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policarpo
03-25-2005, 09:58 PM
So, you've had a couple days to play with the modo demo, I was wondering what you guys thought of the application so far. I know that new software takes awhile to get up to speed with, but I know there are users here who can grok software quite quickly. I'd be interested in hearing your feedback (both bad and good).

Thanks again for making the demo available Luxology. modo needs to be in the hands of more artists.

Cheers.

Mattoo
03-26-2005, 01:23 AM
Only downloaded it yesterday lunchtime so not really had much time with it.

Played around with it a bit initially to try and understand the new functionality before I mess with the interface.

Right now I'm struggling with how to configure it to my own needs and finding what's missing. Right now all I can imagine I'd miss is an automatic mirror/unmirror tool which I use quite a bit in LW.

I've pretty much used all the main apps over the years (Soft, LW, MAX, Maya) so I'm pretty good at picking up new apps.

Right now I'm not sure what the difference is between "tools" and "commands"... seems a little odd.....


What's good:
- workplane!
- unified toolset (no more specific tools that are almost identical to another tool...mostly)
- configurable UI (although I am finding it very convoluted, not quite as easy as expected)
- Appears to be a nice set of UV tools.

About time too:
- SubD Ngons
- Edges
- Edge weighting
- symmetry appears to be a lot more robust than LWs, maybe I won't need a mirror/unmirror script(?)
- Decent snapping toolset

The Bad:
- Overly categorised tools system (of course it's configurable...)
- Booleans (was really hoping for some improvements here)
- Certainly the most unstable application I've used since MAX... (and atleast discreet knew it, so they included an emergency save feature upon that likely event.)
- Still some unstandard tool names (triple instead of triangulate for example)
EDIT: - forgot to mention, Edge Bevel, much prefer LWs edge beveling, i know all the other apps bevel like Modo, but I like LWs. One of those many little reasons I'd choose LW over the others...

I really really like it, problem is I mostly do character stuff which really requires a render and layout ability.
Modo's main strangths are in its added control, the kind of stuff only previously seen in NURBS based approaches - problem is that's not much use for organic stuff where you're dragging verts around with little care for lining things up.

This is much more of a step up for hard surface modellers....

policarpo
03-26-2005, 01:48 AM
Thanks for the reply Mattoo. Can't wait to hear what you have to say after you have had some more time with it.

Cheers.

For what it is worth...I will never go back to modeling or rendering in LW. It's so strange to me now because of modo and C4D.

CB_3D
03-26-2005, 02:20 AM
Playing around with it. I wont comment on the interface more than to say it looks beautyfull. Feels a little awkward for now,but that has to do with me not being used to it. Good thing for this old LWer that the navigation is almost the same as in LW,though. And once i master configuring the pie menus and shortcuts to my needs i should be up and running in no time. After having done thati wont need any funky tabs,ill just run in fullscreen like i already do in LW.

Now to the stuff that really matters.

OGL speed is fantastic and smooth. Real edges are fun and extremely usefull! It hurts not to have them in LW since i played around with true edge weighting. Viewmodes and little things like overlay density are very well thought out.

Overall ill be watching what Lux is up to.

One problem ive seen so far,and thats something i already know from LW.

The tools could be a bit more inelligent. For example,instead of having Shifts,Bevels,Extrudes and more for every selection mode there could be just one Extruder that could be nuerically configured to fullfill all extrusion needs the tools offer.

For now buying it is not an option. Now if there was a complete 3d solution with the same level of modernism and crispiness...that would be another story.

Jozvex
03-26-2005, 03:27 AM
I like it so far! I'm not a big modeller but I can still appreciate nice modelling tools.

One thing though, they should mention in the User Guide that if you use the Maya style navigation (which I do) that the selection styles are on different mouse buttons to what they say they are.

It's not hard to figure out, but still.

Mattoo
03-26-2005, 10:33 PM
Spent the whole day with it today, got some further observations in addition to the above comments:


Good:

- Love the selection stuff, edge/poly loops etc.

- Looks like there's some extensibility to the Surfacing in the future, looks promissin.



Bad:

- The light position is irritating, perhaps a personal gripe, obviously someone chose those those positions on purpose... god only knows why.

