Where are all c4d copies going?

[Johnny Jpeg]

I see posts for motion graphic artists that require C4D all the time.

[PetrolUk]

I think Johnny's right, it's very popular in MoGraph companies. You'll probably find it's because they're mostly small niche business like my own, that they tend to use a freelancer they've known for a while.

[DELTAadmin]

I think printing industry buys a lot of copyes of Cinema 4D, since it is a very handy app to produce print quality images with huge sizes, and excellent quality. As I know, here in Hungary many freelancers and some printing presses use this 3d software exlusively when they are in need of creating some 3d element (logos, illustrations...).

[Shilts]

Wow, is C4D really overtaking sales of Max, XSI and Maya etc (in some cases)? Where do you get this information from danb? If so, this makes me really happy. There is no software more deserving of a bit of success more than Cinema.

I think a lot of the reason that the sales figures could possibly account for a higher volume than other software (and yet no more job positions) is the fact that as previously mentioned, a lot of print / web design companies tend to buy the software. The interesting thing though is the fact that (and I don't know if i can actually back this up with statistics) the design industry is actually a lot larger and more fragmented than the 3D industry. It also has potential for growth with 3D as it is not anywhere near saturated by 3D software.

In my experience (including the company I work for), a lot of the purchases within the design industry are from companies only just really starting to look to 3d animations and stills as a way supplementing their usual 2d approach to design. So, you often don't get any bespoke position in a company as a 3d person, it is just an additional skill besides Photoshop, Illustrator, inDesign and Flash etc. However, I think that may change a little soon, as the 3d element is becoming more important in all areas of design. Especially when you consider a lot of traditionally static mediums (such as billboards) are becoming motion graphics, and the print houses are starting to change their outlook.

[Per-Anders]

hmm... no-one published any sales data afaik, so wehre did you hear this?

the last time i heard anything was several years ago, and c4d was the third most popular/largest user base of the top 5 apps back then. max in number 1 with a huge margin, i think lw in second. how this figure is calculated i do not know, seeing as none of the companies seem keen on releasing sales data. however it's probably safe to assume this was the case then (before people go "no that can't be true" remember maya may be used in high profile stuff, but that's not the same as having a large user, same as xsi until recently, high profile only, hollywood is niche compared to all the other markets out there).

[Kuroyume0161]

I just completed a plugin for an English design firm doing stage design and kinematics for a large international production (opening in Canada, stage work by company in Netherlands, design in UK). The design firm and stage work company are using Cinema 4D for visualization and design.

Of course, we've seen more and more credits in movies for Cinema 4D as part of the animation/3D CG work.

Must be something to it?

[cookepuss]

hmm... no-one published any sales data afaik, so wehre did you hear this?
Hmmm... Could it have been in a Roncarelli report? The 2002 report placed C4D at #3 among other 3D packages, up from #11 in 2000. This info is available along with other Maxon press releases. Don't know about the most recent report though. That one probably accounts for R7.

EDIT>> A March 2004 Sony-related Maxon release maintains that C4D's marketshare is still a solid 3rd place.

EDIT 2>> Just keep in mind that the Roncarelli report tracks licenses sold. With the world the way it is, real world statistics may not match sales statistics.

EDIT 3>> According to a 2002 post by Kai, the 2002 top 5 ranking included:
1)Max
2)LW
3)C4D
4)Maya
5)SI

Remember, that's 2002. 2004/2005 may be the same... or not.

[danb]

Ok i guess i wasn't really that descriptive when i said over taking. I just meant that sales seem to be pretty close to what maya, xsi and max a few years ago. I guess i would assume that its a similar case now.


But the main topic is just that i don't see many jobs, here in USA, for c4d positions. They are almost exclusively max and maya jobs. I even see more poser jobs than c4d. That doesn't mean i see no jobs for c4d, just very little.

It does seem to be more popular in europe than here. I guess i was just curious as where to look for jobs. :shrug:
Because i want more than anything to get a job using c4d.

[Tavy]

I am in no way an expert on this topic, but I can say 3D Attack has a very large readership in the USA (and western Europe as well). The majority of the readers located in the USA are professionals working for the media in some form. Many television channels, television networks, movie studios, advertising agencies, have subscribed to our magazine. If they subscribed to a magazine based on CINEMA 4D, my guess is they must be using it in one form or another. If you're not into freelance work and want a hired position in a company, I would start with the media. As I said, I'm not an expert in this area, it's just an observation I've made.

Tavy

[Uncle-Ox]

When I look at my site's visitor analysis, most people that get directed there, are from the USA (50%+) and since I haven't really posted anything other than in the C4D forum, I think it's safe to assume that most C4D users are located in the US (my site isn't on any search engine at present and all visits are currently referals and mostly from CGTalk).

I think what really hurts C4D in other countries, is the fact that C4D for the rest of the world is the same number of Euros as what the number of Dollars is for the US. In other words, the rest of the world pays almost 1,5 times as much for C4D as what it costs in the US. This is a strange phenomenon seeing that C4D's place of origin is outside the US.

[cookepuss]

Not sure how valid or invalid that statistic is, given that it's based on traffic stats alone. To me, it would only make sense that the largest concentration of C4D users would be non-US. Most of the major C4D sites and resources are off continent. Most of the available books and training resources are also non-US. C4D would have to have a fairly larger user non-US user base to justify an equally larger product/community base.

