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JeffPatton
04-24-2005, 02:20 AM
Figured I'd start an Ornatrix thread with some introductory videos. Ornatrix website:
http://www.ephere.com/ornatrix/

So if you're new to Ornatrix and just trying to get started, here's the first basic videos:
8/8/06 - I've removed the videos from my server to free up some much needed space. If anyone still needs these videos, let me know and I'll load them onto a free host somewhere.

Video 1 - Basics
-Link removed to free up space on my server-

Video 2 - Ornatrix materials
-Link removed to free up space on my server-

Video 3 - Simple Dynamics
(right click save as please)
-Link removed to free up space on my server-

Video 4 - Mental Ray Hair
-Link removed to free up space on my server-

To reduce file size, videos are in low color settings & no sound. I may create additional videos covering more topics like dynamics, Mental Ray hair, VRay hair, etc., if there's interest in them.

Also, I have a few Ox dynamics tests in my gallery here:
http://www.jeffpatton.net/Gallery2.htm

At any rate, I hope these intro videos will help new users get a better grasp on Ornatrix.

Jeff

-Vormav-
04-24-2005, 07:10 AM
Hehe. Someone has a few plugins. ;)

I don't have ornatrix myself, but I'm interested in it (seems a bit better than HairFX from what I've seen. But maybe I just haven't used HairFX enough). In particular, I noticed that one of the ornatrix materials you used in the materials video had a vertex color channel. Does this mean that you can use vertex coloring to paint the hair if you chose to do so? Or would that setting be used in some other way?

SamSed
04-24-2005, 10:10 AM
IMO the bad thing about HairFx is that MR won't render it ( max 6 , 7 ) , i tried the demo version of Ornatrix and it's quiet impressive.

PS: nice video demonstrations Jeff :D , keep it up:thumbsup:

JeffPatton
04-24-2005, 12:38 PM
Hehe. Someone has a few plugins. ;)

In particular, I noticed that one of the ornatrix materials you used in the materials video had a vertex color channel. Does this mean that you can use vertex coloring to paint the hair if you chose to do so?

Yeah, I have one or two plugins..... :hmm: lol.

Yes, you are correct. That material will allow the hair to use the vertex colors for the hair color.

JeffPatton
04-25-2005, 04:04 PM
If you're an Ornatrix and VRay user and you're getting an error with "OrnaVRayHair.dlm " then it's probably due to the plugin.ini loading OrnaVRayHair.dlm before Vrender60.dlo.

You can edit your plugin.ini like this to solve the problem:
http://jeffpatton.net/cg-post/ox-vray.jpg

JeffPatton
04-26-2005, 01:28 PM
4/26/05 - Added Simple Dynamics and MR hair videos to original post.

SoLiTuDe
05-08-2005, 07:04 AM
u da man jeff! I was worried about ornatrix with shave comin out for max... but now that I've used it, I'm quite disappointed. =) Ornatrix renders so much faster, and is so much faster to get a good result. By no means am I putting down shave -- i know it's good and powerful... but I was def. expecting more.

stefan
05-08-2005, 09:56 PM
Please help. I allready tried to solve this for 3 days. Currently I have trouble to get rid of pixelations as U can see on image. Do not know from where it comes. Head is lit by spotlights with Ox's HairShadowMaps. And hairs are shaded by Ox Cheap Shader. So I need help. Thanks.

JeffPatton
05-08-2005, 10:10 PM
1) Which atmospheric effect are you using? (Fast or accurate?). If Fast, have you tried enabling the hair radius hit testing option? What setting are you using for the map size (volumetric hair shadows settings)

2) What are your settings for the shadow map size & filter size?

3) What renderer are you using?

stefan
05-08-2005, 10:27 PM
1. I am using Fast render Fx. Hair radius hit testing is On. I do not use selfshadow option .
2. Ox shadow map. Size-700 SampleRange-4 Ray-bias - 0.02 .
3. Default max scanline renderer .

And thanks for trying.

JeffPatton
05-08-2005, 10:59 PM
What if you change the shadow map size to 2500? Does that help remove the banding?

stefan
05-09-2005, 12:24 AM
Looks like it has no impact on quality /and render times are 2-3 times bigger./ But it is strange. /It looks like this pixelation is copying flow of geometry. Or something like this./ I give one last try to change antialiasing. If it will not help I will have to do retuching in Photoshop. Here is allready late. So thanks and good night.

I am going to retuch it.

Affter some tests- Looks like all was done by some strange bug witch has something to do with 7.5 release. Material react to shadows like there were faceted checkbox turned on. Even it is not. I am not sure yet. This version of bug was found just by user of 7.5 Viz extension until now. May be it is something bigger. I am going to reinstal. Hope is this.

MooseHead
05-10-2005, 12:03 PM
Wow, finally a discussion on Ornatrix! I just got the demo and it simply great (tnx for the tip on vray errors, Jeff). SInce i'm fed up of makin' furry balls, I'm trying to add fur to a cartoony moose model i'm working on latelly. Thus I think this is the right place to post some newbie questions...

Here is the cg-WIP link of my character: http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=229214

http://img191.echo.cx/img191/4518/m0342tk.th.jpg (http://img191.echo.cx/my.php?image=m0342tk.jpg) http://img204.echo.cx/img204/811/m0157fx.th.jpg (http://img204.echo.cx/my.php?image=m0157fx.jpg)

First thing: do I need to UVmap the model in order to apply the fur correctelly? In other words, has UVmapping anything to do with the fur process in ornatrix?
Second thing: I would i exclude certain areas in which i dont want the fur to be applied? I've seen some tutorial talking about a technique that involves selecting faces and cloning them as separate objects...is that all about? Cause I wish i didn't have to break the whole mesh in pieces:eek:
Third thing: shall I apply the fur before or after rigging the model?

