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stoat
03-30-2005, 12:57 PM
Robert Turner has entered the Master and Servant 3D.

Challenge Page (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/masterandservant/view_entries.php?challenger=6979)

Latest Update: Rendering: swift render test
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1115037439_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1115037439_large.jpg)

Well, not too happy with this, nuff said.

Cartesius
03-30-2005, 01:33 PM
Bring it on :)

/Anders

jddog
03-30-2005, 02:25 PM
will follow you :wip: good luck !
jdd

altebanger
03-30-2005, 03:04 PM
Subscribed ;)

soapy
03-30-2005, 04:38 PM
Hooked up.

stoat
04-02-2005, 10:17 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1112437058_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1112437058_large.jpg)

The queen and Shakespeare will stand on the stage of the Globe. Shakespeare explaining the dagger scene.

Based on Hegel's idea of the master and servant. How the relationship is distorting. Here I want to raise that question but use two people wherre that relationship is more ambiguous.

handlebar
04-03-2005, 01:08 PM
Great concept, best of luck, i'll be watching

stoat
04-03-2005, 03:06 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1112537168_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1112537168_large.jpg)

Nearest I can get to Elizebeth I. Working from a 3/4 quarter view painting by Hilliard I found that it looked just too weird. The Tudors have their eyes way wider than anyone else. My model looked sort of alien, so I moved the eye in.

When she's got her red hair on, hopefully eveeryone will guess who she is meant to be.

jddog
04-03-2005, 03:27 PM
Hey that pretty good... take care at the mouth and the chin, it looks a little bit narrow, otherwise :thumbsup: that a good starting point... :wip:
jdd

stoat
04-04-2005, 03:49 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1112626185_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1112626185_large.jpg)

Stuck the old plastic cow pat hair on lizzie to see what she would look like. Oddly she now looks a bit like Princess Anne. So a bit of family resemblance then, tee hee

stoat
04-05-2005, 10:12 AM
Thanks Jddog, the lips are actually a bit fuller than they look. The thinness is the inside of her cakehole. :) Her chin looks better with her fuff on as well. Still haven't got that right. Tried all ways; it's a sort of sine wave shape. I tried making a wave spline and deforming it but it didn't pan out. I might have to make do with a simple circle shape. :cry:

stoat
04-05-2005, 10:40 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1112694001_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1112694001_large.jpg)

One of the problems with Liz the first is that she had really beautiful hair. All auburn curled locks. Don't know about how to do it. Don't think you're allowed to just paint it on in post.

stoat
04-05-2005, 12:21 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1112700080_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1112700080_large.jpg)

A quick go at the theatre, mainly to see how the lighting will pan out for this

jddog
04-05-2005, 12:32 PM
One of the problems with Liz the first is that she had really beautiful hair. All auburn curled locks. Don't know about how to do it. Don't think you're allowed to just paint it on in post.


take a look at > Bobtroinc shader experiment (thread) (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=212436)
you can download the mat too.

jdd

handlebar
04-05-2005, 12:35 PM
I like the theatre setting a lot, cool

soapy
04-05-2005, 04:35 PM
Looking good Stoat. What is with the artifacts on Liz's head? I like the face a lot, it somehow reminds me of old paintings from the period. I suppose they will be seen from a long distance, maybe those artifacts won't matter?

stoat
04-05-2005, 08:05 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1112727957_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1112727957_large.jpg)

For this I used the chestnuts plugin. I think she\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s shaping up into a feisty looking lass. Snow Whiite meets margaret thatcher and tha maid of Orleans. Yuch what a horrible thought ;-)

stoat
04-05-2005, 08:14 PM
Hi soapy, no idea what they are, I take it you mean those like little mesh dipple thingies. They suddenly appeared when I made the hair bit. I just put it down to lack of enough ram. Could be the smoothing tag I suppose, or even that the hypernurb is set very low for the moment.

stoat
04-06-2005, 11:28 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1112783299_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1112783299_large.jpg)

Her dress is simple, it's all the buttons and bows that have to be added but most of that will be textures.

Claireabella
04-06-2005, 08:43 PM
HHHmmmm, see what you mean about the resemblence with princess Anne. Scary! Looking good so far and I'm interested to see how the theatre setting turns out. Good luck! :thumbsup: Claireabella

stoat
04-06-2005, 10:59 PM
Thanks Clare, as I say somewhere in the thread, I had to pull in the eyes a bit because the Tudors have such oddly spaced eyes. It might also be a thing to do with 16th/17th century painters.