- I find Modo so bug ridden as to be virtually unusable, most of the crashes are repeatable. Right now this is my biggest gripe and will prevent me from buying it right now I think.


Back to Lightwave and Maya for me.

Cheers.

leuey
03-27-2005, 04:17 AM
Modo's smart enough to do this - it's just not immediatly apparent b/c of how they decided to set up some of the default menus (they were being overly thorough)

Select a poly - press b to bevel
Select an edge - press b to bevel it
Select a point - press b to bevel it.

Or if you like pressing icons use the one under mesh-edit.

If you want to see the difference between the commands look at the command history to see the difference between a generic bevel (b) and a polygon bevel (B). I believe the generic bevel is just querying your selection first.

Same with Extrude (select whatever element you want and press x to extrude it)

You can select a material and bevel that too, just press b.

-Greg





The tools could be a bit more inelligent. For example,instead of having Shifts,Bevels,Extrudes and more for every selection mode there could be just one Extruder that could be nuerically configured to fullfill all extrusion needs the tools offer.
.

leuey
03-27-2005, 04:26 AM
There's a command to adjust the lighting (I think it's still experimental but check the Lux boards to find it, I can't remember offhand). It's obviously something being developed so I would expect to see it soon.

Your second comment holds some truth - it crashes much more often than LW or Maya, no arguement there. But I've been using it in production constantly for months - there's a couple auto-save, progression-save scripts for a little piece of mind. But for me (at any rate) it's so worth it.

I occassionaly jump in LW or Maya to use a tool for the model that doesn't exist in Modo yet (LW and Maya obviously have many years of scripts from the community, Modo will eventually -check vertexmonkey.com). Once you get accumstomed to Modo jumping back to LW or Maya seems just downright suffocating (and this is coming from somebody whose used LW for so long I can't even remember keys for the shortcuts only the muscle memory positions of them....)

-Greg




Bad:

- The light position is irritating, perhaps a personal gripe, obviously someone chose those those positions on purpose... god only knows why.

- I find Modo so bug ridden as to be virtually unusable, most of the crashes are repeatable. Right now this is my biggest gripe and will prevent me from buying it right now I think.


Back to Lightwave and Maya for me.

Cheers.

chrisWhite
03-27-2005, 03:16 PM
My only problem is that I didn't find out about it until the end of Spring Break (yep, with capital letters), so now I'm going to have to wait until some modeling is due or I'll never finish any other homework. :) Demo's fully functional, right? For the trail period I can export to Maya?

Chaz
03-29-2005, 06:06 PM
Just a word on the instability...

Dion from Luxology helped me this week as I was having a ton of crashing problems. Seems that two-point polys in Lightwave files confuse modo, and selecting one with the polygon tool is a sure-fire way to crash modo. If you turn off the "Convert Subpatches to Subdivisions" option in the Ligthwave I/O preferences and you won't have any more crashes. There's also a script available on vertexmonkey called meshcleanup that will delete extraneous polys.

I was doing a lot of back-and-forth with Modeler on a couple of projects and was about to shelve modo for awhile. I tried this with a number of Lightwave files I had been having consistent trouble with and lo....no more crashing. Is it just me or does merging points in LW8 leave a lot more 2pt polygons than v7 used to?

CB_3D
03-30-2005, 02:02 PM
After playing around a few evenings i have to say that I am positively impressed with Modo. Very!

Roger Eberhart
03-30-2005, 02:27 PM
I crashed it within minutes on both my PC at work and my Mac at home. Great tools won't save me time if I'm constantly recovering from crashes.

policarpo
03-30-2005, 02:33 PM
I crashed it within minutes on both my PC at work and my Mac at home. Great tools won't save me time if I'm constantly recovering from crashes.

What are you system specs as well as card specs?

Roger Eberhart
03-31-2005, 01:43 PM
What are you system specs as well as card specs?

The Mac was a Powerbook 1.5ghz with a gig of RAM. ATI 9700 video card. I got the bouncing beachball of doom on this machine after executing some rather basic commands. Looking on Lux's forums, this is not uncommon on the Mac side of things.

