PDA

View Full Version : Thoughts on the Master and Servant theme


Fardak
03-28-2005, 11:55 PM
BH

Don't know if this is the right place to post this, but I can't find a place where a general discussion of the theme can take place. (Maybe an idea for next Challenge?)
Unfortunately, time (and my skill level:arteest: ) do not permit me to participate artistically(sp), but I had a few thoughts that may feed the creative fires. I have been browsing through the entrys and it seems that (aside from all the cliche interpretations) those portraying a actual master as opposed to an emotion or such are mostly portraying a controlling master and an unwilling servant.

That's a bit sad to me, because it misses a rich aspect of the master/servant relationship. Whether or not this is true, the kings of history were said to be great men, and were not masters because they imposed their rule on the populace. The populace understood the advantages to having a great man at their head, one who could take them places they could never go on their own. Again in the Middle Ages there was the apprentice system - another Master/Servant relationship that benefited the Servant while not removing the Master from his position of control. Even in our society there are examples of Masters who are not Masters because they abuse the control which they have but rather because they are uniquely capable of focusing and channeling resources and/or people using that control.

Students of the arts are always advised to make choices that maximize the emotional content of a piece. No one is arguing that there is intense emotion in a involuntary servitude. There is also, however, intense emotion in a willing Master/Servant relationship - think Mentor or Leader instead of Master and a world of positive emotion opens up without compromising the theme.
[end of mushy rant :) ]

If you have any thoughts on the theme, post them. Maybe they'll spark a masterpiece in someone's mind.

ntmonkey
03-29-2005, 01:01 AM
We all like to see some very deep meaningful pieces. However, I think there are some very good interpretations of on the topic. I have seen a few spins on the idea in my browsings and I think they're quite creative.

There is also the fine line where you do not want to lose your audience by going too deep into the interpretation. The trick is to create something that we can easily fit into the Master/Slave title, but then upon scrutiny, we find out more about the characters involved and how they are what/who they are. It's a very tough thing to do if you think about it.

I for one want to stick to simple idea. This is where I can learn and practice some techniques I've forgotten along the way. For me, the challenge is a "Back to Basics" project that will hopefully solidify some basic fundamentals of 3D, and pull me out of my super-specialized role that I perform at my job. I'm finding it quite tough to wear different hats and look good doing so. :D

In challenges like this, I think it's more important to start and finish than to have the most original or meaningful concept. I mean, why rule out comedy, parody, or just plain fun? It's all in the perception, my friend. Just because Calvin and Hobbes isn't painted in oils doesn't make it any less of a masterpiece than the Mona Lisa.

peace,

Lu

erilaz
03-29-2005, 01:11 AM
Although my idea isn't all that creative, i'm trying to establish a mood. It's the emotion of the piece rather than it's tangible content i'm trying to bring forward.
The challenges are about getting a piece of work done in a set amount of time. That's why it's a challenge, not a competition per se. The prizes are just a nice incentive.

CGmonkey
03-29-2005, 03:27 AM
My premise was to portray an emotion or feeling, and not be as cliché I knew most of the entries would be.

For example (as I've stated in my challenge info) I like the relationship between chewbacca and han solo in star wars. Brilliant stuff.

Anyway, I totally agree with you!

Fardak
03-29-2005, 04:16 AM
BH

Heartily agree with all that's been said - I wasn't saying that people should do deep meaningful pieces necessarily. As a matter of fact I would love to see humor and parody, which I feel is oddly underrepresented here given the popularity of such things. I just wanted to mention some aspects of the theme that have been overlooked, although not by everyone. I actually came up with ideas for images as I was typing and formulating the concept of a different look at Master and Servant.:) I think if guys would post their thoughts on the topic, reading that could spark some interesting ideas...

Edit: Calvin and Hobbes IS genius, isn't it:applause:

paperclip
03-29-2005, 06:32 AM
The best example of humor in M & S you'll see so far (to my knowledge) is digital bobert. Very funny indeed! He explores the theme in a very light hearted way and is fun to watch.

