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Nakary
05-18-2005, 09:59 PM
Hey there, that is really a great landscape you have, high class art. I am kind of lost with the situation on the scene, I can read clearly who is the master, and who are the servants, I would like to depict what are they actually doing... :)
Great image... I think you could make a grear animated scene out of this, and put a story on it...

Congratulations.

Richard.

Virtuoso
05-18-2005, 10:06 PM
Nakary........ Thanks......I am glad you like my efforts,and can see this relationship......TYhese creations are all part of a massive project I have been working on......A dedicated site is coming very soon now....

They are (The Rudes) the servants.....they are in there Hear....see.....speak.....no evil poses....covering each others ears....mouth.....and eyes......Its the classic and well known stance of the hear......See...........speak...... no evil

Thanks.....

Virtuoso
05-18-2005, 10:15 PM
To the rest of you.......whats to say but thanks very much,I really do appreaciate your words and support,and am very grateful for them.....Thanks so much.......:thumbsup:

leandrone
05-18-2005, 10:32 PM
I am sorry, but I have to admit that I really cannot understand how this image relates to the theme in any way. Could you explain the concept? :curious:
Bearing in mind that the idea behind the challenge was to create a strong emotive angle that demonstrated a distinct, defined relationship between the entities in the image, I really cannot fathom what your concept is and how it relates to this theme...
Not trying to knock you, just really curious.


Come on Leigh make an effort...

it's obvious

the master is Virtuoso,
the servants, all the fanboys replying here...

I am totally shocked that you have trouble seeing this relationship

leigh
05-18-2005, 10:33 PM
Virtuoso, I didn't mean any offense in my comment. I just personally couldn't see the story in the image. I still have a bit of trouble really seeing any emotional relationship in your picture, but perhaps the judges will!

rattlesnake
05-18-2005, 10:33 PM
hey...this work looks just awesome...one of the most complete works into this challenge..u always choose a challenging concept and this one came out very cool ...i think your see no evil....hear no evil.......speak no evil....is a very nice idea , this make really interesting your story... is very original concept.... ill make some time now to take a deep look into your thread ...i want to see all your work with out missing a thing...

Good luck friend..one of the best works aroundhttp://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif. ill be looking for it at the voting mate

Virtuoso
05-18-2005, 10:53 PM
Leandrone: Who are you really? ,,,,,Please dont answer.

You can try and play with me from behind a monitor,means nothing to me,I dont know you,with your 17 replies...and insults in just my threads past and now.....

But you now have clearly slapped all my friends in the face.fans and great artists....I have been honored with there following......So you call everybody in my thread a fanboy.....Who do you think you are!You just insulted every single person in my thread......Great artists......

Stay out of here,you are very obvious.....I know the game that is being played here......I am onto it for sometime,I just never stooped to your level or your crew.Not worth a dignified answer....

You insult everyone here,great artists that I have been honored to have in my thread.....

I ask you to stay out,thats it,fair is fair.


Leigh: I am sorry you have this trouble seeing my theme.I cant imagine why?It is clear in the story,and clear in the picture.........

mmoir
05-18-2005, 10:55 PM
Hey Michael,
Nice to see you have finished your entry:thumbsup: , I think your entry is one where you need to read the story behind it to understand the image better. Anyways , your textures are very good as always :thumbsup: . I think the characters might blend in a little to much with the ground textures but that could be just me or your style. You did a fine job on this:thumbsup: :thumbsup: and your effort shows. Good luck and see ya later.

Johnlittle
05-18-2005, 11:05 PM
Hi Michael..... Whats to say.Just a most beautiful piece.You raise the bar everytime out.The theme is quite clear to me,and very well depicted.
The overall piece is an incredible example of modeling,textures,and overall style and imagination.Bravo on a top rate piece.And i'll look for you amongst the winners.Take good care buddy.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Virtuoso
05-18-2005, 11:14 PM
(rattlesnake...jorge).....Mmoir....... Johnlittle

Thanks very much for you'e words.....a hard but fun task is made all the better with you're thoughts....I appreaciate them.....:thumbsup:


..............

rattlesnake
05-18-2005, 11:16 PM
Come on Leigh make an effort...

it's obvious

the master is Virtuoso,
the servants, all the fanboys replying here...

I am totally shocked that you have trouble seeing this relationship


hahaha...ehmm sure ...can i see your works please? then we talk...
and if youre so good ...please do an effort to teach something instead trash talk other artists... we make an effort to learn with every challenge and all feedback we get...
thank u:deal:

Virtuoso
05-18-2005, 11:16 PM
______________________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________________________



........... Here is a HiREZ..... 2500.....About 1.2 megs.....




http://www.jd3d.com/MS2500x1687FINAL.jpg


_____________________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________________

melkao
05-18-2005, 11:23 PM
Wow thats a great final image....good luck with the second place, because the frist is mine ajajajajaja:twisted:

kmest
05-19-2005, 12:13 AM
hi michael..congradulations ....i love your final image and i think i totaly understand the story....cause it's so simple....
anyway....i hope your success in voting cause you've made so many nice and high detailed textures and models+a nice looking scene (and againe) + a diffrent story ....not like most of the challengers(including me:p :bounce: )who went for the master/Slave ..........best wishes....

jdsb
05-19-2005, 12:18 AM
Bam ...and the final is there:scream::argh:...incredibleness...its looking stunning and i can see the concept...to perceive it or not is like always...at the viewers discretion...oooh me a fanboy... yup yup yup..wagging my tail...for the mastaaaaaaaaaaa:scream::scream:. oh no..dont have a cgtalk award...not an admin..not an organic modeler....so sad....a fanboy i am:D:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:...

Natethor
05-19-2005, 12:24 AM
Whoa!!! I am floored.Really speechless.A stunner of a entry.man good luck,could be a top spot finsh.It's all candy, characters,scene,all of it,just outstanding.:applause: :bounce:

fer3d
05-19-2005, 01:26 AM
Very nice.

Surprising finale.

Congratulations and good luck to you.

Keep in touch.

fer

safe05
05-19-2005, 01:51 AM
Hey Michael, Congrats on finishing up strong and keeping the style consistent. Well done! :thumbsup: Now, get some sleep ;).

KolbyJukes
05-19-2005, 02:01 AM
I've gotta say, I agree with Leigh, I didn't get the master/servant relationship, nor the whole see/speak/hear no evil, if you really wanted to imply that you could've pushed the poses a bit, or maybe made them more prominent in the final composition, up until i read your explanation, I thought they were all saluting. You really shouldn't depend on your written story to explain the picture, it should be self-explanatory.

and concerning your reaction to Leigh...you really need to take crits better imo, remember, this is a professional forum...not everybody is going to like your work - you shouldn't take it so personally.

anyway, good luck with the voting/judging :)

cheers,
-K.

DaddyMack
05-19-2005, 02:07 AM
Come on Leigh make an effort...

it's obvious

the master is Virtuoso,
the servants, all the fanboys replying here...

I am totally shocked that you have trouble seeing this relationship
My spidey sense detects a little post count envy... hmmm... There's always 1 isn't there...
Seriously tho Michael, congrats, thanks for all the edutainment along the way, and remember that your input into this community is highly regarded and valued by many of us on this rock...

LYW:applause: Just call me fanboy...

Via Condios Amigo!

Virtuoso
05-19-2005, 02:13 AM
melkao : Thanks,best to you too.....Thanks for the kind thoughts.....:arteest:


kmest: Nice of you to think so,I apreaciate this......I hope you finish as well,good luck to you reza....:arteest:


jdsb: Nice of you to think so,thanks,and I am grateful for you're support......:arteest:


Natethor: Thankyou as well.....makes a hard but fun time all the sweeter......:arteest:


fer3d: Thankyou fernando.......All the best to you too......:arteest:


safe05: no sleep for me..it's E3 time,and some away time from the PC for a couple days....Thanks for the support safe....Good luck to you too.....:arteest:

Virtuoso
05-19-2005, 02:16 AM
Hi daddymack...... The one and original "Think outside of the box"........I mised you're post in my last replies....... So we got it done,it was fun.i sure hope to see more from you,keep the zesty creations coming.....and when you showcase,PM me, I want to see the new creations of zestiness......All the best to you.......See you soon,take care,and good luck daddy.....:thumbsup:

Rook
05-19-2005, 02:21 AM
I don't understand the connection to the Master and Servant theme. There doesn’t seem to be anything compositionally that would suggest one person is dominant over another. It would help if you would post better wip images in the future. You never posted anything thing in the beginning that suggested your final image would look like this. Part of the charm of Cgtalk challenges is seeing people struggle through their art and how they come to the final result. You unfortunately never even posted a concept sketch, where such issues as composition could be addressed.
Finally it’s a bit dishearting to see someone who was awarded a community choice award, would foster such a hostile environment to those caring enough to provide insight and critiques to your image.

