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View Full Version : Master and Servant 2D Entry: Sander Taal


kinnas
03-27-2005, 02:32 PM
Sander Taal has entered the Master and Servant 2D.

Challenge Page (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/masterandservant/view_entries.php?challenger=6742)

Latest Update: Final Image: Sociorealism
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1115120657_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1115120657_large.jpg)

The final image for my entry. Sociorealism from a different angle. Lets call it a behind the scenes look.

kinnas
03-27-2005, 04:12 PM
oops, doublepost, messy messy : O

kinnas
03-27-2005, 04:40 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1111941613_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1111941613_large.jpg)

right. so here's my initial concept. this bloke, probably french or russian or something else culturelike walking down the street. The time is around the great depression, clothing and atmosphere to fit that. (that black and white seems to suit it but I'm thinking going for washed out beige overtone kinda feel perhaps. I'll fiddle around)

the master - servant idea is represented by a wad of money in his hand, hard earned factory work (with the factory in the background, smoke littering the sky) he is a slave to the money and to his dreams that only money can bring.

compositionally the characters face fits in with the golden mean. also, the factory is placed close to him as in not wanting to let him go, always looming over him, whilst there's still a long road to go (and covered in shadow). I'm thinking perhaps cutting the house a bit from the bottom and bring the pathway up higher, it sorta falls out of the frame right now.

MDN67
03-27-2005, 04:51 PM
Hi, welcome. The concept is original by report of the other. I wait a more detailled skretch, good idea, really


one question......Why a french?:)

kinnas
03-27-2005, 05:41 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1111945266_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1111945266_large.jpg)

most of it is set now. The pose is going to cause me troubles, I just know it but that's for the next update. Conceptwise I've added posters on the wall and the misty steam/smoke kinda atmospheric element, cold air blowing from behind him. They're going to further bring forth the depressed mood.

I'm just gonna upload this as lineart. It's not the concept stage anymore, nor is it colours. so it's the inbetween rendering period which is what lineart can aslo be about. yeah.

NOOB!
03-27-2005, 05:42 PM
looking good,lets see more!!

kinnas
03-27-2005, 07:27 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1111951623_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1111951623_large.jpg)

He's supposedly french cos I have a fancy with the french (especially 18th century but that's that. It's up to the viewer to choose if the nationality matters at all) he could be any country though, it's fairly generic. Most people associate the great depression with USA so he might just as well be american.

so far so good. the beige old photo deal seems to work and I'll probably stick with this. I'm thinking about darkening the whole picture and redoing the head. Looking at the viewer makes him all confronting even though he's supposed to be more scared and tired. Time to paint in the money.

marcheen
03-27-2005, 07:34 PM
and yet another nice sketch. i think you've created the roght mood, that is depressing mood.

Ant4d
03-28-2005, 12:30 AM
hey mate. i see you've done some progress since i saw it last time. very nice mood. it's going to be interesting to see where are you going to take this..
keep it up kinnas. i'll be watching you:)

ChrisThatGuy
03-28-2005, 12:39 AM
It's looking very nice. And I like the concept. Looking forward to seeing this one finished.

Miker
03-28-2005, 12:47 AM
you've really set the right mood with the environment, however im not sure about the man. his expression is well.. expressionless. what i suggest is maybe he could be looking down at the money and realising that he is a slave to money. but i dont know, thats just a thought. great job friend

OliveBeard
03-28-2005, 11:15 AM
Cool. Very depressing colors. I'm curious where this will be taken. Good luck!

OKMER
03-28-2005, 11:26 AM
Cool. Very depressing colors. I'm curious where this will be taken. Good luck!..

Same thing!!!:thumbsup:

kinnas
03-28-2005, 03:20 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1112023207_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1112023207_large.jpg)

Some independantly received crits directed my attention to the factory looming in the background. Mainly that it didn't stand out enough to have an impact which I hope I have now taken care of. I can also contrast it up a bit but I hope I don't have to.
Refining and semirendering going on troughout the picture. I'm open to suggestions on how to make the money more recognizable. Fiddled with the perspecitve, the lampposts now line up, as does the window. The stairs don't line up in theory but I think they look around believable, any thoughts on that? Also I have tackled and finally won the pose I think. The kind of pissed but trapped feel, head pulled between the shoulders and grudingly staring at the money earned. One-hand-in-the-pocket-attitude. Also a secret hidden cat. let's call unnoticable cats a habbit.

