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youknowjack
10-02-2002, 05:11 AM
Hey everyone.
I am a new user here.
It's a great forum.

Now comes the quetion:

Which school is the best one for learning 3ds application and hardware at?

I am willing to do hard work and get the government loan(since I am very poor.)

But , in your mind, which one's the best?

That you get the most goods out of.

I have found two so far. (full sail and collin)

Thank you for any suggestion.

P.S. Where can I find practicing jobs?
I know a little bit of max. I will do anything for experience.

You know JACK.

Elliotjnewman
10-02-2002, 02:10 PM
Academy of Art College in San Francisco.

youknowjack
10-02-2002, 03:03 PM
Thanks for the tip,
I am gonnacheck the school out now.

Anyone else?

By the way, I am willing to work for exprience!

So, if you have some tideous work in 3ds that you don't want to do, as long as I learn something from it, I am willing to do it.

THANKS

P.S. Collins college is not cheap.. 50 thou for 2.5 yrs education.. man ... Did anyone go there?

Youknowjack

Volker
10-02-2002, 05:49 PM
CalArts (California Institute of the Arts)

Rocked my world...

~Zach

MIst
10-02-2002, 08:04 PM
Art Center and then Gnomon, you'll be unstoppable.

flipnap
10-02-2002, 08:29 PM
yeah, so will the student loan collection services!!!!

theMax
10-02-2002, 08:46 PM
I've seid it before and I'll say it ageen "the school you go to dosen't mean a thing, the onlything thats going to get you a job is "you"(!!!!!!!) they can't teach you anything you can't learn at home and on-line."

I started in 3d, teaching at colage in my home town, I've look into about a hendred or so schools (in the US) and I've found the one great truth, there all teaching the same thing, any school that lets anyone with money in... (someones going to flame me for saying this aren't they.) the student body is going to have just a few good artest and the rest... well there going to pretty much... suck.

My piont is don't go looking for a school to teach you anything, the truth is there just finding books on the net and telling you to buy the book from them and then pay them too sit in a "class" and go thouw the book... for the great price of $100-$5000+ a class!:eek: :eek:

I'm not saying that going to school isn't going to teach anything, but your the one thats going to do the leaning, its up to you as the student to make the school the best...

Ok, know I'm not going to send you any school web site, becouse I've found that the one that were posted before me, are some of the best I've been too.

I know this was a bit to long and not all that fun, but trust me...

Max

{Max falls face first into a cow pie, as he gets down from his HighHorse...}:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ariel
10-02-2002, 11:59 PM
I would say, it depends on what it is that you want to do. If you're going to be a modeler, study fine art, painting, sculpture, then learn the 3d tools at a place like Gnomon or using resources on the net like many people have succesfully done it before. I wouldn't go to just any art school. I would focus on figurative art for at least 2-3 straight years doing nothing but drawing, painting, etc. Some of the more expensive art schools like the one i'm in (Savannh College of Art and Design www.scad.edu) have the best equipment, best labs, awesome software, but the professors just don't cut it. Most are school graduates who have no industry experience and stayed teaching and i would mention about only 6 or 7 who are really masters at what they teach. The program is completely twisted, letting you choose any class you want from compositing to character animation, to particles and fx, etc. and the result is more than 60% of the graduates who never find jobs in the industry.

I agree with theMAx in that no school will mke you an artist, but some schools can certainly help you. I wouldn't even consider (after my experience in SCAD) going to a school where they accept everyone as long as they have the cash. For example if i were to study character animation i think only 2 or 3 places in the US are REALLY worth it, Calarts, Ringling and possibly Academy of Art College, then there's Sheridan in Canada. All of these with possibly the exception of a Academy of Art (I could be wrong) are extremely tough to get in and are very cometitive, but they're different from the rest in that they don't brag about their labs and software. They all require strong portfolios to get in (which, again is very rare in most schools) so you know you'll have good competition from your classmates.

It's very important that you know exactly what you want to do before you select a school. Again, if it is animation you want to do, go to a place where you know the teachers and the program is good (one that doesn't make you take tons of unnecessary stuff) and if you want to be a modeler, do illustration, fine art or product design. There's a lot of places other than Art Center, which is very expensive, although one of the best, that will help you get those skills necessary to work in the industry. Check www.wattsatelier.com www.associatesinart.com and www.laafigart.com None of these will give you degrees but are cheaper than a regular college and have professors who really know their stuff. Later you can get into one of the other schools with a nice traditional portfolio :cool:

Again this is just my experience and personal opinion, and the most importat thing is that you will be the one to make a difference, not your school or teachers, but they certainly help in some ways.

youknowjack
10-03-2002, 12:28 AM
Thx for everyone's comment.

I think I now understand that no school can actually produce artist . And, I was asking for a school that really teaches stuff that are used in the reall business.

I am probably aiming for animation and special effects(Particles).

So, Academy of Art is the one to go?

Any more comments will be welcome.

P.S. I am making a short 30 sec commerical for my japanese class.Please evaluate it for me later.
TIA

Youknowjack

duqqy
10-03-2002, 12:32 AM
Ringling School of Art (http://www.rsad.edu)

Ariel
10-03-2002, 12:32 AM
If i wanted to go into special fx and particles, etc. I'd probably study programming, computer science and computer graphics theory (from the point of view of programming). Being good in math is also something that helps, although not always required. I think Academy of Art wouldn't be the place to go if that is your aim.

Grey
10-03-2002, 01:51 AM
<----thinks CGTalk should be on that list...

youknowjack
10-03-2002, 03:33 AM
Sorry , guys:

I have some questions on 3d applications.

In my school project, I want to model a waterfall.

Is there any tutorial on it?

Is it possible to do it with max's particle(bouncing water, deflecting from the rock) with meta particle?

I have tried some settings , but it doesn't work on my pIII

for two reasons:

1) Too many particles cooliding with itself crashes max.
2) Raytracing completely kills ram.

Perhaps, there is a easier way?

The other thing is, that I have a little climbing animation of a smal bipe on the mountain.
Currently, I am using the demo lifeform 4.0to animate.
It only converts to max2.0's bipe.

Does this mean I have to animate the character in max?

Just some questions.

Thank you for your concern.

Youdontknowjack

P.S. Which apps has the better particle engine?

MIst
10-03-2002, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by theMax
I've seid it before and I'll say it ageen "the school you go to dosen't mean a thing, the onlything thats going to get you a job is "you"(!!!!!!!) they can't teach you anything you can't learn at home and on-line."

I started in 3d, teaching at colage in my home town, I've look into about a hendred or so schools (in the US) and I've found the one great truth, there all teaching the same thing, any school that lets anyone with money in... (someones going to flame me for saying this aren't they.) the student body is going to have just a few good artest and the rest... well there going to pretty much... suck.

My piont is don't go looking for a school to teach you anything, the truth is there just finding books on the net and telling you to buy the book from them and then pay them too sit in a "class" and go thouw the book... for the great price of $100-$5000+ a class!:eek: :eek:



You're right about the money thing with certain school where they will take anyone with cash. Otis is definately one of them, Academy of SF you dont even need a portfolio to get into, not saying it's a bad place, and so-on.

But let me tell you this. Art Center is one of the top if not top art school/s in the world. The teachers there arent there for the money. You have to have a extremely strong portfolio to enter this school and it has to be focused on what your major is, you cant have some of this and some of that.

Im not trying to start a pissing contest or anything but people should know that this school does not need you to come to their school just because your rich, they have enough people tryin to enter and they really dont care about the issuse of taking people in because they have money. Once again Im not flaming on anyone or critisizing their point of view.:wavey:

himizu
10-03-2002, 08:33 PM
Full Sail University in Florida

awnold
10-03-2002, 08:38 PM
For the Academy's point of view here are some things to consider.

Undergraduate might not need a portfolio to get in, again, I was not undergraduate but I have a feeling the director for that department would not let you near the major if you didnít show something substantial.

Number 2, you must work in the industry (currently) to even be considered to teach any class in any major.

Three is, these industry professionals are not professional teachers, they are instructed to grade very hard, with a even bell curve, meaning there are many who either barely pass or donít. A's are basically unheard of. If you donít have at least a C average you are put on probation, one more semester at that level and you are out. This is just part of the process, most people, when faced with this do put in the effort to improve, but to stay at that level is a constant struggle.

They have around a 90 percent job placement rate upon graduation, if you didnt have the skills when you got in, you where probably hovering around probation for years until you developed them. By graduation you definitely had themÖ
Again, this is just my take of what goes on there, hopefully it will clear up some things. =)

Ariel
10-03-2002, 09:38 PM
Himizu, I have to say i disagree about Full Sail in the sense that they mainly just teach software programs, which is the skill less essential when trying to get a job (i didn't say it is not important. Kowing your 3d tools is very important) but the thing i've noticed at least in my school is that the students that focus on just learning Maya, for example, get very good at that, but just that. They know every button, every script, all the little technical things there are to know, but when you see their portfolio, you can tell ight away that they're lacking a lot in other areas, which are at least to most major companies more important.

I thinks overall you need to make a balance on what skills you need to learn but to always give priority to the artistic skills, not the software skills.

Here's a quote i got from the Pixar website:
-Learn enough about computer graphics to know how they work in general. Look for a school that has not substituted electronic arts for traditional (or vice versa). Ask them about how they balance the two. Avoid just learning packages of software. Todayís packages will be replaced several times during your school career, and many studios use proprietary software that you cannot learn in school anyway. Learn enough to know you can learn it, but concentrate on the more expressive traditional skills.

bentllama
10-03-2002, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by theMax
I've seid it before and I'll say it ageen "the school you go to dosen't mean a thing, the onlything thats going to get you a job is "you"(!!!!!!!) they can't teach you anything you can't learn at home and on-line."

Oh brother, that comment cannot be further from the truth.

youknowjack
10-03-2002, 11:12 PM
Really thanks for everyone's comment,

So, learning the program is not always the main concern.

People does not need to know everything, just enough to express themselves.

Since I live in California.

Academy of Art or Art center are two major choices, huh?

Keep the comments coming.

One question: is an animator or modeler or special effectlists' style very important?

JACK

MIst
10-03-2002, 11:28 PM
I dont think the style is important as long as you can get the job done. Companies are not looking for "techies" who not the programs inside out, they're looking for genuine artists who use the computer as just another medium like a paint brush, remember that always.

You noted that you live in CA, where do you live?

Ariel
10-03-2002, 11:32 PM
Youknowjack-

That's a very good question. I think that it really depends on what you want to do after you graduate and what industry you're interested. For games, the common thing (until recently) has been that artists are a bit more well rounded, where they can sometimes model, texture and even animate. If film is your interest, then it's better if you specialize. Most film productions have bigger crews and they often have more structured pipelines of work, in which some people model or scan maquettes, other people texture, then animators just animate the characters/objects, and fx guys focus on their thing and so on. But it also happens that even in film their is overlap in the positions artists fill. You can find an animator that does rigging and some TD work as well as modelers that also do texturing work. This is why it is very important to know what it is that you're going to do because most of the time going to the right place will help you to get a better job. For example, I would go to Art Center's Illustration program instead of Academy of Art in SF if my interest was being a character concept artist. But I would go to CalArts if my focus was character animation.

As an example, I have a friend who is a very good artist but hates games and is against working on big Hollywood companies, because he feels like a Factory Line worker and not an artist. He decided that upon graduation he's going to produce his own short films and submmit his work to film to festivals and such. In his case he's better off knowing a bit from every field in the film and animation process.
Good Luck

bentllama
10-03-2002, 11:39 PM
A good school will help you in your quest. While the skills are fundamentaly taught at different schools it is the experience of being around your peers that is golden. If you are in a school with people less talented than you, you will not grow as much as being in a school with people as or more talented. You feed of of other's experiences in school, something that this forum cannot replace while learning at home. Most often, you are only as good as the people you surround yourself with...

I have a few observations on style. Style is important to show creativity. Style can show your thought process...but also be aware that you should be able to work in several styles...art direction will always be different from project to project. The people who dictate the style on a project are usually higher up the ladder...which reminds me of a saying: "You have to become a "yes" man , before you can become a "no" man."

In the end regardless of style, it is the tradition art skills/principles you demonstrate in your work and how you apply those to CG that will get you the job. School can help guide you there, and your peers are priceless.

piajartist
10-04-2002, 01:29 AM
San Francisco Art Institute is a good school

youknowjack
10-04-2002, 03:17 AM
Thanks again for all the insight.

I think I am gonna do special effects, and a little bit of character animation so I can do a demo reel in the spare time (after school)

So, movie special effects production, my field.

Speaking of which, I saw my friend using "thinking particle" from Cebas.

The included example files look awesome.

Could it be max's particle solution?

I am not very good with polygonal modelings. May some expert post a link to tutorials.

P.S. How do you do a realistic waterfall?
My comp still crashes on millions of meta particle(with self collide. and udeflector.)

Which apps has a better engine for particle?

Thank you all again.

Youknowjack

Ariel
10-04-2002, 03:22 AM
If you're into Effects and particles i think the best programs to learn would be Maya and Houdini. Maya is more comonly used but i've heard that Houdini's procedural engine and fx tools are more advanced than Maya''s (so learn both :thumbsup: ) There's a Learning version for Maya (free), and i'm almost sure there's one for Houdini as well.

Good Luck

AlexSCAD
10-04-2002, 04:55 AM
Hi,

You can find out more information concerning Houdini/Houdini Apprentice from Side Effects Software. Apprentice version is available for download as well.

Cheers.

Elliotjnewman
10-04-2002, 01:51 PM
Well I'm from the UK and I'm currently studying an Art Foundation degree at Bournemouth, which you have to do before you start a BA course. This course is really doing me over, Im just not learning what I wanna do, been going over things I already know, but I have to do them again becuase its part of the course! bah! I don't mind doing things like life drawing etc. but I want to learn Lightwave and other 3d packages which I just can't do at the moment until I finish my Foundation degree!!!

