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SheepFactory
10-06-2002, 02:37 AM
http://disney.go.com/disneypictures/treasureplanet/index.html

Per-Anders
10-06-2002, 03:34 AM
didn't know this was disney... hmmm, seems rather like titan ae to me... with all the same flaws, but we shall wait and see.

slaughters
10-06-2002, 04:04 AM
Of course, there are those of us who enjoyed Titan AE.

Planet Bob anyone ?

urgaffel
10-06-2002, 04:09 AM
There are?

mtmckinley
10-06-2002, 04:54 AM
I thought Titan A.E was a cool flick. Have a buddy who worked on it, too, so that was kinda cool. He helped with the "earth and moon blow up" sequance.

SheepFactory
10-06-2002, 05:56 AM
I loved titan AE. those explosion scenes were very cool.

EAP!
10-06-2002, 06:01 AM
Mmmmmm explosions!

PokeChop
10-06-2002, 06:20 AM
Hey, can I vote here too! I loved Titan AE! Excellent CG stuff! Choke one up for 'loved it' here!

Per-Anders
10-06-2002, 06:45 AM
i actually enjoyed titan ae... but it wasn't a classic. though those explosion sequences were amazing peices of cg... especially as the peice of earth smashes into the moon.

Pedro
10-06-2002, 07:11 AM
Titan AE was very nice in some parts, but overall it's a pretty bad movie.

The 3d graphics were great, I really loved the Space-Ice sequence. However, the blend of 2d animation and 3d was very jarring, not smooth at all.

It had the potential to be great, but it just became a normal movie.

Now, Iron Giant...

Tad
10-06-2002, 07:25 AM
Dude, I think this looks WAY cool.
i'm totaly down to see it, of course I wanted to see lilo & stitch also, and missed it :(

oh well, i'll see both in good time ! :)

anyways, I also liked titan AE, I thought it was a fun movie,
but I also thought some of the thechnical stuff was lowqual compared to what they're doing in fully CG flicks.
but I still liked it,

and yeah, it had nothing on the Iron Giant.
but not much does , hehe

AnimBot
10-06-2002, 08:23 AM
Wow! Titan A.E. was pretty terrible, except for the Ice Reflection scene that was a pretty cool way to build up some suspence. I'm looking forward to this film though.

Stimpy
10-06-2002, 09:52 AM
hmmmmmm.... lets hope they dont over do it. they seem to have the tendency to introduce totally unnecessary camera movements wherever they can just to show THAT they can...

"look we are not 2D anymore !!!"

with a zoom here, and a camera movement there, and lets spin around the main character once more to show all 360 of the environment.

looks more like a motion ride in the end than an actual movie. but well.. i guess they are targeting the kids anyway who will enjoy the roller coaster.

LucentDreams
10-06-2002, 10:21 AM
Well it was nice to finally see some animation of Silver to see how good the 3D robotic arm goes with the classical body and facial robotics (though some facial robotics ike the eye in a few scenes was definitely CG.) Thats the only CG part that interests me in this film.

To date the only film that has achieved really nice 3D camera moves is Cat's don't dance. I mean Tarzan did as well, but they used Deepcanvas for all that. Wonder why they aren't sticking to exclusively Deepcanvas, it works so well. This looks just like Titan AE and Atlantis, and boy were those successful films, NOT. Hope fully when this one doesn't do to well, disney will realise that Katzenberg's Tradigital concept doesn't work too well for either Disney of Dreamworks.

Its funny how all the CG guys that have posted so far have all mentioned they liked Titan AE or that it rocks, with comments on explosions being cool, but almost any classical animator I know thinks of that film as a prime example of bad feature animated films. Even anastasia did better, but the fact is, Bluth stuck to the rotoscoped, similar designs, CG that doesn't remotely match the 2D and overall lifeless flms. Man and to think I loved him back in the days of Dragon's lair and Space Ace, another two that had the exact same designs and such. Bluth likes to go on these little trends doesn't he. Why Disney started to follow bluth's lead with Atlantis was beyond me, and when it failed the idea that they would continue with it for treasure planet, why oh why. Wanna see great CG in a classical film, watch alladin Cat's don't dance and Iron giant, the stuff in Titan AE isn't even that good for the most part, look at the last scene on planet bob where it trucks out throught the atmosphere into spaces as the ships are coming. I mean those are some of the most amateurish procedural textes I have ever scene on the ground. There is some well done CG in there too, but more crap than good, and none of it fits the 2D.