Stefan, your fox is great, dude. How did you started with the fur? It would be of help with my character...cause I don't really know how to handle the fur of a complex model (at least more than a sphere..:shrug: ). pleez gimme some tip!

Ciao

JeffPatton
05-10-2005, 01:21 PM
First thing: do I need to UVmap the model in order to apply the fur correctelly? In other words, has UVmapping anything to do with the fur process in ornatrix?
Yes & No. I would still uvmap the model because you can use those maps to:
(a) Paint where you want and don't want hair.
(b) Gradient the hair length based on location. (short hair around face, longer on body)
(c) Color the hair based on location (like Stefan's Fox model).

I was going to put a tutorial together on adding hair to a large character using Steffan Unger's Tahoro model. I had started on the project before I became swamped with work:
http://www.jeffpatton.net/cg-post/brown-2.jpg

Right now, I'm not sure when I'll be able to pick this project back up again though.

[color=paleturquoise]Second thing: would i exclude certain areas in which i dont want the fur to be applied? I've seen some tutorial talking about a technique that involves selecting faces and cloning them as separate objects...is that all about? Cause I wish i didn't have to break the whole mesh in pieces:eek:
If you UVmap the character, you can just paint the location of the hair without breaking the character apart.


[color=paleturquoise]Third thing: shall I apply the fur before or after rigging the model?
I would say create the hair after it's rigged.

MooseHead
05-10-2005, 02:21 PM
Cool Jeff, I'm gonna first rig the Moose while I'll wait to see your next tutorial pal! Ciao:applause:

Bezerker75
05-10-2005, 03:27 PM
Hey Jeff Thanks for the videos, I have been thinking of buy Ornatrix for a while now....I installed the old demo...I think it was 1.3 version, but found it to crash max out alot when using dynamic simulations.....I was wondering if you had found it to crash you out alot....I was thinking maybe they have made the 1.4 version alittle more stable......even with the crashes I think I may end up buying it, due to the fact that max hair and fur system is very slow, and I like the almost instant feedback from ornatrix....so maybe i will buy it and hope that they work out the kinks....thanks again for the videos....

TTYO
05-17-2005, 03:40 AM
How to make the Ornatrix hair show up in reflections

JeffPatton
05-17-2005, 08:47 PM
Use the MR hair primitive or geometry option.

TTYO
05-18-2005, 03:28 AM
OKay thanks but I have a problem, the shaders do not work in Mental ray so how do I make the fur take the color of the mesh its growing from?

kopar
05-20-2005, 04:57 PM
Jeff>

I saw on your gallery page an image of a red ball in grass. You said it used the SSS material. Id that the Fast SSS, or the full blow one?

JeffPatton
05-21-2005, 09:28 PM
Kopar - I used the Fast SSS shader for that scene.

Theta-Dot
05-22-2005, 02:01 AM
Has anybody had problems with Ornatrix crashing max?
I've tried two different versions of the plugin but neither of them work -- It will always crash max within a few renders (I may get one or two renders before it crashes -- it crashes upon attempting to render)
Frustrating because I need a hair solution!

I don't know how I'd fix this. I'm using max 7.0 with service pack 1... and the new demo of ornatrix (1.4)

edit:

hmmm okay... it doesn't seem to be crashing anymore for some unknown reason. I don't see anything I'm doing differently, so hell if I know

This thing's amazing though.
If I don't get anymore crashes then I'm def. buying it.

JeffPatton
05-22-2005, 03:25 PM
On that note, If anyone does run into a particular scene that crashes frequently, be sure to post the scene details (or the scene itself if possible) so they can track the problem down. If it's a reproducible crash like "I do the following steps and Ornatrix crashes everytime"...then definitely post that over at the Ox bug reporting forum.

doca
06-05-2005, 12:23 AM
Hi Jeff, I've got questions about using dynamics when aplying hair to the character. I've made separate "sculp" surface, added 'hair from surface' and Ox dynamics (ODE) and as collision object my character-that's the momet when problems starts, Max crashes (rarely, so that's not big problem) or simulation goes stange, hair behaves, somehow as fire, not to fall down(what is constant). I know that unit setup and scale is important (I use metric and my character is about 1.80m-about 6ft).When I do not aply collision object strands falls quiet well. Also when collision object is standard primitive it works good, but with character(3000 faces)...What is the point? what arethe settings for dynamics to collide well?Global scale? I'm trying V1.4demo, and wanted to by it, but not brave untill I solve that problem. Is it maybe bug in demo version?
P.S. Videos are helpfull a lot. Thanks!

whtnoise
06-05-2005, 03:00 AM
Alright guys, over the last couple of weeks I've been researching all the hairs stuffs out there for max. Having tried the "big 3" hair solutions, I'm leaning more and more towards Ornatrix, specifically for its' mr integration. I'll try not to make this too off-topic, but there were a couple things I found interesting after reading thru the mr docs, and doing a little bit of experimentation.

Couple of quick notes:

OX MR Hair Object

So you want to render your hair with mr? Add the OX MR Hair object to your scene and select your source hair. This enables the use of the mr hair primitive.

Description of settings:

Approximation - (Taken from the MR 3.3 docs) "The approximate specifies the number of segments used to approximate each Bézier hair segment, if the degree is 2 or 3. The default is 1."