Fardak
03-29-2005, 03:42 PM
BH

*checking that one* I have seen humorous entries, and other humorous artwork on the site, but most people do serious stuff. Which is to be expected, but its a shame .:shrug: Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the serious stuff, but everyone loves the occasional lighthearted piece.

I'm not presuming to tell people what to create - just noting the facts.

Artbot
03-29-2005, 05:41 PM
BH

*checking that one* I have seen humorous entries, and other humorous artwork on the site, but most people do serious stuff. Which is to be expected, but its a shame .:shrug: Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the serious stuff, but everyone loves the occasional lighthearted piece.


I heard once that drama is universal, while humor is very subjective and often rooted in a specific culture that may not translate well (or at all) to another culture. For example, a mother being torn from her baby is universally understood as tragic and potentially dramatic. On the other hand, a comedy of manners about a hotel clerk may only be relateable to a small percentage of the population. Probably why most literary classics are dramas.

Fardak
03-29-2005, 07:29 PM
BH

Hmmmm... interesting point, although stylising should go over well in any culture. We don't see too much stylised stuff either. (I am generalising and I know there *is* stuff out there) I was sort of lumping all that kind material together. It was sort of a side comment anyway... I was mainly commenting that the negative, and in many instances shallow interpretation of the theme, while not necessarily doing damage to the quality of the finished pieces, is sadly, and unecessarily, limiting the concepts. I started the thread so people could discuss what the theme means to them and develop more interesting and original concepts.

Phynix
03-29-2005, 07:30 PM
i also choosed to make a more dramatic image
i have thought pretty much about the topic and i hope that my interpration will be interesting for one or two of the 150.000 users of cg talk :)

jmBoekestein
03-30-2005, 01:48 AM
I find the willing servant and nice master a terrible cliche quickly worn out. What would be interesting in such a case is their other endeavours or lifes if you will.

I think the drama of the theme and appeal is in the establishment of some power balance. In many cultures you will not be a master if your skills aren't up to it(excluding america of course, lol, eat me). But the truth is that the servant will want to be free, or grow. Can the balance shift? Where is the balance? How to portray it most importantly?

But that's what I see in it. Stories involve some evolution in them, or else everything stagnates and the interest of the viewer is lost. But I agree that this is not necessarily done through bad and good relationships. There are a lot of ways to do this but there will have to be some contrast in the relationship. And this is not easily done in a still without some strnog symbolism I think.

Fardak
03-30-2005, 04:58 AM
I find the willing servant and nice master a terrible cliche quickly worn out. What would be interesting in such a case is their other endeavours or lifes if you will.

I think the drama of the theme and appeal is in the establishment of some power balance. In many cultures you will not be a master if your skills aren't up to it(excluding america of course, lol, eat me). But the truth is that the servant will want to be free, or grow. Can the balance shift? Where is the balance? How to portray it most importantly?


When you say that you find it a "terrible cliche quickly worn out" are you thinking strictly in terms of willing SERVANT and nice MASTER, or are you also including the range of situations where a person may submit to another, or to a power etc etc, because he sees the greatness of that other person or power, or the benefit that he stands to gain?

I think I agree that the willing servant is easily worn out, but willing submission (for example the submission of an apprentice, or of a military man to his King) offers a rich range of possibilities IMHO. Just think, servitude born of love, admiration, respect, honor instead of servitude born of fear, force, or control and the like. Nothing come to mind??

edit: I definitely agree that there are many awesome concepts suggested by the issues you mention in unwilling M and S relationship - I am simply suggesting that there may be a broader understanding of the theme, including aspects I have not touched on or realized myself.

jmBoekestein
03-30-2005, 07:44 AM
It's personal taste maybe. I don't think the items you mentioned are boring, but in a still they are less interesting imo. Someone becoming an apprentice, seems boring, but...as soon as this apprentice has to make a sacrifice or overcome something in his life it becomes worth while to show. Don't you agree, I mean just the knight being the knight because he really wants to seems boring to me. Anyway, it's not something you'd write home about because there are other things to do.

ntmonkey
03-30-2005, 10:13 AM
When you say that you find it a "terrible cliche quickly worn out" are you thinking strictly in terms of willing SERVANT and nice MASTER, or are you also including the range of situations where a person may submit to another, or to a power etc etc, because he sees the greatness of that other person or power, or the benefit that he stands to gain?

