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Lord3d2
05-12-2005, 10:00 PM
Check this out, its in Danish (those that can understand it) please give translations!!

http://img240.echo.cx/img240/1673/19vp.jpg

http://www.john1744.com/forumpics/1.jpghttp://www.john1744.com/forumpics/1.jpghttp://img240.echo.cx/img240/954/27vo.jpg
http://img240.echo.cx/img240/2475/37yl.jpg
http://img240.echo.cx/img240/340/43sx.jpg
http://www.john1744.com/forumpics/2.jpghttp://www.john1744.com/forumpics/3.jpghttp://www.john1744.com/forumpics/4.jpg

g8ff
05-12-2005, 10:12 PM
Very nice. GR3 looks quite well also. Not sure if I like the Ipod design scheme though.

SheepFactory
05-12-2005, 10:20 PM
ghost recon looks amazing!

I like the xbox design a lot also , minus the controllers. It seems they got the ugly controllers of XB1 and made em even more uglier and more uncomfortable.

Hey whats that about Halo3 down there? can someone translate?

Lord3d2
05-12-2005, 10:24 PM
We need a mass translation on this thing!

:)

tozz
05-12-2005, 10:34 PM
It's allmost nothing new from what previously been said.
The controller is similar to the type-s but _smaller_ so for those of you who likes the big one, though luck.
Halo3 has been in the works since Bungie did the final parts of Halo2, that's about what the text sais.

There's a 20gig harddrive, portable and supposedly upgradeable. Only DVD for the media though.

Note: those pages are scanned from stolen material from the printing "factory".

Hazdaz
05-12-2005, 10:34 PM
umm... am I missing a link or inserted images that aren't showing up?

I'm not seeing anything.

DaJuice
05-12-2005, 10:36 PM
Can't see s*** Captain! :shrug:

Lord3d2
05-12-2005, 10:39 PM
I rehosted them :)

f97ao
05-12-2005, 10:48 PM
Ok, here is a short "translation" or recap of some things in it.

You can switch the front of the controler, so you can have different colors of the controller. (pink anyone?) It's also wireless. It feels similar to the last controller for xbox1. There is a button of light, that lets you instantly switch to live events/settings from the game you are playing with one press.

The xbox2 box you can also choose to have standing if you like.

I didn't read it all but those were some points I found.

/Andreas

Lord3d2
05-12-2005, 10:53 PM
Thanks f97ao (member.php?u=101503), nice tibits for us.

Would be awesome if you could do more translations

Goon
05-12-2005, 10:56 PM
So they made the only controllers I've ever really liked, sized them down to the type-s, and then made them smaller? Egads.

The games look nice tho.

Lord3d2
05-12-2005, 11:00 PM
You can always buy third party controllers

Hazdaz
05-12-2005, 11:00 PM
"button of light, that lets you instantly switch to live events/settings from the game you are playing with one press."
... is that what the X buttons is supposeed to be? Cuz if you look closely, you can see a 1, 2, 3 and 4 around it.

About the controller... PLEASE make one that is the same size as the 1st XB controller... I HATE small controllers.

Goon
05-12-2005, 11:06 PM
You can always buy third party controllers

I could. except all the 3rd party controllers they made were the s size. Which are okay for little kids, but I like size and heft.

BigErn
05-12-2005, 11:17 PM
be interesting to see the relative size of the thing.. in relation to say...... a house :D

Crithon
05-12-2005, 11:21 PM
There is a button of light, that lets you instantly switch to live events/settings from the game you are playing with one press.

You mean the FINALLY are going to make some use of that pointless X on the original controllers. I will just have to applaud them on that, because I think everyone has mocked the pointless X logo when the system was lauched in 2001.

I was never fond of the original design of the X-Box, so any improvemens is always for the better.

Shrink
05-13-2005, 12:04 AM
Explanation here: http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=344830

The controllers look like the best part to me. But that's probably because I already have a good enough computer.

Jeff Lew
05-13-2005, 12:12 AM
Wonder if we'll ever be able to render on this thing. It's way faster than my home computer.

Jeff

Obraxis
05-13-2005, 12:45 AM
I cant wait to stick a 300Gig HDD inside that thing, and turn a bunch into render nodes on Linux ;)

Obraxis
05-13-2005, 12:47 AM
Wonder if we'll ever be able to render on this thing. It's way faster than my home computer.

Jeff

Shouldnt be too hard. The CPUs and GFX cards inside are basicly known to people already and people program for them. A Linux port shouldnt be hard. Ive heard of people turning Xbox 1's into cheap render boxes.

Shade01
05-13-2005, 12:49 AM
So the first xbox was convex, so you couldn't put anything on top of it. And now, the xbox2 is concave, so you can't put anything on top of it!

Hazdaz
05-13-2005, 12:51 AM
Shouldnt be too hard. The CPUs and GFX cards inside are basicly known to people already and people program for them. A Linux port shouldnt be hard. Ive heard of people turning Xbox 1's into cheap render boxes.

That is because the XB1 was essentially a PC - the XB360 is far from that. I would think that people are going to have a hard time getting LINUX to run on those 3 CPUs. I am sure it will eventually get cracked, but my guess is that it is going to be no small feat.

Lord3d2
05-13-2005, 12:54 AM
"
First info for you guys:
*It will be released in europe 7-10 days after USA-release
*December release in Japan
*Its released in less than six months
*Release games: Perfect Dark Zero, PGR3 and Kameo. Check at the end of this post.

Oh you guys... the controllers look PERFECT! And so does the console!

More info:
*10-16 game titles at the release. 40 games after half a year.
*The Xbox Live Silver thingy is correct, it will be there, and those features will be free. "Free weekends" and such.
*You will be able to transfer stuff from an ipod. Mentioned more later.
*You will see TV thru your Xbox. Mentioned more later, check under.
*You can have it placed on "standing position" and just have it straight down.
*When you watch DVD, some stuff in the console will automaticly shut down - so its more quiet. Like one of the fans.
*You load the batteries on the controllers up via USB-cable on Xbox.
*The round thingy on the controller = "The ring of light". Its actually a screen, which says if there are any updates on Xbox Live. Downl. content and such. It also says which controller there is in your hands, the number.
*Rallisport Challenge 3 is rumoured to be on Xbox 360. See under.
*Peter Moore confirms Halo 3. Release earliest next year, according to Nexus.

Allard says:
*There will be face plates, changeable. There will be one in colfiber (+spelling).
*By preventing piracy they will put more money and XBL, making it bigger and better.

Peter Moore says:
(strange) *THIS time we will have more than 1 million users. (Does that mean that there wont be any transfer of the Xbox 1 users? Or that there werent over 1 million on Xbox 1?)
*Nothing new about Square, nothing to be announced @ E3. But he will be surprised if there are NO Square-game on Xbox 360.

Ghost Recon 3:
Okey, first of all. THIS ONE LOOKS HOT. Hot. HOT. HOT. GR 360 oh man you guys.

Oh man.

*Just some info about the story, bla bla. The PC-version is developed by the Deathrow-developers, so that the Red Storm Ent. cant concentrate on the Xb 360 and Xbox-version.

________

More:
*Xbox 360 looks just like the leaked pictures. Its not grey like on Our Colony, its white. But it can be changed.
*The controller seems to have 2 rear buttons and 2 triggers, not sure.
*A, B, X, Y, Back, Start.
*There is a picture of THE "Burning Sky". Seems like you can shut down the Xbox via the controller, by pushing "X" in that screen.
*The Xbox itself has wireless network thingy installed. See below.
*Webcam in 1280-resolution. See below.
*You can put pictures from a digital camera in it. See below.
*Morrowind Oblivion will be released this year.
*About NBA 2k6, they saw a demo of it.
"Lebron James jumped up, and when he touched the grand all of the body shook. All the muscles moved realistic, EVERYTHING on the body."
*Nothing special about PGR3. See below.
*Dimitri, Peter Molyneux latest game, COULD be released on Xbox 360.
*Call Of Duty 2 on Xbox 360, as we already knew.
*The Ghost Recon 3-article is actually written by this TXB-dude who went to Big Blue Box to play Fable, Nexus1000.

*Something Microsoft Vision will be on Xbox 360. You will see normal TV-channels via your Xbox. AND at the same time Play DVDs AND surf on the internet. At the same time, it seems like.
While all this is on you can get invites to games, friend requests, mail. MS is hoping that 50% of the 360-owners will use Live. Right now, ~8% uses it.
*In the middle of a game, by pushing a button you will get directly to the dashboard.

Oh, and finally and most important: J Allards game of the Xbox 360 is "Fisher Price Nuclear Plant". (edit: which wasnt true, see later in the thread)

Oh, and of course: Thousand thanks to the magnificant (+spelling) danish magazine Gamereactor which I took the info from. They rock, and so does Nexus1000. Mostly because he is pretty. And he has Britney as an avatar. In black hair.

The final specs, I guess its OK now cause some of it has already been posted without TXB-guys deleting:

CPU:
3 x IBM Power PC 3.2 ghz

Graphics:
Specially build ATI 500 mhz
10 mb of embedded RAM
512 mb GDDR3 RAM

Polygon capacity:
500 mill/sec

Shade capacity:
48 billions shaderoperations/sec

Harddrive: 20 gb, can be upgraded
12x Dual Layer DVD
Memory Card, 64 mb+

3 USB-ports, 1 back 2 front
2 some kind of ports, dont know what it means

Ethernet-port
Preparded for Wi-fi 802.11
Prepared for webcamera (1280 resolution)

DVD-laser:
DVD-video, DVD-rom, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, CD-DA, CD-rom, CD-R, CD-RW, WMA CD, Mp3 CD, JPEG Photo-CD

Streaming:
From Windows XP PC, pics and movies from digital camera which you then cand send via Xbox Live to others.

ALL, read ALL games support:
16:9, 720p, 1080i, 5.1 Dolby Digital, custom soundtracks.

Games:
Dimitri - Rumour
Gears of War - Confirmed, best looking title on Xbox 360 right now
PGR3 - Confirmed, release title
NBA 2k6 - Confirmed
Halo 3 - Confirmed
Elder Scroll IV: Oblivion - Confirmed for 2005 release
The Godfather - Confirmed
The Darkness (Starbreeze) - Confirmed
Call of Duty 2 - Confirmed. Much info @ E3
Rallisport Challenge 3 - Rumour
Test Drive: Unlimited - Confirmed
Kameo - Confirmed, release title
Perfect Dark Zero - Confirmed, release title"

SheepFactory
05-13-2005, 01:12 AM
now the real question is how much it will cost?

Lord3d2
05-13-2005, 01:23 AM
$399 dollars

Hazdaz
05-13-2005, 01:32 AM
^^ Maybe the top-of-the-line XB360 with harddrive and all that Tivo capability, but I don't see the "regular" XB360 going for more than $300 (this is assuming that there is more than one version of XB360, which there probably will be). $300 is the "magic threshhold" - above that amount and too many people will say it's too expensive - I don't think MS is that dumb to price themselves out of the market.

Obraxis
05-13-2005, 01:35 AM
That is because the XB1 was essentially a PC - the XB360 is far from that. I would think that people are going to have a hard time getting LINUX to run on those 3 CPUs. I am sure it will eventually get cracked, but my guess is that it is going to be no small feat.

The Xbox 360 Dev kits were Apple G5s with a ATi Radeon 9800XT, then moved to the X800 series.

Apple G5 processores are virtualy the same as teh ones powering the Xbox 360, and teh GFX card is going to be similar to the cards in Apples/PCs today. And since people already have multi-threaded Linux distro's on the Apple G5's now, I dont see it being much of a problem getting Linux running on the 360. Only need a bit of time, and a few creative people. :)

mlaoxve
05-13-2005, 01:39 AM
Xbox2 might probably lose in a big way on using the double layered dvd, the ps3 is supposed to be using a blueray 27gb. If hollywood decides that blueray dvds is the next dvd they will use for their movies, ps3 will be at a huge advantage. If not it will just be a small one.

its me.

tdamcbigity
05-13-2005, 01:48 AM
Wow, I must say Ghost Recon does look pretty slick, though does anyone else notice the shadow inconsistency? I'm so cautious about all this now, especially after seeing that Next-Gen Madden Preview. Tricky business is aboot.

Although it's so easy (ahem, with some imposturous models) to render something in Max or Maya now and say that it'll be the next generation of real-time video graphics.

Personally I don't want games to delve too deeply into photo-realism, it's one thing to shoot polygonal characters that are stylized but when they get to that point where things pass as realistic I might just move to Sweden and paint goats and ladies.

Personal feelings aside it looks neat.

silvergun
05-13-2005, 02:03 AM
I can't believe it, the machines just been unveiled (officially) and theres people already talking about installing linux on this thing and turning it into a render beast. :thumbsup:

DevilHacker
05-13-2005, 02:15 AM
Only DVD for the media though.
From looking at the papers, it looks like the Optical Drive is a 2x layer DVD player…
That’s more than enough to store a game.

LiquidMetal
05-13-2005, 02:16 AM
Saw this over at Teamxbox forums.

http://msxb.wmod.llnwd.net/a274/o2/ourcolony/TheColony_v1_750k.wmv

rkv
05-13-2005, 02:28 AM
good stuff a nice translation wud be ncie though ;)

Lord3d2
05-13-2005, 02:57 AM
Just watched the MTV show, was great. Cant wait to see more of it at E3

Shade01
05-13-2005, 03:01 AM
The MTV show sucked. It felt like Geraldo's Al Capone's vault all over again.

chow-mein
05-13-2005, 03:03 AM
Are the vendors taking pre-orders for this bad boy yet?