* Similar to spline interpolation, the more segments, the smoother the result.

http://www.bloomindustrie.com/cgtalk/mrHairApprx.jpg

Bezier Degree - (Taken from the MR 3.3 docs) "The degree is the degree of the Bézier curves that approximate each hair. Valid values are 1 (linear), 2 (quadric), or 3 (cubic)." (OX defaults to 2)

* Look closely at the individual strands, notice the smoothness of each method where linear seems more accurate even with lower approximation values, and cubic is a bit more "chunky".

http://www.bloomindustrie.com/cgtalk/mrHairBezDeg.jpg

BSP max depth - (Taken from the MR 3.3 docs) "The max depth defines the depth of the hair BSP tree. The default is 20." (OX defaults to 24)

BSP max size - (Taken from the MR 3.3 docs) "The max size defines the leaf size of the hair BSP tree that is created by mental ray to facilitate finding hairs during rendering. The default is 32." (OX defaults to 5)

* Both max size and depth seem to be optimized by default for OX, changing either value to mr's defaults both increase render time and lend very little to overall render quality.

Shading with Illum Hair (base)

It seems like MR's hair primitive is somewhat slower than the atmospheric methods used in OX and other hair renderers, in part to its' being actual geometry. So oversmpling is often necessary to achieve soft, smooth hair renders. In addition to this, MR doesn't support OX's volumetric shading or deep shadowing features, which when using scanline, definatly add to the realism of rendered hair. OK, so all that sucks - but MR can achieve proper anisotropic shading of the hair primitive using the mib_illum_hair shader.

We've all gone thru unlocking shaders from the .mi files, enabling the mib_illum_hair shader is similar, but with an extra step.

1. Open the base.mi file and search for mib_illum_hair. Remove "hidden" from the gui block of the shader declaration. This will enable the shader under MR in max.

2. After opening max you'll notice that Illum_Hair only has a diffuse color attribute. But - mib_illum_hair supports ambience/ambient, diffuse and specular values - you just have to add them to the gui manually.

Your finished mods should look like this:

declare shader
color "mib_illum_hair" (
color "ambience",
color "ambient",
color "diffuse",
color "specular",
scalar "exponent",
integer "mode",
array light "lights"
)
version 1
apply material
gui "gui_mib_illum_hair" {
control "Global" "Global" (
"helpCHM" "MI_Shaders/mr help.chm",
"helpLink" "/",
"addApply" "illum",
"uiName" "Illum Hair (base)",
"category" "Illumination"
)
control "ambience" "color" (
"uiName" "Ambience",
"value" 0.0 0.0 0.0
)
control "ambient" "color" (
"uiName" "Ambient",
"value" 0.0 0.0 0.0
)
control "diffuse" "color" (
"uiName" "Diffuse",
"value" 0.7 0.7 0.7
)
control "specular" "color" (
"uiName" "Specular",
"value" 1 1 1
)
control "mode" "integer" (
)
control "lights" "array light" (
"hidden"
)
}

end declare

3. While you've got base.mi open, unlock the mib_illum_phong, and the mib_illum_ward_deriv shaders, we'll use them later.

Alright, so you've got some MR hair set-up and renderable. Create some lights, turn off shadows, (for now) and throw a standard max material on with fairly high specular value and low glossiness and you should get something like this:

http://www.bloomindustrie.com/cgtalk/standMaxMat.jpg

Now, grab a MR material and put an Illum Hair shader in the surface slot:

http://www.bloomindustrie.com/cgtalk/illumHairBase_01.jpg

OK, so that doesn't look all that great, right? And tweaking any of the shaders params doesn't really make much difference either. What is interesting is how MR deals with the shading/aliasing of the hair tips... (Taken from the MR 3.3 docs) "Hair material shaders should not normally assume that hair consists of geometrical cylinders that can be shaded normally, complete with a terminator and all. Hair is too fine for shading around the circumference; any attempt to place highlights on just one side of the hair may cause aliasing."

So, take an Illum Phong (base) shader and put it in the specular map slot of Illum Hair. Adjust the diffuse and specular colors, and change the exponent (more or less glossiness) value. I'm using 15.0. You should get something like this:

http://www.bloomindustrie.com/cgtalk/illumHairBase_02.jpg

Little better... but the spec's a bit too uniform across the entire surface of the hair object, by increasing the exponent values you can tighten things up some, but here's where Illum Ward Deriv comes in.

From what I can gather, the hair primitive specifies its' own UV coordinates, and Illum Hair makes proper use of the derivitives when shading along the surface of the hair. Because Illum Phong doesn't allow for individual U and V variations in specular illumination, we'll add Illum Ward Deriv to the specular slot of Illum Phong. Because Illum Ward Deriv properly interprets geomentry based U and V derivitives, you're able to control anisotropic highlights:

http://www.bloomindustrie.com/cgtalk/illumHairBase_03.jpg

Now we have our anisotropic highlights, but we're still lacking depth thru the hair...

Again, although MR doesn't support OX's volumetric and deep shadowing features, we can try to add some of this depth back in using other methods. By placing an Ambient/Reflective Occlusion shader in the diffuse slot of your base Illum Hair shader, you should end up with something similar to this:

http://www.bloomindustrie.com/cgtalk/illumHairBaseAmbOcc.jpg

Better... but what about shadows? Using an MR Area spotlight, try both Raytraced and MR shadow maps (if the shadows appear too dark, reduce the shadow density to 0.5). Both have their advatages and disadvantages, most notably speed versus quality. Here's examples of both:

http://www.bloomindustrie.com/cgtalk/hairShadows.jpg

The Difference is barely noticable all except for deep inbetween hair strands, where raytraced shadows produce a much sharper reslult. Also speed-wise, you can usually shave a couple of minutes of your render by using shadow maps, but for hair to object shadows, you'll achieve much better results by using raytraced shadows.