The PC was my work machine. It's an Athlon 64 3000+, 1 gig RAM, Nvidia 5600Ultra (I know, yuck! Thank goodness I only do low poly.) I'm running XP Pro. The nvidia driver is 66.93. On this machine the program crashes every time I try to load the .pdf help documents. Since the first thing I did when starting the program was try to look at the documentation, this was not an auspicious beginning.

ambient-whisper
03-31-2005, 02:51 PM
Nvidia 5600Ultra (I know, yuck! Thank goodness I only do low poly.)

trust me. upgrading to a better card wont give you that much difference in poly pushing speed. small increments at best.


you can get very high poly on that card btw.

toonafish
04-03-2005, 05:50 PM
For anyone interested, here's my little review after doing some modeling with the demo.
I think it's very promising, and Coming from Lightwave, I like the fact that it resembles Modeler so much. I'm tempted, but I don't think I'll switch to Modo just jet, it still misses some of my favourite tools and for my taste it could use some overall workflow improvements. But with a few smart updates it could become a great addition to my toolset.

my 2 cents:

OpenGL speed is amazing. I can load models that slow down modeler and it feels as if I loaded a single poly.

NGons with SubDees, edges and edge weights are bliss.

Symmetry works great !! I can use all my tools without screwing it up. In modeler I hardly ever use it bacause most tools do not support it and some old ones even make modeler crash when you have symmetry enabled.

The the ease in which one can adjust the interface and stuff like Pie Menus is very cool.

Macro's and the Command Editor are great, though I was a bit surprised that not all commands can be used with Macro's.

Double click to select edge loops, or select connected and RMB changing selection type is very smart. But having to hold Ctrl or Shift all the time to deselect or select more is not so cool.

Wacom precision could be improved a lot, I found myself trying to avoid the Element Move Tool (equivalent of Drag Tool in Modeler ) for tweaking detail because it seems to snap to an invisible grid or at least it jiggles a lot while dragging a vertice. Sometimes it even speeds up my pen movements tenfold or moves in a completey different direction then what I'm doing, feels a bit buggy. Maybe I'm using some weird toolsettings, but when I compare this to the way Modeler works, it's no points for Modo :-)

The whole Tool pipe workflow is slowing the modeling process down I think. It's nice to have so many settings and falloffs but I found myself fondling around with them way too much. I'm used to hitting hotkeys and modeling away without thinking about my toolsettings too much. In modo I feel I'm distracted by the tools, but that could be because I'm not really used to them.

What I really missed was an edge- or vertex slide feature that even LW Modeler knows how to fake with no edges. What I did to simulate it was selecting an edge, the Size Tool with Element Action Axis and clicking on one of the edges vertices. This worked most of the time, but every now and then I could not get Modo to select a vertice and I would take me 30 seconds or so to scale one single edge.

Modo crashed quite a bit. It even crashed while I was away from my computer or closed photoshop with Modo in the background. Though while just using the basic tools and not fooling around too much with splines and layers it's stable enough to get the job done.

The mirror tool misses an apply button, I know I can use the apply in the Tool Pipe, but that's not the best solution.

Would be great if one could change some settings without applying the tool. For instance, when I use the Edge Extend tool and change from automatic to local, the tool is applied and I have 2 new edges.

The Linear Falloff Tool should have 3 input fields, so you can ease in and out and only deform what's in the middle. Now you're always deforming everyting above or below the tool.

A program with a "cutting edge toolset" should have some kind of history. At least for things like Spine Patching, Curve Extrude and Lathe. And I could not find a Loft Tool.

The Add Edges Tool is great, but could be a little more forgiving when it comes to non planar poly's. Sometimes it refuses to add an edge, or even crashes after telling me the poly is not planar enough.

The info window collapes every time I select another element, would be great if it would keep showing me something like the vertex position of the newly selected vertex when I have this expanded. Also changing the settings in this window is awkward, at first I though I could not edit the values, but you have to click a lot on them and get lucky so it opens in input field. It's like a secret knock, three times fast and one slow knock :-)

Background constraint should work with all tools. I can create a poly with the pen tool on a background object, but I can't move the vertices afterwards.

Zack Attack
04-04-2005, 11:19 PM
when the trial ends can we renew it for like another 30 days lol im not home enough to try the demo

bradpeebler
04-05-2005, 12:20 AM
You can renew 14 days at a time

Because we are cool like that.

