Car studio lighting recepies

[Snow Fox]

Hi....


only one question.....do u use HDRI??

[DodoPAN]

only one question.....do u use HDRI??

As stated before, it's an INDOOR scene so I'm not rushing to use any HDRI. The reflections over the car paint is done well by the self-illumination plane above.

Still, I found something very interesting here, on CGTalk. Check rodrigogua's thread, Studio Light Stup - FREE HDRI Map (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=207165). It's simple and amazing. The HDRI he made emulates the self illum. plane/planes.

Cool stuff !

[DodoPAN]

any other advices/setups ?

no one ? :eek:

[digones]

hi I believe this is a very interesting subject... I'm gonna keep an eye in this thread, but I don't have any advice for now


cheers

[Keymash]

I am also looking for an effective lighting setup for a chevy I have built, It's the last piece of the puzzle for this project.
I will try out the method from dodoPAN, but will keep an eye on this thread for more info.
I have tried playing around with different methods in 3ds max7, but render times prevent me from exhausting all options!

[Ian Jones]

This isn't a cg technique, but the pics may be of interest to you guys. This is how car studio lighting setups exist in the real world:

http://visions-unleashed.com/misc/11_700.jpg
http://visions-unleashed.com/misc/12_700.jpg
http://visions-unleashed.com/misc/13_700.jpg
http://visions-unleashed.com/misc/14_700.jpg

[cgmodeler]

And for the photos too, it's great, i've never seen a real car setup for a final shot, i'm studying graphic design here in mexico, but our photo studio is much smaller and i can't wait to try this but with a smaller object. Thanks for the pics...

[rodrigogua]

the concept behind those pictures is really interestig. trying to emulate them the exacxt same way in cg should be a pain in the ass (in rendering times) since it rellies completely in GI and FG (so that the bounces actually cast shadows) to light the car.

HDRI-studio.com has some commercial-quality hdri maps (that are not free whatsoever) that emulate car studio lighting setups for different types of shots (3/4 front, laterals, front, back, etc)

i might assemble a tutorial on how i created the studio-like environment map mentioned above.

hope this helps, and i will keep an eye on this thread!

[ant...]

You don't need to copy the bounce lighting. The reason they use HMI lights bounced off the poly flats is because they don't have a light of that size to use instead.
If you were to recreate that lighting setup wouldn't you just use a large area light where those hot spots are? (no need for GI)

[DodoPAN]

rodrigogua: looking forward to see that tutorial !

Ian Jones: thanks a lot for the shots ! I have also some, I will post them soon !

ant... : I think you're right, as a matter of fact, here's my ACTUAL try: selfilum plane above(output map, level 3 RGB), MR area spot 45 deg (allmost) to the car (front/side view) at 0.4 intensity and skylight at 1.0. It seems it emulates a studio shot right & allmost cheap (as render times).

I'll keep you informed and I'll post those real studio pics soon !

See ya !

[rodrigogua]

@ ant: that's of course true what i meant is that recreating it EXACTLy the way pros do it in real life would be quite expensive rendering-time-wise in cg. what you say about huge area lights is also true, butnyou might have to paint a diffuse map to get the variation you can see on the planes on those photos (i mean the hotspots where the lights hit the planes)

[TheWriter]

I was going to work on a night-time scene in MR once. I wanted to have many house lights and other lamps. Found out pretty fast this was un-feasible due to MR taking a major rendering time hit for each new light :(

[ant...]

Rodrigo: Yes you are exactly right. As a veteran retoucher I have been on many car shoots to make sure I get what we need, and when I asked why they bounce light off the scoup the photographer would say its more practical than getting lights that big. But Jeff Patton an I are working on a pro car studio setup currently and getting hard edge reflections off the area lights is a problem that I have not overcome yet. :hmm:

I have tried using maps of the hotspots on the enviroment and lite through the skylight, but possitioning them for perfect lighting is unpractical. Building a copy of the set and using GI is; as you said; too slow.

Last night I made a map of a hotspot but I am still trying to work out how to get it to work on a light? :banghead: Does anyone know how in 3DS Max7?

One technique I haven't tried is to UVW map the hotspot to a plane and turn the RGB level up and see if it produces the effect I need, doubt it...