SheepFactory
05-13-2005, 03:03 AM
hahahaha

So how was the MTV show?

a)Yes

B)No

novadude
05-13-2005, 03:07 AM
The MTV show displayed the console for <30 seconds, and gave no details about its hardware or capabilities. They showcased the model carrying the thing out and the gamers that went to England longer than they did on the system itself.

Hazdaz
05-13-2005, 03:36 AM
The MTV show displayed the console for <30 seconds, and gave no details about its hardware or capabilities. They showcased the model carrying the thing out and the gamers that went to England longer than they did on the system itself.

We ARE talking about MTV, aren't we?! Did you actually expect an in-depth expose on it's hardware and software specifications?!?

As much as I despise that channel, it would have been nice to atleast see it - but alas MTV doesn't really come in too good on my TV.

poly-phobic
05-13-2005, 04:05 AM
I can't believe it, the machines just been unveiled (officially) and theres people already talking about installing linux on this thing and turning it into a render beast. :thumbsup:

yea. screw all the hype, a $399 price tag is pretty good . i heard ppl made farms from the original xobxes, but the hardware was not worth it at the time of what was available.
now its a whole new ball game. :) this machine is a beast.
$399 for
3 x IBM Power PC 3.2 ghz

Graphics:
Specially build ATI 500 mhz
10 mb of embedded RAM
512 mb GDDR3 RAM
....
imagine a budget of $5k [including rendering software license seats]
or better yet, using default renderer your package comes with :D
not too shabby

novadude
05-13-2005, 04:11 AM
We ARE talking about MTV, aren't we?! Did you actually expect an in-depth expose on it's hardware and software specifications?!?

As much as I despise that channel, it would have been nice to atleast see it - but alas MTV doesn't really come in too good on my TV.

I was hoping for a little more than "it has removable face plates and wireless controllers"

Zack Attack
05-13-2005, 04:15 AM
Hey guys the sites already up http://www.xbox360.com/ and Dead or alive 4 http://www.xboxyde.com/news_1483_en.html#

superlayer
05-13-2005, 04:16 AM
Well it so happens that I am danish and they did mention in the article that they WONT make the same mistake on price as they did the first time.
So eventually that means the pricepoint will definitely be lower than the first time around.

plunq
05-13-2005, 04:27 AM
Check this xbox 360 title! Everything is destructible! It looks so awesome! http://www.gamespot.com/x360/action/fullauto/preview_6124213.html

Air.Borne
05-13-2005, 04:28 AM
Just an FYI ...

EB Games is supposed to start taking preorders on this at the close of E3 next week.

Gamoron
05-13-2005, 04:30 AM
Well. I didn't see MTV yet. Don't get the channel. But I watched the colony link posted and I'm checking the website now. I have to say this is one really aggressive marketing campaign and they are saying a lot of sweet stuff.

Very curious to see what the other 2 do. And where the hell is the phamtom in all this? That thing is dead in the water now I think.

superlayer
05-13-2005, 04:36 AM
The games I have seen so far including dead or alive and and fullauto look nothing like I would expect from a nextgen game.
I could easily be fooled into thinking they are just ordinary xbox 1 games.

Crithon
05-13-2005, 04:45 AM
The MTV special was complete rubbish. Personally I think some of the online sites provided me enough on the system. Personally, I'm eager for Mistwalker's upcoming game Blue Dragon, it's interisting to see how Japanese game developers handle this system.

Gamoron - this is the Infinium Lab's upcoming Phantom game system

http://hardware.gamespot.com/Infinium-Labs-Phantom-Game-Receiver-15158-O-4-6

http://www.infiniumlabs.com/

Gein
05-13-2005, 04:48 AM
Official Xbox 360 Fact Sheet (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/factsheet.htm)

SheepFactory
05-13-2005, 04:58 AM
Check out this game guys:

www.alanwake.com

*drool

PhilOsirus
05-13-2005, 05:00 AM
Man that Slim Silver PS2 is sure slim and silvery!

SheepFactory
05-13-2005, 05:26 AM
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/118/927943_20050429_screen008.jpg



http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/118/927943_20050429_screen009.jpg


wow.....

superlayer
05-13-2005, 05:28 AM
Sheep Factory:

NOW WE ARE TALKING!!!
MY GOD....

Tonedef
05-13-2005, 05:38 AM
XB360 is looking 100000x better than I had expected....and 3 3.2gh processors!!! OMG....and I like how every controller is both wireless and wired!

Coliba
05-13-2005, 05:55 AM
To turn it into a decent render box, wouldn't you need at least 2gb ram in it? Can you add more? Otherwise, what's the point of trying to make linux ports and all that?

morimitsu
05-13-2005, 05:58 AM
3 x IBM Power PC 3.2 ghz!!!
I can't believe, the next xbox is probably 3 times faster than my worksation!!!:scream:

Shogmaster
05-13-2005, 06:10 AM
3 x IBM Power PC 3.2 ghz!!!
I can't believe, the next xbox is probably 3 times faster than my worksation!!!:scream:

Guys, the XB360 CPU is a custom version of PPC core that's missing most of the OOOE logics. Trying to get your OOOE (Out of Order Execution) Windows/Linux/OSX code to run on it would be an excruciatingly slow experience.

Signal2Noise
05-13-2005, 06:11 AM
XBox Revealed will be shown on cable TV here in about 90 minutes (12:30 a.m. MST). Can't wait. It's too bad I cancelled my shaMeTV a long while ago but at least regular televison is carrying it after the fact.

No matter the prognosis, XBox 360 is already on my XMas list.:bounce:

WhiteRabbitObj
05-13-2005, 06:17 AM
Those pics Sheep Factory posted are pretty amazing. The one with the guy writing a ticket or something next to the yellow truck I did a double take on... didn't actually realize it was CG at first. Not photo-realistic or anything, but convincing enough for a glance...

But I will believe those pics when I see something like that in a game. I find that exceptionally hard to swallow that games will look that good anytime soon.


[edit] But man, if GTA4 looks anything like that...? Not going to be able to pry me away from the TV for quite some time, I'd reckon.

Geta-Ve
05-13-2005, 06:24 AM
those are cool pics, however they are the exact same pics that ign shows as the ps3 version, so we all need to assume those are beauty shots and not actual in game shots

Larry_g1s
05-13-2005, 06:48 AM
Looks like Xbox 1.5 to me. :shrug: Updated graphics, but nothing much else new to the gaming experience. I'll wait to see what Sony and Nintendo show at E3.

I do like the pics that sheep factory posted.

Tonedef
05-13-2005, 07:03 AM
go to http://www.gametrailers.com and see a bunch of xb360 trailers and you will see it adds alot to console gameplay!

Coliba
05-13-2005, 07:12 AM
If you take away the ambient occlusion in those pics, you have more or less what games look like now already.

heavyness
05-13-2005, 07:40 AM
the Steel Monkeys pics are not running on any hardware. last i read, its 2 [maybe more] guys trying to get the game made and i don't even think they have a publisher yet.


as for the MTV special, well, what were you expecting? this wasn't made for the gamers out there. this was made for the kids and the general public to see. all the gamers already saw the pics of the system. us gamers get to see it at E3.


basically, i would buy the xbox 360 even if it wasn't a game system. has a lot of options and capabilities and would be a welcomed addition to my family room. can't freakin wait.

Schwinnz
05-13-2005, 07:51 AM
If you take away the ambient occlusion in those pics, you have more or less what games look like now already.

Totally but this still adds to games.

http://www.tml.hut.fi/~janne/aofields/ for a good read on real time ambient occlusion

Renderman_XSI
05-13-2005, 08:03 AM
Looks like Xbox 1.5 to me. :shrug: Updated graphics, but nothing much else new to the gaming experience. I'll wait to see what Sony and Nintendo show at E3.

I do like the pics that sheep factory posted.

Ditto, i thought it was a April fools joke..thats how disappoint the XBOX 360 games look like. Im just gonna call it XBOX 1.5, thats what the graphics reflect. I expect more from Nintendo and Sony though. Looks like Microsoft shoot themselve in the foot, coming out earlier than the competition(Dreamcast anyone)? :D

long term prediction: Microsoft drops of the the console business, after loosing marketshare from Nintendo and Sony.

Wintermute
05-13-2005, 08:09 AM
yes this looks pretty cool
I do wonder how the hell they're cooling this thing. The G5 towers (2.5-2.7GHz) use massive heat sinks with water cooling..this has 3x 3.2GHz PPC 970 (G5) processors in that tiny little case. Either they're lying about the processor speed, or this will sound something like a B-52 on takeoff.

<OT>
for those who don't know american military hardware..a B-52 heavy bomber has 8 water injected turbojet engines it is incredibly loud, especially on takeoff. :eek:

although with speeds like that, will we see significantly faster G5s this june? or have they found a way to cool them enough for a G5 powerbook?

one way or another, the hardware in this should find it's way into macs, which with any luck will make an exciting keynote at the WWDC :D
</OT>

GR3 looks sweet, hoping PGR3 and rallisport challenge 3 get that kind of boost (they kick @$$ already) Halo 3... :buttrock:

dang, all the games I want to see are sequels!

Oh yeah, I want the big controllers back too! maybe my friends and I can hack together a wireless module for the old controllers :banghead:

WhiteRabbitObj
05-13-2005, 08:12 AM
LOL, out come the wolves...

What major improvements to gaming were had moving from any console to any console? There's never been some miraculous jump that was lightyears beyond the previous console. It's always evolutionary steps. Anyone who expected more from XBox 2 is living in some nice dream world.

long term prediction: Microsoft drops of the the console business, after loosing marketshare from Nintendo and Sony. Today 02:51 AM

Counter-prediction which is far more likely: Microsoft gains a huge foothold by being out a year early (Same thing PS2 did, even though it is the most technically inferior system of this generation), Microsoft lines up a much larger line of developers this time...

most importantly: Microsoft has nearly unlimited money to continue in the video game business and will do so because that market will continue to grow, unlike the OS market.

Tonedef
05-13-2005, 08:14 AM
yes this looks pretty cool
I do wonder how the hell they're cooling this thing. The G5 towers (2.5-2.7GHz) use massive heat sinks with water cooling..this has 3x 3.2GHz PPC 970 (G5) processors in that tiny little case. Either they're lying about the processor speed, or this will sound something like a B-52 on takeoff.

In that vid posted on page 3 they point out that is it water cooled ;)

WhiteRabbitObj
05-13-2005, 08:18 AM
Yeh... a water-cooled mass produced home entertainment system. Sound like a warranty fiasco waiting to happen to anyone else?

halo
05-13-2005, 08:23 AM
Yeh... a water-cooled mass produced home entertainment system. Sound like a warranty fiasco waiting to happen to anyone else?

didn't trouble the dreamcast.

heavyness
05-13-2005, 08:27 AM
www.xbox360.com

and check this out...

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/peripheralsfactsheet.htm


there are 2 xbox360 controllers. wireless and none, well wired controller. personally, when i play, i'm close to the screen, no use for wireless. i like how they are giving you an option. i guess these would plug into one of the three USB ports on the system [guessing that is what is behind the oval shaped panel on the bottom].

also, no more Black and White buttons! more shoulder/trigger buttons! yeah!

Loosecontroll
05-13-2005, 08:29 AM
"Ditto, i thought it was a April fools joke..thats how disappoint the XBOX 360 games look like. Im just gonna call it XBOX 1.5, thats what the graphics reflect. I expect more from Nintendo and Sony though. Looks like Microsoft shoot themselve in the foot, coming out earlier than the competition(Dreamcast anyone)? :D

long term prediction: Microsoft drops of the the console business, after loosing marketshare from Nintendo and Sony."




You obviously havn't seen many of the vids posted.
Have you seen Gears of war, Project Gotham 3 or the next NFS game. The graphics are amazing.

Shogmaster
05-13-2005, 08:35 AM
Oh great.... Anti XBox trolls even over here. See if these look 1.5 ish to you:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/Shogmaster/Miz360game.jpg
http://www.gameinformer.com/images/media/{A96188BB-B636-4711-A85A-5908B655C7C2}/Barricade.jpg

Coliba
05-13-2005, 08:42 AM
Totally but this still adds to games.

http://www.tml.hut.fi/~janne/aofields/ (http://www.tml.hut.fi/%7Ejanne/aofields/) for a good read on real time ambient occlusion

Yes, I totally agree. I ment that those pics look so nice, because of the ambient occlusion. Take that away and you have about the same level of graphics as we already have, even on a PC.

That's a very interesting link, thanks.

Tonedef
05-13-2005, 08:43 AM
You obviously havn't seen many of the vids posted.
Have you seen Gears of war, Project Gotham 3 or the next NFS game. The graphics are amazing.


I wanna see some PGR3 shots!!!

Loosecontroll
05-13-2005, 08:53 AM
Dunno if shots have been released but a video has..check mtv website for links to vids to lots of new games.

PGR3 looks stunning.
Also check Epics new game...trust me it's far beyond any current console games.

Solothores
05-13-2005, 09:06 AM
Well to be honest, I am sure the xbox2 will be a success. as somebody already pointed out, this is not just a fight about consoles, this is a battle campaign about being premium choice as media center within the livingroom of the current and future target group that has the most purchasing power, so I guess the marketing power flanking the xbox360 will be tremendous.

