Best for Maya: Linux vs. Windows?

[graphiouz]

i dont know, and im also interessted in what the linux guys has to say. (not just for maya)

and you should´nt be frighted of Win2000/Xp anymore, its Ok!
its mature and stable, and it runs fast!
Plugins? i think you have access to more plugins on windows,

.

[MCronin]

With Maya, thankfully there isn't need really for tons of plugins. Most people just write scripts. However, there are a lot of free plugins out there, and some commercial ones, and it seems like 90 percent of them are for Windows. Some developers are nice and will distribute the source so you can recompile them for your platform, but many of the Windows guys do stupid things like using MFC, making it impossible to simply recompile for Linux. So, if you want to use plugins, Windows is probably the better way to go. Most of the major first and third party plugins, Mental Ray and what not, should be available for Linux if not now, eventually.

When you buy Maya, you are either going to get the Windows or Linux version (they don't come on the same CD) and no, there is no cross platform license, unless you set up a license server where machines on your network can check licenses out. You may want to talk to A|W or a reseller. They may be willing to give you a time trial so you can evaluate which way you want to go.

There's no distinct advantage to using Maya on Linux, unless you happen to just really prefer Linux as an OS and you like having the ability to program and script in the OS very easily. Maya looks and acts the same on both Windows and Linux. Windows 2000 is very stable and Maya is very stable. Because you can strip down your Linux install you can have more free system resources in using Maya in Linux, but other than that, it's not really anymore stable or faster than Maya on Windows in my experience.

There are a lot of disadvantages to running Maya on Linux though. Hardware being number one. ATI is not an option currently for video, so if you want to use a Radeon 9700 or a Fire GL X1 or something, stick with Windows. If you want to use Linux, Nvidia is your best bet, unless you buy a workstation built for Linux. Wacom doesn't provide tablet drivers for Linux, they've left it to some guy to write. Wacom supports this guy who is working on the driver, and he has written a nice working driver, but it's not as robust as the Windows driver and it's a pain to setup. As far as software is concerned, you are very limited there as well. There isn't much in the way of software for artists on Linux, but thankfully a lot of what is there is free. There is no Photoshop, but the Gimp is free. If you don't like the Gimp, Corel Photodraw is decent and free, but it's a little slow. For video editing your choices are slim also. The best thing going right now is Cinerella (very ugly, but free) and you have a limited choice of codecs.

So, there's no real advantage for most users in using Linux, but if you don't have outlandish hardware, and you don't need 100 different pieces of software and plugins, there's no disadvantage either.

[Crode]

the linux version is no doubt faster due to the low overhead of the system resources. But if your like me, I dont have the time to figure out how to set up a linux OS and possibly troublshoot problems. Im a dos and windows guy since i started as a pc tech and know it very well so it saves me time knowing what to do when something goes wrong. saves more time for animation ;)

[wedge]

also, if you want to work simultaneously in Photoshop for texture updating purposes, you can't do that in Linux, since photoshop isn't out for it. linux-fanboys have always told me "just use the gimp, its just as good as PS", but they're dead wrong. Photoshop is just about the greatest program ever, and that alone is worth running Maya on windows.

[Ckerr812]

I have to disagree with you there, Gimp is as good PhotoShop, it just takes a little getting use too.

As for Maya on Linux, I dunno, I have used in on Unix and it's a dream to work in, it never ever crashes....I mean ever... it was so stable you could forget to save scenes days at a time (not that I recomend this) ;)

So yea..it wasn;t as fast as windows, but I guess it;s like asking do you want the Fast sports car, or the reliable Family car :)

[DesignDawg]

I, too used Maya on Unix for a while (On Irix, for about 3 years, running on everything from an Indy to O2 R12Ks), and my experience in all that time was that it was FAR FAR less stable than on Windows. --Especially v.4. v.4 is practically bulletproff on Windows, if you ask me, but on Irix....NIGHTMARE.