Photoshop trickery! I notice the image was lacking contrast, so I painted more darks on mr. bourgeois. And for comparison with the unatractive but maximum I did a little autocolours which gave me this nifty blueish overall tone. Cold. It has more air, is less claustrofobic and more uncharitable. I think it's better. I'll wait for imput from others before continuing though.

and thank you all for support : )

Merls
03-28-2005, 03:38 PM
good to see you working on such a fantastic image kinnas :D

kinnas
03-28-2005, 08:36 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1112042202_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1112042202_large.jpg)

A gift from heaven: the solution to fixing the base of the house. The house is a bit thin though, might widen that a bit even though houses were indeed small and most of it's out of view. Also the base of the house is a bit out of perspective but feels right. I think the factory is up a small hill.
I'm loosing the mood here though. I think I'll pull back the hat a bit and reveal some facial emotion. Maybe bring back the other arm.

But that's all for tomorrow.

NOOB!
03-28-2005, 08:38 PM
looks excellent great details in the jacket.

Dreamshark
03-28-2005, 11:06 PM
Very nice work. It's good to see somthing a little more romantic. The coat and scarf are looking great. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

ChristianHammer
03-28-2005, 11:17 PM
Looking really good but I agree you need to bring out the factory a bit more. I didn't even notice it at first. Love the concept.

Ant4d
03-29-2005, 12:02 AM
some great progress kinnas. you work is very hmm.. how to say. it has something in it. and it's great to see that. you are not just drawing monsters..

i love the guy:) he looks funky.
the bottom part of the window looks just a little bit out of perspective..if you compare it to the bottom line of the house.. it kind of shoots too much into the air.

maiz777
03-29-2005, 02:59 PM
I can see it's taking shape already, very nice. Alley and factori is coming out very nicly. I agree with Ant, there is something in that picture. Can't wait finished one:)
BTW I think I found the cat too :)

yanimator
03-29-2005, 08:47 PM
Very nice! I really like the approach. The blue theme works better for me. I like how you made the smoke stacks. The only minor thing that's borthering me is that it's in the center of the pathway, and how the 3 stacks are progressing in height from left to right. maybe have one taller (suggesting it's slightly closer) while the other stacks more faded to give them more depth? Good luck!! It's looking really nice

kinnas
03-30-2005, 07:01 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1112209300_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1112209300_large.jpg)

painted in the wall, fixed his pose a bit, added a newspaper (and some more garbage on the way) painted some textures. I should probably figure out any reflected lights on the bloke though. also fixed the chimneys in the back, thanks for pointing that out yanimator. I should probably repaint the lampposts to be more of that era, right now they're too 80.

CoreyArtE
03-30-2005, 07:07 PM
Wow what a change from your initial sketch. I must say I rally love this latest up, and the whole concept behind it. One way you can strengthen the theme even more for the man being a slave to money is by puting an evil face on the factory, or the money..Or even show the guys face..But have his eyes empty like a zombies eyes, while he's counting his coins...and maybe you should give him a bag of money instead of just coins (at first I thought those coins were drug pills... like as if he were a slave to drugs)...Just some food for thought. But anyway this is now one of my favorite threads! I'm defiantly going to keep an eye out for this one!:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

gra7
03-30-2005, 07:09 PM
wow man.. great job !!

watiting to see more !

c ya !

Gamoron
03-30-2005, 08:23 PM
This is coming along brilliantly man. I know this theme of yours all to well. Always felt like a very grey drab day when I worked in a factory or doing construction. Counting those pennies and wasting them on the weekend. Hopefully this guy is saving for his kids art school training. :D Great work and rendering.
:beer:

sandsekh
03-31-2005, 05:42 PM
your idea is really interesting....and coming out really good..:thumbsup:

teknotek83
03-31-2005, 06:50 PM
Your painting is coming along quite nicely. The concept works well, but it might be hard to identify the concept just from looking at the painting. "master and Servant" isn't the first thing that comes to mind from seeing this. Perhaps it's just me. Good luck, though!

NOOB!
03-31-2005, 06:52 PM
still looking great!!

Trenox
03-31-2005, 06:58 PM
Very nice idea and execution. Dont mind if some people dont "get it" - the idea is really original and strong and theres no need to overdo it by adding evil faces and such to the factory (imo) -just keep it clean and nice :)

dondiego
03-31-2005, 07:22 PM
I liked the concept a lot, although I think the "master&servant" idea could be a little more explicit like adding something to contrast the poor man (like a rich car at the background, i don`t know..)
anyway, keep working!
see ya

dondiego
03-31-2005, 07:26 PM
...or the contrast could be done by something on the page of the newspaper. Like "THE RICHEST MEN IN AMERICA" and the picture of the factory... just an idea :)

teknotek83
03-31-2005, 07:40 PM
Very nice idea and execution. Dont mind if some people dont "get it" - the idea is really original and strong and theres no need to overdo it by adding evil faces and such to the factory (imo) -just keep it clean and nice :)