Treasure planet still has a lot of potential, if they followed the story well, the CG is very well dones though obviously CG, the CG characters and arm seem to fit in quite well, ut the environments still don't seem to mesh, and whats with the reuse of the atlantis city in the moon planet there? I mean Toy story does this reuse all the time too, but at least they are a little more subtle. I think the ball texture has been in every pixar flm, and some of the other shorts to.

Howard Day
10-06-2002, 10:59 AM
And see, the sad thing is that most of these people who are exclaiming that the explosions were great don't realize that most (if not all) were one of two things: Stock Explosion Footage (such as that found at www.artbeats.com), or crappy Combustion work. There are far more creative ways to do this, and they will yield far most realistic results. The Earth explosion scene seemed pretty bland to me. Maybe I'm just jaded. :D The one thing I couldn't stand is the Planet Bob. Those textures are horrendous. I'd bet that the team ran out of time and just didn't care.
As for the Treasure Planet thing - The whole ships in space thing isn't very original. However I'll reserve judgement on it till I see it...

baby
10-06-2002, 12:23 PM
Glen Keane :buttrock: :buttrock:

RobinOberg
10-06-2002, 01:46 PM
how someone who likes cg can say they dont like titan ae is beyond me, the effects speaks for themselves.

this treasure planet looks promising, even though its disney(maybe they just bought it, like usually do these days)

Stimpy
10-06-2002, 01:53 PM
maybe cause "titan ae" was just plain bad IMHO??? do i have to like every movie with CG effects ??

yeah, the crystal scene was rather cool, but other than that i rather found myself kind of hopping from one cg scene to the next, while being incredibly bored inbetween....

baby
10-06-2002, 01:53 PM
So U think good CGI = good movie ?!?


U must be a big episode II fan ?!? :thumbsdow :thumbsdow



I find Titan quite boring, with a messy story, rythm :shrug: , and a very inelegant 2D/3D mix...(and if I remember well...I think music was strange also...)

it's a pity !!!

Stimpy
10-06-2002, 01:56 PM
not to mention Titanic... har har har

baby
10-06-2002, 02:10 PM
ohhh ?!?

U think Titan A.E. was a sequel to Titan I.C. ?!?


:rolleyes: :wip: :scream: :eek:

arvid
10-06-2002, 02:20 PM
i enjoyed the crystalsequence at the end, nice raytracing :wip:

baby
10-06-2002, 02:22 PM
from the crystal sequence was amazing... :applause:

slaughters
10-06-2002, 03:35 PM
I just enjoyed the Movie (Titan AE). The story was fun escapism aimed at a young audience. Sometimes I think people go so overboard in analyzing films that they forget to just sit back and enjoy them.

P.S. Shrek was good because it was funny, not because of great CG

Stimpy
10-06-2002, 04:10 PM
what made it hard for me to sit back and enjoy was the fact that it somehow didnt FIT together...

i think we all suffer from this work related disease, to try to figure out "how did they do it" everytime we see some special effects or whatever, or try to find errors, or spot the CG, etc.

and this movie kind of made it very easy, and that was rather distracting for me...

take for example the end shot on planet bob (...). the ground they were standing on just had CG-texture written all over it in bright neon letters.. so instead of looking maybe at the characters or listening to what they were saying, i was just waiting for the inevitable camera move to happen.



btw.. i think the same applies to david finchers "panic room". as well fitting as those camera moves were in "fight club", where they didnt bother me at all, but were i think an integral part of the story telling, in "panic room" it was all rather gimmicky imho.

like "yeah... i know you can do it.. so why do we need another impossible camera move into the flashlight ??"