[JoelOtron]

I'm on the east Coast USA (Philadelphia suburb) and am begining to run into more and more people who use it.

I know one stage designer here who uses C4d for set design.

I occasionally work with a fairly large broadcast/motion graphics studio that uses C4d for everything--do a lot of HD stuff too.They moved from LA to Philadelphia (for some reason) and in conversations mentioned that a lot of the studios like them back on the West Coast use c4d.

Several illustrators I'm friends with use C4d (mostly from my influence :)

One of the jobs I'm currently working on requires me to sync up my files with another stdio that also uses C4d. Its medical/science based animation for the publishing industry.

2 years ago I didnt know anyone else outside these forums who even knew what C4d was.

[Tavy]

The only true way you're going to get accurate stats are from MAXON. Whether they will give them or not, I don't know. As I said we have a large reader base in the USA and Western Europe. We reach Asia, Africa, South America, Canada, Australia, the Middle East, etc...as well. The majority of readers though are from the USA and Western Europe. If I narrowed it down to the two.... 40% USA / 60% W. Europe. But then again, not every C4D user reads our mag.

Tavy

[RangTang]

Why the problem for C4D plugin developers, why the lack of C4D in higher education (US)? The 3rd most used 3D program, I don't see this in real world usage.

[DELTAadmin]

One more piece regarding Hungary:

as I know recently one of our main commercial tv station bought 2 licenses for c4d. It is almost unbelievable, since our studios used solely Maya, LW for almost everything for years.

[AdamT]

Why the problem for C4D plugin developers, why the lack of C4D in higher education (US)? The 3rd most used 3D program, I don't see this in real world usage.
I think plugin developers face a few problems:
1) it's hard to reach the users who don't frequent forums--and many commercial users don't frequent forums;
2) larger studios tend to develop their own plugins and/or eschew commercial pluigns (I suspect in part due to registration hassles mentioned in a recent thread). Imagine you have 20 Cinema licenses and 10 registered plugins for each machine. Next time you have to upgrade Cinema you have to obtain and install 200 new registration numbers--not including 20-160 Cinema serial numbers (depending on # of modules). That's insane.

With respect to higher education, I imagine part of it is marketing by 3D companies and part is marketing by universities (i.e., they promote jobs in the film/games industries where Cinema is under-represented).

[Ernest Burden]

There is a larger issue of what is the impact of the industry, and especially some subsets like arch-vis. Not just how many C4D users, but how many working 3D content creators, worldwide.

Jeff Mottle of CGarchitect.com has been working very hard to get the SIGGRAPH show to take the architectural end of the field more seriously, though they seem resistent. I'm leaning towards going to this year's SIG in LA, so maybe I'll see for myself.

I'm used to using the 'number 2' or 'number 3' app, by not ever using an Autodesk title for my main work. The American Institute of Architects used to do a software survey, though I don't think they still do.

A user survey is the most likely way, I would think, to track usage stats. For example, I own Rhino but rarely use it. So does that raise or lower the programs 'ranking'. Same for FormZ, don't use it much. What I do use, everyday, is Cinema. Sales figures, even if available, would not show that difference, which is an important one. Especially to plug-in writers.

[cyartist]

As and American I can tell you that Cinema 4d has the most upside potential for penetrating the US market. Because it is the most intutive interface. Maya and Max even Lightwave's Interface does not comply with the American way of logic and design. Cinema 4d interface is more logical to the average American. Cinema is powerful. If they fix the renderer to match Maxwell like renders or Vrays. Make a simple pdf manual for using expresso and coffee. A Coffee xpresso script recorder. And make the Character animation tools simple with a built in autorigger like motion builder with Biped rigs included into the interface. Then Maya max and everthing else will dissappear off the face of this earth.

[Incarnadine]

I'm one of those hobby users. I did do graphic arts for a full service commercial printing operation through high school and university but went over to engineering when I realized i wasn't doing MY artwork anymore at the end of the day. My work as an aerospace engineer allows me this luxury now.

I went with Cinema (R9 core/AR2) as it was affordable (worked up from the magazine freebie CE+) and I loved the way it worked. It just felt right and the support crowd here and over at renderosity (where most of my images are posted) made a big bonus.

I suspect there are a bunch more like me out there in those numbers.

[hundredthirtyseven]

As and American I can tell you that Cinema 4d has the most upside potential for penetrating the US market. Because it is the most intutive interface. Maya and Max even Lightwave's Interface does not comply with the American way of logic and design. Cinema 4d interface is more logical to the average American.

The situaition is the same here in Hungary too. Teaching C4D for users who just want to create interior/exterior designs or who just start to know 3D is much more easier than teaching 3Dsmax or Maya.

[RorrKonn]

2005 or 2004 TS had a list saying they where #1
List came from a Mag I think.

Seems like Poser,zBrush is used more then any of the main App's.
then again u could call them plugs.BP2 is a plug for all the main app's also.

I Don't worry about who's popular or not just use what I like & can afford.
but if a lot of people our using a app but they don't talk English don't reckon I would ever meet them.

if ya want to get a 3D job guess it wouldn't hurt to learn all the App's.

RorrKonn
rorrkonn@atomic-3d.com (rorrkonn@atomic-3d.com)
http://www.atomic-3d.com (http://www.atomic-3d.com)
TS6.6 SP2,LW7.5c,Basic C4D 9 + BP2,
zBrush 2,Poser 5,DAZ,Visual C++.
What ever it takes to get there.

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