*snip*



Ahh, the fantasy world filled with brown-nosing. :D

peace,

Lu

Enayla
03-30-2005, 11:08 AM
I decided to go with a theme of master-servant being a coin thrown and still in the air. Undecided, if you will - nature and mankind both master and servant towards one another. I hope I'm still within the framework of the theme itself, but I like to think that I am. Depicting master and servant not as degradation (one triumphing arrogantly over the other) nor as a willing submission, but as something that they're forced into, that will be decided over time and by both chance and action. Eh, anyway...

... I don't think at all that most of the entries are cliché. When I look through the topics, I see a lot of wonderful interpretations that would never have occurred to me off the bat. At the end of the day, I really think that each person's choice of interpretation says a little about them - well, not a little, in fact... a lot.

Only a wonderful topic can bring that out in people.

Equinoxx
03-30-2005, 11:16 AM
I kind of went along the same line Linda,

Trying to have an equal balance between the master and the servant making the viewer wonder who infact is master and and who's servant.

Stepping away from the 1st thought that would naturaly occur of a dominator and a submissor.

Nehym
03-30-2005, 02:15 PM
Quite interesting thread.

I joined the challenge last week but i guess i should have waited a little because my ideas are just running everywhere; having too much inspiration/ideas and not really knowing what to do with them or which to choose.

Though, i too went for the duality the master/servant can have, that one can be the master AND the servant at the same time and vice versa.. And also for the not-so-bad master/servant relationship...

But i guess i can manage to pull it off.. I have to actually. I want to push myself to start painting/drawing again because all those ideas in my head needs to come out. I curse myself to have stopped some years ago. Now i only sit in a mess of unfinished work and this is scary... So the challenge hopefully will bring me back on the track...

And this post made me have a little spark of inspiration in my head.. Writting this and thinking about it some more...

Do you think it is possible to have 2 parallel master/servant relationship in the same piece? Both of my main ideas could be together because they touch very similar beings... What do you think?

(Sorry about the weird english in some places.. and the confuseness ;))

cha0t1c1
03-30-2005, 03:12 PM
for me, it took a long time until I tought about the relation between the soldier and the flag... the relation between a soldier and a ruler is fine and known, but the deeper relation is of the soldier and the flag...you can hate the ruler, but still defend your flag(or your country symbolized by the flag).

Fardak
03-30-2005, 04:05 PM
BH

@ Linda: I don't think they are cliche either. I was just noting some aspects of the theme that I have not seen yet. BTW I love your concept.. waiting to see the finished piece.

@ jmB : Exactly! :) Servitude itself is boring, its the emotions it brings out which create art. It has the capacity to bring out negative emotions when it is involuntary, but it also has the capacity to bring out very strong positive emotions.

A Secret Service guy guarding the President is lame, but a Secret Service guy jumping in front of a bullet to save the President - that's drama. Self-sacrifice. Just like a servant who is being reigned in with a leash while trying to escape is interesting while the same servant accepting his fate is boring. No active emotion in that scene.

(Unless you are portraying some interesting dynamic in the relationship, like Linda is, for example. And that is alot harder to pull off than an obvious emotional moment.)

Lillie, could you explain your idea?

jmBoekestein
03-30-2005, 05:55 PM
Fardak, what I find very interesting also is the fact that those strong emotions could easily conflict with eachother. Especially when facing a very tight corner in ones life. That's why I chose a twisting story(or should I say twisted:rolleyes: ). The characters are largely incapable of dealing with the situation, and indeed, the coin starts falling. I guess I went the same line as Enayla and Yves Adam too, looking back. I only thoroughly enjoyed watching the coin bounce wildly and out of control until it lands somewhere in the shadows.
[btw, What does BH mean?:D ]

Lillie, yes you can. Yin/Yang's, there's no good without evil and vice versa. There's a whole spectrum of intricacies!!! Go for it!:scream:

chaot1c1, seems interesting all right. I remember loads of movies working that theme, some a tad bit better than the other though:shrug: . It will be interesting to see your approach!