Wiro
10-06-2002, 04:26 PM
Havent seen Titan A.E. because so many people say it's crap...but then again I totally LOVED Atlantis so maybe I should give Titan a try after all :)

I've got absolutely no problems with 2D/3D mixes. Occasionally it stuck out in Atlantis but I never thought it looked bad. In fact I was really impressed by some of the "grand" moments of the movie; during the nuclear blast in the beginning (loved the way the Leviathan hovers towards the camera), when the huge sub dives down, the cave with the flying rocks, when Kida turns to glass and walks with the force field around her, the giant robots clapping their hands to create the field around the city...I just loved all those beautifully art-directed moments.

Not to mention there was no singing 'n dancin' and people actually got killed. I sure hope Treasure Island will be like this too. I'm certainly looking forward to it!

Wiro

mtmckinley
10-06-2002, 04:52 PM
>>>The one thing I couldn't stand is the Planet Bob. Those textures are horrendous. I'd bet that the team ran out of time and just didn't care.<<<

Yeah, I had seen the movie with my friend I mentioned and he was disapointed... he had spent a lot of time on a really nice landscape for that end sequance, but someone screwed up and the 2D characters didn't line up with the big zoom out at the end, so they had some dude redo it in like a day or two... yeah, it was crappy. lol

arvid
10-06-2002, 05:04 PM
Wiro, I think you'll enjoy Titan AE as a movie, I did :) Was some neato 3D stuff in there too

SheepFactory
10-06-2002, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by opacity
i enjoyed the crystalsequence at the end, nice raytracing :wip:

No Raytracing in that scene , just environment maps. Thats what Alex lindsay said at the guerialla vfx presentation (making of titan ae).

they modelled the astreoids with Amorphium , LOL.

Xilica
10-06-2002, 06:51 PM
mm, trailer looks pretty interesting

Pedro
10-06-2002, 07:09 PM
If you watch the commentary on the Titan AE DVD, you'll realize that the directors didn't seem to have a real grasp of the 3d techniques, and were basically amazed that they could do things that we consider rather "Basic". Like Modelling a whole room. :P

More than a couple of times it seemed to me that they paid more attention to the effects than to the story.

Right now, Disney is King when it comes to blending 2d-3d. For instance, In Lilo and Stitch, the spaceships looked great, and yet they didn't deviate from the overall look of the movie.

However, in this new movie, the 3d isn't Cel-Shaded... Who knows if it will work? Based on the trailer, it looks weird to me.

In fact I can't think of anything that blends "Real-looking" 3d with 2d animation, and looks great.

Anyway, I guess we'll have to wait and see. :D

(BTW, isn't everyone else bored with the standard "Movie Announcer"? You know, the guy with a throaty voice on movie trailers that goes "One man... One way... In a world of darkness... the only hope... is vengeance" and all that... :P)

The Magic Pen
10-06-2002, 07:44 PM
Loved Titan A. E ...and this flick looks good too , there kid films made for a less mature audience of course there not going to be mind blowing stories , and as far as the effects go they did whatever they could do to come in at budget im sure . I am looking forward to the DVD or art book for treasure planet !!

noquarter
10-06-2002, 07:46 PM
Not to argue with you but what makes you think the artbeats/combustion work was crappy? Anything that rubbed you the wrong way in particular or you thought it was just overall crap in a more general sense?
Overall I liked the film. I thought the weakest thing was the character design. Just getting a little tired of the typical Don Bluth leading character. Don't Demetri from Anastasia and Kale from Titan look just a little similar? I had an instructor at school who worked on the project bring in some of the original concept sketches for the characters and they were outstanding. Too bad Don Bluth's unparalled meglomania spoiled the project.

Sgt.ArchAngel
10-06-2002, 08:09 PM
I just enjoyed the Movie (Titan AE). The story was fun escapism aimed at a young audience. Sometimes I think people go so overboard in analyzing films that they forget to just sit back and enjoy them.

man you said it
was just good ol fun watching titan A.E
and shrek yeah the story and laughter is what makes it so great
but i got pulled into watching it cause of it being CG(wich jsut happen to look great)

LucentDreams
10-06-2002, 09:04 PM
Non cel shaded 3D looking good with 2D, well alladin wasn't to bad, the carpet worked great but the cave of wonders was a little off, but Emperors new groove would probably bee the best for that, though its another Deepcanvas example so there you go why don't they use more deepcanvas?

