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Nigel-Q
03-23-2005, 10:05 PM
Nigel Quarless has entered the Master and Servant 2D.

Challenge Page (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/masterandservant/view_entries.php?challenger=6313)

Latest Update: Final Image: Patriarch's Fix - final jpg
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1116403506_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1116403506_large.jpg)

Well, here is my final submission.

The theme of this piece could be summed up as " a man who is master of everything is still a slave to his ego and desires ". Here sits a king on a throne that's too big for him, attended by two mysterious female figures, his advisor on the left and his concubine on the right. The king is the patriarch of a once glorious and now decimated kingdom. The throne is an iconic, powerful structure representing a kingdom built on strong rulership and a legacy of wisdom. The ethos of this state and the philosophical foundation it was built on was refinement of the soul - a pursuit now long lost. This is shown by the markings that adorn the throne, now cracked and disintegrating like the kingdom itself. The seated patriarch is dwarfed by the throne's size. He is propped up by books of philosophy and politics, now the only use for which is to make up for his lack of physical stature. The king's crown is much too big for him, showing that he's the degenerate inheritor of a kingdom built by greater men. Unfit for the trappings of his position, he is literally and figuratively too small a man to live up to the sovereignty and power he has inherited, not earned. His posture suggests boredom and his expression is of indifference. The king is physically emaciated, weak and sickly. He no longer cares for his appearance, his robe rests around his waist, his cape is tattered and worn, and his leggings unravel. He has no will to rule or motivation to govern, only the lust for his concubine and the false praise of his advisor are in his mind.

The weak state of this apparent ruler is advantageous to his attendees...the real masters here. The advisor symbolically represents the king's ego. She's a cold green to represent the king's corrupt self and poisoned mind. Her design is serpentine to suggest her true nature, that of deception. She has twisted his mind with false counsel and lies; she now rules through him, a mere puppet. Her poisoned words are symbolically shown by the snakes of smoke that encircle the king's head, clouding it with confusion. The concubine on the right represents the king's desires. A warmer violet hue suggests emotion and sensuality. The horns on her headdress suggest virility and she's wearing an outfit that is revealing, yet at the same time uninviting. Her allure and physical beauty distract the king, making him an unwitting target for the advisor's deception. Both female figures' poses suggest servitude, but allude to their true alignment. The advisor hides a dagger behind her back and the concubine's eyes are fixed on the king's scepter. Their expressions are dark and slightly menacing, yet subtle enough to pass for compliance.

At the moment shown here, the advisor has at last gained full control of the king's mind and is making the final suggestion for him to give up his power--he is on the verge of handing his scepter over to the waiting concubine. No longer a ruler of even his own destiny, the patriarch is about to be assasinated and die a pathetic victim of his own ignorance and wanton disregard for the responsibility of his role.


I'd like to thank everyone who tookthe time to view my piece during this challenge and especially those who took the time to comment. your critiques and comments were incredibly helpful, motivating and inspiring... without your input this wouldn't come nearly as far. thanks alot!

Nigel-Q
03-23-2005, 10:36 PM
uploaded the pic here onto cgtalk server.

Nigel-Q
03-24-2005, 05:03 PM
got rid of this post as my image wasn't on cgtalk server...

BlackDidThis
03-25-2005, 11:30 PM
Very nice sketches so far Nigel,

But do you have a background story running aswel? I would really have liked to know who the throned man is.. and those women serving him.

Things look promising..

mybutterflyiris
03-25-2005, 11:37 PM
This is looking good. I hope you know though, that you have to submit your stuff (ie. milestones:concept sketch, line art, coloring, etc..) through the cg talk thing instead of using your own image hosting site. Here is a link: http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/masterandservant/submit_entry.phpand good luck in the contest.

Nigel-Q
03-26-2005, 10:13 AM
Black Did This - thank you very much. i do have quite a bit of back ground for this, i'm still gathering my thoughts, but i should have a short write up ready in a bit.

mybutterflyiris - no, i didn't know that actually, thanks a ton for that advice and for the comments... these sketches are just wip stuff. there's still a couple ideas i need to integrate into my concept sketch so i'll do the official submission once it's revised. or do you have to submit everything through the cgtalk server???

OKMER
03-26-2005, 10:18 AM
Concept seems a little bit classic ,but hey wowww so nice sketches!!!nice start man,keep m coming!!
Maybe try to figure out a bit more a original relation between the master and his slaves.
I'll be watching this one:thumbsup:

Nigel-Q
03-26-2005, 10:30 AM
Concept seems a little bit classic ,but hey wowww so nice sketches!!!nice start man,keep m coming!!
Maybe try to figure out a bit more a original relation between the master and his slaves.
I'll be watching this one:thumbsup:

thanks, okmer!
Hahaha, yeah, it really does at this point but there's some detail missing in these that will help explain that the dynamic is not so classic. trust me these won't be your typical serving wenches!!! hehehe.
hopefully i'll be able to make people question who is really in control here. alot of that will come through in the character expression - if i can manage it.

Basically the theme is "even a man who's master of everything is still slave to his own ego and desires."