What I am thinking now is to quit college and to learn at home, besides I've managed to learn loads of stuff in LW without the help of a tutor, and I know what it will be like even if I do start a BA course in computer animation - I will have to go through learning how to build a box, learn what a polygon and a nurb is etc etc. I just feel I could accomplish more in a shorter time by myself, then put a reel together - I will also have no student loans to pay off!!

Emmortal1
10-25-2003, 09:20 AM
I'd like to comment on Full Sail, having first hand experience with it. They teach very heavy technical side of 3D, they teach Maya for the 3D package and Shake/After Effects for compositing. However they do go into many of the traditional fundamentals of not only animation but art in general. The program is 14 months long, pretty strenuous schedules, the school runs 24/7 with minimal breaks for holidays. The first class in the CA (Computer Animation) program is a 2 month course on drawing, sculpting, storyboarding and character creation, focusing on fundamentals of art and how to draw what you see using every medium possible.

To say that you can tell someone was a FS grad by looking at their demo reel is a pretty amazing feat to accomplish. I don't really see how someone who went to FS who barely made it through, i.e. put little effort into it, compares to someone who went to say Ringling who did the same. Their reels are going to be of the same quality, very poor.

Granted FS does not have a portfolio requirement to get in, which I truly wish they did, a lot of people do not get jobs coming out. But then again, I know a lot of people who've gone to Ringling, Gnomon, Pensalvania, and San Fran, that still do not have jobs to this day, some 2 years after graduating.

So it's really a relative statement. FS is a great school if you want to get in, learn as much as you can humanly possibly learn in a 14 month period, get out and get a job. And as far as the quality of work some of the graduates from there can account to, just take a look at Pixar, ILM, Sony Imageworks, Tippet, Digital Domain, ReelFX, etc, plus the countless game companies that graduates work at as well. Almost every major studio there is at least 1 FS graduate there and in some instances 10+.

Anyway, like it has been stated, it's what you do with what you know when you are finished with school. Good luck,

Emmortal

kflich
11-19-2003, 01:14 PM
i have been planing too learn 3d animation in one of the many schools in the U.S, since i have some funding for education. the only problem is i can never figure out from the different schools website how much is the tuition cost. every school has it's own system : one is based on credits, one on courses and some have fees for the whole semester. the way i know it (well, the way thing are here in israel) every school year has 3 semesters, and 2 of them are learning time. we pay out tuition for the whole year in advance.
my question is : is there a rule of thumb about the average tutiton cost for a whole schoole year in art colleges ?
i need to find out just how much is it so i can set up my funding and save accordinly.

thanks in advance.

p.s
offcource i am refering too an international student tuition, which i understand is always higher then the tuition for u.s citizens.

gtidhar
11-19-2003, 02:40 PM
Does someone knows the link to the mentioned Art Center in California?

I've seen a couple of art center in google, and I don't know which are you talking about.

Noc
11-19-2003, 04:02 PM
currently I am going to "The Art Institute of California, San Diego"
I havnt been here long so my input isnt as valuable, but from what ive seen so far, the school is very good, the teachers are excellent, and tehy make sure your happy with it by giving 2 surveys of the teachers each quarter, alot of the teachers have been in the industry for a very long time and know what their talking about....their is the exception for one or 2 that arnt the best at teaching but deffinatly know what their doing...also you get a very well round education and their are very many inspiring people here that will get you to want to work to their lvl....But Im pretty happy atm with my schooling here...their are alot of "AI's" around so you might wanna check one out if your in cali...

zanian
11-19-2003, 04:06 PM
http://www.artcenter.edu/

april
11-19-2003, 08:53 PM
The full name is: Art Center College of Design, Pasadena, CA.

Website (http://www.artcenter.edu/)

I went there, but it was before the whole CG thing. I studied Illustration. There are quite a few of us (ACCD-Illus) running about in CG jobs these days. It's helpful as far as casual networking. And most will assume your art skills are decent if you've been there.

It is very expensive. If you're good enough, try and get a scholarship before you attend. Don't try and apply for it after you enroll. I knew people who did and they would get their scholarship about when they were to graduate.

Student loans shouldn't be too bad to repay once you land a job. That's what most people gamble on when they go to expensive schools--that it will pay off in the end by landing them a good job. Owing from 70 to 100K after graduation is pretty common.

ACCD is also an accredited 4 year (although year-round, so it can be around 3.5 years or less) college that will get you a bachelors degree of some sort. That can also be extremely useful to have--in CG and out...

gtidhar
11-20-2003, 06:22 AM
Thanks guys :beer:

mattregnier
11-20-2003, 02:28 PM
Leigh already has posted an extensive, and I do mean EXTENSIVE list of schools in the US and Worldwide here:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69427

I mean it's a sticky thread already at the top of the list.

specialk12
01-22-2004, 05:01 PM
I know some schools require you to send in a portfolio to get accepted. But the problem for me is that I haven't created a porfolio. You see I just graduated in computer science and I want to go and study computer animation/special effects.

How would I create my own portfolio without the help on a professor or someone who really knows. Are there books outhere to teach me how to create an impressive portfolio?

Any opinions would be appreciated

Thanks

Specialk12:thumbsup:

johnnynightlife
01-26-2004, 04:46 AM
im thinking about applying tognomon,anyone tell me if this school isn't one of those "buttton pushing " schools? I already have a great deal of knowledge of maya through gnomons DVD collection i bought and think was a great purchase, well worth the money. But now im looking for some Artistic training. I am also looking at Rhode Island School of Design, as it is a Great ART school, and i am from Boston. well, maybe not so much a full on art school, but an in depth training for animation, compositing, so fourth, and so on.

danniesanchez
01-28-2004, 09:02 AM
-edited.

boy that $1500 gnomon admissions price is steeep

Spritemare
02-12-2004, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by himizu
Full Sail University in Florida

I beg to differ. Take the following link with a grain of salt:

http://www.fullsailsucks.com/

...anyone considering going to this school should read this site. It just might save your life/wallet.

What does everyone think of Ringling in FL?

http://www.rsad.edu/indexfs.html

Quingu
03-16-2004, 09:15 AM
Hi everyone,

I was thinking about going to Ringling myself to. I really like to know if this school is any good from people who either been there or have heard about it. I wanna be 100% sure this is the school for me to go to because I will have to make some big changes in my life. I live in the Netherlands so it will require me to move to the States for 4 years and spent quite a bit of money. Don't want to find out its a crappy school once i get there :D

Appreciate your feedback


PS. I love the work i see on these forums. There are really some talented people here.

Synthetic Rayne
03-17-2004, 04:37 AM
People with questions about schools should really, REALLY, read one of the very first posts to appear in General Discussions made by Leigh and read what is under there. Another suggestion would bealso go to the upper part of the web page. Four buttons over from the upper right hand side, is a button titled "search" in capitalized white sanserif font. From there, press the button. Type in the name topic, subject, keyword, "school" that one has inquiry with, and press the "enter" button. Wait a few minutes. See what comes up. Filter through.

RESEARCH! . . .

There are SO many threads that ask the same questions . . .

(: Much Luv.

Signal2Noise
03-17-2004, 04:45 AM
Jack, dude, your thread is all over the place. First you ask about schools then you throw in 'How Do I..." questions about an app. First, keep the thread you started on topic. Secondly, there are app-specific forums here where you can post those types of questions. Lastly, if you decide on a school these basic questions of yours will be answered in no time!:thumbsup:

Emmortal1
03-17-2004, 05:34 AM
"I beg to differ. Take the following link with a grain of salt:

http://www.fullsailsucks.com/

...anyone considering going to this school should read this site. It just might save your life/wallet."

Wow, just because someone made a website complaining about a school someone shouldn't go to it? You should research every school before considering it. Funny thing is I've heard horror stories from every single school mentioned here, including San Fran. So take what you hear with a grain of salt is true, and it might be best to ask from those that have actually been through the program rather than dropped out halfway because they couldn't hack it.

jcheels114
03-17-2004, 01:25 PM
Yeah I've been hearing basically that all schools are bad. I've just been accepted into the MFA for computer animation at both SCAD and Academy of Art in San Fran. I'm leaning towards SCAD because I would probably be at AA for four years because the grad program takes 3 and they gave a bunch of prereq courses. Anyone who went to SCAD, is the grad program any better than what i've been hearing about the undergrad program. The good thing about this school is that I should take a bunch of drawing and painting courses, and this school would let me. Let me know if you have any precautions or even some good things to say about it.

neomato
04-08-2004, 10:19 PM
Sorry to bring this kinda old thread up but i got to ask. Does anyone know any college that is qiute cheap, dont ask for portfolio and be ok quality (not totally waste of time and money).

By the way all those huge prices I'm seeing. Should I assume they will include a room for me to stay or do i have to spend aditional money for a flat?

loner86
04-09-2004, 05:43 AM
One school Ive been looking into is digipen because it's close to where I live. I was wondering what you guys think of it. Is the computer animation program there any good?

http://www.digipen.edu

jeremybirn
04-09-2004, 05:53 AM
Originally posted by april
The full name is: Art Center College of Design, Pasadena, CA.

Website (http://www.artcenter.edu/)

I went there, but it was before the whole CG thing. I studied Illustration. There are quite a few of us (ACCD-Illus) running about in CG jobs these days. It's helpful as far as casual networking. And most will assume your art skills are decent if you've been there.

I went there back when most of the students doing 3D graphics were in the vehicle design or industrial design program - the SGI labs were called the "General Motors Computer Graphics Lab" - but now there's a lot of other ACCD people here at Pixar, and I hear of many of the others who were hanging around the computer labs at my time working at (or running) other leading CG companies. Sure it's competetive to get in, expensive, etc. but has proven worthwhile for a lot of people.

-jeremy

chubob
04-24-2004, 04:45 PM
maybe it's too late to post in this thread, but still.

I've read every single post in this thread and... i'll just be graduated from highschool in a year and I am very interested in the 3d stuff. But I dont know what industries exists and what are they all about. I've read that the 3d school you choose is strongly related with the industry you want to work in: like modeling, character animation, special effects... and this is the only i have knowledge. I dont really have a portfolio and I'm just beginning into 3d studiomax. I am not very good as illustrator but I prefer designing, creative stuff, and working in films.

I was thinking about academy of arts in san francisco cause it dont ask for portfolio for undergraduates but I dont really know into what industry I'll get in. Please, can anyone post the industries like modeling, special effects, and a brief description of it and the best place to study it? or if you just know about one or two, I dont care since it will be helpful. Thanx:p

hbeachman
04-25-2004, 11:14 AM
I like to comment on the school I went to. I am in New Zealand and the school is called the Media Design School. It is around 20k USD I think. It is a good school but I think that no school is perfect. We have a new Head tutor from the VFS and he would like to change the direction a little which is away from being software focused and to teach more about drawing skills which even in some art schools is not pushed too hard.
The industry knows that the software gets easier to use each year so creativity is what they want. The school has about 50 percent overseas students as it is quite cheap compared to some schools in the USA. I heard the Alias run course that are $3800 for four days! But like others have said it is up to the student to make the most out of the time at school.

XenaTrek
08-06-2004, 11:17 AM
Hi,

I'm new here, and was trying to figure out where's a good place to start on my first posting. I haven't read the entire thread yet, so I don't know if what has been said or not, and I apologize in advanced for any repetitive information.

Three of my former co-workers are graduates from Full Sail, and when I asked them about the school in terms of if its a good investment when I have already come from a broad background in 3D Software (Lightwave, 3D Studio Max and most recently Maya), 2D/Graphic Software (Adobe and Macromedia Products) and Film/Video. With my background, they didn't think Fullsail was for me since they are not only expensive, but they taught just the basic or the foundation of which I may already have. (Note: This was around 1999/2000; so I'm sure the program has changed since the discussion).

Hope that helped. If not, thanks for listening.
And good luck.

XenaTrek
XenaTrek@yahoo.com


[QUOTE=youknowjack]
I have found two so far. (full sail and collin)

freekick84
08-16-2004, 06:16 PM
Art Center and then Gnomon, you'll be unstoppable.Could u be more specific about these schools, and the timing of taking them, I searched for art center and i found like 293090940270372472 schools, tell me what do i have to do first...

mummey
08-16-2004, 06:55 PM
List the best 3d school in us
NOT MINE!!! :scream:

kwnoone
08-17-2004, 01:13 AM
From my experience in hiring people there are alot of talented people out there that came from terrible schools, and talentless people from great schools. But in general, the places I've seen that produce best student work (and I can only say from all the reels I've had to look through)

Ringling
Savannah College of Art and Design
Cal Arts

Nicool
08-30-2004, 08:39 PM
You know what, thinking about a aim/dream ... let's have a look at the Pixar recognized school : http://www.pixar.com/companyinfo/jobs/schools.html

:thumbsup:

april
08-31-2004, 01:38 AM
Freekick84 wrote: Could u be more specific about these schools, and the timing of taking them, I searched for art center and i found like 293090940270372472 schools, tell me what do i have to do first...

If you'd check the previous posts you'd know which art center is which, since this has been posted before...

Art Center is short for Art Center College of Design, located in Pasadena, CA. Gnomon is also in the L.A. area. ...As are a number of big digital effects houses.

ART CENTER College of Design (http://www.artcenter.edu/)

haffy
09-01-2004, 01:17 AM
Is there anyone that have gone to Miami University of Art and Design and have some pictures or stuff. I want to studdy there but I cannot find any pictures of the campus or more info that there is at the homepage.