And I am surprised to see what many of you guys have written about Titan AE's story (which wasn't very well written or that funny) and Shrek's story. Your CG artists, and to think that a good story with poor animation is okay really astonishes me. To think that all you need is a good story and your work can be crap is a bad way to think, its the exact same thinking that comes up with ideas like If the effects are cool we don't need a good story. Fact is a good movie has good everything. Shrek didn't deserve that oscar at all, very funny movie great voice talent (that all dreamworks PDI cares about is the voice talent anyways. The most I remeber from their presentation at our school is who's in what upcoming movie for the next five years) It also had some great sets and pretty nice colours, but outside of Shrek and Donkey, models were porr most animation was crazy stiff I mean the openeing part with the horde hunting shrek, very funny scene but all I could think of was how ugly the horde was and how poorly animated they were.

I always try to watch a movie once to enjoy it, and at least once more to study how it was done (we need to learn to right ) If you want good CG in a classical movie, one requirement is to fit in, most movies have falied miserable,good examples are still Cats Don't dance, Iron giant Alladin (watch the carpet) Lilo and stitch was pretty good and another I have been forgetting to mention would be Emperor's new groove, probably right up there with Cat's don't dance. Can anyone of the top of their head say what was 3D in Emperor's new groove, and while the deepcanvas is far more noticable in Tarzan with all the crazy camera moves, it didn't stick out, it made tarzan work, it helped it and fit in the style unlike Titan AE where non of the CG feels to be the same universe as the classical.

Fritz3D
10-06-2002, 09:37 PM
this new movie will be my all-time favourite at least in terms of universe design and style :)

baby
10-06-2002, 09:55 PM
don't forget the great mouse detective !!!!!


maybe the first time they used computer ?!? I think the end on the clock is really great !!!! with a very usefull use of computer...not the effect for the effect...almost expressionist

rason
10-07-2002, 02:11 AM
titan A.E.


was truly an amazing movie



i enjoyed it alot :applause:




all though i doubt this movie will be able to pull its weight


but time well tell ;)

Howard Day
10-07-2002, 04:08 AM
noquarter: It's the fact that they didn't make their own explosions for some sequences, and the ones that the did make looked like something from a 1992 computer game. With some very little effort, they could have created a wonderful sequence - Reminicent of the Mir disaster in Armageddon - that sticks with the viewer. They achived that to some degree, but it could have been sooo much better...

In regards to my previous comments, I understand that sometimes artists just don't have control over the end result of their work. I apologize if the comments seemed harsh, but I'm used to working as a freelancer, where they're very little excuse when something turns out crappy.
Once again, I apologize.

jscheel
10-07-2002, 05:58 PM
You have to remember, no matter how bad the explosions were, that the most important part of a film is the story. Unfortunately, sometimes special effects are first priority.

Chewey
10-08-2002, 03:40 AM
I caught that trailer yesterday when I viewed Miyazaki's Spirited Away. I suppose there's all sorts of cool looking stuff going on in the trailer, real colorful and techy looking.

Who makes these cheesey decisions to take a classic and turn it inside out with cyber skate boards and robots and such? Is this supposed to impress the 10 year old boys with its hipness?

Somehow I think this one's going to sink like a stone.

derelict
10-08-2002, 04:04 AM
I doubt it will do any worst than final fantasy in the box office. As for me i don't give much thought to boxoffice or whatever. If it is cg or animation i'll be there at the queue for the tic.:)

LucentDreams
10-08-2002, 06:08 AM
Originally posted by derelict
I doubt it will do any worst than final fantasy in the box office. As for me i don't give much thought to boxoffice or whatever. If it is cg or animation i'll be there at the queue for the tic.:)

whoa thats almost exactly what I said to the girl in the box office when I bought a ticket to Veggietales and one for Spirited Away that was showing almost immediately after.

Speaking of spirited away, after seeing it, Visually far more pleasing that watching the DVD on small theatre screen (our school has two theatres for about 100 people each fairly small but better than a TV) The translation compared to the subtitles on the Japanese DVD's was quite consistent for the first half of the movie, then the Dialogue started to change quite a bit, actually gave things away too early in some parts, lines of small significance were pointlessly changed to have a greater impact often ruining the scene. Not to say you won't enjoy it, but seriously if possible see the Japanese with english subtitles first as theres a little more discovery in it rather than spelling things out. Most the voices didn't botherme personally except chihiro/sen and the toad.

urgaffel
10-08-2002, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by The Magic Pen
Loved Titan A. E ...and this flick looks good too , there kid films made for a less mature audience of course there not going to be mind blowing stories , and as far as the effects go they did whatever they could do to come in at budget im sure.

