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greg williams
04-12-2005, 05:48 PM
hello there, am trying to learn how to rig the 'meg otto' model using mocca in c4d 8.5 . i have been referencing the mocca tutorials (mime leg)-but have found problems when trying to apply them to this and other models: either the model remains completely un affected when i try and move the leg by a 'controller' or else the rest of the model mutates and deforms.

if using a model made of a single mesh do i have to build the whole skeleton before setting up any ik? do i have to use claude bonet?is there not a function that ascertains a hold over the bone and skin prior to or other than claude bonet(as it seems to require playing with the geometry in order to enable my getting into corners to paint)?-is it possible to rig a model without weighting in order to get some basic movement

if it is to be that claude is to be my only way,
is it important to use it before setting up ik? how greatly does the strength of claude bonet 'paint' affect the model?

any help most appreciated-as i am struggling somewhat,nyehm :applause:

Cactus Dan
04-12-2005, 08:56 PM
Howdy,

Well, the first thing you'd probably want to check is that your root bone's function is set to 1/r^8 or 1/r^10. Then you have a couple of choices to either use the Limit Range settings or Claud Bonet to restrict the bones influence to only those areas of the mesh you want each bone to affect. You can also use the Vertex Weight Maps, too. For a good tut on rigging with Mocca, have you seen slouchcorp's Mocca fundimentals tutorial?
http://www.slouchcorp.com/mocca/m2101.htm

Adios,
Cactus Dan

Decade
04-12-2005, 10:17 PM
To answer your questions; of course do what Dan said, but also:

The model will not deform until the bones have been fixed (right click top bone, choose fix bones).
You have to limit the effect of each bone somehow. Your choices are claude bonet, restriction limits (capsules, activated on the bone properties in the attribute manager), vertex maps (like claude bonet), the bone functions, as Dan mentioned. You should change the bone functions no matter what method you use.
Make sure to switch off 'smart bone' on all bones.
The best order to do things is : model whole charcter, build whole skeleton, weight the mesh to all bones (test by just rotating bones). Only set up IK after all this is done, Other ways are possible, but his is the simplest, quickest & least likely to go wrong IMO.
If you want to practice your IK setup, then just use a skeleton for practice, don't even involve a model.
To reach hard to get to points with claude bonet, uncheck 'force shading on the Claude Bonet tool options, uncheck 'only select visible elements' and switch to wireframe view.
These are not necessarily the only ways to work, but I have found it simple & reliable to do things roughly this way.
Hope this gets you started again.
P.S : check the Claude Bonets on the Mime rig : notice that they are just used to seperate the limbs reallly & the 1^R10 bone function is mostly left to do the bending, except at the hip, where the weighting has been smoothed.

Chrissyboy
04-13-2005, 12:30 AM
Make sure to switch off 'smart bone' on all bones.

Hi Decade - why is this important? The Maxon docs actually advise having this on at all times, except when opening pre-Mocca scenes (I think), they're meant to be a lot faster. Is there a problem with Smart Bones?

Cheers - Chris

LucentDreams
04-13-2005, 12:45 AM
for the average user, I'd advise the opposite, only use smartbones if you knwo what your doing, or you are using the FBX format to exchagne files. Otherwise sitck to the noon smart bones

Chrissyboy
04-13-2005, 01:17 AM
for the average user, I'd advise the opposite, only use smartbones if you knwo what your doing, or you are using the FBX format to exchagne files. Otherwise sitck to the noon smart bones

Interesting! Is there a particular difference I should be aware of? 'Smart' is a bit vague...

Thanks - C

Decade
04-13-2005, 10:31 AM
Smart bones are indeed smart when it comes to scaling of the bones & mesh - which you should rarely need to do. Unfortunately, I find that it is very easy to have trailing points when using smart bones. I was never able to succesfully weight with smart bones, except with 'absolute vertex mode' checked as well. This causes the bones to go ONLY from the vertex assignment, ignoring the bone function, any limits settings etc. Although this works, you end up having to paint a lot more weightmaps & tweak them a lot more.
Also, as Kai mentioned, they are used for FBX export, which I don't know anything about.
So I recommend just use non smart bones, although that's just what I've found & I don't know everything by any means.

Cactus Dan
04-13-2005, 11:49 AM
Howdy,

Yes, I agree with Kai and Decade about the Smart Bones option. I've noticed that having that option selected causes problems in the joint areas when you have a bend that's getting close to 90 and above. Unless you're rigging your skeleton with extra bones where each joint is, it's best to stay away from Smart Bones.

Adios,
Cactus Dan

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