Comparing "Dreamcast" to "xbox360" or "Sega" to "MS" thus is a dangerous understatement imho, a lot has changed since then. Especially when it comes down to ambitions and visions. Many companies underestimated MS in the past and I am kinda surprised that ppl still do it now.

Cheers
Solo

Foyle
05-13-2005, 10:02 AM
Not sure if this is the best place to post this, but this crowd at least has probably seen what I'm talking about.

I modeled and animated the ant at the beginning of the ourcolony.net video. I've been bursting at the seams to tell anyone that I was working on this last month in the evenings after my day job (and no sleep, how rare for animators, huh?) but as you can imagine, it was top secret. I got the ant job only a week after starting my new day job, so I wasn't about to take off any time, making it was harder than it probably should've been.

I'll try and post better frames soon in the XSI forum, but almost all of my stuff is in passes and in .pic format right now (I wasn't the one who comped it). But here's a frame from when I was checking out how the eye glow was working... (before particles were added)

http://www.cgtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70797&stc=1

I did it in XSI 4.2, and except for the reflection maps, it's all geometry, no textures. Which is probably obvious except for the compound eye. There were two shots originally (which were finished) and they were rendered in HD (1280x720). They were part of a larger effects gag. But most of that was eventually cut, and only that one shot remained...

Anyway, hope you guys liked it.

-Foyle

Moonblood
05-13-2005, 10:49 AM
the performance jump will be great using the new ati chips

harlan_hill
05-13-2005, 11:08 AM
this has 3x 3.2GHz PPC 970 (G5) processors in that tiny little case.



Well, it's actually 1 processor with 3 cores, and it's not a PPC 970 (G5) chip. It's a PowerPC chip, yes, but so are G3's & G4's. The PowerPC is a reference to the architecture behind the processor, and the chip itself is a custom fabbed chip specifically for the XBox360 not related to the G5 chip's found in Apple computers.

While the developer platform for the Xbox360 is a PowerMac G5 computer, it's used because it's built on the PowerPC architecture rather than the chip being the same as that found in the XBox360.

I don't mean for that to sound mean spirited, although it may come across that way.

Psyhke
05-13-2005, 11:23 AM
Anyone thinking XBOX 360 only offers some sort of 'incremental' advance has got to be smoking something. I mean, don't even think about it in terms of who is manufacturing it, if that helps you any. Abstract it. Just look at the pure numbers:

(1) PIII 733 Mhz --> (3) X 3.2 Ghz PowerPC
GeForce 3 era Vid Card --> Vid card beyond anything currently available
64 MB --> 512 MB

Etc, etc...

If you were a game developer and someone presented just these simple facts to you, and said 'okay here is the new level of device you can develop for' -- would you say 'meh, that's a little better I guess, maybe I could do a tiny, incremental bit more with that'? I can't fathom how.

Which brings me back to what I personally feel about next-gen gaming in general: The onus is now on the developers, not the hardware makers. If you see a screen shot, or animation, or gameplay, and say to yourself 'that looks and feels and exactly like what the current gen consoles could do', then the responsibility for that lies with the game developers and not the hardware developer at that point. This is equally applicable to Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo platforms. If a game developer can't make a richer, better looking, more engaging experience on the new XBOX hardware (given the blatent increase in horsepower and resources available to them), then how in the world would they be expected do so on a platform that has resources beyond even that? I don't think they would, is my point.

In summary, the ball is now in the game developers court. Not the hardware makers.

Shogmaster
05-13-2005, 11:25 AM
Well, it's actually 1 processor with 3 cores, and it's not a PPC 970 (G5) chip. It's a PowerPC chip, yes, but so are G3's & G4's. The PowerPC is a reference to the architecture behind the processor, and the chip itself is a custom fabbed chip specifically for the XBox360 not related to the G5 chip's found in Apple computers.


Actually, it's related to the 970. Imagine 970FX stripped of most of OOOE logics, then triple core it sharing one 1MB L2 cache pool.

Taking out most of the OOOE logics makes the core much smaller, allowing for tri core configuration and higher clock rate. Obcourse the moment you ask this chip to do OOOE stuff, it's choke city. So everyone can forget about dreams of turning X360 into a workstation (same with Sony's Cell which is also missing OOOE capabilities).

tozz
05-13-2005, 11:27 AM
From looking at the papers, it looks like the Optical Drive is a 2x layer DVD player…
That’s more than enough to store a game.

Not really, look at a RPG from SquareEnix for example that fills 9gig today, now increase resolution on all the textures,in-game content and change the movies to HD. 9gig feels abit puny, especially when you're using it in 2010.

Geta-Ve
05-13-2005, 11:41 AM
Not really, look at a RPG from SquareEnix for example that fills 9gig today, now increase resolution on all the textures,in-game content and change the movies to HD. 9gig feels abit puny, especially when you're using it in 2010.

exactly, and consider (even though its a rumour) Kingdom Hearts 2 is using 2 DVDS!!! thats insane! 18gigs for a ps2 game..!

honestly! :D

btw whoever showed those 2 shots (one being unreal) you honestly think the games will look that good? beauty renders. im willing to bet my career (or lack there of) on it.

tozz
05-13-2005, 11:44 AM
SquareEnix used 2DVD for another recent RPG too, but they were 4gig discs, cheaper according to someone. Still, DVD isn't storage enough imo :)

Geta-Ve
05-13-2005, 11:46 AM
ohh.. then maybe im wrong.. hrmmm

halo
05-13-2005, 12:56 PM
on the xbox site it says "each" core runs at 3.2ghz

dmonk
05-13-2005, 01:18 PM
I'm a die hard sony ps guy, I think I'm definitely gonna get an X-box 2 as well. This stuff looks amazing and the stats for the console sound great!

Supervlieg
05-13-2005, 01:25 PM
Dont think these were posted here. DOA4 leaked pics.

http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/2871111565598533.JPG?0.1669629385854542

More and bigger here http://www.gaming-age.com/news/2005/5/12-48

Darknon
05-13-2005, 01:47 PM
what.. I'm the only Dane in here? .. Oh well.... I'll see if I have the time to translate all that stuff tonight...

Calveccio
05-13-2005, 02:22 PM
will xbox360 play xbox 1 games?:shrug:

Darknon
05-13-2005, 02:25 PM
Yes it will :)

Calveccio
05-13-2005, 02:31 PM
...that is great news :buttrock:

Darknon
05-13-2005, 02:39 PM
NO WAIT!!!

I must have gotten my info from some wrong place... the thing is, nobody know yet. Maybe it's in that article on the first page, I dont know.. I'll find out, no worries :)

PhilOsirus
05-13-2005, 02:48 PM
Don't expect it to play Xbox1 games because MS would have made a big deal out of it. So far the only game that impresses me is Ghost Recon 3 and it looked like cut-scenes, realtime yes, but "faked" gameplay to give us an idea of how it plays. If it is gameplay then it's awsome.

novadude
05-13-2005, 03:31 PM
Keep in mind that these games aren't finished yet (police cars weren't textured beyond the bare white and black paint in one shot on the MTV thing), and as always the first round of games for a new console are never as pretty as what starts coming out towards the end of its life cycle.

I hope that there is a way to have system link in a reasonable space with all of those wireless controllers, and only three USB ports on each system.

We'll hear more about whether or not it can play Xbox games at E3, which is where we'll get the details that we want and not just marketing games.

Wintermute
05-13-2005, 03:45 PM
considering the dramatic shift in architecture, microsoft would have to make one heck of an emulator to play xbox 1 games. with 3 cores to work with though, one could run the emu on one and the game code on the others..but I'm no programmer and could be completely off base with that idea.

just let me use the old full size controllers!

Solothores
05-13-2005, 03:46 PM
From the MTV presentation about 15sec Quake4 footage:
http://media.xboxyde.com/torrent/teaser_mtv_quake4.avi.torrent

All other clips can be found here (http://www.xboxyde.com/news_1494_en.html)

or

you can just download the whole game part of the presentation here (http://www.xboxyde.com/leech_1279_en.html)

Condemned (http://www.xboxyde.com/news_1488_en.html), a FPS with a survival horror touch developed by Monolith. (3 Movies)


Enjoy.



Cheers
Solo

Neil
05-13-2005, 04:03 PM
I like how the guys like "our system can go horizontal... or vertical!"
Omg i just crapped my pants. Oh wait. Ps2 does that now :)

http://msxb.wmod.llnwd.net/a274/o2/ourcolony/TheColony_v1_750k.wmv

I think the system looks slick and streamlined... dunno about the controller yet, would have to actually hold it. Not a fan of white controllers though, they get stained and dirty with all your hand grim.

SpiralFace
05-13-2005, 04:16 PM
looks like It will be easyer to stack other systems on top of it as well. A big plus for someone like me that whould rather just stick them all in a single cabinet on top of eachother instead of finding your each systems own space. I'll wait till I see what those 10 launch titles are to see if I'll just wait or get it when it comes out. I'm sorry, but Halo 2.5 is not enough for me to want to run out and snag that thing up. Ecpecialy if its not backwards compatable.

Signal2Noise
05-13-2005, 04:27 PM
I stayed up until 12:30 a.m. to watch the "unveiling" special on local cable TV. I must say that was without a doubt the worst coverage ever!!! It was a pretty lame program. Hopefully E3 coverage will be better.

I'm still getting a 360 when it comes out, tho'. :thumbsup:

tozz
05-13-2005, 05:01 PM
Some of those DOA4 screens look really sweet, played a bunch of DOA2 on DC and PS2, fun as hell. However, some models look like crap, of course you'll have to see it in motion and play it before saying too much (and they look like beta shots).

The boring part is all those "PC Games", give me some real console action please :D (I consider FPS to be PC Games since they're lightyears ahead of consoles in terms of playability)

L.Rawlins
05-13-2005, 05:17 PM
A thought just popped into my head. Do you think Apple would ever create a games console?

With the eventual progression of their iPod to play more and more indepth games on the move whilst listening to your favourite tunes... it would be a logical progression for the company to play a few choice cards in this sector.

Maybe. Maybe not.

It was just a pondering that I had. :shrug:

...

Yourworstnightmare
05-13-2005, 05:18 PM
This is an amazing product and all, but it bothers me that they pretty much used all the companies that nintendo used for hardware for the gamecube to make the xbox 360's hardware. In my opinion nintendo is still the best game company, their products are made for the consumer and not for profit, like say the ps2.

Larry_g1s
05-13-2005, 05:54 PM
I like how the guys like "our system can go horizontal... or vertical!"
Omg i just crapped my pants. Oh wait. Ps2 does that now :)

It's stuff like this (vertical/horizonal stand - PS2) and wireless controllers (GameCube Wavebird) that made me say it's Xbox 1.5, they've been done before. It just goes to show MS still lacks innovation, but know how to capitalize on existing good ideas. It's just their beefed up machine to be 1st out of the gates, and I don't know if it's worth $300-$400 to play games with prettier graphics so soon.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the hardware specs & such, some of the supposed screenshots of games look gorgeous. It's just with 2 other competitors in the market, who can achieve pretty graphics also, I'm still going to wait and see what Nintendo and Sony do before I'd make any deceicisions.

Wintermute
05-13-2005, 06:02 PM
A thought just popped into my head. Do you think Apple would ever create a games console

Apple had a console concept (over 10) years ago called the Pippin. It seemed to be pretty cool, but it went nowhere-especially when it was trying to come out into a market dominated by Sega and Nintendo (I don't remember if the playstation was out at the time yet).

:beer:

SheepFactory
05-13-2005, 06:02 PM
In my opinion nintendo is still the best game company, their products are made for the consumer and not for profit, like say the ps2.


hahaha...ahaahahaha...AAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHA...AHAHAHAHAHA :p

sorry that was funny :)

iocomposer
05-13-2005, 06:05 PM
Weird that they're using G5 processors and yet the top of the line Apple caps out at 2.7Ghz. Not to mention that those machines need a very elaborate liquid cooling + mondo fan system. If MS was somehow able to break through the same moore's law that Apples been banging their heads on the past year or so and bump it up to 3.2Ghz, then why hasn't Apple put out a more powerful system with the same chips? Also, since the heat of these chips are such an issue, how is it that MS is cooling down 3 of them in such a small box?

Something isn't quite adding up here.

Sil3
05-13-2005, 06:05 PM
... their products are made for the consumer and not for profit, like say the ps2.

ROTFLOL...man learn something, nobody is making games for u or your friends just because u might be nice guys and all...everything is sold to make money, if not they would be free or dirty cheap only covering expenses...

novadude
05-13-2005, 06:24 PM
Something isn't quite adding up here.

What doesn't add up is why when everyone sees "PowerPC" they automatically assume that it is the heat troubled G5. It's not the same, and several hot running parts have been removed because they aren't needed on a game console with the ability to execute six threads simultaneously.

PhilOsirus
05-13-2005, 07:36 PM
According to reports the Xbox 360 is liquid-cooled.

hundredthirtyseven
05-13-2005, 08:07 PM
If somebody hacks a Linux or a MacOS on this then we'll have very nice rendering power for 400 dollars!

BrianSchultz
05-13-2005, 08:10 PM
Xbox 360 specs on Gamasutra.com
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=5498

Shogmaster
05-13-2005, 08:11 PM
If somebody hacks a Linux or a MacOS on this then we'll have very nice rendering power for 400 dollars!

Nobody ever read the whole thread, do they? I give up.