Critiques are not a sign of failure. They are the best tools an artist has to improve himself.

Slav
05-19-2005, 02:29 AM
wha.... this is wicked!

and in complete fiber of the word... both amazing and evil...


muahaha... i LOVE IT!

Virtuoso
05-19-2005, 02:30 AM
You know Rook............ this is a first for you in my thread......What timing.its very clear of what this is about.

I recall in the last challenge you came into my thread only once then too.

After I had done a massive amount of work,you came in with a 1 line message. You stated.... " Sometimes less is more"... And this after all my hard work,that people really enjoyed,large amounts of it....thats what I got from you,thats it nothing else........ i can understand this.....sometimes less is more.......But not all the time,thats a no brainer........ i wanted to comment on that then.but let it go....... I will now...... "Sometimes less is easier"....

Virtuoso
05-19-2005, 02:33 AM
Slav............ Thanks very much...appreaciated,means alot to me.....:thumbsup:

jdsb
05-19-2005, 02:34 AM
i totally disagree with you about virtuoso being hostile.from what i read in the thread,he was infact...bashing somebody else who was trying to be hostile /insulting towards people posting critiques...read this...

Come on Leigh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh
I am sorry, but I have to admit that I really cannot understand how this image relates to the theme in any way. Could you explain the concept? :curious:
Bearing in mind that the idea behind the challenge was to create a strong emotive angle that demonstrated a distinct, defined relationship between the entities in the image, I really cannot fathom what your concept is and how it relates to this theme...
Not trying to knock you, just really curious.




Come on Leigh make an effort...

it's obvious

the master is Virtuoso,
the servants, all the fanboys replying here...

I am totally shocked that you have trouble seeing this relationship
__________________

Virtuoso:

Leandrone: Who are you really? ,,,,,Please dont answer.

You can try and play with me from behind a monitor,means nothing to me,I dont know you,with your 17 replies...and insults in just my threads past and now.....

But you now have clearly slapped all my friends in the face.fans and great artists....I have been honored with there following......So you call everybody in my thread a fanboy.....Who do you think you are!You just insulted every single person in my thread......Great artists......

Stay out of here,you are very obvious.....I know the game that is being played here......I am onto it for sometime,I just never stooped to your level or your crew.Not worth a dignified answer....

You insult everyone here,great artists that I have been honored to have in my thread.....

I ask you to stay out,thats it,fair is fair.


Leigh: I am sorry you have this trouble seeing my theme.I cant imagine why?It is clear in the story,and clear in the picture.........


...................
to me it looks like ,a bunch of peple just trying to put down the artist and his artwork..ofcourse all critiques are helpful and people are entitled to their opinion..but sometimes art is not all about improvement...sometimes it needs to be accepted just the way it is...if possible...and relished/enjoyed just the way it is..

You cannot question an artists workflow...this is just a cg challenge...worth some recongnition and a few thousand dollars in prize money...its not a war..just a challenge..i would probably prefer a paid project coming my way ,forget about the challenge even if i was mid way into my challenge entry...and go for the money:scream:

Maybe i just admire art by its face value...but i like it this way..and this thread is a living example that many other people like it too...

all the best michael

leigh
05-19-2005, 02:42 AM
You know Rook............ this is a first for you in my thread......What timing.its very clear of what this is about.


As a challenge Forum Leader, I feel compelled to step in here.

Michael, one of the most important lessons an artist needs to learn is how to intepret critique and suggestions correctly instead of misconstruing them as personal attacks. I couldn't help but notice that you ignored KWAK's reply on the previous page as well. These people are taking time out of their days to reply to your thread, and I don't see anything in Rook's post that would suggest ulterior motives.

I am not sure if you're aware of this, but in this challenge there is to be no public vote - all entries are to be judged internally by a jury of professionals. This ensures that all participating images are judged strictly according to the challenge theme, which was expressed in the guidelines as this:


First and foremost, submitted images will be judged on the strength of their emotive and story elements, with technical excellence being the second criteria. The depth of feeling and the power of the relationship as portrayed by the image is the primary theme and goal of this challenge, so participating artists must demonstrate a clarity of thought and emotion in their finished images.

Because the theme and the relationships specific to it are of such incredible importance in this particular challenge, I think that peoples comments about the difficulty in reading this theme in your entry were posted with sincere concern.

As someone who helped to put together the instructions and theme for this particular challenge, my own post was very sincere in questioning the story of this image. I honestly have difficulty in relating your story concept to the theme. As KWAK pointed out, it is not really possible to understand the story simply by looking at the image, which is exactly what this challenge is all about. I hope that makes more sense than my previous post.

I hope that this helps you to understand why people, including myself, have posted these. If I had seen your final entry before the cutoff point, I would have posted my comments then. Unfortunately they are of little use now that the challenge is over.

Virtuoso
05-19-2005, 02:56 AM
I have no problem with suggestions and crits....extra sets of eyes.......None what-so ever.....

I have full confideence in my talents I am proud to say.....And except any honest crits and suggestions......anytime.....

25 or so other replies showed a very positive feel for my work.......All seeming to understand without problem....I am happy for this..............

You expressed your opinion....thats fine with me,......Your opinion came from an honest place in your mind.............All have every right to state what they want......now that they did I hope they are satisfied........

Neeno
05-19-2005, 03:02 AM
awesome micheal when i saw the picture i was like "say hello to my little friend" the brute looks awesome.. the other brutes add a lot to the image very cool..very happy of how the image is turning out... the coral type rock is awesome.. if you have time PM me and if you can let me know how you did that.. was it displacement or modeled?? or z brush? .. anyways micheal all the best mate.. looking awesome!! :thumbsup:

Rook
05-19-2005, 03:05 AM
“Less is more” is a concept most artist have trouble dealing with. I often have to repeat that particular mantra when I work. I only posted one comment in your GSO thread, because any honest critiques where met with hostility. I tried to comment on your image without upsetting anyone but still offer a valuable insight.

My primary motive is to contribute to a community that I have a great deal of care for, a community where an honest critique is valued above empty compliments. Whether it was your intention or not, your previous post, could be regarded as the abrasive response to critiques that I described early.



Best of luck.

Virtuoso
05-19-2005, 03:18 AM
Rook...I have not met any comments with hostility here......I was atacked in a firece way last challenge.It was not about crits,it was blatant attacks and major insults,.....i still did not comment even once to the attacks,I knew just what was happening and why.......I won the community award do you recall......I have done all I can to help here,while expand my reel.....I am proud of my actions.....

You have had your say...I stand proud in my actions,and hope you are satisfied with this.And I think that the people that comment in a nice way here would not be happy to hear your comments on there thoughts being empty compliments.......

Anyways.....Good luck to you,I hope you are satisfied......

Virtuoso
05-19-2005, 03:20 AM
neeno...Thanks very much....you have been a great supportive figure here for me,and made things all the brighter......I will PM you...i created these rocks.etc... in a new fresh way....you will find this fun and interesting I think.....I;ll get back to you next week when my time is clear.......Thanks again Neeno,take care,and best of luck to you,,,,,see you next week.....:thumbsup:

Antropus
05-19-2005, 03:33 AM
Hi Virtuoso,

I had no time enough to post in every entry here in this challenge so I'm sorry for the late reply. Man, I didn't see clearly the relation between master and servant(s) neither. Looks like your image lacks of interaction between the characters. The main character is just posed looking at something not clear while the another guys are doing their thing there but the focus in this challenge (IMHO) are the strong emotions between master and servant. How they react/interact with each other. Just my 2 cents.

Good luck anyway.
Kris

oooops... I almost forgot: .......................................... :arteest: .............................................

Virtuoso
05-19-2005, 03:49 AM
Chris........... I am happy you could "Finally" make it into my thread.......What timing.Oh I just noticed that you work with Leigh over at cafeFX in Santa maria......

I hear your comments and thoughts,and will think them over....i am am happy with the outcome and the theme,and so are many others,in the end thats what counts......Thanks for stopping by.....And back at you................. :arteest:

Antropus
05-19-2005, 04:11 AM
Yep. Leigh is great and funny as hell! :)

Man, one thing I learned in these years posting in foruns is that if more than one person tell me that is there something wrong in my image is because my image can really have something wrong and I always try to fix the most part of the issues (with time enough, of course), as I did in the position of the arms of my hot-dog guy, background, mustard in the girl's face etc, taking these crits in consideration. I don't think (and I think you don't think either) that this is some kind of "conspiracy", when everybody decide to post crits for your work. Is just because, as someone posted before, you didn't post any concept showing what you had in mind before. Just now the people are addressing these issues in your image and nobody here is trying to put you down but helping you to improve your work.

