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fxgogo
10-07-2002, 03:42 PM
I am about to buy a compositing package, and it was going to be After Effects, which I have used for ages. But with this good deal for combustion, I am tempted to go the Discreet route. I mostly do Broadcast design, but I also do effects work, so this is my question:

To you people who have used both, does Combustion work well as motion graphics compositor, and is there any scripting facilities in Combustion.

Many thanks in advance.

KiboOst
10-07-2002, 04:27 PM
I would say : GO FOR COMBUSTION !! hey, this is the little brother of flame/inferno ! well, better environement, better roto, better keying, etc etc

But atm, no scripting way. This is a big wish for next versions.

Kib

fxgogo
10-07-2002, 08:50 PM
Yeah that is my thinking. The pro bundle of AE does not come close on many features of Combustion. It only has scripting going for it, but if that is a big wish list item, then its future should be secure.

What do you use combustion for? Do you have examples?

KiboOst
10-07-2002, 10:02 PM
I use it for blue screened people incrustation into 3d scene, with real 2d environements. And no, sorry I can't show anything, due to copyright :annoyed:

Another thing is that as C* is the small flame, then it will always go ahead with flames function, where AE need pure developement. Discreet is THE highend compositing/effect company, so ...
And yes, with new prices, I don't think AE will survive :beer:

check also rpf integration and elements out from max with 3d effects into c* :thumbsup:


Kib

Fede
10-08-2002, 08:20 AM
Hey,

I also say go combustion, and to prove it look at this reel

http://www.animill.com

I'm sure you will not have many doubts after this.

later

Splice
10-08-2002, 09:18 AM
Hey there,

I just saw your reel.... It looks really cool!!!

Was that done all with combustion and max?

What other kit are you using ?

Splice...:bounce:

Fede
10-08-2002, 09:34 AM
Hey,

I wish i could take credit for that reel but i can't :)

It actually belongs to a really cool dude Gary Davis who is a Discreet trainer too, some of you might know him from the discreet forums.

http://www.visualz.com

It is a fantastic example of integration between 3dmax and combustion, and that's it.

He is really talented as you can tell.

Later

Splice
10-08-2002, 09:36 AM
Ah... I know Gary well...

I was curious because animill is located in florida and you are posting from South Africa.....

You use combustion in South Africa?

Can we see your work ?

Splice...

Fede
10-08-2002, 11:11 AM
Hey,

Yes, i use C* here but i'm not able to show any thing at the moment cause of the same reason as KiboOst, but i'm working on a personal portfolio which i hope to put up soon as i'm looking for some work.

Later

fxgogo
10-08-2002, 02:10 PM
There are a few places in SOuth Africa that are using combustion. Try Atomic-vfx below, they have a reel on their site.

http://www.atomic-vfx.com/

Fede
10-08-2002, 02:47 PM
Hey again,

In deed VFX does have a seat there although their reel has more 3d in it, at least the one i saw, very cool none the less.

Other words from Gary Davis quote please keep in mind that it's a subjective view"

top 10 reasons for combustion over AE:

1. an actual, *usable* paint program integrated (no one seems to know or realize how great it is for paint)
2. multiple windows
3. playback while working
4. upward migration to flame/inferno (instead of a dead end)
5. schematic view. - 'nuf said
6. RPF and Render Elements integration with 3ds max
7. 3D paint inside 3ds max
8. the Color Corrector... ALL the work i do (both CGI and live action) goes thru the CC at some point.
9. the native Keyer is actually usable (Academy Award winning)
10. Backburner distributed rendering (not "skip existing" like AE)

...thats off the top of my head. im sure there are more. like anything.. there is always something more you want out of an application, but in my opinion there is just no contest between the two anymore (and no longer much of a price diff either!)"

fxgogo
10-08-2002, 09:34 PM
I just installed the demo and I must say I like the interface. I have no idea where everything is, but it looks nice. I noticed a quick capture option. I tried capturing from my DV camera, but no joy. Does C* not recognise firewire capture devices, as I could not find a setting in the preferences? Maybe I am just being stupid. More experimenting...

phatgroovn
10-08-2002, 09:56 PM
Firewire quick capture only works on a Mac

skidd
10-09-2002, 01:29 AM
only a few words, if adobe don't be more professional, more final qualities for big ends, they be lost de kingdom.

CC it's a big example, the facilities of AE it's the most beatuful in the world (hehe) but we need now "POWER", the CG people, step by step, more big ****ers hehe.... and we need POWER!!!


duh! :beer:

ps: i'm sorry if my english is bad, isnt my native language.:surprised

SheepFactory
10-09-2002, 02:26 AM
The UI of combustion is reason enough to pick it over AE imho.


the keyer and color corrector needs no praise , they are simply the best.

phatgroovn
10-09-2002, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by Sheep Factory
The UI of combustion is reason enough to pick it over AE imho.


the keyer and color corrector needs no praise , they are simply the best.