Nigel-Q
03-26-2005, 08:58 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1111874292_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1111874292_large.jpg)

just an initial rough concept sketch, still need to add some elements and tweak composition.

Nigel-Q
03-26-2005, 09:02 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1111874549_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1111874549_large.jpg)

added a bit of detail and refined the sketch.

Nigel-Q
03-26-2005, 09:24 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1111875856_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1111875856_large.jpg)

this is a color sketch of the character on the left. she's an "advisor" to the throned figure and represents the king's ego.

Nigel-Q
03-27-2005, 01:43 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1111891393_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1111891393_large.jpg)

here's a sketch of the character on the right - the king's concubine.

Nigel-Q
03-27-2005, 07:19 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1111911591_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1111911591_large.jpg)

this should be my final concept sketch.

eclipson
03-27-2005, 07:22 AM
Cool...Nice colors :twisted: , can't wait to see ur colouring progress,:thumbsup:

GoodLux!!

ninox
03-27-2005, 07:27 AM
Hi Nigel Q,

Just like eclipson, I find your sketches very nice and I am waiting to see your colouring progress.

Have fun and good luck to you,:)

ninOx

tomaz
03-27-2005, 07:37 AM
Hi Nigel, I am new here in this world of cg, but your concepts sketches are realy good. I will have a look on your work.

best tomaz

eupee
03-27-2005, 09:08 AM
cool composition and technique.

NOOB!
03-27-2005, 11:45 AM
yeh looks amazin!!

Nigel-Q
03-27-2005, 08:41 PM
Hey, thank you guys for taking the time to reply to this... really appreciate the comments.

I'll be hoping for lots of input as this develops, I'm especially interested in hearing your impressions of the relationships in the piece and what you think is going on between the characters.
I'll have more to post a bit later.

Thanks!

Nigel-Q
03-28-2005, 06:48 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1112039321_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1112039321_large.jpg)

here's a quick colour sketch of the figure on the right, the king's concubine.

OKMER
03-28-2005, 10:52 PM
Wow,I love your colors and sketching style Nigel!!!
In that last sketch her hips seems a tiny little bit too low,and exept when she's floating ofcourse,she seems not in balance.Just like she's going to fall forwards.
I hope my english is clear enough for you to understand what I'm trying to say.
Anyway,good luck and have fun,.I subscribe on this one!!

Nigel-Q
03-28-2005, 11:04 PM
yeah, i do see what you're saying, no problem with the english. i did take some liberties with the anatomy, i wanted to really emphasize the forward sweep of her pose, it did end up looking a bit off balance... oh well, as long as it's not too distracting. thanks for the crits!

lanedaughtry
03-28-2005, 11:55 PM
My favorite character designs so far.

My only crit so far is that I'd like to see a bit more striking contrast in the color work and the lighting in particular.

Otherwise gorgeous.

-L

artjunkie
03-29-2005, 10:48 AM
wow, nice style and great colours. I really like the composition you've chosen also - you might want to sketch some alternate angles to get something a little more dramatic? Just a thought. Anyway, keep up the great work and I'll check back for updates.

Cheers

Nigel-Q
03-29-2005, 05:01 PM
Thanks guys,

lane_daughtry - I'll be playing around with the lighting for sure. and thanks for the character comments!

Artjunkie - thanks for the suggestion, i've been thinking the scene isn't quite dramatic enough, it needs something... it would be cool to get in closer to the characters as well. I'm going to mess around with it a bit. I've been watching your thread as well...it's shaping up nice.

The Nildo
03-29-2005, 06:50 PM
Wow, this is great, while I was looking over your shoulder at work I saw you post this stuff, you should get back to work, we have a game to ship.

Peace

Nigel-Q
03-30-2005, 08:48 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1112176086_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1112176086_large.jpg)

tweaked the lighting a bit.

Nigel-Q
03-30-2005, 11:03 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1112227408_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1112227408_large.jpg)

a study of the throned central figure in the piece, the mad king.

Rudeone
03-30-2005, 11:49 PM
didn't checked this thread yet.
Dude you have some friggin awesome character designs:buttrock:
No crits or input for now, but I'll definitly keep my eye out for this one, keep em coming!

Miker
03-31-2005, 12:14 AM
like your work so far, its very impressive. love the expression on the kings face. good job :)

Nigel-Q
03-31-2005, 08:38 PM
Thanks, fellas...

Rudeone - glad you're stoked on the characer designs, i'm thinking of tweaking the composition to showcase them a bit better. Bring on the crits!

Miker - thanks man, much appreciated.

Dancin' Mochi
03-31-2005, 09:57 PM
Very nice art style! Good luck to you, and myself too...

