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Speaky
03-22-2005, 08:09 AM
Jesse Speak has entered the Master and Servant 2D.

Challenge Page (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/masterandservant/view_entries.php?challenger=5809)

Latest Update: Final Image: Maps for the Lost - Finished!!
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1116186710_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1116186710_large.jpg)

Right, enough noodling of details, I'm as done as I'm ever going to be! I'm including a link to a bigger version of the file at my website. Check below...

Check the upper right corner - much better than it was. Lots of areas have been touched up, the suit of armour is better now, the cat's got some detail on it. I could work on this ad nauseum but I reckon now's the time to post and be damned.

I'm very happy with it really, this challenge forced me to draw characters which I don't normally do. I think I've achieved a balance between immediacy and depth which works for me. It takes a bit of a look to understand what's going on, but then it clicks, and there's some humour. Beyond that there are a load of small touches and details as payoffs for further scrutiny, and I like the backdrop being at odds with the genre of the characters.

And thanks for your support, good luck to everyone!

Speaky
03-22-2005, 08:15 AM
Wow, so many entries already! I'm glad to see lots of familiar names again, I'm gonna enjoy this one immensely!

Good luck to one and all!

PS. Don't mean to boast, but I got myself an Intuos3 A5 tablet recently, certainly an upgrade from my 1998 Penpartner that I did the last three challenges with. Woohoo! Let's hope it makes some difference to my figure drawing 'skills', eh?

Squibbit
03-22-2005, 08:41 AM
about time then u updated your equipment :D

yea it's gonna be one tough challenge ,good to have u in !

sketchfiend
03-22-2005, 09:01 AM
Good luck mate, im looking forward to seeing your entry.:thumbsup: :bounce:

element5
03-22-2005, 09:50 AM
Hiya Jesse, last year I didn't know anyone on CGTalk and now I recognize so many Friends.
Looking forward to you work :)

kalemna
03-22-2005, 09:52 AM
welcome in this new challenge, have fun and good luck :thumbsup:

MDN67
03-22-2005, 09:54 AM
welcome jesse and good luck:thumbsup:

tlggungor
03-22-2005, 09:55 AM
welcome and good luck :buttrock:

monsitj
03-22-2005, 10:11 AM
wow! waiting for your breathtaking color sketch! can't wait ! hurry! you amaze me from the GSO , good luck

paulwdavidson
03-22-2005, 10:14 AM
Good luck, mate.


Paul

mack72
03-22-2005, 10:20 AM
Looking forward to seeing your stuff!

Good Luck!

Mack

Fahrija
03-22-2005, 11:10 AM
Hi speaky,

congrats to your new equipment > this will increase the fun that´s for sure.

and of course good luck.

fahrija

NinjaA55N
03-22-2005, 12:25 PM
Im signing in! This will be once again much fun to observe... from sketches to the final piece :) goodl luck!

Speaky
03-22-2005, 12:32 PM
Cheers guys, thanks for the welcome back!

An idea just came to me over lunch, but I won't have time to sketch it out until a bit later because I've got stuff to do today :sad: (read: work).

I'm thinking of pairing up a really snooty aristocrat character - all powdery whites, frills, lace and so forth - with his servant, a small goblin like creature who is carrying his luggage, a huge ridiculous mountain of travelling goods. The humour will come from the foppish aristocrat who might be mopping his forehead from the 'exertion of it' while disdainfully meeting the gaze of the fuming goblin creature. Sounds promising to me, I'll see if I can come up with something later on.

W-I-L
03-22-2005, 12:33 PM
LOVED UR INVOLVED process speaches last time..... cant ait to see what u got for us. thsi will be better than the space opera!

coCoKNIght
03-22-2005, 06:42 PM
Yeah, I must agree with W!L.
Looking forwart to that sketch!

Tommy Lee
03-23-2005, 05:04 AM
Hey there, sounds promising...:thumbsup:

Good Luck buddy

Tom

SideAche
03-23-2005, 05:49 AM
Hey Jesse, best wishes! Love your work and looking forward to another quality performance from you.

AirbORn
03-23-2005, 05:53 AM
Good luck! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with this round :)

igorstshirts
03-23-2005, 06:33 AM
On board for the ride.

Speaky
03-23-2005, 06:39 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1111563531_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1111563531_large.jpg)

I finally found the time to make a start on the challenge, by getting up an hour early - talk about dedication!

At this stage, I'm only really interested in fleshing out my idea in a basic way. No interesting POV, no colour, just a quickie black and white sketch to explore the theme.

Ever since the challenge was announced, I've had the idea of master and servant rolling around my head, and my most fundamental reaction to it is one of humour. Maybe it's because of Blackadder, I'm not sure!

So basically, here's the foppish aristo figure who's off travelling and seeing the world (he's probably been 'on the road' for all of half an hour), and he has brought along everything he needs to ensure his lifestyle isn't impacted in any way.

I will probably make the luggage mountain much bigger, and I'm thinking that the aristo could do with his love interest fauning at his side as he acts the hero, much to his servant's disbelief. I think there is mileage in this idea, what do others think?

jamihn
03-23-2005, 06:43 AM
Heehee, I like the idea of the aristo's love interest being all PDA while the servant busts his ass carying the heavy load. The servant is the one doing all the hard work, yet the snob guy would be making like he's the manly one! I'm not familiar with your work, but from the sketch it looks like you'll be able to get some good expressions going.

teknotek83
03-23-2005, 06:48 AM
loving the glasses guy's character design! keep on trucking! :-p

Jezzarts
03-23-2005, 07:04 AM
Hey Speaky, good to see you back here! Before I read the caption, I thought it was the husband carrying his impossible wifes stuff. I can see where this is going now... cool. You could have all sorts of crap in there... including the kitchen sink! Maybe he could be at a ship dock ready to set off? good luck!

jddog
03-23-2005, 09:16 AM
good luck jesse... I will follow with lot of interest you progress... amazing souvenir of your beautiful work of GSO !

jdd

mack72
03-23-2005, 09:32 AM
Nice start. The composition looks good as well!

Keep it up

whiterat
03-23-2005, 10:27 AM
Cool idea, I really want to see the color scheme, the composition don´t quite convince me.