Also, you can evaluate modo at work! The eval version allows for production use. That's the point really.

BP

TIMMYLYNN
04-09-2005, 06:28 PM
wow...that's way cool that your gonna let people renew the license every 15 days.....i work from home and stay really busy with my full time job. I have lw and have delved in it for about a year but ive been reading about you guys for a while and waiting and i downloaded modo last nite....it looks great...i was only able to play for a few minutes but am ready to start on the training materials.....if you guys allow me to learn first by renewing the license then you may win me over........... :O)

pensart
04-14-2005, 03:08 PM
Hi Toona

Wacom precision could be improved a lot, I found myself trying to avoid the Element Move Tool (equivalent of Drag Tool in Modeler ) for tweaking detail because it seems to snap to an invisible grid or at least it jiggles a lot while dragging a vertice. Sometimes it even speeds up my pen movements tenfold or moves in a completey different direction then what I'm doing, feels a bit buggy. Maybe I'm using some weird toolsettings, but when I compare this to the way Modeler works, it's no points for Modo :-)


Weird, i Also us a wacom and dont have any problems with this?
I'm sure i find the element tool in modo mutch better than the drag tool in lw!
To be honest there's no tool in lw that would make me switch back to it!
Exept for the unweld tool since modo does not have this one.
IMHO: This is modeler on steroids.
Anyway Toona i love your your site.

c-g
04-14-2005, 03:39 PM
To be honest there's no tool in lw that would make me switch back to it!
Exept for the unweld tool since modo does not have this one.

Split Vertices will give you unweld funtionality.

pensart
04-14-2005, 06:50 PM
Yo C-g,

You are THE man!!
Thanks mate.

StephanD
04-18-2005, 03:31 PM
I really enjoyed my time using the demo version of Modo and most of all I'll miss the selectability which has no precedent in my experience.Having a hands-on feeling is what's the most important to me when sculpting digitally and Modo did that perfectly.

Most everything has been said before about the software,sleek,customizable interface which grants you unlimited possibilities,alot of easy to use and fast tools and subdivision surfaces that displays very fast even on old hardware.

Overall the production increase is significant enough for me to justify a purchase but I guess it depends on the workflow you have already established before using it.


Top of all,Luxology reaches to it's clients and users,almost doing case-by-case and that,in my book,makes all the difference.

Can't wait to see what's coming up next!

Yiorgz
05-02-2005, 10:50 AM
The Bad:

I agree Mattoo on the lighting thing. I've tried to work out how to change the gooch shading colours to make a fake light effect with a gradient from one colour to a darker version of the same colour but I can't seem to find which colour settings affect the gooch colours.

The odd seemingly for no reason crashes. On a good note, they have an option to enable autosave and set up a predefined number of revisions. This is clever and does save some hair pulling. But anyone who uses a computer should know better and have RSI from CTRL+S.

The Good:

Open GL performance rocks. Huge pictures in the background and they slide around so quickly (compared to LW on my machine there is HUGE performance difference). Transparent backgrounds with overlay or underlay option. Projection for perspective views. Interactive resizing of the image.

NGONS ..!!! Soo handy.

Element action center. Select 3 or 4 polygons in different places on your mesh and set action center to element and then rotate - each poly rotates around it's normal exactly the same angle as the others.

Edge selection and tools and edge loops and all of the selection tools in general just absolute ly make it sooo much fun to use. Right click a Poly, Edge or Vert to change into that selection mode.

Hotkey modifiers change the interface so that a button can do more than one thing.

Fantastic video tutorials for lots of stuff.

Absolutely extremely well thought out separation of UI and actual functionality. From a programming standpoint, the display layer (the UI) and the business layer (the GUTS) are very well seperated, which allows so much flexibility. Eg. The functions that bevel (as someone pointed out earlier) have support for context sensitivity (ie in vertex mode, it bevels vertex etc etc) - the interface just hooks into the same function (but of a different object) eg "edge.bevel" "vertex.bevel" etc It's just so damn neat !!

