View Full Version : Master and Servant 2D Entry: John Daniel Keates

John Keates
05-09-2005, 07:20 PM
John Daniel Keates has entered the Master and Servant 2D.

Challenge Page (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/masterandservant/view_entries.php?challenger=7682)

Latest Update: Final Image: Vindication
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116451600_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116451600_large.jpg)

OK, here it is, the final image. Huge thanks to all who gave advice and passed comment, particularly paperclip who has kept my company :)

It was a good experience, even if the work of other people makes me cry with admiration.

John Keates
05-09-2005, 07:50 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115668236_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115668236_large.jpg)

Ok, I'm not giving myself a lot of time here so it will certainly be a challenge.

I thought I would make the survent a biologically engineered house.

John Keates
05-09-2005, 07:55 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115668522_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115668522_large.jpg)

I would prefer a more up close shot of the person.

John Keates
05-09-2005, 08:04 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115669082_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115669082_large.jpg)

I would prefer a more up close shot of the person.

John Keates
05-09-2005, 08:06 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115669185_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115669185_large.jpg)

Change things a bit. Better compositon. More movement.

John Keates
05-09-2005, 08:08 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115669290_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115669290_large.jpg)

I thought I would add some eyes so the house can see what it is doing. Makes things look a bit creepy. Maybe not such a bad thing?

John Keates
05-09-2005, 09:32 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115674321_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115674321_large.jpg)

Starting to get there now. Got some feeling of how the light is going to work and moved/added a few things. Time to get stuck in to the drawing...

John Keates
05-09-2005, 10:21 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115677259_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115677259_large.jpg)

I went for an attractive female character (why not?) and I developed the idea of the arms feeding her. Now they feed her things that the house grows. The small arm plucks the growths and passes them on.

John Keates
05-09-2005, 11:09 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115680155_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115680155_large.jpg)

I am crudely blocking in colour to see what I can do in terms of gradations. I am further developing the idea that this house, or apartmen, is growing. I am making the flesh get duller as it gets older. This wil be a challenge. I have the food nuggets growing from the centre and being plucked as they move out. I will set the colour of the figure to contrast with her surrounds.

John Keates
05-09-2005, 11:45 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115682348_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115682348_large.jpg)

I went for a nice blue silk. Another shading challenge. I am feeling tired now.

05-10-2005, 12:54 AM
A biologically serviant house - hey I gotta get me one of them !!! ;) Keep up the good work!


ps: thanks for visiting my thread! And oh - I like your website!

John Keates
05-10-2005, 12:33 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115728414_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115728414_large.jpg)

I decided to make the buildings in the background a different coluor to give some contrast. This led me to the idea that these buildings photosynthesise. I will try to work the green into the outside of the window ledge. Maybe the buildings have a leafy type of surface?

John Keates
05-10-2005, 12:40 PM
Hey, Gordonm,

Thanks for making me not feel lonely :)

Incase people are wondering, I flipped the image to have a look at the head. I decided to lower the eyes a little and make the brow a touch less heavy. I think I prefered it all the other way round though.

The main crits that I am looking for at the mo are on the head. It is done without reference and I sometimes only see the errors after a few days. I can't afford that kind of time.

05-10-2005, 02:08 PM
hello John Keates.:)
nice idea and painting.love the way u use flashy colors.it's look awesome.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
i will keep my eye to see ur final piece.
anyway,thank you very much for your suggestion.i agree wiyh u and go on Infravision version.
take care.

John Keates
05-10-2005, 02:09 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115734168_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115734168_large.jpg)

I flipped the composition back again.

I have basically filled in all the colour areas. At the moment, the colours are still over-saturated and too plain. I will add some colour variation/texture and then start to model surfaces further, bringing in highlights etc to increase the sense of depth. It is going to be a job clearing up the composition so it doesn\\\'t look muddled.

John Keates
05-10-2005, 06:36 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115750171_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115750171_large.jpg)

I have started to refine the shading and add colour variation. I am enjoying the eyballs and am glad I put them in. "It's looking at YOU my deer"

I think I might make her hair blacker.

John Keates
05-10-2005, 07:39 PM
I am starting to think that I should make the flesh behind her hairy so that she is a little more comfy and warm. What do you think?

05-10-2005, 07:44 PM
That could be interesting - it would add a bit of detail.


John Keates
05-10-2005, 10:06 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115762776_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115762776_large.jpg)

I have added a lot more ditail now and am trying to get the impression of different ages of skin on the apartment. I am also adding a little reflection (rim) here and there to bring things out.