Keep going and good luck


Miguel Pizzo

Speaky
03-23-2005, 01:17 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1111587445_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1111587445_large.jpg)

Taken the idea a bit further here. I wanted to give the goblin servant a whole lot more to carry, and he's doing a pretty good job of it too! I plan on having a lot of different elements in the baggage, cupboards, clothing racks, a (badly realised) chef trying his best to cook, an eccentric relative along for the ride. And of course, the cat is now a fixture!

Oh yes, the love interest isn't looking too pretty here, I'm just pushing pixels trying to settle on a format.

The idea is taking shape too - a young prince of the realm has been sent adventuring by his father, the king, in the hope of rustling up some tales of derring-do for the bards, and hopefully to make him a worthy successor and less of a useless fop. So, the prince sets out with his goblin servant, bound by a magic oath to aid him throughout his journey. Oh, and to carry the ridiculous amount of baggage the useless prince simply couldn't leave behind!

OKMER
03-23-2005, 02:28 PM
Hé this sounds great!!Nice concept!looking forward to see how youll work this out!!!Great challenge and a lot of fun to you man!!!

Tranchefeux
03-23-2005, 02:46 PM
Hi Speaky,
Glad to see your presence, I am impatient to see hundreds
of sketch and ten painting :) ,
Good luck with you.

NinjaA55N
03-23-2005, 11:40 PM
Nice start :) interesting story. Exept from that the gobblin could be more bend over (the stuff on its back must be heavy as hell) there is no other crits at the moment :) keep up the good work!

lotaH
03-23-2005, 11:50 PM
Hi man!! Besides, a good idea, very comic, you already display that has a beautiful style. Congratulations. :applause:

Imagine several details in that " backpack " that the small carries.

[] ' s

Tommy Lee
03-24-2005, 05:42 AM
Great,... made me laugh when I saw it!:thumbsup: ... great concept buddy.

Walrusmann
03-24-2005, 05:49 AM
nice to see you again man youve got a good start should turn out interesting ill have crits when you start coloring but for right now it just looks like a solid idea from where im sittin

Squibbit
03-24-2005, 06:00 AM
heh, u could make them people be passing a roadside shop
and the girl jumpin up n down having an urge to buy something
to add to the load the goblin carries and the goblin lookin freaked
out about it.


fine paintings so far :thumbsup:

Speaky
03-24-2005, 06:40 AM
Thanks to you all for your kind words!

I've been thinking about the pic, now I'm not sure if the girl has a place in the foreground or not. I suspect her addition will weaken the interplay between master and servant, so perhaps this needs to be centre stage after all. She could perhaps be relegated to a place in the baggage. What is needed is some kind of dynamic between the foppish prince and the goblin. I was imagining the prince, in his best fighting gear (style over substance) being freaked out by a squirrel bounding across the path or something and the goblin slapping his forehead or laughing his head off. Hmmm... considerations...

Okmer - Cheers!

Tranchefeux - Hey, I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. I loved your GSO entry, it was amazing! As to hundreds of sketches - that was due to the GSO topic, it was so 'my thing' that I couldn't help myself! In the end I was having quite a struggle choosing one though, so this time I'm going to develop just one initial idea a bit more thoroughly.

NinjaASSN- Thanks, the goblin will be struggling badly in the final version I'm sure! Good to see you back for this challenge :thumbsup:

LotaH - Doing something comic is unusual for me, it was just the first response I had to the topic so I thought I'd go for it. I'm intending the end result to not be too cartoony, but still be very exaggerated, we'll see how it turns out!

Tommy - Hey man, I'm happy you're here for this challenge too! Glad the idea made you laugh as well, that is the intention :D

Walrusmann - Hello, no need to wait for the colour to give me crits! Cheers man...

Squibbit - Ha, great idea, she could be pointing at a big marble statue or something and the goblin could be freaking out! Thanks buddy...

Speaky
03-24-2005, 10:07 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1111662473_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1111662473_large.jpg)

I slopped some colour onto the last version, then decided to lose the love interest and introduce the terrifying (and badly drawn) squirrel element.

Also to note: the prince is having a shockingly bad hair day, not sure what I was thinking really, it just turned out like that! In fact, I should really have a look at some reference pics for the costume and styling - it'll improve, I promise. It can't get much worse!

I do think I captured the prince's foppish and unmanly fright at the little nut gatherer, I like his pinky and thumb showing that he has no experience with a sword. I also quite like the colour scheme, and the way the baggage is taking form, oh and the castle in the background showing that he hasn't even been off adventuring for more than an hour. Still don't like the chef, need to work on the goblin and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Crits and comments: bring them on! Thanks for taking a look!

Squibbit
03-24-2005, 10:21 AM
now this is starting to look funny!

it's so cool he taken every possible thing with him
so the trip would be comfortable and he's still
unprepared for the road, hehe

nebezial
03-24-2005, 11:01 AM
Ok this is gonna be one hilarious yet brilliant piece of work. i love it :thumbsup: cant wait to see more. Man these chalenges sure push us into frenzy:twisted:

Tariq12
03-24-2005, 12:24 PM
Loved your Grand space Opera piece. Can't wait to see what you do with this challenge.
Good luck.
T.

my master & servant : http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=222506

Gamoron
03-24-2005, 01:50 PM
I was incredibly impressed with GSO images too. I like the palette you've chosen for this one so far. I know its a sketch but if you hadn't of mentioned the pinky I wouldn't have noticed it in the sketch. It looks like its part of the sword. I'm also having trouble getting a sense of the size for the goblin, he seems to be right beside the Prince (well not quite). Its a sketch though. Maybe you can give a reason for the king being up there? Like he's sick or something, just to give some clue to the Prince's reason for adventuring.

:beer:

I like

Adamos
03-24-2005, 02:35 PM
Hi Jesse!

After following your gso I'm going subscribe here as well! Love your comments on your own work, I'm also a bit like you when it comes to critting ourselves...I have a respect for humor and haven't decided whether I'm going in that direction or not, you might influence me to do so :)

check you out later

ps.: the squirrel is fine, at least he' s not having a bad fur day :)

Walrusmann
03-24-2005, 11:03 PM
i like what youve got so far i think you should definitly keep the wild hair and you captured the feel of the prince being scared of the squirle (thats not even how you spell it is it)

Speaky
03-25-2005, 10:14 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1111749265_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1111749265_large.jpg)

Having recovered slightly from the bad hair in the last one, I rethought the prince's reaction to the squirrel. Instead of jumping in alarm and the goblin grinning, I wanted to give the impression that the prince, leaving the castle on his 'own' for the first time ever, crept out of the gate in a state of utter terror and has been cowering behind his shield, sword poised for the entire mile or two that they have travelled so far.