Again, though, I say ymmv, because the irix boxes were all network nodes, and it was in a lab setting, etc...

I just remember the horror of my students' projects getting trashed and corrupted every now an again for no reason, constantly having to remote logon and kill all Maya's processes because it completely hard-locked the O2s... It was a mess, and a nightmare.

But Irix is not linux. And An O2 is not a PC. I have no experience directly with Maya on Linux, but I know Weta uses them pretty extensively (almost exclusively, I think). I second the "No photoshop on Linux" motion, and I STRONGLY second the "GIMP has nothing on Photoshop" thought. Good Lord. GIMP sucks. (NO offense to any GIMP programmers out there. I mean comparatively.)

Ricky

[MCronin]

I really don't like Photoshop all that much. Just my opinion, but I think Photoshop is overrated and I can't understand how Adobe gets away with charging 600 dollars for it. Gimp is good, PSP is good, Film FX is great, Painter is great, and if you are using Maya, you can do quite a bit with 2D Paint FX. There's a ton of great 2D paint packages out there, and alot of them have better features than PS.

[ACFred]

While I don't use Maya on Linux, I have installed Suse Linux on both of my computers and both have ATI graphics cards in them, so it's not true that ATI doesn't have Linux drivers.
On my game machine, I have a Radeon VIVO 64 and it installed with no problems, likewise with my FireGL2 machine (my Maya machine). Both run at 1600x1200 32-bit color with no problems.

I had to put my FireGL2 back into my work computer because the 3D Labs card I have (anyone wanna buy it for cheap?), the Wildcat II 5000 didn't support Linux at all.
I just took a quick look at the Fire GLX1 on ATIs site and they do support Linux with it and every other set of drivers I looked at on their site.

And as far as alternative graphics programs for Linux, I'm quite partial to Corel Photopaint v9 (I think it's v9). Corel is giving Photopaint for Linux away for free.
I was a Corel user for a long time until I could get Photoshop for $40 through their employee discount. Now economics forces me to use Photoshop, but I am a convert on Windows. I really like the way Photoshop works and it's integration and similarity to most of Adobe's other software.

I've heard good things about GIMP but haven't had time to deal with another learning curve. Photoshop and Photopaint are the painting tools of choice for me on Windows and Linux, respectively.


That's it.

Alec

[redfuzz]

Our studio was an SGI unix Maya house for years...maya was fine on octanes, more stable than windows..but slow as hell these days. We bought Linux boxes for the renderfarm. Now we are all on Windows2000. We are just now dancing around for glee at converting the last Linux render boxes to Windoze. Linux is flawed. We experienced endless bugs in the renderer on Linux, it would render fine on our PC workstations but would **** up on the linux farm. Even if it didn't **** up it would look different than on NT. Many confirmed bugs with Linux; wrap deformers, particles!! fur, the list goes on. Our tests showed windows2000 to be 15% faster at rendering than linux, though I hear that if you know what your are doing you can optomize linux to out perform NT..but we couldn't, and still the bugs are horrible. And when we got 4.0 on PC the linux render version was months late. Useless...we are happy windoze users now...NT is the primary development platform for MAYA at Alias|Wavefront. Linux was head aches.. windows is stability head ache...
g

[MCronin]

Originally posted by ACFred
While I don't use Maya on Linux, I have installed Suse Linux on both of my computers and both have ATI graphics cards in them, so it's not true that ATI doesn't have Linux drivers.

http://mirror.ati.com/support/products/pc/radeon9700/radeon9700prodrivers.html

Under Linux it says the driver is not supplied by ATI. If you read further by following the links, you will see that it seems ATI provides minimal 2D functionality under Linux and leaves it to the community to provide hardware acceleration. Until ATI pulls their Linux driver development in house and provides their own stable working drivers, I don't think ATI is an option. The reviews I've read for the 9700 claim that ATI is doing this for their newer products, but who knows when and how good the drivers will be.

