Don't be offended, but......

[BrandonD]

Huh, what you say?

Software is just another tool, it's just the most accessible production tool for animation these days. I've done my share of traditional art and animation when I was younger, but I never did it in commercial production. Does that make me less of an artist?

The average studio will be looking for the artist with the most talent when considering new hires. Of course there are mitigating circumstances. Larger studios have more of an interest in investing in new artists. They will look less at the tools, while smaller studios tend to have different needs. They often look for people that have proven proficiency in tools as well as artistic talent. Why? Because they often don't have the luxury of training/mentoring new artists. They tend to need people to literally come in and work.

Here's the deal though, you shouldn't feel bad that there are so many mediocre artists out there that only know 3d software. There's also quite a large amount of passionate artists out there struggling to make a living doing the craft they love. Tools can be learned, but talent has to be developed. If you want a job somewhere, learn their tools and impress them.

[Ryan-B]

Hey Gonzo, please post some of your stuff for us to see. Thanks.

[Gonzo The Great]

Its funny how the exactly same printed set of words said in a different tone or different speed can come off in something completely contradictory.

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Huh, what you say? Software is just another tool

Relax Brandon. A pair of breasts are tools used for feeding an infant. Doesn't make them any less interesting of a topic.

I know software is a tool, people here know this, recruiters know this, but I've seen recruiters brake their own rules and guidelines, for their own reasons I don't know.... I wanted to know if any, and if people were open, to share their stories if they've come across instances like this.

The average studio will be looking for the artist with the most talent when considering new hires. Of course there are mitigating circumstances. Larger studios have more of an interest in investing in new artists. They will look less at the tools, while smaller studios tend to have different needs. They often look for people that have proven proficiency in tools as well as artistic talent. Why? Because they often don't have the luxury of training/mentoring new artists. They tend to need people to literally come in and work.

Whats this got to do with anything? I was talking about about poeple who don't want to animate assigned to animate something... Like my Computer Animation lecturer years ago at Univeristy/College.

I've done my share of traditional art and animation when I was younger, but I never did it in commercial production. Does that make me less of an artist?

I wasn't saying people here are good or bad artists. I haven't seen anything of anyones stuff, really. I think I've been the WIP and Galleries once or twice in the past two months. I come to discuss. It was a simple enquiry. I have noticed 3dsmax, maya and all the other cg animation tools - intended for animation production - being used as a means of simply creating still art work. (Like using a Motion Picture Camera to shoot a subject and then splicing a frame and developing that only.) I have listened to CG Talkers for a while before joining and was just getting the impression CG Talk is drawing more and more artists using animation tools for still artwork.

I'll ask the question differently:

How many people here use 3d animaiton software JUST for still art work pieces?

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Hey Gonzo, please post some of your stuff for us to see. Thanks.

I don't have or plan to have a website anymore. I have witnessed my own work, just a pencil sketch, and saw the exactly same subject, fully coloured and claimed as original by a 3rd party. It was pretty good actually, but I don't trust the web.

Why anyway?

[erilaz]

I am currently cringing because I can feel this thread becoming an arguement.

Meanwhile, yup, I'm currently only in the learning stages. I've dabbled with max for 5 years, but only seriously in the last year or so. I've still got a lot to learn about modelling and animation, and I mean in the artisitc sense, not the technical sense. I'm still getting the hang of proportion, weight and timing.
I've done a fair bit of acting and writing/directing, so that helps.

In fact, I recently bought a great book (this isn't a plug, I sincerely think it's a good read). It's called:
"The Animator's Survival Kit" (Williams, Richard; 2001)
Check it out if you haven't got the budget or the time for a full-fledged animation course. It's a nice start.

As to your question, no, I do not use the tool just for still work. I do for the challenges, obviously.

I could go on and on in this subject, but I won't, because I'm tired.:)

[Chris Thomas]

This post does seem a little off center....

I mean, sure we're all a little sick of crackbunny newbies pestering us to show them how to make a box.....

And were also a weary of 'no hopers' with pretty bad artwork....

However, in time some of these people will improve their skills, others will not..... its the way it goes. Others may find that they are more suited to technical roles, or as layout artitst, lighters, modellers or animators.

I certainly don't hold that the highest form of life in CG is the animator, they may get the most kudos due to their exposure by Pixar and their elevation to god like status there (strangely their boss and main evangelist, john Lassiter is an animator......)

And also, strangely enough, I've seen pretty good animators who had poor drawing skills, and vice versa. Their related skills, but one doesn't gaurantee the other.