For those freaks who want to poke around try looking up "vp__attrform" in the reference guide (under LESSER VIEWS -> FORMS on the left hand index). There's a neat video there that explains how the UI works and if you can understand this, you will understand the beauty in modo's UI.

c-g
05-02-2005, 02:55 PM
The Bad:

I agree Mattoo on the lighting thing. I've tried to work out how to change the gooch shading colours to make a fake light effect with a gradient from one colour to a darker version of the same colour but I can't seem to find which colour settings affect the gooch colours.


That is the point of the Gooch. Instead of light to dark it is a warm to cool "shading" method. You perceve the cooler colors as shadow without it being dark.

Phil Lawson
05-02-2005, 03:06 PM
Dont forget you can use Rigely's updated gooch shader from http://www.vertexmonkey.com/shaders.php

Yiorgz
05-03-2005, 09:57 PM
Dont forget you can use Rigely's updated gooch shader from http://www.vertexmonkey.com/shaders.php

Ahhhhh, fantastic !

The thumbnail on the vertexmonkey site shows the effect I wanted to get out of changing the default modo gooch colours.

Many thanks.

LNT
05-04-2005, 01:02 AM
modo's very very good :)


here's what needs seeing to:

modo needs a single click loop cut tool a la xsi's MMB Split Edge Tool

saving/loading viewport layouts exhibit very quirky behaviour and viewport background images need some fixing too (no grid in the image area,no auto fit feature,and very basic size/positioning tool)

Move Element tool feels stiff,it should be easier to pick and move components in the opengl with it

the rest is just fine

StephanD
05-04-2005, 11:19 AM
modo needs a single click loop cut tool a la xsi's MMB Split Edge Tool


Look for the Loop Slice tool this is exactly what you're after.Select an Edgegring,activate it and Single Click to cut at 50% or Drag it to change the percentage before the cut.


About the Element Move I have to agree that some improvements have to be made,well mainly one and it's high on my list of things to ask for.

I just don't have the time to send or post them right now too busy actually using the software :)

LNT
05-04-2005, 11:32 AM
Look for the Loop Slice tool this is exactly what you're after.

well if it was exactly what I was after I wouldnt mention it :)

in xsi you MMB click on any edge and it instantly cuts the loop exactly on the point you clicked...you dont need to select edges/polys nor slide the thing to where you want your cut to happen...it's way faster

StephanD
05-04-2005, 11:42 AM
I use Xsi also :)

Every tools have their dis/advantages.It's true the selection step can be annoying but I find it as fast since Xsi will often keep you from using MMB Split Edge when too close to them,say 95% close.In the end,it could even be longer in Xsi by trying to do it that way but maybe I've missed something.

LNT
05-04-2005, 12:41 PM
no,MMB is way faster... :) stop arguing with me man http://www.aoikenso.net/ap/cg/biggrin.gif

StephanD
05-04-2005, 01:00 PM
-no,MMB is way faster... :) stop arguing with me man http://www.aoikenso.net/ap/cg/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]

hehe :D

Yiorgz
05-08-2005, 10:16 PM
-no,MMB is way faster... :) stop arguing with me man http://www.aoikenso.net/ap/cg/biggrin.gif

hehe :D[/QUOTE]

Hey, I've always found any precision work with the middle mouse button always gets botched by the scroll wheel function, so I avoid it like Avocado on a pizza.

n0s4ra2
05-08-2005, 10:48 PM
Does the demo have a limited save or poly limit?

I guess what I am asking what is different in the demo and full version?

I can not wait to try it out.

Thanks

c-g
05-09-2005, 12:13 AM
The only difference is that the license will expire on the demo.

jbecana
06-03-2005, 03:00 PM
Hello,
I've been using LW mainly for 3D modeling. Last month came a long project and I decided to try MODO using the demo. I haven't got to know Modo in depth and I know I missed a lot of features, as I haven't enough time to play with it. Modo is great for modeling buildings, vehicles and all this stuff. I've heard great things about Silo but haven't use it myself. I guess that Silo can be a powerful tool for organic modeling, but I don't know if it compares with Modo for modeling other "tedious" repetitive stuff like buildings, machinery... I downloaded Silo demo but still have to try it. These are some notes I've been writing while using it, just to give another opinion to people who wants to know more about it.

MODO strong points (they are related to LW missing points)

- The workplane is great, I won't be able to work again without it. Coming from LW, I miss something like that. I remember when I had to rotate the geometry to work in one of the XYZ viewports, and then rotate it back again to see the changes, back and forth again and again. You can overcome that with plugins, but this is much more elegant approach. Now you can check the overall size, position and continue adding geometry thanks to the workplane.