The buggyness of Maya under Linux; there were problems with 4.0, (actually, I never ran into the myriad of problems redfuzz had, just a few samll problems) but that was the first Linux version that had feature parity with Windows and Irix. Maya 1.0 for NT suffered alot of the same problems versus the Irix version. I've been using 4.5 on Linux so far it's been great, and not any more or less stable, buggy, fast or quirky than Windows.

[ryguy]

I disagree too. Gimp is very much like Photoshop, the interface is a bit different but you can get the same results. Also, Gimp has a a bunch of cool filters that photoshop doesn't have.

I tend to use Gimp for textures more than I do photoshop now... but if I need text, I'll jump right into PS for that.

I've used Maya for Windows, Irix, and Linux... there isn't really a different except when rending via a command prompt or shell. Maya has the ability to render without Maya itself being opened. This allows the renderer to have full advantage of your CPU power. The commands are a slight different but follow the same command scheme.

I wouldn't too much about plugins if you're a Linux user, there is always a way to create a create to achieve a certain effect or find a script to download.

~Ryan

Originally posted by wgeddes
since photoshop isn't out for it. linux-fanboys have always told me "just use the gimp, its just as good as PS", but they're dead wrong. Photoshop is just about the greatest program ever, and that alone is worth running Maya on windows.

[ambient-whisper]

the whole layer manager/navigator/ action scripts/ etc seem to have a much better setup in PS than in gimp. as well as the brush editor. mmm. gimp is alright but to say its the same as PS is just wrong. they differ in their own ways.
its like corel draw vs photoshop

[Ckerr812]

Originally posted by ambient-whisper
the whole layer manager/navigator/ action scripts/ etc seem to have a much better setup in PS than in gimp. as well as the brush editor. mmm. gimp is alright but to say its the same as PS is just wrong. they differ in their own ways.
its like corel draw vs photoshop

umm..Corel Draw is a vector art program, do you mean Corel Photo Paint?

Anyways, who cares, they all have the same tools and do the same things. Any talented artist could do great work using PhotoShop, Gimp, Photo Paint or a hetch a sketch..... it's all personal preference...just like beer or Martinis, in the end it's all the same, just some get you there faster then others :beer:

[Doogie]

What are you talking about?? they got photoshop for irix. Unfortunately its only version 3. It has layers and most of the important features, but id like to take a look at Gimp.

I dont think ive seen much work from it, but ive heard a lot of polar (good or bad) feedback. Guess ill have to take the time and try it myself.

[visualboo]

gimp is alright but to say its the same as PS is just wrong.
agreed 110%

[TRi-14]

Windows XP Pro. has been perfectly stable for me :) avent tried it on linux, but there are absolutely no issues with Maya and Windows XP for me :):bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[fillfree77]

(I am comming from Unix background and I would like to say that it is very wrong to say Linux vsWindows for the reason that they were made for the different tasks and beside all of that :
Windows has XP Home,XP,2000,Me,98,95, etc...
Linux has RedHat, Suse, Corel, Mandrake, etc..

And yes all of the distro for linux are not same at all. If you hunt stability and not the bleeding edge go for SuSe or Debian, they are good and know what they are doing.

As far as windows go it is really hard to say if it is bad or good. Computer in the hands of Monkeys will be worse then a stone to get them some food. I know some people would not like that expression, but I do want to say that all of us are "monkeys" in different situations and times.

So as far as it goes I would go for Linux if it was a big corpo who knows what they are doing. Dreamworks Inc. are running linux....

[Gentle Fury]

OK, first off, someone here said you will have to decide cuz they dont come on the same cd.......etc

Well thats partially right. When you get maya, there are like 5 cd's i think.....i dont remember its been a while since we first opened the box. One of them contains the Linux ver and another the Windows ver......no mac though, i was surprised ;)

There are many reasons to go both ways............

