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jmBoekestein
04-05-2005, 10:59 PM
It struck me a while back when I was asked to summarise what I had learnt in the past school year on an exam.

In film everything has been developing in a mater of hundred years, cg being just a baby in the world but allready growing out of it's clothes and getting ready to go beyond imitating it's parents(being just an approximation of what's real.

Over the ages many artforms have sprung into existance, but none have progressed so fast as the filmindustry and cg branche in it.

My theory on it would be that in film and cg many different arts are combined and artists from different fields are communicating ideas and results. Where is this heading and is this true, am I just overlooking some things here? I know our culture of individual gains has an influence on this.

As it seems to me now, one should be busy n several artforms at a time to grow as an artist. It's better learning and tunes one to several different ways of approaching your environment. The tools are just tools, you have to know when and where what should be done.

Especially in cg I think this is the case, as from concept to final result envolves a lot of disciplines. Any experiences on this anyone? Or any comments or insights?


Thanks for checking.

paperclip
04-06-2005, 12:25 AM
I can definitely see how a solid knowledge of perspective/ three dimensional spatial awareness would be essential in 3d and contribute greatly to 2d work.

One of the 'hardest' things to do in art is to be able to actually visualise it in your mind's eye. Think of what you're trying to paint. Now close your eye and see whether you can actually 'see' it.
It's this ability to percieve correct forms that develops steadily within us while we learn to draw and continues to do so as long as you keep pushing yourself. Eventually you will be able to intuitively understand what goes where, because your mind's eye can see it properly. You're really just memorising how things look. This is an essential tool of an artist and one that I would welcome any tutorials on :)

jmBoekestein
04-06-2005, 12:32 AM
Yes I think that's definitely true, allthough what I think is happening on a larger scale is that knowledge between pro's from completely different fields complement eachother in film and subsequently in other areas. Not only by competition but because they complement eachothers truths to a greater degree thatn just that they fit. The human brain is built I think to absorb all the impulses at the same time and in films a lot of different ways to achieve that have been implemnted alongside eachother. This I think is putting everything in a considerable speed up.

As to a tutorial for shpaes and such, this is the closest I have. Somebody once told me that you could also turn the painting and the canvas upside down and just paint what you see then. It loses context but stays truth so to speak, and you can clearly see what's just there.
http://www.anticz.com/drawing1.htm

chadtheartist
04-06-2005, 12:37 AM
I had this big elaborate answer that pretty much covered my entire life for the past three years, and I found it didn't answer you question! So I scrapped it and I'm going with this one!

I think CG will eventually evolve into other mediums in a more mainstream level. Personally I want to do graphic novels. That's my dream, and I'm going to do it all CG. I don't care if it takes me another two to three years to learn 3D to get to that level, but I will do it. Other people may start using it for T-shirt designs, or print advertising. CG is really just a means to an end. It's a cool means to an end. But it's really not much more than that.

The main reason why I chose to do my graphic novel in 3D rather than hand drawing it is because of one thing. Reusability. Even though it will take a month or more to make a character, once it's done I can reuse it infinitely. I may be able to pencil a comicbook in a month, but after it's done it's finite. I'll have to start from scratch to do the next pages.

So in essence, I guess CG just adds another tool for the utility belt. There isn't anything noble about it, nor do I think it will eliminate the need for traditional art. It's just another brush to be used.

PS: And to answer the question about learning other arts as well as CG, I'm all for that! Although I'm already a pretty good 2D artist, I still try and learn new things too, i.e. sculpting. Right now my passion is writing, other than doing the 3D stuff. I love the idea of fleshing out a story, creating plots and sub-plots, defining character archs, etc... I find that to be more interesting than anything I can do with my hands. But I've known that since I was knee-high to a grasshopper.

jmBoekestein
04-06-2005, 12:56 AM
Well, I should have been more careful at defining cg I guess. I actually meant more 3d than anything else. And the high-end part of it.

I agree it's another tool on the belt, but when used properly it's far more powerful than just about anything you'll find around you. You mustn't forget that anything that can be represented with pixels can be animated and rproduced eventually in 3d computer software. Nowadays it just takes too much time though, so it might take a little while before it can actually be done. The speed at which insight increases alongside this particular artform is astounding me I guess. I overlooked other massmedia but you could count them to the same group allthough some ar far more bent on documentary and informative content. It could also be that people have more to convey to eachother now that knowledge is spreading more easily.

Without something to say or convey there's no point to it I think.

Good luck with the graphic novel Chadtheartist!(and the Batt will be finished I hope?)

DaddyMack
04-06-2005, 01:10 AM
Cool discussion topic guys;)

*blurb
I remember back in 1988 in my final year of high school, My art teacher Mrs Thomas stood me and another student up in front of the class...She said class, here we have 2 students, 1 with a lot of talent (me) and one with a lot of dedication (other) ...Show us your work boys (3 months before major work final submission) My fellow student had an elaborate collage of all the things that meant something to him in his life... I had a bunch of ideas that had very little heart but showed how clever I was in a sketchbook...