Hope this is of some help to all the OX users out there. Props to Jeff for all his MR research and Marsel and the Ephere dev crew for OX :scream:

Cheers,

Jesse

whtnoise
06-05-2005, 03:34 PM
docaml,

I never had much luck with Dynamics (ODE), try using just the Dynamics modifier, and check your damping and spring settings, I was having similar issues until I set the spring values way up, like around 50000, and the damping down, 500-700. Also, run the real-time preview first, so the hair settles and any hair to geo intersections pop out of your base mesh before running the actual sim.

G'luck,

Jesse

JeffPatton
06-05-2005, 08:59 PM
Nice work Jesse.

Docaml - I'd also recommend using the dynamics in place of the ODE (old dynamics engine) modifier. I'm a bit swamped with projects right now else I'd offer a more help. Marsel might drop by here and offer some tips though (or other users).

doca
06-05-2005, 11:35 PM
thanks, friends.
but just in a moment I saw your replies and unpationatly wanted to use advices something happened with my Ornatrix and here is what it is:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/docaml/d756435a.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/docaml/fd7194b4.jpg
this happend when I tried to add "hair from surface" .since that moment I can't use Ornatrix any more (this error is shown any time I try to use Ornatrix).
I must say that today I was flashing-updating BIOS using remote update and my server crashed and stopped operation so I did it later manualy. I don't know if there is connection btw this two things but my Ornatrix works no more. I reinstaled Ornatrix few times, but massage still appears.
hope that someone of you buddies can help, I'm only 3 days left of demo and want to try dynamics tips you adviced to me. Thanks!

JeffPatton
06-06-2005, 01:38 AM
Sounds like the demo has expired. Maybe the bios flash played a part in that.

doca
06-06-2005, 03:21 AM
Thanks, Jeff. I figured it, that it's about remote flashing...that was not only damage. Anyway, thanks, I'll try it after fixing problems.

valoukh
06-24-2005, 12:03 PM
Hey guys! Good job putting this thread together! I've been looking for anything related to Ornatrix for ages!

I'm looking to make very short, thick fur alike to that of a rabbit or fox. In fact, stefan's fox has the exact type of fur I'm looking for! Does anyone know where I might find a tutorial to help me achieve this? I've played with Ornatrix extensively but I can't seem to get it right!

Congratulations on the video tutorials Mr. Patton, they are very helpful!

-valoukh

SoLiTuDe
06-24-2005, 07:27 PM
well... if you post a sample of what you've got, we can probably suggest setting changes ... the main thing i can think of is just a lot of hair, and prob. slightly thicker radius and whatnot

valoukh
06-25-2005, 08:26 AM
Hi there!

Here's Tim. He's a bit shy. And, understandably, he's a bit grumpy.

I'm having trouble finding the controls I need really. What render counts are you guys using? I'm on 40,000, simply because I don't really know what is advisable. As you can see, the hair is very 'wide apart' and I'm not sure how to change this! Sorry for being such a fool...

Oh! Also, sometimes when I render, the fur is neon green; any idea why this might be?#

Thanks
-valoukh

http://img167.echo.cx/img167/8850/rabbitfur5ng.jpg

valoukh
06-25-2005, 12:37 PM
Ignore this post...I messed it up :)

valoukh
06-25-2005, 12:42 PM
I think I have a few main problems which are stopping me from advancing in my learning!

1) I want the hair to be short, so I add an OxLength modifier. It seems that one can only control the actual length of the hair by applying a length map. The problem here is that I'm not sure what map to add! I'm assuming that it works a lot like Opacity maps in that white=long and black=short. However, if this is true, I feel that adding a dark grey colour would give me short hair. Now, I can't see a way of adding a colour map, so I tried adding a Noise filter, then a Smoke filter. They both made the hair shorter, but offered me no control whatsoever, and this made me think that this simply can't be the way! It's too clumsy.

2) I've been rendering with 50,000 hairs, and I don't really have any idea what amount is considered a lot, and what is considered not much. I have, regardless, always had the same result: thick hair, but which is very, very sparse which large 'bald patches'.

3) I'm assuming the neon green colour is for reference so ignore my original statement!

4) I'm basically having trouble working out how to achieve an 'evenly spread' coat of fur. I don't really mind if it takes long to render, but merely increasing the Render Count doesn't seem to do anything anyway!

Here's a quick example to clarify what I mean. The hair to the left side of the picture looks dense because it is being viewed side-on, but in reality (central part of the image) it is very sparse:

http://img84.echo.cx/img84/3049/baldy8ex.jpg

I feel that I am missing something very obvious here, and I'd much appreciate any help you guys can give me on this!

Thanks again,
valoukh

valoukh
06-26-2005, 05:05 PM
Just bumping the thread as I am entering a state of desperation over this! :)

JeffPatton
06-26-2005, 06:17 PM
Be sure to check the Ox help file in regards to the length settings. I made a real quick video for you here:
(video removed)
There are several ways to control the length, so I'm thinking you're just using the wrong mapping coordinates on your length control maps.

As far as the density goes, I'm going to guess it's a scale issue. Check this thread for more details on that:
http://www.ibmr.net/Ornatrix/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1186&highlight=scale

EDIT: Or it might just be that your hair radius settings are waaaay too small. Thicker hair strands will require less hairs to cover the mesh.