ArtisticVisions
10-29-2004, 09:55 PM
Nicool: Thanks for the link; I was curious as to which schools Pixar thought were good schools.

intent
11-07-2004, 08:04 PM
One more option,

I realy like 3D things but I wasn't very sure what I really want.
So I've been and graduated Foundation program for Film, Animation and Interactive Media at Vancouver Film School.(1 year course)

This kind of program helps you to decide what do you really want, and also develop background skills of art such as drawing, art history, and Graphic applications, etc.

Does anybody know the school has 1 year course to complete VFX program except Vanc Film School?

pigeonreverend
11-08-2004, 12:16 AM
Ringling School of Art and Design...i know it's been mentioned plenty of times...but i don't believe there's much of an alternative here in america

thesuit
11-08-2004, 05:27 AM
Not that I want to throw this thread off too much but...
what about Masters degree options? MA or MFA? I only know of SCAD and USC. Is there any more good options at least close to the 3d nieborhood?

jmBoekestein
01-08-2005, 04:57 AM
I went there back when most of the students doing 3D graphics were in the vehicle design or industrial design program - the SGI labs were called the "General Motors Computer Graphics Lab" - but now there's a lot of other ACCD people here at Pixar, and I hear of many of the others who were hanging around the computer labs at my time working at (or running) other leading CG companies. Sure it's competetive to get in, expensive, etc. but has proven worthwhile for a lot of people.

-jeremy
I've only followed 2 links to schools in my lifetime. And the one afore mentioned was one of them! It may not have been wise or smart, but I know what I like. And medium art coming out kinda technical isn't it.
This might really be the "right school". I was impressed with some character designs I've seen there, but I've seen better vehicle designs/work in the WIP thread, not to say that they're bad. The building looks a bit like my school, which is nice, cuase it's square and scarylookin'. I can get used to mine now. hahaha...I wish.

Oh, here's the link again: >>link<< (http://www.artcenter.edu/)

Seriously, people do tend to get hyped about their new magic wands. Everything I read here wabbles from skirmish to praise. It always ends up with the artists own capacities. But what do I know.
As for Ringling school of arts, 2d'ers are great. It's more concept art 'n stuff coming from their, but very good check this site (http://www.conceptart.org) made by ringling people. But I'm uncertain about their animation work, and the best guys in the industry taught themselves, and can use almost anything for their work.
Good luck on your endeavours!

KolbyJukes
01-08-2005, 05:35 AM
We have a new Head tutor from the VFS...
Who is it? Just out of curiosity.

-K.

Epopisces
04-22-2005, 11:40 PM
Hello forums, I am a student at Full Sail University in Orlando. I wanted to add a little more to what has been said already on the school.

First, it is far more of a technical than an art school. You could call it 'art applied to 3D tech'. You should AT LEAST have a background in traditional art, because other than the 2-month course mentioned there is very little taught or required, except for storyboarding and preproduction. The school does not have any admission requirements, so many of your classmates do not have experience with traditional art, and it shows.

It is very unfortunate that there are no admissions guidelines, because well over a quarter of the class will drop out before completion, and LESS than a quarter will complete on time. The schedule is very demanding, with round the clock classes (I have a lecture at 9AM-1PM and a lab from 9PM-1AM 5 days a week this month), though they do ease you into it.

Full Sail has quite a few incredible teachers. . .and some bad ones, like any school I expect. The majority of the courses are well thought out and do teach very important information (and not just exclusively for Maya), but a great deal is presented within a short period of time.

The school is expensive (35k for 14 months) but does produce some incredible artists. Just be warned, if you are not at least an passable artist you will have great difficulty with the courses.

That said, I'm in the school and I love it. The school has alumni in virtually every major studio in North America (and most of the world). And, perhaps best of all, after graduation you can perform an 'audit'; at any time you may return to the school and retake any course (even courses added onto the curriculum after you graduate) in your degree FOR FREE. This is one of the selling points Full Sail students can use, and employers (I imagine) appreciate it.

So it all depends on wether you can commit yourself to 14 months (and for many longer if they fail a class and must retake) of sometimes grueling study. One thing they all tell us when we begin attending Full Sail;
"You get out of it what you put into it."

trence5
04-28-2005, 08:23 PM
Hi all,
Does anyone here have any opinions on the Renaissance Center in Dickson, TN and the Academy of Art in San Francisco? It would be even better if someone here attended or knows someone who did..... Thanks

eric731
06-08-2005, 08:13 PM
Im a currently a student at the Fashion Institute of Technology in new york city, taking a few intro classes in computer graphics, I was going to come here for a bachelors in the fall of 2005, but it was too late so my only option is to wait till fall of 2006 to enter for the degree program.

I thought that would be a waste of a whole year so my second option was the School of Visual Arts but its pretty expensive, but at least i can start in the fall of 2005. Dont get me started on New York University their prices are 3 times higher than SVA.

Anyway I was doing some research on a school in Boca Raton Florida, called the Digital Media Arts College they are a little less costly than SVA, but I can still enter for fall of 2005. They do put u in an apartment in the area with a roommate. Most students who house there do waitoring jobs to pay rent which is between $400-450 a month each. I was planing on taking Fafsa and Loans to pay tuition.

But the main reason I put this post up is because I wanted to get your opinions on all 3 schools I was interested attending, I want to know if theses schools are really top notch especiall Fashion Institute of Technology & Digital Media Arts College ??

omega3d
07-06-2005, 09:53 PM
What is this art center? "Art Center" I couldn't find it in the links... Is this a lingo name?

NucleusDigital
08-12-2005, 02:35 AM
This school is a complete ripoff.. Avoid it at all costs. Do the homework and look at all the negative feedback from this school. It is negative for a reason. Job placement at E.B. games as a clerk making 6 bucks an hour. It sounds like a joke but it is not. The faculty is inexperienced, the classes are over crowded and there is absolutly nothing this school can teach you that you cannot learn on your own.. actually you could learn some of it easier probably without this school convoluting it for you from there teachers with no past experience in using what they teach. Ive had first experience here... Good luck and avoid this place.

Shinova
08-26-2005, 06:06 AM
Would it be better to try to work one's way through all the traditional animation stuff along with basic animation theory (or whatever) at places like Ringling or CalArts and then start drifting into 3D specialization, or would it be better to try to get into the industry as fast as possible through places that specialize in 3D like Gnomon?

Zack Attack
08-26-2005, 06:13 AM
Ringlings a good school i hardly hear bad things about ringling.

omega3d
08-26-2005, 06:15 AM
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=69427

Me personally... I am looking at Ringling, Academy of Art, Gnomon, and definately animation mentor (along wth the above ones)

Epopisces
10-01-2005, 05:16 AM
This school is a complete ripoff.. Avoid it at all costs. Do the homework and look at all the negative feedback from this school. It is negative for a reason. Job placement at E.B. games as a clerk making 6 bucks an hour. It sounds like a joke but it is not. The faculty is inexperienced, the classes are over crowded and there is absolutly nothing this school can teach you that you cannot learn on your own.. actually you could learn some of it easier probably without this school convoluting it for you from there teachers with no past experience in using what they teach. Ive had first experience here... Good luck and avoid this place.

Several months have passed since my last post and I know much more about my school. I'm now into the final project class (essentially creating material for a demo reel).

This school has changed since the days of 'fullsailsucks.com'. The courses have changed, the teachers have changed, and the buildings have changed. Job placement is much better, but it still helps if you actually try to talk to the advisors. One thing many people do is completely ignore the placement department until two weeks before graduation, at which point they are desparate and make bad decisions.

The faculty, with the exception of MAYBE one teacher, are all very experienced in the field. All write their own manuals, and at least two that I know of have published professional books:
Maya Character Creation by Chris Maraffi, the Character Riggin instructor, published by New Riders, and
Maya Feature Creature Creations by Todd Palamar, Course Director of Computer Animation Project, published by Charles River Media)

The teachers definitely know their stuff, and the main problem is that the students don't take the time to ask questions (a 4 hour lecture every day can be hard, and most people just want to get out of there or get on a computer. But if you take advantage of what is there you can greatly benefit). Fullsail doesn't hold your hand: a good bit of the effort must be on your part.

Also, at least once a month people who are currently working in the industry come and give seminars/lectures, etc. The Director of Human resources from Digital Domain came one month. Another month Ed Hooks, a man who gives acting lessons in a school in Chicago, came (he also published one of the books we use) and gave a nearly 8-hour lecture.

For a time the classes were becoming overcrowded---but now fullsail opened two new buildings, one for entertainment business bachelor's degree, and one for Computer Animation :thumbsup:. Now we have two new computer labs, Apple G5s, dual core pentiums, etc., and a very substantial space increase.

That said, if you don't learn very well in a classroom environment, I suggest you try Animation mentor or teach yourself. And, as I said in my previous post, do yourself a favor and have a background in traditional art/animation, it will greatly help.

So my one real complaint about the school is the cost: the tuition increases every year seem overly steep to me. But if you are willing to invest money, but NOT a long period of your life choose fullsail. If you don't have time or money, try to teach yourself or see animation mentor. In all honesty, if you are willing to invest money and time, I would suggest you go to a four year college which will walk you throught traditional art/animation and give you more time to develop your skills: it does make a difference, and is better than fullsail for development over time.

Oh, and here's a little tidbit for ya: acording to my teacher, at SIGGRAPH this year almost half of the people teaching Alias workshops were fullsail grads, including Jeff Unay.

To finish off, I've had 'first experience' there too---I plan to graduate in December, and don't think my choice of school will at all hold me back from getting a good job in the industry. To reiterate: you get out of it what you put into it.

rblitz7
10-01-2005, 05:39 PM
I know theres some kind of 3d animtion program at Santa Barbara City College but dont know much about it. Anybody go there?

matt.nowaczewski
10-07-2005, 02:32 AM
Well I don't know much about how to make 3D models, but college is very important. Just to get a degree. If you are good at learning things alone, get a degree in business management or something close to that. While you study 3DS on your own, or maybe just take a few classes for areas you have a hard time with. That will give you an edge over your competition. Because you have a college degree and it is in management, which comes in handy for such projects.

As stupid as it may seem it is very true.... You don't need a college degree to work at McDonalds, but if you have one you'll make at least 2-3 dollars more per hour just because you have a degree.

Also try www.fastweb.com It lets you search for colleges and scholarships with a powerful search engine.

Best of luck with your endeavors...

P.S. - I might take you up on your offer to do some work for experience. Do you have MSN?

Later.

matt.nowaczewski
10-07-2005, 02:39 AM
I almost forgot to add...

Back in High School, we had a career day. A guy who started up his own Game Studio came to talk to us about the field, and how he did it. Part of his speech put an emphasis on college. His real life example sent the message home well. When he typed up his business plan and first game script to present he sold the idea and got money with out a problem. But when the people who bought into the company found out he only has a High School Diploma they almost dropped him immediately, he had to do a lot of indirect begging and had a pinch of luck.

Don't just disregard it, it's important. I can't say that enough.

robertrowe
03-23-2006, 10:51 PM
Lake Washingon Technical College in Kirkland, Wa ;) I got my ASS degree there for a little under $6500. And I got hired over people with BAS's from SCAD and DigiPen. So that's proof enough that you don't need a high priced school to get a good education. Just make sure that the teachers are there to teach, and that the enviroment is one that will help you excel in the field.

MuSoolSa
03-23-2006, 11:21 PM
Academy of Art College in San Francisco.

This school is good for modeling, vfx, industrial design, graphic design and advertising. It is NOT good for fine art, illustration, CHARACTER animation.

Again, the school you choose should depend on what field you are interested in.

MuSoolSa
03-23-2006, 11:24 PM
They have around a 90 percent job placement rate upon graduation, if you didnt have the skills when you got in, you where probably hovering around probation for years until you developed them. By graduation you definitely had themÖ
Again, this is just my take of what goes on there, hopefully it will clear up some things. =)

This refers to Academy of Art. This statement is NOT true. Even one of the director was quoted in a newspaper that 85% or 90% was far not the case.

As for undergrads, it is very easy to get an A for most 3d classes if you simply do your homeork. I was actually frustrated with this and told them in the surveys to grade harder. I guess for graduate students it's a lot harder.

piajartist
03-25-2006, 11:26 AM
www.cgtalk.com (http://www.cgtalk.com)

learned more here than in school, and its f***ing free too.

moniharri
03-26-2006, 02:41 AM
My Recommended List:
USC
NYU
CalArts
Otis

Schools to look at and visit:
AAU
Woodbury University
LSU
Art Center --->this school is limited in Animation; mainly for people interested in Industrial design

Schools I dont recommend:
SCAD -->Ripoff/Scam
Full Sail

leo00o83
01-12-2007, 09:46 AM
Hi,

I'm very new to the world of 3D graphics. I'm currently studying computer graphics in a Jr. college in Las Vegas and planning on transfering to a 4 year university / art school in California soon.
I'm interested in being an illustrator, doing (almost) exclusively digital illustrations, with 2D and 3D software.

I'm looking for a school that would teach me high end 3D that's NOT entirely meant for animation!
Right now it seems impossible, because after some research I found out that the only majors close to what I want are taught only for 3D animation programs.

There is a whole world of 3D visualizations in the print world right now, so how come nobody teaches it for illustration majors?!

and if there is a school that does (in the west coast area), can anybody recommend me one?

thanks :)

Amir

Synthetic Rayne
01-12-2007, 06:13 PM
You should definitely check out Art Center in Pasadena. For illustration / industrial design, I'd have to say their work is very impressive. I work with several guys from there, and really, they are quite amazing. Go there, then find a friend who can teach you 3D. That's probably your best bet if you really want to focus on illustration and not 3D. Just work on your illustration and the 3D from a friend or tutorials online. If your illustrations are good, you'll have an easier job finding a job rather than if your illustrations are okay and you have a working/average knowledge of a 3D program.

maunilpatel
01-12-2007, 10:59 PM
Any recommendation for Visual FX/Compositing?