- The action center/axis center gives you a lot of control. Loads of different action centers deping on axis, selections, elements..

- Tool pipe looks like a good approach, but I haven't get it right yet and some times I have to activate the tool again to see the handles, or things move in an unexpected direction, I'm still learning how they work. All the tools depends on what action mode is selected, and I still not get used to it, but it will bring more flexibility once I learn how it works.

- Edge tools. Never used edges before ( I learnt modeling in LW) and they save a lot of time in the modeling workflow. Edge bevels, removing edges, moving/scaling edge loops. Edge loop selection is great in Modo, as well as connected polygons.

- Modo has paid great attention to small details, like positioning the handles in the center of the selected items when you activate any tool in auto mode so you can, let's say align a row of vertices immediately, background shaded mode, tool handlers are easy to use for rotating, moving, beveling... the local action center I just found yesterday, to scale multiple items at the same time,...

- Nice and thoughtful UI design, greately customizable. I can work faster when I put everything where I want it. I like its design and the ability to change the position of almost everything just by draging. There are some issues with the keyboard assignments (at least with my keyboard), but you can use different keys and that's all for it.

- Selection modes. using Middle mouse button to select in shaded views, double clicking to select loops or connected geometry.

- Fast, OGL looks beautiful and faster.

- Undoes work for everything, including selection changes, so its easy to go back. As the selection system is different from LW, I made some mistakes when working with both. So keep the number of undoes high or you will run out of them soon.

- Macros and Scripting, though I've not taken a look at the scripting system yet, looks very promising for repetitive or "mass" tasks.

MODO weak points/Features Requests/Video requests:

- Modo still have some bugs. Nothing really anoying (like ZBrush creating corrupted files so you can throw several versions and hours of your time to the toilet) and there is an autosave feature that really works, I've been having 3-4 crashes a day. This is not so much for some people, but I'm used to LW modeler that is extremely stable in my system (as oposite to LW Layout, specially using FPrime)

- Info available in lower right corner (grid size and items selecteds) is hardly visible when its over brilliant (light colored) geometry, as they are drawn in yellow and white. Bad idea. This info, in my opinion, should be placed somewhere in left lower corner next to 3d tracking info, or somewhere IN the dark grey area of the interface, don't think its necesary in every viewport.

- That info should be more "clever" and show, for instance, the result of modeling operations like welded points, rotations, distances, moves and so on, instead of showing succesful messages on dialog boxes so you end up switching them off.

- OGL lights are extreme for my taste. I read in the forums some way to change it, but sincerely, modifying a config file by hand, without knowing what's going on... There should be a user frindly tool to adjust inensity and position of the OGL lights.
Object layers are better managed, but there are place for improvement I think: you cannot activate layers from 2 different objects at the same time. CTRL+clicking in the BG column select the whole object instead of putting it in the BG. CTRL clicking in a parent layer selects all its layers instead of this one layer. I don't know but there are something not working with them.

- The use of middle mouse to repeat an operation is sometimes useful, sometimes not. I didn't find a way to commit the tool and get ready for a new use with a mouse click (LW right mouse button for beveling). For instance, mirroring several times over the X axis. I do it by right clicking in the pipe tool and selecting apply tool, but it's not very straight when you do it a lot (BTW, a script like unmirror/domirror in LW would be really nice)

- Can't make my mind using the tool pipe yet. Some new videos using the tool pipe workflow in depth (I've seen all the help videos). I know I'm doing something wrong because it takes me some clicks to get where I want. I'd like more in depth videos to take advantage of the tool pipe approach.

- The element move (I think this is the name) that allows you to move whatever it's under the mouse pointer needs some improvement. In shaded/textured viewports where vertices are not always accessible, depending on the topology, and you end up moving an edge or polygon instead of a vertex, undoing, trying again... I think the new version of Silo highlights whatever is under your mouse so you know what's selected.

- More videos/tutos on advanced workflows like macro recording,interface automation, tool pipe... I think its one of Modo strong points.