I think if a lot of people are talking about the same thing, can mean two things:
a) something need to be fixed in your work and the people are trying to help you;
b) someone is using a lot of different nicknames (but same computer/IP?) just to tell bad things about your work. This option is so silly that I don't think someone will make this in a professional and moderated forum like CGTalk, but is here as a second option anyway...

So, as Kwak told you: take the crits in a good way man. Looks like you are a good guy and interact a lot with another people, posting in every single thread (and is natural to have a huge feedback in this case. I wish a could have time to do the same :sad: ) so, please, don't take crits from another people (that are trying to help you, I repeat) as something personal because (from some) it's not.

Cheers,
Kris

Virtuoso
05-19-2005, 04:21 AM
I take it all in Chris...I know whats up,really I do,it's obvious......Just wont comment on it further.....I take the 3 or 5 crits of people who dont care so much for your work,or have alterior motives.....I listen,I hear them out,and then look at the 70 to 90 that do like or love your work,.....So I like my chances......;) ....I am hip to whats happening here,it's real clear.....Thanks for your time,and opinion,good luck to you........:arteest:

Neeno
05-19-2005, 04:50 AM
No problem micheal your ongoing support in my thread helped me alot and broadened my thoughts... cheers about the coral rock technique you will be PMing me about next week... very kind of you to take out your time.. thanks mate.. see you soon and all the best in the voting process once again..

DaddyMack
05-19-2005, 04:51 AM
Ooooh controversy... How cool... I look back on loads of my work (and actions) and always see ways it could have been improved... Take it on the chin Virtuoso... It's art man;) You know the deal...Some people will get it, or connect with it, even like it, some people just plain wont... I'll bet my left nut that many visitors in my thread didn't 'get' my image, or the work I did on this comp... That's not why I made it my friend... I made it for me... The whole 'imaginary friends who like it too' factor was just a mad bonus! With all due (loads and loads) respect my friend, I (as an unattached observer who barely knows but respects both Leigh, KWAK, and Antropus for fairly solid reasons) think you may be taking this all a little more seriously than it was intended... I think you will see clearer after some zzzzzzs mate, relax, get a few beers or similar under your belt, and take the good with the bad...:beer: You'll be back;)

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye...

Stay cool mate...

Gunilla
05-19-2005, 06:11 AM
Yeah - I think DaddyMack says it really well.

Congrats in finishing up and at the same time manage to be among the most supportive around. It's appreciated by a lot of people. As for you final, I'm taking the risk of using these :bounce::bounce::bounce:
Love your special style end the way you hammer on to create your world...

Your fangirl ;)

Lemog
05-19-2005, 07:09 AM
I wouldn't like to come back in a polemic, but just speaking of this image and of this artist.

The look is always also amazing for me, always apart from the known things.

It's the virtuoso look. The relationship between Master and slaves appears obvious to me, but I know, the game is distorted, because I'm following the story since the beginning.

But the first interesting thing in an image in general, it's that the image is pleasant to look at, and the second thing, it's to see that each person feels different things by discovering it.

This difference exists because we all are different, our tastes are different, our experiments are different, our centers of interests are different too.

But the only thing which doesn't change, it's the incredible style of our friend, and especially his indefectible friendship.

I thus prefer to look at this image as a whole, and to appreciate it with my manner.

Critics are often constructive, but of course, they should be interpreted while giving them in the good context, and especially, that these critics are in agreement with our concept.

It's quite obvious that many images of the current participants can have very different interpretations, it's that which gives us this happiness to be a community, and to divide our opinions, our tastes, and our aspirations.

Best wishes Michael :thumbsup:

3dRaven
05-19-2005, 07:22 AM
Congrats on finishing it allthough I was looking forward to seeing him in his fortress (corel as the background) but it's your image and you decide the final look. Happy you could make it before the final buzzer. Nice details and a good color scheme and great character design.

Best of luck during the judging...hope they see your point of view :)

nemirc
05-19-2005, 07:35 AM
I was also hoping to see the fortress ship thing :bounce:
However I am happy with the final result. Their relationship looks also obvious to me. I believe it's just a matter of "perspective" and I have no complains about it at all.

Good luck pal! :deal:

Gregwid
05-19-2005, 07:41 AM
Awesome stuff partner.A unique style and incredible scene,love the Brute and his guys.I can see the relationship easily, without hesitation.Real creative,excellent textures and designs,top flight all the way.Podium finish partner.Good luck.:buttrock:

morgan
05-19-2005, 07:47 AM
Looks like: Salvador Dali vs. Terminator .

Great job. I like the details and colors and models ... and..and

ace4016
05-19-2005, 08:11 AM
Congrats on your finish. Great characters and enviroment. I hope to see you in the next challenge, but promise us you will post more wip images. Good luck and best wishes.

Versiden
05-19-2005, 08:14 AM
hey there Michael..

things have been a bit crazy with the M&S deadline.. sorry I have not really been able to comment until now.

Nobody is bashing your thread down, they are just offering their sincere comments.. the best thing about these challenges is that it is open forum and constructive critism is your best weapon to improve. I am often frustrated with spam comments, with no useful crits.. but I think it's unavoidable since I think the idea of a Community Award encourages mass posting.

I still have the same concerns about the environment color palette not providing enough of a contrast to distuingish the characters. When you posted your Main character comp'd into the background a few days ago, you said it was temporary.. so I assumed alot of things were temporary especially the Pose, so I reserved comment. Now viewing it in it's entirety, it just doesn't work.

Perhaps a tighter crop for the characters, and maybe have the Master standing over the servants with his head held high, and arms crossed would better bring out superior relationshop here.

Don't take it personally, critism good or bad will help u improve alot. You have great skills and it's developing. Your crits on my thread on my foot issue helped alot, and I definately benefitted from that.

lamarvisions
05-19-2005, 08:51 AM
Hey,this turned out like a dream.Great work in everyway.Top 3 for me,and good luck,you really showed a detailed and masterful piece.:thumbsup:

Dutchman
05-19-2005, 09:06 AM
Wow Michael! :thumbsup: :eek: :bounce: Really nice rendered / composited, and the atmosphere looks awesome! Really amazing! :thumbsup: That fluffy-stuff looks great, and the characters do emit a nice cartoony look! :)

Good luck on the voting, my friend! :twisted: :) ,
Gijs

jddog
05-19-2005, 10:08 AM
:thumbsup: your kindness, your support on my thread was so appreciated...

your work here is simply amazing, bravo :applause:
jdd

Virtuoso
05-19-2005, 10:25 AM
Neeno..........DaddyMack....Gunilla.........Lemog......3dRaven.........nemirc.......Gregwid
morgan.....ace4016.....Versiden..... lamarvisions.....Dutchman....jddog


Thankyou all for the very nice comments and support,the real nice interest you had in my art,and taking the time to say so........I greatly appreaciate this,and am always grateful.......I wish you all luck here and in all you're future projects......Thanks again very much.....:)

Virtuoso
05-19-2005, 10:30 AM
http://forum.kaistavginski.de/files/master___servant_1750_x_1181_final.jpg






1750 higher rez shot .....so you dont have to scroll back a few pages for it.......and the story below it.......



____________________________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________________________


See no Evil.....Hear no Evil....Speak no Evil......


Master Brute S.Maximus is one of the commanders of a clan within the Scalawag Empire in the World of L'eternel............... Together with his Rudes,called appropriately Brute's Rudes,he follows and lives to the letter,the Scalawag credo................The Rudes are a rugged,rough and tough bunch who fight,play and work very hard in spite of their size which is half that of a normal man...................... Their miniscule size seems even more dwarfed

next to the enormous size and bulk of Master Brute S.Maximus................
They are extremely loyal servants and devoted believers to Brute S.Maximus pratically to the point of worship..............They would defy death standing as a Rude shield in front of there Master.Of course,they also join him in all his battles whether they are for sports or for a great cause.They also take part eagerly in treasure hunts,skirt-chasing and Rum swigging!.......

Master Brute S Maximus has one main rule to be obeyed at all cost by his servants.It is a three-pronged rule stating: See no Evil......hear no Evil.... Speak no Evil..........

Brute is not an evil being but...............Sometimes when it is least expected some evil creeps into the very best.............It is those rare occasions that he does not want his faithful servants to see........hear......and most important speak about! If they would disobey, they would pay with their life.............Not that this had ever been necessary because the Rudes followed the three rules to the letter................not out of fear but out of total faithfulness............