So the goblin, instead of grinning, is beginning to despair at the long and excruciating journey ahead of him, since the prince is freaking out at every stone, flower and small furry creature that they've encountered so far.

"Go forth, my son, and come back a man. Bring me back tales of derring-do, sword and sorcery, and adventures near and far!"

What we are witnessing is a case of derring-don't, swoon and farcery, and nightmares here and now. For the goblin, at least!

Squibbit
03-25-2005, 10:51 AM
dude , it doesn't look as dynamic as before and the goblin's look had
more comedy value before I think . Now it's too obvious and sort of a
after the situation thing. The last composition was really on the spot, u should
refine it more

your color and lighting work is awesome as usual


just an opinion , maybe i viewed it too critically :)

.

teknotek83
03-25-2005, 11:21 AM
Haha. Funny image. Keep on going!

Kosmos
03-25-2005, 12:27 PM
Good to see a former guy from the space opera challange, ill keep looking at your stuff and your "many ideas" with great interest


My Master and Servant
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=223447

MDN67
03-25-2005, 12:51 PM
i lile your concept, is very good, i wait the continuation of your pic:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

jamihn
03-25-2005, 01:29 PM
HAHA! That's histerical!

I really liked the goblin's rolling eyes in the previous one. His eyes were just so expressive. His hand over his face communicates well, but I don't think it's as strong as seeing his eyes. Maybe you could move his hand higher up so you can see his eyes. I love how this one is shaping up. Love the painting style.

OKMER
03-25-2005, 01:36 PM
I kind a agree with squibbit,but this going to be reallu fun!!Nice start!!

jddog
03-25-2005, 01:37 PM
me too I'm agree with squibbit... but the idea is really funny :scream: als usual excellent skills !
jdd

digital-bobert
03-25-2005, 02:08 PM
Hey good luck with your entry! I really liked your space opera pic

bonestudio
03-25-2005, 02:20 PM
Very funny idea, and so nice color scheme.

I just think in term of composition you could find something more interesting then the 2 characters on the same plan....

good luck you're on the good way

lotaH
03-25-2005, 02:22 PM
Your work reminds Miguél de Cervantes...Don Quixote de la Mancha...hehehe

Congratulations!! :thumbsup:

Very well worked...don't worry, with certainty it will go for a good road...

[]'s

Speaky
03-25-2005, 10:50 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1111794654_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1111794654_large.jpg)

I've reworked my latest sketch to give a bit more of a dynamic to it. I'm definitely leaning more toward the cowering behind the shield prince rather than the jumping in fright prince. Something about it just seems a little less slapstick yet, for me at least, just as funny.

I prefer the orientation of the goblin, the last set of sketches was a little bit head-on, not a very interesting depiction. Perhaps for the final I might even push the POV downwards a little, but I don't want to take the attention away from the cowardly prince and the laughing goblin. Oh and the baggage stack which is now towering out of control! I have plans for struts, scaffolding and duct tape holding this ensemble together.

I like the goblin's grin, he's really having a laugh at his 'master's expense!

All in all, a nice few hours of painting pleasure, wine and tunes. Lovely. Nighty night!

Squibbit
03-25-2005, 10:56 PM
u coulod make the goblin look at the master and maybe have his toungue
show in the mouth , i think it might read better then that the goblin
was laffin at the master

Speaky
03-28-2005, 02:26 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112023561_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112023561_large.jpg)

After the last sketch, I began to colour it, but thought I'd maybe jumped the gun a bit so instead I decided to bash out some thumbnails exploring the position and relation of the two characters who are going to be in the final pic.

So, going from left to right, top to bottom we have:

1) Don't like this one, the prince leading the goblin along, can't see any potential here.

2) The last composition I did, just for reference.

3) Something I like about the idea of the prince marching along and the goblin panting and wheezing following him. Not a very dynamic composition, but it would give me the chance to really focus on putting a bunch of funny or interesting stuff in the baggage.

4)Quite like this one too, the prince has been spooked by something on the ground and leapt up on the side of the baggage, with the goblin teetering on one leg. Potential to have a strong story element, though composition is a bit boring.

5)Another one which has some potential, they are navigating a path along a steep ravine, with the upper part of the baggage being pushed over by the overhanging cliff. Could be dramatic, but I think it's confusing the elements a bit, I mean the prince is supposed to be a fop, what's he doing actually adventuring?

6)Well, I wanted to try one with the prince in closeup, perhaps reading poetry or drinking a glass on champagne while the goblin struggles to catch up. Not too sure about this idea, I can foresee some problems with the readability of it, plus the goblin is obscured, and did the prince really light his own fire? Maybe this would work better as a daytime scene. Potential.

7)This is an idea to make the prince and goblin a lot smaller to really highlight the size of the baggage, also it could support a rich and colourful background. Though the characters are small, with care (and resolution) they could both read well and be detailed enough to support the composition. I am keen on having a lot of crazy detail in the baggage I think.

8)I think this has the most potential of all, actually. I'm seeing a closeup of the goblin, really ground down by the weight of the luggage, while the prince is cavorting in the sunlight perhaps throwing flowers around or something equally camp. I like the strong silhouette and angles here, and with some adjustment I could show both more luggage and push the angles a bit more...

So, my preference in order is 8, 7, and 4 I think. Any takers?

Ilikesoup
03-28-2005, 06:09 PM
Great work so far!
I'd definitely pick #8. I'd love to see the goblin's look of exhaustion and frustration close up. Maybe he's even having a smoke to settle his nerves. Maybe the prince is trying to read a map? Good idea losing the girlfriend--the prince seemed less of a sissy if he's got his girlfriend with him (unless she's bossing him around).

Squibbit
03-28-2005, 06:12 PM
yea #8 looks good .. so not only you get to practice
character drawing , you get to paint skin and sweat
drops and all :D

Walrusmann
03-28-2005, 07:16 PM
at first i liked the last concept you did before the series in your last post but i just read them and i think now that #8 has even more poteintial. With that one you really have the opportunity to show the goblins reaction maybe rolling his eyes or some thing like that would really make this a cool piece

lotaH
03-28-2005, 09:33 PM
My thought:

#1 - very good to work in the details of the prince, and he/she could give a debauch air to the dwarf.