In the UK, the most popular (but not necassarily best...) CG school in bournemouth tutors very little in artistic discipline, basicly students are left to learn on their own. Many who come from there complain. But they only have a case if its a 'computer animation' degree, which it aint.....

There's a place for most talents in CG these days, sculptors, programmmers, painters, animators etc. People just need to work ou where they like the work the most. Now if the crack bunnies would just keep quiet and learn their app of choice in silence (like good little bunnies) then we could all be happy ;)

Chris Thomas

[jason-slab]

so your only an "actual animator" if u've done all those classes, interesting

guess i'll be quitting my job them, because i only have traditional art training:annoyed:

|jason

[LFShade]

so your only an "actual animator" if u've done all those classes, interesting
Nobody said this. I don't even think anybody implied this. I think your job is safe, stal3fish:)

[BrandonD]

My only point is that you don't have to do all of the traditional things to still live and love the craft. There is no such thing as a "real" artist. Still, that aside, I think you'll find a majority of people serious about the craft of art/animation/vfx to have some creative drive. Whether that leads to talent or not is another story. Some people have it and others don't. However that hasn't prevented talentless morons to get great jobs while very talented artists are in the gutter. It goes both ways though. Some people aren't very good at marketing themselves while others put too much effort into it.

[googlo]

Gonzo,

Well, really when you think about it, as the programs gets better and better, to some degree the need for naturally talented artists decreases because their inborn skill for doing something can be approximated by the computer, and then the rest can just be tinkered and finished by a less talented individual. I still think you have to be a really creative person with the drive and sense about things though. but it's the same thing if you flip things around, lets say you have a team of good artists already but none of them really know how to program anything or problem solve? They just know how to scultp, animate, and draw really well.. When more techinical problems come up, who is the studio supervisor supposed to turn to? The animators with the deer-in-the-headlights stare when it comes to technical problem solving?
See it goes both ways really.
Maybe the person got hired because there already have enough artistically qualified people in the studio and they needed a person that was at least ok with art, but really good with understanding the software to iron out problems that would come up now and then. Maybe they experienced too many moments of cofusion from the 'real' artists during critical times of workflow and needed someone to problem solve through it?

[Gonzo The Great]

I am currently cringing because I can feel this thread becoming an arguement.

There's nothing wrong with that... as long as people don't hold a grudge and be judgmental when we bump into each in another thread.

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This post does seem a little off center....

One reason why I started this here is too see people's reactons in a strickly 3dsmax technical help forum, and not one of the general discussion or animation forums. But don't worry... it won't become a habit.

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so your only an "actual animator" if u've done all those classes, interesting..... guess i'll be quitting my job them, because i only have traditional art training

I was implying Traditional art is an added bonus, not negative.

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Well, really when you think about it, as the programs gets better and better, to some degree the need for naturally talented artists decreases because their inborn skill for doing something can be approximated by the computer, and then the rest can just be tinkered and finished by a less talented individual.

While this is true and I'm glad you brought it up, it wasn't exactly
what I was bitching about.

In regards of software becoming more automated, such as Character Studio's footstep feature for example, I am not against this.

The animators with the deer-in-the-headlights stare when it comes to technical problem solving?

Hahahha... :) Now that's funny! I think I do that 90% of time. And its funny when you catch yourself doing that... like you've had insomnia for 3 days.

Maybe the person got hired because there already have enough artistically qualified people in the studio and they needed a person that was at least ok with art, but really good with understanding the software to iron out problems that would come up now and then.

To put it bluntly... people who just know how to use the software... in this case MAX

In another instance: A software geek where in this case was given a three week intensive OBSERVATORY course, and only put into practise the creation of a poly box, nurbs sphere, played with the points, translated them from point A to B, who can't draw, can't act, be given a position in quite a large firm (where Softimage is the package of choice) with THE job title: "Character Animator". Granted he knew the software, it was a good course, but does this sound right? The recruiters were desperate, but rejected other applicants with average drawing ability but the timing in their reels was good, but where was their flaw? Arhhh.... They only knew Lightwave and 3dsmax. The hired guy didn't build, sculpt or rig anything but animated characters for 3 months, bringing down surrounding scenes done by fellow animators.

[dvornik]

To be honest I don't think CGTalk is an animation board. If you look at the animation forum here it's almost dead. I would say 90% of 3D is not about animation anyway, definitely not character animation. Nothing's wrong with that in my opinion.

I'm a beginner in 3ds max and I am trying to learn character animation. I have taken 3 courses in traditional animation and I enjoyed them, some concepts were really helpful. I do think of "keyframes" in terms of trad. animation, and technical keyframes are just something accidentally named the same way.

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