..... I am depicting the Rudes gesturing in a physical way the symbolic value of Brutes rules.... This is possibly the most important law in a Master & servant relationship......

mosconariz
05-19-2005, 10:54 AM
wooow, great image!!!

yeah... that's my comment, my brain is not workig much today... I'll coment you something decent after sleaping a little bit. you rock :thumbsup:

alexfalchi
05-19-2005, 11:04 AM
Hey Michael my friend...really congrats for your final image...really beutifull my good friend...I whish you best luck my friend...you strong and kind guy...
Hey Michael have best fun and best luck for all...you have make very nice challange...
I really hope see you in the next challange Michael...
Michael tnx for all your support in this challange....
best luck to you!!

ciao Michale buona fortuna!!

Alex.

artemesia66
05-19-2005, 01:29 PM
Congrats on finishing, Michael. And thanks for all your encouragement throughout the challenge. A couple of C+Cs for next time--since it's all over now: For the record (since there seems to be some angst on your thread), I love your image, I love how every challenge, you continue to build up this fantasy universe and the images all relate, and I love your funky characters. For this challenge, though, while I understand the concept of the pic and the way it relates to the theme, IMHO the power relationship between the master and his servants could have been expressed more strongly visually, using scale or position in the image, interaction btwn the characters, etc. Second, I love the Dali-esque landscape--lava rocks with fur--how cool is that? But in such a stongly lit environment, your characters don't cast shadows, and it makes them look a bit pasted into their environment. Anyway, just my 2c... It's been fun, see you next time. :)

alex.h.
05-19-2005, 01:45 PM
great work mate, i like your style and thanks for all great support along this challenge and ofcourse :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: and another :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

cjewell
05-19-2005, 02:15 PM
Very unique style and executed well...congrats. Great modeling, texturing and lighting! I really like the environment...stunning and surreal..cool. It's been fun and best of luck...see you next comp!!!


-"Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act, the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything. " - George Lois

AIR
05-19-2005, 02:50 PM
Ooooh controversy... How cool... I look back on loads of my work (and actions) and always see ways it could have been improved... Take it on the chin Virtuoso... It's art man You know the deal...Some people will get it, or connect with it, even like it, some people just plain wont... I'll bet my left nut that many visitors in my thread didn't 'get' my image, or the work I did on this comp... That's not why I made it my friend... I made it for me... The whole 'imaginary friends who like it too' factor was just a mad bonus! With all due (loads and loads) respect my friend, I (as an unattached observer who barely knows but respects both Leigh, KWAK, and Antropus for fairly solid reasons) think you may be taking this all a little more seriously than it was intended... I think you will see clearer after some zzzzzzs mate, relax, get a few beers or similar under your belt, and take the good with the bad... You'll be back
Im just qoting DADDY.I feel kinda same way about this.
As for the image.I also hoped for the fortress.Your final is far from my ideas it would be.
Dont think is under expectations,I wouldnt say that,just had different idea of it.
It's a challenge.Competitions can be tough.Competetors and audience can hit under whaist.
GOOD LUCK VIRTUOSO,THX for giving me support,made the diference for me.POZDRAV :thumbsup:

gpepper
05-19-2005, 03:07 PM
Great !

Amazing work and still your great Style !
Another award ?

theuni
05-19-2005, 04:00 PM
Congratulation Michael :thumbsup:

I almost thought you wouldn`t made it to the deadline :) Just joking :D Really fantastic image you created there. I especially still like the environment a lot. Looks like a nice place to live :) Now that I see the "big" picture I realized your concept behind the original posted 3 monks... great idea.

I really enjoy taking place in contest where I do meet such nice & helpful guys like you...

see you soon...

dmonk
05-19-2005, 04:26 PM
Hey Virtuoso,

Congrats on finishing up!

I love the environment, but I wish you would have pushed the poses a little further. I prefer the servant characters to the master, they just seem to have a bit more personality. I think there should be somethingas far as color or light to make the characters stand out from the background.

I must admit this is the first time I'm posting in this thread, only because I didn't have a clear idea of where you were going with the final image and you seemed to be getting swamped with replies everyday and I didn't really have any insight on how to make your image better.

I would not take the few critiques too personally. I thought they were pretty constructive. Without the written explanation the idea behind the image would not have been as clear as to me just by looking.

The reason I did not reply sooner, again, is because I had had no idea what the final comp would look like. Which is what I think the case is for a lot of people who are just now throwing in thier opinion.

At the end of the day, it's your work. Your the only one that has to be happy with it.:D

Congrats and good luck with the judges.

Martinez3d
05-19-2005, 05:12 PM
Virtuoso,

You done an absolutely amazing final image mate.:thumbsup: All the details on the master, the servants and the environment are outstanding! As some others already wroten here, i just miss the shadows of the characters, but, other than that i think your work just perfect! Congratulation my friend!:applause: Hope to see you again in the next challenge! (and sooner also, took to long to see your post in this one :sad: )
Good luck!
Rafael Martinez

vampeta
05-19-2005, 05:39 PM
Hi Michael,

Great work! Incredible level of detail and awesome texturework.
Congratulatiions on your Masterpiece http://www.kira-network.com/pics/vader.gif
May the force be with you!!
Alex

Adriano-Zanetti
05-19-2005, 06:00 PM
Congrats with your final picture man, so cool, so different, really like your style! once again, great light, such a good feelin in your picture.

Thanks again for your kind post on my thread!

pe@ce

Adriano

MDN67
05-19-2005, 06:18 PM
hey mickael, your pic is again a great pic, always in your unique style good work mate, but i don't see your final image post, i hope is not a problem for the vote

smaddl
05-19-2005, 07:02 PM
fantastic final Michael :applause: :applause: :applause: beautiful, sweet and very funny scene. it's been pleasure meeting you. you are great artist and person. always find the time and the right supporting words to so many participants. thank you very much. wish you all the best and good luck with your terrific entry.

essencedesign
05-19-2005, 07:10 PM
Definatly very unique characters true to your style...bright and vibrant....I would have liked to see them in a bit more of a close up in the composition to give the image a bit more depth...good luck though mate ..and I will see you in the next challenge for sure.. :)

Steveyola
05-19-2005, 07:46 PM
Mike,you came up aces Bro.brilliant environment,just brilliant.The hear no evil theme is spot on for this theme,great idea.The characters are totally original and have butt loads of personality.Great skin,metal and leather textures,love the fur element,certanly one of the top runners,excellent job Bro,GL.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

6foot5
05-19-2005, 08:54 PM
Well done on your entry, and thank you very much for all the encouragement, see you next time!



Amin

overcontrast
05-19-2005, 09:22 PM
hey wassup man... ur final image looks like made by u.... u got style and it shows... but i think u should have worked on the lighting a bit more, not that is bad... but could be better... o well, congratulations on finishing this great image... keep up the good works man... and good lcuk

Jackmars
05-19-2005, 10:48 PM
Whoa Michael.You came through incredibly well.From theme, love there gestures,to modeling and textures.Love the setting.Beautiful,real surreal,super look.Characters are fun and done in top rate form.I think you got one of the elite pieces here,lots of luck to you,until next time.:applause:

superhooman
05-19-2005, 11:05 PM
Check your private messages :D

Nekura
05-19-2005, 11:20 PM
Congrats Michael! You reached a fantastic end! :applause: The image really turned out beautifully.. great job!

I have a couple things more to say however.. when you first posted Brute standing on the coral, you mentioned that Brute's pose was not final and would probably be changing (or something like that). I figured that you were going to change the pose, so I didn't comment on it, but now I see the final and his pose looks basically the same as I remember it. It's not bad mind you.. I was just hoping that you were going to have him standing different somehow.. perhaps something a little more animated (if you know what I mean). I love the pose of the Rudes though, the way the middle guy uses his hands to cover the mouth and eyes of the others, and how they cover his ears.. it looks very cool (I think I've seen the traditional monkeys posed like that before.. but it's my favorite method of portraying the hear-see-speak-no evil idea).. as opposed to each one covering his own face/head.

I don't feel that I can really comment on whether or not I get the Master-Servant relationship, because I read the story and concept back when you started.. so I knew all along how it would turn out (I don't have a problem seeing the relationship). Therefor, I don't feel that I can forget the story and look at the image unbiased.

All in all you've done a great job.. pat yourself on the back and treat yourself to a cold one! :beer:

I hope to see you here at the next challenge.. Best of luck in the judging!