[rodrigogua]

ant: i wouldn't try getting it as a projector map ina light, but rather as a texture map for a light-emiting plane, which would make its positioning MUCH easier. fiddling around with photoshop for around 2 minutes, i generated this 16-bit (for increased accuracy) map to be used as a texture map for a plane.

this map is a reduced version in order to be able to upload it as attachment, the full-res map is 1000x500 and saved as a lossless, 16-bit TIFF (450 kb) if you want it, please PM or e-mail me

[rodrigogua]

i rendered these in under 2 minutes each. the maps where generated with photoshop, since i noticed that it gave much more flexibilty than gradient ramps in max 7 (you could still use gradient ramps if you don't want to bother with photoshop). notice that if you fiddle with the tiling settings, you can create "arrays" of lights for your scen with slightly significant differences.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/rodrigogua/cgtalk/studiolightingtest01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/rodrigogua/cgtalk/studiolightingtest02.jpg

[DodoPAN]

rodrigogua : you're very right and that's a good advice you gave. still, mainly "car studio shots" are focused on clean refractions/reflections. (that's for the TILING issue).

after I tried allmost every possible setups, I ended with a MR area spot, a selfilum plane above, slight rotate for matching camera perspective (output map RGB 3 level) and a skylight. also, very important is the "studio" object material and the background color as well.

that emulates real studio shots for me. simple&allmost quick, untill I'll find something more exquisite ! :wise:

(I got my inspiration from Simoni Racing Cars&Girls shots (http://www.simoniracing.it/us/girls.php))

here's what I'm talking about: (real world car studio setup - you can find more on the Simoni Racing link above)

http://onfinite.com/libraries/405778/768.jpg

and here's one wire from my project: (I used only 1 selfilum plane 'cause more than one gets a bit of confusing reflections - just my opinion - allready tried that)

http://onfinite.com/libraries/405779/72b.jpg

hope it helped... ;)
see ya !

[azazel]

I'd get rid of the skylight and just place few directional lights around the scene. Sometimes they don't even have to cast shadows ;). Then i'd add another directional light from top, to simulate light bounced of that plane. Also, i'd use area shadow on that spot, if shadow map is not good enough. But generally, this should work well enough without GI, and be faster.

[DodoPAN]

I'd get rid of the skylight and just place few directional lights around the scene. Sometimes they don't even have to cast shadows ;). Then i'd add another directional light from top, to simulate light bounced of that plane. Also, i'd use area shadow on that spot, if shadow map is not good enough. But generally, this should work well enough without GI, and be faster.

yes, i look at it as the "traditional" way (what you described).

still, i'll be glad if you tell me your rendering times. as for my own, Mentalray@1024x768 with 3000 FG enabled, (no radius - it seems I didn't needed it checked, the render is very smoothed) my car needed only 2 hours to pump out of the render... (turbosmoothed highpoly) - and that's on a P4, 1,8Ghz with 712 DDR, 32 DDR video card.

see ya !

[rodrigogua]

@ DodoPan: where exactly in the site are the pics with the setups? i'd like to have a closer look at them. from what i see from that picture, it is rather different than the setups with the BMW Series 1 posted earlier. these (i guess) tend to give harder reflections and this has got a lot to do with the mood you want to inflict on your model. i think that harder highlights will make it look more aggressive while softer ones (like the ones in the BMW, you'll notice there are hardly any hard shadows in it) will make it look more bland and warm.

also notice that the tint that the light has also contributes a lot in the mood.

[DodoPAN]

where exactly in the site are the pics with the setups? i'd like to have a closer look at them.

Check Simoni Racing Cars&Girls (http://www.simoniracing.it/us/girls.php), click on the tumbnails for each car and you'll find there's one or two studio setups shots between multiple HOTshots for each car. ;)

from what i see from that picture, it is rather different than the setups with the BMW Series 1 posted earlier. these (i guess) tend to give harder reflections and this has got a lot to do with the mood you want to inflict on your model. i think that harder highlights will make it look more aggressive while softer ones (like the ones in the BMW, you'll notice there are hardly any hard shadows in it) will make it look more bland and warm.
also notice that the tint that the light has also contributes a lot in the mood.

You're perfectly right, my friend. And, for me, I prefer to "slide" onto harder reflections setups for studio shots. Warm reflections from HDRIs I tend to use for outdoor scenes. (of course, not very very warm...) What do you say ?

See ya !

[rodrigogua]

of course, it all depends on each individual person's taste.

i do think though, tht certain models might get benefited by softer reflections while others could look better with harder ones.

lots of luck with you project, and i'd like to see the end result!!! :thumbsup:

[DodoPAN]

lots of luck with you project, and i'd like to see the end result!!! :thumbsup:

thanks, man ! in a few days I'll be able to finish all my renders and you'll see them. ;)

see ya !

PS: also something that might help readers of this thread: the positioning of the selfilum planes/lights/objects must be "linked" to the camera perspective in order to give the ultimate reflections. also obj materials are very important (fresnel relf, parralel refl, etc.)