What version of Ornatrix are you running? I ask because the render you posted reminds me of the old beta version of Ornatrix.

valoukh
06-26-2005, 07:09 PM
Hi!

Thanks very much for your reply. I've downloaded the video so I'll check it out along with the link when I have a minute!

I'm using Ornatrix v1.3.

Just to update the situation: I've discovered more settings on the "Environment" area (hair Radius etc) which I didn't even see before, so I'll have a look at them when I get chance. Also, I've noticed you can change the 'guide length' of the hair, and this sounds more like the kinda thing I'm looking for. Am I right in thinking that Length mods/maps are if you desire the hair to be different lengths in different places? I'm trying to achieve short hair all over, which is why this seems to be a better option!

Thank you very much for making the video, it's very kind of you!
-valoukh

SoLiTuDe
06-26-2005, 10:44 PM
yes... the length maps n such are for making different lenght hair based on grayscale values. Jeff: That was a viewport capture from what I could tell (the word perspective and the axis thingy is a dead giveaway) :eek: Good thing u finally found those radius settings, those are prob what you're lookin' for.

valoukh
06-27-2005, 09:49 AM
Yep! I'm guessing it's going to be a case of playing around with the settings. My main problem which remains is that I don't really know how many hairs to have. For a rabbit the fur is going to need to be quite fine which I suppose means I'll need more. How many would you say stefan's fox has? I did a few tests; e.g. I tried a Radius of 1.0, Guide Length of 2.0, and 50,000 hairs. It look about 3 minutes to render and the result was a pixelated, neon green mess. This is going to take a while :).

I once tried 500,000 hairs and my computer nearly physically exploded. I'll keep trying!

-valoukh

P.S. I can't seem to notice a pattern with the hair's texture; does the hair automatically take on the colour of the "skin"? I noticed I can apply a texture to the skin and hair objects seperately but I wondered what the default is.

Thanks!

SoLiTuDe
06-27-2005, 08:51 PM
http://www.jeffpatton.net/ornatrix/Ox-materials.wmv for materials info stuff

As for Stefans fox... i don't have a clue, try sending him a private message about how many hairs he used, and some settings. Otherwise, why don't u post the file online so we could have a look see what we can come up with... :)

valoukh
06-27-2005, 10:09 PM
The testing I need to do can actually be done on a primitive sphere. When I get time it'll be a case of trying different settings and rendering it off (try, render, try, render, etc), until I find the fur I'm looking for.

If you manage to make a fine fur of sorts, I'll be happy to discuss the technique with you! :)

I probably won't have time until the weekend but when it comes I'll have a good bash at the settings and see what I can come up with!

Thanks,
-valoukh

P.S. My renders have been a bit 'pixelated', i.e. bad quality, and I read somewhere that someone else had this problem and that the solution was to increase the passes on the hair or something like that, but I can't remember exactly what they said! Any ideas? Thanks again.

valoukh
06-27-2005, 10:34 PM
Ooh! I think I might be getting somewhere with this! I've made a nice fine fur as a test, and it looks good; now I just need to decide how I want to brush it - i.e. whether to have it short and standing on-end, or a bit longer and brushed down. I'm trying to think what rabbits have... :)

I've noticed two things:

1) The OxGravity modifer doesn't actually apply gravity, it just seems to make the hair drop in the opposite direction to the face's normals! This is useless...I'll have to wait until I find a better way of making it fall.

2) When I apply any material to the hair, it comes out neon green on the render and I can't work out why :(. Anyone know much about texturing the hair?

Thanks,
-valoukh

valoukh
06-28-2005, 06:54 PM
I give up. :(

I thought I had it, but I didn't.

I managed to get the hair to the length I wanted it and I applied a material to it and everything was fine. However, it was standing on end, so I added an OxGravity modifier. This made the hair go through the mesh, so I added the mesh itself under external object interaction. This worked to an extent, but also made the render take about three minutes longer. After this, my main concern was that the hair wasn't covering the whole of the mesh; there were loads of bald patches. I played around with a few settings, then did a few clone renders changing the render count (of hairs) each time. I tried it, for example, on 10,000, then on 80,000, and there was a very noticeable difference. Of course, my computer nearly died rendering the latter. All seemed to be going well when my computer had the audacity to show me the following render for which I have no explanation:

http://img68.echo.cx/img68/5407/mess7ho.jpg

I am so bad at using Ornatrix that it's hurting me.

I am not a happy bunny :(

-valoukh

SoLiTuDe
07-03-2005, 04:40 PM
what kind of shadows are you using??? Make sure u use ox shadows... and i think you have to add the light to the env??? (can't open max right now as i'm running out the door)... i'll post some stuff (examples and settings) later tonight possibly

DeKo-LT
07-05-2005, 07:26 AM
How i can create, animation of Hair Cutting with Ornatrix? (like in HairFX) ;)

DeKo-LT
07-05-2005, 08:10 AM
How i can create, animation of Hair Cutting with Ornatrix? (like in HairFX) ;)

Kanga
07-10-2005, 01:06 PM
Hello Jeff Patton.

Tried out the demo and gotta say thats one super plugin you got there.
I have a job interview Tuesday and the employer is interested in Hair and cloth dynamics. I was asked if I was converse with these specialities and I answerd no,..... but I am sure I could be. HA big mouth. I though I would make a few samples and put them on my site before the interview to surprise them,... ok.

I don't know with which version of ornatrix you made the video tutes (which are great BTW) for but it seems many buttons have changed and as I am no super dynamics guru I was wondering if there were any other rescources specifically in this area.