:) Nah :hmm: David Icke was right, the Tudors are all evil lizard people from Alpha Proxima. They suck peoples' brains brains out and put them in jars :applause: Wonder where I got that idea from :shrug:

jake rupert
04-07-2005, 07:07 AM
I think you should work on the composition and background as well a little...

Jake

stoat
04-09-2005, 10:07 AM
Hi Jake,

The basic theatre is built but i don't want to do too much to it until i get Shakespeare built and the two characters posed. I've only built the complete theatre to see how the lighting works in a theatre in the round like the Globe. As we are supposed to have emotion showing between the pair, I think it means a fairly close up shot. So just a texture behind them.

soapy
04-09-2005, 05:20 PM
Yeah I always have that problem, I want to be in close to the characters yet I want a grand wide vista. It is a bit of a conundrum.

stoat
04-09-2005, 06:09 PM
This challenge has obviously been set with one eye on getting a lot of character close ups with expressions. Still probably a good idea though to put in a shot with a big view, cos the sponsors will be looking for those shots as well I would think. When I started doing the Globe theatre I had to resist going overboard on it, yet it would be good to do in its entirety. As it is it's only onw bit and a bunch of instances.

soapy
04-09-2005, 07:24 PM
Maybe you can set the camera on a wide angle setting and still move in close to catch both the figures and the theatre. Would save on modeling feet etc..?

6foot5
04-09-2005, 07:51 PM
hi stoat, as far as the composition dilemma with the closeups and all, you may have seen i had a similar problem. I think you shouldnt worry too much about what the sponsers are looking for, what ever gives you the most striking and powerfull image is the answer, even though it may not contain a lot of sophisticated modeled enviroments. a wide angle lens would give you a distorted picure. keep going , very original concept.:)

stoat
04-09-2005, 08:03 PM
Ah ha :) if I put shakespeare into the bottom part of a dalek, like Davros, I can save on him having to have those clonky Elizebethan shoes modeled.

Oh I've go to worry about what the sponsors are after :cry: I'm a complete snevelling crawler :thumbsup:

6foot5
04-09-2005, 08:17 PM
hmm, i would refrain from the dalek idea, although it adds a whole new dimension to the master servant dynamic it may prove to be too disturbing a vision. ;)

soapy
04-09-2005, 09:59 PM
a wide angle lens would give you a distorted picure.

Huh? It depends on what you consider wide angle and what you consider distortion. If you think about it in terms of a 35 mm camera I would say that a fish eye lens would give you too much distortion. Whereas a 22- 28 mm lens is wide angle without too much distortion. And I might add that sometimes a little distortion adds dynamism to an image.

But since we are talking about a virtual camera you can work the camera to find a happy medium between a wide field of view and distortion.

I do not want to get into an arguement here and mess up Stoat's thread so I will say no more. But I did want to point out that he has options with how he handles his field of view in camera. Cheers.

stoat
04-10-2005, 07:16 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1113156983_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1113156983_large.jpg)

Start on the bard's fizzog. This is going to be the younger Shakespeare, he has hair but even in his youth he was starting to get the old Bobby Charlton (four strands wrapped rounf the head, sad)

stoat
04-12-2005, 11:23 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1113301435_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1113301435_large.jpg)

I think hair is going to be my downfall in this comp. I've stuck some plastic cow pats on him to see how he looks with it. it, looks sort of like him, from a great distance, and smoke and fog. ;-)

Crazydesign
04-12-2005, 11:45 AM
:) [/url]

I think hair is going to be my downfall in this comp. I've stuck some plastic cow pats on him to see how he looks with it. it, looks sort of like him, from a great distance, and smoke and fog. ;-)


Try a hair bumpmap....s what i would do...just a suggestion.:thumbsup:

jim

[url="http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=228027"]http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=228027 (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1113301435_large.jpg)

stoat
04-12-2005, 12:09 PM
Yeah, and an alpha and spec map but hair is still an nightmare. I think I'll look in the faq's to see what post painting, if any, is allowed. Still, quite pleased with old Shaky, he looked a bit of a hippy in his youth, so i might have him offering a blast on a spliff to Lizzie.