[ant...]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john_hague/hotspot.jpgI tried a similar technique using one MR area spot set to a large rectangle area, then put a black plane infront of the light and used the hotspot as a opacity map. It seems to cast a good blurred edge. Look at the smooth edge on top of the red chamfer box :thumbsup: .

This was the first test but I am thinking I could build a box around the light that looks similar to the overhead light shown earlier (above the BMW), then group it all together.
Render time does not seem to increase but the light imissions are reduced, but I can't see that being a problem.

What do you think?

[ant...]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john_hague/spray.jpg

On the above image it shows the photographic assistant applying what could be a dulling spray, which is used to give areas a matt finish (before the days of photoshop). But can you see on some of the balls on the above image; that their reflections are diffused... Well do you think that it would be possible to get the same smooth highlights by using a cleaver material???

Personally I am far from being competent with materials.

[DodoPAN]

ant...:

1st thing: dear friend, it's one thing to achieve good/realistic reflections from an studio kinda' setup for a sphere/chamfered box and another one to do that with the more complex surfaces/materials of a car. (I'm not mean, I only talk from experience... :) )

2nd: you're very very right about the spray. Searching/researching the internet showed me that we're not the only ones struggling with the perfect studio setup. Even in real life, lighting is very expensive and the car paint is very very tricky by its all-reflecting capabilities. The spray IS USED ALLMOST ALL THE TIME ! :eek:

3rd: get the CGTalk mat. file from the 3dMax Resources Forum and tweak or just use those car paint mats. That's what I've done a while ago and that's how I finnaly :scream: understood more about materials, especially car paint materials. You could find/discover a mat that would show smooth highlights but what you'll do when you'll put your car to outdoor scenes ? Of course, you may say that you could just tweak mat one more time but I suggest using GRADIENT maps for the selfium planes (for the STUDIO scenes) and tweak them 'till you'll find the allmost perfect highlights on your car.

4th: of course, the MR area spot is also a good alternative !

good luck with new ideas !

see ya !

PS: once again (hope I woun't be annoing :argh: ) I'll finish soon my final studio renders and I'll give you the link to know about your opinion. Rendering times...rendering times... :banghead:

[Ian Jones]

ant... I was wondering what that guy was doing, thx for finding out.

[ant...]

DodoPan: 1st) yes you are right about lighting balls not being the same, but thats just to test the light. Rodrigo and I were just using the chrome balls to show the results of the light better, you can understand that. That light works well on the car, trust me, I will put my studio scene up for download once its closer. But I am looking forward to seeing what you are up to, it should be good after all that research.
3rd) The Chamfer box is the car paint material from the CGtalk.mat, but thanks for telling me anyway.

Ian Jones: I have spent years in all types of photographic studio's. Its just frustrating trying to transfere my knowledge into 3D.

[rodrigogua]

if you want more complex shapes with realtively low renering times, you can use teapots. i strongly suggets to have several in the scene with differnet materials and reflective properties, as well as non-raytraced materials to test how the lights and the reflections work in different situations.

just my two cents ;)

[rodrigogua]

i just came across this site that has lots oflinks to studio lighting resources. not too focused on car lighting, but some might find them useful here is the link (http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=32299&forum_id=54)

[rodrigogua]

Here (http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=001yMS) is another useful resource, and this one does focus on cars only.

[sesim]

heres is my WIP studio shot..

C&C

http://usera.imagecave.com/sesim/crxstudiosho1.jpg

[sesim]

check this out...:)

http://www.smcars.net/forums/index.php?topic=18155.0

[larsgehrt]

Hey there,

thanks for a great thread you guys. Here´s my studio render, its rendered with VRay and took and hour to render a 1280 x 680 picture

http://www.coldmind.dk/pictures/web/bmwstort.jpg
http://www.coldmind.dk/pictures/web/gallardo3stort.jpg
Cheers...

[detergent99]

Larsgehrt, how do you get that hazy effect on your car? It looks mighty impressive.

[udaykiran]

Hi I have been keeping an eye on this thread. There was a good amount of info that i could draw.
Thanx for the info.

I have modelled a Lamborghini. I have setup the car with one skylight and and an directional light with area shadows and an self illuminated plane. I am getting the shadows correctly but the reflections on the car are unrealistic. especially I am unable to get the reflections on the glass. It is a raytraced material with IOR 1.1 and Fall off reflection.

could anyone suggest what type of material could i use .

thanx in advance

[larsgehrt]

Hi detergent99, what do you mean with hazy effect?

udaykiran, i believe you need to play a little more with your light, I have 6 light soureses in my scene but none of them fire direct light on the vehicle. You need to bounce th light on planes with a white material. Turn and bend them until you get some reflex in your windows. I wend for a small gradient on my windows, no sharp reflex.