A specific hitch is that I am trying to reproduce your wind dynamics demonstration. There is no preset button in the ox dynamics preferances (you set this to long heavy hair). There is no preset button under the Simulation (computer simulation) button that you click before the windforce becomes directional. My sim lets the hair fall or blow down but I cant get this directional. Range is specified on my windforce gizmo.

Would be nice to get the job and push Ornatrix in that company.

Thanx in advance
Chris.

JeffPatton
07-10-2005, 01:49 PM
Chris,

1) I had nothing to do with the actual development/programming of Ornatrix. Marsel Khadiyev made this plugin.

2) At the time I made the intro tutorials I was using Ornatrix Ver. 1.3. Ornatrix is at Ver 1.4 now and you can download the demo here:
http://www.ephere.com/ornatrix/index.php?mnu=5&dest=demo

3) As far as other resources go, Marsel has a few tutorials here:
http://www.ephere.com/ornatrix/index.php?mnu=3&dest=tutorials

Tyler Reed also made an Ornatrix review/tutorial at 3dluvr.com here:
http://www.3dluvr.com/content/article/151

Other than that, the documentation that comes with Ornatrix is really good for explaining the functions/settings.

Good luck on your interview!

Kanga
07-10-2005, 02:16 PM
Chris,

1) I had nothing to do with the actual development/programming of Ornatrix. Marsel Khadiyev made this plugin.



Ah my mistake! Thanx for the speedy reaction!

I edited my previous post as I am having trouble with wind direction. I think this stems from my lack of dynamics knowledge in max altogether, so I am busy following baby flag tutes right at this moment:).

I got the plug working pretty well as most things are staight forward and have see all the tutes you mentioned. The quality of the generated hair is outrageously high and the GUI for editing guides is superb, how to get collisions, friction and gravity dynamics to function is pretty sketchy though.

Thanx again for your info,.... now back to the grindstone (rather be having a beer with a pretty girl):thumbsup:

Greetings Chris

JeffPatton
07-10-2005, 02:35 PM
Collisions, friction and gravity are controlled/located in the dynamics modifier. Just add the Ox Dynamics modifier to you modifier stack. Just make sure the dynamics modifier is below the "Ox Hair from guides" modifier in your stack. You don't want to calculate dynamics on the actual hair, but the hair guides instead.

Gravity is built into the dynamics modifier (no need to add a max gravity space warp). It's located in the external forces rollout. It has a default setting of 9.41. You can increase or decrease that setting if more or less gravity is needed.

Collisions & the resulting friction settings are located in the collision surfaces rollout of the Ox dynamics modifier. Just add the objects you want the hair to interact with by clicking the add Object button and selecting the objects. Then adjust the surface friction & surface bounce parameters to taste.

:thumbsup:

JeffPatton
07-10-2005, 02:47 PM
How i can create, animation of Hair Cutting with Ornatrix? (like in HairFX) ;)

I think you could probably animate a black and white mask and use it in a length modifier. That would just change the length though. If you want to see the ends of the hair actually fall away....I'm not entirely sure how to accomplish that task. Maybe a particle system that emits hairs (lines) as it cuts, in conjuction with the animated length map would work?

Maybe other Ornatrix users can provide a better solution than that.

Kanga
07-10-2005, 03:15 PM
Thanx Jeff.

Yeah I got the bit about stack order. Judging by your reply I think I just missed pushing a few buttons and am looking too deeply. Will leap back in armed with your info!

Thanx
Aint this the darndest plugin though,..... great!
Greetings Chris

Kanga
07-13-2005, 03:41 PM
Conserning Ox dynaics I have been able to get collision detection with primative spheres but a converted primative to an editable poly doesnt seem to work. Editable poly meshes don't seem to work in general. I read in the support files that no object with a mass of 0 can be considered as collidable. I guess then every mesh that is not a spherical primative must be assigned a mass. To do this it seems a simulation must be set up and masses assigned to objects seperately although info from Jeff seems to indicate otherwise.

If anyone has advice on this I would be gratefull to hear it.
Thanx in advance.

IkerCLoN
07-16-2005, 12:30 PM
Hi all, and thanks to share that amazing stuff about Ornatrix. Well, I was testing the demo version, and I had no problems at all... till the moment I tried to convert the hair strands to a mesh via the 'OxMesh from Strands'. Here you can see the 'before' and 'after'. I've played with some settings, but nothing appears to change. Also I do not remember to have found anything about this modifier.

Any help? Thanks!

http://www.3dpoder.com/ikerclon/pelo.jpg


http://www.3dpoder.com/ikerclon/pelogeom.jpg

eggsrgood
07-21-2005, 12:00 AM
Hey Jeff and all,

I have to say Ornatrix gives the most natural render for hair that I have seen. I've been trying to use the Ox hair draw effect as to composite the hair in Combustion using the .RPF format. The reason being that I want to get some motion blur to the hair. The problem is that when I try to render out different passes they come up fine. As in the Z-depth and Velocity passes. But when I try to save the z-depth and or any other pass other than the RGBA channel, the file saves only the RGBA channel. As in, it will go to save the z-depth but when looking at the .tiff or .targa file it will be the RGBA pass only.

Just wondering whether this function works properly. I'm wanting to save out each pass and then use the .RPF builder in Combustion to get the control. Any help would be great. Cheers

Supermouse
07-25-2005, 11:40 AM
can some body know how to make a braid by ornatrix??i can't understand that renference clearly.thanks

stefan
07-25-2005, 12:54 PM
To eggsrgood: Why not use RPF format for saving? If U woud like to use tga or tiff U woud need some efect to translate Z or velocity to RGBA affter rendering each frame. But I am maybe wrong.
To IkerCLoN: If U woud like to make Mesh hairs looks more like thos Efects hairs put Ox render settings into stack. And try material with Anisotropic highlights.