Is it too much to ask that they have a good story in a kiddie flick? I mean... Iron Giant had a great story, great animation, great art directing... And it was for kids. Why not keep or try to rise above those high standards?

Even kids will think it's a piece of shit if the story sucks ass and the animation looks crap. They aren't stupid you know...

My thought after watching Titan AE was pretty much: *shrug* "Bah, boring". Same old cliches, same old character designs, same old happy happy joy joy ending... Now with cg! Oh well, maybe I'm getting old and cynical... No wait, I've always been cynical... Maybe the movies usually ARE crap?

Recent Disney movies I've liked: Tarzan, Emperors New Groove and Lilo & Stitch. Atlantis wan't bad, but it wasn't awesome either. I was annoyed that they more or less copied the anime Nadia: The Secret Of Bluewater from Gainax. I mean, everything was the same, the manners of the characters, their accesories, the story... The only thing they changed was the style. (non-anime style). Oh well.

-----

Very very OT, but about cg: How the fsck could someone approve of Buttugly Martians? It looks like someone beat the series to death with an uglystick and resurrected them with a thunderstorm. With hail. The size of footballs.

LucentDreams
10-08-2002, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by urgaffel
Atlantis wan't bad, but it wasn't awesome either. I was annoyed that they more or less copied the anime Nadia: The Secret Of Bluewater from Gainax. I mean, everything was the same, the manners of the characters, their accesories, the story... The only thing they changed was the style. (non-anime style). Oh well.

-----

Very very OT, but about cg: How the fsck could someone approve of Buttugly Martians? It looks like someone beat the series to death with an uglystick and resurrected them with a thunderstorm. With hail. The size of footballs.

Butt ugly matians never ceases to amaze me in how well a crappy cartoon poorly done can do.

As for the whole Atlantis stealing from Nadia thing, well its sorta like a cycle if you look at it that way, I mean we could discuss similarities between Nadia and Laputa, main difference being ones in the sky ones under water, Fact is three stories based on one novel using the same character stereotypes, you bound to have three similar movies. Considering how big of a miyazaki fan Lasseter and may other pixar/disney guys are, I wouldn't doubt that if they were directly inspred by another animation it would have been laputa as nadia is not as well known. I still seriously have my doubts.

urgaffel
10-08-2002, 11:20 AM
I based my statement on this:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/archives/feature/nadia.php

Which is a part of this article:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/archives/feature/atlantis.php

They had a picture of the Atlantis:Disney and the Nadia:Gainax gangs side by side and the similarities were striking.

slaughters
10-08-2002, 12:31 PM
Yes, yes, but later on there was an interview with some of the Disney artists which sort of resolved the issue.

Sort of un-related to the above, but kind of related to the theme of this whole thread:

Something to remember about art and movie production (not just in Hollywood).

Great art is cool if it sells. Otherwise it's nothing but a self inflicted pleasure. It makes the artist feel good, while satisfying nobody else in the room.

LucentDreams
10-08-2002, 08:21 PM
as stated before Urgaffel they are based off the same story, I mean seriously have you looked at the similarities between The lord of the rings movie and the lord of the rings cartoon, Gandalf is soooooo similar. See what I'm saying, they used typical character stereotyps in both designs.

derelict
10-09-2002, 02:49 AM
Hello Kaiskai,

The lord of the rings movie and the lord of the rings cartoon, Gandalf is soooooo similar. See what I'm saying, they used typical character stereotyps in both designs.

That is because in the 3 volume books by JRR, THAT is how Gandalf looks like.:) So, if Jackson or Ralph Bakshi wanted to do the dude rightly, that would be it. Hence the similarity.

It is not stereo typing between the two above mentioned show, it is artistic acuracy. They are diff in all sense.:)

Dere

parallax
10-09-2002, 09:31 PM
lovely

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