DaJuice
05-13-2005, 09:04 PM
lol, one guy going: "look people, they took out all the out-of-order execution stuff, so you can't really use it for general purpose computing", and five guys after that: "score! cheap renderfarm, yeah!!"

Signal2Noise
05-13-2005, 09:06 PM
According to reports the Xbox 360 is liquid-cooled.

Yeah, liquid cooled with APPLE JUICE!

Sorry, couldn't resist! :D

harlan_hill
05-13-2005, 09:38 PM
I've heard rumors of it being liquid cooled as well, but it would be hard to believe that they'd ship a gaming console with a liquid cooling unit inside (as reliable as the cooling units are, they still have a tendency to leak, etc...). The videos of the unit show a large fan attached to the processor but no visible liquid cooling unit. Would be interesting though.

harlan_hill
05-13-2005, 09:41 PM
ROTFLOL...man learn something, nobody is making games for u or your friends just because u might be nice guys and all...everything is sold to make money, if not they would be free or dirty cheap only covering expenses...

Absolutely. However gaming consoles have a slightly different aspect to them - the manufacturers have stated in the past that they don't make money off of the consoles themselves, they make it off of the software/games. One of the reasons game consoles are so cheap in comparison to their PC counterparts, is that they're being sold for very very slightly more than cost itself. Mathematically speaking, they tend to lose money on the hardware, but they more than make up for it in game, licensing, & software sales.

harlan_hill
05-13-2005, 09:42 PM
lol, one guy going: "look people, they took out all the out-of-order execution stuff, so you can't really use it for general purpose computing", and five guys after that: "score! cheap renderfarm, yeah!!"


LOL!!! I was thinking the same thing.

harlan_hill
05-13-2005, 09:43 PM
Weird that they're using G5 processors and yet the top of the line Apple caps out at 2.7Ghz. Something isn't quite adding up here.


They're not G5 processors - they're PowerPC chips.

novadude
05-13-2005, 09:43 PM
cooled with APPLE JUICE!

:banghead:

If it is a completely closed loop like what the G5 PMs use, then it should be no problem. It would use completely distilled+deionized water with an anti-corrosion agent running from the CPU block to the radiator with a pump somewhere in the "loop," which would be solid pipes instead of rubber hoses (which is where the leaks would occur)

harlan_hill
05-13-2005, 09:47 PM
:banghead:

If it is a completely closed loop like what the G5 PMs use, then it should be no problem. It would use completely distilled+deionized water with an anti-corrosion agent running from the CPU block to the radiator with a pump somewhere in the "loop," which would be solid pipes instead of rubber hoses (which is where the leaks would occur)

Yeah, if it actually does use liquid cooling, then that's definitely the route they would take. Even though they use solid pipes, the cooling systems can still leak (although very rare, some people have had their G5 PM's leak and they're pretty much in a fixed position).

I'm not saying it doesn't have liquid cooling, would definitely be cool if it did (no pun intended) - it just seems like it would be a hassle for a gaming console.

Geta-Ve
05-13-2005, 10:06 PM
ugh.. the more and more screens of games i see the more and more im not liking this next gen thing (perhaps its only xb360 though) doa4 looks good?! to who? your grandmother?! as well as PDZ.. crap, the only game that looks really good, hoping they aren't beauty shots of course, is ghost recon.. the unreal screens are most definatly beauty renders, and if anyone wants to argue that be my guest you will all see when the game actually comes out (console that is)

you know what doa4 reminds me of? the bouncer for ps2. with just more AA and crisper colors. the end.

however if games are going to look as good as GR then i am truly blown away and impressed. (however I doubt that alot..)

oh well we still have about 6 months sooo we will see.

Gamoron
05-13-2005, 10:11 PM
http://www.hellogamer.com/2005/05/13/xbox-360-prototypes/

SheepFactory
05-13-2005, 10:17 PM
ugh.. the more and more screens of games i see the more and more im not liking this next gen thing (perhaps its only xb360 though) doa4 looks good?! to who? your grandmother?! as well as PDZ.. crap, the only game that looks really good, hoping they aren't beauty shots of course, is ghost recon.. the unreal screens are most definatly beauty renders, and if anyone wants to argue that be my guest you will all see when the game actually comes out (console that is)

you know what doa4 reminds me of? the bouncer for ps2. with just more AA and crisper colors. the end.

however if games are going to look as good as GR then i am truly blown away and impressed. (however I doubt that alot..)

oh well we still have about 6 months sooo we will see.


take a look at the first gamecube games and then take a look at resident evil 4. same goes for ps2. Launch titles hardly utilize the full potential of the system , i am sure we'll see some crazy games for all the next gen systems sooner or later. Also frankly i'd much rather have good games then good looking games. It seems most of you have the idea right now that if any games that is coming out look anything less then unreal 3 , it must be bad!

RmachucaA
05-13-2005, 10:27 PM
http://media.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/1091/726_0001.jpg

Shrink
05-13-2005, 10:57 PM
It'll be at least a couple of years until we see games that utilise what the new consoles are capable of. The best looking games (graphically) for the Xbox have only come out in 2005.

novadude
05-13-2005, 10:59 PM
Maybe they will use something like this:
Liquid Metal Cooling (http://www.nanocoolers.com/technology_liquid.php)

Geta-Ve
05-13-2005, 11:00 PM
take a look at the first gamecube games and then take a look at resident evil 4. same goes for ps2. Launch titles hardly utilize the full potential of the system , i am sure we'll see some crazy games for all the next gen systems sooner or later. Also frankly i'd much rather have good games then good looking games. It seems most of you have the idea right now that if any games that is coming out look anything less then unreal 3 , it must be bad!

nono, not at all, i know your right for sure. its just when consoles start claiming u3 gfx i can only help but get on the defensive as i know things wont look that good.. (off the bat that is)

ah well.. im just contradicting myself :p

harlan_hill
05-13-2005, 11:08 PM
Cool. So apparently they are using Liquid Cooling in it. Very interesting; hard to believe (not from a technical standpoint, just from a whiny when wet consumer complaint standpoint). :)

I think the XB360 unit looks horrible, but the guts sound great. Hopefully there'll be some good games for it.

As someone else mentioned here, The 360 is not really innovative, but it should be a really nice unit.

Neil
05-13-2005, 11:12 PM
I'm not saying it doesn't have liquid cooling, would definitely be cool if it did (no pun intended) - it just seems like it would be a hassle for a gaming console.

It does have "water cooling", they said so in the video! (i already posted this link, just click it this time)
http://msxb.wmod.llnwd.net/a274/o2/...ony_v1_750k.wmv

Just read the damn posts jeez.

L.Rawlins
05-13-2005, 11:27 PM
Am I the only one seriously underwhelmed by a 20gb harddrive? I mean... they don't even ship those in PC's anymore.

...

Maybe thats the point. Maybe it's excess stock. :D

DuttyFoot
05-13-2005, 11:47 PM
the specs for the xbox look really good. i thought some of the game footage from the mtv was pretty amazing but it made me wonder if they were really ingame.
i pray that we will get new games with these next gen systems and not just a bunch of remakes

Kion
05-14-2005, 12:04 AM
gh.. the more and more screens of games i see the more and more im not liking this next gen thing (perhaps its only xb360 though) doa4 looks good?! to who? your grandmother?! as well as PDZ.. crap, the only game that looks really good, hoping they aren't beauty shots of course, is ghost recon.. the unreal screens are most definatly beauty renders, and if anyone wants to argue that be my guest you will all see when the game actually comes out (console that is)

you know what doa4 reminds me of? the bouncer for ps2. with just more AA and crisper colors. the end.

however if games are going to look as good as GR then i am truly blown away and impressed. (however I doubt that alot..)

oh well we still have about 6 months sooo we will see.



Just saw some new demos for xbox 360. Un fricken believable, just wait for E3

harlan_hill
05-14-2005, 12:17 AM
Just read the damn posts jeez.

Yeah, maybe you should try and read my post directly above yours!! :)

jeez! ;)

SheepFactory
05-14-2005, 01:02 AM
http://media.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/1091/726_0001.jpg







That is not ingame is it?

Shogmaster
05-14-2005, 01:20 AM
That is not ingame is it?

That's in game engine running on alpha dev kits (which means it'll run very slowly). No final hardware footages yet, but that shot should be running at a HDTV near you by November.

Hazdaz
05-14-2005, 01:25 AM
Am I the only one seriously underwhelmed by a 20gb harddrive? I mean... they don't even ship those in PC's anymore.

Umm.. you do realize that the harddrive will basically be used for the same purpose that it was used in the orignal XB. NOT to "install" a game - an antiquated technique that only PCs require - but to save games and caching info and storing personal music and other similiar info while the actual game data is obviously still left on the DVD.

amygdalae
05-14-2005, 02:55 AM
The Xbox 360 Dev kits were Apple G5s with a ATi Radeon 9800XT, then moved to the X800 series.

Apple G5 processores are virtualy the same as teh ones powering the Xbox 360, and teh GFX card is going to be similar to the cards in Apples/PCs today. And since people already have multi-threaded Linux distro's on the Apple G5's now, I dont see it being much of a problem getting Linux running on the 360. Only need a bit of time, and a few creative people. :)

Lemme know how that works out for you.
I dont see it being much fun to get linux running on an xbox 360.
Even if you could get past all the technical hurdles and annoyances...
What on earth are you going to use as a renderer on your powerPC linux machine?
Open source renderman compliant renderers are pretty much your only choice.

Doesnt make it terribly useful in my view. About as useful as having linux on a powerful mac mini. I can uh.. Run 'vi'.

NeptuneImaging
05-14-2005, 03:24 AM
I just wonder if I can play the X360 on my tv though...I just want to buy the console...

Shogmaster
05-14-2005, 03:25 AM
Lemme know how that works out for you.
I dont see it being much fun to get linux running on an xbox 360.
Even if you could get past all the technical hurdles and annoyances...
What on earth are you going to use as a renderer on your powerPC linux machine?
Open source renderman compliant renderers are pretty much your only choice.

Doesnt make it terribly useful in my view. About as useful as having linux on a powerful mac mini. I can uh.. Run 'vi'.

He is full of shit. The Xenon CPU is far from G5 x3 @ 3.2ghz. It's missing most of the OOOE logics. That's how IBM was able to stuff 3 cores and clock it up to 3.2Ghz. Most of the software we use rely heavily on OOOE code. Running those code on XB360 will feel like running OS5 Palm app on the first Palm Pilot.

Signal2Noise
05-14-2005, 04:07 AM
Am I the only one seriously underwhelmed by a 20gb harddrive? I mean... they don't even ship those in PC's anymore.... :D

The specced 20GB is there merely for game saves and some multimedia content. I doubt your original XBox hard drive got full and it is only half the size (or a bit smaller depending which issue of XBox you got) of the 360. Besides, the hard drive is an upgradeable component if you wish. This will be an important feature since full movies and other media content will be available for download via the XBox.

morimitsu
05-14-2005, 04:23 AM
He is full of shit. The Xenon CPU is far from G5 x3 @ 3.2ghz. It's missing most of the OOOE logics. That's how IBM was able to stuff 3 cores and clock it up to 3.2Ghz. Most of the software we use rely heavily on OOOE code. Running those code on XB360 will feel like running OS5 Palm app on the first Palm Pilot.

For those who have technical knowledge:
What this powerPC with 3 cores and 6 threats without OOOE code can be compared with?
I mean, they have to work to take out this OOOE, put 3 cores and a total of 6 threads, increase the clock speed, all of this just to make it equivalent of a one Xeon processor?
All this work just to make it cheaper or is it really fast?
By the way, what is OOOE?:) lol

Shogmaster
05-14-2005, 05:08 AM
For those who have technical knowledge:
What this powerPC with 3 cores and 6 threats without OOOE code can be compared with?
I mean, they have to work to take out this OOOE, put 3 cores and a total of 6 threads, increase the clock speed, all of this just to make it equivalent of a one Xeon processor?
All this work just to make it cheaper or is it really fast?
By the way, what is OOOE?:) lol

OOOE is Out of Order Execution is also known as "Dynamic scheduling". It's dynamiccally rearranging of pipeline stage to use up available/free bandwidth to execute instructions that are not necessarily next up for bat. This is how most of the modern CPUs for PCs and workstation are designed to work, and the apps written for them take advantage of that.

Game machines that rely heavily on 3D math and painting of pixels could be made to work massively parallel (which is not necessarily opposite of OOOE, but works in this example), and that's what gaming CPUs like Cell for PS3, and Tri core PPC CPU for XB360 is designed for. Massively parallel basically means you have lots of pipelines doing same work all in unison under a central command unit. Imagine thousands of slave laborers doing the same simple work under a machine gun touting master that plans everything out. Cell is more massively parallel than XB360 CPU since it has one PPE (Power PC Element) controlling up to 8 SPE (Synergetic Processing Element) that does all the vector works, but Since XB360 CPU has 3 core that execute 2 thread each all working in conjunction, it's designed to be much more parallel than OOOE.

I suppose in the future, PC and workstations CPUs might switch to this massively parallel scheme over the current OOOE heavy scheme, or the combinatin of two, but the fact of the matter is, until the apps are re-written for that purpose, it's an idle fantasy to think about running the current code on CPUs that lack OOOE logics.

tozz
05-14-2005, 10:21 AM
For those of you who want to read up on OOOE and how XB360 and Cell works (more Cell though since it's the focus of the article) can read up on this article.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379&p=1 (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379&p=3)

morimitsu
05-14-2005, 10:35 AM
Thanks guys, really appreciated.