I do "get it". In fact, the relationship between man and money was one of my preliminary ideas. I wasnt suggesting that evil faces should be added to the painting. I was just trying to say that maybe the angle or the poses could be adjusted to show the control money has over man. The way I'm interpreting the image right now is that a man just got off work and is looking to see how much money he has. The concept works through the image right now, but it can be pushed a lot further.

oneka
03-31-2005, 07:51 PM
Very good job!!!

g-nome
03-31-2005, 11:43 PM
as i told before...i like that wall http://pages.infinit.net/bluefire/Images/badthumbs.gif

Jezzarts
04-01-2005, 07:14 AM
This looks great as an image no doubt... very moody. The first impression I got was that he was very poor and had worked all day for peanuts... not even enough to feed the family. If I was to guess, I would have said that the factory was master. Another thought... make sure you make the money very clear as for a few seconds I thought they were pills! I know it's early days yet but thought I'd make these points anyway. best of luck, like I said... cool image!!:thumbsup:

Trenox
04-01-2005, 10:46 AM
teknotek83: not saying that you didnt get it or anything like that :) - quite clearly you did but it just sounded like you suggested that some people wouldnt get it and that it wasnt clear enough.

calisto-lynn
04-01-2005, 11:05 AM
great colours, its nice and dense. i envy your knowledge of shadows.

rynosseros
04-06-2005, 03:34 AM
I love the overall concept of this piece. In fact it reminds me of where I grew up in the north of England. If the guy was wearing a black donkey jacket, the shop was a pub (another kind of master?), more litter on the ground as well as more atmospheric pollution, I swear I was there!

kinnas
04-07-2005, 10:01 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1112907708_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1112907708_large.jpg)

thanks for the imput everyone. one of the future plans for this is to garbage up the streets : )
so I started rendering out the stairs though I might redo them. I think I fixed the pose. That's what you get with low planning in the beginning. Had to scratch the idea of him walking and made him just stand there, counting his pennies.
so much still to do

Kamjar
04-10-2005, 04:45 PM
Hey dude! I really like the concept.
And its looking really good already. Keep up!

kornel
04-11-2005, 06:27 PM
Do you find the perfect colors for the perfect mood! Grats!

best wishes: KornÚl

kinnas
04-11-2005, 08:16 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1113246995_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1113246995_large.jpg)

detailing out the stairs, painted the shadow side of the building, fiddled around with the face and things are slowly coming together.

navylete
04-11-2005, 11:45 PM
Hi, I like your picture. But I thing you can┤t win this challenge. It is a pity but although there is no doubt about the technical quality of your piece there is problem with your "civil" theme. I┤m afraid most people want to see here something like fantasy/scifi themes.

arLutiK
04-12-2005, 01:49 AM
I disagree navylete. your image is awesome, and the mood is wonderful. I think your concept is very original great work. :applause:

Kraull
04-12-2005, 04:20 PM
I think your scene is great! Your subject may be quite modern, but the subtlety of the relationship between the entity of the mill/factory and the character adds a lot to the quality of the piece. Great work so far! :)

kinnas
04-18-2005, 05:02 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1113840146_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1113840146_large.jpg)

So. Here I am. Almost done. Or am I done? Now up for public opinions and final crits. Everyone, have a go at it!

arLutiK
04-18-2005, 07:09 PM
I love your concept, I love the mood of your scene, but the onlybut I have is the lack of detail, final image is huge so details will show. But otherwise I love it, i say that just because most people are putting lots of time in little details.

navylete
04-21-2005, 10:23 AM
I would like to see this piece on top positions because its idea is one of the most strongest of this competition

sirBS
04-21-2005, 10:44 AM
Very good idea:thumbsup:

Vectorius
04-21-2005, 11:16 AM
It's a good concept and a nice image! that makes me think of my native area (north of France) where the mining activity was very developed... you should maybe add a "rest" (i don't know if it's the good translation??) Anyway, I puts a link to you to show oneself what i mean


http://perso.wanadoo.fr/cristonne/images/mines.jpg

kinnas
04-21-2005, 09:20 PM
oh wow! thanks Fiolka Alexandre! thats exactly what I was missing from the background shilouette : D

and thank you all for your support : ) So close to finishing the painting, yet so much to do : D