Linux is in fact a LOT more stable while working.......but as someone had pointed out, has some issues while rendering. One of the really cool things is that when it crashes on linux you merely close a shell......and it doesnt slow and kill the entire machine. Remote rendering is also easier and faster on linux (though you have to wade your way thru annoying linux lingo).

These all said it sounds like linux is a pretty cool choice.

Now comes the fun........ever tried setting up and maintaining a linux network?????? NOT AN EASY TASK!!!! I found myself spending hours and hours and hours learning how to set things up with good results and yet noticing i was not nearly done........and programs that you have to compile take for freakin ever!!!!! I love linux, it is very stable and very smooth, it handle resources wonderfully...........but if you just want to get to work and you are an artist AVOID IT LIKE THE PLAGUE!!!!!! You will be pulling your hair out and re-installing windows in no time!

The other major downfall is the library of adobe products!

We use Photoshop, Premiere, and After FX religiously here..........and to not be able to use them on the same machine as maya is just a shame! SOOOOOO for these reasons i vote windows...............BUT there is a possible hope in the air my friends!!! Lindows ( www.lindows.com) !! The ease and compatibility of windows and the stability and wonderful features of linux......god i hope this project takes off!!!!!!

Happy Rendering!!!

[Modulok]

"Maya Shipment includes CDs for all products and operating system. You must select the appropriate Cds for your purchase and operating system."

-A|W Installation guide for Maya 4.5 Unlimited-


Funny though, I only got two CDs, one of Maya for Win2k and WinXP pro and one with the doccumentation....but no CD for Irix, Linux, Unix...I think I'll have a word with my dealer tomorrow :shame:

-Modulok-

[stoopiddonky]

If you would like to spend a month learning the basics, then I suggest linux (Red Hat more specifically).

+Its free. Maya costs hella much, why spend even more on the OS?

+More stable. I use both windows (xp) and linux daily, and linux is by far much more kind :).

+Maya workspace is much faster. I only have 256 ram, and while using paintfx in windows, things crawl...but in linux, i can draw all the grass and flowers i want...yippie!

-Sorta hard to learn basics.

-Rendering is slightly slower.


The cross-software problems are insagnifigant in my opinion. If you HAVE to use premiere/PS on the same machine as your maya'ing on, then use VMware. I use vmware with adobe premiere with great success. Yes, its slightly slower.

And finnaly. Yes photoshop is better than gimp. However, unless your a mad genious that wants to learn every little trick in the book, than gimp works just as well for professional work, and is FREE. (FilmGimp was used in the making of scooby doo, little nicky, etc...)

[ju3d]

No Man.. dont do it!!!!!!!


If you are in USA you can buy a good mac!!Dont buy a PC never!!!

I used Cinema in mac too and change for PC with Maya.
Man believe in me!! Windows 2000 is a most shit in this world!!!!
And Maya in a PowerMac dual 1G is amazing!!!!!And MacOS dont have problems....



Using PC and remorseful!!!!

[mustique]

I would never suggest a Mac user to switch to Linux. Not yet. Better switch to your new OSX, I don't think you could handle Linux. The ones speaking here in favor of Linux are mostly people knowing a bit about computers. Whereas mac users only know about their artwork. Which is the way it should be. So if you wanna keep that attitude Switch to W2K.

You'll have all the plugins, and you don't have to think if the hardware you gonna buy is supported. I do run W2K with Maya, and its very very stable and fast.:wip:

[stoopiddonky]

mustique: Have you ever run linux??? I dont mean for a week, i mean for at least 2 months. If you had, then you would never think that win2k is very stable. Its stable, and MUCH better than the 9x's, but no where close to deserving a "very", nevertheless two "very"'s!!!


If you have the money, get a mac, otherwise, get/build a PC running *nix.

[Apollux]

As far as Maya goes, I could not tell.. I have never used it. But about the Linux/Windows maybe i can enlight you a little :)

I`ve been a MicroSoft user since I have memory, actually I developed my basics computers skill with MS-DOS 5.x and have used allmost every single flavor of MS-Windows from 3.1 to the date, so you could tell I know the Windows game fairy well (even worked for a year as a teacher on a Windows training center).