School that offers Degree, not certificate..
I am currently plannin on going to Academy of art in San Fransciso in 2008

Synthetic Rayne
01-12-2007, 11:02 PM
Compositing is more of a "motion graphics" sort of thing. I think there are a lot of schools that teach that. I believe Otis in LA has a decent motion graphics program thing. Of course there are others out there.

maunilpatel
01-13-2007, 05:07 AM
Compositing is more of a "motion graphics" sort of thing. I think there are a lot of schools that teach that. I believe Otis in LA has a decent motion graphics program thing. Of course there are others out there.

Otis does not look promising..
Anybody went to Miami International University of Art & Design

Kumo
01-13-2007, 06:23 AM
I've read somewhere on this forum about the Academy of Art's modeling program and how they have to apply and such. Is the modeling program a BFA or MFA thing? I really need to know this because if I go to AAU, I'd really like to know how long I would be in school and acumulate debt.

Thanks,
Kumo

maunilpatel
01-13-2007, 05:59 PM
I've read somewhere on this forum about the Academy of Art's modeling program and how they have to apply and such. Is the modeling program a BFA or MFA thing? I really need to know this because if I go to AAU, I'd really like to know how long I would be in school and acumulate debt.

Thanks,
Kumo

Total of 8 years or 7 and half
You can check it out in degree breakdown list at their site.
But I think you can finish it faster if you want(I am not sure)! You have to ask some of the graduates from their. And Cost if you are going for MFA then I am estimating about $200,000
but if you qualify for Financial Aid then it might riduce but that's about what it costs! I don't think you should do MFA in modeling. Rather do Bachelors(BFA) and then practice on your own if you need to.

Kumo
01-13-2007, 06:01 PM
I was really just asking about their modeling program that I've been hearing about. Is it a BFA thing or MFA thing?

maunilpatel
01-14-2007, 04:58 AM
I was really just asking about their modeling program that I've been hearing about. Is it a BFA thing or MFA thing?

They have both, but it depends how far you want to go in their school..

stevopolis
01-14-2007, 06:34 AM
school of hard knocks!

pentexplorer
02-01-2007, 08:56 AM
what are the good recommended schools in the us now for a degree mainly equipping you with 3D skills and concepts since most of the talk was about the schs back few years ago... i guess things must have changed like curriculum and staff...hows the schs like AAU, SVA, CalArts etc now?

Quantium
02-07-2007, 11:52 AM
Yep, I'm attending Academy of Arts University right now in the Compositing & VFX program, and it's outstanding. Some of their liberal arts courses can get kinda "dull", but you do learn a TON of art skills. Plus they have connections up to wazoo, and it's fun to learn from actual professionals. Word to from wise: STAY AWAY FROM DIGITAL MEDIA ARTS COLLEGE! I went there for two years, and while I was there they said they were going to get accredited....THEY STILL AREN'T!, and that was 2.5 years ago. Plus, their instructor's don't know crap compared to AAU faculty.

blind43
02-07-2007, 03:10 PM
Hey guys,
Just recently join CG Society and i think its an AWSOME forum!

Bascially, im from South Africa, finishing my high school this year.

I am defiantley going to go into the 3d animation and visual effects career.
I have heard about the Vancouver Film School. They are "supposedly" the best school for this time of career choice....

Is this true?

Please let me know some of the BEST 3d schools around.. It does not only have to be in the US.

Thanks

maunilpatel
02-08-2007, 12:37 AM
Yep, I'm attending Academy of Arts University right now in the Compositing & VFX program, and it's outstanding. Some of their liberal arts courses can get kinda "dull", but you do learn a TON of art skills. Plus they have connections up to wazoo, and it's fun to learn from actual professionals. Word to from wise: STAY AWAY FROM DIGITAL MEDIA ARTS COLLEGE! I went there for two years, and while I was there they said they were going to get accredited....THEY STILL AREN'T!, and that was 2.5 years ago. Plus, their instructor's don't know crap compared to AAU faculty.

Thanks for the reply..
What kind of programs do you guys use over there? Shake? Nuke? Maya? and what versions?
How are most of the teachers?

Quantium
02-08-2007, 05:53 AM
Which program you use depends on which classes you take. The only program we don't have yet is Nuke, but we have the newest versions of everything else you listed there. Most of the teachers I've had so far have been really knowledgable, and you get access to more pro-level people the higher up you move in classes.

Shinto
06-04-2007, 05:34 PM
Hi Have anyone got in to Ringling School of Art and Design and is Singaporean?... I would like to ask some Qs abt the Sch/Life... ?



Thanks

blufftone
06-08-2007, 10:31 PM
My advice is to go to a school near where you want to work. For instance, if you want to work at Pixar or ILM, look into the Academy of Art. While the school is pretty similar to any other art school these days, it is located right by both companies and they check these schools more frequently for internship candidates. It's much easier for a company to find your reel and say "Hey can you come in tomorrow for a quick interview since you live so close" than it is for them to see your reel and call you to schedule a time where they can fly you in for an interview.

The more time that passes, the more the CG industry is becoming a clone of the "hollywood" film industry. It's a lot about who you know. If you live in an area around where you hope to work, it's much easier to meet someone that may be able to help you out. Even if they can suggest an address to send your reel to, or they have a friend who'd look at it for you and give you feedback...it's something. It's like they say with film, if you want to work in the industry, your chances of making it are infinitely improved if you move to LA. If you want to be an animator, definitely look at the Academy of Art and work your butt off to get into the "Pixar Animation" courses they offer. You'll be studying directly under Pixar employees who can teach you a whole lot more than some random person in the middle of nowhere whose animation teaching credentials are based on the fact that they were an in-between artist at an animation company for 2 years in 1985.

Well, there's my 35 cents.

mummey
06-09-2007, 01:29 PM
blufftone: That being said. The proximity to a studio is meaningless if the school has a bad reputation with the studios in the area.

Shinto
06-10-2007, 03:06 PM
Thanks for reply back..


Thanks blufftone, u have enlighten me some point abt AAU but there are some i puzzle abt. If you said " If you want to be an animator, definitely look at the Academy of Art and work your butt off to get into the "Pixar Animation" courses they offer. " Why AAU rank 2nd in 3D World Mag?.. Talk abt RSAD, they rank 1st in 3D World Mag, isn't they got more chances than AAU?.. Could you enlighten me what is the Pro n Con abt this 2 sch?.. Btw may i know is there Pixar Animation Courses ?..


Thanks

blufftone
06-11-2007, 05:38 PM
Thanks for reply back..


Thanks blufftone, u have enlighten me some point abt AAU but there are some i puzzle abt. If you said " If you want to be an animator, definitely look at the Academy of Art and work your butt off to get into the "Pixar Animation" courses they offer. " Why AAU rank 2nd in 3D World Mag?.. Talk abt RSAD, they rank 1st in 3D World Mag, isn't they got more chances than AAU?.. Could you enlighten me what is the Pro n Con abt this 2 sch?.. Btw may i know is there Pixar Animation Courses ?..


Thanks

In my opinion, AAU is pretty much the same as most other 3d art schools. At the end of the day what they want is a paycheck. There are very few schools out there that actually care about the students (probably the one that cares the most is the animation mentor online program -- started by former pixar guys). The reason I reccommend the AAU for animation is solely because of the "Pixar Animation" classes (levels 1-3). These classes were created and are taught by working Pixar employees. It's an unparalleled way to get one-on-one critiques from people who know what they're talking about and are among the top animators in the world. Plus, if you impress them, you have a better chance at getting the summer pixar internship. I've known 4 people who've gotten into the internship by going to the academy and they're all either now full time at Pixar or are down at Disney (the NEW disney). The catch is though that a lot of people try hard to get into the pixar animation classes when they're at the academy (you have to submit a portfolio), but if you work your tail off and can get in then you'll be animating alongside some of the best student animators around. It's a great environment because everyone is trying to push themselves every week to put in more time/effort than everyone else so by the end of the course you end up an exponentially better animator if you try hard.

In the past, the pixar internship has taken a preference to AAU students because it's so close to the studio and because the employees teach the classes and have a real first person view of new and upcoming talent. As the years progress, they're starting to look abroad more (ringling and cal arts), but I think AAU will still have an advantage for awhile because of the pixar classes. So that's why I mention the whole "proximity effect" when choosing schools. If you don't want to move away from the area you live now for a school though, I'd highly recommend the online animation mentor program. The student work that is coming out of that place is fantastic. They're based out of the Bay Area as well so a lot of guys from pixar teach there too.

Hope this helps!

sephfire
06-12-2007, 02:09 PM
I've been struggling to find the right school lately. I have a BA from the University of Georgia, but they lack a full animation program, so I could only take whatever classes they could give me. I've got a reel and I've been trying to break in to the game industry as a junior animator for the last few months with no luck. I'll be hitting Siggraph hard for a job, but if that falls through, I plan to get additional education and a more focused degree. However, trying to choose a school has my head spinning. For every good thing I hear about a school, I hear two bad things. I don't even know if it's better to enter an animation program or a more general video game art/design program.

My reel, for reference:
http://www.sephfire.com/3d/reel_lores.mov

For a dedicated student who is determined to break into the "animator for games" field, what schools do you guys think would best equip me to find a job?

Littleberu
06-12-2007, 03:02 PM
There's three things wrong with your reel :

It has offensive material (curse words beeped is still offensive), is too long, and does not show enough of your overall animations technique mastering (body mechanics, acting, etc...)

The long speech about carbs and diet is very funny and all, but it's no way a good showcase piece.

OH, and if you're looking for a school while still looking for a job, I suggest you Animationmentor.com. It's not for everyone of course, but the quality of the program they give is pretty frigging amazing. It all depends on the time/money/will you have. Obviously, I did not have one of the three (time), but if it's not a constraint to you, go ahead.

sephfire
06-12-2007, 04:59 PM
Thanks for those tips. I was concerned about some of those issues, myself. Future revisions will hopefully fix some of the problems.

Some of the schools I've spoken to have suggested that I enter as "Video Game Art + Design" programs rather than straight "Animation" given my desire to work in the game developing industry. I've been unsure whether or not that is actually the wisest decision. I know game animators may need to diversify their talents a bit, but I would still think developing my animations skills would be more important. I just don't know.

Are there any schools that are particularly renowned for cranking out great game animators?

edit:
That's helpful to know, thank you!

Littleberu
06-12-2007, 05:03 PM
What's a great game animator?

It's a great animator. That's it. If you go into the game industry, you'll need to animate, rig and probably model your own character. A "Video Game Art + Design" might teach you all those things, but will also teach you design and programming, and you'll probably end up doing some half-assed learning there, due to all those things you'll need to learn.

You'll be better focussing on Animation itself. You'll have no problem to be hired if you are an amazing animator and a sub-par modeler/rigger in the game industry. It's growing bigger and bigger every year, and specialization is still the key to be able to survive.

Elmdorz
06-13-2007, 05:08 AM
what would you recommend for those who wish to become Environment Artist? Some say 3d school others even suggest architectural design of some sort.

jeandenis
10-02-2007, 08:48 PM
I can only second that. Try Animationmentor.com or the Pixar classes at the AAU. Whoever is saying that the AAU is not a good animation school hasn't been there.
But where ever you go, you have to work your butt off. Don't expect a school or teacher to magically make you a better animator.

DimensionalPunk
10-02-2007, 09:01 PM
I recommend a four year university where you can get a BFA. Two years fine arts and two years software.

frodo2975
10-15-2007, 02:29 AM
Currently I'm a senior in high school looking at University of Southern California and University of Central Florida. I looked at fullsail, but I didn't really like the pace of the program and they didn't have much in the way of campus life (no dorms, band, etc).

Anyone here whos a graduate/ is currently attending / knows about either of these schools?

PS- I've read the entire thread so far.

trence5
04-07-2008, 04:08 PM
any one here have care give us some feedback on Art Academy of San Francisco, like how was it and what is the tutition?




thanx alot

JesseGraffam
04-07-2008, 05:37 PM
^It's the best of the AAU's. There are better schools to consider, though. Try Cal Art, Ringling, SCAD, RISD, etc...

I'll be honest. I've never held the AAU's in high regard. Living in SF I see their commercials on the tele all the time, and they are terrible. Right on par with a low budget ITT Tech, or DeVry commercial.

One good thing about going to school in SF or LA is the contacts you'll make out here. California is the industry's home base.

trence5
04-10-2008, 06:27 PM
^It's the best of the AAU's. There are better schools to consider, though. Try Cal Art, Ringling, SCAD, RISD, etc...

I'll be honest. I've never held the AAU's in high regard. Living in SF I see their commercials on the tele all the time, and they are terrible. Right on par with a low budget ITT Tech, or DeVry commercial.

One good thing about going to school in SF or LA is the contacts you'll make out here. California is the industry's home base.Ok I just went to Cal Art's website and so far I didn't see anything related to animation. Do they even have courses in that?

Matt Leishman
04-10-2008, 08:29 PM
Ok I just went to Cal Art's website and so far I didn't see anything related to animation. Do they even have courses in that?

http://www.calarts.edu/filmvideo/programs/characteranimation

JesseGraffam
04-10-2008, 08:34 PM
It's part of their film and video dept. They supposedly have one of the best animation schools in the country. Keep in mind that Cal Arts is really tough to get into. You'll need a strong portfolio to get accepted.

mjolnir
04-12-2008, 01:44 AM
great thread

MacManiax
04-12-2008, 08:01 PM
guys trust me, Full Sail has brought its game way up. Great teachers, very impressive facilities with the latest equipment, I don't see how any place could have much better hardware. Maya, Shake, Final Cut, Mental Ray, Photoshop, SynthEyes, and After Effects are just a few of the programs you get to know. They have also expanded the traditional segment. Sorry, just tired of all the bad rep fullsail gets. I truly feel that i learned a crap load there.