GhostInTheMachine
04-21-2005, 10:30 PM
you still have plenty of time and i thin k you should try and use it. i would work on this image alot more, it coud easily improve with texture and detailing. there isnt enough grit and dirt in it! really work some grime into those walls, stain the glass, his jacket looks shiny, the brick is dusty but new looking, the paper is clean and wheres the sheets that have blown around and got damp?
shapen up the image with 100% opacity brush strokes and a small grainy brush. the air looks clean, is it cold? then show his breath.
have a look at some historical pics of Stoke-on-Trent in England or the Rhondda in south Wales. The buildings in stoke are still stained black from the smog of mining. Work on it! :wip:
gl its a good image :thumbsup:

flyingP
04-21-2005, 11:04 PM
the subtlety of the relationship between the entity of the mill/factory and the character adds a lot to the quality of the piece. Great work so far! :)

quoted for agreement :D

Jean Genie
04-22-2005, 03:43 AM
I think it's looking very good, personally.
Here's a few details you could improve upon, but feel free to ignore them. I really like the general mood of the piece, so they're not crucial at all.

-we can see the pale brushes on the wall at the very left
-you might want to clarify the area the railing meets the wall
-the money still feels kind of fake (should be going in all directions and be all crumpled)
-I'm not sure about the double wood pannel at the bottom left corner
-I second on the idea of showing his breath (maybe through his nose)

That's about what I saw. It's a very refreshing entry.
I like it a lot.

taavi
04-24-2005, 07:29 AM
I like the idea a lot. Also i agree with ghost :)

(anna tuld :) )

calisto-lynn
04-24-2005, 10:25 AM
cool stuff, man. i looks like our real world.. unfortunatly.. full of factories. im goin out of my ideal world, and than ur picture whacks me to the ground. great work.:)

kinnas
04-25-2005, 06:23 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1114406582_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1114406582_large.jpg)

after taking into account many opionions received here and elsewhere, here's outcome #3
good enough to be final or is there still something bothersome?

Ilikesoup
04-25-2005, 06:19 PM
I really like this. I saw the thumbnail while looking through the entries so far and wondered where the master is. It's probably a stronger image without one -- it made me work to understand it, rather than "getting it" and just moving on to the next challenge entry. Just a thought:

I like that the fliers are nailed to the side of the shack, but the print of the factory seems wasted -- it doesn't say anything new. Maybe the building is a shop with a sign that says "out of business". Maybe there's an ad for jobs available. Maybe there's politial poster saying that a vote for this guy is a vote for jobs.

I dunno. The image is fine without it. The mood is great, the fence is wonderfully rickety and the shack is in need of repair. I agree that the bills in his hand could be a bit more obvious (bigger? more colorful like pound notes?) but this is a fine image indeed. Good luck!

Zephyri
04-25-2005, 06:33 PM
An original take on the theme, nice to see someone tackling the grittier side of realism. The subtle placement of the factory directly above him is great, and your colour pallette is very in keeping with the mood of the piece. Only thing that bothers me now is the lack of detail on the stones on the floor in the foreground. You've done such a great job with the wall and the man and the smoke, that the stones, the closest thing to the viewer look a little bland in all that detail. Just a few minor tweaks to enhance their uneveness and texture would be great. Only a minor point though, as it's looking great thus far!

kinnas
05-03-2005, 12:44 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1115120657_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6742/6742_1115120657_large.jpg)

The final image for my entry. Sociorealism from a different angle. Lets call it a behind the scenes look.

O.Martin
05-07-2005, 11:04 AM
Interesting concept. Like the painting, although I get a bit depressive looking at it. Good attention to details. :thumbsup:

GhostInTheMachine
05-07-2005, 11:16 AM
good work.

Ant4d
05-25-2005, 02:36 AM
hello my friend. it turned out really good. one of your best. it's very depressing indeed:) very estonian. congratulations.

levent
05-30-2005, 04:06 PM
woooaw wery interesting:wip:

BlacKeri
05-30-2005, 10:30 PM
WOW.
At first when I saw the entry I liked it a lot. But staring at it more made me love it LOTS! You know, when I started looking at the guy it made me feel sad :| + reading the description...
it's so emotional... I love it! Also, your style is beautiful - very painty, great job! :> <3

TheCleaner
05-31-2005, 09:42 AM
how strange to find an entry like this, when ive just completed an art essay on social realism, i studied this piece by early 20th century english painter Norman Cornish, its called 'Pit Road'... enjoy

http://img255.echo.cx/img255/3340/pitroad2bo.jpg

also similar, certainly in theme,this (http://img255.echo.cx/img255/842/thegantry9am.jpg) and this (http://img255.echo.cx/img255/9982/cornish2709to.jpg), also by Cornish

I think your entry is briliant, such a delight to see such work in a CG challenge

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