An amazing guy, about two thirds of the words in any dictionary are down to him, and about a third of popular sayings. The people at his plays must have understood them, so there had to be an intellectual explosion at the time.

handlebar
04-12-2005, 03:34 PM
Looking great there stoat. The bard has a beard and is looking very dapper. http://www.cgtalk.com/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.cgtalk.com/images/icons/icon13.gif

teapoter
04-13-2005, 02:45 PM
its interesting i like it :) waiting for your next step

stoat
04-13-2005, 03:13 PM
Thanks Kangyuying :) No relation to Harry Potter are you? :thumbsup:

jddog
04-13-2005, 03:15 PM
heila great progress... continue like this. :thumbsup:
:wip:
jdd

Adriano-Zanetti
04-13-2005, 05:31 PM
the idea is to be constructive so I'm not gonna lie...I'm not a big fan of the shape of your faces... I think you could easely give them more personality, more depth... the shape of their skin is just to flat and some very thin edges do give a bit away of the shallowness of the skin. You might wanna give it more generous curvy/rounded shapes.

Anyway, keep up the good work man and thanks for your comment on my page :O)


pe@ce

soapy
04-13-2005, 06:53 PM
I still say that the modeling here lends itself to the art of the time. My first impression of the new model is undeniably Shakepeare. So no problems from me. Your style is your style right? It develops as it will. I am looking forward to seeing how the image comes together.

stoat
04-13-2005, 10:05 PM
At the moment there aren't any real textures, I'm just after an Elizebethan feel to the thing. I'm quite happy with the basic models so far. I do want to have the idea that you are looking at a picture of people from a different period. I could model a baldy guy and say that's an actor that played Shakespeare but it won't work.

handlebar
04-14-2005, 10:01 AM
I totaly agree with Soapy, when i first saw these characters i was in no doubt that the style was spot on for the period, and remember thinking at the time what a clever touch that was.

Cartesius
04-14-2005, 12:41 PM
Definitely shakesperian in style. I do think you can work with the volume of the faces (round them off a bit, giving them more personality) but on the other hand they work fine like they are now.

Keep it up!

/Anders

stoat
04-14-2005, 01:01 PM
Yeah, they need more work but they are still symmetry objects at the moment. I think that just a bare touch of facial asymmetry with a magnet tool does wonders for changing a face into something believable. The beard and tache are just put on temporary so that I could see whether I had the Shaky look. They look terrible but a good texture will change that, I hope.

stoat
04-15-2005, 02:12 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1113570750_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1113570750_large.jpg)

Stuck a quick texture on her frock to see how the colour scheme works. i think green works well with red hair but all of the paintings of her have her in loads of gold.

I put this in modeling because it's hardly a texture piece as yet, more a colour sketch.

stoat
04-16-2005, 01:04 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1113653064_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1113653064_large.jpg)

Joined up the two sides of the face and altered one side a tiny little bit. She is slightly amused, about as amused as a monarch was allowed to get back then.

stoat
04-16-2005, 01:06 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1113653171_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1113653171_large.jpg)

Joined up the two sides of the face and altered one side a tiny little bit. She is slightly amused, about as amused as a monarch was allowed to get back then.

stoat
04-16-2005, 01:11 PM
I changed my colour profile from mac to "pc like" for this one, no idea if it works on pc's. It should be brighter and a bit less contrasty on a pc now.

No idea why there are two of them up there :eek:

handlebar
04-16-2005, 01:24 PM
Definately brighter and less contrasty on this pc. Great expression, and nice subtle working.

jddog
04-16-2005, 01:38 PM
You are doing a really good job... continue like that and if you can found time try to work a little bit more on the face and lipps area to accentuate the expression (you will reach more emphasize on expressions)
:wip:
jdd

Gunilla
04-16-2005, 05:47 PM
This historical Shakespare style is a really good idea - and so refreshing and unique for the challenge! I really like the amount of details you're giving to Lizzys clothes. Really well done so far, I will follow this from now :thumbsup:

soapy
04-16-2005, 06:21 PM
I like the choice of green for the dress, works great. You could always fire some gold embroidery onto it?

stoat
04-16-2005, 08:02 PM
:) Yep, I'll have to work on the dress when I put it through uvmapper. It's a faff but better than nowt. Just now as a bit of a busman's holliday I'm doing Shaky's body. Bit of a sober dresser was the old bard, by the standards of the day.

stoat
04-17-2005, 01:37 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1113741444_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1113741444_large.jpg)

The lad wil be looking askance at the queen but I don\'t think he\'s really there with her.

