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finalgathering
09-25-2002, 09:27 PM
Here is an image generated with soon to be released XSI 3.0.
It uses Image Based Lighting that comes from an HDRI image. This is a model I had made back in Softimage 3.7.
It's quite astonishing, there is no light in the scene, just the hdri environment driving final gathering and reflections. The fact that the image is High Dynamic greatly adds to the photo real aspect of the image, so there's no need to try to achieve photo realistic results with lights anymore.
It took me literally minutes to come to these results with the shader.
This image was done in one pass with no retouching. The big advantage now is that you can control hdri reflections and the amount of photons comming from the hdri in one pass.

http://www.finalgathering.com/cappuccino_1.jpg

Amalinde
09-25-2002, 10:40 PM
you almost make me want to switch to xsi! but no, i will figure out how to do this in lightwave....

Taoizm
09-25-2002, 10:58 PM
Just plain impressive. :applause:

levius
09-25-2002, 11:03 PM
looks really great :thumbsup: , how does it work?

stipen
09-25-2002, 11:29 PM
Awesome !!
I'm still on the 2.02...can I do that too, or do I have to wait ???

finalgathering
09-25-2002, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by levius
looks really great :thumbsup: , how does it work?
This may sound really dumb, but you just call the shader via a new pass, which is good cause you can control which objects will be affected by the shader (if you wish -not in this case).
On the shader property page, you locate the hdri image it will use as an environment map and then on the same property page tell it how much final gathering and reflection you want it to use via sliders. Final gathering gives it that bouncing light effect reflection, adds reflection globally according to the local reflection params of each object.
Real simple...

arvid
09-25-2002, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by Amalinde
you almost make me want to switch to xsi! but no, i will figure out how to do this in lightwave....

It wouldn't be worth it ;) Join our growing community instead!

:beer:

Noxerus
09-26-2002, 12:08 AM
Woohoo! Beautiful my friend, beautiful :) Now I just can't wait until the new MentalRay comes out for Maya 4.5!

PureFire
09-26-2002, 04:35 AM
i love it...HDR images definately make a world of a difference:buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock:

piajartist
09-26-2002, 05:54 AM
I love to see fellow softiamge users glow in the spotlight, I love this piece and cant wait to get 3.0

Mangaka604
09-26-2002, 06:28 AM
All I hope is that the Animation Mixer is ironed out in Version 3. Oh yea, the passes in XSI 2.03 is kinda buggy with Toon. Some our passes at work won't render for no apparent reason.

But, I enjoy XSI much more than SI3D. It's almost there.

Nice render btw!

jason-slab
09-26-2002, 07:30 AM
hmmm now i'm really confused

i was thinking about crossing over from max to maya, but now i just don't know xsi is lookin more like the greener grass

nice render:thumbsup:

Stimpy
09-26-2002, 08:01 AM
sweeeeeeeeeeet

cant wait for 3.0 to arrive.. :P

arvid
09-26-2002, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Noxerus
Woohoo! Beautiful my friend, beautiful :) Now I just can't wait until the new MentalRay comes out for Maya 4.5!


I believe the feature that made this IBL lit image possible isn't MR specific, but a feautre in XSI, a HDR node, which means that it could be done in maya too IF it's implemented, but the XSI implementation is lightyears ahead :cool:

The beauty of MentalRay is XSI, the ultimate combo! MR alone is somewhat another story...

or just correct me if I'm wrong ;)

Stimpy
09-26-2002, 06:30 PM
and now the 1 million dollar question.. how fast is it ??

will you be able to use it in production or just for stills ?



and @ Amalinde: correct me if im wrong, but i think lightwave had been one of the first of the more popular packages to have included hdri support. i remember playing around with a plugin called something like "imageworld" or something way back after hearing a presentation on " fiat lux "

unfortunately though my knowlegde of lightwave was too limited to produce any nice results..

finalgathering
09-26-2002, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by Stimpy
and now the 1 million dollar question.. how fast is it ??

will you be able to use it in production or just for stills ?


It was blazing fast. It doesn't need to recalculate the FG map, so the update on the render region while setting up the scene was +/-15 seconds. This particular render region took somewhat 20 minutes, but I had seriously exaggerated the anti-alias and even added 3d depth of field cause I went out on a lunch break. Brodcast quality would take approximately 5 minutes/frame on this 2 gig single processor. Imagine on a dual..:eek:

Stimpy
09-26-2002, 11:31 PM
nice.. :D

the future looks bright and shiny

s2a-adamk
09-27-2002, 08:11 AM
For those of you considering a switch:
I think XSI has the best interface of any 3d software.....
I just couldn't figure out the rest.

Also wanted to point out - Vray for Max has HDRI support.

And that is my favorite espresso machine - Francis Francis designed by Philipe Stark.