Solothores
05-14-2005, 11:18 AM
Some more Stuff...

Namco's Frame City Killer
Movie Footage (stream for free) (http://www.gamespot.com/x360/action/framecitykiller/media.html?gcst=framecity_om_xb360_051205.asx)

The game will be powered with Epic Games' Unreal Engine 3 and will be the first game from a Japanese developer to use the high-tech engine.

Eden Studio's Test Drive Unlimited
click (StreamForFree) (http://www.gamespot.com/x360/driving/testdriveunlimited/media.html?gcst=testdriveunlim_om_mul_050905.asx)

Digital Extreme's Dark Sector
click (you get it) (http://www.gamespot.com/x360/action/darksector/media.html?gcst=darksector_ot_mul_051205.asx)




Interesting Read:
Mizuguchi, Okamoto drop game details at Japanese 360 launch (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/13/news_6124413.html)


Commenting that one of Ninety-Nine Nights' major points is its "massive" armies, Mizuguchi revealed that the Xbox 360 allowed for "at least" 1,000 soldiers to be rendered on the screen at once. He added that his team isn't satisfied with that number; they are currently attempting to display as many as 2,000 soldiers simultaneously--all taking advantage of the 360's high-definition resolution.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images//2005/news/05/12/farm_screen001.jpg
Note: It is not clear if it's actually showing ingame footage! ^^


And another:
Sakaguchi details Blue Dragon (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/13/news_6124454.html)

FlyByNight
05-14-2005, 11:36 AM
omg.. omg... O M G!!!

i cant beleive it.... i cant WAIT..... this is AMAZING!! the POWER!!!

this is going to be SO amazing.... the game experiences that we will be having will be sooo dramatic... the line of movie/game is finally drawn together...

i have no idea why people are complaining about wireless pads, and 20gig HD not being innovative etc... WHO CARES! they are going to be SICK and they are THERE so wtf!

Geta-Ve, wtf is ur problem? if u dont like what theyve got then go make ur own console, while sony, nintendo and MS work on sumthing that lies in the realm of possibility...

this is the best it is at the moment and the best it will get for a while, enjoy the revolution, cos WE are in an industry that is kicking amazing ass at the moment, so im greatful

Solothores
05-14-2005, 03:53 PM
And it goes on...

Starbreeze's Darkness (the guys responsible for riddick)
first movie footage (http://xbox360movies.ign.com/xbox360/video/article/613/613700/DarknessTrailerFinal_qthigh.mov) (looks really great)

IGN: What is the basic story behind the game? Also, what kind of game is it?

Starbreeze: On the night of his 21st birthday, the Francetti family Don, Uncle Paulie, sends out hitman Jackie Estacado on a job. The hit turns out to be a trap and Jackie finds that Paulie wants Jackie dead. Later the same night, Jackie is possessed by "The Darkness," an ancient demonic power that gives Jackie spectacular powers. The story revolves around Jackie and Paulie fighting over the future of the Francetti family, and of Jackie's search for light and love in a dark and violent world.

The Darkness is a first-person action adventure game with a mix of different gameplay elements. With the Darkness powers, Jackie receives a wide range of special Darkness abilities that help him defeat enemies and wreak havoc throughout the game's environments. Jackie is also able to summon and control creatures of the Darkness. These creatures aid him in his quest for revenge and control.

Read more (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/613/613695p1.html)

Hazdaz
05-14-2005, 08:27 PM
I was digging though some old posts over at another forum, and here was I post I wrote back in 2003 concerning the next XB:

heres MY prediction http://www.3dbuzz.com/vbforum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif for some specs on the next XBox:
-5Ghz (or equivalent) processor - probably based on the P5 or based on one of AMD's 64-bit chip. Possibly running in a dual-processor config - but doubtfull.
-Advanced ATI chioset, as mentioned in the article - probably 2x as fast as the fastest high-end vidchip out now.
-1/2 Gig of RAM, and a 100Gig HD.
-DVD-compatible main storage drive (but the games would NOT be real DVD disks) - that can burn DVDs and CDs.
-Output for HDTV (which it already has), SDTV, and stereo 3D images (with glasses)
-And my final guess is that they will cram all this into a much smaller case this time around.

Now I do want to point out that at the time everyone thought I was crazy on the 5Ghz prediction (let alone suggesting that it might be a dual processor system)... and while the XB360's chip is running at "only" 3.2, there are THREE of them. Same deal concerning the memory amount - no one thought that 1/2 GB would be feasable in a console unit.

Oh well, only reason I posted this is that as "wild" as my prediction sounded back in 2003, the XB360 is actually even more powerful in most respects.

PhilOsirus
05-14-2005, 10:27 PM
Uhmm if anyone is geek enough to explain how three 3ghz processors do not = a console running with a 9ghz processor I would appreciate.

heavyness
05-15-2005, 12:12 AM
i guess the easiest way of saying is.....

think of a car with EngineX in it. this engine can only go 150 miles per hour, max. of course, when you hit a hill, its not going to stay at 150 since it has to pull some extra weight.

now think of the same car with 4 EngineXs in it [one for each wheel]. they still can't go faster then 150 miles per hour each, BUT, when you hit that hill, you wont slow down.

kinda rough comparison, but i hope it helps.

lovisx
05-15-2005, 12:20 AM
couldn't you have different processors doing different things. One processor doing physics calculations, another working with the graphics card, and the other doing perhaps ai calculations, is this possible, or am I talking out of my ass.


edit. Not sure if A.i needs a processor, I doubt it, just trying to figure out what a third processor could be used for.

ktamiola
05-15-2005, 12:26 AM
hi...

I think You are right... It is possible... I know some people from my University who are cooperating with EA Games (people form cognitive science departament) and they are already running some custom software (crod simulators) that could be used in games... The software I have mentioned runs only under linux and it is simpy a hardcore buggy code, however I think the ide You were writing about would be easily implemented...

Camil

Geta-Ve
05-15-2005, 12:29 AM
Geta-Ve, wtf is ur problem? if u dont like what theyve got then go make ur own console, while sony, nintendo and MS work on sumthing that lies in the realm of possibility...

this is the best it is at the moment and the best it will get for a while, enjoy the revolution, cos WE are in an industry that is kicking amazing ass at the moment, so im greatful

eh? all I hear you saying is "im a huge fanboy that hates when people dislike my console, boo hoo hoo"

but seriously, where is it stated that im not allowed to have an opinion? do we all have to like whats coming out? your saying pdz, doa4 look good? if so than you need to get your eyes checked.

I never said gr/unreal/gow/etc look bad, but i have a hunch that those are all beauty shots. and I also stated, if they aren't and are in fact in game, then i am blown away.

Now please hush. and dont swear, its bad for my health.

ShadowHunter
05-15-2005, 01:21 AM
Uhmm if anyone is geek enough to explain how three 3ghz processors do not = a console running with a 9ghz processor I would appreciate.

You'll get 9ghz in the best case scenario. That is, if you can divide the tasks such that all three cores are used to their fullest potential. This however is not easy to do, as many processes rely on one-another.

couldn't you have different processors doing different things. One processor doing physics calculations, another working with the graphics card, and the other doing perhaps ai calculations, is this possible, or am I talking out of my ass.

This is a good example. Since the AI/player interacts with the physics, the physics responsible core needs to wait for the AI/player core to update their position, once the physics are calculated, only then can the graphics proc begin filling the pollys etc. So in effect you end up with one core just sitting there and waiting for the data from the other cores to arrive. Hence < 9GHz.

But it's not that bad. A lot of things can be parallelized, such that data exchange occurs only rarely. E.g. while one proc is doing the graphics (filling polys, aplying shaders etc.), the other ones can start working on the next frame (however if the proc is done filling, but the data for the new frame is not thre yet, it'll have to wait). That's why we have GPUs right now to lower the workload on the main proc. We'll never obtain the best case for Xbox360 resulting in 9GHz, but we can get close :thumbsup:

FlyByNight
05-15-2005, 03:24 AM
Totally but this still adds to games.

http://www.tml.hut.fi/~janne/aofields/ for a good read on real time ambient occlusion

ambient occlusion eh??? i always used to call it, "that thing that happens when u turn max's skylight on" :)

mlaoxve
05-15-2005, 04:23 AM
There will only be a bit below 9GB of storage, and if you think about that and compare it to the PS2 games Grandia 3 (2 full dvds) and FF12 (2 full dvds) you could easily see that this console is suppose to last 4years+ that will result in big games probably using two dvds after maybe a year or two, because games will increase in size by LOTS if graphics does.

Then think that there will probably be a new type of dvd soon; and that might be blue ray. That means Xbox might not play new dvds in 2-3years.

I'm not so sure of this as a smart move from microsoft, but that is just on the hardware side. The big problem is if Xbox can get a decent game flow this time around, but they have bought everyone so that might not be a problem.

Shogmaster
05-15-2005, 06:31 AM
couldn't you have different processors doing different things. One processor doing physics calculations, another working with the graphics card, and the other doing perhaps ai calculations, is this possible, or am I talking out of my ass.


edit. Not sure if A.i needs a processor, I doubt it, just trying to figure out what a third processor could be used for.

That's exactly what they are doing with the CPU. Multiple cores/threads for different purposes. For instance, vertex work could be done all by the R500 GPU, but if the dev feels the need, they can get one of the CPU cores or just a thread to suppliment the GPU.

And AI does require alot of CPU power to do well. That's why current gen games have bumb as brick AI usually, except for some XBox games that has the 733Mhz Mobile Celeron to concentrate more on things like AI and physics since it doesn't have to do any vertex calcs.

Geta-Ve
05-15-2005, 06:23 PM
ign has a good article on the specs of the wireless controller

click me (http://gear.ign.com/articles/613/613588p1.html)

ntmonkey
05-15-2005, 10:44 PM
I'm a little late on the news, but I did read all the posts. Kinda sorry that I did, but there were some good information in the sea of BS.

I would honestly like to hear from actual developers on the system to talk about ease of deployment of their code to the console. I think if games are truly to be next-gen worthy, the transition from engineers and artist to the console is crucial. I'm sure the hardware will be a contributing factor, but at this point, I'm not going to drop a system or pick one up due to a few mhz of difference. I'm just happy that we're not stuck with the flat textures of yesteryear and we finally get to see some good lighting in our games.

As for the Xbox 360, I'm glad M$ came out for Round2. Competition, as always, benefits the consumers. So regardless if it's a good system or a bad system, it's still in contention for taking a section of the marketshare. So even if you don't like the Xbox, you still owe it thanks for driving the market as a competitor.

peace,

Lu

Loosecontroll
05-16-2005, 01:28 AM
I hear all these people complain how DOA4 looks crappy. HOW?????

For a start those are old leaked shots from an old build. And even so i think they look awsome. DO you guys even know the DOA series. They have to keep the same style/look as it's how the series intends. You can tell the poly count is way higher, those enviroments look soooo detailed and you havn't even seen it in motion yet. I guarantee it will be great.

NickBFTD
05-16-2005, 01:33 AM
for anybody wanting 300+gb HDDs you should take note that in the presentation video the HDD looks very much like its going to be a proprietary device (maybe an enclosed laptop drive ?) with its LCD display.

I will most likely end up buying all three consoles same as i did for this generation but it's the PS3 i'm looking forward to the most as its the sony machine thats served me the best so far, i only own 5 xbox games whereas i have like 100 ps2 games and 20 gamecube games

whenever it comes to multi-platform games i always get the PS2 version due the the superior pad design although the xbox S-pad was a huge improvement on the original one and the 360 pad seems to have improved on button placement even if it is rather ugly.

for an American audiance the xbox360 is the best thing since sliced bread but for the very same reasons its not to other cultures, there is a place for all 3 consoles.

the whole media centre thing i dont give a toss about i can get myself a cheap dvd player that can play DVD,mp3,vcd,divx,ogg etc.. and the idea of buying downloadable films doesnt appeal to me (same goes for games).

t-man152
05-16-2005, 01:37 AM
is the controller batery rechargeable? I see 3 little holes facing the player what are those for?

NickBFTD
05-16-2005, 01:40 AM
is the controller batery rechargeable? I see 3 little holes facing the player what are those for?


sex aids maybe ?

Hazdaz
05-16-2005, 01:42 AM
for anybody wanting 300+gb HDDs you should take note that in the presentation video the HDD looks very much like its going to be a proprietary device (maybe an enclosed laptop drive ?) with its LCD display.

What do you mean by that? There isn't a chance in hell that the HD is not going to be upgradeable, either through official MS add-ons or through some hack. A harddrive is a harddrive - the only thing that might matter is the way it is formatted - and we all know that would get hacked quite quickly.

Shogmaster
05-16-2005, 01:58 AM
sex aids maybe ?

If your tool is that small.... Well you'll be playing ALOT of games.

NickBFTD
05-16-2005, 02:14 AM
What do you mean by that? There isn't a chance in hell that the HD is not going to be upgradeable, either through official MS add-ons or through some hack. A harddrive is a harddrive - the only thing that might matter is the way it is formatted - and we all know that would get hacked quite quickly.

all i'm saying is that it MAY NOT be as strait forward to install a HUGE hardrive as some people seem to believe or even used in the same manner as before which could cause problems for people wanting to install linux, i agree that a hack will come along at some point though.

shogmaster: lol, i meant that's where they could be plugged in

heavyness
05-16-2005, 02:52 AM
is the controller battery rechargeable? I see 3 little holes facing the player what are those for?

the wireless controller can be used with regular batteries or rechargeable ones [like some digital cameras]. the middle port at the bottom is for a headphone, and the little ones on the side [i think] are for advance headphones that have volume control and such.