Nigel-Q
04-05-2005, 04:43 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1112719383_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1112719383_large.jpg)

I've tweaked the composition. I didn't like the front on shot after a while, and i think this is way more dynamic.
I wanted to do a real quick value sketch to make sure it'll read well before i tightened up the linework.

paulwdavidson
04-05-2005, 05:58 PM
Very nice.........like it a lot


Paul

sandsekh
04-05-2005, 06:28 PM
hi nigel.....been following your thread for quite some time now....the last post is just as good as your previous post...love your lightings man:thumbsup:

Nigel-Q
04-05-2005, 07:45 PM
Paul Davidson - thanks alot man, glad you're liking this. i was getting annoyed with my previous sketches and i think this new angle resolves my issues. I've been watching your piece develop and it's shaping up quite nicely! I like the effect you're getting with the latest color wip of the genie head.

sandsekh - thanks for the big thumbs up!

taz23
04-06-2005, 07:57 AM
This new composition works much better! Great stuff! Love the colors. Good luck dude!

BlackDidThis
04-06-2005, 08:13 AM
I was looking forward for an update!
Things are looking really cool here!

keep em up!


Black

Nigel-Q
04-06-2005, 05:43 PM
taz23 - thanks man, great to get your opinion on the composition. I think it's working waaay better and I'm comfortable moving forward with it.

BlackDidThis - thanks, dude. more updates on the way. hopefully line art will be done tonight if i get a few more hours in.

Nigel-Q
04-12-2005, 09:26 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1113341164_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1113341164_large.jpg)

so this is my lineart milestone. i took my time to really get a tight line and resovle most of my design and composition. i usually find that a tight line helps me paint faster. the linework may change as the painting goes forward, and i may drop it altogether eventually... we'll see what happens from here.

Nigel-Q
04-13-2005, 05:02 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1113411770_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1113411770_large.jpg)

okay so i lied. THIS is more like the final line. I had missed a few details in the previous post that needed to be added. The scepter the king is handing over is a crutial part of the story. I hadn't decided exactly what it would be to symbolize the king's loss of power, but I've settled on it and I think it works.

Please give feedback... I'd really apprecioate it. How do you like the composition, details, expression? Is some kind of story shaping up for you?

any comments are appreciated.

Thanks for looking!

Nigel-Q
04-14-2005, 04:54 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1113497682_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1113497682_large.jpg)

started adding value to the line art. still need to add more contrast and bring out the forms a bit.

grf
04-14-2005, 09:50 PM
Sweet throne man! Love the elongated style in this piece. Lighting's coming along nicely. :thumbsup:

I'm watching....

AlyFell
04-14-2005, 11:17 PM
Your concept and your line art are fab! Like you say, when you bring out the forms, this is will come to life! I like the Kabbalistic symbols on the throne. The only thing that bothers me about the composition, is the slight tilt to the left of the throne. I kind of expect a true vertical here, but this is very minor really! :)

Nigel-Q
04-15-2005, 01:56 AM
R Frederickson - Thanks alot. Glad you like the vertical feel. I want the throne to look as though it's way too big for the king - to symbolize that he's unfit to rule over a once great kingdom that's now fallen into ruin.
I saw your piece today, it's looking great, i've left my comments in your thread. thanks.

Poshspice - Thanks for your input! Glad you dig the concept. I took my time with the linework hoping that it would indeed come to life and feel more dynamic once i started the rendering, a tight line with resolved design and composition really help my painting come along faster... but i was worried it was going to turn out a bit tight and bland, so your comments are encouraging.
I wanted the off kilter angle to bring a feel of uncertainty to it, rather than have this mad king look authoritative. I think I'll experiment with mellowing out the off axis horizon line and see what it does, though. Cheers!

taz23
04-15-2005, 09:14 AM
This is going great man, you need a big contrast light-shadow on the king. I'm waiting for the new update. Cheers! :thumbsup:

PS: those masonic symbols and objects are a good idea :)

AlyFell
04-15-2005, 09:35 AM
Nigel, do you know this guys work? Beresford Egan...

Egan (http://www.sademarchese.org/louys/pausolegan/egan.htm)

a bit Aubrey Beardsley...

duddlebug
04-15-2005, 09:50 AM
This is looking good... i really like the 'off-kilter' throne.

And the character concepts of the ladies are just lovely and dark and seductive.



.

Nigel-Q
04-15-2005, 10:02 PM
taz23 - thanks. i'm going to finish up the values and then do some lightiung experiments to find the right mood. there will be lots of contrast for sure, i'm going to go for a stark and moody feel.
i'm glad the masonic symbols are adding to story for you. the alchemical seal is supposed to represent "refinement of the soul" which is what this patriarch has failed to achieve - the crack running through it a not so subtle symbol for the degradation and loss of these values in this ruined kingdom.

Posh - thanks for that link, i have to admit i've never heared of Beresford Egam, but his work is soooo friggin cool. exactly the kind of twisted, perverse and corrupt pomp and pageantry i was looking to portray here. "king pausole" could totally be an inspiration for this character. thanks!

duddlebug - thanks for commenting, lovely and dark and seductive is what i was shooting for!