SuperXCM
05-19-2005, 11:33 PM
Hi Michael,

excellent finale image, original render for sure... I like this amazing textures.. i'm agree with Nekura for the pose, but it's look cool anyway. :cool:

Good work you've done! :arteest:

Good luck my friend!!

See you, i hope soon.... :beer:


PS: Sorry for my poor participation at this challenge. But you know why.
Good luck again my friend!! :thumbsup:

dragondragon
05-20-2005, 12:51 AM
Hi Michael. Man, I read through some of the threads up here. Wow, some folks take this into a different dimension. Holy smoke. I see it as what it is, ART. I for one Michael loved the way this piece turned out. Man, it's so cool. I like how bright and sunny everything looks. And of course, I Have already commented on your awsome textures. Love em. I hope to see more from you Michael. And just a reminder to all of us, art is in the eye of the beholder. Art is not always about who puts twenty tons of detail into a piece, or who can come the closests to making an image exactly like a photograph (me personaly, I would just take the photo). But, how an artist express him/her self. As long as one person likes it, you have done your job (Rembrandt may have argued how simple Piccasso's works were-smile). For me, this has been extremely fun. And even if I don't win anything, I have a new piece for my portfolio and, have made some new fantastic friends up here, and just became a member of one of the coolest sites ever. Cheers everyone, and best of luck to every one of you.
:thumbsup:

Dragon, out.

Master and Servant:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=222625

Antropus
05-20-2005, 01:24 AM
I know whats up,really I do,it's obvious......I am hip to whats happening here,it's real clear

No man, I think you don't know what's up but I can tell you that I'm aware of ALL the facts in this challenge. It's obvious, isn't it?
......................... :arteest: ............................

Kris

Kanga
05-20-2005, 02:38 AM
Congratulations on a job well done,.... Phew now sit back and sink a cold one:beer:.

tiburonsita
05-20-2005, 03:38 AM
Wow! I decided to look through some threads of those who have posted on a buddy of mine's challenge and I find this one. Sparked my interest.

As artists, we can be stubborn sometimes and insist on a certain thing. But, just saying that it's "art" and "I'm doing it for me" is so cliche that it seems more like an excuse not to change something. Anyway, that's your perogotive.

That said, I've noticed something really strange. Probably cause I'm a woman and notice these details :), most, IF NOT ALL, the posts that are EXTREMELLY, I'd say, over-the-edge complimentary have something in common. Have you noticed? None of your huge fans like to use a space after a punctuation mark... like you. Hummm. That, to me, is taking the title "fanboy" to a whole new level.

Check it out for yourself within your thread:
lamarvisions
Onsloh
Natethor
Karlstok
Steveyola
Vilpep

Well, it's been fun. Good luck to you.

Heber
05-20-2005, 07:55 AM
listen to the guys who have the most experience, they can usually point out things that need further attention , i think you have been blinded to some point by all the guys that tell you how good it is, if you want to suceed and better yourself as an artist...LEARN how to handle critiques, i mean that in the nicest way btw, i think you work hard and its obvious you are proud of your accomplishments keep it up. :)

aliasali
05-20-2005, 09:52 AM
CONGRATULATIONS,Virtouso! co0ol joob...:thumbsup:

InTerceptoV
05-20-2005, 10:04 AM
The enironment is very original. I like the rocks and the shapes of it. The characters are the right ones for that world. ;) Well good luck, you have beautifull image....

LittleGranny
05-20-2005, 10:34 AM
First, congrats for "finishing" your piece. Suits very well for your imaginary world what you have built in several challenges.

...

I'm sorry but I can't pass this work without mentioning some issues that bothers me. They are purely my opinions. Take them as a constructive crits if you wish.


Lighting: Currently it's very distracting really. Now it feels like there are several light sources coming from all the wrong directions. Makes your characters float a bit.

Materials: Looks pretty much the same you use for all your work. Leather, chrome, metal. Well... we all have our fetishes.

Overall image : Hard to look at. A bit too over exposed. Like someone already mentioned, less is more. If you have billions of ideas/tricks/tools it does not mean you should use all of them. I would get rid of the Tina Turners.

That's about it.


Good luck bro!

JHarford
05-20-2005, 10:39 AM
fab work bro`!

Versiden
05-20-2005, 11:27 AM
I have a couple things more to say however.. when you first posted Brute standing on the coral, you mentioned that Brute's pose was not final and would probably be changing (or something like that). I figured that you were going to change the pose, so I didn't comment on it, but now I see the final and his pose looks basically the same as I remember it. It's not bad mind you.. I was just hoping that you were going to have him standing different somehow.. perhaps something a little more animated (if you know what I mean).

my thoughts exacty as I posted earlier.. there's alot to be improved on Michael.. and my issues that I brought up I feel wasn't heard properly with your generic "thanks" reply

spawk
05-20-2005, 01:53 PM
Wow! I decided to look through some threads of those who have posted on a buddy of mine's challenge and I find this one. Sparked my interest.

As artists, we can be stubborn sometimes and insist on a certain thing. But, just saying that it's "art" and "I'm doing it for me" is so cliche that it seems more like an excuse not to change something. Anyway, that's your perogotive.

That said, I've noticed something really strange. Probably cause I'm a woman and notice these details :), most, IF NOT ALL, the posts that are EXTREMELLY, I'd say, over-the-edge complimentary have something in common. Have you noticed? None of your huge fans like to use a space after a punctuation mark... like you. Hummm. That, to me, is taking the title "fanboy" to a whole new level.

Check it out for yourself within your thread:
lamarvisions
Onsloh
Natethor
Karlstok
Steveyola
Vilpep

Well, it's been fun. Good luck to you.

I agree with you. Most of time, "a little" too much ;). Even Enayla in 2D contest doesn't have such crits. LOL

Neeno
05-20-2005, 02:17 PM
dont people like to bitch..its funny how people can just bitch on some ones thread so much and for whoever it was that said "fanboys" type like micheal here i go... and again... and again... and again... and again... just to annoy the crap out of you.. for all people who like to brag on non stop about crap and forgetting the time and effort and the whole reason we are here creating art ... Honestly!! i think everyone just need to read the 4 points before they post here again..


Be courteous and polite. Show respect to the opinions and feelings of others. Use of the forums is a privilege, not a right.

Engage your brain before your mouth. You are responsible for your own words and any harm they may cause.
Don't dilute the forums with irrelevant and unnecessary fluff. CGTalk is a professional, moderated forum. It's a place to talk about all things related to computer graphics.
Critiques and responses to images are to be constructive and related to improving the quality of the artwork.
sheezus its like the guy made a tiny thing maybe he was wrong and people want to chew him up.. i think its a matter of jealousy.. but once again thats my suggestion and no im not a fanboy but micheal is one of the only people with cg experience at his level who really puts in the time and effort to crit and comment on people who are trying to achieve and strive to reach their goals.. i'd like half the people here that smack harsh words on everyone not jsut for micheal to actually have a heart when you crit and comment ... your not supposed to bring the person down but helkp them understand.... thats all i have to say..

Versiden
05-20-2005, 02:33 PM
don't get me wrong here, and if I haven't iterated it enough - you're a talented artist.

But if I see someone with obvious POTENTIAL and RAW TALENT, then I'm going to push you and crit on areas that I think can be improved.

art is highly controversial.. and I think you've really hit the nail on the head with this.. hehe

AIR
05-20-2005, 02:46 PM
Hi people.I was looking at this,whatever you could call it,a crisis perhaps.
I'l quote.
1_Be courteous and polite. Show respect to the opinions and feelings of others. Use of the forums is a privilege, not a right.
As I went trough posts and comments of guys here,I myself did not noticed any out of line reply to Michael's work.Any hostility.Just What I belive to be honest opinion,and straight given.And directnes and honesty could be offensive.I think its a quality,to say to other honest opinion even if it was not positiv.I myself rather hear that in the face,and not to hear spiting behind my back.
2_Engage your brain before your mouth. You are responsible for your own words and any harm they may cause.
There is probabaly more of this going arround here.
3_Don't dilute the forums with irrelevant and unnecessary fluff. CGTalk is a professional, moderated forum. It's a place to talk about all things related to computer graphics.
This has happened too.I think all of us,someone more someone less,have once diluted CG talk with our own 2 cents of fluff.My opinion.
4_Critiques and responses to images are to be constructive and related to improving the quality of the artwork.
I dont know if giving opinion that image could be better is not related to improving
the quality of the art.
I have came across this in my thread to.People gave me advices,some of them I didn't wanted to hear,but as Antropus said once earlier,If few guys say something is wrong,then it defenetly is.
And especcialy 3D guru's like one mentioned above.
I defenetly dont want this reply to be taken ofensivly.
There wouldnt be a forum's of any kind if you couldnt discuss about things.
My english is not as fluid as I'd like it to be,so any contradiction is unintended.
I really think nobody,atlees' 99 % of guys here dont want to degrade Virtuoso.
And Michael,Just want to thank you one more time for being supportive to me.
I clame that my piece wouldnt look the same without this interaction to other contestants.
GOOD LUCK M.M.
Piece :wavey:

Bulldog
05-20-2005, 05:42 PM
Neeno..........DaddyMack....Gunilla.........Lemog......3dRaven.........nemirc.......Gregwid
morgan.....ace4016.....Versiden..... lamarvisions.....Dutchman....jddog


Thankyou all for the very nice comments and support,the real nice interest you had in my art,and taking the time to say so........I greatly appreaciate this,and am always grateful.......I wish you all luck here and in all you're future projects......Thanks again very much.....:)

Agent smith: "I love you man"

Agent Smith 2: "I love you too man"

Agent Smith 3: "You guys both rock so much"

Agent Smith 4: "Dude you guys are THE BEST , DAMN!"