Now, about 2 months ago I decided it was time for a long overdue change into Linux (stability reasons mainly, not to mention some HUUUUGE network security holes that are on EVERY windows pc sold to the date).

So here I`m. Have been using Red Hat Linux 7.3 & 8.0 for the last 2 months and I REALLY LOVE IT so far. Is way more stable and overall more fast. Of course YMMV.

About the "X" program not been available on Windows or Linux, let me remind you that there is software that let you run programs writen for one OS into the other. That is true both ways (Win <--> Linux) and either way you have more than one choice. Just keep in mind that a program running in an "emulation mode" WILL NEVER be as fast as if running on it's "native mode".

Finally, if you decide to go the Linux way, be warned that installing Linux is not as easy as installing Windows because it demand some little knowlege of how your computer works, specially your Hard Disk Drive (funny, but true). However, that knowlege can almost allways be found on the "Installation Guide" of the Linux distribution that you are about to install, just take the time to read it first.

Once you have the graphic enviroment (KDE, Gnome or wichever comes with your distribution) up and running, Linux looks and behaves pretty much like Windows XP.

ONE LAST NOTE: Since you seem to have already choosen your PC's hardware, take the time to visit the Linux distribution maker's web site and check there if your hardware is supported by them, if not, go to other distribution maker's web site.

Not all "distros" come with the same support level for the same hardware (although the Linux's Kernel, wich is the same in all distros, handles the driver support for most of the PC components). Most of today's distros are shipping with version 2.4.18 of the kernel, that should get the work done fairly well.

Do your homework first!!

[vizion]

sooo much headache for linux..pfff! Go for win2k- I've had it for 2 years now, and have ran most high-end 3d and 2d softs. Very stable and compatible. As of right now, Maya 4.5 is my main one, and it flies on this os, with only 320 ram.

[matty429]

I like macs...I hate the people that use them.....soo damn uninformed....not all of them ..just the ones that claim pc's suck

I have Maya 4.5 unlimited...I didn't get a linux disk....no one does...I got an irix disk though

[beaker]

>>sooo much headache for linux..pfff! Go for win2k- I've had it for 2 years now, and have ran most high-end 3d and 2d softs. Very stable and compatible. As of right now, Maya 4.5 is my main one, and it flies on this os, with only 320 ram.

It depends the work your doing. Maya on windows is a huge memory hog(It uses 4x the ram that a *nix box of the same config will use). Anything with large shadow maps and texture maps will die on windows. One project I worked on that we were rendering in 1080p had many scenes that were between 50-300 meg each(we had about 200 scenes) and easily 1-2 gigs of textures per scene. Maya on windows just croaked with these scenes. 90% of the scenes wouldnt even render on windows because of the 2 gig memory ceiling on 32 bit os/apps. Playblasts crashed the computers all the time. I was always working on multiple machines because it took 20-30 minutes just to open the scene and half the time the windows box would croak on it.

Also forgot to add, linux gives you about a 15-30% speed boost on renderings in maya depending on the processor/scene.

[ZaonDude]

Brent,

Unless you're specifically aiming for work with ILM, Pixar, or Digital Domain, I'd avoid the Maya+Linux combination for now.

Also, coming from Cinema4D you may find your transition into Maya less than pleasant because of how overly technical and thus opposite to Mac/C4D it is. Many professionals refuse to accept that C4D has come a LONG way and I would definitely rank it up there (only recently) as a comparable to the Maya/Lightwave/3dsmax/Houdini/Soft/Cinema4D big boys. The big boys are now a group of 6 as opposed to 5 packages ;-)

You are right, however, in wanting to leave Mac behind for a career in 3D. Even Pixar (CEO Steve Jobs' other company) refuses to use Macs for 3D LOL, so that's gotta tell you something :wavey:

Finally, although Linux is my recommended OS for web servers and many network server systems, it is NOT a wise workstation choice. Certainly LInux is far better than Windows 95, 98, 98se, ME, and so on, but Windows 2000 and recently Windows XP Pro put it to shame.