The hair is still the old plastic stuff. Just washed it and can't do a thing with it.

stoat
04-18-2005, 12:01 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1113822117_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1113822117_large.jpg)

Not a lad for bright colours, when just about everyone wore bows and silk. All the work here is going to be getting his calves right

stoat
04-21-2005, 10:25 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1114075514_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1114075514_large.jpg)

A job I hate. needs a bit more work with the old bones but it's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

stoat
04-21-2005, 10:30 AM
I workded on his shoe for about an hour, and found I had the old super glued toe with bones. Pretty dim, I should have made his foot with him standing on points like a ballet dancer to get the bone to work proper. Oh well, it's all part of god's great learning curve. :cry:

handlebar
04-22-2005, 02:58 PM
Dem bones, dem bones, dem pesky bones.... i feel your pain Stoat. The Bard is lookin cool though, keep up the good work.

stoat
04-22-2005, 05:03 PM
Thanks Handlebar :D It's the beauty of 3d, having to learn osteopathy on top of all the other stuff. I don't think I've had a hot cup of, anything, since I got into this.

stoat
04-23-2005, 08:49 AM
It's Shaky's birthday today :) :applause: :applause:

I put the two characters together in the theatre and ran into memory problems :cry: So I dumped the theatre and lizzy's hair to free it up a bit.

I think that I'll now use frontal projection, generate uv's, and paint on the bumps and hair for just the one view. I suppose this will make it a sort of 3d/2d hybrid and not really allowed in either competition category but at least I'll end up with some sort of finished work.

My own fault, I go out the door saying, "more ram, or lots of beer" you can guess which wins every time :argh: :hmm:

stoat
04-23-2005, 05:29 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1114273775_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1114273775_large.jpg)

screen grab of the two together.

6foot5
04-23-2005, 07:24 PM
some nice work, and engaging commentary, im jealous of your progress :applause:

one thing, its not obvious to those unaware of helger(such as myself) just how this conveys the 'master / servant' relationship...could you elaborate on this pls, just so i can understand and enjoy the image more. :)

thanks.

stoat
04-23-2005, 09:22 PM
Hegel was a German idealist philosopher, who wrote a whole lot of stuff on the master and servant. he looks at alienation but he splits it into two mirrors, the alienation of the servant differs from that of the master. The master sees himself in the world but it's ultimately empty because the master has merely ordered the world. The servant fails to see him/herself in a world that they have in fact created. Both destroy each other and power resides in an abstraction seeming to impose itself from the outside.

Elizebeth and Shakespeare struck me as a bit more of a subtle look at this dual aspect to man's alienation. There are loads of ways that you can play the master and servant game with them. Which is which? Oddly, I can say that there is a nod towards feminism in this, yet I haven't seen one entry yet that addresses that issue head on. Nobody must have heard John Lennon"s, "woman is the slave of the slave."

I'l lighten up now. Talking about that, i've only got two lights in this, I feel stupid putting in a lighting shot of two lights. Yet the Elizebethan tonal mind seemed to go for a two light set up. Really the sun and a bounced light.

Back to the grind of trying to get these people's hair right :cry: :cry:

6foot5
04-24-2005, 03:11 AM
whoa! im gonna have to take a minute to get my head around that....thanks for explainingthough. /me googles hegel....../me googles idealist.................../me googles philosophy.

............/me googles german.



;)

stoat
04-24-2005, 12:42 PM
Emanuel Kant is the guy for frying the old grey cells. He wrote a book, the "Critique of Pure Reason," the size of a small office block. No one could understand it, so his publisher asked him to do a short explanation book. The explanation book is the size of the Empire State Building, and people have to read the first book to try and work out what the hell the "simple" explanation book is on about. :D

Anyways, I tried that frontal mapping idea and no go. The aspect ratio for the background image is out so the maps don't fit right. I think i could get it to work but i don't want to be faffing about with that with so little time left to do this chall. So it's back to uvmapper to get te textures on :banghead:

Perhaps if someone invented a box with a lens and silver coated paper, we could point it at people and create a facimile of them on the paper :) I think I'll patent the idea and call it a "stoatotype facimile duotonal whatsit." Everyone will want one and 3d graphics companies will go out of business :bounce: :bounce:

stoat
04-25-2005, 06:27 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1114450043_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1114450043_large.jpg)

Improved her hair, I think with the bump map on it it wil look pretty good.

stoat
04-25-2005, 06:35 PM
Well, uvmapper was no good, so I worked out how to frontal map the model image back onto the model and paint the hair on.

stoat
04-27-2005, 11:21 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1114597293_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1114597293_large.jpg)

I did a test render with my one light; sunlight; switched off but prefered it back on as it adds a sort of oil painting effect which i think fits the period quiet well.

