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Desert-of-Seth
05-01-2005, 10:55 AM
I've been re-drawing some photos in magazines.Would this help me improve my skills?If it isn't,what are the best ways of improving? :(

paperclip
05-01-2005, 01:08 PM
It WILL help you inasmuch as it will improve your hand-eye coordination, but you need to understand principles behind the art-- things like form, lighting, perspective and muscle masses. With proper knowledge of the basics, you will be able to draw anything.

LooOOoomis.

Desert-of-Seth
05-01-2005, 02:29 PM
I'm not a beginner at art.i think i know the basics of drawing;all i want is to make my pics look more life-like :)

Boone
05-01-2005, 02:44 PM
I find drawing from real-life( as in drawing yourself using a mirror ) to be very exhausting. I'd rather take a quick photo and reference that insted. Saves discomfort for both the artist and the subject! :)

SuperMax
05-01-2005, 03:30 PM
Drawing from photographs was the only way i learnt how to draw.

I couldnt draw people in real life.

A photo keeps everything steady. You done have to worry about each time u look at the foto the mouth is in a different position etc.

Draw people you know and Draw people that your not familiar with.

Drawing from a black and white photograph will help aswell. I used to photocopy alot of the people i wanted to draw. Just helps with the shading and tones and lines. Then eventually youll start doing it on your own instinctively and you can draw straigh from a colour photograph and even better, in real life.

:)

Desert-of-Seth
05-01-2005, 04:26 PM
I find drawing from real-life( as in drawing yourself using a mirror ) to be very exhausting. I'd rather take a quick photo and reference that insted. Saves discomfort for both the artist and the subject! :)

yeah,i know.it's also exhausting for the model ;) what i ask here is,indeed,would it improve my skills if i redraw a photo?

Desert-of-Seth
05-01-2005, 04:27 PM
Drawing from photographs was the only way i learnt how to draw.

I couldnt draw people in real life.

A photo keeps everything steady. You done have to worry about each time u look at the foto the mouth is in a different position etc.

Draw people you know and Draw people that your not familiar with.

Drawing from a black and white photograph will help aswell. I used to photocopy alot of the people i wanted to draw. Just helps with the shading and tones and lines. Then eventually youll start doing it on your own instinctively and you can draw straigh from a colour photograph and even better, in real life.

:)

Oh,thank you! i thought i was wasting my time ^^;

eparts
05-01-2005, 07:12 PM
you can say that when you are painting/drawing after a photo you definatly study the photo. You can get good to draw by just looking at things around you I think, but you really don't mind giving that much attention just to look. When you draw from a photo you study each little detail of what you are drawing. If you at the same time try to understand why the things you draw look like that.

I couldn't draw clothes and clouds at all, but I guess I learned alot of the basics behind clouds and clothes while painting some from a photo. Now I can paint clouds that I would say look like a cloud without reference.. atleast better then what I did before.

I dont think you will learn to draw life like faces, clothes etc without using reference. But you don't have to copy a photo completely- as long as you understand what is on the photo.
Drawing a cartoon character demands study aswell, but a cartoon character is easier to draw because we have all studied people trough life so we understand the basics of a character, for example that a man has two eyes..

mathew_er
05-01-2005, 07:41 PM
I'm not a beginner at art.i think i know the basics of drawing;all i want is to make my pics look more life-like :)
drawing from a photo doesnt allways give you the life-like look. you can have a perfect lighting and shading when copying photo exactly but working with model gives you much more life and dynamics. if you pose somebody and make a picture or use photo from magazine it doesnt look so natural. model sitting in a chair for two hours look more life-like. when somebody sits in front of you he gets tires, he moves ... thats not bat, this is also what puts live into drawing. if a model for example falls asleap and almost lays down, dont worry and draw it all into one piece. this drawing can look more life-like than any photocopy, but your probbably asking just for skill gain and getting the realistic look.

Gord-MacDonald
05-02-2005, 07:41 AM
You can develop some skills, but it is no substitute for a live model. Even if you can't get in front of a live model, try and draw friends, family, strangers in the park (- as long as they are not too strange!!).