JasonWong
05-16-2005, 03:48 AM
Can hardly buy the XBOX in China of!

t-man152
05-16-2005, 03:52 AM
the wireless controller can be used with regular batteries or rechargeable ones [like some digital cameras]. the middle port at the bottom is for a headphone, and the little ones on the side [i think] are for advance headphones that have volume control and such.

Thanks for the info

L.Rawlins
05-17-2005, 01:10 AM
Umm.. you do realize that the harddrive will basically be used for the same purpose that it was used in the orignal XB. NOT to "install" a game - an antiquated technique that only PCs require - but to save games and caching info and storing personal music and other similiar info while the actual game data is obviously still left on the DVD.

I know that. I was thinking more along the lines of this being touted as a more media center friendly style machine.

20gb doesn't store much media these days. Atleast not mine. In order to 'future proof' itself it should atleast be double that in my opinion.

itsallgoode9
05-17-2005, 02:02 AM
I just saw this on ign and thought it was pretty cool...some of the custom faceplates for the 360
http://img226.echo.cx/img226/2871/faceplate4st.jpg
http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/614/614690/e3-2005-xbox-360-arrives-20050516045826616.jpg

Nathellion
05-17-2005, 09:46 AM
Just thought I'd post a link to thenewly released Quake 4 vid:

LINK (http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/740/740717/vids_1.html)

Be warned. The guys at IGN.com color corrected the video so that all the blood is blue, the problem being that a lot of other stuff is blue as well. Another fine example of how censorship takes the fun out of everything. The trailer is still one of the best things to come out of e3 so far though, so be sure to check it out.

Neil
05-17-2005, 03:36 PM
the wireless controller can be used with regular batteries or rechargeable ones [like some digital cameras]

And we all know that rechargeable batteries can only be recharged so many times. I'd be totally pissed if i have to keep buying new controllers (or batteries) just to use the system.

Just thought I'd post a link to thenewly released Quake 4 vid:

I am totally unimpressed with it. Looks like a Doom3 mod that is being slapped together. Hell even the RTCW trailer from like 4 years ago had me more anxious to play a FPS. For now Killzone2 is taking the cake for me with next gen FPS. Don't even talk about how shitty Perfect Dark 2 looks.

poly-phobic
05-17-2005, 04:10 PM
For now Killzone2 is taking the cake for me with next gen FPS. Don't even talk about how shitty Perfect Dark 2 looks.

thats not actual gameplay footage...

well revolution seems to be taking the paradigmatic "nintendo-hardware" path,
ps3 has yet to show gameplay footage (but i know they will blow me away with mgs4 and gt5])
microsoft seems to be the one "delivering" at this point.

and PS3 will be available spring 06-a yr from now; probably in japan first then the US [correct me if im wrong].

----
im still inclined to think developing on 360 will be easier as it already is for the current xbox versus the ps2 [ form my experience]
we'll just have to wait and see.
like nintendo say, its how u use all the power of the systems, flashy tech demos only falsly advertise a system [*cough, cough PS2]

SheepFactory
05-17-2005, 04:39 PM
thats not actual gameplay footage...




How do you know? afaik it is gameplay footage just like that dirt racing game which was more impressive graphics and physics wise compared to even killzone 2 trailer.

Lord3d2
05-17-2005, 04:50 PM
Wait until you see ingame footage when sites will premier video clips of the games.

They will tell you if the demos we see are ingame or prerendered.

Since players can play the games at the booths

poly-phobic
05-17-2005, 04:52 PM
How do you know? afaik it is gameplay footage just like that dirt racing game which was more impressive graphics and physics wise compared to even killzone 2 trailer.
if someone has to tell me this is a cinematic, then im in the wrong field.
im sure no one needs to convince you this was not actual gameplay footage, i know it s just wishful thinking perhaps... we all long a day for gaming like this.
but its typical pre-release hype. the purpose of tech demos..
this company made the intro

http://www.allvfx.com/news/article.asp?articleid=382&zoneid=3&pos=2453

SheepFactory
05-17-2005, 04:58 PM
yea its wait and see , we'll find out soon enough.

BillSpradlin
05-17-2005, 05:16 PM
"afaik it is gameplay footage just like that dirt racing game which was more impressive graphics and physics wise compared to even killzone 2 trailer."

The dirt racing game was pre-rendered cinematics. There might have been a few shots when the camera was behind the car and it was driving along the track that were in game footage (maybe not even then). Nothing that Sony demo'd was in game footage, it was all pre-rendered cinematics.

SheepFactory
05-17-2005, 05:17 PM
:cry: and here i was getting all excited.

Dirtystimpy
05-17-2005, 05:54 PM
me too,
but it did its job, for at least last night, I was like, the xbox is going to get killed, but after waking up to this day! hahahaha, nevermind!

rakmaya
05-17-2005, 06:05 PM
.... Nothing that Sony demo'd was in game footage, it was all pre-rendered cinematics.

Sorry no offense! What the heck are you talking about. Killzone is not real time. But Unreal and the Boxing game is real time. They even played those two games. There were other demos (not games) that were real time as well.

BillSpradlin
05-17-2005, 06:21 PM
The stuff from Fight Night shown in the trailer was pre-rendered, anything that was shown beyond that I don't know about. As far as Unreal, of course...we already knew that, nothing new.

SheepFactory
05-17-2005, 06:25 PM
how is he rotating realtime around pre-rendered cinematics again?

BillSpradlin
05-17-2005, 08:24 PM
Sheep: I was referring to the trailer, not the demo. Which was just cut scenes of it, I saw that part and obviously it was in game.

novadude
05-17-2005, 08:48 PM
how is he rotating realtime around pre-rendered cinematics again?

he practiced and got the timing down :)

Solothores
05-17-2005, 09:12 PM
ok lets get back to topic :D

New extended Ghost Recon 3 Trailer
http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/736/736206/vids_1.html

Nathellion
05-18-2005, 01:22 AM
I am totally unimpressed with it. Looks like a Doom3 mod that is being slapped together.

Well, being that there is only really one released game that visually contends with DOOM 3 atm (said game being Half-Life 2), this game is still quite impressive, although maybe not as much as say Gears of War or UT2007, but then again I don't think any games are being released using UE3 'til '06 so it's not even really fair to compare the two engines. I don't know, I think it's going to rock. The characters look great and the clip where the character is manuevering the mech looks awesome, although I will agree that it seems to have a bit of that monotonous look that DOOM 3 had.

For now Killzone2 is taking the cake for me with next gen FPS. Don't even talk about how shitty Perfect Dark 2 looks.

The Killzone 2 trailer is pre-rendered, and the Perfect Dark Zero screens that have been released are supposedly reasonably preliminary, although I agree they look pretty current-gen. Some of the brief gameplay snippets they showed on MTV made it look pretty fun though.

bentllama
05-18-2005, 01:36 AM
Sheep:

fight night was a tech demo. prescripted events that had pause and camera control on the controller. however, that is not to say it was not impressive...

that demo is doable in engine but far from what the final game will represent. or at least i hope it is not that plain and simple.
you need to accomodate for the fact they were in an empty warehouse with no crowd, no AI processes, no effects, no laoded move trees, etc.

real in game material will need to budget for more than just 2 scripted characters, 2 loaded single animations, no blending, no AI, no effects...

the final game will be different, but the teaser shown today today has generated the buzz it needed to...we are talking about it after all... :)

kudos to the fight night team...I look forward to viewing more...

FOOKSHETUP
05-18-2005, 10:28 AM
By:
Rob Semsey - "Horus" (rob@teamxbox.com)
May. 17th, 2005 11:56 pm

Of the recent Xbox 360 gameplay footage we’ve seen so far, the one major concern has been that of the sometime sluggish framerate. In a recent discussion with a number of Microsoft executives, we managed to learn that all current Xbox 360 games that were shown at last night’s E3 press briefing are still running on alpha development kits that are not a true representation of what we can expect when the console launches this holiday season. Estimations are that the current kits are running at only 25-40% of the maximum power that the Xbox 360 will possess. Beta kits are scheduled to hit developers within the next 2 months and final hardware should arrive in early July.

One example given by Microsoft CEO, Steve Ballmer, was that of the original Halo when it made its E3 debut back in 2001. The game suffered from a pretty terrible framerate and criticism was heavy, but we all know how that story ended…not too shabby. Therefore we can assume that all the Xbox 360 games shown at this year’s show will see a number of upgrades during the next six months.


According to Microsoft, the verdict is still out on whether their investment in Rare is a success, but that will be determined during the Xbox 360 generation. Ballmer displayed his enthusiasm in the developer by describing them as “geniuses” and ensured that Microsoft is dedicated to providing their full support for Rare’s upcoming titles like Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo: Elements of Power, as well as at least two new IPs in development.

It’s no surprise that Microsoft lost money on nearly every Xbox sold due to the price point that the console came to market at, but Ballmer assured that they’ve since learned their lessons. Not only has Microsoft had the luxury of a three year planning window, but they’ve since strengthened retail relationships that were being formed when the Xbox launched. It may seem odd, but before the Xbox, Microsoft did not sell one product directly to retailers and so there was definitely a learning curve involved. Every aspect and feature of the Xbox 360 was thoroughly planned for to ensure profit, including the somewhat recent jump to 512 MB of memory.

When asked if Sony’s claims to have the PS3 to market by spring 2006 was a surprise, Chief Xbox Officer, Robbie Bach, said that Microsoft had planned for that timeframe from the start and it wasn’t a determining factor in the Xbox 360 launch. What was a surprise to the Microsoft team was the lack of discussion by Sony at their press conference to an online strategy for the PS3. With Xbox Live clearly the leading online gaming service and an integral part of the Xbox 360 strategy, Sony will obviously need to have a strong showing in the online arena for the PS3.

The topic of HD media, such as Blu-ray or HD-DVD, is a hot button with Microsoft and Sony each betting against one another’s strategy. Microsoft is taking the safe approach by not including any type of HD-DVD drive in the 360, yet Sony has already committed to including Blu-ray technology into their PS3. It remains to be seen if the standards are in place by the time the PS3 launches and the cost structure of the technology. In any case, Microsoft declared that they will remain “agile” and would be able to easily adjust the Xbox 360 to accommodate new technology.

We’ll have more details on the Xbox 360 and its titles as our E3 2005 coverage continues.


http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8296/Xbox-360-More-Power/

Moonblood
05-18-2005, 11:30 AM
but i think it will perform great

novadude
05-18-2005, 03:44 PM
I'd rather see sluggish good looking games running on alpha kits than perfectly smooth movies demonstrating what they think the final system could do. Alpha demonstrations let me see the bare minimum of what the console can do, where as the tech demo's show me the best the system could do.

DevilHacker
05-18-2005, 10:25 PM
I'd rather see sluggish good looking games running on alpha kits than perfectly smooth movies demonstrating what they think the final system could do. Alpha demonstrations let me see the bare minimum of what the console can do, where as the tech demo's show me the best the system could do.

Not only that, but the games that we are seeing right now are only using one-third the power what the the 360 can do...
LINK (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/615/615667p1.html)

Nathellion
05-18-2005, 11:28 PM
Good news everybody, apparently Perfect Dark Zero is going to kick ass after all, judging from these updated impressions by IGN:

LINK (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/616/616196p1.html)

novadude
05-19-2005, 01:38 AM
Not only that, but the games that we are seeing right now are only using one-third the power what the the 360 can do...
LINK (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/615/615667p1.html)

Yeah, hence the reference to the alpha kits developers currently have. If they can make the stuff they've shown on 1/3 of the power available in the final kit, that makes me certain that the final product can only look and perform better. It doesn't leave me thinking "it might look that good a year before [console X + 1 gen] comes out"

That said, I wish Sony had lit a fire under Bungie's ass by telling them that PS3 would be out this fall :) (I've got this nagging fealing that it won't actually take them until the day PS3 comes out to get Halo 3 out. But that might just be me :rolleyes: *cursed marketing ploys*)

Dunedain
05-19-2005, 02:51 AM
The X-Box 360 is an awesome game console. I just came from Day 1 of E3-2005 and checked out their demo. Here's a couple of snaps...

http://www.dunedain.rustedmind.com/E3_2005/IMG_xbox360_01.jpg
http://www.dunedain.rustedmind.com/E3_2005/IMG_xbox360_02.jpg

Witnessing at the performance of the X-Box360 ON-THE-SPOT was awesome. Looking at a simple tennis game called Top Spin (anyone familiar with this?), the players looks 85% real. If you'd look at the screen at an instant without knowing that it's just a video game, you wouldn't tell the difference. Moving on, then I also checked out Call of Duty 2 on the 360. The details are awesome. There is so much details (wall cracks, bullet holes, grime, dirt, blood splatters, etc) on the graphics and the sound is far better. With so much stuff all at once, I was surprised that there isn't a lag. As for Need For Speed, let me put it this way: WOW!

Oh, here's what I've been working on....

http://www.dunedain.rustedmind.com/E3_2005/IMG_003.jpg

....with a special appearance of Brian Michael Bendi, creator of Ultimate Spider-man.

http://www.dunedain.rustedmind.com/E3_2005/IMG_004.jpg

Peace y'all! :D

PhilOsirus
05-19-2005, 03:04 AM
Isn't Ultimate Spider Man for current gen? I saw a trailer and it looked cool, playing as Venom should be fun:)

DevilHacker
05-19-2005, 03:43 AM
(I've got this nagging fealing that it won't actually take them until the day PS3 comes out to get Halo 3 out. But that might just be me :rolleyes: *cursed marketing ploys*)
One of my professors once said that a video game is never really done. If you’re given more time, use it to its fullest.