Theta-Dot
07-27-2005, 06:18 PM
Here is where I ended up in my attempt at cat-fur:

http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/%7Eaustincb/generated/catfur3.jpg

SoLiTuDe
08-05-2005, 08:55 PM
is it tru that ornatrix and hairfx are teaming up!? That'll be freakin' amazing... though I really don't know what ornatrix will benefit from it, seeing as it has hairfx beat in every way. http://www.maxplugins.de/max7.php It'll be interesting for sure!

Dyonisos123
08-14-2005, 02:42 PM
hi guys

i just got in here and there are some good advices to take advantage from.
I'm working on a new project right now where i have to tweak the hair as photorealistic as i can, but i still can't set up the mental ray material to get it nice looking.

i tryed mib_illum_hair with the mib_illum_phong, and the mib_illum_ward_deriv shaders, as discribed earlier but i still can't get it to work and it doesn't look like real life.

So are there any suggestions you could give?

thx

Michael

JeffPatton
08-14-2005, 06:04 PM
So are there any suggestions you could give?
Post a render because it's hard to say "adjust parameter X,Y, or Z" when we don't know what it looks like now.

Dyonisos123
08-15-2005, 01:30 PM
hi again...

so here are some facts about my scene

- renderer is mental ray
- i setup the hair like jeff said in his short video tutorial for rendering ox hair with mr
- i used 3 mr area spots from different angles with standard settings and raytrace shadows
- antialiasing settings where 16 to 64
- the rest is default


here is the material setup for the hair like i described earlier:

http://home.arcor.de/jennykrick/soerens_dateien/oxhairsettings.jpg


and here the bad rendering with the settings above:

http://home.arcor.de/jennykrick/soerens_dateien/hair.jpg




any advices?

Dyonisos123
08-19-2005, 01:07 PM
it doesnt workon the ornatrix site

old link --> http://www.kathartik.ca/oxr_tut/OxR1_Hair.zip

is it downloadable somwhere else?

thx

hindus
08-22-2005, 09:47 AM
Hi - create plane, add all the modifiers, place the vraymtl shader and get not black carpet but black - why ?

heres the screen:

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/8533/xxx12wk.jpg

Did anyone can explain it ? what should I do ?
Hope u will help - looking for some info but cant make it :/

Mork74
09-01-2005, 11:03 AM
Hi Jeff

i'm using Ornatrix plugin to make a grass field, and i'd like to do a bit of variation between plants /flowers etc....could you explain the process of assigning channels (their meaning and usage) and groups? i will use propagation modifier to apply branches etc then...

thank you v.m.

Thael
09-08-2005, 12:35 AM
thanks for the tutes Jeff. much appreciated, though i can't seem to play the dynamics vid. what codec does it use, and where can i get it?

Whtnoise, thanks for the tips and stuff... they were very helpful indeed... gonna save me having to composite too much on my current project (the joys of creating a demo reel), though i can't seem to get the specularity right. i suppose it'll come right with a bit of tweeking and stuff.

kreuz
09-28-2005, 09:18 AM
another prooblem!!

this hair looks angled , how to let the hair looks more smooth?

http://myweb.hinet.net/home2/hasudrone/model9.jpg

kreuz
09-28-2005, 09:20 AM
and , still a problem!

why i can't render Ornatrix's shader with MR? how to unlock it??

kreuz
09-28-2005, 01:25 PM
anyone could help me QQ? thx

gman
09-28-2005, 11:49 PM
I would have contacted ornatrix directly but there is no contact info on the site.

Not sure if this a problem for anyone else. While trialing ornatrix every minute or so a window appears asking me to buy it, its really annoying. Could this be sorted out?

Thanks

canwood58
10-18-2005, 10:35 AM
Need some help trying to add fur to a deer and would just like to know how you lot go about it as my fur isnt looking too great im after something like theta-dot's cat fur.

cheers

canwood

stefan
10-18-2005, 01:01 PM
To kreuz use OxStrandsDetail modifier.

mahmoudcg
01-19-2006, 02:43 PM
hi all
im havin hard times trying to make use of ornatrix channels or groups (not sure they are the same thing actually)

im makin a feather with tiny hairs on each strand using the propagation mod
the doc says it works on groups
i only can add a group in the edit guides but actually cant tell ox to use those strands under that group and later tell the propagation to use the group

need help plz
anybody knows the procedure

Eric2897
01-21-2006, 10:22 PM
I just downloaded ornatrix and it is really nice. I was wondering if anyone was having a problem with the dynamics not working correctly? in the view port they work fine but when I try to render them they dont show up, also is their a particular order that the dynamics have to be placed in the stack.


Thanks

ScrmnTA
02-20-2006, 01:53 PM
Hi all. I am in need of some pointers.
I'm pretty new to ornatrix, but have gone through jeff's tutorials and the few on the ornatrix's site. I've downloaded the free beta v2 from the site.
As opposed to modeling the hair like i've done in the past, obviously I want to give this plug-in a go-around.

here is the kind of look I'm wanting to achieve:
http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/%7Eaoirokou/images/mai/mai121.jpg
here is a simplier example:
http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/%7Eaoirokou/images/risa/risa155.jpg

The site these came from:
http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/%7Eaoirokou/gallery1.htm

Now for my questions:
1) It seems to me there are a couple of different layers to the hair. Such as thicker more anime like strands on top with thinner more life-like strands under it. If this is so how do I go about creating those different layers?
2) I've read you should break up your scalp in terms of folds. Do I have to do this for every different direction the hair will be going? such as the /mai121.jpg the back of her head is going every which way.