JesseGraffam
04-12-2008, 11:47 PM
I don't think I've heard people complain much about the facility at full sail. Most people are upset with the quality of the professors.

ChadForeman
04-13-2008, 02:55 AM
Hi everyone.
Thank you all so much for your input and guidance. I too am on the quest for the best animation school for me. It seems everybody has different circumstances and different needs for their education. One person mentioned they were looking for a more collegiate experience with dorms and band, others a more intensive program.

I am a 34 year-old student who finished my Associates in Communications Technology at the community college. I know that i want to do CG. Now I am in the hard phase of choosing a school. There are so many factors to consider, it can be overwhelming at times.

Full Sail was my first choice and their program really appeals to me: 21 months of full-on training with the necessary courses. I am glad somebody here gave them props. I like the looks of their program but the $60,000 (+ $20,000 living expenses) price tag scares me. At 34 I am footing the bill myself. I know I have natural, artistic talent and am a hard worker, but that size of loan is intimidating.

Gnomon looks even more impressive to me. I really like the style of their campus (as viewed online, never been there) Same 21-month, intense program with necessary skills and $20,000 less in price. Plus that puts you in the heart of the CG scene. The down side? No BFA. I feel this could possibly hurt.

The thought of spending another 2 years sitting through non-CG-specific electives from a State school makes me feel like I'd be spinning my wheels and using up my Pell Grant.

I have applied to SCAD and am awaiting news on scholarships after submitting my portfolio. It's nice to see some props to SCAD on here. $26,000/ year + living expenses. I don't know how many of my classes will transfer or how much time I'll need to spend there.

I talked on the phone with a guy from the DAVE School. He was really nice but of course 'their program was the best on the East Coast' and he has people leaving SCAD and Full Sail to go to DAVE School. $43,000 and no BFA, but the 'reputation of the Dave School.'

The bottom line. I know I have to pay to play, but crunching dollar figures this high can be a bit staggering, especially after I read that 'permanent post' about cg jobs starting off at $12 an hour.

I'm willing to do what I need to do to make it happen, but after living on a raft guide's salary for the past 11 years I am a bit perplexed.

If you've read this far thanks for your interest. Extra Special Thanks if you care to share any thoughts or advice on this dillema.

Thanks again.

-Chad

MacManiax
04-13-2008, 04:39 PM
Fullsail was great for me, but now at 60K plus living expenses it would probably be my last option(exleast they give you a free macbook pro with software). I've heard good things about Gnomon and know some talented SCAD graduates who had no complaints. I don't think the lack of Bachelors would hurt you in the CG world if an emplyer saw that you went to gnomon (demo/portfolio matters more), maybe if you wanted a teaching position a degree would help. I think you could learn a lot at all these places, just depends on how much you want to pay and which one is the most convienient.

ChadForeman
04-13-2008, 05:31 PM
Extra Special Thanks for the reply, Jerry.

Yes it's a big decision. I appreciate your input. It's encouraging to hear you say that going without the bachelors could fly with a Gnomon education. That place just looks awesome. I don't have any interest in teaching (maybe when I'm in my 70's, old and gray and 'been there, done that' ) I just want to get creative and make cool art.

When did you go to Full Sail? I've noticed the price go up over the past couple years when I first took interest.

I'll need to wait a reply from SCAD as well as Columbus College of Art and Design to refine my search and get a bit more focus.

TomCatania
05-22-2008, 02:46 PM
When did you go to Full Sail? I've noticed the price go up over the past couple years when I first took interest.


I'll speak for him as a recent graduate (last month) from the Computer Animation program. I'm one of the first to graduate with a Bachelors. I'll admit, with no prior real 3d training and being that I started at Full Sail at a young age (18) it was difficult for me to keep up during the first 6-7 months of the program. I had many classmates who had prior college experiences and I came out fresh from highschool. Obviously this isn't the case for you. I wasn't driven to stay up all hours and get my schoolwork done like these other students. However, I matured a bit after a few flops and ended up doing very well there. Once you learn the ropes, stop adding your original creative touches to your projects and stick to the strict guidelines set by the teachers, you do so much better.

Full Sail is a fantastic school if you're interested in getting your hand in a little of everything very quickly. I was a slow learner and desired longer classes (most last a month) so it was dificult for me to keep up at first. Once I adapted to their style of classes, it was very easy. It's been turning out some fantastic demo reels lately, and I was lucky enough to be one of the ones that was shown on the giant jumbotron they have inbetween their campus. The campus almost always looks great. Full Sail is really cleaning up the Winter Park area, picking up new buildings every few months and improving their looks, along with UCF just down the road.

Hope this helped, Chad. Good luck!

ChadForeman
05-23-2008, 07:17 AM
Yo Tom!
Thanks for the reply. That was nice of you to take the time to respond. Congratulations on getting your Bachelors Degree from Full Sail. It sounds like you had quite an experience.

How do you like their job placement program? That was one of their big selling points, something they were really pushing in the phone interviews. Do you have a job already? I am looking forward to seeing your demo reel and how you have applied their lessons.

I have finally chosen "Shawnee State University" in Portsmouth, Ohio. I doubt if anybody here has even heard of that school. There were many reasons to choose that school. #1, It's a state-suported school. The thought of an $80,000 loan debt for school is overwhelming to me. I just can't do it right now.

#2, Shawnee offers a BFA with a 3D animation program and they teach Maya there! Their program is very new, only a few years old. One of their recent graduates got a job at ILM. So there is some credibility in their education.

#3 they have good hardware as well and are getting a "motion-capture" rig. They're all Apple and I know Full Sail is too. That's not the biggest deciding factor, I just love Apple.

I have been communicating with Brian from the Gnomon school about getting accepted to go there and in the mean time I am working on my traditional art portfolio and will work towards the BFA. I only have 4 semesters to go so I might as well knock it out and in the mean time work towards getting accepted to Gnomon.

So check out this plan. I am going to go to Shawnee State and order the videos from Gnomon!!! (I didn't even know those videos were available until I read it on this web site) Then I can get the Gnomon training while working towards the BFA and I can apply what I learn from the videos in school. After I graduate, I might be able to get a job or in to Gnomon. We'll see then.

cdmcg
06-02-2008, 02:25 AM
Full Sail actually only has two mac labs. The other 5 labs are pc labs. Although we get macbooks, it is running leopard so you can easily put windows on it. Infact my macbook only has maybe 10 gigs of my harddrive for mac and the rest is partitioned for windows. Im only 6 months into full sail and everything except for one class(classes change every month) was in the pc labs. Infact they are dropping shake from the curiculium because apple is ending windows support for shake. But so far i can say full sail is a amazing school and I am 100% satisfied with my choice to come here. Right before i came here i started getting a lot of doubt because i was feeding into the BS about the school online. Glad i looked past it though.

SanjayChand
06-02-2008, 02:43 AM
Yo Tom!
Thanks for the reply. That was nice of you to take the time to respond. Congratulations on getting your Bachelors Degree from Full Sail. It sounds like you had quite an experience.

How do you like their job placement program? That was one of their big selling points, something they were really pushing in the phone interviews. Do you have a job already? I am looking forward to seeing your demo reel and how you have applied their lessons.

I have finally chosen "Shawnee State University" in Portsmouth, Ohio. I doubt if anybody here has even heard of that school. There were many reasons to choose that school. #1, It's a state-suported school. The thought of an $80,000 loan debt for school is overwhelming to me. I just can't do it right now.

#2, Shawnee offers a BFA with a 3D animation program and they teach Maya there! Their program is very new, only a few years old. One of their recent graduates got a job at ILM. So there is some credibility in their education.

#3 they have good hardware as well and are getting a "motion-capture" rig. They're all Apple and I know Full Sail is too. That's not the biggest deciding factor, I just love Apple.

I have been communicating with Brian from the Gnomon school about getting accepted to go there and in the mean time I am working on my traditional art portfolio and will work towards the BFA. I only have 4 semesters to go so I might as well knock it out and in the mean time work towards getting accepted to Gnomon.

So check out this plan. I am going to go to Shawnee State and order the videos from Gnomon!!! (I didn't even know those videos were available until I read it on this web site) Then I can get the Gnomon training while working towards the BFA and I can apply what I learn from the videos in school. After I graduate, I might be able to get a job or in to Gnomon. We'll see then.
Thats a pretty good game plan. I personally worked towards a BA in Studio Art and then attended Gnomon afterwards.

ChadForeman
06-02-2008, 03:08 AM
Hi Carey.

Thank you for your reply to my post. That's great to hear that you are enjoying the Full Sail program so much. That's interesting to learn about no more Windows support for Shake. I don't blame Apple. Microsoft doesn't like to play with anybody else so why should Apple go through the trouble of writing software for Vista.

Thanks for the tips on the Mac labs. What a shame. It's too bad you have to partition your hard drive in order to run Windows software on a Leopard. Does that mean that Full Sail's curriculum will be teaching After Effects or is there another industry-grade compositing software?

I have to be up front with one issue on my mind that I haven't been able to wrap my head around: the cost. How does somebody shoulder a $66,613 education? (not including living expenses, and I know Orlando is not cheap.) I've done plenty of research. An apartment averages $650/month + food, gas and entertainment. We'll say about $1000 per month living expenses because you skimp on entertainment. 21 months x $1000 = $21,000. Total cost of education = $87,613.

My mortgage is a 30-year loan on a house for $42,000.(I live in West Virginia, so housing can be cheap) So for this scenario my house is approximately half the price of the education(with a little to account for a cheaper interest rate on the school loan or whatever). I pay $375 for my mortgage meaning a Full Sail graduate would be paying approximately twice that: $750/month for 30 years+.

Now, according to the sticky-post about "the unofficial truth of the industry" the moderator of this forum says that most people start out at $12/ hour in a studio in LA. LA can't be cheaper than Orlando, so how is it possible to make ends meet?

I've seen many 'kids' on here who went (or are going) to Full Sail. (I'm aloud to say kid since I'm 34 and some of these people are 18-20) I believe it's safe to assume their parents are footing the bill. Good for them. Way to take advantage of their resources. If I was 18 and had parents that said "Where do you want to go to school?" No doubt I'd be headed straight to Full Sail.

However, I notice you have a 1-year-old son. That must make the cost an extreme burden. I also notice you are from Ireland. I realize that the Euro (I think you guys are on the Euro, I'm not entirely current) goes much further than the dollar, but how do you do it? If that's a personal question that you don't feel comfortable answering, you don't have to answer and I totaly understand.

I just can't figure this out. I received the "Full Sail by the numbers" and see how they addded up the costs, but they can stack the numbers in their favor.

ChadForeman
06-02-2008, 03:19 AM
Thats a pretty good game plan. I personally worked towards a BA in Studio Art and then attended Gnomon afterwards.

Hi Sanjay.

Thanks for the reply. Good to hear you like my plan, especially since you graduated from Gnomon.

Nice portfolio! That is some impressive work.

How is it going working as a freelance artist? Are you staying busy working?

trence5
06-02-2008, 03:09 PM
(I'm aloud to say kid since I'm 34 and some of these people are 18-20) I believe it's safe to assume their parents are footing the bill. Good for them. Way to take advantage of their resources. If I was 18 and had parents that said "Where do you want to go to school?" No doubt I'd be headed straight to Full Sail.



I just can't figure this out. I received the "Full Sail by the numbers" and see how they addded up the costs, but they can stack the numbers in their favor.:beer: Wow, I'm not the only 30 something on here!! Sorry just had to get that outta my system. So are you planning to pursue doing 3D yourself? Yeah, I keep getting stuff from Full Sail in the mail too, and was juuuuusssst about to call them and ask how much was their tuition:D , but now that I've seen what the total possible cost is (FL standard of living is wee bit higher than others) you guys may have just saved me some time.

trence5
06-02-2008, 03:16 PM
Thats a pretty good game plan. I personally worked towards a BA in Studio Art and then attended Gnomon afterwards.Yeah, that guy got a helluva game plan. Say did you go to the actually Gnomon school or did you attend the online courses?

I kinda, sorta have a game plan myself, (don't spare my feelings folks, I need to know if this is a worth while idea!); attend a web design training program and become Adobe certified, if they have it, since I already have some graphic design courses under my belt; work as a web design/graphic designer while I use Gnomon's training videos.



hows that sound:hmm: ?

cdmcg
06-02-2008, 03:33 PM
My schooling and most of my housing cost is from student loans. My wife helps a lot working full time and all. But my schooling is all student loans and when i graduate, where ever i end up ill just have to work extra hard to keep my payments up to date. The cost really pushed me away at first. But i decided to just jump in head first and see what happened. As for what they are going to use for compositing class ill have to ask my teacher in class. They had told us before but it has slipped my mind. I think it was after effects but ill ask again. Oh and I moved to the states when i was very young. I still keep the irish tag because its were im originally from. Also you were talking about the cost of living in la as example. One thing a lot of people dont think about is going to europe right out of school. They are really trying to get the market booming there and a few people i know who just graduated from full sail are heading overe there this fall to work. They already have jobs lined up and now are just tieing up things here state side.

SanjayChand
06-02-2008, 09:19 PM
Hi Sanjay.

Thanks for the reply. Good to hear you like my plan, especially since you graduated from Gnomon.

Nice portfolio! That is some impressive work.

How is it going working as a freelance artist? Are you staying busy working?
Thanks man!

Things are going pretty good. Ive been working continuously since January (I graduated in December), sans one week I took-off between jobs.

SanjayChand
06-02-2008, 09:21 PM
Yeah, that guy got a helluva game plan. Say did you go to the actually Gnomon school or did you attend the online courses?

