Boolean vs. ???

[Ls3D]

The built in booleans can be sloppy, leaving extra verts everywhere and missing chances to optimize. One most often cleans up after using the built in boo opps. Npower makes a great boolean engine called power booleans (and now NURBS!) that does a much better job.

As far as workflow (like bldg walls/windows) , If you can create shapes and extrude you are going to have cleaner geometry than if you rely on just booleans. As far as schooling the instructor & making an impression - forget it, that is ego. Just do great work, read & re-read the docs and remain open minded to many sources of information and opinions.

-S

[-Vormav-]

The most annoying problem I've noticed when using Max's booleans is that it often leaves extra vertices where you shouldn't need any; vertices down the center of straight edges. This makes it so that your mesh triangulates very poorly (which may lead to shading errors), but also makes it very difficult to work with a mesh right after you've done a boolean operation because you have to spend a lot of time cleaning up the area of the mesh that the boolean operations affected. Booleans (complex booleans, anyway) also have a tendency to leave very very nasty tesselation on your surfaces that makes them nearly impossible to deal with. Try placing a letter into the side of a box with boolean subtraction, and watch what happens to that side of the mesh. Now, imagine trying to make any changes to that side.

There are times where it's easiest just to go ahead and use booleans; but you should also understand alternatives to this (and rule those out as simple and valid options), and at the very least cut your polygons to isolate the area of the mesh that the booleans will affect, incase you end up having to change something.

You shouldn't need booleans for things as horridly simple as doors and windows though. Make a few edge connections on your wall, inset some polys, and delete those. It's very easy (though more difficult to learn at first), and will leave you with a clean, controllable mesh.

[Hazdaz]

Are you actually using MAX for your Architectural class or just your Level Design class (or is it one in the same thing)?

If your not using MAX in the Arch class then chances are your using some kind of CAD app, in which case Booleans are THE way to model. Booleans are great.

BUT, booleans in MAX is just plain awful.... use them if you have to in that class, but honestly they create more problems than they are worth... especially in something like a game where you want as few extranious poly as possible. I can see someone maybe using them in a high-poly architectural or product visualization where poly-count isn't so strict, but not in a game level. Ugh.

Sounds like your instructor there needs to be taught a few things.

[marktsang]

dont ever bother with (the default) booleans in max - it will nealy always be faster to model then to boolean and then clean up the ungodly mess it leaves behind

mark

[vizbiz]

I second just about everything said above. However in my opinion, I find it much easier to build the walls with splines extruded, skipping windows and doors. I build the under part of windows on a separate spline, as well as over the windows and doors. With the extrude modifier in place, it makes it much faster to make revisions (I spend more time making architectural changes than anything else ...... the bastards!). Like Ls3D said earlier, it makes a nice clean "squared" structure.

Some will debate me, but your file is smaller using this method. You can speed up your viewports by adding edit mesh modifers to the top of the stacks. But have those splines makes it quick to got in and grab lines for other uses like lofting trim.

At some point in time, booleans are inevitable.

Good topic.

http://www.parkervisuals.com

[AlecMoody]

Depending on what kind of work you are doing, I would reccomend an app specifcially targetted for level work. Assuming this is level design for realtime I would check out cartography shop. http://www.leadwerks.com
Its alot like hammer and the next version will have loads of new features.

I am affiliated with the author so take that with a grain of salt.

[DJ_Laszlo]

Are you actually using MAX for your Architectural class or just your Level Design class (or is it one in the same thing)?

....

Sounds like your instructor there needs to be taught a few things.

It's not an arch class, the course is called 3D Graphics, Anim. Computer Games. In this course we will be taught Open GL, VRML and now first of all some basic level design - the architectual stuff is only very basic so that we can some kinds of buildings to our leveles, or build our levels around, which ever finds each and one of us suitable...

Thanks for all the replies by the way - I really appreciate it..!

[TYAZAR]

For architects having to use autocad, boolean is the only way to "extrude" the plan. (until SketchUp 4)

But in 3DMAX... in Computer Graphics, and Games... you are not using autocad right?? I think there are much better techniques. Maybe the instructor just wanted to introduce the old logic of boolean, he/she should then introduce modeling buildings with polygonal modeling too..

[azozel]

When I use to work at viewpoint data-labs in Orem UT. It was policy that we were to avoid Booleans at all costs. They felt it was the sign of a 3d noob and there is alwase a workaround that is more trusted. Boolean was a four letter word at viewpoint (unless you were programming something.).

[Hazdaz]

For architects having to use autocad, boolean is the only way to "extrude" the plan. (until SketchUp 4)

Are you talking about WITHIN AutoCAD or when importing DWG files into MAX?
If your talking about the later.. then you are wrong. Using booleans is A way... but far from the ONLY and definitly NOT the best way for most things in MAX.

In AutoCAD they are not the onlt way, but they are a very common and GOOD/EASY/CLEAN way of modeling. Depending on the part, many times I model in AutoCAD cuz it is easier and then import the stuff into MAX.

[charleyc]

I agree that MAX booleans are not the best on the block. But if you get to know them, they can be very useful in a pinch. The best thing to do when using them is to convert to mesh and make all edges visible. The extra verticies that result from the boolean operation is the bi-secting of these "hidden" edges. The operation must work at a mesh level because even booleaning Poly objects will result in the extra verts. Also, most of the time booleans fail on the first attemp is due to the hidden edges. Making all edges visible will greatly reduce poor boolean issues. Converting to Editable Poly's after the boolean and using the Edge Constraints and Vertex Remove features can save a lot of time cleaning up as well. So if you know what you are getting into, booleans can save a lot of time on otherwise difficult modeling. But as was stated, 90% of the time, you are much better off if you can avoid using them.

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.