- The texturing part is just not there. There is not enough info on how to UV map and use materials apart from the very basic things. I know it will come in the future. I also found some bugs when working on lwo objects that had procedurals created in LW, like the Value procedural. Modo crashed when saving an object that had it. As autosave was on, it crashed even when working in another window.

- The OGL shaded mode should only used the basic color of the surface, if any. I was modeling an object with an alfa image map applied and it showed completely black in the viewport, in texture (I understand alfas are not interpreted correctly), but also in shaded mode. Maybe this can be changed.

- Tool falloffs are not easy to handle in 3D. I'd request a falloff rotation handle to align the falloff with the geometry, as aligning the the workplane for that is not so straight. Besides that, I found rather confusing the OGL view when the tool and the falloffs are both active. Sometimes I cannot access the tool handles or the falloff handles. As falloff handles can be modified with the left draging as well, I made some mistakes. I have not use it alot, but I think it could be improved.

- As someone requested, the ability to rotate or move the workplane directly in the viewport: rotation, position etc...

- Tool handles. Sometimes I liked to move the tool handlers in one of its axis. I used the numeric sliders in the tool properties because the blue handles are so close to the other handles that are hard to reach. I don't know if it's possible to change its size (I'd bet yes, but I'd prefer handles like the ones you use when creating a box.

I see Modo a great help for LW users, specially after 2 or 3 years waiting for real improvements in LW. I've received a mail from Lux offering a 1 year license for 299$. Anybody has heard about it? Anyway, I think Lux should offer a more gentile discount to LW users than a 100$ discount, its my opinion. After all, we have suffered the last years like hell.... Modo is expensive, but I think it's worth its price. I will get the annual license and will see what comes next...

yog
06-03-2005, 03:30 PM
Hi Jebecana.

I agree with a lot of what you say, and it's good to see someone pass on jugement AFTER an extensive test.

I keep finding more and more in Modo, some of which answeres some of your concerns. i.e. info colours can be changed in System->preferences, extra info like distance moved can be displayed if you set tool handle preferences to Advanced, and the tool pipe will allow you to have falloffs active but invisable for clarity.

Most of the included Modo videos are very basic, not surprising for such a young program, but like you I would like to see some more videos showing some of the less obvious, but very useful, functions like tool pipe usage.

unchikun
06-03-2005, 04:57 PM
Modo is a great package with a unique approach to modeling. The Lux team has done a tremendous job addressing some poly modeling issues other packages neglect. However there are a few things that prevent me from using this in production or recomending it to others.

>Stability, mentioned many times.

>UI customization needs to be much more intuitive ie drag drop for popups. Easier removal/addition of window/panel elements ala Maya. Ability to save interface/script/hotkey presets so freelancing at a new location: hit the ground running, impress other artists.

>Camera orbiting tends to "meander", does not behave like Max, Maya or XSI.

>Falloffs take too many steps to execute. Tool moveability is great, color feedback of falloff on actual geometry (ala XSI, Maya) would be even more great.

>Editable history stack, nontrivial implementation but essential for modern modeling workflow. If you really wanted to get awesome modeling power, incorporate Houdini style visual node based ops.... with macros... wow.

>Snap align along axis to point. I could not believe this oversight. Need to use seneca align to point script.

>Incorporate more awesome seneca tools into program ie mesh cleanup.

>Action centers always have me switching back and forth between the multiple modes, which is their purpose of course. Still haven't gotten used to it though. Always make transforms mistake with wrong action center, undo, switch action center, repeat many many times during modeling session.

>Need to edit XYZ fields all at once, implement shift click or similar workflow. The m/cm measurement designation in the fields can be bothersome. Keep them out like all other packages. Default scaling snap at .005 increment is annoying... how do I get rid of it?

>After modeling for a period of time I notice that loop selection no longer selects loops properly and symmetry selection is no longer symmetrical. This is even after mesh cleanup.

>Morph shapes (blend shapes) cannot go from Maya to Modo.

>Price. A lot of people gripe about the price. If Lux addressed the basic basic issues, had node based ops, more stablity, continue to progress as they are... It would definately be worth it.