BlackDidThis
04-16-2005, 09:22 AM
hmm.. .let me see.. About the composition:
I am afraid I shall have to go with Posh on this one...
I like the way the mass of the throne pulls the activity of the image down. But it does look a bit too much to the left. Maybe an awkward perspective would have changed that in the line art stage.
Shall you concider experimenting with the horizon like you had said, can you also spare some time to skew the image a bit giving it a perspective look from above? Thus making the throne shrink more on where he is seated?
I can understand what you personally went for in your explanation to PoshSpice. And I have to again agree that you have managed to give the authority to the hands of the maidens; the picture through out. And I presume you may obtain that better in aid of colours.

As for the deatils.. there is a mass amount of details finely payed attention for. Very little to say on that area other than compliments to your success. I liked the way you supported his foot from the side wall to justify his odd stance on the books. The manner the rope has been tightened to fit his now boney waist (Leaving the rope long enough to suggest that it was meant to wrap a thicker individual than what he is now). The flaps of his cape.. the throne.. ALOT of details!!
The only fine detail that doesn't fall in as perfect may be the crown. At our childhood our head grows to it's full capacity and remains that size all through out our life. Being the reason why children seem to have a much bigger head to compair to their bodies. I loved the detail of his crown leaning on his neck for support. But his head shouldn't have really shrunk in the first place.
That said, I am in doubt for if you whould change it. Because it really gives the feeling of the brokenness, the being beaten, drained. Your call.

And as for the expressions...
It is very theatrical actually. Mmm the best way I can explain it is like in the old days of no moives or close up shots. The way the actors/actresses had to give the whole story through their body since their face was not too vivid.
The story is told, and the expresions are given.. but with lines alone, I have to accept that it is a difficult expression to capture at this scale. Nothing too wrong in this front I would say.

Hope you had the time to read all that :rolleyes: ... sorry
Well this should tell you that your image was impressive enough to take this much of my attention! It was very promising from day one.
Keep it up!


Black

Vectorius
04-16-2005, 12:44 PM
VERY GOOD.. I've just to say that your image ist too dark..maybe you're working on..just add some lights in order to accentuate brightness and contraste... Your character look good and i think that master and servant feeling are great in your picture..

Kepp it up good luck

Eterna2
04-16-2005, 05:10 PM
these are looking awesome!

Nigel-Q
04-17-2005, 10:04 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1113775445_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1113775445_large.jpg)

more value added plus some local colour and a bit of lighting indication.
i still need to bring out more contrast in the values and deal with the rest of the local colour before i move on to lighting passes.

thanks to everyone who's commented, your thoughts are appreciated.

Blackdidthis - Wow, thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughts, you've really taken in alot of this piece and it's great to hear that my details are telling the story. I tweaked the horizon line as you and posh had suggested and mellowed out the off kilter angle a bit. I think it works better.
As for the crown size, it's meant to be sized according to the throne. The king is trying to live up to a position and legacy that he is inadequate to ever fulfill, symbolized by huge throne and crown that dwarf him.
It's good to hear the expressions are coming through as well, I was worried the size would get in the way of them coming across.

Fiolka Alexandre - Thanks. Good to know the theme is well portrayed here for you!

Eterna2 - thanks! much appreciated.

Nigel-Q
04-18-2005, 05:06 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1113843991_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1113843991_large.jpg)

did some more work on it. values are mostly established and introduced more lighting. added glow in the dog statues mouth and smoke as well.

Vectorius
04-18-2005, 05:26 PM
his image is really very beautiful!! the idea better is perceived that you want to make pass with the bulkier object... cool!! really very good work!

Keep going on!!:bounce:

artjunkie
04-18-2005, 05:32 PM
Your paints are coming along beautifully! Love the compostion, the lighting is nice and the character designs are kickin'! :applause: You gonna put some tapestries or something in the bg? Might be nice to bring some of the colour you used on the king up into the bg... *shrug*

Wonderful stuff... lovely poses. I can't wait to see more!

Cheers!

fooxoo
04-18-2005, 05:47 PM
Very cool characters! Maybe you could use a little bit of brighter colours somewhere? (that is just my prefernce :)) Good luck! Looks cool :D

grafik
04-18-2005, 05:50 PM
Hi
great composition! this paint is going very good indeed!!!
Good luck!


my MASTER & SLAVE:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=2138465 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=2138465)

arLutiK
04-18-2005, 06:11 PM
It's looking really awesome, great work :thumbsup:

kornel
04-18-2005, 06:26 PM
Great characters! I love the mood of your pic!

I'll keep my eyes on you...

best regards: KornÚl

BlackDidThis
04-18-2005, 08:23 PM
Form your first sketch forward.. your talents were definitely promising!
And the image so far is definitely not proving things wrong.

I have to say that the new lighting is working very good. But it is mostly the dog's that are really doing a trick there (Pun not intentional)...
The lights hitting the servants faces.. especially the aubergine one... Where are they coming from? Actually as far as I get it, you paint in a colour value then you start merging that to the image.
Soo this may just be a pre version of where they are getting to.

Everything is looking truly marvellous. I understand now your intentions on the crown. Well then yes, even there you have expressed it very well. He looks like a ridiculous child with his daddies hat :)

I am so enjoying everything you are showing us. Best of luck with the rest!