I kinda, sorta have a game plan myself, (don't spare my feelings folks, I need to know if this is a worth while idea!); attend a web design training program and become Adobe certified, if they have it, since I already have some graphic design courses under my belt; work as a web design/graphic designer while I use Gnomon's training videos.



hows that sound:hmm: ?
I attended Gnomon.

Whats is your goal? Do you want to work as a 3D artist in vfx/games?

If so, then I would not bother with web-design training program or any adobe certification (although the design aesthetitic will carry over to CG). Id otherwise spend a few years taking traditional art courses (as well as stuff like graphic design), and then enrolling in a CG school.

ChadForeman
06-03-2008, 01:16 AM
My schooling and most of my housing cost is from student loans. My wife helps a lot working full time and all. But my schooling is all student loans and when i graduate, where ever i end up ill just have to work extra hard to keep my payments up to date. The cost really pushed me away at first. But i decided to just jump in head first and see what happened. As for what they are going to use for compositing class ill have to ask my teacher in class. They had told us before but it has slipped my mind. I think it was after effects but ill ask again. Oh and I moved to the states when i was very young. I still keep the irish tag because its were im originally from. Also you were talking about the cost of living in la as example. One thing a lot of people dont think about is going to europe right out of school. They are really trying to get the market booming there and a few people i know who just graduated from full sail are heading overe there this fall to work. They already have jobs lined up and now are just tieing up things here state side.

Yo. I gotta give you some big-time props for taking the plunge. That is hard-core, bad to the bone. No fear for sure. I need to say that is the biggest boost I've seen for Full Sail. That is really interesting about the European market. Good luck to you and I hope you do well. I will try to keep up with your portfolio and demo reel.

trence5
06-03-2008, 05:26 PM
I attended Gnomon.

Whats is your goal? Do you want to work as a 3D artist in vfx/games?

If so, then I would not bother with web-design training program or any adobe certification (although the design aesthetitic will carry over to CG). Id otherwise spend a few years taking traditional art courses (as well as stuff like graphic design), and then enrolling in a CG school.thanx for the advice:wavey: . I want to do modeling, whether it for games or vfx or whatever. Actually I do have some traditional art and graphic design courses under my belt, it just that these days I see alot more asking for graphic designers that have some sort of html language skills as well, especially since most employers want some kind of degree.
I cut my teeth on Cinema 4D and - :hmm: since some here mentioned Europe, how are jobs for Cinema 4D users over there while the subject?

ChadForeman
06-04-2008, 09:12 PM
Thanks man!

Things are going pretty good. Ive been working continuously since January (I graduated in December), sans one week I took-off between jobs.

That's really impressive. And a great plug for Gnomon (as if they needed any more)

ChadForeman
06-04-2008, 09:21 PM
:beer: Wow, I'm not the only 30 something on here!! Sorry just had to get that outta my system. So are you planning to pursue doing 3D yourself? Yeah, I keep getting stuff from Full Sail in the mail too, and was juuuuusssst about to call them and ask how much was their tuition:D , but now that I've seen what the total possible cost is (FL standard of living is wee bit higher than others) you guys may have just saved me some time.

There's a few of us "old timers" floating around. I am just beginning to work on my plan for breaking in to the 3D world. I spend quite a bit of time working on it. It's very challenging to plan for such a change in lifestyle.

Your plan sounds like mine from a few years back. Since I was going back to school after a 13-year break from tests and quizes I was a little intimidated and very hesitant of "The big loan." So I started at the community college with an interest in 2D graphic design and web design.

I haven't had any trouble finding work since finishing my Associates Degree, but 3D is what I want to do. I really do enjoy the web design though and would make that my career choice if I didn't know 3D existed. If you want to get in to web design, you shouldn't focus on an Adobe certification, focus on a W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) certification. That is the committe that makes all of the decisions regarding web-based markup languages. Like Sanjay said, 2D design work is still design work and I can see how it could carry over to3D

I wasn't trying to turn anyboy away from the Full Sail education. Who knows, it might be just the perfect thing for some people.

trence5
06-04-2008, 10:27 PM
There's a few of us "old timers" floating around. I am just beginning to work on my plan for breaking in to the 3D world. I spend quite a bit of time working on it. It's very challenging to plan for such a change in lifestyle.

Your plan sounds like mine from a few years back. Since I was going back to school after a 13-year break from tests and quizes I was a little intimidated and very hesitant of "The big loan." So I started at the community college with an interest in 2D graphic design and web design.

I haven't had any trouble finding work since finishing my Associates Degree, but 3D is what I want to do. I really do enjoy the web design though and would make that my career choice if I didn't know 3D existed. If you want to get in to web design, you shouldn't focus on an Adobe certification, focus on a W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) certification. That is the committe that makes all of the decisions regarding web-based markup languages. Like Sanjay said, 2D design work is still design work and I can see how it could carry over to3D

I wasn't trying to turn anyboy away from the Full Sail education. Who knows, it might be just the perfect thing for some people.:beer: It's funny you should mention the big L word; the only reason I'll have to wait is because - :blush: I let myself get in default - but the good is that if I can get myself out of it so web design or any furthing of my education isn't outta the question. SO I still gotta chance. W3C, huh? Thanx alot for the info; if they offer it I'll look into.

ChadForeman
06-04-2008, 11:15 PM
:beer: It's funny you should mention the big L word; the only reason I'll have to wait is because - :blush: I let myself get in default - but the good is that if I can get myself out of it so web design or any furthing of my education isn't outta the question. SO I still gotta chance. W3C, huh? Thanx alot for the info; if they offer it I'll look into.

Offer it? They want you to learn xhtml. Think about it. These people created the html language and the standards for the web. The classes are free. Basically they are all online tutorials. You don't need any expensive software, just a text editor (that's write, building web pages the old fashioned way) a web browser and an internet connection.

After you complete the tutorials you pay $60 or something like that to take their test. Pass it and you get your W3C certification. Pretty nifty huh?

I enjoyed learning html and it can be a way for you to get yourself out of debt. Did you earn a degree? Where did you attend school?

Go here: http://www.w3schools.com/default.asp

There's more there than anybody could learn in a lifetime.

trence5
06-04-2008, 11:32 PM
Offer it? They want you to learn xhtml. Think about it. These people created the html language and the standards for the web. The classes are free. Basically they are all online tutorials. You don't need any expensive software, just a text editor (that's write, building web pages the old fashioned way) a web browser and an internet connection.

After you complete the tutorials you pay $60 or something like that to take their test. Pass it and you get your W3C certification. Pretty nifty huh?

I enjoyed learning html and it can be a way for you to get yourself out of debt. Did you earn a degree? Where did you attend school?

Go here: http://www.w3schools.com/default.asp

There's more there than anybody could learn in a lifetime.Well, I didn't get a degree but I'm on a payment plan that if I make nine that'll me to do what I need to continue working on one. I original went to Jackson State university back when I was in MS, but the wed design course I'm looking at is in Kansas City, MO at Centriq Training. As for the course I'm looking into; they have courses in Flash and probably most of the CS3 that's involved with web design. I do have some knowledge of Flash but it's probably changed so much since Adobe took it over who knows.
However THANX ALOT FOR THAT LINK!! $60 bucks?!?! WOW!

ChadForeman
06-05-2008, 01:50 AM
doing web design with CS3 will teach you how to make a mockup in photoshop and then cut it in to slices and put it into Dreamweaver to write the code. Yes, it works, but if you want to really harness the power of web design you should learn to write code. Just my(and many other industry professionals) opinion but it's mostly true. Good luck with that.

trence5
06-05-2008, 09:42 PM
doing web design with CS3 will teach you how to make a mockup in photoshop and then cut it in to slices and put it into Dreamweaver to write the code. Yes, it works, but if you want to really harness the power of web design you should learn to write code. Just my(and many other industry professionals) opinion but it's mostly true. Good luck with that.:hmm: Thanx!

ArticSpider
06-06-2008, 04:32 PM
I am currently going to the Academy of Art, and it's been just ok for me. I have heard rumors about the faculty being good or bad. I have heard some students make it far while some are still struggling...basically the typical statistics from virtually every art school.

I like AAU's curriculum, it's something I can see myself doing, but recently I actually got admitted to USC's animation and visual effects program which admits only like 15 to 17 students a year or something like that. Alumnis tell me USC is one of the top ranking film schools in the country, how difficult it is to even get admitted, but the thing that has me hesistant, is how good is their animation program?

I am interested in animating movies like for Pixar, Disney, Dreamworks or making animated video games, modeling, or character animation...game design and production are all also possiblities I am starting to consider.

If it's the same all other art schools, I mind as well stick with AAU since I'm living near it and it's more convenient living wise. But then again does USC have a higher reputation? Do they have better recommendation and resources to get students hired? Would it look better on my resume that I graduated from USC instead of AAU if my portfolio is good but lacking a bit?

Please anyone who has insight if they could assist me with this decision ASAP. USC or AAU? And please don't say school doesn't matter it's the person's persistence because I know this already, but even the most successful artist needs resources and help to learn. I just need to know where will give me the best advantage.

SanjayChand
06-06-2008, 05:01 PM
Sorry man, I know that USC has a good film school but I dont know jack squat about their animation/vfx program other than a few teachers from Gnomon also teach/taught at USC.

ArticSpider
06-06-2008, 05:16 PM
Thanks for the reply. So then in your experience you would say that you don't know many professionals in your field who came from USC? How about Academy of Art? I'm not too keen on other schools besides the 2 because it's just over my head to figure out costs, curriculum, etc. So I'm down to these last 2. Anyone else have any other advice?

Kylen
06-06-2008, 05:22 PM
Great thread guys.
I recently was accepted into the MFA program at SCAD for Interactive Design and Game Development with a honorary fellowship (is it just me or does everyone get one of those?). I was wondering if anyone here has first hand experience with the professors at SCAD under that program. My main fear is arriving at school where none of the prof's have a good grasp or proven professional experience on the topics they teach.

I obtained my undergrad degree at RIT where I saw many professors that didn't belong in the teaching world and many fellow students suffered because of that.

I am most interested in developing art assets for games but also am interested in gaining a general expertise in 3D skills so that I am not solely locked into the game development industry. Digital sculpting is where I really want to focus most of my efforts. After graduating undergrad I have been studying figure drawing from a master artisan in Boston for a year and am ready apply my traditional training to bring my 3D work to the next level. Any input is greatly appreciated.


Thanks!

FrizzleFry0
06-22-2008, 12:57 AM
Hey guys, I just popped into this thread from the CGWiki and noticed that there have been quite a few questions about Full Sail. I am a graduate from July of 2005 and have been working there for about 2 and a half years in the Computer Animation Department, 4 months in CAP (Computer Animation Production - the class equivelent of where students would work on their assets for their portfolio and demo reel), 4 months in CSF (Compositing and Scene Finishing), and just shy of 2 years in DRC (Demo Reel Creation).

First off, Full Sail is quite remarkable due to the extremely proactive way it grows and offers the best technology to its students. When I initially took the tour to view the campus in 2001 it was all located in just 2 glass buildings and one production building across the street where they held shows and events.

Since then, the size has easily tripled, maybe more. The different degree programs are all seperated for the most part into different buildings. Computer Animation, for example, has its own building located in a new parking lot area they took over as they've been expanding. This is where students typically will be doing all their lab time.

From the outside all the labs look relatively similar. Each student has his/her own pod they work at for the month. There are 4 labs with PC's, 2 labs with Macs, and 1 lab that has a mix of both. There are also 3 seperate traditional art studios in the same building where people work on figure drawing, object perspective, 2D animation, maquette building, and preproduction for their final projects.

All students have an ID pass that lets them in and out of the buildings. Aside from a few holidays, they can usually always get in the labs and work regardless of what time of the day/night it is.

As many of you have already found out, the cost can be pretty steep - probably close to 90k after living expenses are added in. When you're dumping a lot money and time (21 months) you want to make sure that you're making the right decision. I can tell you right now that Full Sail is a very fast-paced school. This may not be the best option for some of you if you need to dedicate part of your time to something else or feel that maybe you have a slow learning curve. You need to be an extremely hard working individual that knows exactly what you want to get out of college.

From working in the last class of the program for so long, I get to see how the students have changed at the end of the program and what they want to do after college. The quality of work has jumped tremendously in just the past year. But like any college, what you get out of it, is what you put into it. We have people that just float by the classes, getting C's nearly the whole way through the program. These are usually the students that didn't ask for help and want the world handed to them on a plate. However, the majority of the students are very proactive and are constantly getting help and critiques from the faculty. Taking the extra hours every week to make yourself a better artist shows and ultimately makes a large difference on your attitude, professionalism, work ethic, and artistic ability.

When I started going here as a student I hadn't used any 3D application, so I was concerned that I would fall behind those that already had previous experience. For the first few months it was a little rough, but it evens out within the first 4 months of using Maya and becoming comfortable with its interface.

Full Sail prides itself as always being "on the cutting edge of technology," which I'm sure most of you know if you've already got their brochures. Usually about 4 times a year the IT department will completely re-image the machines with new software and update. The latest versions of Maya will probably only be released for a few weeks before we've already got it installed on all the machines. The same thing goes for all it's other packages like the Adobe suite and Nuke. Apple Shake is no longer being used because of the lack of Windows support and having no future versions released. Nuke is currently in the process of replacing it in our compositing class.

For the last 3 to 4 months students will be working on their final assets they wish to use in their demo reel where they're critiqued, have weekly meetings with instructors, and continue to polish them. For the past year the students have been only working on film-oriented assets; this will be changing very soon because the Computer Animation department is expanding and will be splitting to give students the chance to specialize in Game Art. I am not 100% sure how that side of the program works yet, but from what I understand they are directly involved with the Unreal 3 engine and also have ties to the Game Devolopment program. So, I would imagine that students will be coming out with a lot of game engine knowledge, level design, and optimization for games (LOD's, normal maps, ZBrushing detail used on low-poly models, etc....).