Enayla, wish I'd have something short and simple to add, I just don't. :shrug:

now to go check that digital Bobert out, hmmm...

Fardak
03-30-2005, 06:45 PM
BH

I want to mention again that I am not pushing any particular aspect of the theme, just pointing out possiblities people may have missed. I myself see great potential in the theme as a whole, regardless of the aspect you choose to portray.

Do you mind elaborating on your comments jm?

As far as the "BH" thing goes, let me preface by saying that explaining these sort of things always makes me feel frustrated that all the wackos and proselytisers give religion a bad name. (I once saw a quote, not sure by whom, or the exact wording, but the point was that nothing does more damage to religion than when fools defend it.)

That having been said, BH is an abbreviation of the Hebrew "B'Ezras Hashem" (literally, "With the help of G-d". I have seen it written in English as "By the Grace of G-d"). In my "section" of Jewish culture it is appended to documents as a realization that all that we do is with the help of G-d, that we can do nothing without His help and His gift of life, strength, inspiration, and so on. (How is that for Master/Servant relationship?:) ) It is also constantly verbalized when speaking of plans, both past successes and future endeavors.

Pardon the breach of etiquette by discussing religion here - I am merely answering the question.:shrug:

erlik
03-30-2005, 06:50 PM
I heard once that drama is universal, while humor is very subjective and often rooted in a specific culture that may not translate well (or at all) to another culture.

Maybe not as a specific detail, but there's humour that's universal.

Every culture I know laughs at the urban sophisticate/ country yokel opposition. Of course, it doesn't mean that the sophisticate always has the upper hand.

Every country or nation that I know of has an ethnic/regional group that it laughs at. And when you come to that ethnic/regional group, they laugh at another group for exactly the same reasons others laugh at them.

So, everybody has a group that is considered stupid, lazy, greedy, miserly. Everybody laughs at practically the same things. Otherwise you wouldn't have such different groups as Germans and Turks having very similar heroes like Til Eulenspiegel and Nasruddin Hodja. Tales from 1001 Night also have similar themes.

Among those themes, stupid master and clever servant is not insignificant. And yes, what Yves Adam describes fits into the mold. It's quite old and venerable topic. Off the top of my head, I seem to recall something in Boccaccio and Chaucer, but my memory might be deceiving me.

I've got a couple of ideas for the challenge, but I'll wait a bit, cause I'm not certain whether I can pull any of them off. (Did I mention that I'm total crap at organics? :D)

Fardak
03-30-2005, 07:01 PM
BH

Hmmmm... that reminds me of Carl Jung and his claims of a "collective subconscious" as the reason for the similarities across different cultures of symbols, myths etc, and Joseph Campbells "Hero's Journey" which sees all stories, in all cultures, as containing the same underlying components. Interesting theories, for those who haven't read their stuff yet.

jmBoekestein
03-30-2005, 07:59 PM
It would be the only logical conclusion. If we were all somehow incompatible with eachother we would only conflict, we wouldn't procreate and would have gone extinct long ago. Gives a slightly more material meaning to "we are all one" doesn't it.

@Fardak
Thanks for the explanation, I'm sure it will be overlooked to use the word God. HB, lol.
What I meant boils very much down to psychology actually. For instance, the will to survive and love for someone else can conflict quite readily. I would be fascinated by the struggle and anguish someone would have to go through to come out of it satisfied, if such a thing is possible. I went for that straight away in my story. That's all.

Nehym
03-30-2005, 08:14 PM
Lillie, could you explain your idea?

Sure can. :) And i won't step into the religion discussion because i fear i won't be able to express myself correctly enoguh in english, hard finding the right word sometimes.. No troubles for ''all day talking'' but when it comes to some things more thoughtful, my little brain prefers to think in french..(actually it doesn,t prefers, it just do.. :s) :bounce:


So about my idea for the challenge, well both of my ideas that i wanted to incorporate in the same piece (Warning, confuseness alert!)