I am sure a few things I mentioned can be currently addressed as I am not a guru and need a bit more mileage. However, I do like the direction Modo is headed, hope they can fix things at an early stage before the code gets too bloated to do anything about it (ahem XSI, Maya, Max, Lightwave)

Keep up the great work... looking forward to the next version!

jbecana
06-03-2005, 05:26 PM
Thanks for the info, Yog.
I keep learning everyday. I also found that shift clicking will reset the tool to apply it again (like RMB in LW). I knew I was missing something because it was such an obvious thing...
About the info text, changing the color can help, but as the viewport content will change as you work, there will be always situations where they will not read. If I set dark colours, I won't see them when the background is dark, and so on..
We will see Modo growing as it grows its community, but I think it's a good starting point and have some awsome tools for subdivision/polygonal modeling. Let see it growing up.

Javier.

DorisDay
06-03-2005, 06:12 PM
Hmm gave it a try & uninstalled the same day, sorry but I just didn't like it, I'll stick with what I have thanks...:)

It was nothing specific, it just didn't blow me away & for the price I think actually should...:bounce:

Maybe it was the "borrowed" Zbrush colour sceme...:shrug:

yog
06-03-2005, 06:31 PM
Hmm gave it a try & uninstalled the same day, sorry but I just didn't like it, I'll stick with what I have thanks...:)

It was nothing specific, it just didn't blow me away & for the price I think actually should...:bounce:

Maybe it was the "borrowed" Zbrush colour sceme...:shrug:
No problem, no one software suits everyone.

Bit surprised over your last comment though. If it weren't strange enough, it's even stranger you didn't realise you could change the colour scheme, either though the inbuilt different schemes or customise your own :shrug:

ThomasHelzle
06-16-2005, 01:48 AM
I wasn't too impressed in the end after my demo time.

- Edge weighting and Ngons don't help me when I render in Lightwave or messiah and I haven't found a way to transport edgeweighting to XSI (I didn't look too long though). More export formats are mandatory if those features are meant to be usable.

The same goes for a lot of other stuff. Yes it looks cool and yes it has some nice ideas, but do I need it? No way, not even for the new LW-owners price of 299.-
If this would be Lightwave Modeler 9, I would be delighted, since it would be integrated into a full package, where I could render and use Ngons and Edgeweighting etc..
The same is true for a history/stack which is cool if I can use it for animation, but just for modeling I don't need it that much.

After all those years where Lightwave was a cutting edge tool, we now have two companies that work against each other from a users perspective, dragging each other down. Lightwave is stable for me and does what it does rather well, but hasn't shown any worthwhile innovation for about 2 or 3 years now.
modo is too similar to LW modeler to enter completely new grounds or attract a massive user base, it is rather buggy and it definitely doesn't bring a solution to the old "two apps" dilemma of LW Layout/Modeler where so much information is getting lost.

If I want a solution to that, I basically will use XSI where the same (and more) modeling options are available but are integrated with the rest of a production system and therefore fully usable and animatable.

Cheers,

DMack
06-16-2005, 09:06 AM
Hi Thomas,

Didn't expect to find you here? I'd wait until after siggraph, when they launch/reveal their new renderer. I think you'll discover how they are intending to integrate everything. I think Lux have been concentrating theif efforts on building a very solid foundation to build from. Modo is their first app and I can't help but feel was launched to get cash flow...flowing. I think things will be clearer (hopefully) at siggraph....Certainly the render technology (though only a tiny bit shown) does seem to be a major step forward in terms of speed and therefore interactivity....

David

I'm just hoping for a good connection with messiah Animate.....I can't see myself moving away from that as a CA application ;)

ThomasHelzle
06-16-2005, 09:56 AM
Hey, I give them all the time in the world ;)
I'm just not interested in wasting time, brain and money on another "promising" app that may or may not become really great one day.
From what I've seen in the demo, I realistically expect a stable and "finished" modeler with an also stable and finished renderer in maybe 2 or 3 years, may as well take 5...

I'll check back then. :thumbsup:

Cheers,

DMack
06-16-2005, 11:24 AM
Fair comment regarding 'another promising app'...I just feel with LW's lack of development that it's getting more and more necessary to look around and XSI etc all have financial issues related to distributed rendering.....I have my fingers crossed.....Then again, maybe Newtek will come out with something big at siggraph? Certainly it will be a very interesting siggraph:thumbsup:

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