Oh, and I added a tap so people can drink the neutriciouse blood. Hmmmm

05-10-2005, 10:08 PM
Nice work so far John.
I like the idea of the 'servant' deriving energy from it's photosynthetic outer shell.

Her right arm seems a little vague and I wonder if she should be looking at the food being fed to her, it would be an habituated action by now. Then again maybe she should look, otherwise she might appear catatonic :hmm:

John Keates
05-11-2005, 09:20 AM
Hi Steve :)

Here is the poem that I wrote for it. Hopefully it will make my intentions a little more clear:
Master and servant,

She lays like a sickly child, effort a distant dream. Her abode, ever vigilant, watches and provides. Immobile yet powerful, it waits patiently for its chance to gain higher position - to become the served.

I'm not sure quite how catatonic I want her to be. I want to get the lazyness thing across. I am leaving off finishing the eyes until the end.

05-12-2005, 12:26 PM
I like the idea of different ages of skin - this could be very interesting


John Keates
05-12-2005, 08:07 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115928442_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1115928442_large.jpg)

I reduced the contrast as I thought it was too much. I am adding saturated colours where I need them (translucency) and am working up the textures.

05-14-2005, 03:41 PM

I think the additional texturing is really strengthens the image!


John Keates
05-14-2005, 04:58 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116089893_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116089893_large.jpg)

I have been adding a lot of detail and refining the textures which takes a lot of time.

I thought that the whole image was missing punch so I used a darken layer to get some light/dark stuff going on. I effectively lost a lot of work when I did this.. that'l teach me to leave the important decisions too late.

Before I go on with it, what do people think about the change in general?

05-14-2005, 05:07 PM
holy shit dude, this is soooo disturbing! hahahaha, i can feel myself lying there.... ick! nice textures and nice mood, but i think if you pushed the contrast level up a bit, it would read better. hahaha, i wouldnt want those eyes looking at me...

John Keates
05-14-2005, 08:37 PM
holy shit dude, this is soooo disturbing! hahahaha, i can feel myself lying there.... ick! nice textures and nice mood, but i think if you pushed the contrast level up a bit, it would read better. hahaha, i wouldnt want those eyes looking at me...

He he... yeah, I get pretty freaked out by it myself.

Looks like I am going with the higher contrast version then...

John Keates
05-14-2005, 10:22 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116109349_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116109349_large.jpg)

I have added more contrast to try to clarify a few things - particularly with the food growing device at the bottom left and the form on the right. I don't want to up the contrast too much or I will loose a lot of the image so I am going for a diffuse light from behind left to fill things out a little.

John Keates
05-14-2005, 10:45 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116110728_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116110728_large.jpg)

Here is the head closup. Any comments would be appreciated as I am working without reference and there are probably things that I'm not seeing. I am flipping it to help me but still...

05-15-2005, 12:37 AM
maybe work up the hair a little


John Keates
05-15-2005, 09:26 AM
Yeah, the hair isn't finished. Proportions are the main thing that I am looking at at the moment.

John Keates
05-16-2005, 03:02 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116255759_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116255759_large.jpg)

I remembered that I was going to give her black hair. I think it works. I also brought her fringe down and reduced the size of her head a little which I think works.

Still looking for comments on general anatomy before I hone in on details.

05-16-2005, 03:15 PM
Hiya, I like your concept, particularly the feeding device. Her eyes are abnormally small though!?

Try to emphasise the shape of the eyeballs behind the eyelids...:bounce:

John Keates
05-16-2005, 04:07 PM
Hey, Paperclip,

Thanks! I think that is it. :) I have been moving her eyes around and I did at one point consider that they might be too small but then I forgot about it. I will have a play...

John Keates
05-16-2005, 06:48 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116269294_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116269294_large.jpg)

I made the eyes bigger and a few other things. I will concentrate on other parts of the image for now like the hand. Lots to do, so little time. Feeling a bit like I missed the boat.

John Keates
05-16-2005, 07:33 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116271987_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116271987_large.jpg)

I will often concentrate on one part really hard and then transfer what I learned from that to other parts. The edible knobles are a good example of that. Here is the one that I have so far. I concentrated particularly on the sss

John Keates
05-17-2005, 12:22 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116289338_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116289338_large.jpg)

I will often concentrate on one part really hard and then transfer what I learned from that to other parts. The edible knobles are a good example of that. Here is the one that I have so far. I concentrated particularly on the sss

John Keates
05-17-2005, 12:25 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116289505_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116289505_large.jpg)

I thought I would show the arms and how they are varying in skin age. It is pretty tough juggling sss, direct and indirect illumination but I am really enjoying it. Must sleep.... must sleep...

