution comes to life


i mean think about it.

that conference they had was probably one of their worst ever.
Iwata just walks up and pulls the thing out from behind his back... no intro... no nothing.


If any of you have seen the 'Nintendo On' video. and you've watched the Nintendo Conference, you should understand what they mean when they say "You'll be using your right brain"

they're downplaying it until tomorrow when it'll blow everyone away when they lease expect it.

EpShot
05-19-2005, 08:16 AM
well thats interesting.

Solothores
05-19-2005, 08:30 AM
yeah, there was an interview on a german game site with Tim Sweeney, Epic, insisting that he expects games taking full advantage of Xbox360 and PS3 around 2-3 years after release, asked about Nintendo Revolution, he claimed that it was like a black hole, they know nothing about it. Joking that Nintendo maybe has incorporated some alien technology from a crashed Spaceship or so.

Alas it's rather interesting since you might expect that one of the most important engine creators at least knows something about it. This mystery around Revolution sure does smell strange.

Cheers
Solo

3d_dude
05-19-2005, 09:08 AM
Yeah, maybe ur right with the 'unveiling' tomorrow. Maybe the little black box that was shown recently is just somthin that they can show the audience (it only being concept). You obviously noticed the lack of any game footage, controller and what truely makes it revolutionary. So maybe they plan to reveal everything tomorrow. (including the new, non-flight-recoreder version of the revolution?)

lastchild7
05-19-2005, 04:03 PM
i also heard this rumour and some interesting prophesys that apparantly came true about the revolution so far.....


we have to wait and see, what ever the case when you play the revolution you will have a smile on your face and that is the point.

also another thing i read about the romour kinda spooky in a nice way.

1 the console video was called nintendo on

2 Nintendo has partnered with IGN

3. go to http://www.nintendoon.com and see were it leads you

4. these are rumours at the moment so it is best not to get hopes up

5. if nintendo are cooking something it will be sweet.

6 if they are not cooking. they will reveal something on another day and it will be sweet.

7 I also heard that airies was a hoax and he is a school kid.

8. I am the devils advocate so dont crucify me for any false info

lovisx
05-19-2005, 05:55 PM
shouldn't they have revealed something new by now the conference is almost over?

Solothores
05-19-2005, 06:03 PM
2h till the "a man called reggie" show starts, cheers mate :thumbsup:

eraser851
05-19-2005, 07:04 PM
any details as of yet?

Solothores
05-19-2005, 07:11 PM
nope, still 49 min to go.

BigCurly
05-19-2005, 07:54 PM
anyone have a link?

lovisx
05-19-2005, 07:54 PM
http://cube.ign.com/articles/617/617000p1.html


It's official, nothing will be revealed :rolleyes:

LiquidMetal
05-19-2005, 08:09 PM
me thinkhttp://cube.ign.com/articles/617/617000p1.html


It's official, nothing will be revealed :rolleyes:

where does it say that?

baaah888
05-19-2005, 08:20 PM
IGNcube: We don't have any "tech specs" for Revolution. We don't have an educated idea or an estimate of how powerful the machine will be. Can you shed some light?

Shigeru Miyamoto: Let me pose a question to you. When we launched the Nintendo DS, we didn't really say too much about its power. Do you think we've suffered?

IGNcube: No. Definitely not.

Shigeru Miyamoto: We're kind of in a strange period where power is the crux of whether or not something is going to be successful. So again, that seems a little bit odd. If we rely solely on power of console to dictate to where we're going with games, I think that tends to suppress the creativity of designers. They tend to rely solely on what the technology allows them to do instead of thinking of new and creative ideas.

The way we are approaching the development of Revolution is we pose the questions to ourselves: why is the home console necessary? What functions in a home console would make everyone in the family say, "Yeah, we need that and want that." We pose those questions and the answers to those questions are what's guiding our development.



i presume he means this,

but i still expect them to show off the controller at sometime, that has nothing to do with revealing the power or specs of the machine.

poly-phobic
05-19-2005, 08:22 PM
me think

where does it say that?

As far as the Revolution is concerned, development is going really well. But at the same time, this is a trade show and we want to concentrate on our business for this year. So rather than rush out in a panic and try to get a bunch of information out to people, we want to give out some of the general concepts and we're going to save everything else for when we're all set. Next year, when it's the year of the Revolution, we'll bring out everything from under the wrapping paper.



http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/617/617000/e3-2005-shigeru-miyamoto-interview-20050519104230850.jpg
Nintendo Revolution
IGNcube: Speaking about Revolution, we have many questions. At a trade show like E3, it seems that perception is so important. You say that it's not the time to reveal Revolution in full. But with major showings from Microsoft's and Sony's next-generation consoles, do you feel that it hurts Nintendo to remain quiet? That people may incorrectly assume that Nintendo is quiet because it isn't prepared to compete with or lags behind its competition? Shigeru Miyamoto: You know, I didn't get a chance to see the Sony and Microsoft presentations for myself, but from what I've heard from people it sounds like they are going to be using cutting-edge technology, as are we. However, the way that they are planning on implementing that technology is obviously very different from the route that we're going to be taking. On the business side of things I see where we're going and I see where they're going and I'm not worried at all. I don't think it's going to influence us at all. We're good to go.

IGNcube: We don't have any "tech specs" for Revolution. We don't have an educated idea or an estimate of how powerful the machine will be. Can you shed some light?

Shigeru Miyamoto: Let me pose a question to you. When we launched the Nintendo DS, we didn't really say too much about its power. Do you think we've suffered?


IGNcube: Have Revolution development kits gone out yet?

Shigeru Miyamoto: We have not sent out development kits to developers yet. However, development kits for the Nintendo Revolution are very similar to the ones for the GameCube. So we feel that the environments are so similar that they will be able to start development very quickly upon receiving the development kits for Revolution.

lovisx
05-19-2005, 08:27 PM
....As far as the Revolution is concerned, development is going really well. But at the same time, this is a trade show and we want to concentrate on our business for this year. So rather than rush out in a panic and try to get a bunch of information out to people, we want to give out some of the general concepts and we're going to save everything else for when we're all set. Next year, when it's the year of the Revolution, we'll bring out everything from under the wrapping paper.....