#1: I wanted to play on the duality of heart and reason and to associate them to logic/imagination. Often, 2 people see the same thing very differently because of those things. Or someone might always see the logical side of something while the other can imagine fancy things about it. So the master and the servant would be there, reason ruling over the heart and vice versa. How someone can be a slave to the way his/her brain works, if it sees in technicolor or in black and white, if you will. The Peter pan syndrom i guess. Ever saw the old Peter Pan movie with Robin Williams where he can't see the food? It's because he is a slave to his reason saying ''hey, those paltes are empty!'' but when he started to let go, he could see the food.

#2: The not-so-bad master/servant relationship. I wanted to depict the bond between the mother and the child. How the pregnant woman has to change her whole way of living for the good of the baby, the baby being now the master and her the servant but then, when it is born and has grown up, the relationship going the other way around and the mother being more of the master than the child, having to set rules etc yet still having to change her living habits and having to forget about herself a little or a lot for the good of the child. So some part of the initial relationship remains... Pretty confuse eh..?

So for #1 i wanted to have two children playing together, with the same toys, but having the part of the iamge where they each look at to reflect their thoguhts on it. The imaginative one would see little fairies, vivid colors, a warm, sunny day while the down to earth, logical one could see nothing but old simple garden... For #2, well it is somewhat obvious that there would be a mother and her child, and probably a third eprson, a pregnant woman, with various hints at the subject...

I felt like those 2 could easily be merged together. Having in the foreground the concept of #1 but in the background adding the mother and pregnant woman etc... But this could be complicated and i am not sure if it is allowed to have 2 concepts like this in the same piece?


Most of this being inspired by my brother,s girlfrind that gave birth to her first child about a month ago so i had a lot of discussion with her about motherhood, children etc.. It influenced me a lot i guess. :)

(Sorry about the long post.. :eek: )

erlik
03-30-2005, 08:19 PM
Well, yeah, both Jung with his archetypes and Campbell with his "Hero with a Thousand Faces" (that's the title of the book, if anyone's interested) were tryiing to explain the underlying patterns.

jmBoekestein
03-30-2005, 08:30 PM
Nice idea Lilie, you should do it. Maybe outline the entire cycle with all the characteristics you just showed. I'd love to see that. congrats on the new family addition!

Any thoughts on the probability of individualism here and in light of the threads subject?

lanedaughtry
03-30-2005, 08:47 PM
I love the theme.

I love that the theme has not only spawned a wealth of brilliant ideas but also a wealth of discussion/controversy around it.

As a matter of fact the only thing I don't love about it is that its wrapping up in the middle of E3. That I don't love.

-L

Fardak
03-30-2005, 08:56 PM
BH

Thanks for the explanation, I'm sure it will be overlooked to use the word God. HB, lol.

LOL! You mean by the mods? I type it that way because G-d's name is holy and is not written out or verbalized for everyday usage. That respect carries over into the English equivelent.

About that conflict between self-interest and love/respect/submission to the other, that's a point of tension particular to a willing Servant. An unwilling Servant has only self-interest. In that situation, the tension is between Master and Servant. With a willing Servant, the tension point can be a within the mind/heart of the Servant, in a decision he has to make. How about a Servent unsure of whether he wants to remain under the Master or not.

As I am writing this I am realizing that thinking the words "Master" and "Servent" really limits my imagination. My mind keeps associating the two with the traditional scenario of one person controlling another. *Note to self: Try substituting different synonyms for M & S, that have more neutral or different meanings and associated emotions.*

Sorry for being dense, but I don't understand what you mean when you say probability of individualism. Care to clarify? (Blame it on the sleep-deprivation)

@ lillie: Je parle francais aussi, mais je sais pas si la francais canadienne c'est la meme francais.
Pardon the spelling and grammer - French is like my fourth language. :surprised
Interesting ideas... keep in mind that the challenge is to portray the Master and Servant theme, so make sure that is evident from your image. Both of your ideas revolve around the fact that someone is under the control of something else, but the way you are presenting the visual, I don't think I would see that as the theme of the piece without being told. I think the ideas can work but try to bring out the theme more clearly IMHO.

I love the perception idea (#1) but don't read Master/Servant in the piece. #2 is a more grounded example of M & S, but also needs a more clear visual idea. IMHO stay away from mixing two distinct concepts... it will only make the image confusing for the viewer to read. Especially here where it is like two major unconnected plotlines in a story, as opposed to a plot and a sub-plot.