Agent Smith 5: "I dunno about you guys but I LOVE YOU GUYS , you guys are the best , such winning personalities too!"

Agent Smith 6: "I Think you guys are the BEST!"

.

.

.

.

Neeno
05-20-2005, 06:25 PM
jealousy is a curse. i think a few forums leaders need to step in here.. this is ridiculous. i've never seen more disrespect in such a respectful community in my entire life. hes thanking some a group of people what on earth is he doing wrong? just give some one a reason to say something bad and they will.. bull dog that was better left unsaid mate.

superhooman
05-20-2005, 06:25 PM
<removed by administrator>

jdsb
05-20-2005, 06:26 PM
...how horribly inconsiderate and disrespectful can one get...for what? , i still havent understood..

still, all the best michael

leigh
05-20-2005, 06:30 PM
Hey, please cut this out people. If you have a problem, please take it up privately.

Neeno
05-20-2005, 06:30 PM
the thing i find funny is people are calling everyone who compliments MM on his work a fanboy or all teh same person or etc.(watever) ... everyone though that is causing controversay over this is acting the same so really who are teh sheep here?? think about it..

OH wow a forum Leader steps in...finally.. lets hope it works girl..

Adriano-Zanetti
05-20-2005, 06:38 PM
Hey Micheal, I just read some more posts in your threads. Now I'm done with my own entry I got a bit more time to congratulate everyone for all this hard work we all did to get the thing done and well done.

I just wanted to say about those issues that seem to have come up from I don't know where... just bend with the wind, don't take it too personally, there are always haters and having the most viewed thread of the challenge (with that sick amount... over 100, 000... it's crazy man) is always gonna bring them around. Whatever they say, whatever they think, there's always something good to get out of it, their motives is of very poor interrest for now, just take the extra challenge to have "them" congratulate you on your work next time...and smile at it.

For the rest, I have to react on this... "less is more"... s...w that... I mentionned it once in an other thread, it's the kinda comments that gets us to rate pictures containing a bunch of duplicated eggs/spheres and people daring calling it art. I have to agree with you in here... very often... less is just plain freakin easier. At the moment of commenting, I will show more admiration to the one artist who I can see worked hard and spent time on his picture than to the one who I see had the thing done in a fart-time, and that even though I wouldn't even like or understand both pictures. I respect hard work and commitment, this what 3d art is about, nowhere fast and easy.

I can feel the work in your picture, I happen to even like the style, I was impressed by the great lighting and originality of the design of your environment. Sure I could find crits to do as well, but as I was busy working on my own thing and somehow always in a rush when posting comments, I restricted myself to only post positive energy or "applause" just as a mark of respect and support, which is what haters would call "empty comments" I guess.
I sure agree with the positive effect crits can have on an artist's work, but there's a way and proper time to deliver them to somone who's working hard at the moment, and they better be very constructive and justified... and delivered by the right person... and that statement made, it is not arrogance or anything like that, but it hardly that I will take seriously the one tellin me my nose is too fat when his own is about 10 times bigger.... it's just common sense to me rather than thinking to highly of myself. I will not let uncaring people affect my mental and create doubts at a moment where all I need is positive enrgy to go on. As artists we are vulnerable on that level, let's not pretend one doesn't know it hurts when he posts the kinda negative shit I'm sad to have found in some replies of your posts.

let's keep sharing the good stuff in here and as I like to keep it mentionned in my signature ,don't hear the noise around you, in the end only listen to what you have inside you... as artists this is all we have to create something out of nothing, hold on to it. Your art is indeed unique, you can always be proud of it. So even when someday I can say the same about my own... I'm not too sure I will allow myself to lecture you the way some tried to do.
I sure would have liked to see more updates to... but I know how it goes... it is very time consuming and some of us don't like to share unfinished content, my dad wouldn't let people around in his workshop til the paintings would be done...I respect that. Sharing WIP is encouraged, but not required! let's not forget about it. You did your poart keeping your thread and this part of the site alive, and even gathered people around you, I myself got to meet others through your thread, I think it is a fair contribution enough, and I will not judge you for not posting more wip pictures.

And as for us all being mentionned as Fanboys... put any name on us, that won't keep us from cheering for each others, I got good energy back myself from getting in touch with you all in here, I see the influence it has on my motivation and my work, that's all that matters, if I can give a lil back even to those who don't need it, I'm glad to do it. so the hell with that, I'm a fanboy, to your work, to Zukov's, Rolhion's and so many others I apologize for not mentionning here, people I can look up to the excellence of their work, excellence I'm not jalous of at all, but surely want to make my own someday too.

Anyway, you got my point, best of luck for the judging, result will sure, once again, give you the credits you deserve man.

pe@ce

Adriano

smaddl
05-20-2005, 07:36 PM
i am a bit shocked of what is happening here. i still don't get it. Adriano_Zanetti saying important things about the way and time to critics. at the stage i'm now in 3d i admire your achievements and i'm sure i still will in the future. i also feel lucky meeting you here. seeing how supportive and encouraging to so many participants you are. you made me and i'm sure others very happy and calm when i find your replies. as i said before i found you have great quality as an artist and a person. you are very talanted and creative, generous, thoughtful and unique. hope those bad replies won't get into you. you'v done an excellent work. lot of good luck!!

Ducklips
05-20-2005, 08:10 PM
First I would like to congratulate you on a job well done.

Second, i am writing this because I heard some people were giving you some trouble. You worked your ass off on this and you succeeded. You've done what many did not do. Ignore the ignorance of others. You've got good skills all around including that of leadership and communication. You know how to boost the energy of others and how to give advice without hurting any feelings or doing what others are doing on this post.

I think the lighting is vibrant and wonderful. Besides, it is of an alien planet, how can others disrespect the world that you created? It is one thing to give some critique, but adolecent rudeness has no place in a forum that is aimed to be a bit more prefessional.

Anyway, don't be saddened or harmed by the weakness of others. Instead be thankful for the great gift that you have. If you gave in to others and said childish things back then you would only lower yourself to their level, and I know you would not do that.

To whom much is given, much will be expected. You've been given a great gift, and you're doing damn well with it.

Keep up the good work.

dragondragon
05-20-2005, 09:00 PM
Herber points out: listen to the guys who have the most experience, they can usually point out things that need further attention , i think you have been blinded to some point by all the guys that tell you how good it is, if you want to suceed and better yourself as an artist...LEARN how to handle critiques.
For one, folks such as myself and others (I guess according to you, Herber, we are the blind), we DO have tons of experience (not easy to become a military artist, and working with companies such as Marvel Comics group, Image Comics, Hasbro to name a few I KNOW I am not inexperienced-as are others). To come up here and state "Listen to the guys who have the most experience.." is a pretty self centered statement. Herber, has experience not taught you how not to be so arrogant? You can come up here and be a fantastic artist, but that does not give you the right to put other people down (as you have just done). In the future, I would more careful with my choice of words and expressions. However, I will agree, that if someone gives CONSTRUCTIVE critiques, then that person or persons should not be jumped on for doing so and an apology would be in place. I will admit I have not read all the threads up here, so I do not know exactly what exchange went on. But I will say, we need to ALL at all times remain as professional as we can. Cheers, and may life bring EVERYONE of you the best it has to offer.
Dragon, out.

Maxter
05-20-2005, 09:36 PM
Congratulations Michael!!! :applause: Excellent final image.. I really enjoyed it:bounce:
See you nex time!!:beer:

dragondragon
05-20-2005, 10:38 PM
I ment "...would BE more careful..." Hey, I can have one, you misspelled 'succeed'. Now, where the heck did I leave my box of crayons?

bealobo
05-21-2005, 12:29 PM
Hey Michael!

after all the pieces now I see the whole, it´s fantastic and the concept is readable, I like it a lot!
congratulations!!!

good luck!