6foot5
04-27-2005, 11:45 AM
i'll tell u what, that hair has come out well, good job.

stoat
04-27-2005, 12:05 PM
Cheers :thumbsup: do your friends call you six foot by the way :)

When I thought I'd frontally map the first render back onto the scene, I gave it a test. Now, I had planned on painting over the face a basic skin tone and adding some noise. The frontal texture has skin tones form the first render, so rendering again darkens it, if you follow me. But I like the effect the way it is, it gives it a sort of Holbien look. An Elizebethan digital camera would have a scummble button on it I think. It would be a shock to time travellers to find that all their snaps came back in the art styles of the period visited :applause: All ones sneaky portrait shots of Cleopatra coming back from Boots as profile shots :D Great stuff; qauntum mechanics is a strange and terrible thing.

Changing the subject; I always take a look at the top of the challenge thread when I post. So I can see how many "look sees" I've had. Weird stuff :argh: :hmm: Some people have billions of hits and others hardly any :eek: Is there any chance of putting up a couple of new smileys? I want a Freemasons one and a Knights of Columbo. Not that I would be so unprincipled as to use them of course. Well, maybe on the last picture, if i knew what secret body the judges were in. My luck I'd pick the wrong smiley :cry: :cry:

6foot5
04-27-2005, 01:29 PM
hey stoat, i dont understand the problem u r having with uv mapping???

and who the hell are the knights of columbo? :eek: ur right about the lacking range of smileys , sometimes its hard to convery the subtle nuances of an expresion with just a choice of either a :wise: or a :bounce: .

handlebar
04-27-2005, 02:11 PM
Another post to add to your tally Stoat. I think your characters are coming along splendidly, they are going to make a fine couple. http://www.cgtalk.com/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.cgtalk.com/images/icons/icon13.gif

Gunilla
04-27-2005, 03:21 PM
Lizzy is looking real good in her new hair - nice job :thumbsup:

stoat
05-01-2005, 12:35 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1114947353_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1114947353_large.jpg)

I put the poor git's eyebrows too high up. still, it's looking a bit better than it was. I don't think I'll finish this though, it's just nowhere near good enough.

stoat
05-02-2005, 01:37 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1115037439_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/6979/6979_1115037439_large.jpg)

Well, not too happy with this, nuff said.

jddog
05-02-2005, 01:44 PM
I put the poor git's eyebrows too high up. still, it's looking a bit better than it was. I don't think I'll finish this though, it's just nowhere near good enough.

too soon to say you will not finish that ! :bounce: we are here to give you all the support for the continuation on your work stoat :buttrock: You have made a great work until now, don't stop it !

jdd

stoat
05-02-2005, 01:46 PM
I think i'll put the last photoshop comp entry in but not bother with the last one. I don't like the Shakespeare figure, he looks like he's sat down on a cucumber. Still, at least i got nearly all the way with this challenge :) I hope the next one is after character and human expressions as well, because i think that everyone has had to learn a lot.

Cheers everyone who contributed to my thread, your rewards will be great in heaven :thumbsup: Mind i haven't got much pull in that department, as i'm an athiest :cry:

jddog
05-03-2005, 03:29 PM
I think i'll put the last photoshop comp entry in but not bother with the last one. I don't like the Shakespeare figure, he looks like he's sat down on a cucumber. Still, at least i got nearly all the way with this challenge :) I hope the next one is after character and human expressions as well, because i think that everyone has had to learn a lot.

Cheers everyone who contributed to my thread, your rewards will be great in heaven :thumbsup: Mind i haven't got much pull in that department, as i'm an athiest :cry:

:hmm: sad that you want continue... you made excellent effort on your work and well I can understand that aren't the wonderful result als you expected but you made great things. Challenges like this one (and I made for this too) are excellent purpose to learn, and you made big steps here.

I hope to see you in a next challenge, wish all the best. In any case: :applause: bravo for all the work made until now !

jdd

Cartesius
05-03-2005, 03:47 PM
Yeah, too bad you won't finish this one but like you say, it's a great learning process. And there will always be anothe rchallenge just around the corner :)

/Anders

stoat
05-03-2005, 04:25 PM
Thanks guys :blush: next time we'll knock them dead :wip: :cool: :beer:

6foot5
05-03-2005, 05:27 PM
:eek: stoat mate, are you sure you're giving up??? what a shame.:sad:

you had done so well and so much work, and i for one was enjoying your thread.

i reckon you may aswell go all the way. you have a great literary knowledge on which to draw upon, so u create some more interesting and different ideas than the usual scatily clad , sword wielding elf girl or muscle bound , horned demon type thing.
anyways , good luck whatever you decide to do, and make sure you're here for the next one.

ps ...pls feel free to return those words of encouragement in my thread:)

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