Those are really the only questions I can come up with right now. Any help would be greatly appreciated
I would also appreciate any workflow tips or possible suggestions on how to achieve this look.

Thanks in advance!

purvapar
02-25-2006, 03:55 AM
Hi ppl,

Ive been trying and trying to get my hair right in ornatirx for 2 3dys now! ive to show the client a hair preview by sunday :( and although the style looks right in viewport and ive given 10,000 hair, the char still looks really bald. cud anyone please tell me wht im doing wrong? HELP!

ps. im using max 8 with ornatirx 1.4

Kanga
02-25-2006, 05:58 AM
Have you tried playing with the render settings in the render dialoge. As I remeber , where you add the effect you can change the thickness of the strands,.... oh and there are lots of variables to play with,... everywhere.

purvapar
02-25-2006, 06:25 PM
Hi im posting this frm home so cannot show u guys wht my latest render loks like.. i tired a wierd method.. used a sphere.. applied all modifiers till i got desired look and thn simple copied modifier stack on ox edit guide modifer..
is looking naturaller and more fuller even with 8000 hair but wht my prob is tht hair still doesnt clump like natural hair.. it forms small clumps but not large natural stuff.. see this the kind of hair look im trying to achieve.. atleast clumps and material like tht.. cud u guys plzz help me .. plus hair is unnaturally straight at top even though frizz is applied.. and sum hair are too frizzy at bottom which occrs as soon as i apply gravity modifier.. any suggestions?

p.s.plzz ignore my typing flukes i type too fast for my own good :(

sum ref images for kinda material and look im tryin to achieve :
http://images.hollywood.com/images/large/l_1740899.jpg
http://www.funmunch.com/celebrities/actresses/lindsay_lohan/enlarge/lindsay_lohan_7.jpg
http://galeon.hispavista.com/lindsayscorner/img/lindsay-lohan-23.jpg

http://images.hollywood.com/images/4_1750667.jpg
http://hollywood.weblog.com.pt/arquivo/lindsaylohan4.JPG < these are nearest to hairstyle.. others are main texture references

p.s.s Thns Man Kanga for helping me out even on a thread as old as this one.. id almost thought it pointless to post but had to try my luck :)

ty guys in advance

purvapar
03-04-2006, 08:36 AM
My 3d gal..

am trying out ornatrix demo version...

plz let me know ur crits..

http://rapidshare.de/files/14648735/one.jpg.html (http://rapidshare.de/files/14648735/one.jpg.html)

MadnesS
06-29-2006, 12:04 PM
Hey Guys...

I'm getting this erros on MentalRay 3.4.4.9 + Ornatrix 1.4 on Max 8 service pack 1

MSG 0.0 error: Custom translation interface for mtl/tex ' ( Ox Geo Hair (mentalRay) )': Shader declaration "ox_geo_hair" not found.
MSG 0.0 error: Custom translation of instance 'Object01': failed to translate the geometry shader.

On Scanline render works fine...

Someone can help me?

hotknife
07-10-2006, 10:17 AM
Does the Ornatrix Demo support Mental Ray as a Renderer ?

watto
07-19-2006, 10:23 PM
hi i just downloaded the ornatrix demo and the only thing i have to say is wow very powerfull i just encouterd a problem.
im animatin the characters mouth with morph targets and when i go to animate the morphs it skrews ell my combing and i have another question how can i go about telling ornatrix the parts of the mouth that i dont want hair on .
thanx

Chrysley
08-06-2006, 04:10 PM
I don't know if you guys know this already but I thought it might be helpful. Increasing the Roughness value in the Expensive shader increases the amount of light that bounces from hair strand to hair strand. I use ".8" instead of ".17" This seems to give the effect of area lights on your hair. You also need to decrease the Specular multiplier and Intensity multiplier setting since it gives a very big and bright specularity to hair. Which is useless.

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/7914/hairsettingswq9.jpg

This technique seems to work best for blonde hair. For brown, I think Roughness value should be lowered. Has anyone tried using shellac material to layer another hair shader for a good specularity on top? I'm not sure that works.

Also, you need about three or more lights to give good shadows. 512 shadow map size should be fine for all lights.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5027/topshothm3.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=topshothm3.jpg)

Here are renders using this technique. rendertime: 44 seconds

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/846/tidusr2pc1.jpg
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/9666/tidusrightde5.jpg
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/3318/tidusgjl4.jpg

Chrysley
08-07-2006, 09:03 AM
Update: I tested the shellac shader to layer another expensive hair shader on top to create highlights. It gave the hair more dimensional and realistic look.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/3628/tidusnewspechb2.jpg
http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/1005/tidusnewspec2gm4.jpg

TTYO
09-19-2006, 01:57 PM
Hey I was go to make fur in my next animated short but i found a problem
http://www.freewebtown.com/pic888/Help!.JPG

http://www.freewebtown.com/pic888/Help!_2.JPG

And this is just the side view in the front views the result is worser!

peekoot
10-01-2006, 12:15 AM
i have had this problem...

in my case using point cache modifier helped.. but it was really.. hairy.. :)

i didn't find complete solution for it though (i wrote to marsel couple of times... but i couldn't find a way to reproduce the problem)

Chysley.. that shader looks amazing! (especially considering rendering time) thanks for posting!

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