Hope I am not confusing you with the English.

Ilikesoup
03-30-2005, 09:20 PM
A Secret Service guy guarding the President is lame, but a Secret Service guy jumping in front of a bullet to save the President - that's drama.

A good example. But it might take people several concept sketches before they hit on that idea, and then even more work to get a compelling image. It's still early in the challenge and people's ideas are still brewin' in their heads. Al Hirschfeld said that his big elaborate drawings were the quickest to do and his simplest line drawings that he's known for were the result of intense revision trying to find that one signature trait that defines his subject.

Anyway, I'm having a ball trolling through the threads, BTW. Some people have already found that signature trait in their concept while others are shooting in the dark, but I love to see the creative process at work. It's interesting how some people throw out sketch after sketch as they develop their ideas, while others write paragraph after paragraph before they do a single sketch.

Drat, I've rambled off topic.:rolleyes:

Nehym
03-30-2005, 09:36 PM
You are not being confusing at all with english. :) I can actually read and lsiten to english without any problems, also speaking and writting, it's more when it comes to some terms etc. :) But i'm getting used to it. As for the french from candana and from france, it's about the same yes, with some difference. One can clearly understand the other, pretty much like english from USA and those from UK.

Back to the subject.. I too thought that it would be a bit hard to really illustrate the master/servant theme with this idea.. But i did not think of anything else to date. Though i still have plenty of time to think of another concept or find another way to illustrate one of those two... But hm... It's still food for thought because i didn't want to go into the typical too obvious master/servant relationship...

I'll see i guess.. Since for now i cannot do a thing since Photoshop decided to enter the freezing festival once again (long story.. D: ), i'll be able to just juggle with the ideas in my head. Or i could try and learn more how to use Painter but i'm not feeling comfortable enough in it to paint something meant to be used for a challenge with it (not that i would win or anything, but still.. I'd like to be at ''my best'' and since i am used to PS... ah well, too much talking and rambling, like always...)

Well well this is it. Written enough for now.

Nehym
03-30-2005, 09:40 PM
It's interesting how some people throw out sketch after sketch as they develop their ideas, while others write paragraph after paragraph before they do a single sketch.

Drat, I've rambled off topic.:rolleyes:

I did not read all of your post before writting mine but now i read this and i feel kind of pointed at! [insert exagerated surprised face here]. But no worries hehe. I do write paragraphs after paragraphs just throwing ideas here and there, but that's the way i am. :)

Thoguh i guess just carelessly sketching random ideas on the subject could be better for me, to get my little artsy hand back...

On the other hand, i tend to always write too much. If you see soemone writting 25 lines for something that could be written in 3, that's me! :bounce:

(Sorry about the double post)

cha0t1c1
03-31-2005, 02:52 AM
imo Ilove all the themes, it's the way they're portrayed that's creative, even when it's a newbie, it's just great to see the humongous amount of talent here :drool: :D

Enayla
03-31-2005, 06:55 AM
Hm, Does anyone know if it's possible to do two themes, side by side, but only submit one of them as the 'final image'. I honestly can't decide between these two ideas that I suddenly have and I'd like to develop both images fully to see which is 'better' of the two.

Sigh.

Equinoxx
03-31-2005, 11:21 AM
I don't think that's a problem Linda.
I seem to recall that question came up in previous challenges and it was ok.

Nehym
03-31-2005, 03:24 PM
I don't why there would be a problem either Linda. As long as you have all the milestones for the one you pick to be the final.

I was thinking of doing something similar since i had some concepts in mind and having them in the same piece would be way too confusing for the viewer (and probably myself. ;))

----------
By the way, thanks to those who responded to my posts and gave me their opinions. Helped a lot, i'm now going on a new track. :)

P.S.: Nice new avatar Enayla! :bounce:

jmBoekestein
03-31-2005, 03:29 PM
I've seen people submitting loads of different ideas as concepts. It's probably fine.

In the FAQ section it states that you can't have multiple entries, but everything submitted is a milestone. Maybe you should post a question there to clear it up.

Adamos
04-05-2005, 12:06 PM
Wow excellent thread!