....That hasn't been determined. We haven't decided yet. I'm sure that there will be information that we'll get out somewhere, somehow, through developers or something. I'm sure there will be some leaks. But next year at E3, everything will be public as far as Revolution is concerned. It will all be out there, which should tell you that we're well into it. It's not that we don't have anything. So next year you'll get it all. ....

....but if you look at the numbers that they're throwing out, are those numbers going to be used in-game? I mean, those are just numbers that somebody just crunched up on a calculator. We could throw out a bunch of numbers, too, but what we're going to do is wait until our chips are done and we're going to find out how everything in the game is running, what its peak performance is, and those are the numbers that we're going to release because those are the numbers that really count.



so mr Miyamoto is saying that there have been no development kits sent out to developers (in the article not in my quotes) and that info on the revolution might leak from developers, otherwise not much will be revealed. He also says that their chip hasn't been totally developed yet. He also says in the article that the controller will not be revealed because it will be copied.

So if nintendo does show more it won't be much. Perhaps a tech demo, but I doubt it.

Hazdaz
05-19-2005, 10:09 PM
so mr Miyamoto is saying that there have been no development kits sent out to developers (in the article not in my quotes) and that info on the revolution might leak from developers, otherwise not much will be revealed. He also says that their chip hasn't been totally developed yet. He also says in the article that the controller will not be revealed because it will be copied.

So if nintendo does show more it won't be much. Perhaps a tech demo, but I doubt it.

So what Mr Miyamoto is REALLY saying that is that they got side-swipe by the power of the PS3 and XB360 and are heavily revising their planned console so it can actually compete with the other two.

lovisx
05-19-2005, 10:34 PM
I'm crossing my damned fingers.:D

baaah888
05-19-2005, 10:36 PM
hahahah if you want to believe that you can, i doubt nintendo are running scared cause of some pre rendered "game" footage.

why dont you just sit and wait for them to release their console fully, then said they're not ready to disclose details yet, which probably means they're ....not ready to disclose details.

nintendo aren't Sony, when they say something its rarely misleading or hidden behind figures or edited pictures or a celebrity endorsement like sony.

Just_David
05-19-2005, 10:37 PM
nintendo are finished ( or at least their market share is going to dewindle on the console market ) being released in 2006 is way to late considering MS will have theirs in show by Xmas and Sony in 9months.

Someone needs to tell them about the 1st to market concept!

Bonedaddy
05-19-2005, 10:49 PM
Someone needs to tell them about the 1st to market concept!

Like Sega?

All these doomsayer comments crack me up. They remind me of what people have been saying about Apple for 20+ years.

Just_David
05-19-2005, 10:54 PM
Like Sega?

All these doomsayer comments crack me up. They remind me of what people have been saying about Apple for 20+ years.

Remind me, which console was Segas last?

Hazdaz
05-19-2005, 10:54 PM
why dont you just sit and wait for them to release their console fully, then said they're not ready to disclose details yet, which probably means they're ....not ready to disclose details.
See I find it interesting that SONY - who is supposedly releasing their console around the same time as Nintendo - can atleast show off pre-rendered tech demos... yet Nintendo can't. I think that right there is quite telling. Also like that Nintendo executive said - the game developers haven't even SEEN the development-kits for the new machine. While some game companies for the PS3 and XB360 have had theirs for quite some time. That is also very telling, espesially since games take years to make - sounds like Nintendo might not have alot of 3rd party games available at launch if the game companies don't have their kits.

nintendo aren't Sony, when they say something its rarely misleading or hidden behind figures or edited pictures or a celebrity endorsement like sony.
Tell that to the guys that got suckered into getting the DS this past Christmas - a system that has been reported to be eclipsed by ANOTHER Nintendo portable system within the year - that would make it the 156,416th portable system from Nintendo in 3 years.

The DS has had comparitively horrible support and the few games it does have, are said to be quite lame. Good job Nintendo in exploiting your fanbase into buying the $150 gadget that will be replaced in about one year. :thumbsup: :rolleyes:

Tonedef
05-19-2005, 10:59 PM
I love the DS it is very inovative and engaging...have you ever sat down and played it for a couple hours trying as many games possible? If not then don't talk like you know what it is like, and if so then by all means complain away. :)

Bonedaddy
05-19-2005, 11:12 PM
Remind me, which console was Segas last?

The Dreamcast, which was first to market, ahead of the PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube.

pushav
05-19-2005, 11:17 PM
9 gigs of power! I am sold:thumbsup:

-Vormav-
05-20-2005, 12:31 AM
Also like that Nintendo executive said - the game developers haven't even SEEN the development-kits for the new machine. While some game companies for the PS3 and XB360 have had theirs for quite some time. That is also very telling, espesially since games take years to make - sounds like Nintendo might not have alot of 3rd party games available at launch if the game companies don't have their kits.

Yep. A lot of the time, it seems like Nintendo simply doesn't give a damn about 3rd party developers, thinking their own development teams are enough to hold up their consoles. If they want to have a fighting chance this time around, they'll need to get dev kits out very very soon, or it'll just be another system with a small game library. It isn't so much the Playstation's hardware that has made it such a successful system, but all of the support and games coming from other developers.
Sure the DS is cool and innovative, but where's the support for it?

heavyness
05-20-2005, 01:56 AM
See I find it interesting that SONY - who is supposedly releasing their console around the same time as Nintendo - can at least show off pre-rendered tech demos... yet Nintendo can't. I think that right there is quite telling. Also like that Nintendo executive said - the game developers haven't even SEEN the development-kits for the new machine.

ONE company said they haven't seen the dev kits, while i know of one company here in Seattle that does have it [and they are not a 2nd party either, 3rd party company]. also, maybe nintendo doesn't worry about E3 like other companies. remember they use to show their new stuff off at Space World, so their development cycle might be a little off. then again, nintendo doesn't care, they do what they do, the way they want to, always have, always will. MS and Sony where fighting over who was going to show off their system first while nintendo never flinched.

what it boils down to is gameplay, and personally, nintendo has NEVER failed in that department.