#2 - it is it that me less taste. I find the very common idea.

#3 - that also places the dwarf behind the prince, he can be making faces some for him.

#4 - very funny. It can be very well worked. One of the best.

#5 - very good to work the lights. I consider the best.

#6 - same to the #1

#7 - same to the #1

#8 - it would be very funny the dwarf's feeling it comes.

Great work!! Congratulations!!

[]'s

Speaky
03-30-2005, 08:54 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112176446_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112176446_large.jpg)

I've taken the last of those thumbnails (8) and expanded on the idea somewhat. Initially I thought of having the would-be adventurer prince gambolling around a field, throwing flowers in the air and making the goblin's life generally unbearable.

But... in the process of refining the sketch, I saw this cavern begin to take shape around them, towering heights, rubble and signs of an empire in ruin. This is no field!

Also, I really took to Ilikesoup's suggestion that the prince might be trying to read a map, so the idea formed that the prince is completely and utterly lost. Instead of mere slapstick, I find a deeper humour here.

I mean, heroic adventurers have to get stuck sometimes don't they? It's like playing an rpg ... where on earth is that damn switch that I need to open the exit dammit? I get the impression that the prince and his burdened servant have been round and round and round and round this cavern far too many times now.

I am pretty happy with the value setup in this sketch too. There's this big silhouette of the goblin and baggage, but the eye is going to hit the lighter areas first, see the cavern, see the adventurer at the bottom scratching his head at the map. Only then will the viewer see the exhaustion, weariness and deep contempt in the goblin's expression, which will be the key to telling the story I think.

Quite happy with this one!

nebezial
03-30-2005, 09:10 AM
whoa, this is muuuuch better! last time i was here u had that coloured one, but this one rocks. the composition is clearly separated, and original. keep up the good work:thumbsup:

andreasrocha
03-30-2005, 09:56 AM
Of course you're happy...this is GREAT! Now you got it. The way you filled the layout with the dark form of the servant and left the left side to define the background and show the master is just wonderful. Great contrast.

Keep it up, Jesse...you're doing great.

W-I-L
03-30-2005, 12:19 PM
this idea is solid mate. really liking it... and composition is very nice.


But i dont think that so far the goblins face looks all that filled with contempt. he looks like he is just rolling his eyes and smiling... like he is taking it lightly . ..

anyway cant wait to see when colour goes on

lotaH
03-30-2005, 03:20 PM
Besides the advantages that you spoke, that last drawing, allows to work many details in the "dwarf's" luggage...

Good job!

Squibbit
03-30-2005, 03:28 PM
(just a little note you've probably thought of already, hehe,
if the map is big enough that it's folded in the pic, you can
show the map on this side too, otherwise we'd just see the
blank rear of the map and it might be a bit more difficult to
tell it's a map he's lookin at)

mack72
03-30-2005, 03:36 PM
I really like this latest concept. You could try and put 'fed up, or I told you this wasn't the way' type expression on the face of the goblin/caddy! I really like the values you have going on here. Looking forward to the next stages!

Cheers
Mack

eupee
03-30-2005, 03:45 PM
haha, this is cool, im keen to see the expresion on the adventurers face, really bring it out... how about make the map upsidedown even, if thats possible to bring across, and make the goblin sniggering at him... just thoughts.

SideAche
03-30-2005, 04:17 PM
I like your choice of the last one Jesse, and the additions. Your work always inspires. One change I can see would be to rotate the map a bit. It currently follows his silhouette, break it out a touch. Great stuff man! :thumbsup:

Speaky
03-30-2005, 08:52 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112219558_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112219558_large.jpg)

Glad the last value sketch was so well received!

I slopped on some colour on a layer and liked how it turned out (see everything other than the goblin). Then it was simply too tempting for me to just have a little go at working out a decent expression for the goblin. I liked the way it went, and one thing led to another and an hour or so later I came to and realised I was in full-detail mode. Bad me, must learn to restrain myself!

The reason for restraint at this stage is to make sure I work loosely on the whole first, and then gradually find areas which require greater detail. Bit of an organic process I suppose, and just another way of reinforcing the hierarchy of the image elements.

It was fun though! I must get around to submitting some more milestones soon since it appears I'm almost at my final composition.

IDrawGirls
03-30-2005, 09:19 PM
Amazing image.
Love the separation of background, middleground and foreground.
The face of the goblin is the only thing that I don't quite like.
Maybe another (weak) light source would be good!?

BaronImpossible
03-30-2005, 09:19 PM
The composition and the colours are great, but the goblin's expression needs a bit of work. It's like he's seen something above him rather than rolling his eyes, like I assume he's meant to be doing.

Speaky
03-31-2005, 05:43 AM
Nebezial - Cheers, glad you like it!

Andreas - Thanks a lot, at least this time it didn't take me 14 separate concepts to settle on one I was happy with! This one came surprisingly quickly really.... maybe I should just... try something else.... noooo! :thumbsup:

W!L - Yeah I tried to sort that out in the latest one but it seems I missed the mark!

LotaH - Thank you for the encouragement! I will certainly be able to add a bunch of detail in the baggage, but nowhere near as much as I originally intended. I think it's a bit better now that the focus is on their relationship rather than his baggage needs!

Squibbit - Cheers buddy, yeah that's a good idea. No I hadn't even considered the prince yet really, aside from scratching his head.

Mack72 - Yep, trying that now... needs to be revisited. Values - I guess it all comes down to a strong silhouette making an area of value rather than treating each element individually as it is more instinctive to do. Maybe! I'm always trying to learn how to do values better as they really are the foundation upon which a pic works or fails. Cheers!

Eupee - Map upside down - that would certainly fit in with the dumb prince adventurer character. Not sure it would be obvious enough but maybe it would work as a subtle element. Nice idea, thanks for taking the time to comment!

SideAche - Ah! :blush: Thanks, it gives me a real boost to think I could inspire someone, I guess I'm also out to try and surprise myself by setting my own goals higher and higher each time. I tend to stay away from character based stuff because it is a such a skill in itself to work with expression, figure and clothing, not something I have much practice in! Your map advice is very sound, I'll be sure to follow it! Thanks man...