I've got a dilemma here guys, could you help me out?


1. First of all I'd like my entry to carry a message...thinks that's important, cause art makes a difference and if it can help others in life that's a huge think imo.

2. I love humour, but this is a bloody serious issue in the world today (even inside families, in countries, at workplaces, hierarchy just IS everywhere...) so I thought I'd take it seriously...
I thought of addiction being a number one problem to millions...(drugs, alcohol, smoking...etc). So I thought I'd try do an image that warns us about these dangers (you can't warn people about this enough!

3. Cliché - not cliché, this one's a tough one, cause I chose a VERY cliché relationship (puppet), but gave it a twist (at least I think so)


arrrgghhh gotta go, will check back later, couldn't finish this post,

Q: does my image carry a clear message? and could it be original, but cliché at the same time?

check back later!
peace

Fardak
04-05-2005, 06:03 PM
BH

@ Adamos: I think your image (the self-pupeteer) is great.. which introduces an interesting Master and Servant angle worth exploring. One person who is both master and servant and how that affects him as a whole- It's similar to the concepts where love, or any emotion, is the master, but you included habits and addictions, in other words even things which are not as deeply rooted as love and such. In other words, anything that influences the way we behave, particularly when it advances to being compulsive but even before then.

Slave to our tastes and preferences, to our hobbies and pasttimes? When and when not? Interesting food for thought.

Reading your thread also sparked the realization that a artist/performer can be a servant to his audience and fans.:applause:

NOOB!
04-05-2005, 06:57 PM
ah yes,master and servant.

my entry is kinda metaphorical.explaining how we are controlled by media etc.

however the *metaphorical* meaning isn't very clear,which is great,cos i like to make people think.

i like the challenge,i like all challenges.

its also interesting how people are motivated more ,when there are prizes at hand.which is sumthin else i had an idea for an entry,but let it slip.

i kinda annoys me how an art newbie,sumone who has never drawn before in thier life, posts up an entry and gets tons of help with it,then when they go to post in the WIP forum,they get no response.which is kinda sad,because people shud be willing to help others without wanting a wacom cintiq or painter 8.lol

i urge many people new to art to get in on the challenge.

phew...kinda drifting off topic now...hah! sorry i do that allot.i like to get me views out.

all the entries look fantastic so far.

good luck to everyone,and don't get discouraged.

paperclip
04-09-2005, 10:22 AM
So, who are your favorites to win so far?

ozhaver
04-12-2005, 01:16 AM
Cliché is not always a bad thing- if handled right. ;-) Most people tend to forget about this. We can't be constantly demanding avant garde pieces, sometimes is good to re-visit and re-vision the past (which is from where cliché is formed).

CGmonkey
04-12-2005, 01:26 AM
Cliché is not always a bad thing- if handled right. ;-) Most people tend to forget about this. We can't be constantly demanding avant garde pieces, sometimes is good to re-visit and re-vision the past (which is from where cliché is formed).

Actually, I consider Clichés being very bad.

If you use clichés in a smart way, then it's masterfull.

jmBoekestein
04-12-2005, 11:59 PM
Well, there is a theory going around that there are only about 36 stories that were ever told. That is in one way or the other. It stands to reason considering that the amount of emotions we experience is limited. So in simplified form it could be tru, then infinitely varying it is a must I think because a lot of stories are standing out on their own. But I guess it indeed turns into clich'e sometimes.

ozhaver
04-16-2005, 01:38 AM
Actually, we discussed that in the Writing & Style course.

http://www.io.com/~jlockett/RPG/HEGGA/Stuff/frp-plots.html (http://www.io.com/%7Ejlockett/RPG/HEGGA/Stuff/frp-plots.html)

Basically, it is almost impossible to depart completely from the 36 plots. If you are an illustrator you will work with plots quite a lot...anyone versed and witty enough can find cliché in any work/artist. In the end everything can become cliché by simple overuse. However, I love cliché when it comes to comedy (parody mostly). I still don't think it is always a bad thing. Then again I don't see the world in black and white; I stick to the grey.

CGTalk Moderation
04-16-2005, 01:38 AM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.