Hazdaz
05-20-2005, 02:03 AM
ONE company said they haven't seen the dev kits, while i know of one company here in Seattle that does have it [and they are not a 2nd party either, 3rd party company].
|
|
V
Shigeru Miyamoto: We have not sent out development kits to developers yet...

And your comment that "nintendo doesn't care, they do what they do, the way they want to, always have, always will" might be accurate, but when they were essentually the only game in Console Town they could do that (way back in the day). Doesn't work that way now.

novadude
05-20-2005, 03:58 AM
Doesn't work that way now.

Especially with the giant that is M$ in the picture, who can afford any problems and can literally afford to eat the entire cost of their console to boost game sales. Microsoft being in the picture now is both the best and worst thing that could happen. On one hand they will force everyone else to put out the best they can or be cut down early, while on the other they can cut you down no matter what you do.

poly-phobic
05-20-2005, 04:36 AM
Especially with the giant that is M$ in the picture.

when will we start using $ to pejoratively denote Sony as we do M$ for micro$oft...
that day will come... soon... when EA and sony become one... and become our new lord and master.http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/twisted.gif

novadude
05-20-2005, 04:59 AM
when will we start using $ to pejoratively denote Sony as we do M$ for micro$oft...
that day will come... soon... when EA and sony become one... and become our new lord and master.http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/twisted.gif

Any off like that comes up, and M$ buys EA for 2x as much as Sony offered :)
Then they proceed to buy all of the companies that make good games for the PS3 and license them back to Sony so they have some "competition" and they aren't dissolved as a monopoly :thumbsup:

heavyness
05-20-2005, 05:43 AM
Shigeru Miyamoto: We have not sent out development kits to developers yet...

then i guess i have a liar on my hands.

Just_David
05-20-2005, 08:14 AM
The Dreamcast, which was first to market, ahead of the PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube.

ahh yes an inferior product to the ps2.

with No DVD compatibility
No EA support
An unexpected manufacturing glitch with the graphics chips NEC was supplying caused a shortage of inventory about a month after the initial Japanese launch,And other Sega mishaps.
1st to market dosent mean fire out your product 1st. It also means having the best product out there AND support network for it something clearly the DC didnt have.

Nintendo may be offering to little too late by the time the RS launch happens.

visionist
05-20-2005, 08:38 AM
See I find it interesting that SONY - who is supposedly releasing their console around the same time as Nintendo - can atleast show off pre-rendered tech demos... yet Nintendo can't. I think that right there is quite telling. Also like that Nintendo executive said - the game developers haven't even SEEN the development-kits for the new machine. While some game companies for the PS3 and XB360 have had theirs for quite some time. That is also very telling, espesially since games take years to make - sounds like Nintendo might not have alot of 3rd party games available at launch if the game companies don't have their kits.


Actually if you have watched any of the e3 news no one has a ps3 development kit but they are alpha kits. :)

Larry_g1s
05-20-2005, 04:45 PM
what it boils down to is gameplay, and personally, nintendo has NEVER failed in that department.So true. :thumbsup:

ahh yes an inferior product to the ps2. I think that's Bonedaddy point, you can't be 1st to the market and have the best product out. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Just_David
05-20-2005, 06:15 PM
So true. :thumbsup:

I think that's Bonedaddy point, you can't be 1st to the market and have the best product out. You can't have your cake and eat it too.




Sorry your wrong.. being 1st to market is everything with a superior product of anytype that is indemand gaurantees the lions share of the market, while the opposite is exactly true also.

Bonedaddy
05-20-2005, 06:32 PM
ahh yes an inferior product to the ps2.


Why don't you define your argument? Last thing you said, being first is everything. Then being powerful is everything. Now it's both?

The dreamcast was amply powered, and produced some of the finest games of its generation pretty early on (Soul Calibur anyone?). It had better games than either of its competitors for a long time, but there were more factors than you're ready to think about in why it collapsed. It was not merely a matter of "OMG teh ps2 iz powful wtf sega" -- consumers had been burned for quite a bit by Sega's console insanity, and as a consequence, it didn't have tractability with developers, gamers, or retailers.

This E3 has got me very upset, because it's a step backwards in gaming, as far as I can see. Nintendo and Sony are huge conglomerates who would happily ditch real gamers for a larger, mainstream market share. They do not view games as an artform, and will do next to nothing interesting with the medium. Just bigger, flasher, shinier. Nintendo is the one company left standing that actually cares about that sort of thing, and all of you are clamoring for its blood.

Edit: Rereading your post, your argument about the dreamcast technical problems at launch hold no water if you're comparing it to the PS2. They had so many problems getting units to shelves that Penny Arcade made a comic or two about it.

Just_David
05-20-2005, 07:17 PM
Whos arguing? Your twisting my words..

Being first to market isnt just what it sounds like, although i get the impression thats what you think it is... Its not about just getting a good product on the market ASAP but also having a great support network to to back it up.. Something Sega didnt have. They failed on many levels.

What i am trying to say is that Nintendo are reducing their chances of market share releasing so late. They dont have an established support network like MS has with Xbox live. Granted neither do Sony but they do have the largest market share in the console dept and a large loyal fanbase...

They`re (Nintendo) only now adding DVD capabiltiy to their latest console ( /rolls eyes ) and they are releasing an underpowered product in face of competition that will have their products established in timeframe of maybe 8-12 months.

Alot of mature gamers are looking thru rose-tinited glasses at Nintendo and their downloadable back catalog. Nostalgia will only sell so many consoles. I dont think this will be the end of Nintendo but I do think it will weaken them further an already weak 3rd place.

only an opinion, take it or leave it.

Nintendo is the one company left standing that actually cares about that sort of thing, and all of you are clamoring for its blood.

yeah and still company driven by money first and foremost.

Edit: Rereading your post, your argument about the dreamcast technical problems at launch hold no water if you're comparing it to the PS2. They had so many problems getting units to shelves that Penny Arcade made a comic or two about it.

like i said, whos arguing???? Again your putting words into my post i havent said.

lovisx
05-20-2005, 07:23 PM
Define what a real gamer is, isn't anyone who plays video games a real gamer. Who says a hard core gamer's opinion towards video games is more important then a casual gamer? No one can say really, its up to people opinions nothing more.