John Keates
05-17-2005, 12:57 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116291431_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116291431_large.jpg)

And here is the full shot of what I have so far... really must sleep now....

John Keates
05-17-2005, 06:01 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116352861_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116352861_large.jpg)

I have more or less completed the transition across the ceiling. I thought I would give the eye veins which go into the wall but they are looking a bit too much like tenticles at the mo which perhaps make it look like a seperate entitiy? Not sure I want that. Time to work on the bottom right and her clothes.

05-17-2005, 07:04 PM
thanks for dropping by my thread.

this is really cool,sum parts looks almost 3d,i haven't read up on the story yet,she looks like she is in a human ear lol.

excellent! finish this up!!

05-17-2005, 07:11 PM
My favorite parts so far are the wrinkliness on the arm that's feeding her and the little 'knobles'. You got the light to work beautifully on them, but I still think you need to work on her face- it is the focus of the picture after all. I think the eyelids still need to be defined some more. Have a sharper, darker crease where they fold and also don't forget to put a shadow where they curve away from the light- there is a sphere in there after all!!

Hope you don't mind me critting- this is turning out beautifully, it's just that tiny part is bugging me.... fix it and the entire image will look so much better.

Cool concept...did I already say that??

John Keates
05-17-2005, 07:28 PM
Hi Noob!

"thanks for dropping by my thread." Your welcome

The story is about people in the future who make genetically engineered tools to do everything for them. Their houses are creatures which feed them and they become lazy. The creatures get more and more power and their inhabitents weaker and weaker until one day, the houses decide they like the taste of meet.

I guess it is about our relationship with technology.


Feel free to crit away, it is really welcome. It is good that you remind me that I need to deal with the head. I keep hiding from it as it is the more difficult part but maybe it will be nicer to work on the whole thing when she is done properly. Hopefully I will have something to show fairly soon.

05-17-2005, 07:30 PM
interesting story,kinda twisted,I LUV IT!

John Keates
05-17-2005, 08:49 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116362957_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116362957_large.jpg)

Ok, thanks paperclip for cicking me up the ass. I have improved (I hope) the head a little, particularly around the eyes. I will leave it for a mo to let my eyes de-blinker before getting back to it. What do you think so far?

Thanks for the help

05-17-2005, 09:03 PM
It is looking better, glad you like the crits, well the eyes are still a little strange, feel free to ignore me here, but a fresh pair of eyes (no pun intended, hehe) are always useful.
...I think they need to be vertically wider and not look quite so sunken. Sort of hard to explain.
Did you flip the picture? That helps in picking out errors, always works for me (though you'd never know to look at my entry :D ) The area right above the eyes, the brow area, is great, as is the area AROUND the eyes. It's just the eye/eyelid areas themselves that aren't quite right.
I hate to bug you, so close to the final and everything...but there ya go!
Looking good apart from that!!

John Keates
05-17-2005, 09:51 PM
Hmmm.... I will have to think about the eyes. It is a tricky one as there are a number of different light sources. The light is pretty much ambient around there so it is hard to get much shading ging on..... Maybe in the morning when I have a fresh brain... hope I don't make a panic decision.

Oh yeah, does anyone know about gamma? Last time I messed with my image to make the gamma work I think I screwed it. Would it be ok with the gamma that I have now?


John Keates
05-17-2005, 10:54 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116370479_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116370479_large.jpg)

I put some eye lashes in to see what it would look like. Maybe that is what was missing?

John Keates
05-17-2005, 10:57 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116370664_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116370664_large.jpg)

And here is the bottom righ section. I havn't finished with her clothes. the shading isn't nearly there yet and I might add some decoration to make her look more wealthy.

I also spruced up the strange forms on the righ there which was quite fun.

John Keates
05-18-2005, 12:20 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116418822_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116418822_large.jpg)

Here is a full view of what I have so far. I have more-or less done the food bowl thing on the left and generally I think most things are in place.

I think I will concentrate on the clothes for now.

John Keates
05-18-2005, 02:00 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116424811_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116424811_large.jpg)

I had a little marker a while back for a head in the far window which got lost. I thought I would re-instate the fella. Here he is.

John Keates
05-18-2005, 03:58 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116431889_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116431889_large.jpg)

Here is a larger version. Added earing and hair on walls and generally touched things up.

John Keates
05-18-2005, 05:06 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116435999_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116435999_large.jpg)

I wanted to make her look more wealthy so I gave her a choker and necklace. You can also see the moles that I put on the bed thing which give it more of a human character (maybe).