Idrawgirls - Thanks! I am wondering if maybe the fore / middleground could interact a bit better, same with the middle / background - they are obviously on separate layers and it would be nice to develop some kind of flow between them somehow. I will be revising the goblin's face soon. Cheers!

Baron Impossible - I like your name! Thanks for the feedback, as I said earlier in this post it is something I need practice with. Last night when I posted it I thought I had it about right, I wanted the goblin to be really fed up but also look very stupid. I may try having him look directly at the 'camera' with half closed eyelids and use his mouth as the basis for expression. I like the idea of engaging the viewer's gaze directly. Cheers!

Arc80
03-31-2005, 08:06 AM
what's up dude.
nice. you can definately tell who the servant is (poor little fella).
I agree with IDrawgirls about the facial expression of the goblin. I would exaggurate it more, because of the weight of what he is carrying. Very nice piece though. I'll keep an eye on this too.

GoodLuck,
Archie

Speaky
03-31-2005, 08:45 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112262323_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112262323_large.jpg)

Just reverted back to the foundation of my current pic just to submit it as the line art milestone. In the absence of formal line art, it's the closest I am going to be able to provide. So... here it is.

Speaky
03-31-2005, 08:49 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112262570_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112262570_large.jpg)

Close on the heels of the last submission is the current pic which is already well into the colouring stage.

48 days left to go? I feel like I'm kind of ahead of myself here, but perhaps this is for the best since it will really allow me to fine-tune and tweak it until I am fully satisfied.

Still haven't tackled the goblin's expression, but I have put some work in on the prince and the rocky walls / structures in the middle distance.

lotaH
03-31-2005, 10:31 AM
LotaH - Thank you for the encouragement! I will certainly be able to add a bunch of detail in the baggage, but nowhere near as much as I originally intended. I think it's a bit better now that the focus is on their relationship rather than his baggage needs!


I understood your idea of placing the focus in the master...he was very good.
The relationship among them will feel for the expressions...

Would it be good to place a tired air in the dwarf, not?

[]'s

redfrog
03-31-2005, 10:36 AM
Jesse Speak has entered the Master and Servant 2D.

Challenge Page (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/masterandservant/view_entries.php?challenger=5809)

Latest Update: Coloring WIP: Maps for the lost
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112262570_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112262570_large.jpg)

Close on the heels of the last submission is the current pic which is already well into the colouring stage.

48 days left to go? I feel like I'm kind of ahead of myself here, but perhaps this is for the best since it will really allow me to fine-tune and tweak it until I am fully satisfied.

Still haven't tackled the goblin's expression, but I have put some work in on the prince and the rocky walls / structures in the middle distance.

I really like the composition on this. Nice work. Can't wait to see the finished product.

Speaky
03-31-2005, 01:45 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112280342_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112280342_large.jpg)

Some more work on the prince, the middle distance is now tying in with the foreground a bit better now that I'm hinting at structures, giant steps etc. I'm pleased with the rocky slope on the left hand side.

I was having a bit of trouble working out a pose for the lower half of the prince. I roughly sketched in a boot intending for him to be sat down reading the map, but it looks like he's taking a step up from lower ground. Combined with the way the goblin is looking up apprehensively, I could put a rocky step right in front of the goblin and make it seem that there is an exhausting climb ahead of him.

This is a great case of "it's not a bug, it's a feature" - using a flawed aspect - namely the goblin's expression - to take the picture in a new direction.

What are your thoughts?

Jezzarts
04-01-2005, 06:47 AM
Hey Jesse this is great, the colours and angles in the BG give it good depth.

You've told the story very well thru this... my only crit would be that those straight polls are a little destracting from the characters faces. A suggestion could be to make them chains and ropes as if new things keep being added... maybe the little guy only has a scrap of rope left in his hand and the master is only half way down his list!! Looks fantastic anyway - jez:)

Speaky
04-01-2005, 11:54 AM
Jezzarts - Great advice there, looking at it afresh I know what you mean about the straight lines being distracting and I reckon this needs revising. I was always a bit unsure about the left hand strap that the goblin is holding away from his body, I think it needs to go under his shoulder like the other one. I like your idea about ropes and chains, I can see this working much better if there is a mish-mash lattice of straps, buckles, metal hoops and chains all restraining the baggage. Thanks for your insight, it was very useful!

Speaky
04-01-2005, 09:55 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112396134_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112396134_large.jpg)

Just a quick update. Spent some time reworking the goblin's facial expression. Hopefully I've worked in some subtle exhaustion (red rimmed eyes, watery eyes) and other signs of fatigue and utter desperation (chewed in bottom lip). I spent a few minutes in front of the mirror trying to replicate that bottom lip, but I'm not sure it works that well.

Also, since the goblin was a bit bare, I've given him a leather peasant's hat, and a couple of gold bracelets and a ring. He is a servant after all, allowed his (very) modest status symbols.

Onsloh
04-01-2005, 10:59 PM
Excellent look.Love the depth and mood mate.I'll second the ropes and chains idea,that would be boss.:thumbsup:

CoreyArtE
04-01-2005, 11:03 PM
Hmm..looks alittle cross-eyed to me..but I dont know...Other than that the latest update is very good! I like the lighting the best!

SideAche
04-02-2005, 01:32 AM
Hey Jesse, you're blazing through this. I'm kind of doing the same. Your use of shapes and value is why I really enjoy watching you work. The background atmosphere is coming through subtle and wonderful. The straps work much better and the character of the goblin is emerging nicely. Is this latest post a close-up or have you cropped in? I kind of liked the vertical format better if you have decided to crop. The vertical rteally emphasizes the load he is carrying. Always enjoy watching you work.

pushav
04-02-2005, 01:59 AM
That servant has a great expression on his face.

Speaky
04-02-2005, 07:50 AM
Onsloh - Cheers man, ropes and chains are on the way. Compare the top of the last crop with the last full picture and you can see some iron hoops that have leather straps attached. Oh and buckles will make an appearance too.

CoryArtE - Thanks, in fact I set out to give him crossed eyes and kind of puffing out his cheeks, but opted for the chewed bottom lip instead. Maybe I need to uncross his eyes and make his eyelids sag a little more. He needs to look really tired and fed up.