Define gaming as an art? I'm sure there are many definitions. For me its the art of creating strange new worlds for people to explore and interact with. Sony seems to be the company who's pushing the envelope as far as this aspect of gaming is concerned. They have created a huge canvas that can be filled with just about anything.

If gaming is the art of creating interactive puzzles then why make a system every five years? Because beautifully rendered and physical enviroments make puzzle solving more fun.

and when nintendo says it will at least introduce one new franchise with revolution and redo all the old ones, you kind of have to group it with the rest. To me it seems that they're more interested in gimicks then making games better. What's going to be revolutions launch title but another smash brothers.

so yeah, I'll wait and see, perhaps nintendo will be more attractive later, but right now I'm sad to say the other systems look much more promising


and on another note, Microsoft lost money with XBox, I'd say they are in third place.

Just_David
05-20-2005, 08:43 PM
Apart from ninendo they all lost money on consoles but they more than make it up in software sales.

Xbox is has 2nd largest share.

Recursive
05-20-2005, 09:13 PM
Apart from ninendo they all lost money on consoles but they more than make it up in software sales.

Xbox is has 2nd largest share.

if by "more then make up for it" you mean operate at a staggering year on end loss, then yes. I guess then are making up for it.

Neil
05-21-2005, 01:23 AM
Here is Miyamoto's response the exact discussions that are going on here about the presumed power of all 3 of the next consols:

Shigeru Miyamoto:
"We're kind of in a strange period where power is the crux of whether or not something is going to be successful. So again, that seems a little bit odd. If we rely solely on power of console to dictate to where we're going with games, I think that tends to suppress the creativity of designers. They tend to rely solely on what the technology allows them to do instead of thinking of new and creative ideas.

The way we are approaching the development of Revolution is we pose the questions to ourselves: why is the home console necessary? What functions in a home console would make everyone in the family say, "Yeah, we need that and want that." We pose those questions and the answers to those questions are what's guiding our development. "

Hazdaz
05-21-2005, 01:36 AM
Here is Miyamoto's response the exact discussions that are going on here about the presumed power of all 3 of the next consols:

Shigeru Miyamoto:
"We're kind of in a strange period where power is the crux of whether or not something is going to be successful. So again, that seems a little bit odd. If we rely solely on power of console to dictate to where we're going with games, I think that tends to suppress the creativity of designers. They tend to rely solely on what the technology allows them to do instead of thinking of new and creative ideas.

The way we are approaching the development of Revolution is we pose the questions to ourselves: why is the home console necessary? What functions in a home console would make everyone in the family say, "Yeah, we need that and want that." We pose those questions and the answers to those questions are what's guiding our development. "

that is pure double-talk...."If we rely solely on power of console to dictate to where we're going with games, I think that tends to suppress the creativity of designers."... it is BECAUSE of the power of the system that allows developers to become even more creative. When a console has the power to do real-time physics and calculate intricate AI strategies along with beautiful iamges all at 60 FPS, developers are given the freedom to be able to explore far-out game ideas cuz their hardware isn't limiting them.

I think it is speeches like what Miyamoto said there, that makes me think that Nintendo way UNDER-estimated the power of their competitors and thus since they can't compete on power, now must put a new spin on things.

NanoGator
05-21-2005, 01:44 AM
See I find it interesting that SONY - who is supposedly releasing their console around the same time as Nintendo - can atleast show off pre-rendered tech demos... yet Nintendo can't. I think that right there is quite telling.

Not all that telling, really. It says that Nintendo has something Sony doesn't. Sony's only real 'innovation' here is a bunch of processing power, that'd be hard to rip off.

Just_David
05-21-2005, 01:49 AM
neither of them has anything worth talking or looking at. I think Kudos to MS, least they showed some demos. That has to count for something.

NanoGator
05-21-2005, 06:22 AM
neither of them has anything worth talking or looking at. I think Kudos to MS, least they showed some demos. That has to count for something.

Actually, the PS3 screenshots that came out of it were quite exciting. I don't normally get hyped (especially for Sony) but.. wow.

Just_David
05-21-2005, 10:16 AM
Actually, the PS3 screenshots that came out of it were quite exciting. I don't normally get hyped (especially for Sony) but.. wow.

wow? isnt the general consensus now that anything shown by Sony wasnt running on dev kitsApart from the tech demos? Whilst MS game demos were early alpha kits?

could be wrong.

Geta-Ve
05-21-2005, 10:50 AM
wow? isnt the general consensus now that anything shown by Sony wasnt running on dev kitsApart from the tech demos? Whilst MS game demos were early alpha kits?

could be wrong.

actually, ut07 and fight night were runing on ps3/devkits whatever..

also at ign you can find like a 2 minute clip of a whole battle in ut07 pretty nifty stuff, too low of a resolution though :(

Hazdaz
05-21-2005, 01:42 PM
wow? isnt the general consensus now that anything shown by Sony wasnt running on dev kitsApart from the tech demos? Whilst MS game demos were early alpha kits?

could be wrong.

Also, while it might be complete BS, Microsoft said that everything they showed was only using 1/3 of the processing power available to them. That is insane if true. :eek::eek::eek:

Neil
05-21-2005, 06:29 PM
When a console has the power to do real-time physics and calculate intricate AI strategies along with beautiful iamges all at 60 FPS, developers are given the freedom to be able to explore far-out game ideas cuz their hardware isn't limiting them.

Not if the developers can't code well enough to actually utilize all the power available. Nintendo said they're not trying to go crazy with power because they want it to be easy to develop for. When it comes to publishers, they want fast turn arounds and more rewards.
Whether this angle works or not, we'll see.

Andyman
05-22-2005, 12:36 AM
I would just like to say that neither money nor power directly cause an increase in creativity. If anything it only contributes to laziness and lack of imagination.

What I mean by that is this: when you have less to work with, you have to think of creative ways to get more done. Who hasn't exeperienced this? You're painting a picture, but you don't have purple paint to paint the sky. So what do you do? You get a little creative by mixing red and blue. "Necessity is the mother of invention." You want to make a homemade StarWars film, but you can't afford to buy professional greenscreen or costumes. So what do you do? You figure out a way to make stuff yourself for cheap.