So, in Bungie's case, If anything, they will have more time to really polish it and add more content. So, waiting is not always a bad thing, especially when your finishing off such a large series such as Halo.
;)

Solothores
05-19-2005, 08:05 PM
Xbox360 movies in HD (1024x768) can be found over here (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/e32005/videos.htm)

bentllama
05-20-2005, 11:53 PM
great look at the 2 consoles and thier specs here:

http://www.majornelson.com/

Hazdaz
05-21-2005, 01:51 AM
great look at the 2 consoles and thier specs here:

http://www.majornelson.com/

Good find, and some interesting info.... even if it was an inside-guy at XB writing it up.
But the most important and interesting quote in that entire article is this:
"Sony has a track record of over promising and under delivering on technical performance"

PhilOsirus
05-21-2005, 02:18 AM
great look at the 2 consoles and thier specs here:

http://www.majornelson.com/

That's like getting your info on the Xbox at PS3lovers.com

Hazdaz
05-21-2005, 05:14 AM
One more reason why I think the XB360 will either win this round of the console wars (or atleast make a much bigger impact)...

"President of Square Enix, Yoichi Wada, announced the first game in his Final Fantasy series to come to the Xbox, Final Fantasy XI Online"

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050517_110907.html

Now mind you, I have never even played a FF game before (and not sure if I would be into them), but I do know FF has a huge following, and the fact that such an influencial Japanese studio and franchise is headed to the XB360 is very important. No idea if it is going to be exclusive, but just being on the XB360 is pretty big news.

Kion
05-21-2005, 06:23 AM
Now mind you, I have never even played a FF game before (and not sure if I would be into them), but I do know FF has a huge following, and the fact that such an influencial Japanese studio and franchise is headed to the XB360 is very important. No idea if it is going to be exclusive, but just being on the XB360 is pretty big news.

Its the same one that came out for ps2 last year. The Xbox360 version will sport no visual upgrades of any kind, I think its just about as big of an announcement as GTA SA coming to xbox, its going to happen adventually.

After going to E3 the thing I'm worried about is the 360 being premature,the launch titles don't look that impressive or "next gen" , they looked like really high res xbox games. There was not a game that grabbed me ,maybe need for speed, but it looked more like a glorified pc game, nothing truly next gen. Then there are rumers that ps3 may release next spring worldwide. I'm wondering if 4 or 5 months is going to be enough for a huge lead. Also the fact that there are a ton of really impresive ps2 and xbox titles coming out this fall. As a consumer, i have 400 dollars, do i buy a new system that has maybe 2 games i want to play or, stick with my old one for a year and use money buy a but load of games that are coming out for xbox and ps2.

If you want to know who will win the next gen battle it all depends on who gets GTA first. People will spend what ever it takes to play that game. If I were microsoft I would pay what ever takes to make that happen.

PhilOsirus
05-21-2005, 06:23 AM
One more reason why I think the XB360 will either win this round of the console wars (or atleast make a much bigger impact)...

"President of Square Enix, Yoichi Wada, announced the first game in his Final Fantasy series to come to the Xbox, Final Fantasy XI Online"

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050517_110907.html

Now mind you, I have never even played a FF game before (and not sure if I would be into them), but I do know FF has a huge following, and the fact that such an influencial Japanese studio and franchise is headed to the XB360 is very important. No idea if it is going to be exclusive, but just being on the XB360 is pretty big news.

No, FFXI has already been released for PC and PS2 (yes PS2). It is an online version of FF with a 13$ monthly fee. Square is keeping the main FF franchise on Sony's console, at least for now. What can help the new Xbox is that the FF creatore (Hironobu Sakaguchi) is making 2 new exclusive games for the Xbox, but it remains to be seen what impact this will have on sales in Japan, but it certainly can only help. But there are no indications to think that Sony's position will be reduced in Japan in any way.

Hazdaz
05-21-2005, 06:45 AM
MS is chipping away at all the things that made the PS2 such a run-away success during the last/current console gen. Alll the fanboys would always say that "it's all about the gameplay not the power of the system or the graphics" to support their graphically and horse power inferior PS2.... well MS got atleast a few games ported over to the XB1 that were previously PS2 exclusive. Such mega-hits like GTA and this FF game... after all, if it is ALL about the gameplay, then having older graphics really shoulnd't matter, right?

Is just looks like MS is taking a very smart and very methodical process of atleast trying to correct everything wrong (or atleast perceived wrong) with the first XB and trying to correct it with the XB360. I know that realitively lack of Japanese studio support hurt them bad in Japan (and also with fans of those Japanese games in the US). So MS is taking the very smart move of trying to get some of the big-time developers in Japan to atleast port their games over as a start, with the hopes of much better sales in Japan. I don't think anyone is expecting XB360 to rule Japan, but I don't think that is really the case. Just getting a bigger piece of that market - even if it is still in 3rd place - would be a major coup for MS.

PhilOsirus
05-21-2005, 07:13 AM
Is just looks like MS is taking a very smart and very methodical process of atleast trying to correct everything wrong (or atleast perceived wrong) with the first XB and trying to correct it with the XB360.

MS has been doing two things:

1- Bring PC gamers to the Xbox: This ended up giving the very false impression that MS had a hold of X% of the console market share when in fact they just had a lot of PC gamers play games that would have been released on the PC if it was not for MS doing everything it could to get those games done for their console.

2- Throw a lot of money around: Microsoft, unlike Sony, tried to buy Sega, tried to buy Nintendo, and rumors said they had attempted to buy Squaresoft before it merged with Enix, among other companies. Microsoft was also ready to pay large parts of the development cost of various games to have them ported over to the Xbox or attempt to keep them exclusive (Team Ninja's Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden for example, the later now likely to appear on PS3 as well if not exclusively). Buy buy buy, money money money. This has so far not stopped and I would not be suprised if MS is paying a good percentage of the development cost of those recently announced Japanese companies' games. Afterall, why would those Japanese companies be ready to make games for a console whom's weekly sales were below the 200 units in Japan. Just last week (May 2 to May 8) MS sold a giant 169 Xboxes in Japan against Sony's 38,629 units and Nintendo's 80,000+ Gameboys, a company very few Japanese companies support. The idea that Japanese companies truly believe in MS's potential as a leader in this market makes as much sense as 1+1=3.

A company that spends so much money in such a manner is a company that is insecure and non-confident about its abilities in the market it is part of.

WeirdoStudio
05-21-2005, 07:59 AM
I really think its funny how people trash the Xbox when everything seen for the PS3 has NOT been a playable demo but rather prerendered animations shown on a big screen.. I will probably get both systems but i have to say that the XBOX just seems like the better deal.. The PS3 was not even in playable form but yet we are supposed to believe that the system is the holy grail..PLEASE... personally i can't wait to get my paws on the xbox, and the ps3, but i will take all of sonys bullshit with a grain of salt until they can produce something remotely playable..Not a prerendered FMV that wasnt even played on the system...

EpShot
05-21-2005, 08:51 AM
A company that spends so much money in such a manner is a company that is insecure and non-confident about its abilities in the market it is part of.
true, but as long as they spend money, we get more out of it. (since the developers can spend more time/money to develope the games)

Nathellion
05-21-2005, 09:47 AM
Ahem...A little comparison between the PS3 and the X360...

LINK (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html)

The best part being:

"When you break down the numbers, Xbox 360 has provably more performance than PS3."

Of course, the comparison sheet was done by Microsoft themselves, and hence there is bias permeating throughout, but I don't think any of the numbers are lying. I really don't know what any of those numbers mean, being the humble hardware layman that I am, but they generally seem to be in favor of Microsoft's console.

If anyone can sift through the jargon/bias and break these numbers down please do so :).

bentllama
05-21-2005, 10:51 AM
A company that spends so much money in such a manner is a company that is insecure and non-confident about its abilities in the market it is part of.

that is such horseshit and you know it.

sony spends assloads of cash the same way MS does for exclusive deals and talent wrangling. for every deal that is made on the MS camp, Sony has a counter deal that is equally as prominent. for every 3rd party dev that gets bought by sony, MS has an equally as talented developer under their umbrella.

it comes down to people making great games with great gameplay...and i know i did not just meet hideo kojima at my desk last friday before e3 for no apparent reason.

every company spends money. get over it. it is how you use what you bought that matters...

Heber
05-21-2005, 11:15 AM
maybe you go to far out of your way to backup m$ and xbox....let it go man

also name dropping not neccesary to back up your arguments ;)

MrPositive
05-21-2005, 01:51 PM
Wow those screenshots of Ghost Recon 3 make me misty eyed. Tear.

Solothores
05-21-2005, 02:02 PM
hope it has yet not been posted here:


Gears of Wars Gameplay Footage
http://xboxyde.com/leech_1380_en.html


Some Screens
http://media.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/1296/786_0005.jpg
http://media.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/1296/786_0002.jpg


And some Tech Demos from the ATI Booth
http://www.xboxyde.com/news_1610_en.html

Cheers
Solo

Hazdaz
05-21-2005, 02:30 PM
that is such horseshit and you know it.

sony spends assloads of cash the same way MS does for exclusive deals and talent wrangling. for every deal that is made on the MS camp, Sony has a counter deal that is equally as prominent. for every 3rd party dev that gets bought by sony, MS has an equally as talented developer under their umbrella.

it comes down to people making great games with great gameplay...and i know i did not just meet hideo kojima at my desk last friday before e3 for no apparent reason.

every company spends money. get over it. it is how you use what you bought that matters...

Exactly dude. Like I am not huge fan of MS, but too many people have this wrong impression that SONY is any different in their business practices - they are both MASSIVE companies with massive amounts ofmoney to throw around and massive amounts of money to potentially lose, cuz they both know the end game (of owning each generation) can reap huge profits for them.

Solothores
05-21-2005, 03:04 PM
Sega's next gen game presentation in better quality
http://www.xboxyde.com/leech_1399_en.html

FlyByNight
05-21-2005, 03:24 PM
that is such horseshit and you know it.

sony spends assloads of cash the same way MS does for exclusive deals and talent wrangling. for every deal that is made on the MS camp, Sony has a counter deal that is equally as prominent. for every 3rd party dev that gets bought by sony, MS has an equally as talented developer under their umbrella.

it comes down to people making great games with great gameplay...and i know i did not just meet hideo kojima at my desk last friday before e3 for no apparent reason.

every company spends money. get over it. it is how you use what you bought that matters...

ye man, tell em... i dunno how people got this impression of sony being a good caring company... thats a crok of shit... everything they make, they try to squeeeze as much money out of it as possible... evrything they make has to have 'sony brand' accessories, and only 'sony brand'..... theyre over priced, they lie to their consumers, and they use every marketing ploy in the book... understandably, this is business, but people, dont get it confused,

SONY DOESNT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT U....

I at least believe that billy boy and the MS crew truly care about the evolution of computers and the games genre. cmon, look at his glasses... PLUS, my man billie has got money falling out of his nose when he sneezes, this is not a get rich quick scheme for him... that ship sailed a long time ago.

If it wasnt for MS, these next gen consoles would b crap... sony wouldnt have gone so overboard with their specs if MS didnt throw 2 billion at xbox... we would still be looking at screens for crappy 3d games, not the hyper realism we are seeing...

Sony fan boys need to give credit where credit is due, and stop coming out with the same old crap like ' o theyve got too much money ' , ' o the pad is too big ' blah blah blah....

FlyByNight
05-21-2005, 03:30 PM
A company that spends so much money in such a manner is a company that is insecure and non-confident about its abilities in the market it is part of.

how about xbox is a new console company that is trying to establish itself in a competitive market?? sounds CRAZY doesnt it phil...

poly-phobic
05-21-2005, 04:04 PM
ye man, tell em... i dunno how people got this impression of sony being a good caring company... thats a crok of shit... everything they make, they try to squeeeze as much money out of it as possible... evrything they make has to have 'sony brand' accessories, and only 'sony brand'..... theyre over priced, they lie to their consumers, and they use every marketing ploy in the book... understandably, this is business, but people, dont get it confused,

SONY DOESNT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT U....

I at least believe that billy boy and the MS crew truly care about the evolution of computers and the games genre. cmon, look at his glasses... PLUS, my man billie has got money falling out of his nose when he sneezes, this is not a get rich quick scheme for him... that ship sailed a long time ago.

If it wasnt for MS, these next gen consoles would b crap... sony wouldnt have gone so overboard with their specs if MS didnt throw 2 billion at xbox... we would still be looking at screens for crappy 3d games, not the hyper realism we are seeing...

Sony fan boys need to give credit where credit is due, and stop coming out with the same old crap like ' o theyve got too much money ' , ' o the pad is too big ' blah blah blah....

"Sony" should also be plagued by the proverbial "$" that M$ has carried on its back for so long.
lets not forget, M$ has only been in the console game industry for barely 5yrs, and compared to NINtendo [some might say the essense of gaming], M$ is making a strong debut.
this is their second console,this is sony's 4th, and nintendo's 100th :) , soo give credit where credit is due.

Hazdaz
05-21-2005, 04:11 PM
Sega's next gen game presentation in better quality
http://www.xboxyde.com/leech_1399_en.html

Well the video footage (camara work) sucks ass on this video, but what is playing on screen looks insanely cool!