SideAche - Hey, I'm a bit worried at how quickly this pic has come on! At this stage in the last challenge I (only) had about 12 different concepts and here I'm already well into the colouring stage. I set out to try to have a level of detail in this one, loose brushstrokes for the periphery and shadow detail, with high detail reserved for areas of interest. I prefer this balance over evenly rendered pictures, but with so much time left I reckon I'll just keep going on this one to see how far I can take it. Oh and this is just a detail crop, I'm sticking with the full version. Cheers!

Pushav - Thanks, I'm trying hard to nail it. Not quite there, but getting close!

Speaky
04-02-2005, 01:44 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112453040_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112453040_large.jpg)

Added straps, hoops, buckles, bags, books, a sack and some rope to the goblin's baggage!

Lots more to add, of course, I'm thinking of a crossbow, maybe a crystal ball, daggers, more books, a lute... the only danger is that the baggage area might be distracting from the master and servant a bit. The baggage could end up a bit too crisp and contrasty, though in the final stages I could take care of that by re-establishing a darker and narrower value set.

Comments, crits etc welcomed!

NOOB!
04-02-2005, 01:52 PM
colours are looking great!

NinjaA55N
04-02-2005, 02:24 PM
Im in a hurry so just a quick reply to ur work... Its gorgeus! I really love the way u developed, the characters and that u put that servant in front of a master. That way u shown the stupidity of the master even better. A great image! Keep posting, Im following ur thread with so much pleasure, but have little time to comment :/

artjunkie
04-02-2005, 02:40 PM
Wow, the details are really beginning to come to life now. Love your composition and the concept is GREAT, very whimsical. Very nice painting style, too... looking forward to seeing more updates!

Cheers,

my 2D entry:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=222438

Neozoom
04-02-2005, 02:56 PM
I just love the details coming out ! Very good job speaky!
love this thread^^

kornel
04-02-2005, 03:06 PM
It will be better and better!

I love your funny idea...

cheers: Kornél

Speaky
04-03-2005, 01:44 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112535871_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112535871_large.jpg)

Tackled some of the more serious proportional errors with the adventurer prince on the left - all to do with his upper body in relation to his legs (which were too small and offset from his spine oddly). Thankfully I've used layers in this piece - one for the goblin, one for the prince, one for the middle distance rocky column and one for the backdrop. So getting in there with the lasso tool and CTRL-T transforming areas of the prince wasn't too difficult.

I decided against portraying the two climbing up some steps towards the 'camera'. I like the fact that the prince is sitting down scratching his head, it just seems a bit more hopeless that way. It also allows me to put some map scrolls on the floor next to him - I mean it is called 'Maps' of the lost so I want to give the impression that they really are badly lost.

creativer
04-04-2005, 07:21 AM
Very nice work! Looks like its a story already you can really read into. Great characterisation!

eclipson
04-04-2005, 08:07 AM
nice, cool, but i didn see any emotional portrayal, forgive me if i've mistaken, but...keep it up, pity the goblin:) :thumbsup: goodlux!

JakubFromOz
04-04-2005, 09:02 AM
heheh this brought a smile to my face nice idea :D look how unhappy dat servant looks hehe the coloring going really well 2 keep it up :D

Speaky
04-04-2005, 09:54 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112608440_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1112608440_large.jpg)

Just trying something out here, all the changes to the goblin are on another layer so I haven't committed myself to this path yet. My girlfriend commented that the goblin, even if he was tired, looked a bit uninspiring so she suggested that he be busy making a cup of tea for the fatigued prince.

I kind of like the idea of the goblin struggling with the task, and then having to make his way over rubble and rock to deliver a tiny, rattly delicate china cup of tea. I also like the extra action in the pic, and the way the fire would introduce some warm colours into the bottom right, balancing the cold colours in the upper left. Currently it's a bit contrasty and bright, I'm thinking it would work better dulled back a bit.

The jury is out though, I'd appreciate people's thoughts on the change!

Also added: various bits and pieces in the baggage - crystal ball wrapped in purple cloth, another book, a crate and a sword.

Speaky
04-04-2005, 10:09 AM
NOOB - Cheers!

NinjaASSN - Hey thanks man, kind words there...

Artjunkie - Whimsical - that's exactly the word I'm looking for! Maybe with the extra teamaking dimension the whimsicality is even greater. Nice one.

Neozoom - So much detail isn't really my 'thing', but with so much time left I'm enjoying getting all fussy and noodling around with it.

Kornel - Thanks!

Creativer - I was worried that the story element isn't explained visually enough (like my last challenge entry), I just tend to avoid making it too blatant. I like having to consider a picture before its secrets are revealed! Cheers...

Eclipson - Fair comments, I welcome honesty. I know what you mean, but I'm hoping that some more work on the prince and the goblin will generate the emotional content. Thanks for posting...

JakubFromOz - Glad it raised a smile - that's what I'm setting out to achieve!

jowens
04-04-2005, 10:10 AM
I really like the change to the goblin, a definite improvement! I like the extra action, but it also shows the absurdity of Princes and what they expect (I also love the Prince sorta fumbling with the map, probably the first he's ever read!). :)

BaronImpossible
04-04-2005, 10:12 AM
Wow, this has come on well. The detail on his pack is great. I still think the goblin's face needs more work, though. His expression doesn't really convey much emotion. He needs more bitterness, maybe glancing with his eyes towards his master like he wishes he was dead. Actually, a bit like my neurmancer on my avatar! :D

Speaky
04-04-2005, 10:30 AM
Jowens - You hit the nail on the head, this absurdity is exactly the theme I am going for in this master / servant relationship! Nicely interpreted! :thumbsup:

Baron Impossible - Still love that name! I agree that the goblin's face needs more work, but I feel the emotions you speak of are too strong for this. The servant can certainly be bitter, I was thinking of heading for a kind of sweat-beaded brow, thin-lipped exhausted stoicism rather than simple hatred! Appreciate the comments, cheers!