I am not saying that Nintendo is trying to force developers into using an underpowered system in order to squeeze creative things out of them. I'm sure the Revolution will be powerful enough to do things just as well as either XBOX360 or PS3; but the point is... one reason for not touting the power of Revolution is the fact that power is irrelevent to making fun games. When you help your developers depend on processing power to make good games - thinking with the CPU rather than your own imagination - you only shoot yourself in the foot. Sure you can sell games with advertising and mechandising and such, but when all is said and done... Nintendo still stands tall because of their games.

Microsoft needs to remember their good 'ole saying, "Where do you want to go today?" rather than making it "How fast do you want to get there?"

baaah888
05-22-2005, 01:08 AM
Not if the developers can't code well enough to actually utilize all the power available. Nintendo said they're not trying to go crazy with power because they want it to be easy to develop for. When it comes to publishers, they want fast turn arounds and more rewards.
Whether this angle works or not, we'll see.

quoted for agreement, add to that, if you dont have the budget or big enough team to create the art assets of killzone 2 then power means jack all, gameplay isn't all about physics, if anything a very small percentage of great games have anywhere near real physics, and thats not a bad thing, anyways i could go on for ages, but im not going to, power doesn't add much when things like input devices (controllers) remain the same. one generation to the next.

Bentagon
05-22-2005, 11:43 AM
that is pure double-talk...."If we rely solely on power of console to dictate to where we're going with games, I think that tends to suppress the creativity of designers."... it is BECAUSE of the power of the system that allows developers to become even more creative. When a console has the power to do real-time physics and calculate intricate AI strategies along with beautiful iamges all at 60 FPS, developers are given the freedom to be able to explore far-out game ideas cuz their hardware isn't limiting them.

I think it is speeches like what Miyamoto said there, that makes me think that Nintendo way UNDER-estimated the power of their competitors and thus since they can't compete on power, now must put a new spin on things.Yes, you are right. It allows them to become even more creative. Problem is, most of them don't. A lot of interesting and lovely games and films have grown out of the fact that the designers were FORCED to be creative to create their vision. Nintendo sees this, and that's why they don't want to spend all their money creating something that could give more power, while they could be working on something special.

- Benjamin

Just_David
05-22-2005, 01:22 PM
Not if the developers can't code well enough to actually utilize all the power available. Nintendo said they're not trying to go crazy with power because they want it to be easy to develop for. When it comes to publishers, they want fast turn arounds and more rewards.
Whether this angle works or not, we'll see.

<< translation >>

We are tweaking the GC internals and produced a box thats only slightly more powerful, so it`ll be cheap to manufacture so that we dont make a loss on the hardware like Sony or MS will.

FlyByNight
05-22-2005, 01:41 PM
<< translation >>

We are tweaking the GC internals and produced a box thats only slightly more powerful, so it`ll be cheap to manufacture so that we dont make a loss on the hardware like Sony or MS will.

whatever, i prefer bentagons explanation... the last gen consoles were hardly used to their full potential... just because more power is available, it doesnt mean EVERYONE has to adopt it... I think this could be excellent marketing stratergy for nintendo.... we could be seeing some reeally fun and playable games coming from them, using the optimised old technology...

i think this is great... the older consoles were still very capable of making very decent games, but developers never had ebough time, to totally exploit the architecture.... heres hoping....
its all good for us anyway cos we get the best of both worlds:) :thumbsup:

lovisx
05-22-2005, 04:18 PM
I am not saying that Nintendo is trying to force developers into using an underpowered system in order to squeeze creative things out of them. I'm sure the Revolution will be powerful enough to do things just as well as either XBOX360 or PS3; but the point is... one reason for not touting the power of Revolution is the fact that power is irrelevent to making fun games. When you help your developers depend on processing power to make good games - thinking with the CPU rather than your own imagination - you only shoot yourself in the foot. Sure you can sell games with advertising and mechandising and such, but when all is said and done... Nintendo still stands tall because of their games.


I don't know, I agree with you to some extent, less power calls for innovation, but so does more power. If there is a chance to progress and have more power, why not jump at it. So they'll have more power, use it, and find new ways that they have to innovate. More power opens more doors in all reality, and more power is allowing for newer innovations. Think of any game idea you might have and think if it would be better off on a game boy or on a PS3. I don't really believe creativity is created by this or that console, I think there are creative companies and generic companies.


I do agree that perhaps Sony and Xbox are jumping too far ahead, and they won't be able to maintain such a giant leap, but thumbs up to them for trying. I don't really care for Xbox of PS3, I have no attachment to them, so if they fail in trying, and loose money, I could care less. I just know that they've created a new playing ground for developers that is much more rich then in the past, and wether or not the developers take advantage creatively or not is up to them.

baaah888
05-22-2005, 05:10 PM
<< translation >>

We are tweaking the GC internals and produced a box thats only slightly more powerful, so it`ll be cheap to manufacture so that we dont make a loss on the hardware like Sony or MS will.

hahaha mr skeptisism good one, you dont know anyhting about it yet you jump to conclusions before they're even made.

do you even care what the revolutions gonna be like, or have you already written it off?

I find it amazingly funny to see someone slam a company for not releasing much info, after they said, we'll not be releasing much info at E3

to assume that the revolution is a slightly tweaked GC when nothings been shown is just making you sound like a fool to the majority of readers in this thread who are actually wondering what the REV is like rahter than just jumping to massivly pessimistic conclusions.

Hazdaz
05-22-2005, 07:30 PM
hahaha mr skeptisism good one, you dont know anyhting about it yet you jump to conclusions before they're even made.

do you even care what the revolutions gonna be like, or have you already written it off?

I find it amazingly funny to see someone slam a company for not releasing much info, after they said, we'll not be releasing much info at E3

to assume that the revolution is a slightly tweaked GC when nothings been shown is just making you sound like a fool to the majority of readers in this thread who are actually wondering what the REV is like rahter than just jumping to massivly pessimistic conclusions.
I am not going to speak for JUST_DAVID, but I do find it funnAy that your slaming someone for being skeptical about Nintendo's new console, yet every one of your posts could have been tore out of the Nintendo Fanboy handbook.