Cheers.

[detergent99]

larsgehrt, basically what I mean is the lighting on your car. It seems to have a halo type of effect from what I see. Is it just standard max effects?, or did you use a plugin?

[daskog]

larsgehrt<- the bmw is one of the coolest mood i've seen on a car render so far
could you please post a wire with the light setup?

[larsgehrt]

hi you´ll

i rendered the picture with VRay and i just looked at the "Real life" studio photos how they set upi their light. I have 4 VRay light sources that light up upon white planes sourrounding the car. This lige then bounces of the planes and light up the car, thats how i get those nice soft light areas. Also i have 2 spots above the car shooting light over the roof and on to a plane on th other side of the car, these are for the roof lighting. Its 1 VRay light in the front, 2 on the side, 1 in the back and 2 above. Iam going to test some more studio renders in the future so hang on... Cant post any wire or studio setup now, iam at work... :)

But here are more renders:

http://www.coldmind.dk/pictures/web/dodge2stort.jpg
http://www.coldmind.dk/pictures/web/gallardo2stort.jpg
http://www.coldmind.dk/pictures/web/dodgestort.jpg

Cheers...

[rodrigogua]

i was finally able to make 3ds max output 32 bit images. you need mr 3.4 (ships with max 8) you can find more info in this thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=207165) (post #12)

[wilgory]

My experience at a commercial photography studio has provided me with the working knowledge for creating lighting setups for cars that are the closest match to what is seen in print and on tv. If your car is going to be on a neutral background or on black/white/red/yellow anything that wouldn't be the great outdoors you should setup your 3d lights to match the lights of a photographer's studio. Often I see pictures of cars on gray backgrounds reflecting a non-existant environment, which is far from photorealistic, but a great test in exploring the possibilities of HDR image lighting. In my opinion hdri image lighting techniques are severed best when the cg car is compositing into a live action environment, not a solid color background. But that's not to say that HDR's can look great on a car on a simple backdrop, but it isn't strictly photo realistic, but artistically awesome.
Try to add an area light directly above the car, and damn close to it to get those broad white hilights that smoothly fade into the cars original color. In real life the area light is a huge "soft light box" that has even space lights behind a semi translucent white material. Do a search for light box on www.adorama.com or B&H photo for better ideas of the types of lights that photographers use. Often the photographers would have me hold white cards, or in 3d a slightly luminous cards to the sides and front of the car, depending on the angle of the shots, and often multiple exposures and with/ without white cards were mixed together in photoshop to get the best results. The pictures of the studio lighting setups on this thread are great resources and really show what's going on, hopefully more people will post their own lighting setups!!! Good luck with your cg cars!

-Greg
http://www.wilgory.com

[rodrigogua]

thanks for the feedback wilgory!

[Marc Andreoli]

larsgehrt, basically what I mean is the lighting on your car. It seems to have a halo type of effect from what I see. Is it just standard max effects?, or did you use a plugin?

you can get a 'glow' by compositing the final image... in Photoshop, for example, duplicate the image layer and set it to 'screen'. Then increase the contrast and decrease the brightness (to isolate the highlights). Add some gaussian blur... desaturate the layer to avoid funky coloring... play around with the settings/levels, have fun.

But please don't overdo it... this technique seems to be the modern days 'lens flare' :)

[wilgory]

I am curious if many people are doing a lot of photoshop work to make their car images so great or if they are just rendering that sweet? I'd love to hear the role that photoshop plays in perfecting the car lighting, if any... Perhaps based on the response to the question a photoshop tutorial that covers tips and tricks for masking layers and different exposures for car renderings would benefit the car people in this community. Does a tutorial like this exist, that just talks about car lighting and photoshop retouching, masking, blending that would make those renders go from special to spectacular!!! Unless someone posts a link to some great resources for post effects techniques on cars, perhaps I'll put together some ideas in tutorial form if everyone here is willing to give me feedback to make it better. So far the renders in this thread are awesome!!!
Hey larsgehrt did you use photoshop to make your car shots 'pop' off the page? :applause: Kudos if those are untouched renders, but still extremely impressive if photoshop was one of the tools in your arsenal.

Good luck with future renders
Greg

:applause:

[rodrigogua]

well, you can always redner a secular pass, blur it a bit and set it on "screen" blending mode in photoshop over your rendered image. that's give you some glow around the specular reflections

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