Black

Nigel-Q
04-18-2005, 11:40 PM
Hey thanks for the replies everyone!

Fiolka Alexandre - glad you like how it's coming along.

artjunkie - thanks, man. i want to work some colour movement into the bg. it definately needs some attention. i like your suggestion, i might put some colour into the tattered flags hanging there or work some variation in some way...

fooxoo - thanks, glad you like my characters. i'm working on colour and lighting passes now so i'll post some experiments...

grafil, arlutik, kornel - thanks for the comments guys.

BlackDidThis - once again, thank you for your extensive comments!
glad to hear the lighting is looking good for you. as for my methods, you're right. i sometimes put in the light source first, then paint in the effects on the characters, but as you guessed, i do work the other way as well, highlighting what i want to emphasize on the characters and working backwards from there. i haven't really done a "lighting pass" yet, i'm mostly working with the local colour and values, actual lighting and cast shadows will come next, to help define where the source is coming from. theoretically the light is coming from some kind of narrow shaft, above and slightly in front and to the viewer's right of the characters. maybe a crack in the roof or a break in dense clouds to simulate a spotlight effect.
any more thoughts you have on my next posts would be appreciated. thanks, man!

Nigel-Q
04-19-2005, 05:16 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1113930991_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1113930991_large.jpg)

i started playing around with the background last night. thanks to artjunkie who suggested having some tapestries bring the king's colours into the back, that's 2 good ones from you now. i didn't do exactly that, but it did open me up to trying something out back there, so thanks.

just wanting to add some depth and colour movement, let m know what you think.

clayeraser
04-19-2005, 06:54 PM
SIZE=3]Just wanted to say great work.... I love the detail on the throne.[/SIZE][ :applause:

grf
04-20-2005, 06:55 AM
Hehehe, lovin' those pants! :thumbsup:

Smyk Vitaliy
04-20-2005, 07:34 AM
Hi dude ! Here is my feedback on your work. Whole picture is good, but background looking empty. Add some details as brick walls, chains, i don`t know. And make primary person as( master) more brightly. Anyway your work is great !!! Best regards pal !

xric7
04-20-2005, 08:12 AM
excellent work:bounce:
your lighting is cool and also you character design

can't wait to see more


my master and servant 2d
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=227677

Nigel-Q
04-20-2005, 06:47 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1114022855_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1114022855_large.jpg)

just a minor update.
i've tightened up the carving details on the throne and like them much better.
i've also started to work the black lineart into the image and getting it more painterly. i really like what that has done for it, although so far it's barely visible at this res.

thanks to everyone who has commented, i really appreciate it.

clayeraser - thanks. hope you like the new and improved throne detail as well.

R Frederickson - hahaha, thanks man! it's funny, the actual initial inspiration for the pants was to make him look a bit like a jester or fool - coincidentally really similar to what you went for.

Smyk Vitaliy - thank you very much for the feedback and i'm glad you like my work. yeah, the bg will get some attention for sure. there'll be some cracked columns back there, maybe even some tapestries as well as some subtle lighting and colour movement. probably won't go too into detail though, as i want to keep the attention in the foreground. the king's lighting will be brought up too. there are some black and dark areas that are bothering me. your piece is looking great, btw.

xric7 - thanks! really appreciate your comments, i've really tried hard to push my lighting and character designs with this so that's great to hear. love your piece too - awesome, clean painting style.

BlacKeri
04-23-2005, 12:14 AM
I admire your style a lot. Wonderful color choices, *very* good character designs... And boy howdy, do I love that throne or what!

Nigel-Q
04-25-2005, 09:06 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1114463183_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1114463183_large.jpg)

a detail shot. i've dropped the linework and i'm in the process of blending and cleaning up. very time consuming, but i'm almost done.

eparts
04-25-2005, 09:31 PM
nice detailing. very clean and nice.
the face of the king is very interresting and expressive.
lovely use of symbolism in the background :)

V_Shane
04-25-2005, 10:55 PM
Very cool style.. I like where your going with this.

authentic
04-26-2005, 01:50 PM
I follow this thread since the start; Very classic concept but ery welll executed. Nice use of colors, good design. I like it.

Nigel-Q
04-29-2005, 05:04 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1114794291_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1114794291_large.jpg)

hey everyone, here's another update.
i've dropped the line and cleaned up and refined the colours. i also added some hanging tapestries in the background to frame the composition better.
let me know what you think.

after this i'll do some colour and lighting tweaks...

thanks for looking!

flyingP
04-29-2005, 06:47 PM
oh this is cool, only crit I have is that upper section seems a bit too empty, love the colours though :)

RichTee
04-29-2005, 09:21 PM
Greetings

Contrary to other posts, personally I wouldn't overwork the upper portion of the composition. I don't think the image looks bare at the top, I love the way the eye is drawn down and into the characters.

The subdued colours compared to earlier posts work really well, giving this piece a more sombre, menacing tone, though i did like the highlights you had hitting the top of the throne, i think it might be worth trying to bring them back in, just slightly more subtle...?

Its a suberb image, and your concept work leading to this point gives an excellent insight into the working process.