Thinking more about their relationship, the prince is employer, guardian and company for the goblin, who may have risen above his peers by being a servant to royalty. Even if he is struggling with his load, and having to make one small cup of tea on the whim of his master, I just can't see the goblin giving this all up to return to the goblin slums. This comes back to something I want to be central to my pic, that a servant is different to a slave in that there is choice on behalf of the servant. Without meaning to bash others' efforts in the slightest (really! there is so much great talent and pics happening in this challenge, I wouldn't criticise anyone's interpretation of the theme) I do find that many have slipped into the 'master and slave' concept a bit easily and I didn't want to do the same. In many ways 'master and servant' offers a less dramatic but more subtle relationship to explore and I'm constantly trying to find a way to encompass this. Jowens' comments made me happy because I feel like I'm beginning to get there! :scream:

nebezial
04-04-2005, 10:37 AM
still laughing:applause: excellent work, just cant crit on it and that says alot, cuz usualy i crit on the colouring... but this... overall fantastic:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

jddog
04-04-2005, 10:45 AM
:applause: that come out really nice, lol... Extremely accurate contrast I like it !
jdd

Tommy Lee
04-04-2005, 10:51 AM
The last one hit the point...:thumbsup:

It's really great to see your progress. Nothing to crit so far what wasn't said allready...

Cheerz

Tom

sidchagan
04-04-2005, 05:22 PM
Quite a humorous concept, and coming along nicely with the coloring. I actually liked it better when the goblin looked tired, but the tea thing works too.

Walrusmann
04-04-2005, 11:42 PM
i like the goblin making tea thing it works well in my opinion but i think the rock that the prince is sitting on blends in a little to much i couldnt tell that the prince was sitting at first it took me a few seconds to see it. Maybe if you fixed the position of the prince or changed the tone or color of the rock or the prince's pants or both good luck man lookin good.

element5
04-05-2005, 12:52 PM
Outstanding progress, Takes me back to Labyrinth and Monty Python. Looking forward to more updates..

Just had a thought while looking at your image, maybe the servant guy could have his eyes looking towards the master or maybe rolling his eyes as if he is thinking (Lost again!) :)

Jezzarts
04-05-2005, 04:35 PM
Fantastic! much improved! Those buckles and ropes look great, maybe you could add a jar hanging there that keeps hitting him in the head.... with a newt in it making faces at him testing his patience!...he he ...keep it up! - jez

Speaky
04-05-2005, 09:31 PM
Thanks so much for the interest in my entry. I'm just off back home to England for ten days so won't be submitting anything for a while. Take it easy everybody and I can't wait to see what you all come up with.

Nebezial - Cool! Glad it made you laugh!

Jddog - Thanks for your kind words...

Tommy - Hey man, how's it going? I see Humpty Dumpty's on the receiving end again, eh?

Sidchagan - Yeah, humour is difficult to get right I'm finding. What I find funny is often really subtle or just plain dumb. Hard to pin down, and really hard to draw! I almost prefer the goblin looking tired but then again the whole picture is at a standstill, so I think this is the way forward. Cheers!

Walrusmann - Good points, something does need to be done. I'll revisit it soon enough. Thanks...

Element5 - Ha, I know a Python fan when I see one! And I'm looking at one right now...:applause: Cheers for posting, I had the goblins eyes in a roll / looking up type formation but figured that he'd need to concentrate on getting the scalding water in the cup. Carefully!

Jezzarts - Nice one, I'm liking the baggage too. Plenty of room for more too. A jar is good, I'm definitely thinking of some flagons of wine, gold pouches, a couple of classic treasure chests, a staff + 1 and a dagger of vampiric regeneration. Thanks man...

Tommy Lee
04-05-2005, 09:34 PM
............:twisted: :D

bonestudio
04-06-2005, 04:19 PM
oohhh I haven't seen that you worked so much on it !!!

It excellent very nice lightning, I think it could be great to turn on the light of your big bag, and perhaps blue reflection coming from the right, to feel better the shape of it...

The idea of the cup of cup is great :)

Finally I think you could work more on the goblin feets...

Keep it going

element5
04-09-2005, 09:48 AM
Element5 - Ha, I know a Python fan when I see one! And I'm looking at one right now...:applause: Cheers for posting, I had the goblins eyes in a roll / looking up type formation but figured that he'd need to concentrate on getting the scalding water in the cup. Carefully!

HEHE! .. I see where you are going with it :) .Now just waiting for more updates :thumbsup:

Speaky
04-17-2005, 09:59 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1113775168_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1113775168_large.jpg)

I'm back again! My word the amount of entries is amazing, and the standard is so high in this challenge! Oof, I'm going to have to redouble my efforts.

After a welcome break in England, I have returned to my PC and have looked over my entry so far with a fresh eye, and I see things I don't like about it.

Firstly, the composition. It is quite a bold one, and I was back and forth between really liking it and thinking it's a bit clumsy. The hugely dominant backpack does give me the opportunity to fill it with some interesting stuff, but I feel it is taking over the picture at the expense of the theme and the characters.

Secondly, the backdrop. It's limited to a thin strip down the left hand edge, and doesn't really do much to place the characters anywhere, it's just not much of a backdrop, which should really frame the characters.

Thirdly, the style. I embarked on a very evenly rendered and intricate approach. Whilst this is quite tempting (and addictive, frankly) to do, I think it is a mistake to render the same level of detail throughout. There should be a hierarchy of values, colour, edge, texture and detail which reinforce the key elements in the picture. Currently it's not working well.

Finally, and perhaps most critically, the characters themselves aren't interacting and are too separate. The link between them isn't strong enough visually, despite the challenge title explaining it well. The picture should stand alone and be understandable.

So... there we go. Serious misgivings. I'll be glad of any feedback really, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to develop a new pic. Same backdrop ideas, same baggage, but have the prince leaning against the baggage while heroically pondering their next move. I think instead of having the goblin servant making tea I'll have him slumped down in knackered defeat. Perhaps with a cigarette and a tankard of ale?

korayarts
04-17-2005, 10:17 PM
I realy like light and shadow...good luck..

Squibbit
04-17-2005, 10:39 PM
I'm back again! My word the amount of entries is amazing, and the standard is so high in this challenge! Oof, I'm going to have to redouble my efforts.


heh, i so pity the judges in this challenge, they're not gonna have an easy job
with all these great pics

hey man, so u still juggling with the compo n stuff too, i do hope u find
something u can settle on without having second thoughts, good luck:thumbsup:
To me, you've already made stuff u might have finished, stuff that would
have worked...kinda like me,heh, o well , we'll see what developes...

walrus
04-18-2005, 03:12 AM
Hey, Jesse, welcome back! I really like your new composition a lot, as well as all of the reasons you listed for moving to it. Still plenty of time to put it all together, don't sweat it!
Good luck!