Amen. The discreet keyer pounds other keyers into vile submission.... :bowdown:


ok. more sleep for me.

Nando
10-09-2002, 09:16 PM
Dont forget that price reduction that ends Dec 31st

Combustion 2.0 plus Cleaner for $1497.00

;)

you cant beat that

fxgogo
10-17-2002, 12:05 AM
yeah I wont forget. I saw the demo being run recently and it was certainly fab. I am giving it a lashing at home right now.

eudemonie
10-17-2002, 11:25 AM
i would like to hear something from the ae users. what are the 10 reasons against cb?

Splice
10-17-2002, 12:09 PM
The biggest lack in the software is expressions.....

The other thing missing is variable speed control over the clips but that can be rectified with a plug-in called twixtor.....

Other then that there is not much else....

Larger user base perhaps and people who are too frightened of change :buttrock:

C2 works great for me:thumbsup:

Splice...

fxgogo
10-17-2002, 11:11 PM
I thought you could vary the speed of your clips? Is that plugin free?

I am an AE user, and here would be my list:

Expressions: I am really starting to use these and they are nice. But I understand the next release of C* will have it.

Adobe integration: I love the to and froing I can do with photoshop. Not sure if you can do this in C*

Cinema 4D has a great plugin for AE that allows your camera and light data to be imported. It also lays your rendered image passes into a comp nice and neatly, with light layers as precomps.

Splice
10-18-2002, 09:07 AM
In Combustion, you can vary the speed of your clips but only at a constant rate. For example you can run your clips at 50% their original speed but you cant change the rate of speed over time... going from 50% to 100%... that is what the plug-in does...

"Expressions: I am really starting to use these and they are nice. But I understand the next release of C* will have it."

Making assumtions like that will get you very disappointed when they release the next verrsion.... They have got all of this stuff on a wishlist and it is all dependant on time, resource and what they see as a priority.....

Combustion can currently import photoshop files with all the layers intact so theres the integration. Combustion also support Adobe Illustrator files so you can import files into combustion but keep all the vector properties intact meaning you can edit the shape in Combustion.

"Cinema 4D has a great plugin for AE that allows your camera and light data to be imported. It also lays your rendered image passes into a comp nice and neatly, with light layers as precomps."

Amazing how it is quickly forgotten. Combustion has been doing this for 2 years now with 3DsMax. Cinema 4D have only now caught on with AFX. Using combustion you can use RPF files and RLA files to transfer 3D Camera information. You have also got the multiple render-passes so you can edit elements seperately in combustion.

Splice...:applause:

fxgogo
10-18-2002, 04:24 PM
Oh I know about the rla/rpf function in max and combustion and I love it. I used it about two years ago on a job, and got my mouth watering. I also loved doing my motion blur in post. But I could never afford C*, so I had to live in misery for a while. Ae has a much poor 3d file toolset, and that is what turns me on with C*. I am going to do some tests with the render passes in Cinema 4D (C4d) and C*, as C4D also includes passes for your lights. Will keep you posted.

tommychan
10-23-2002, 09:12 PM
which one is easier to start with?
i am a beginner to those softwares, and i want to choose one of them to learn

fxgogo
10-24-2002, 02:39 AM
I cant hel pyou there really. I have used AE for a while now and I think the learning curve might not be so bad if you know other adobe products. From what people have said of combustion, once you get started it will be easier. Either way, i think you should rather think about what you want to learn. Combustion has the advantage of being very similar to it older brethlen. Also it will be better for effects work.

Gpin
10-28-2002, 08:00 PM
I'm a AE user, and a combustion tester.
And I have to say, the NODE view, the CC and the keyer, really makes me want to switch to combustion.

But on the other end, when i'm working on small projects, I'm more in favour of AE.

It's faster I think -

- Importing different format
- pre-rendering comps
- A lot of plugins helping me to achieve certain effects thae I would otherwise do manual.
- Scripting (expressions)
- Layering texts (good integration with photoshop and ai)
- Virtual sliders to control multiple effects values

I beleive Combustion can do almost all of the above, but the process seems a bit slower.


What I dislike about AE is

- NO unlimted workspace
- NOT Node based
- Interface for desktop user (windows based) and not for artists
(their should be an option to lock windows, dammit !!!!)
- Poor CC, ChromaKey, Paint (plugins are usually an alternative)
- It needs a color wheel !!!

Anyhow, hope this helps.

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