Hats off to you mate, this is top notch stuff.

BlackDidThis
04-30-2005, 08:03 AM
I really like the new light leeks.. it so adds to the era you are building us up to.

Do you have a mind to add in some noisy specularity to the stone throne? The specular trimmings along the cracks helped it alot I accept. But more to just enhance the feel of rock/stone to compair to plasticish.

The image was very well sketched with a great variaty of details. And the painting in is going very good.
Good luck!


Black

Nigel-Q
05-03-2005, 05:28 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1115141294_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1115141294_large.jpg)

Hi everyone, here's another small, yet key update.
After some input from my girlfriend, who;s got a great eye for these things...I changed the scepter to match the size of the throne, it totally hadn't occured to me that they didn't match in scale at all. So the scepter doesn't look like a dainty magic wand anymore...
cleaned up the last of the fine details in the map/ chessboard thingy at his feet as well.
Next phase will be lighting tweaks, adding some texture and experiments, so that should be fun. I'll be bumping up the highlights, moving the colour around a bit and adding some cast shadows, smoke etc.

Thanks to everyone who has commented, I'm pretty far beyond being objective with this, so now is the time to tell me if something isn't looking right!

flyingp - thanks, glad you like it. thanks for the crits, i think the upper area will stay subdued though. i want the eye to move down to the characters, so more detail up there would be distracting i think.

bumphluff - thanks for your input it's really great, well thought out stuff and much appreciated! I'm going to bring those highlights back in for sure, along with some shadow areas to bump up the contrast, without doing an overall tweak to the image to maintain the less saturated look i've got here.
glad my wip stuff has shown the process well. once again, i really appreciate your compliments and input, cheers!

BlackDidThis - thanks man. Great suggestion for the throne, I think it needs some texture too, so i'm going to play around with adding some - make it look rougher and older. it should look like it's from an ancient kingdom that has fallen into decay for years, so some more roughed up texture could help that.

Tranchefeux
05-03-2005, 06:44 PM
Hi, Design and technique of force on your painting, go, go for the continuation.
:thumbsup:

Nigel-Q
05-04-2005, 06:19 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1115230754_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1115230754_large.jpg)

thought i'd post a detail shot to get in closer to the character expressions.
i'm thinking about cropping the image differently to get in closer since some of the more subtle expressions that get lost in the wider shot.

arkinet
05-04-2005, 11:28 PM
i think your post#78 is ok, can make-out the characters expression. you'll be sendng a bigger file for finals anyway, so dnt worry about it. I love your tyle dude, your stroke & mood of the character comes together neatly... great job!!:thumbsup:

Nigel-Q
05-05-2005, 08:26 PM
Tranchefeux - thanks! haha, yeah, i'm kinda just chipping away at it this week... taking a bit of a break. I'll be really motivated in the coming weeks to polish it up nicely though.

arkinet - thanks, man. really appreciate the comments. yeah, i'm not thinking of cropping it landscape or anything, i've just been wanting to address the contest requirements of character expression. i don't want to do all this tight work and not have it seen. you're right though, at full res at should stand out enough. thanks again!

O.Martin
05-07-2005, 11:35 AM
Brilliant style and concept. Like the facial expressions too. :thumbsup:

Hof
05-09-2005, 01:04 PM
Great! The expresion is very strong. The light is very interesting. I like it :thumbsup:

Nigel-Q
05-09-2005, 04:49 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1115657341_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1115657341_large.jpg)

here's the latest...
i've changed the scepter again, i like it better now. more tweaking and cleaning up, i also cropped the height of the composition to better suit the entry guidlines and i think it helps focus on the characters much more.

feel free to let me know if anything is off/ditracting/unclear or otherwise crappy.

thanks for looking.

calisto-lynn
05-09-2005, 04:50 PM
great idea. i love ur pic!:) :thumbsup:

Squibbit
05-09-2005, 05:17 PM
that king reminds me of that disney jungle book tiger

nice pic

um.. he giving up his throne ?

GhostInTheMachine
05-09-2005, 06:04 PM
good paintwork. enjoy the challenge! :D

Cheers, GITM

Nigel-Q
05-10-2005, 05:15 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1115745321_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1115745321_large.jpg)

some more subtle tweaks here. i dropped the saturation of the throne and darkened it a bit and i think it really helps to pop it out of the background, i may push it a bit further...

Thanks for the comments everyone! It sounds like the expressions and lighting are working from the feedback, especially from Hof and O.Martin, thanks guys.
Squibbit - Now that you mention it, I do see a bit of resemblance...I love that movie, maybe it worked it's way into the piece from my subconscious. And yeah, good call. he is giving up his power... his advisor has poisoned his mind and his concubine has distracted him. i imagine his slaves here are actually ruling the kingdom with him as a puppet, ready to assasinate him if their scheme goes awry. the apparent master here is actually a slave to his own ego and desires... the archetypal patriarch who's unfit for the position he's been given and a worthless ruler, more interested in himself than his kingdom.
but of course, it's open to interpretation ;)

Nigel-Q
05-15-2005, 10:38 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1116196711_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1116196711_large.jpg)

Well, here is my final colouring...
It's pretty much the final image, although I may tweak a few little things here and there.
Thanks to everyone who's taken the time to look and give me comments and feedback, it's really helped me push this further than I would have.
Thanks to all the other great artists who've shown work in this challenge as well, all the great work has been inspiring.
If you've got any thoughts on this piece or critiques please let me know so I can work them in before final.