Even copy artists work you admire - British artist David Hockney once said ( and Im paraphrasing), "copying other peoples art is a marvelous way to learn - teaches you to see though other peoples eyes"

Johannes Itten (of Bauhas fame, and later for his seminal work 'the Art of Color') had his students lay tracing paper over reproductions of old masters, and then in a very loose handling, draw the major arcs, curves etc from the reproduction, as well as laying down the tonality of the reproduction. They got to appreciate the fundamental pictoral structure of the works by doing this.

You might think of creative ways of using the photos - ex: what happened just before - or after the picture was taken - and then draw what you envision. Or what about trying to draw using the photo as a reference, but draw fron a different vantage point. Try and draw 'loose' rather than 'tight'.

Just some thoughts

Gord

Caermawdryn
05-02-2005, 11:08 AM
Although Photos are a way to improve the hand-eye co-ordination, I have found that working from life is the way to understand the real dimensions, gravity, muscle structures of people. One method is to keep a small sketchbook with you at all times. Observe and draw what you see around you- on the bus- waitng for the bus, in a cafe- whatever.. pick a subject/ victim and go for it, but spend no more than 5 mins on the sketch. Yes, they will move- but not that much- life models move too!
It doesn't matter if you "finish" the drawing, what is important is that you will be interpreting space/ negative space and translating the 3D to the 2D of the page. After a while you will find you are able to understand and render much more about the mechanics of the anatomy.. you will also get very quick at it. The main thing though is DON'T be precious about the drawings... they are sketches..learning excersises, they are the margin workings of a maths problem..not a final project, oh and the best way is to sketch in pen or not to use an eraser..this way you will be leaving in the construction lines and be able to see the "mistakes" and learn from them.
Hope its of some help.

JMcWilliams
05-02-2005, 01:32 PM
Although Photos are a way to improve the hand-eye co-ordination, I have found that working from life is the way to understand the real dimensions, gravity, muscle structures of people. One method is to keep a small sketchbook with you at all times. Observe and draw what you see around you- on the bus- waitng for the bus, in a cafe- whatever.. pick a subject/ victim and go for it, but spend no more than 5 mins on the sketch. Yes, they will move- but not that much- life models move too!
It doesn't matter if you "finish" the drawing, what is important is that you will be interpreting space/ negative space and translating the 3D to the 2D of the page. After a while you will find you are able to understand and render much more about the mechanics of the anatomy.. you will also get very quick at it. The main thing though is DON'T be precious about the drawings... they are sketches..learning excersises, they are the margin workings of a maths problem..not a final project, oh and the best way is to sketch in pen or not to use an eraser..this way you will be leaving in the construction lines and be able to see the "mistakes" and learn from them.
Hope its of some help.

Very good advice I think. :D

Libor
05-02-2005, 01:46 PM
Another important thing is that colors and values in a photo arenīt life like because of film process / digital sensor!

So in the end to master a color rendering, life painting/ drawing is neccessary....

Desert-of-Seth
05-02-2005, 01:56 PM
you can say that when you are painting/drawing after a photo you definatly study the photo. You can get good to draw by just looking at things around you I think, but you really don't mind giving that much attention just to look. When you draw from a photo you study each little detail of what you are drawing. If you at the same time try to understand why the things you draw look like that.

I couldn't draw clothes and clouds at all, but I guess I learned alot of the basics behind clouds and clothes while painting some from a photo. Now I can paint clouds that I would say look like a cloud without reference.. atleast better then what I did before.

I dont think you will learn to draw life like faces, clothes etc without using reference. But you don't have to copy a photo completely- as long as you understand what is on the photo.
Drawing a cartoon character demands study aswell, but a cartoon character is easier to draw because we have all studied people trough life so we understand the basics of a character, for example that a man has two eyes..

Yeah,i think using photos as reference would help better.
And,for that cartoon reference thing,i started off drawing anime characters :)

Desert-of-Seth
05-02-2005, 01:58 PM
Another important thing is that colors and values in a photo arenīt life like because of film process / digital sensor!