I am 100% happy with my education from Full Sail and what the school offers to its students. It has come a long way and I don't see the expansions and improvements stopping any time soon. Hopefully this has answered some questions and offered a bit more of an inside view as to what is going on. Usually the brochures that Full Sail hands out are loaded with tons of eye candy, so I'm trying to give you all the most realistic and honest opinion possible.

The reason I feel Full Sail is valuable is that you will have so much technology at your disposal, tons of "open lab" time to work, and an accelerated program that gears you for a past-paced industry. Other schools that I've been pretty impressed with so far are Gnomon and the Vancouver Film School. Those guys are always producing some amazing work as well. Please check them out too if you already haven't.

You can really push your limits as an artist at nearly any school, so in my opinion the most valuable thing you can do for yourself is to take a step back and analyze yourself as an artist and person. Do you work hard? Do you want to constantly challenge yourself to be the best artist possible? How much do you want to contribute to the art community?

If any of you have more questions specific to Full Sail I will do my best to answer them in more detail. Thanks and good luck! :buttrock:

JamesArndt
06-22-2008, 05:34 AM
Hi...thought I would chime in a little. Jared (the post just before mine) was actually a teacher of mine probably less than 9 months ago. Since my graduation in Aug. 07 I have been directly employed. I started at DXD FX doing motion graphics work...I was fully able to model, texture, rig and animate...not to mention light and optimize Mental Ray renders. All this was required for the position I worked for. After my in-house freelance work with DXD I was hired on down here in FL...full time staff with Firebrand Games. We are currently working on Nintendo DS and Wii titles...and a triple A title franchise right now that finally reached alpha.

My point being, I have filled quite a few roles across several disciplines in a very short time. I have Full Sail to thank for all of the technical knowledge I would ever need. I came into Full Sail with a decent fine art background.....that foundation, I believe one needs that before getting into the technical aspects of 3d applications. Full Sail is not a school you can come into unsure about what you want to do with your life...or unsure if you are willing to put your all into it. If you come into it with the will/passion, they will provide 110% of the rest you need...all the lab time you ever wanted, all the latest gear and software and knowledgeable staff to help you get through it all. In the end it's really up to you.

jtp
07-02-2008, 09:46 PM
WHAT ABOUT CAL-Arts-- GOOD SCHOOL,:twisted: BAD School? Im planning to get my MFA there I have my BFA at UNCG a Liberal Arts College in Graphic Design. The Move is Intimidating but it seems like a good move because their is not to many options on the East Coast. Im 27 years old and Im learning on my own but want more.

borroriow
07-15-2008, 05:40 AM
Hi, I have a question about these schools, I'm 20 and attending the third year of college, at the end of the course, I will be 22, will I be to old to go to such places as Ringling?
Does anybody knows what is the average age of the students?

ShekemUrShekem
07-15-2008, 08:27 AM
Offer it? They want you to learn xhtml. Think about it. These people created the html language and the standards for the web. The classes are free. Basically they are all online tutorials. You don't need any expensive software, just a text editor (that's write, building web pages the old fashioned way) a web browser and an internet connection.

After you complete the tutorials you pay $60 or something like that to take their test. Pass it and you get your W3C certification. Pretty nifty huh?

I enjoyed learning html and it can be a way for you to get yourself out of debt. Did you earn a degree? Where did you attend school?

Go here: http://www.w3schools.com/default.asp

There's more there than anybody could learn in a lifetime.

I myself am 35, have as associate's degree in criminal justice for the practicality of it, and I do this 2d/3d stuff as well as screenwriting. All sorts of irons in the fire. I've done the whole web design thing but I am the vision and the creativity, not the coder. If anyody thinks people make websites via windows notepad, they are dreaming. There's a big time limit to what you can accomplish in that useless and archaic fashion- and there's functionality available via extensions for deamweaver cs3 that you'd never be able to mimic on your own, no matter how much education you had. Never once have I seen an employer ask to see you hand code a 20 page site using notepad..."just cuz." It'll never happen. You'd be looked at like the guy who only listens to sinatra records because 'they don't make real music today'.
They don't care if you can do that junk. You'll be working with wysiwyg all day long where 90% is automated and you put in your 10% and you're done. That's what advancements in technology are about: making the use of notepad to code html pages a faded nightmare best forgotten.

I looked at all the relevant schools and decided to save myself 90 grand and go right into freelancing. Don't forget one thing here...all that stuff you learn fades, and if you're 2 years out of the classrooms without constant work, you are not going to be the same caliber artist you were at the top of your game sitting through hours long instruction sessions daily. Also, as new software comes out, dies off, is bought by autodesk and assimilated, or changed radically, you must kep your certificatons/knowledge current or you just wasted 90,000 and 2+ yrs. If you're not working in the 1st year out of these mega-schools, you better start geting nervous because there's a good chance you're looking at a different career, but now nearly owing 100 grand. Do not enter into this lightly if you're 30+; taking the plunge suddenly seems a poor decision once you get dragged down by the undercurrents of no work and a 10 year loan repayment plan at $1000/month.

Make sure you know what you're doing. If you're 18 or 24 whatever, do what you want, you have a lot of time to decide. 30+? Not so much, and a very strangely hushed up fact in the cg/game industry that those IN the industry that post here should have mentioned is the very real existence of age bias. Unless you've got insane skills you need to be aware that the studios are going to read your resume, see you're 34 years old just starting out, and move on to the next rel from the guy who is 21 and just as good or better...but younger. The same unwritten rule goes in hollywood as concerns screenwriters. The rule is never tell them your age in the cover letter unless you're under 30. Doing so might get your script tossed immediately by some lame assistant reader who is 21 himself.

Adobe certs are simple but every updated release of the product you need to get recertified within 90 days I think, or say goodbye to your cert. Recert to be done at the nearest test center- which may be 3 hours away. At 30+ I'd say you stand a much, much better chance sticking with either broadcast visual fx, 2d adobe stuff, and the web stuff. These are things you will easily be able to find work in as opposed to something so specialized as 3d modeling and/or animation, both of which are younger mens' games.

JamesArndt
07-15-2008, 01:11 PM
I myself started out at age 28. I haven't had any issues, nor anyone ask my age yet at any interview. I have yet to volunteer that info really on a resume and such either. I have found at least in the gaming industry a wide range of ages....normally the range I have worked with are in their mid to late 20's....30 somethings are not unheard of in art positions either, but are usually senior or lead artists. This information aside it is never too late to start doing what you love or to change careers if your current one is not making you happy or filling your creative needs. I do remote freelance also and not a soul cares or asks your age...it's just not what their concerned with. They want to know if you can deliver what you promise, up to the quality level they need and on time....that's it flat out.

I also read in a response about the cost of student loan repayment and I have to agree that is an issue that should really be heavily taken into consideration. One of the biggest things I have witnessed causing artists to be broke between paychecks is the drain of huge student loan payments. If you have some kind of assistance such as grants, scholarships or military benefits (which I used myself)....then I would definitely invest on going to school and getting that experience. If you don't have assistance and would rely 100% on student loans and small grants, I would take the time to reconsider a cheaper alternative to getting some base 3d knowledge, such as DVD purchases, tutorials or a community college course....maybe attend a cheaper traditional school locally? The great thing about the education aspect of 3d is more and more traditional schools are creating or developing programs for 3d education. Not so great thing is it's oversaturating the job market with 3d artists...but that's another topic entirely.

Insomniation
07-15-2008, 05:44 PM
I went to Full Sail and with every school there are positives and negatives to the school. A lot of it has already been said...so I'll try not to regurgitate everything. But when I am asked about Full Sail, about if I would recommend it or not...I usually bring up one important thing:

I feel the biggest issue with FS is the school's timeline. It is an extremely fast paced school, a lot quicker than most schools out there. Now this may be a good or bad thing depending on what type of person you are...how quickly you learn, how dedicated you are, how well you handle the lack of sleep...etc.

I will be completely honest here, but I have noticed that more often than not, the fast pace at Full Sail is definately a lot to handle for most of the students that enroll there. This is not the school's fault per-say....but the students are not prepared to be jumping into such a massive and demanding thing. If you attend the school, you gotta live, eat and breath animation (which I hope everyone going to any school does)....and for the most part and for most of the students, they either don't have an advanced enough skill set, or enough dedication or simply enough preparation to make it "successfully" through the entire course and off into the industry.

Unlike some 4 year schools where you spend an ample amount of time on most projects and are always working towards your reel....you're basically doing that within the timespan of two or three months of Full Sail. From the time you enter Full Sail and get out of the first 2 months of general courses and what not....you are then learning something entirely new every single month, new programs, new everything. For that month you focus on that thing, and you have to produce a project for that subject...then the next month, you move on to a new thing. So its really hard to continously focus on always working towards your demo reels. You on really get the last 2 or 3 months to REALLY work on your reel.

Full Sail is definately not for everyone, but if you are really that dedicated and ready to give your all into school....you can learn some great stuff at Full Sail.

And personally, while it took a lot out of me to perform at a high level at Full Sail, it was a good situation for me. I went there right out of high school, I met some amazing people, I got to work with those amazing people and some phenominal artists and most importantly, I got what I needed out of that school. So it definately was the right thing for me.

I still have a lot of work to do as an artist and to become a better animator...but I have a solid foundation to work with. I took a hiatus after school, moving back from Orlando to Seattle...not having a PC...etc...but now I have a rig and I'm right back into it and working on some new stuff. And thankfully that solid foundation is really helping me get back into things full tilt and am looking forward to getting my new reel up and getting out into the industry. (if anyone goes to my website and watches my reel, that is my actual student reel which was completed entirely in my final 4 or so weeks of school)


****

and I must say on a positive note the new class structure at Full Sail is definately WAY improved from when I went there...I'm am definately impressed at what the school is doing to offer a better program...and to be honest, am a little jealous at the new students from when I went to school... ;) :

My class was sadly a giant guini pig project for Full Sail. When I went through the school they were changing all of their courses, their curriculum, etc....and it just so happened that my class had to be the fall boys. They were trying to implement new classes like CAP (computer animation project)...they were setting up their first Bachelor's classes....new animating classes, pre-production classes....the works. So my class ended up getting the short end of the stick...

So all of their misshaps and miscommunication in class structures happened to my class and those prior to me....but I must say, now that I hear more about the current Full Sail and when I talk with people etc, the new Full Sail is definately a great class structure and offers some great things...way better communication...etc. So that is definately exciting.

ArticSpider
07-15-2008, 05:53 PM
Make sure you know what you're doing. If you're 18 or 24 whatever, do what you want, you have a lot of time to decide. 30+? Not so much, and a very strangely hushed up fact in the cg/game industry that those IN the industry that post here should have mentioned is the very real existence of age bias. Unless you've got insane skills you need to be aware that the studios are going to read your resume, see you're 34 years old just starting out, and move on to the next rel from the guy who is 21 and just as good or better...but younger. The same unwritten rule goes in hollywood as concerns screenwriters. The rule is never tell them your age in the cover letter unless you're under 30. Doing so might get your script tossed immediately by some lame assistant reader who is 21 himself.


Why is there an age and gender bias? This is so unfair to those who want to change careers and get into the business just as anybody. I do agree the industry is very bias. Even to women and minorities.
Then where do all the 30+ people go to if they have struggled in their 20 + up career to just try to land some sort of experience but it becomes a mediocre climb of competition with the next or same age folks and they eventually don't qualify for a lot of the lead/senior positions due to many reasons. Eventually those 20 + below kids will age Portfolio can continue to suck if you don't have the proper experienceor opportunities. There are an insane amount of people who want to do this and so many people at your tail to take over your position even if it means taking out the garbage at some of these major studios. No joke.

jtp
07-15-2008, 06:55 PM
:cry: I can sit back and print Golden Corral Labels all day at the print shop or take a shot at what I want!
:surprised I met with Mr. Burke from Pixar and he mentioned its good to have a Graphic Design backbone among (renderman and c-shell ) skills. I'll be 27 taking classes for my MFA in (2009) for three years. If you produce as much as possiable and show skills that companies need your good to go. :thumbsup: Granted if a 78yr old applied no one wants to insure them with there company because how are they going to asure how long their going to be around to work. It usually takes a year to get aquainted with realy large companies. Its all in the world of "Sink or Swim!" or build a boat for a strong foundation to (excuse the cheesey pun and quote) sail across the competition. Inspiration is everywhere just find your vehicle.


ps Im not trying to sound like jerk or hate on 78yr old people just trying to make a point of encouragement.

Afropastepanda
07-16-2008, 02:44 PM
so what is the main difference between private schools ( like Ringling, Full Sail ) and USC or UCLA? I'm considereing either UCLA or USC to pursue VFX...thanks!:thumbsup:

SanjayChand
07-16-2008, 03:12 PM
Hi, I have a question about these schools, I'm 20 and attending the third year of college, at the end of the course, I will be 22, will I be to old to go to such places as Ringling?
Does anybody knows what is the average age of the students?

From what I have been told by Ringling grads and people who attended, it is an excellent school to attend if you want to become an animator. If you want to do anything else such as lighting, then its not.

Ofcourse, anyone can feel free to correct me on that.

Insomniation
07-16-2008, 05:15 PM
From what I have been told by Ringling grads and people who attended, it is an excellent school to attend if you want to become an animator. If you want to do anything else such as lighting, then its not.

Ofcourse, anyone can feel free to correct me on that.

I didn't go to Ringling...went to their rival a few towns over, Full Sail....but with talking to people from Ringling, I have heard the exact same things. Even watching the student work, I seen some really talented animators come out of that school...and not so much the other subjects...

of course I don't know for sure, but I've heard the same things as you Arya....