Thanks for looking.

RichTee
05-15-2005, 10:53 PM
Absolutely top banana...

This is a great image, from the out your clarity of thought as to how this piece would develop has been evident in a series of excellent WIP's.

You have an excellent style, with pushed angles and an overall flow of work that draws the eye around the image.

My one minor complaint is that you seem to have cropped the image, i loved the way the light was playing on the upper most parts of the throne. However the pillars now sit a little awkwardly in frame. Pah....thats only my opinion.

One of my favorite entries, this deserves to place well

Great work Nigel, and good luck

Nigel-Q
05-16-2005, 05:17 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1116263854_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1116263854_large.jpg)

Thanks for your comments, bumphluff. Really great to hear you've enjoyed what I've done here, especially your attention to my thought progress and wips. I appreciate you taking the time. You've made a great suggestion as well, and I've opened up the composition a little to give it a bit more breathing room, I think there's just enough light areas at the top now balanced with just enough of a dark border on the bottom. I think the pillars do still sit a bit awkwardly, but oh well.

Any more thoughts before I call this thing final and put it behind me????

thanks for looking.

arkinet
05-16-2005, 05:40 PM
still aweomse dude!!

RichTee
05-16-2005, 07:37 PM
ahoy there Nigel

I still really liked the image where the entire throne was visible, with daylight between the throne pillars and the top of the frame. But then i can also appreciate you wanting to focus the image a little tighter around the players in the scene.

Whatever you opt for as your final submission, you've done yourself proud. Its a belting image with a really menacing, slightly subdued palette.

I wanted to go to your homepage and look at some of your previous work, but alas it appears you don't have one:(

Good luck anyroad. Great work mate

Nigel-Q
05-17-2005, 04:56 PM
thanks, fellas!
bumphluff - i'm right there with you on the throne issue, and i will probably keep the full image with the throne exposed entirely for my own purposes, but for the challenge guidelines I just had to chop it. your comments have been really gratifying after all the work i've put in this, just having my work stand out a little amongst all the talent here for someone is a great feeling, and inspires me to work more and post more.
I'm currently working on assembling my previous work and building a portfolio website, so i'll be sure to let you know when i've got something online.

cheers!

Nigel-Q
05-18-2005, 08:05 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1116403506_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/6313/6313_1116403506_large.jpg)

Well, here is my final submission.

The theme of this piece could be summed up as " a man who is master of everything is still a slave to his ego and desires ". Here sits a king on a throne that's too big for him, attended by two mysterious female figures, his advisor on the left and his concubine on the right. The king is the patriarch of a once glorious and now decimated kingdom. The throne is an iconic, powerful structure representing a kingdom built on strong rulership and a legacy of wisdom. The ethos of this state and the philosophical foundation it was built on was refinement of the soul - a pursuit now long lost. This is shown by the markings that adorn the throne, now cracked and disintegrating like the kingdom itself. The seated patriarch is dwarfed by the throne's size. He is propped up by books of philosophy and politics, now the only use for which is to make up for his lack of physical stature. The king's crown is much too big for him, showing that he's the degenerate inheritor of a kingdom built by greater men. Unfit for the trappings of his position, he is literally and figuratively too small a man to live up to the sovereignty and power he has inherited, not earned. His posture suggests boredom and his expression is of indifference. The king is physically emaciated, weak and sickly. He no longer cares for his appearance, his robe rests around his waist, his cape is tattered and worn, and his leggings unravel. He has no will to rule or motivation to govern, only the lust for his concubine and the false praise of his advisor are in his mind.

The weak state of this apparent ruler is advantageous to his attendees...the real masters here. The advisor symbolically represents the king's ego. She's a cold green to represent the king's corrupt self and poisoned mind. Her design is serpentine to suggest her true nature, that of deception. She has twisted his mind with false counsel and lies; she now rules through him, a mere puppet. Her poisoned words are symbolically shown by the snakes of smoke that encircle the king's head, clouding it with confusion. The concubine on the right represents the king's desires. A warmer violet hue suggests emotion and sensuality. The horns on her headdress suggest virility and she's wearing an outfit that is revealing, yet at the same time uninviting. Her allure and physical beauty distract the king, making him an unwitting target for the advisor's deception. Both female figures' poses suggest servitude, but allude to their true alignment. The advisor hides a dagger behind her back and the concubine's eyes are fixed on the king's scepter. Their expressions are dark and slightly menacing, yet subtle enough to pass for compliance.

At the moment shown here, the advisor has at last gained full control of the king's mind and is making the final suggestion for him to give up his power--he is on the verge of handing his scepter over to the waiting concubine. No longer a ruler of even his own destiny, the patriarch is about to be assasinated and die a pathetic victim of his own ignorance and wanton disregard for the responsibility of his role.