Antropus
05-21-2005, 06:35 PM
I find some posts here a little too over and I can't really understand how this thread turned this way just because of some people (trying to understand the idea) posted HONEST comments. I got some messages since yesterday with VERY serious content about all this thing. Also, some posts here like the one from tiburonsita made me think about if these coincidences are true or not. As moderator (yes, MORE than a participant of this challenge, believe me) I decided to check these names and I found some information that I really need explanations from you Virtuoso. Please send me a PM/email if you don't wanna talk about this here (ASAP).

cut here -------------->

I also want to tell you guys that I'm participating in this challenge to improve my skills, try different styles and have fun, not to "put someone down" because I'm also a challenger. I don't need to win to prove something. My reputation speaks for itself, being honest in all my efforts, being administrator a CG community in Brazil and sharing knowledge for over 3 years through about 13 tutorials available for free in my website. I'll not admit in ANY way, ANY kind of insinuation neither someone sending me a message calling my previous post "attack" (???) to Virtuoso. I already won a challenge (before to be a moderator, if you remember) and I can tell you right now that if someday I need to cheat to win a challenge like this (in the biggest CG community in the whole world, in front of 170.000 users) I'll leave this industry IN THE SAME DAY and I’ll try sell hot-dogs to live. Believe me, I'm trying to do my part as moderator and protect ALL the another participants in this challenge. If you do not understand what's going on, please don't try to guess because just Virtuoso can explain the matter of the facts.

All I'm talking here reflects my personal opinion and I will answer for everything I said. My opinion in NO WAY reflects CGTalk administrators' opinion and I'm the only responsible for everything I say/said. I just replied because I don't like misunderstandings and the thing I care the most is my integrity.

This is my last post in this thread. I'm still available to discuss the facts with you Virtuoso. Contact me at any time.

Thanks,
Kris

alex.h.
05-21-2005, 09:14 PM
just wont to say, i love your cartoon surealistic style, keep going mate and i wait to see some more sone, have a great evening and :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

DaVee
05-21-2005, 11:08 PM
Micheal Madic 120,307 views and more... WORLD RECORD of views ! :applause::applause: .

Micheal I think you stick all of us on the ground. Hehe !

David.

jdsb
05-21-2005, 11:25 PM
ogh ghod,120 ,000 views and counting..., i am choking :scream::scream::scream::scream::):)

Lunatique
05-22-2005, 01:30 AM
I say this not as a Forum Leader, but as a fellow CG artist and a human being. I'll take responsibility for what I say here, and what I say does not reflect cgtalk and its admins:

<Forum Leader mode off>

Judgement day is coming. Liars and cheats will be exposed for what they are, and people will know the truth. Come clean now or be forever remembered in a similar way as Dale Williams. Integrity as a human being comes before anything else. No amount of talent or fame will save you if you fall so far from grace.

</Forum Leader mode off>

jdsb
05-22-2005, 02:23 AM
i wonder what this is all about,u can talk to me michael if and when you want to:shrug::argh::surprised

Virtuoso
05-22-2005, 02:39 AM
You are talking of integrity.I am proud of my integrity.

You have just condemened me with your statement.I believe you could have PM'ed me and had the total facts before you came in here as you have.That would have been the courteous and ethical thing to do.Instead of the Old fashioned witch hunt.

You want me to come clean,I dont have to come clean,because I am clean.

As for these suggestions and accusations they are totally false.

I have contacted Antropus (Chris).And I have told him as well as I could how innocent I am of these accusations.I have no way to explain or prove my situation,I did my best in trying to do so when talking with Chris.


I can only say beyond this point,that there has been no trickery,only many fans and hard work.



JD: I will get back to you friend.

Lunatique
05-22-2005, 02:54 AM
It's not about your challenge entry. It's about the same IP address used by all the different fanboy posts in your thread. How can they all be from different countries and companies, but have the same IP address? Want to explain that?

Kanga
05-22-2005, 03:53 AM
Also take into account that Dimitris and Michael were very active in their support and encouragement of other contestants during this comp. They were conspicuous in that respect. I think I got about 3 or 4 comments from each of them and I consider that alot. While roaming the threads for other contestants I noticed they were just as active in other threads. That takes quite a bit of time and effort. This also adds to the enjoyment of the competition as well as the super theme.

Lunatique
05-22-2005, 04:30 AM
His community participation and and challenge entry are not what's being questioned.

Virtuoso
05-22-2005, 04:46 AM
As far as I am concerned you "ARE" speaking in behalf of CGTALK> When you come into my thread in a public Forum,and as a Moderator,you are representing CGtalk.You could have done this in a PM as yourself.I am documenting anything said here now and beyond because this is truly "Defamation of character".I am taking this seriously,very seriously.

By the way,How dare you Lunatique call Cgtalk members here "Fanboys",you should know better than that.And represent this place in a better manner.


I have no ideas where you have gotten your facts,what info you have been given,and by whom.As for IP address,I have no idea of the people you are talking of,if you are saying that they have the same service provider this internet service covers the entire USA and Canada,and even if I were to move myself overseas I could still keep my current email address over my local service provider where it would be.I have looked into some of these people,they have gone to other threads as well,not just mine.I have no idea of just who they are,I figure they are fans,I dont know what else to say on this.I have no idea of just who is the one or ones that have started these false accusations.As far as I know someone else could have set this all up,or created this problem for God knows what reason.

I cannot answer questions to problems I cannot explain or solve.If you think logically why in the World would I ever stoop to something like this trickery.I have enough of a following.I am not into this for a following to begin with.

I have said this as best I can to Chris,and here to some degree.....I can keep going in circles about it,or until I turn blue.

I am totally innocent of what I am being accused of.I cannot say anything more beyond this.There is some kind of set up,some vindictive person or persons, and I am the victim.

Shame on you on for being so quick to judge and as a representative of CGTALK,and foregoing a PM before you knew all the exact facts and truths.This is being documented!

I am not taking part of this witch hunt any longer.Of which I am being branded the witch.This can turn into a circus,and I have no intentions of being in the middle of the bon-fire.I will document all that is said and if need be take further steps.

People will think what they will,or want,they will doubt as well.But the damage has been done to me.It's very sad that,where a snail has crawled across my path,some slime is alway's left behind.

Lunatique
05-22-2005, 05:11 AM
If I have mistakenly wronged you, then I'll apologize. But it's up to you to prove that you are innocent. You acting enraged and appalled in itself isn't proof. It's natural for people to act insulted when accused of something, regardless if they are guilty or not.

Fanboy is not a derogatory term. I'm a fanboy of quite a few things, including various people as well.

I am solely responsible for my posting in this thread. I could've opened up another acocunt and used a different alias to do it, but that's not my style, so I posted as myself.

Yes, Forum Leaders are supposed to lead by example and be positive influence and encourage people. That's what I try to do in my everyday interactions here at cgtalk. This particular case is a unique situation where I felt compelled to say something.

Like I said, if you are innocent, I'll publically apologize and withdraw everything I've said.

And to everyone that's reading this thread--he is not guilty until proven so, and vice versa. Don't automatically assume either party is right or wrong.

Virtuoso
05-22-2005, 05:40 AM
I dont know what it is like in China or most other places in the World....... But here in the U.S.A. you are innocent until proven quilty!

I do not have to prove my innocence.You CGTALK representative Lunatique have to prove me quilty.You have come in here and condemened me on your own.Hiding,saying that you are not a representative of Cgtalk,when in fact you are a mod of this site.

I am innocent,I know for a fact I am innocent of the accusation you have thrown at me.

You could have done this in PM,you intentionally did this in the public Forum.To plant seeds and to poisen the well.You should have found facts and truths out first.Not come in here blindly accusing me, an innocent person.

If I could prove my innocence,I would do it right away.I have no way of proving something I have no kowledge of.

This has been total character defamation.

This is a total nightmare.I am totally being wronged here.

I will continue to document all that is said here,and will take if need be serious further steps.I have been damaged in a large way.I will not be played and ruined.I will fight to the end.I am innocent.

In the end................. I expect an apology,and not in PM.....I expect it in the public view.

I will continue to monitor this.I will not answer any longer.I will document as well the goings on here.If I hear more from this in this manner I will seek my rights in a court of law.Because the damage has already been done with this false accusation.

Lunatique
05-22-2005, 05:59 AM
I'm from the U.S.. I'm an American.