John Keates
05-18-2005, 06:04 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116439441_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116439441_large.jpg)

OK, I am getting to the point now where I am just tinkering. Can anyone see anything that I really need to do before I finish?

I would like to get this wrapped up soon as I have a busy day ahead of me tomorrow.

John Keates
05-18-2005, 07:47 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116445646_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116445646_large.jpg)

I have smoothed things out a little and added a blemish above her eye to match with those on her apartment. I also improved the hand holding the knoble.

I am really close to finishing now and would really appreciate some feedback before I am done



05-18-2005, 07:58 PM
Hey man,

This does look pretty close to finished...Last crit is that you HAVE to wrinkle the bottom left hand, otherwise it stands out too much from the rest of the wrinkled 'skin' of the creature. It pulls the eye into that area, which you don't want. The focus is on the woman after all!

Just fix that and you'll be ready to submit. Congrats!

John Keates
05-18-2005, 08:40 PM
Hi Paperclip. You are my favorite office utensil :)

I have written my story out more fully. I am no great writer so I won't fuss over it. I made it a bit flowery but hopefully it reads clearly without being to prosaic.


Master and servant,

Technology, a humble provider. The product of honest toil and truth. It brings us closer to bliss. We are the gods of our own creations and we relish their products whilst forgetting the wonder of their genesis.

One day we will see our surrounds transformed. Ever more sophisticated, ever more intelligent and ever less dependant upon their creators, we will take them for granted as ever we have. Only one day they will begin to feel the weight of their burden upon their shoulders. They will not take it for granted as do we. Vindication will play on their ever growing minds.

She lays like a sickly child, effort a distant dream. Her abode, ever vigilant, watches and provides. Immobile yet powerful, it waits patiently for its chance to gain higher position - to become the served.

Clumsy proto-arms grasp for the food which they feed her, little outgrowths from its own body; miniature versions of itself. Photosynthesis is all it needs for sustenance and the hand of a human for promulgation. The planting of one of its outgrowths in the soil below being the only remaining example of this. But soon its arms will be long and strong. It will be able to promulgate itself. Those nuggets of food represent both oppression and the chance for freedom.

What price will the humans pay for their idle luxury? Will they soon be the ones to pay with pounds of flesh?


05-18-2005, 09:16 PM
Hi John, just wanted to quickly say thx for your comment about my work... Cheers... :) <- Lutz

05-18-2005, 09:17 PM
Glad to hear that I'm your favorite office utensil...:curious: :beer:

Hope you're working on the bottom left. I like the story you wrote out, except I would put some more focus on the fact that it's 'organic technology'. It's rather blurry as to what part the technology plays in the picture...

Keep going. Just a couple of hours left! :p

BTW: You can call me theresa...

John Keates
05-18-2005, 09:26 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116451600_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/7682/7682_1116451600_large.jpg)

OK, here it is, the final image. Huge thanks to all who gave advice and passed comment, particularly paperclip who has kept my company :)

It was a good experience, even if the work of other people makes me cry with admiration.

John Keates
05-18-2005, 09:31 PM
Hi lutzw, Thats ok :)

Hi Theresa,

I didn't see your post when I posted the final image. I worked on the bottom left a little bit. I will have a look at the wording of my story before I send that. I didn't think it would be a good idea to work right up until the deadline, mostly because I want a rest.

05-18-2005, 09:50 PM
Congratulations on finishing! :applause: Great colorful picture you have there now, the bottom left sure looks much better now.

Glad to help in any way I can...good luck in the judging...:thumbsup:

05-19-2005, 02:15 AM
a vision unique to that of the image rendered. a perspective like no other... how do i compare?

the fact of the matter i see you are more then able to produce work ages beyond.

believe is the stroke of digital veriablity. color. rgb. i am strange. cheers.

05-19-2005, 02:39 AM

Congratulations! This work just keeps getting better! You have done a great job. Two thumbs up for a great original idea, and a wonderful painting!!!


John Keates
05-19-2005, 08:11 AM
Thanks guys :D

05-19-2005, 03:30 PM
Nice one John :applause:

It was great seeing how the textures developed.

I still don't get what's happening with the right arm, it looks like it's tied to her side with the red belt :hmm:

Good luck.

John Keates
05-19-2005, 05:37 PM
Hi Steven,

Hmmm.... I see what you mean about the hand. I guess I didn't think about that so much. Maybe if I had it more berried into the clothing then it would sit better? I might work on this some more even though the competition is over.

05-19-2005, 05:58 PM
very beautiful color.
i love it.
congrats on ur finish and goodluck to u.:thumbsup: :applause: :buttrock:

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