Most of the skeptical/negative thigns said about the Revolution have been very much on target. Like when I said that the PS3 was atleast showing tech-demos, yet Nitnendo wasn't showing anything really, yet those 2 consoles are going to be shipping around the same time. That is a problem.

Same deal with game companies not getting their Rev development kits yet - something that Nintendo themselves have admitted - yet the PS3 and XB360 have shipped those out already. That is a problem.

A comment that the Rev is a "slightly tweaked GC" can possibly be a valid extrapolation since Nintendo themselves said that the developement kit for the Rev. will be very similiar to the GC. How powerful can this system be (and how "revolutionary" can this system be), if the developemtn kits for both are so similiar? That, to me and many others, suggestions an incremental increase in power. That is a problem.

I rather be cautious and skeptical about Nintendo's new console - espesially since what they have shown is just soo very little - than jump up and down and think that the Rev has to be the bestest thing on Earth just cuz it's coming from the big N.

UrbanFuturistic
05-22-2005, 11:53 PM
A comment that the Rev is a "slightly tweaked GC" can possibly be a valid extrapolation since Nintendo themselves said that the developement kit for the Rev. will be very similiar to the GC. How powerful can this system be (and how "revolutionary" can this system be), if the developemtn kits for both are so similiar? For the same reason that devkitarm can compile GBA and DS code (even though the DS has an ARM9 as well as the GBAs ARM7)? For the same reason that there's not a huge difference for a C programmer between a P4 and an Athlon64? Maybe because OSX runs on a G3 and a Dual G5 system they're almost identical?

I'm seeing a loooot of comments made by people who really don't know what they're talking about.

If I brought someone in who'd only programmed OpenGL1.1 and dropped them in front of 1.5 they'd be able to do all the same stuff they've always done because everything from OpenGL 1.1 is still there. It's still got the same workflow and it requires no retraining whatsoever but it's still got all your vertex, fragment and normal shaders.

The Sony PS3 Devkit uses the embedded form of OpenGL so there's not a great deal of retraining in that aspect but following your logic that makes it almost the same as the (actually quite old) PC I'm typing this on... or maybe one of the newer mobile phones, I hear they used embedded OpenGL, is the PS3 just a tweaked mobile phone?

OK, so if I were to choose right now I'd go for the PS3, mainly because I find it hard to believe the GC version of Timesplitters: Future Perfect has anywhere near as much content on that tiny disc and the previous two TS games were PS/PS2 based so it's more designed with those controllers in mind (yeah, it's the game backward compatibility that's pushing my decision thus far) but if you're gonna bash the Revolution then at least make it an informed bashing.

I'd also like to make an emphasis on a statement:

"If we rely solely on power of console to dictate to where we're going with games, I think that tends to suppress the creativity of designers."

What's the important word here? solely.

What he's implying here is that 'yes, it's very nice that they've got these 3CPU xGHz systems running, but what's new under the sun?' It's really not implying anything about the Rev's power capabilities at all. What Nintendo have done here is wait until their competitors have shown all their cards before making any final 'bets'. It's an interesting gamble and I for one am interested to see if it pays off. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, maybe it's another Phantom (OK, that's a bit unlikely) but then it's not long ago many people were saying the console market was too full for Microsoft.

this jury is out, Paul

Hazdaz
05-23-2005, 12:35 AM
For the same reason that devkitarm can compile GBA and DS code (even though the DS has an ARM9 as well as the GBAs ARM7)? For the same reason that there's not a huge difference for a C programmer between a P4 and an Athlon64? Maybe because OSX runs on a G3 and a Dual G5 system they're almost identical?

I'm seeing a loooot of comments made by people who really don't know what they're talking about.

If I brought someone in who'd only programmed OpenGL1.1 and dropped them in front of 1.5 they'd be able to do all the same stuff they've always done because everything from OpenGL 1.1 is still there. It's still got the same workflow and it requires no retraining whatsoever but it's still got all your vertex, fragment and normal shaders.

The Sony PS3 Devkit uses the embedded form of OpenGL so there's not a great deal of retraining in that aspect but following your logic that makes it almost the same as the (actually quite old) PC I'm typing this on... or maybe one of the newer mobile phones, I hear they used embedded OpenGL, is the PS3 just a tweaked mobile phone?

The differenve between a last generation console (such as the GC) and next-gen console that is supposedly using a completely different architecture (such as the Rev) is a hell of a lot different than most of the examples you chose. I wouldn't expect OpenGL1.1 and 1.5 developemt to be hugely different. Nor Intel versus Amd64.

Now using your examples, is the developemt kit for a PS2 usable for PS3 games? Or XB1 versus XB360 (which went from x86 architecture to one closer to a Mac architecture)?
I highly doubt that... but then again, I could very well be wrong.

Recursive
05-23-2005, 08:01 AM
The differenve between a last generation console (such as the GC) and next-gen console that is supposedly using a completely different architecture (such as the Rev) is a hell of a lot different than most of the examples you chose. I wouldn't expect OpenGL1.1 and 1.5 developemt to be hugely different. Nor Intel versus Amd64.

Now using your examples, is the developemt kit for a PS2 usable for PS3 games? Or XB1 versus XB360 (which went from x86 architecture to one closer to a Mac architecture)?
I highly doubt that... but then again, I could very well be wrong.

Where would you get the idea that they are using "a completely different architecture"? From everything I have seen I think its quite clear that they are using more or less the same architecture, only more powerfull, and possibly with more processor cores.

rakmaya
05-23-2005, 01:31 PM
Where would you get the idea that they are using "a completely different architecture"? From everything I have seen I think its quite clear that they are using more or less the same architecture, only more powerfull, and possibly with more processor cores.

Don't be such a half minded. XBOX360 uses a completely different architecture in terms of processor wise. It uses the PowerPC which is totally different from x86. You cannot take an application developed for xbox and put it on the 360. MS just didn't put 3 cores in it and neither did Sony. In terms of Cell, the general instruction set is the same and hence the code execution from the execution model is the same. However the processor implementation of the execution model is completely different. This doesn't mean much of a difference from the software perspective other than the more available instruction sets and registers.