I'd like to thank everyone who tookthe time to view my piece during this challenge and especially those who took the time to comment. your critiques and comments were incredibly helpful, motivating and inspiring... without your input this wouldn't come nearly as far. thanks alot!

taz23
05-18-2005, 08:29 AM
Great work Nigel, nice and clean but in the same time mysterious and dark. Good luck man! See you next time! :)

Tremoside
05-18-2005, 08:39 AM
Hi Nigel,

I like your idea it's a bit familiar with mine, but just in the thoughts. U relized it well with those filigran characters and posing! :applause:

Nigel-Q
05-18-2005, 05:12 PM
taz23 - thanks! yeah, no matter how painterly i try to get, i always end up with clean work... i guess that's just my style. i've really enjoyed watching your piece develop as well and this has been alot of fun and a great experience for me to grow as an artist. thanks for your comments and crits and i'll see ya next time for sure.

Tremoside - " Sometimes we're servants of our own ideas and habits..." from your description - absolutely! it's great how a similar concept can come out in such different visual expressions.
thanks for your comments!

Aniii
05-18-2005, 05:40 PM
Hello :)

I like your work too !
I find it a bit too smooth... Perhaps you should add some textures, on the wall behind, for example ?? It's only my humble opinion :p In any case, I find your painting very good :)

Ani.

Nigel-Q
05-18-2005, 08:18 PM
thanks ani, great to hear your opinion on this, especially since i liked your piece alot.
i do see your point about it being smooth, my stuff always ends up a bit too clean, but i think i'm just going to move on, i feel i've overworked it enough already!

RichTee
05-18-2005, 08:52 PM
the backstory to this picture is almost as intruiging as the image itself, on reading this, further scrutinisation is necessay to pick out all the subtle nuances you've depicted...the kings plight looks in a sorry state, but the same can't be said about this image :)

Top marks fella....superb

Nigel-Q
05-19-2005, 04:53 PM
haha, i was hoping people would take the time to read my voluminous description, i tried to keep it short but just ended up going off a bit. it does shed alot of light on what's happening. there's a few details in the piece i didn't write about as well that still support the story and add to the characters. maybe i'll flesh out this world a bit more someday...

thanks again!

xric7
05-19-2005, 06:22 PM
excellent work!!
love ur characters and lighting a lot.
congratulation on finish and good luck to u.:bounce: :thumbsup: :applause: :buttrock:

Nigel-Q
05-19-2005, 11:33 PM
thanks, xric7. that's flattering coming from you... your entry is fantastic!

arkinet
05-20-2005, 12:44 AM
congratultions, your final really rocks!!!:thumbsup:

artjunkie
05-20-2005, 08:56 PM
Brilliant finish my friend... I love this piece! Great mood and wonderful designs!

Good luck in the judging!

Cheers!

AlyFell
05-21-2005, 01:28 PM
Your final image is fab Nigel! You have loads of style, and you know what...? you were right about the off kilter perspective, it works... probably because it subtley un-nerves the viewer. :)

ebrowning
05-22-2005, 08:22 PM
Excellent finish! I really envy the completeness of it and it works as a storytelling piece. Great work!

camtheman
05-23-2005, 02:57 PM
With this kind of thought going into your entry, I'm sure you'll do well... good luck in the voting! :thumbsup:

My M&S:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=2316133#post2316133

BlackDidThis
05-23-2005, 04:08 PM
Congratulations on finishing your entry.. I am sorry on being away to miss out on your last steps... but I had some recovering in hand :sad:

The image looks great as it is and as it is presented. and it is a welcome change to finally be able to read what it is all about. :)
I agree about the throne, but understand your reasons. couldn't you have kept the hight and have it printed out narrower had it been selected? I always thaought the measuremnts given were only guidlines to take as possible examples.. and not as obligational proportions...
Well live and learn.

Good luck with your entry. It has a lot of skill displayed all through out it!


Black

ilusiondigital
05-23-2005, 04:22 PM
Very good, Nigel. Love the scene, (overall the girl of the left). Bella imagen.

Good luck

Nigel-Q
05-26-2005, 05:22 PM
arkinet, artjunkie - thanks guys!!!
Poshspice - glad you like it, man. i really do like your work... and i have to credit you for input on mellowing out the angle a bit, it wasn't so subtle before. cheers.
ebrowning - thanks alot! and like i said, your piece is outstanding man, very inspiring!
Cameron Gardner - thanks man.. and i hope so.
BlackDidThis - thanks dude, i hope you're feeling better. i agree about the throne cropping completely, but felt it was a worthwhile sacrifice. i think i'll actually do a full uncropped version for myself, and when i do i'll post one oinline and let you know.
ilusiondigital - thanks!

thanks again guys, and like i said before, i really appreciate all the comments and critiques that helped to make this piece way more of a success than it would have been otherwise.
this challenge was fun, can't wait for the next one already.

now how long do we all have to wait for the judging???

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