A properly configured Win2k/XP system is every bit as stable as the average Linux distro. And, although Windows ships in a less secure configuration, it can be tightened up to be every bit as secure as well (the NSA has recently issued a report declaring Linux and other open source OSes as the new and upcoming security risk for this decade with massive previously-unreported security holes).

Also, the Linux version of Maya (though not as flakey as the OSX version) is not as mature as the Windows version. Whenever an app platform port has less users on a given platform, fewer bugs are discovered, reported, and fixed. And although ILM and other users have locked-down many of those bugs now that they have largely shifted to Linux-driven workstations leaving the slower SGI behind, they often make such 'repairs' themselves and via special custom-configured versions they purchase in bulk under special contract. AND, remember, ILM doesn't render in Maya! and Maya's renderer is where most of the Maya-induced headaches stem.

I've authored a number of articles that cgtalk links to, and which you may find useful in making your decision:

"Choosing the Right 3D Application and Total Solution for You" — http://zaon.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=299

"Is Mac a Good Platform Choice for 3D?" — http://zaon.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=352

"Protect Yourself Now: ZAON Computer Workstation & Internet Security Recommendations" — http://zaon.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=597

"Brazil R/S versus PRMan (RenderMan) Renderers" — http://zaon.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=479

"How to get STABLE 3D Workstation Hardware, and Explanations of Computer Components" — http://www.zaon.com/company/technology/hardware.php

"Are those SubD's you're working with? Not likely..." — http://zaon.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=306

[Modulok]

@ZaonDude

That was kind of a cool article about the subDs :thumbsup:

And that thread about the different apps....jebus, some people are totally married to their software...I mean my god, get over it, if something about your app sucks, let it go and stop defending it so damn bad....makes you think they work for the distributor. Great article btw!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
-Modulok-

[ZaonDude]

Yeah, Modulok, it's all too common to see people defend their apps with religious fervor. But, it's only natural to defend one's personal choice and pricey investment—it helps reaffirm their decision was correct for themselves by preaching the 'wisdom' to others. ;-)

Which is why I always try to approach such topics with a very open mind so that I can see the pros and cons of apps besides the ones I use personally—which is the approach I took with my article. Though, it isn't always that easy to stay remain objective :wavey:

I'm glad you enjoyed my articles :applause:

[Modulok]

I'm currently using XP pro, and have had no problems with maya or XP crashing except for once...don't know what happened, but its not crept up again..so far. ..that is with the exception of the funky deal going on with the soft bodies (which I just made a new thread about btw..but I don't think thats the OS)

...I always try to approach such topics with a very open mind so that I can see the pros and cons of apps besides the ones I use personally—which is the approach I took with my article. Though, it isn't always that easy to stay remain objective...

You seemed to have pulled it off IMO, nice work :thumbsup:

-Modulok-

[matty429]

ZaonDude:

Do you think Apple is up to something..?.buying out all theese high end companys...getting maya...Going unix..(sort of)
They just need hardware to match...Id be real interested to see if they can produce a decent machine to run theese apps...And I guess an announcment is not too far away...

[ZaonDude]

Originally posted by matty429
ZaonDude: Do you think Apple is up to something..?

Yes, most likely.

The smartest thing they could do at this point is sell their OS for the Intel/AMD PC platform as an alternative to Windows and Linux. Their unix-based OSX could be a transition step in that direction. There are some strong points to OSX, but the motorolla/g4 hardware just continues to fall behind. The money isn't their for the expensive highend chip fab they need to compete.

We shall see.

But, any such changes are too far off to impact the decisions of anyone trying to get into 3D at this point.

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