Apart from that all systems have dedicated GPU, Except the xbox developers, the ENTIRE Render Pipeline of the game engines have to be changed to make use of the systems. This means a different principle. However I was told by some that they no longer have to manually push the code onto the synthesizer like it was on ps2. The use of OGL simplifies that aspect. Apart from that the dev on PS3 and X360 is very different to make use of the architecture to full power.

Internet enabled games such as MMORPG have to include facilities that are not available in PC MMOGs (especially on 360). This means new features but also means more work for dev and different strategy. IT IS NOT the same are rewriting a DX Render pipeline to OGL.

You cannot use xbox dev kit and create a game to run it on 360. Revolution will probably use the same strategy as Sony in keeping the instrction set and execution model same and try to implement the better faster different architecture underneath.

Recursive
05-23-2005, 02:00 PM
Dont be such a half minded? What does that even mean? I ask a question and you reply with an insult and say that xbox 1.5 will be completly different from xbox 1.0.

If you didnt notice I wrote that based on the info that is released now its more logical to say that revolution will be more similar to gcube then different. I can't begin to see how the change from x86 to ppc for the xbox has anny effect on that. If any it has the oposite effect since the gcube uses ppc, and the revolution will use ppc.

Just_David
05-23-2005, 02:42 PM
hahaha mr skeptisism good one, you dont know anyhting about it yet you jump to conclusions before they're even made.

do you even care what the revolutions gonna be like, or have you already written it off?

I find it amazingly funny to see someone slam a company for not releasing much info, after they said, we'll not be releasing much info at E3

to assume that the revolution is a slightly tweaked GC when nothings been shown is just making you sound like a fool to the majority of readers in this thread who are actually wondering what the REV is like rahter than just jumping to massivly pessimistic conclusions.

Oh Dear, did i just upset a fanboi? Too bad. Like it or lump it Nintendo market share is dwindling, ive recently read a report on this. They will release the " Revoultion " at the same time as PS3 if not after and in the face of Ms`s 360 in which by that time 2nd generation games will probably look amazing capturing the desires of many a young player or 20-30 something..

Like ive said. Nostalgia will sell only soo many consoles. IMO they will probably design the RS in a way that will allow them to make decent looking games power wise but still make a profit or rather NOT a loss on each unit sold.

Too bad for Nintendo that average Joe on the street will probably care about having the most powerful console rather than what has the best games( gameplay wise )..

lets face it, if you shown gears of war OR killzone2 to average Joe beside Zelda, which one do you think he`d pick..I put money on it it isnt Zelda. Btw cant wait for the next pokemon,zelda, mario party, Kirby game.. /rolls eyes.

Mr skeptisism.

Just_David
05-23-2005, 02:46 PM
Don't be such a half minded. XBOX360 uses a completely different architecture in terms of processor wise. It uses the PowerPC which is totally different from x86. You cannot take an application developed for xbox and put it on the 360. MS just didn't put 3 cores in it and neither did Sony. In terms of Cell, the general instruction set is the same and hence the code execution from the execution model is the same. However the processor implementation of the execution model is completely different. This doesn't mean much of a difference from the software perspective other than the more available instruction sets and registers.

Apart from that all systems have dedicated GPU, Except the xbox developers, the ENTIRE Render Pipeline of the game engines have to be changed to make use of the systems. This means a different principle. However I was told by some that they no longer have to manually push the code onto the synthesizer like it was on ps2. The use of OGL simplifies that aspect. Apart from that the dev on PS3 and X360 is very different to make use of the architecture to full power.

Internet enabled games such as MMORPG have to include facilities that are not available in PC MMOGs (especially on 360). This means new features but also means more work for dev and different strategy. IT IS NOT the same are rewriting a DX Render pipeline to OGL.

You cannot use xbox dev kit and create a game to run it on 360. Revolution will probably use the same strategy as Sony in keeping the instrction set and execution model same and try to implement the better faster different architecture underneath.


:rolleyes:

UrbanFuturistic
05-23-2005, 07:09 PM
The differenve between a last generation console (such as the GC) and next-gen console that is supposedly using a completely different architecture (such as the Rev) is a hell of a lot different than most of the examples you chose. I wouldn't expect OpenGL1.1 and 1.5 developemt to be hugely different. Nor Intel versus Amd64.Which again screams ignorance concerning the devel process.

My point about OpenGL, is that the development environment has changed very little over the years. I can still take code from 1994 and compile that with the latest SDK from nVidia. Do you even have any idea how limited OpenGL 1.1 was? The GeForce256 DDR was OpenGL 1.2 (and DirectX 7) compliant! Let's see you running Far Cry on that; without all the pixel, vertex, fragment shaders, the per-pixel lighting, the 16/32 texture processing pipelines, the 8+ texture passes per cycle. Go on, try, it'll be funny.

Sure, there's been additions and extentions and you've got per-pixel lighting and vertex shading and so on but the basic development environment is almost exactly the same...
...but of course, by your reasoning, because OpenGL 1.5 is 'similar' to OpenGL 1.2, a GeForce256 DDR is practically the same as a 6600GT.

"Hey, I still have to initialise the same loops and execute GLFlush, this 'ere Quadro FX must be the same as that thar MX400 thingy over thar."

Hey, I can use SDL and OpenGL to program for Windows, Linux and OSX using exactly the same code! Don't mind the development environtment, 'cause that's exactly the same as well. Does that mean a Mac is the same as a PC? Really?

No.

I can program something in C and it won't run the same as it did 10 years ago even on the same chip. Why? Looks the same to me, but it doesn't run the same, maybe it's because the inner working of the compiler have been optimised to the point of making ASM code obsolete for the majority of everyday tasks so I can use the exact same code in a development environment that looks exactly the same but it'll run 10 times as fast on the exact same hardware... and if it's kept to certain standards it'll compile and run just as well on entirely different hardware.

Seriously, I'm not a Nintendo fanboy, but I really can't stand it when people start spouting gibberish trying to sound like they know what they're talking about when they haven't the first inkling. Go, go learn something about programming, go learn C++ or something and then we can talk about devkits. I mean, I've already explained that the open source devkit for the GBA and DS is almost exactly the same despite the DS having an entire extra ARM9 chip on top of the ARM7 and you're still displaying complete ignorance about the whole process.