Are you sure you want to have proof posted? Once that is done, there is no going back. There have been members at cgtalk that had done things they weren't proud of, and after admitting to them, they were given a second chance in the eyes of the public. But those who continually denied didn't.

Yes, I could've PM'd you. The only reason why I didn't was because there are other members who are enraged by what is going on, and wanted this out in the open. They've collected more than enough evidence and are just waiting to see if you'd own up. Last chance. I'd take it if I were you.

Antropus
05-22-2005, 06:45 AM
I saw that you already read my message and you know about all the proofs I have. I hope you can keep all the evidences with you and use it if needed. I'm doing the same here.
At any time I can post this and even more evidences again and you can be sure I will if you keep trying to put the community against CGTalk. We are doing just our job to keep the challenges a good environment for the people that work hard and honestly.

You still have to explain about all these accusations.

Kris

superhooman
05-22-2005, 07:48 AM
Looks like you got busted big time. I managed to read Antropus's post and the evidence there was undeniable.

limousine
05-22-2005, 07:56 AM
Wow :eek:
I'm shocked by the evidences I read. Interesting job the mods did collecting so many proofs. Looks like the people goes crazy just because of the prizes.

Well, I decided to save the message in my computer in case someone need.
What a shame. I was trying to understand how a work just about average can have so many views but now everything is clear to me.

- limo

ihamid
05-22-2005, 08:21 AM
hi

its sad that i came upon to read the evidence, which is of course undeniable and hearing there is more .......:sad:!

its shocking ...... as antropus and other forum leaders specified u owe cgtalk an explanation if not for your fans.:sad:


-hamid

Virtuoso
05-22-2005, 08:29 AM
I knew this would come from you Antropus.You are the root,or one of the two roots to all this.

I would like to know now,if you are representing CGTALK in this or if this is on your own,a personal issue?

I need to know this ASAP,so I can take the correct steps.

I have perfect explanations for this,I know 100% of what is going on here.............I am a victim of total fabrication,this is false.I will prove this.This is not the place for this.Or the time,but the time will come soon.

This is a total load of crap.All manipulated to damage me.This is no proof,this is false and set up in a way to ruin me.I will prove this,I have already started the wheels turning.

I have never falsified voteing.In the last challenge I did not even make the shortlist.But was asked to be in the GSO book with my work,it was good enough obviously.This after having many people think I should have been in very good standing............. If I had false accounts as you state.How in the World could I have not been in the final 15.I was very popular, and with these accounts would have easily made the top 15 list.If they had existed.But they do not.

As for your list of IP addresses I have an answer to this.This list you posted is just what I wanted,and had hoped for.I now have documented proof of a list of lies.I have proof of these peoples existence.I have already moved forward on this,and will continue to finish this very soon.And will prove this in it's proper place,far from Cgtalk......That these IP addresses are not mine,as you are accusing me of.

This is what I wanted.I know I am innocent,and will prove this.I will take now the further steps I need to for defamation of Character.I now also take this personally Antropus.I will be collecting information from many people on this list,if not all,proving there existence,and proving your accusations to be lies.They exist,and are not false accounts made by me.You will see soon enough.

Again I would like to know now,if you are representing CGTALK in this or if this is on your own,a personal issue?

Now if this is just you...I need to know this,as then I can take the proper steps.

If this is just you......then I know that Cgtalk and I are fine.That this is then a thing in-between you and I.......

If this is Cgtalk,and you are representing them,then I know as well what steps I must take......

I am very sure,and very innocent,and will prove this.I will be looking to take the correct steps in proving my innocence.

That so called evidence you put up is a load of lies and crap.And I will show this. I have fans,I have friends of all manner,and will show them as real people.......Showing that you or whoever put these lies together will be found in the end.

I have no worries,I am totally innocent,and due to this have all the confidence in the World of getting my justice.And I will be coming for justice with my teeth bared.I am not one to fool with,I will not be ruined and played with,I will prove my innocence.Antropus I dont know who has put this list together or given you this false idea,or if it comes from you yourself,or if you work with another in some way,but in the end this will come out.

Someone has handpicked these people,and I will get the facts.These people will come forward and show there existence.I know this.And am anxious to show this.

This will be shown to be a conspiracy.

To all my friends here, you know who you are......I am sorry for this,but have no other way to go about these false accusations.I wish you the very best,and good luck in all you do.You will see work of mine by the end of 2006,a large production,and when you see it you will recognise it's from me.Perhaps we will meet again somewhere sometime after I have received my justice.........Good luck to you all......

I am awaiting an answer from you Antropus,is this you,a personal issue and attack.Or are you representing CGTALK? Once I get this answer I can move forward......

After I get the answer I will click the little "X" In the corner of the screen,and only re-appear once I have been given justice.I will not answer any more here,I will not even look in once,for the circus will start,or is it a witch hunt? Have your bonfire, for those that will partake in it.But the falsely accused witch will not be on the fire.............

I need your answer now Antropus.A personal issue and attack.Or are you representing CGTALK? I need to know in which way I move.

I can only say for one last time,I am innocent of these false accusations.....And will prove them.Without any doubt!I have 100% confidence in this.The day of reckoning will come.

TheFirstAngel
05-22-2005, 08:30 AM
well as a humble participand and proud member of this great community, i am shocked to read whats happening here. Also Michael is not only a very talented artist, he also is a great friend and most helpfull person, enthusiastic, passionate and a hard worker.
I just would like to add 1 point in this case wich looks like the top of an iceberg to me i really dislike very very much.
first of all i am very happy cg talk disabled the public vote, since that took down suspicioucy of collecting fans if someone just takes a trip and writes comments or helps wich in my oppinion is the meaning of being in a community. we're all here to learn.
since popularity does in my oppinion not have any influuence of the quality of a work, a viewrate may be a great thing but as i said, its not changing anything.
if there should be some "bot"fans, thats new for me, its lets say strange.
i feel jealousy, anger around i was so happy i didnt find it for a long time in here. this always was my favourite community ever. i remember we been speaking af a leage of extraordinary gentlemen and also of some spirit, a familly. doooods. in my case, i came to learn and improve, meet good ppl. i decieded after starting my 2d to continue it cuz i felt i can learn much. i failed on the finnishingg line and you know what? price is NOT what i really would care about. god damn, be thankfull for what cg talk is offering you. its a pro place wich offers artists to meet each other. make expirience. make contacts. learn. and those challenges always were great fun. i feel mmuch jealousy, and anger, ppl get flamey fast, this is far from behaving pro.
I agree with michael in the point of try clear differences in pm's if possible. i didnt see the proofs and i don't wanna see them, cuz i don't care. the flaming started in different threads, most of times i felt like its often thos who cry loud who are not even able to draw a straight line. that makes me sick.
About fanboybehaviour:

I am fan myself of many things. I say if i like a work. i am an intuitive and emotional person, and i can't see anything wrong to let someone know i like his work. but also, i appreciate honest crits. i expect that from every friend. cuz i wanna learn. and i would like to say something wich bothers me very much:
I see a thread of an expirienced artist, its filled with 120000 ahh and oooh posts. and those who could use helps and crits keep posting lonely in their own threads, and noone even if they look at it would open his mouth and say what he thinks. that stinks. i do not always make it to post in every tread, but at least i try, to be honest and constructive as good as i can. and i hope you try to remember what you'd appreciate yourself. this is not a war, its a friendly challenge under ppl who share the same passion. Artists should be openminded. and over that greedy, jealous and ugly behaviour society normally lets us suffer. act like that.

Lunatik, Leigh, Antropus and Michael, you all always were in my highest respect, great artists and great personalities and to read here what's happening almost makes me cry.

I'd like to suggest you take this discussion "offline" hehind the curtain, til things are clear, and I know it is not my place to deciede whats right or wrong. But in manner of keeping this the great place i know it as, let's all chill and as it anyways is over, just discuss it out without hard feelings. things heat up in a bad way.

I hope this all solves without more harming feelings. Hope i didnt sound disrespectfull. if yes, I'd appologise.

sonicstrawbery
05-22-2005, 08:49 AM
What happen here... ??? This thread took a sad way, i don't like that...

Well Michael you know what i think about your work and i must say i'm not deceived by your final picture ! Always your unique style, the color scheme and characters are really fun :thumbsup:

I hope this messages problem will get solved rapidly and wish you good luck for the voting man :thumbsup::buttrock:

superhooman
05-22-2005, 08:56 AM
<removed by administrator>

leigh
05-22-2005, 09:01 AM
This is very unfortunate, but I am closing this thread until further notice to avoid a war. Virtuoso, please contact me privately if you wish to discuss this matter - leigh@cgnetworks.com.