Looks good.

a

pants
09-27-2002, 08:26 AM
i don't mean to be rude, but i really don't get this? HDRI and IBL have been seen before so i am failing to see why everyone's getting so excited. in fact, i think LW ships with it and it sounds like maya is going to soon. max doesn't (drat) but there are several solutions for that (final render, brazil, etc.).

again, i am not trying to be rude, i like the image, very cool. but i don't see why everyone is freaking out over HDRI...

if i'm missing something, pleeeeeeease inform me as this has been eating at me for a while now.

withanar
09-27-2002, 06:40 PM
In XSI you can use HDRI for final gathering and global illumination effects, fully integrated with all of the other render tree effects including displacement, toon shading (if you want), and volumetrics including sub surface and fractal raymarching. I don't know if anything else has this complete an integration off the shelf. :drool:

Also, it's fast! I'm just about to start lighting for a commercial and I have 4 hours from now until deadline. I'm confident that I'll be able to pull this off one way or another in XSI 3.0, and it'll look really good. :thumbsup:


Originally posted by pants
i don't mean to be rude, but i really don't get this? HDRI and IBL have been seen before so i am failing to see why everyone's getting so excited. in fact, i think LW ships with it and it sounds like maya is going to soon. max doesn't (drat) but there are several solutions for that (final render, brazil, etc.).

again, i am not trying to be rude, i like the image, very cool. but i don't see why everyone is freaking out over HDRI...

if i'm missing something, pleeeeeeease inform me as this has been eating at me for a while now.

s2a-adamk
09-27-2002, 06:53 PM
Fast and creates an instant background to give full reflections. Really helps if you have glass.

The curved refelction of the kitchen HDRI in this "blender" shot is the best part. Plus it looks like a full scene when it is only the appliance sitting on a box.

a

DesignDawg
09-27-2002, 07:34 PM
For those of your talking about what can do this and what can't...

Mental Ray for Maya (Mental Ray 1 for Maya 4.0) does this beautifully. It's the same renderer! HDRI in MR for Maya is quite simple.

--Oh, and about not needing to update the photon map: Yeah. For something that doesn't move. But when the thing starts moving, you DO have to update it for every frame. You could do a flyaround of an object, and it will render blazing fast. But if the thing starts to act or anything, you're screwed, and then I would not be so quick to say it's OK for productions...

RIcky

withanar
09-27-2002, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by DesignDawg
For those of your talking about what can do this and what can't...

Mental Ray for Maya (Mental Ray 1 for Maya 4.0) does this beautifully. It's the same renderer! HDRI in MR for Maya is quite simple.


It's not the same renderer. XSI 3.0 is ahead by 1 version in MR, and there is a significant speed increase between these 2 in all things photon related. MR 3.0 was just barely feasible for quick turnaround. MR 3.1 is ready.


--Oh, and about not needing to update the photon map: Yeah. For something that doesn't move. But when the thing starts moving, you DO have to update it for every frame. You could do a flyaround of an object, and it will render blazing fast. But if the thing starts to act or anything, you're screwed, and then I would not be so quick to say it's OK for productions...

RIcky

I've just finished lighting my scene in less than 90 mins. Each frame renders in about 30 seconds at full AA, and high Final Gathering accuracy. I think I can attest that it's okay for production at this point. I'm producing right now.

frumpy_bunyin
09-28-2002, 02:57 AM
If you do find things a little slow it is still possible to split it into passes. For things that do not need photon maps re calculated per frame bang 'em in one pass, for you things that move chuck 'em in another.

FB

withanar
09-28-2002, 03:33 AM
Yup, but no need to split into passes this time. I dropped by work after dinner and the 120 frame render's already finished.

wgreenlee1
09-28-2002, 05:36 AM
Wow!
Xsi is finally catching up to Lightwave huh?

Stimpy
09-28-2002, 09:33 AM
oooooh.. how very exciting. this thread has turned into another one of those "my software is better than yours" thingies. how novel..


i am just excited that fully integrated HDRI support is now coming to the software of my choice.

whater makes your boat float and gets the job done.

lmc
09-28-2002, 04:30 PM
cool, i am waiting for update my1:bounce:

withanar
09-28-2002, 09:04 PM
It's amazing that every time anyone demonstrates an application doing anything well, there must always be a handful of people who feel the need to step in and say... "that's no big deal", or "it's not production worthy", when:
A) Nobody desired or implied any challenges.
B) The challenges contain gross misinformation.

XSI in particular has always been a target for this kind of potshot, which has conditioned the user base into being more zealous than others.

While I don't mind if people say they like or don't like something, it bugs me when I see people making claims about facts that simply aren't true.

So what to do. Do we ignore the misinformation and let it sit, hoping that industry people check for themselves, or do we try to correct it?

Any attempt at correction takes on the tone of the "app war" and is immediately shunned. However, I've talked to too may industry people who unfortunately don't check up on facts and believe what the rumor mill dishes out. There is a negative side to simply taking the high road and ignoring the potshots.


Originally posted by Stimpy
oooooh.. how very exciting. this thread has turned into another one of those "my software is better than yours" thingies. how novel..


i am just excited that fully integrated HDRI support is now coming to the software of my choice.

whater makes your boat float and gets the job done.

Stimpy
09-28-2002, 09:24 PM
ummm... just why did you quote me, if i may ask ?

withanar
09-28-2002, 10:00 PM
Ummm, immitation is the sincerist form of flattery... :D
Actually, I wasn't really directing this at you.

Your post had just pointed out how things seemed to be turning towards software war... even though I was tring to correct the statement that HDR-I with FG is not production worthy in XSI.


Originally posted by Stimpy
ummm... just why did you quote me, if i may ask ?

Stimpy
09-28-2002, 10:08 PM
oh ok. phew..

i thought you had maybe mis-interpreted my question about the hdri integration being production worthy yet.

all is well.. :D

Dirk_P_Ho
09-29-2002, 06:14 AM
I find it scary that nobody has realized that its an Esspresso machine....im pretty sure...

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