So in the end to master a color rendering, life painting/ drawing is neccessary....

Yes;but i also don't like using natural colours too :) i always want my chars to look impressive;with excessive make up and lightning :)

Desert-of-Seth
05-02-2005, 02:01 PM
Although Photos are a way to improve the hand-eye co-ordination, I have found that working from life is the way to understand the real dimensions, gravity, muscle structures of people. One method is to keep a small sketchbook with you at all times. Observe and draw what you see around you- on the bus- waitng for the bus, in a cafe- whatever.. pick a subject/ victim and go for it, but spend no more than 5 mins on the sketch. Yes, they will move- but not that much- life models move too!
It doesn't matter if you "finish" the drawing, what is important is that you will be interpreting space/ negative space and translating the 3D to the 2D of the page. After a while you will find you are able to understand and render much more about the mechanics of the anatomy.. you will also get very quick at it. The main thing though is DON'T be precious about the drawings... they are sketches..learning excersises, they are the margin workings of a maths problem..not a final project, oh and the best way is to sketch in pen or not to use an eraser..this way you will be leaving in the construction lines and be able to see the "mistakes" and learn from them.
Hope its of some help.

I really wish i had people around me who doesn't move much.My mom and dad are completely unavailable ^^; and my classmates move too much that cannot stay at one place for even a second -_- still,i'm drawing so much sketches at school;sometimes using myself for reference ^^;

Desert-of-Seth
05-02-2005, 02:04 PM
You can develop some skills, but it is no substitute for a live model. Even if you can't get in front of a live model, try and draw friends, family, strangers in the park (- as long as they are not too strange!!).

Even copy artists work you admire - British artist David Hockney once said ( and Im paraphrasing), "copying other peoples art is a marvelous way to learn - teaches you to see though other peoples eyes"

Johannes Itten (of Bauhas fame, and later for his seminal work 'the Art of Color') had his students lay tracing paper over reproductions of old masters, and then in a very loose handling, draw the major arcs, curves etc from the reproduction, as well as laying down the tonality of the reproduction. They got to appreciate the fundamental pictoral structure of the works by doing this.

You might think of creative ways of using the photos - ex: what happened just before - or after the picture was taken - and then draw what you envision. Or what about trying to draw using the photo as a reference, but draw fron a different vantage point. Try and draw 'loose' rather than 'tight'.

Just some thoughts

Gord

Actually,i loved that idea! :D redrawing my favorite artist's drawings will help me understand the composition and style they use :) thank you!

Desert-of-Seth
05-02-2005, 02:06 PM
drawing from a photo doesnt allways give you the life-like look. you can have a perfect lighting and shading when copying photo exactly but working with model gives you much more life and dynamics. if you pose somebody and make a picture or use photo from magazine it doesnt look so natural. model sitting in a chair for two hours look more life-like. when somebody sits in front of you he gets tires, he moves ... thats not bat, this is also what puts live into drawing. if a model for example falls asleap and almost lays down, dont worry and draw it all into one piece. this drawing can look more life-like than any photocopy, but your probbably asking just for skill gain and getting the realistic look.

*sighs* how i want to use a model,but no-one in my class and my family is available for that job :(

mathew_er
05-03-2005, 12:56 PM
*sighs* how i want to use a model,but no-one in my class and my family is available for that job :(
if you cant afford to give somebody few bucks for a 2 hour session or visit some figural-drawing classes (some art schools make it available for public or offer training for people that would like to apply) than you can allways go to café or other place where people doesnt move so much (for ex. museum, once one lady sitted there for about an hour for me)

[edit] i recommend you also to copy drawings from masters. michalangelo's work is avilable on the internet in fine resolution, also loomis has great anatomy/life-drafing books (try fineart.sk)

Gord-MacDonald
05-10-2005, 04:53 AM
*sighs* how i want to use a model,but no-one in my class and my family is available for that job :(

If you have to, get an inexpensive full length mirror (or even a couple of them!) and draw yourself - I did it for years (in conjunction with going to life drawing workshops)

Gord

Peddy
05-10-2005, 05:06 AM
if you can afford the time and in some cases, money, obviously life drawing classes are the best option. but as for your main question, it certainly wont do any harm to draw from photos, but try and draw from the identification of shapes and forms, not just tracing the lines in your minds eye.

munky_quack
05-10-2005, 10:58 AM
I would do life drawing classes but i work all day... we just do like 30second-2minmute poses for a period of two hours... pretty exasperating but I love it.