Quote:
Originally Posted by borroriow
Hi, I have a question about these schools, I'm 20 and attending the third year of college, at the end of the course, I will be 22, will I be to old to go to such places as Ringling?
Does anybody knows what is the average age of the students?



Dude, you are 22....you don't need to worry at all about your age. I went to school when I was 18....and my next closest colleague was 21 & 22....the next closest after them was 25, 27, 29....35...and even 48 and 52.....so I don't think you need to worry at all man ;)

ShekemUrShekem
07-16-2008, 09:29 PM
>>From what I have been told by Ringling grads and people who attended, it is an excellent school to attend if you want to become an animator. If you want to do anything else such as lighting, then its not.<<

If you believe that and your portfilio is full of computer animation only, you will be rejected. If your drawing skills are in the toilet, you won't be accepted either. I just got done talking to them and they said the portfolio must be 'darn good', and showcase your traditional art skills and cg. One person's "not so good" is often based on their ability to do better...as in boris vallejo may believe larry elmore isn't that good, but compared to 99% of the popuation, elmore is a god.

Insomniation
07-16-2008, 10:10 PM
>>From what I have been told by Ringling grads and people who attended, it is an excellent school to attend if you want to become an animator. If you want to do anything else such as lighting, then its not.<<

If you believe that and your portfilio is full of computer animation only, you will be rejected. If your drawing skills are in the toilet, you won't be accepted either. I just got done talking to them and they said the portfolio must be 'darn good', and showcase your traditional art skills and cg. One person's "not so good" is often based on their ability to do better...as in boris vallejo may believe larry elmore isn't that good, but compared to 99% of the popuation, elmore is a god.

what he was stating is that students that graduate from Ringling have said that the school is most proficient at teaching animation and not necessarily as good as bringing students into modelling and lighting, etc. I have also heard this from Ringling students as well since I used to live down there when attending a "rival" school and by looking at graduating class reels.

some schools are better at teaching the modeling pipeline...others animation...others shading & lighting....just so happens, at least from word of mouth / observation, Ringling seems to be leaning more towards animation. That is all he/we were saying.

and of course, that doesn't mean those statements are 100% fact. If Ringling students, alumni or staff want to correct that and go further into the subject, then so be it. This was just being brought up to just add to the subject of different school's pros & cons...etc.

borroriow
07-16-2008, 10:31 PM
I didn't go to Ringling...went to their rival a few towns over, Full Sail....but with talking to people from Ringling, I have heard the exact same things. Even watching the student work, I seen some really talented animators come out of that school...and not so much the other subjects...

of course I don't know for sure, but I've heard the same things as you Arya....



Quote:
Originally Posted by borroriow
Hi, I have a question about these schools, I'm 20 and attending the third year of college, at the end of the course, I will be 22, will I be to old to go to such places as Ringling?
Does anybody knows what is the average age of the students?



Dude, you are 22....you don't need to worry at all about your age. I went to school when I was 18....and my next closest colleague was 21 & 22....the next closest after them was 25, 27, 29....35...and even 48 and 52.....so I don't think you need to worry at all man ;)

Wow, that was relieving to hear, I was afraid to get to those schools and be like four years older than most of the other students.

Insomniation
07-16-2008, 10:56 PM
Wow, that was relieving to hear, I was afraid to get to those schools and be like four years older than most of the other students.

no worries man :)

Fess
07-16-2008, 10:59 PM
It can be awkward sometimes.

I'm 33 and back in school. I relate better to the older students rather than the "outta high school" people.

Since I enrolled, many have dropped due to their priorities......or lack of. WoW :surprised

Insomniation
07-16-2008, 11:14 PM
It can be awkward sometimes.

I'm 33 and back in school. I relate better to the older students rather than the "outta high school" people.

Since I enrolled, many have dropped due to their priorities......or lack of. WoW :surprised

man...I cannot believe how horrible a lot of the people at school were and with WoW, no joke. I have seen a ton of kids sit there and prioritize their Orc Shaman or their Night Elf Rogue over their expensive schooling. It is rediculous how many people dropped or failed out of school due to that game...

I was a young'n when I was at school (18) but I've always had older friends, so thankfully I got along with the older and more mature students/artists at my school, heck, my best pal was 10 years older than me. So that helped me stay more sane ahaha...

(I just noticed you're in Orlando...you go to Full Sail too?????? WoW is the destroyer of Full Sail hahah)


so to you new students....stay the heck away from WoW when in school! Instead of grinding for 10 hours...go to the lab and work on your reel!

ArticSpider
07-28-2008, 03:20 PM
All I know is, it's near impossible to get into this industry unless with some twist of fate, your incredible wanted and needed talent, and act of kindness from something or somebody. Otherwise just do this for free, for your own passion and do something else to make money.

Santucci
07-28-2008, 04:24 PM
All I know is, it's near impossible to get into this industry unless with some twist of fate, your incredible wanted and needed talent, and act of kindness from something or somebody. Otherwise just do this for free, for your own passion and do something else to make money.

Why thank you. I needed a reason to be depressed today. Hear that everyone? Just give up and go get a job from McDonalds.

Anywho... I know there are a lot of people that grab their pitchforks when the Art Institutes are brought up, but I went to their school in Pittsburgh and couldn't have been happier. Not only were there plenty of classes for the software (everything from photoshop, to after effects, and to Maya) but there was also a huge amount of traditional art classes (tons of figure drawing) and 2d animation. The teachers were knowlegable and skilled with industry experiance and, if on the rare occasion they didn't know the answer to something, they would find the answer, instead of brushing you off.

Also, they're standards are high and there isn't any time for WoW or drinking parties or anything else like that. It's a high paced school that requires a ton of work and commitment and I like that. And lastly, they helped me get my first industry job, which can be a beast to get.

No clue how much it costs compared to other schools now, but I think it's an awesome school.

Pianka
07-28-2008, 06:02 PM
Jack,

Since I experienced first hand what Full Sail Real World Education is like, I must tell you that the quality that I got was substandard. I can tell you why. Most of the staff there are student turned instructors (lab instructors) who stayed behind after graduation because of job security especially when some of them are married with kids. Less than 10% of them has actual professional big movie production experiences. And alot of the lab instructors there have an attitude, they gossip about the students alot especially during their breaks. Eventually, you will hear it back from the students.

If you really want to go to Full Sail. You must learn the school's history. Just google the name. The original name of the school is Full Sail Real World Education. They changed the name this year to Full Sail University to make it sound less like a for-profit-only school. I also believe there is a financial incentive for changing it to a University. Tax refund from the government. The school is only interested in making money.

When looking for a school, take an account on the present economy. We are in a recession in United States right now. Sallie Mae the only private loan lender that the school uses does not let any graduates consolidate the loans anymore. They want me to pay $1300 a month after my grace period is over. So I asked for a deferment. And I had to dish out a fee of $150 for a 5 month period of deferment. At the rate the economy is going, by the time you graduate from that school, the country will still be in a recession. And federal loans will eventually stop consolidating as well. In addition, after you sign the contract with Sallie Mae, let say you decided to drop out after 6 or 7 months into the program, you are responsible for the 100% of the tuition, not 50%. Something the Admission and Financial Aid staff will never tell you upfront before you enroll.

The Career Department has a really bad reputation. Most of my friends still don't have the job of their dreams after they graduated. So don't believe in the numbers on their pretty looking catalogue telling you that half the people who graduated has jobs. Not true. When the video game companies showed up for recruitment, most of the students don't even know about it. The teaching staff only invite their favorite students for the interviews. So if you are not the teacher's pet, it will take you longer to find a job immediately or if not at all.

Most of the students there are not very focus, half of them did drop out. Most of the guys are more interested in finding a girl to cuddle than being an artist. The school's forum has many complaints from the guys. And the usual answers from the 10% of the student body (the girls) is that the guys don't shower and they have very poor hygiene. Sadly, even the teaching staff has to bring it up in the beginning of the course.

If you really want to spend the money, I suggest Vancouver College in Canada or Gnomon in California. Their demoreels always blow my mind away. And the teaching staff have professional production experiences unlike Full Sail. And tuition is cheaper.

Hope that helps Jack.

ArticSpider
07-28-2008, 06:16 PM
Why thank you. I needed a reason to be depressed today. Hear that everyone? Just give up and go get a job from McDonalds.


You got something against jobs at McDonald's? With the decline and layoffs in jobs and rise in prices these days, you'll be lucky to even have some pocket change.

I wasn't trying to be negative and sorry to depress you, but for some sometimes you just have to face the facts after trying and trying to send in your resume for 10 years and never getting a call back, going to school then back to school trying to keep up and improve, trying to network or going through one lowsy job after another and never truly being where you want to be.

I'm not suggesting to give up on a dream, and didn't mean that if it sounded that way (I wasn't giving advice) just living and telling it as I see it. And I've done a lot of my homework in trying to find a way into this industry and putting my passion/money into it everything I can.

It's great you are progressively successful in your career but not all of us can have our dreams come true unfortunately.

trence5
07-29-2008, 03:51 PM
It can be awkward sometimes.

I'm 33 and back in school. :surprised:eek: :buttrock: :applause: :thumbsup:

My friend, I'm not far behind you. Thanx to you I just made up my mind to try to get my behind into someone classes.


I don't play WoW, and I wouldn't let that interfere with my agenda no matter what school I go decide to go to.




kudos:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

trence5
07-29-2008, 03:58 PM
Sorry man, I know that USC has a good film school but I dont know jack squat about their animation/vfx program other than a few teachers from Gnomon also teach/taught at USC.Sorry to bother you, but what is USC?

trence5
07-29-2008, 04:11 PM
I myself am 35, have as associate's degree in criminal justice for the practicality of it, and I do this 2d/3d stuff as well as screenwriting. All sorts of irons in the fire. I've done the whole web design thing but I am the vision and the creativity, not the coder. If anyody thinks people make websites via windows notepad, they are dreaming. There's a big time limit to what you can accomplish in that useless and archaic fashion- and there's functionality available via extensions for deamweaver cs3 that you'd never be able to mimic on your own, no matter how much education you had. Never once have I seen an employer ask to see you hand code a 20 page site using notepad..."just cuz." It'll never happen. You'd be looked at like the guy who only listens to sinatra records because 'they don't make real music today'.
They don't care if you can do that junk. You'll be working with wysiwyg all day long where 90% is automated and you put in your 10% and you're done. That's what advancements in technology are about: making the use of notepad to code html pages a faded nightmare best forgotten.

I looked at all the relevant schools and decided to save myself 90 grand and go right into freelancing. Don't forget one thing here...all that stuff you learn fades, and if you're 2 years out of the classrooms without constant work, you are not going to be the same caliber artist you were at the top of your game sitting through hours long instruction sessions daily. Also, as new software comes out, dies off, is bought by autodesk and assimilated, or changed radically, you must kep your certificatons/knowledge current or you just wasted 90,000 and 2+ yrs. If you're not working in the 1st year out of these mega-schools, you better start geting nervous because there's a good chance you're looking at a different career, but now nearly owing 100 grand. Do not enter into this lightly if you're 30+; taking the plunge suddenly seems a poor decision once you get dragged down by the undercurrents of no work and a 10 year loan repayment plan at $1000/month.

Make sure you know what you're doing. If you're 18 or 24 whatever, do what you want, you have a lot of time to decide. 30+? Not so much, and a very strangely hushed up fact in the cg/game industry that those IN the industry that post here should have mentioned is the very real existence of age bias. Unless you've got insane skills you need to be aware that the studios are going to read your resume, see you're 34 years old just starting out, and move on to the next rel from the guy who is 21 and just as good or better...but younger. The same unwritten rule goes in hollywood as concerns screenwriters. The rule is never tell them your age in the cover letter unless you're under 30. Doing so might get your script tossed immediately by some lame assistant reader who is 21 himself.

Adobe certs are simple but every updated release of the product you need to get recertified within 90 days I think, or say goodbye to your cert. Recert to be done at the nearest test center- which may be 3 hours away. At 30+ I'd say you stand a much, much better chance sticking with either broadcast visual fx, 2d adobe stuff, and the web stuff. These are things you will easily be able to find work in as opposed to something so specialized as 3d modeling and/or animation, both of which are younger mens' games.you gotta be kiddin' me........:banghead:

Santucci
07-29-2008, 04:52 PM
you gotta be kiddin' me........:banghead:

Not sure what you're upset about in that long post, as you quoted the whole thing.

Though, on that note, I think he's wrong about the handcoding in notepad. No you won't have to do it on the job but knowing how to do it is important. Sure Dreamwaver and whatnot makes code for you, but no program is perfect and sometimes you have to go in and fix things by hand. Someone who just knows the programs and not how to handcode can find themselves up a creek without a paddle.

Fess
07-29-2008, 07:17 PM
:eek: :buttrock: :applause: :thumbsup:

My friend, I'm not far behind you. Thanx to you I just made up my mind to try to get my behind into someone classes.


I don't play WoW, and I wouldn't let that interfere with my agenda no matter what school I go decide to go to.




kudos:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:


Happy to help ;)

Good luck on your endeavors...

trence5
07-29-2008, 08:07 PM
Not sure what you're upset about in that long post, as you quoted the whole thing.

No, not about coding or WYSIWYG style of Dreamweaver. I was talking about the whole if you're over 30 you're screwed implication.

Santucci
07-29-2008, 11:09 PM
I was talking about the whole if you're over 30 you're screwed implication.

Ah. Yeah, I don't get that either. 30 isn't old at all and it's better to try than spend your whole life wondering "what if...?"

CliffStHubert
07-30-2008, 03:23 PM
Ai: Art Institute of Miami

and

Full Sail in Orlando

SanjayChand
07-30-2008, 11:20 PM
Sorry to bother you, but what is USC?
University of Southern California.

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