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noisewar
09-28-2002, 12:26 PM
Hi guys, this model is pretty much finished for now except a few barely noticeable things, so I could use some healthy critique. I would like to know what y'all think of the head, particularily the brow area as I had much trouble there, and if the general build allows for animation rigging. I tried to follow Bay Raitt's lines but I got sloppy, so I am hoping that the model can still be rigged decently. My understanding of anatomical lines is amateur at best right now. Thanks for any feedback!

Oh yeah and I made this in Maya in about 5800 polys triangulated.

http://www.toasterdesign.com/noisewar/Images/GoblinSeamster-Concept.jpg

http://www.toasterdesign.com/noisewar/Images/GoblinSeamster-Persp.jpg

http://www.toasterdesign.com/noisewar/Images/GoblinSeamster-Front.jpg

Nahaz
09-28-2002, 01:11 PM
Looks great! :)

truk77
09-28-2002, 02:07 PM
What's his inspiration? Is he based off of a MTG card?

lmc
09-28-2002, 03:11 PM
great, i like it...any wired frame?!:bounce: :applause:

noisewar
09-28-2002, 04:00 PM
silly me forgot the wireframe, thanks fer reminding me.

truk77: no he's not based of MTG... not really sure what MTG is...? It's really my gf's interpretation of a goblin character, since I wanted him on stilts and she wanted him with a candle on his head, and so we gave him a needle instead. Er... don't ask...


http://www.toasterdesign.com/noisewar/Images/GoblinSeamster-Wireframe.gif

yeeeet
09-28-2002, 04:49 PM
THis looks cool, I really like the design. The only problem i see is the squareness of his chest and belly, especially noticable in the above 3/4 shot. Watch out for squareness in the arms as well, be sure to move every vert away from the box u started with, and be sure every edge suggest something about the creatures anatomy, even if you have to guess. I dont know if you care or not, but looking at it from a game art perspective there is a lot of misuse of polygons, ie you could reduce your polycount by maybe a thousand and still have a model that looks aproximately the same. Im into low polly though, so maybe dont listen to me. In terms of rigging, the main thing to keep in mind is that each joint needs to maintain the mass of the appendage at every moveable angle. So imagine looking at the arm socket from the side. It would look about like a circle. That same circle needs to be seen as the exact same shape from the front view and top views in order to maintain the mass of the arm when he moves it forward and over his head. The same thing applies for the legs. Imagine the leg soket from the bottom view. That same shape needs to be the same shape from the front view and side view in order to maintain the mass of the leg when he runs(puts leg forward) or does the splits(do seamster goblins do splits?) Its difficult to tell whether these things are going on from the views you gave. The best way to tell is to hide all the polys in the arms and legs and see what the sokets on the torso look like. I think the belt might be in the way of a 90degree leg lift, but who knows whether you need that much movement or not. So i felt like rambeling today. Nice model.

noisewar
09-29-2002, 12:33 AM
hmmm, I'm trying to understand what it means to maintain mass at a joint. so would it be a good idea to say... fit a sphere in roughly the area of the joint and see if the lines of polys make circles around it?

about it being high poly, yeah I began it as a game model, but work came up so I decided not to cut down on it. I haven't learned how to use geodesic modeling so it'll have to do for now. Thanks for the crits!

Dr-spline
09-29-2002, 01:44 AM
mtg I asume is magic the gathering.
Nice goblin

yeeeet
09-29-2002, 04:54 AM
By maintaining the mass i mean that when the arm is put strait out in front of the figure or over his head it needs to retain its shape as it colapses into the body. The severity of this colapse and how much mass you loose in the joint is determined by the angle and shape of the circle joint I mentioned earlier. Delete all the pollys of the arm up to the shoulder joint. You will see a hole in the torso in the aproximate shape of a circle. This hole needs to be visible from the front view and top view, not just a side view. The hole represents the roundness/thickness/mass/depth of the arm. If this hole is not visible from the front view and top view, lets say that from the front the circle hole isnt even visible because of its angle, it just looks like a strait line of verts, then when the arm is brought around the arm will turn paper thin at the joint. It is necessary to rotate/shape the circle until it is visible from the front and top views. This took me about 5(ok 10 or more) model riggings to understand and lots of drawing stupid vert joints to try and figure out what the hell is going on and its still a pain in the ass. I think once you rigg it you will see what I am talking about it and it will make more sense. Before you mess with it too much try and rigg it and see what kind of problems arise and then adjust if it needs it. Im not certain but I think higher polly models dont have as much problems when they rigg because the extra verts smooth out the discrepancies. I wish I could explain it better. Also make sure you pay close attention to where you put the shoulder and leg joints of your skeleton or biped, 2 verts in the wrong direction and it throws the joint off. The way i rigg is save the mesh, then hit phyzyque(im not sure what the command is in maya), see all the lame problems with it(sometimes this requires a list), and then go back to the last save without saving and make my fixes, and then do it all over again. 10 times isnt unheard of for this process. IF your character has limited movement you dont even need to worry. You can usually get a walk without worrying about this crap, but if he needs to lift his arms then you gotta be more precise. Im sure theres other ways to do it but this is the best way Ive found so far that gives consistant results. Maybe i should write a book and stop boring cg channel peeps.

frye
09-29-2002, 06:19 AM
Geez, yeeet sure loves to type. Do you have a smoothed render.

noisewar
09-29-2002, 07:31 AM
wow thanks alot yeeets, that's definitely very helpful. I took another look at the shoulder and noticed some bad problems with the profile circle of the arm. I'm not too sure what "physique" does so I can't think of a Maya equivalent...

what I dont understand is why the profile circle must be visible from the Front view. I mean, wouldn't that mean that the arm is only flexible for bending forward, not back as well?

and dang it I did notice the belly is not that smooth, so I'll have to tweak that a bit. Thanks for all the feedback!

please excuse the ugly shadows:
http://www.toasterdesign.com/noisewar/Images/GoblinSeamster-Smooth.jpg

Frank Dodd
09-29-2002, 10:58 AM
I am not that experienced with rigging a model to offer any constructive criticism in this case. I just wanted to add my congratulations on a great model and an excellent idea for it too it looks great.

The model does have a very low poly count (which is great if you have all the detail in there that you need) Does this need to be a low poly model for a RT renderer?

yeeeet
09-29-2002, 03:53 PM
arms have very limited movement when bent backwards(you cant bend your arm back and touch your other arm) so its not a problem.

phoenix
09-29-2002, 04:23 PM
like the work dude.........

thanks yeeeet for the info.............

lmc
09-30-2002, 02:24 AM
yeeeet,do u have other way to explain it more easy to understand,sorry for that but i just wan to get wat u re talking attually,thanks
:wip:

yeeeet
09-30-2002, 04:19 AM
I cant be any clearer without illustrations and I dont know how/where to post so unless you feel like telling me...

Spankenstein
09-30-2002, 05:41 PM
It's got character, that's what counts. He could use some rounding out tho, not so much adding new polygons as just smoothing out the curves that are already there. I would also make his belly protrude a little from the bottom of the belt, you know, to kind of give it more mass, make it look like it is hanging some. Also, I would make the eyes a little bigger, more to match the sketch, so that it can be more expressive come animation time.

Overall, it is a terrific example of translation from sketch to 3D while maintaining the character and charm.

noisewar
10-01-2002, 03:03 AM
Thx for the feedback Spank, I made those changes that you pointed out. Welp, I'm done with the model for now, but man is it great to have fresh eyes look at your work. The critique is always more acute than your own.

piajartist
10-01-2002, 11:19 PM
i think that the texture component is needed to be in the scene. The creature isnt finished

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