I once tried life drawing in a Pub.. but it just weirded people out

Had a friend who use to sit in denny's all night drawing the odd yolkles who wandered in at about 3... no one seemed to care (worth trying)

Desert-of-Seth
05-10-2005, 01:42 PM
If you have to, get an inexpensive full length mirror (or even a couple of them!) and draw yourself - I did it for years (in conjunction with going to life drawing workshops)

Gord

I will do it in summer,when i wear lighter clothes that does not hide much of my body ;)

Desert-of-Seth
05-10-2005, 01:46 PM
if you can afford the time and in some cases, money, obviously life drawing classes are the best option. but as for your main question, it certainly wont do any harm to draw from photos, but try and draw from the identification of shapes and forms, not just tracing the lines in your minds eye.

you're right.They say when i go to fine arts in university,i will study anatomy.Maybe i should learn the basics and wait for that time to come,since hurrying only gets me down ^^;

Joiku
05-10-2005, 02:57 PM
Yeah, there has been some very good points about the understanding in here.

Myself, I've never drawn from reference. I just don't find it worth the time and pain: Then I've done something that's already done by someone else. But I think this is about the individual way of learning. At school someone learns by just listening, other learns by doing and the third learns by writing a lot of notes. I'd refer painting from photos to writing notes.

Althought I never paint from photos, I do look at them wherever I see them, watch them with the certain Eye and try to remember the elements in them. That's why my memory sucks, I use all the capacity in remembering all the artistic things. ;)

I'd say that if drawing the picture helps you to remember the certain curve of shadow or important line of the nose, then draw it. But please keep in your mind, when you're drawing a picture which shows only the right half of the face, you still have to know how does the left ear look like. In my humble opinion, that's one of the most important things of being an artist.

Desert-of-Seth
05-10-2005, 03:06 PM
Yeah, there has been some very good points about the understanding in here.

Myself, I've never drawn from reference. I just don't find it worth the time and pain: Then I've done something that's already done by someone else. But I think this is about the individual way of learning. At school someone learns by just listening, other learns by doing and the third learns by writing a lot of notes. I'd refer painting from photos to writing notes.

Althought I never paint from photos, I do look at them wherever I see them, watch them with the certain Eye and try to remember the elements in them. That's why my memory sucks, I use all the capacity in remembering all the artistic things. ;)

I'd say that if drawing the picture helps you to remember the certain curve of shadow or important line of the nose, then draw it. But please keep in your mind, when you're drawing a picture which shows only the right half of the face, you still have to know how does the left ear look like. In my humble opinion, that's one of the most important things of being an artist.

absolutely!!! drawing from a photo or using a ref really gives me pain!But it sucks to be in need of one :( and i cannot remember everything i see from photos;maybe because i'm too used to see real people in real life :(

To tell the truth,examining professional illustrators's artworks adds a lot too :) i'm doing that for now :) i decided not to hurry.

Desert-of-Seth
05-10-2005, 03:08 PM
I would do life drawing classes but i work all day... we just do like 30second-2minmute poses for a period of two hours... pretty exasperating but I love it.

I once tried life drawing in a Pub.. but it just weirded people out

Had a friend who use to sit in denny's all night drawing the odd yolkles who wandered in at about 3... no one seemed to care (worth trying)

yeah,that's what i'm being shy about: disturbing people with my eye on them ^^;

i think i'll learn the basic proportions;and leave the rest to the university age,when i'll study fine arts ;)

Miss-Vyv
05-10-2005, 06:15 PM
I think it's a fine way to practice. As some others have mentioned, it doesn't replace live drawing though. It can't hurt, but I wouldn't rely on it completely.

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