Those can't possibly al be in-game graphics.... could they???? (specifically the Chrome Hound video, the zombie one and the Sonic one)
Like the lady said they weren't pre-rendered... but that is different than "in-game" cuz in-gmae graphics always have to account for the processing power needed to calculate the enemy's AI and all that other stuff.

Hazdaz
05-21-2005, 04:15 PM
...and nintendo's 100th
... And that isn't even counting all the different versions of the GameBoy that they have sqeezed out... counting those, it's probably Nintendo's 516513654354th console on the market. :D

Recursive
05-21-2005, 04:33 PM
" this is their second console,this is sony's 4th, and nintendo's 100th :) , soo give credit where credit is due.

Compare the xbox to the Nintendo nes and Sony playstationa and very little credit is due.

Hazdaz
05-21-2005, 04:36 PM
"Sony" should also be plagued by the proverbial "$" that M$ has carried on its back for so long.
... it's actually very funnAy when you look at the 2 companies in a financial perspective.

M$ is a company with ~$30 Billion dollars of revenue last fiscal year and has 57,000 employees and has a market cap of ~$300 Billion.

now that sounds huge, right?
Well until you get to $ony.

$ony is a company with ~$65 Billion dollars of revenue last fiscal year and has 150,000 employees and has a market cap of ~$37 Billion.

I mean M$ is a much more profitable company (even if it is making less money overall), but somepeople think that $ony is some kind of mom-and-pop operation and that couldn't be farther from the trueth.

bentllama
05-21-2005, 05:08 PM
maybe you go to far out of your way to backup m$ and xbox....let it go man

also name dropping not neccesary to back up your arguments ;)

heber, I did not even mention EA and thier spending habits! ;)

lol

like taking away my NHL 2K+ hockey franchise... *cry*

besides, even though i don't personally like to play the metal gear games, meeting kojima-san was cool. i respect the talent.

:beer:

bentllama
05-21-2005, 05:10 PM
hope it has yet not been posted here:


Gears of Wars Gameplay Footage
http://xboxyde.com/leech_1380_en.html



And some Tech Demos from the ATI Booth
http://www.xboxyde.com/news_1610_en.html

Cheers
Solo

yeah. i had a private gears of war demo on thursday and it shows some great potential. they still have a long way to go in many areas, but it should shape up to be one fun and nice looking game.

PhilOsirus
05-21-2005, 05:31 PM
how about xbox is a new console company that is trying to establish itself in a competitive market?? sounds CRAZY doesnt it phil...

It's crazy enough when you realize the console's sales didn't top the 200 units while the same devs that were not supporting Nintendo who was outselling the PS2 with its Gameboys and outselling the Xbox with its Gamecubes are supposedly supporting the new Xbox with strong game sales in mind. What's next, support for the N-Gage?

And last I check I didn't say Sony was my girlfriend and that she loved me very much, but that they had the market share to make development for their console a logical choice. It is more propable that companies develop for the PS2 because of potential actual sales rather than because they will be paid by the console's maker just to make the games.

lebada
05-21-2005, 05:41 PM
well 1 thing probably most agree on:

1. all consoles look big or crappy
2. BOSE will sue sony soon:D
3.PS3 pads look bad


Xbox might be the new weiner here but i dunno. i see these "game show" guys still being "amazed" at sony ps3 but they dotn list any reasons outside some cool looking videos lol

Dirtystimpy
05-21-2005, 06:28 PM
I know both systems will have great games, and both be powerful. But what Sony Doesn't have, is an established online community, like Xbox LIVE. Just like anything, the longer you do it, the better you get, and LIVE is leaps ahead of sony in that dept, and thats why MS will get my mooola, not sony. But then again, LIVE isn't for everyone.


Also, I loved reading the posts in the sony thread, talking about how garbage the xbox's are, breaking down and such. Mine is still from the first day of release, and runs great(knock on wood) and the 5 friends I had that had pshitters, all broke.

FlyByNight
05-21-2005, 07:10 PM
It's crazy enough when you realize the console's sales didn't top the 200 units while the same devs that were not supporting Nintendo who was outselling the PS2 with its Gameboys and outselling the Xbox with its Gamecubes are supposedly supporting the new Xbox with strong game sales in mind. What's next, support for the N-Gage?

And last I check I didn't say Sony was my girlfriend and that she loved me very much, but that they had the market share to make development for their console a logical choice. It is more propable that companies develop for the PS2 because of potential actual sales rather than because they will be paid by the console's maker just to make the games.

EDIT: whats ur point? developers should make games for ps because they will sell more copies? if thats the case, then why dont they just take the money from the console manufacturers initially and avoid the hastle and stress of having to make a commercial best seller... maybe then the developers can spend a little more time trying to make a decent game instead of best selling game. (there is a difference) :EDIT

and also???! ur saying the devs shouldnt make money from the console manufacturers, but only from game sales?? what difference does it make, its all money to them...

how about the fact that it is easier to program for xbox? how about the fact that xbox has better live play?? I dont think its fair that u criticise the xbox console, just because they spent money to get it all up and running succesfully... its called capital, and MS had a whole lot of that.... im glad it was them and no-one else... people got real bad atitude towards MS cos its so bloody easy to use them as a scape goat

if it wernt for MS, none of us would even be in this forum....

WeirdoStudio
05-21-2005, 09:22 PM
if it wernt for MS, none of us would even be in this forum....

Amen Brother...Someone earlier said that there will be good games for both systems.. That is why i will buy both when available, but i don't understand how people get so amped up and are already crowning the PS3 as the system winner by just seeing some game trailers rendered on something else.. NOTHING PLAYABLE.. And then you have the guys who like to drop names like "such and such stopped by my booth and told me this" Yeh right.. That is really going 2 far to win an argument..

Nathellion
05-21-2005, 10:01 PM
It seems this thread is in dire need of a cynic. I nominate...Me! Now repeat after me:

All companies exist solely for the purpose of making money, regardless of the personal goals of their constituents. Money drives industry. They all say they care about making great products, and perhaps some of them really do...but what does a great product bring? That's right - money!

Now enough of this talk about companies being greedy, because if Microsoft is greedy, then so is every successful business in the world. Their inexorable drive to make money is to our benefit, in my not-so-humble opinion :thumbsup:

sebek27
05-22-2005, 01:27 AM
actually I was all for PS3 till I found out all this stuff about Live and xbox360 and i'm definitely getting 360 then possibly PS3. XBOX Live will be FREE and will come with xbox360 - it will let you download games, demos, movies, movie trailers, let you video/voice chat with others. Also while you are watching something, live is running 24/7 so you can have it enabled so a message pops up if and when your friends are online. Also for the not so hardcore gamers there will be other things including solitare, bejeweled 2 and other really cool games and movies for download. Microsoft is really trying to capture the whole market and get an xbox 360 into everyones home since it won't just be a gaming console.

novadude
05-22-2005, 06:13 AM
@sebek27, while the Live connection to view those things is free, many of the downloads will cost money

E3 was a failure in my books this year. Nothing made me think "I NEED one." As it stands, there is nothing to make me buy either console on launch day. I'll probably change my mind when I see actual retail version gameplay footage, but until then...

limousine
05-22-2005, 09:08 AM
Awful design. I hope the engine can have at least 50% of the PS3 power. PS3 looks awesome.

- limo

BillSpradlin
05-22-2005, 09:31 AM
The PS3 I'm sure will be a powerful machine, but it's a little difficult to garner a logical comparison between the Xbox and PS3 when all Sony showed was pre-rendered/scripted "real" time and tech demos. Which all show nothing for what a final game is going to look like.

Dunedain
05-22-2005, 12:10 PM
I was standing in line waiting to get inside the theatre set-up by MS just to see The XBox 360 with a friend minding our own business, then suddenly a PS3 fanboy jumped out of nowhere demanded: "Which is the better console? PS3 or X-Box 360?" I can smell a fanboy a mile away. When I responded "360" his face somewhat showed a slight disappointmnet to my answer (I think he really was waiting for me to say: "PS3"). Then he demanded: "Why?!" The answer was simple: CONNECTIVITY. The X-Box 360 offers Out-Of-The-Box Silver Membership X-Box LIVE!... ...for FREE! I still have to hear from Sony rather than speculations.

Other than that, the comparison (or random thoughts) between the X-Box 360 and PS3 (http://www.majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-1-of-4/) based on specs. If PS3 folks can't stomach it, blame it on the guy who made the blog.

Now that the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 specifications have been announced, it is possible to do a real world performance comparison of the two systems.

There are three critical performance aspects of a console:

Central Processing Unit (CPU) performance. The Xbox 360 CPU architecture has three times the general purpose processing power of the Cell.

Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) performance. The Xbox 360 GPU design is more flexible and it has more processing power than the PS3 GPU.

Memory System Bandwidth. The memory system bandwidth in Xbox 360 exceeds the PS3’s by five times.

Images of the X-Box 360. Upclose during the last day of E3...

http://www.dunedain.rustedmind.com/E3_2005/IMG_xbox360_04.jpg
http://www.dunedain.rustedmind.com/E3_2005/IMG_xbox360_05.jpg
http://www.dunedain.rustedmind.com/E3_2005/IMG_xbox360_06.jpg
http://www.dunedain.rustedmind.com/E3_2005/IMG_xbox360_07.jpg
http://www.dunedain.rustedmind.com/E3_2005/IMG_xbox360_09.jpg
http://www.dunedain.rustedmind.com/E3_2005/IMG_xbox360_11.jpg

Just_David
05-22-2005, 01:17 PM
LMFAO.. well done MS, getting seemingly one over Sony in the hardware dept. Im sure Sony fanois will be frothing at the mouth after reading that article.

Guess this will be my first xbox system then. Cant wait for it to take over as my media hub !

NickBFTD
05-22-2005, 04:57 PM
that "comparison" made by Microsoft really doesnt amount to much when you look into the specs a little futher.

FlyByNight
05-22-2005, 05:10 PM
there must be somme people on these boards that know what this major nelson report is saying.... could someone please make heads or tails of it???... pleeeeease:sad:

it sounds very factual information, ie, something that he couldnt really be bare-faced lying about... but u never know... hes not gonna say, 'ps3 gon kik our ass outta the games industry'

but alot sounds very plausible.... if microsoft know ANYTHING, they know about computers and s/w.... so it sounds very likely that they have taken advantage of the architecture of the 360 to make it easier to program for, and more efficient for the tasks that it will be encountering...

the cell processor sounds like useless overkill, and something that doesnt really lend itself directly to games processing... but again, as i say, i cnt make proper heads or tails of it:sad:

help....

NickBFTD
05-22-2005, 05:22 PM
for one thing the xbox can only access 10mb of ram at those high speeds the main memory bandwidth is less than that of the ps3

also the comment about general purpose processing power, it is true xbox 360 has 3 general purpose cores and ps3 only has 1, the ps3 also has 7 other cores that are not taken into acount due to them not being "general purpose" a games console is not a general purpose system.


and don't look at this as a sony fanboy post, i'm just leveling the field.

novadude
05-22-2005, 06:37 PM
The article is slanted, but everything in it is factual, and is just a counter to the Sony documents. While the PS3 has the most power available, it is split up amongst various processing units and it will be up to some very creative coders to get it running at its full potential. With XBOX 360's identical cores you can have games be SMP aware and multi threaded, allowing the embedded OS to place needed computations on any available thread. With the PS3 you will have to decide which type of core to use.

Neil
05-22-2005, 09:31 PM
I know both systems will have great games, and both be powerful. But what Sony Doesn't have, is an established online community, like Xbox LIVE.

It's not that hard to establish online support/community. Hell, Blizzard went with their first attempt into massive MMO and are killing the market.

zappenduster
05-22-2005, 09:36 PM
It's not that hard to establish online support/community. Hell, Blizzard went with their first attempt into massive MMO and are killing the market.

but blizzard can look back 10 years of games with a large community its not that they started at zero they just used their portfolio right and got success

Hazdaz
05-22-2005, 10:41 PM
I personally don't even care about LIVE! - I am not an online gamer - but LIVE! creates a community for ALL XB360 games and gives them a single point of contact with a consistant look and feel for everyone and everygame. To many people LIVE! alone is good enough reason to stay with an XB360 come next generation.

FlyByNight
05-22-2005, 11:23 PM
for one thing the xbox can only access 10mb of ram at those high speeds the main memory bandwidth is less than that of the ps3

also the comment about general purpose processing power, it is true xbox 360 has 3 general purpose cores and ps3 only has 1, the ps3 also has 7 other cores that are not taken into acount due to them not being "general purpose" a games console is not a general purpose system.


and don't look at this as a sony fanboy post, i'm just leveling the field.

no that doesnt sound fan-boyish to me, thats exactly the kind of info i was looking for...:thumbsup: cheers...

nova dude living up to your know-it-all reputation:thumbsup:

Neil
05-22-2005, 11:48 PM
but blizzard can look back 10 years of games with a large community its not that they started at zero they just used their portfolio right and got success

And Sony is starting at zero?

FlyByNight
05-22-2005, 11:53 PM
And Sony is starting at zero?#

i will be very very surprised if sony manage to make a live service that would even be half as succesful as the xbox.... MS know online services, they will have video messaging, they will have 6months of extra time to convert next gen fans, they have the .net passport service to directly link with alll the messaging, and the fact that u can run tv through your xbox so that u are always connected and receive game invites makes the xbox seem like the clear live winner...