It really woke me up that art is just expression of oneself. A way of storing thoughts or feelings in media for the sake of doing so...

Since then I've done stacks of expressing myself but I constantly strive for practical knowledge in every discipline I can wrap my brain around. I come from a graffitti painting-stone sculpting-signwriting-airbrushing-screenprinting-prop constructing-backdrop painting-relief carving-industrial designing-cging background end blurb*

The most important thing that I've learned is that 'the rules are there for a reason' I used to be so non-conformist with my art until I realised that the 'rules' are just knowledge passed down from those that have trodden my path before me...In every discipline...

A little research into what's been done before, and why, can work wonders on one's ability to make well informed decisions about the most effective way to communicate through our chosen media... Knowledge is power... It's all interwoven...

It's blissfull perpetual noobness:)

What are you studying JM?

chadtheartist
04-06-2005, 01:12 AM
Well as far as the medium of 3D progressing, I feel it has a long way to go before it's mainstream consumer friendly. Personally I see programs like Poser becomming a much larger role than the higher-end 3D programs. Or they themselve will include Poser like simplicity to 3D. Like built-in character rigs, or base human models(like XSI has) and more elaborate shader libraries, etc...

And thanks for the encouragement on the graphic novel. I've been writing it for years, so it's not something I want to get done ASAP. It's my dream, my life so to speak. So I want it to be good. As far as the Batt goes. I doubt I'll finish it. I learned a lot from it, so it wasn't a waste. I just have other ideas I want to do that would fit better in a demo reel.

jmBoekestein
04-06-2005, 01:24 AM
@DaddyMack, I'm studying VFX in filmschool now. FInishing the first year where we had overall film related classes. Getting onto the real deal next year. But I hadn't studied any arts before, it was quite the eyeopener to see how they invented new methods for storytelling.

@ChadTheArtist, sounds like you've been working with some dedication there! I hope it works out. So you actually go about engineering the story and characters. We had a writer tell us about literature at school a while back. He thinks that one can be taught the ways of writing and become a writer. How do you go about that?

DaddyMack
04-06-2005, 01:44 AM
VFX...wicked...jealous...

I'm seriously considering a bachelor of digital media in fine arts next year which hopefully will lead me into a masters in animation...have to reshuffle my life tho...
Most of the knowledge I've built up over the years either comes from trial and error or books man, books are like gold to me, and they come in all colors and sizes, a sound investment every time!

Enjoy immensely your second year mate:thumbsup:

jealous...

jmBoekestein
04-06-2005, 02:06 AM
Will do, thanks man! Hope it works out for you!:)

chadtheartist
04-06-2005, 03:38 AM
@ChadTheArtist, sounds like you've been working with some dedication there! I hope it works out. So you actually go about engineering the story and characters. We had a writer tell us about literature at school a while back. He thinks that one can be taught the ways of writing and become a writer. How do you go about that?

I too think anyone can write. Especially considering the wealth of stories that we have available to us. But there are "rules" that you must follow before you even start writing your first draft. I think a lot of people have problems with that. They jump right to the first draft, before they develop any of the characters, their relationships, or the plot and sub-plot of the story. Those elements are crucial to starting to write and if you have everything mapped out beforehand, you'll have a much better idea of how to write it.

I would recomment two books I recently bought. I don't know how comfortable you are with reading an English text book, but from your posts I think you have a firm grip of English, so I'd suggest getting Screenwriting for Dummies and The Screenplay Workbook. You don't need the Screenplay Workbook right off the bat, but it is a very, very good aid in character creation, plot points, and outlines.

One thing to keep in mind. All stories have already been told. Period. The sooner you realise that, the sooner you'll start to see how true that is. So the first thing you need to do is find stories that are similar to yours, and study them. This will do two things, one it will give you ideas, and two, it will prevent you from doing something that is almost exactly like someone else's story. It's hard to look at all similar stories though, so often times you can combine elements together to make your story work.

Screenwriting for dummies, aside from the silly name, is probably one of the best tools I've seen on getting someone to write with a visual medium in mind. The author, Laura Schellhardt, is a pretty smart cookie, IMO.

If you have anymore questions, shoot me a PM or email. chadtheartist@mac.com

maxmaster
04-07-2005, 01:04 PM
Chadtheartist, I dream the same dream you dream.


Major studios are also hungry for good stories. In Japan, things goes like this;
Story(Novel)->Comic(Manga)->Animation->Game / Movie.


Techniques come and go but great stories remains. Who cares about SSS shader or topology a few years later? Being in the industry from early 80s, I am sick of Tech-Revolution.


The idea of being an original creator of good story with CG came naturally, not after serious thingking.


Try Internet fantasy novels.

jmBoekestein
04-07-2005, 02:25 PM
Sorry I forgot to post.

It's nice to have a firm grip on things, but meanwhile technology will keep developing.

No matter how many times over a story can be good, if the illustrations are "out of date" and thus less intricate. I will not bother to read it, simply because all stories have been told and the chances are that I can find something better if I look for it.

So as for hating the tech revolution. No I don't, I love progress! It makes everything that much better. Stagnation is a sin.

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