Paul

PS they said it would be 'revolutionary', not a different processor family. I find an Intuos 3 to be pretty revolutionary compared to a 15 Logitech mouse, still runs on an Athlon.

baaah888
05-23-2005, 07:19 PM
Oh Dear, did i just upset a fanboi? Too bad. Like it or lump it Nintendo market share is dwindling, ive recently read a report on this. They will release the " Revoultion " at the same time as PS3 if not after and in the face of Ms`s 360 in which by that time 2nd generation games will probably look amazing capturing the desires of many a young player or 20-30 something..

Like ive said. Nostalgia will sell only soo many consoles. IMO they will probably design the RS in a way that will allow them to make decent looking games power wise but still make a profit or rather NOT a loss on each unit sold.

Too bad for Nintendo that average Joe on the street will probably care about having the most powerful console rather than what has the best games( gameplay wise )..

lets face it, if you shown gears of war OR killzone2 to average Joe beside Zelda, which one do you think he`d pick..I put money on it it isnt Zelda. Btw cant wait for the next pokemon,zelda, mario party, Kirby game.. /rolls eyes.

Mr skeptisism.


Im not a fan boy, i could take a picture of my rig with every console in front of it and prove i dont have tied loyalties.

The one thing i am is someone who doesn't jump to conclusions straight away before anythings been shown,

as for killzone, if it plays like killzone 1 then i couldn't care less if it looks realistic, take zelda though and its gameplay is great so i couldn't care less if it looks cartoony,

I couldn't care less what console a game is on, if its no good then it's no good to me, i won't defend rubbish games like mario sunshine or metal gear (i want to be a movie) 3 or halo 2 which was dissapointing to say the least to me, but i won't not buy a game simply on looks.

which from the way you talk it sounds like you wouldn't.,

oh and you can call me a nintendo fan boy all you want but simple fact is if zelda was made by sony and on the PS and played as good as it does, then i'd still be saying zeldas mint

Just_David
05-23-2005, 10:01 PM
Im not a fan boy, i could take a picture of my rig with every console in front of it and prove i dont have tied loyalties.

I dont believe you and I insist on that photo for proof.

lastchild7
05-23-2005, 10:41 PM
I dont believe you and I insist on that photo for proof.

there is no such thing as a nintendo fanboy..... were i come from they are called the gaming purists...

Just_David
05-23-2005, 11:46 PM
there is no such thing as a nintendo fanboy..... were i come from they are called the gaming purists...

Your talking about mario-land right?

rakmaya
05-24-2005, 12:16 AM
Dont be such a half minded? What does that even mean? I ask a question and you reply with an insult and say that xbox 1.5 will be completly different from xbox 1.0.

If you didnt notice I wrote that based on the info that is released now its more logical to say that revolution will be more similar to gcube then different. I can't begin to see how the change from x86 to ppc for the xbox has anny effect on that. If any it has the oposite effect since the gcube uses ppc, and the revolution will use ppc.

I didn't mean to insult you in any way. When I said being "half minded" I meant it in a sense that you only said half of what it really is. It comes from comon sense that the programming aspect on OpenGL is going to be easy and in that sense it is going to be somwhat similar. But it is much harder than that and the architecture difference does effect many aspect of the programming when it comes to console. Just because PS3 uses OGL it does not mean that they can instantly use all the code and design from PS2 era as it is without significant changes. The same goes to x360.

It was not meant as an insult and simply to point out the fact of the reality.

Neil
05-24-2005, 01:36 AM
Jesus, finish this little flame war through PMs!

Hazdaz
05-24-2005, 02:15 AM
Oh I think this flame war has only begun... what, we have another 6 months till XB360, and another 6 months after that will PS3 comes out.
This thread is gonna end up with a couple of dozen pages of posts.... after all, what else are we gonna do.. go out and enjoy the summer weather?!? LOL

agreenster
05-24-2005, 06:55 AM
They are also going to have different-colored Revolutions as well, not just the black.

Im going to give Nintendo a serious chance with this console. I had my doubts, but Im starting to turn around. For one thing, it's backwards compatible with the GameCube. For another thing, Nintendo is going to have downloadable access to the entire Nintendo game library. A Nintendo version of iTunes MusicStore. Genius. That's 20 years of NES, SNES, and N64 games. Plus, its going to be WiFi.

PLUS, they havent announced the controller yet, and since Nintendo was the first to have the analog stick and rumble pack, I can only assume they have something great up their sleeve.

Graphics are fantastic, and Im sure that the XBox360 and PS3 are going to be incredible machines, but you can count on the Nintendo to be truly revolutionary.

kemijo
05-24-2005, 10:58 AM
They are also going to have different-colored Revolutions as well, not just the black.

Im going to give Nintendo a serious chance with this console....For one thing, it's backwards compatible with the GameCube. For another thing, Nintendo is going to have downloadable access to the entire Nintendo game library. A Nintendo version of iTunes MusicStore. Genius. That's 20 years of NES, SNES, and N64 games. Plus, its going to be WiFi.

PLUS, they havent announced the controller yet, and since Nintendo was the first to have the analog stick and rumble pack, I can only assume they have something great up their sleeve.

Graphics are fantastic, and Im sure that the XBox360 and PS3 are going to be incredible machines, but you can count on the Nintendo to be truly revolutionary.

Quoted in part cuz I agree completely, except I never had any doubts. All systems will be amazing and do well, but for someone to discount Nintendo cuz they like bright colours, fun games and a CHANGE of pace, is like, so two generations ago. Also cuz you're a turtle, and that's awesome.

NanoGator
05-25-2005, 02:51 AM
I wouldn't count out Nintendo, either. If they're smart, they'll keep the price tag around $200. If they start off on that foot, then it's a LOT easier to buy a system just for a handful of games that Nintendo themselves produced. (not to mention the downloadable games...)

Despite popular belief, Nintendo actually can thrive at being #2 or even #3. Nintendo may not have 'won' this round, but they certainly pulled a profit.

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