-mike

Speaky
04-18-2005, 07:57 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1113854254_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1113854254_large.jpg)

My plan is this: boldly start afresh on a new canvas and try and incorporate some traditional analogue sensibilities into the picture. Hell, I've got to try something different here, faced with such a high level of talent in the competition!

I'm working on an A3 sized canvas, at 300 dpi. I've built two brushes that come a bit closer to working with oil on a heavy textured canvas, and I plan on using them (almost) exclusively. One brush is good for medium density washes, and the other brush is like using a thicker and drier paint. I'll probably end up building one for thin glazes and perhaps another for opaque detail work.

The first stage of the plan is to dive in and fill up the canvas with colour and value, just to make a start. Done that. I did do a very quick pencil sketch of the foreground first, just to get an idea of placement, but quickly discarded it once I blocked in the main shapes.

The second stage will be to keep on working like this, very blocky, pushing paint around and honing the composition until I'm happy with how it reads at a basic stage, and I know what elements will turn out to be eventually.

Beyond that, I'll start refining the whole, keeping it relatively loose for the most part, but gradually increasing the detail in the area of interest, namely the adventurer prince, the flat-out knackered goblin servant, and to a lesser extent the baggage.

Maybe it'll turn out ok too!

Speaky
04-19-2005, 02:34 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1113921282_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1113921282_large.jpg)

I've been pushing the brush around just to see what emerges from the canvas, and it is starting to take shape.

Already I can squint at it and it does seem to hold the promise of a good composition and colour balance. Even though the baggage and characters are quite central, there are a lot of angular lines to break up the symmetry.

I can see a foreground element now, the skeleton of some warrior, the ruins in the background are looking better and the two characters are recognisable at last!

Speaky
04-19-2005, 10:10 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1113948606_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1113948606_large.jpg)

Just posting the latest! Starting to enjoy this one now. I think the basics are in place, so I've begun to test the waters a bit in terms of refining it. I've got to restrain myself when it comes to detail around the periphery, just reserving it for the areas which make the picture read properly, such as the pint of ale the goblin is shakily holding on to! The idea is that the eye will naturally remain on high detail areas, hard edges, spots of saturated colour and areas of high contrast. Cunning use of these should hopefully make the picture read well.

Speaky
04-20-2005, 08:50 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114030210_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114030210_large.jpg)

I've refined most aspects of the lower half of the pic to a basic level. The baggage is looking more coherent, the characters are starting to emerge slowly and painfully, and I'm still pleased with the overall look and feel.

I've got to say that those diagonal building elements really look like railway carriages embedded in rock, and I'm half tempted to do this. Daft. I won't. Just need to work out what they could successfully turn into!

crowley
04-20-2005, 09:22 PM
I enjoy this piece a lot: one really feels how lost these poor guys are :)
A little critic though: the master's left arm position is a bit weird. Maybe it could be turned a little forwards, with the elbow resting on the master's knee or thigh. Just a thought.
In any case, great work! :thumbsup:

Dutchman
04-20-2005, 09:36 PM
Wow! Your style is so damn interesting and beautiful!!! The way you pick & place your strokes is so magical... And also the composition is realllly coool! :) Ánd I love the shading (for instance the tea-glass shading is really nice :) )...

Could you tell a bit of how you work?! Do you extensively use layers? And how do you refine previous WIPs? Every time new layers, and delete the old ones after some time....?! Please explain, cause I'm damn interested and impressed :) :bounce:

Good luck :) & sleep well,
Gijs

Ant4d
04-20-2005, 10:17 PM
hehe. thats very funny and very nicely rendered. you have very interesting painting technique. definitely something to learn from. keep it up mate.

GhostInTheMachine
04-20-2005, 10:34 PM
nice sketchy feel, the light looks good. gl :thumbsup:

overcontrast
04-21-2005, 01:47 AM
hehe very nice and funny idea.. and good progression in ur work... keep it up mate :thumbsup:

Speaky
04-21-2005, 07:15 AM
Crowley - Cheers, nice to know that their 'lostness' is coming across! I was worried that I'd chosen a really difficult emotion to portray effectively, but with some careful work I reckon it'll be ok. Good advice about the arm, I need all the help I can get when doing character work!

Dutchman - Nice comments, thanks a lot! While I do find layers useful when I'm conceptualising stuff, moving things around, chopping and changing, transforming them etc until I arrive at a final composition, I tend to work on one layer mainly once I know what it is that I'm doing. For this pic, I started off with a very quick 5 minute 'pencil' sketch in Photoshop, then since I'd pretty much got my colours and subjects down from the previous sketches and drawings, I just went straight in with a custom brush and filled the whole layer in very roughly. The method I try to use is to work from rough to refined in stages so I won't for instance go detail mad on anything until I'm 99% sure that the basic forms, shapes and colours work for me. This happens in various stages, but the good thing about this approach is that I don't need to have a hundred layers for everything. If something needs to change early on, moving an arm or a leg, then it is not hard to paint over it since it is only roughly done anyway. I will use an extra layer to try something more drastic out on, but generally I find the one layer approach is best and allows for a very holistic approach to painting. It's hard to work fluidly with many layers (I find) and they can lead to overly sharp edges. Oh and what you see of my pic is a greatly reduced size - I've opted for A3 at 300 dpi, so it looks a lot rougher close in. Again, I'm working on it at about 25% - 50% zoom, saving the 100% zoom for the later stages and critical areas of interest.

Ant4d - Glad you like it! I'm happy that you like my techniques, something that has developed in me slowly over the last couple of years. Thanks! :thumbsup:

GhostInTheMachine - A bit too sketchy at the top I fear, but on the right track I think! I'm pretty happy with the light and colouring, but it's bound to be tweaked in the final stages. Cheers for posting!

Overcontrast - I'm so glad it is clear enough for the humour to come across at this early stage! Thanks for letting me know!

Speaky
04-22-2005, 10:32 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114165977_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114165977_large.jpg)

I needed something to really separate the foreground from the middle and far distance, so I've introduced a cooling blue gradient which falls off to nothing at the horizon, while incorporating a bit more atmospheric perspective on the distant 'train carriage' element.

Speaking of which, I've started playing around with the closer train carriage (for want of a better description). I'm considering making it subtly futuristic in a way that doesn't jump out at you but nevertheless is at odds with the fantasy imagery of the adventuring prince, treasure chests in the baggage etc. Kind of oddly futuristic, but in a faded, cracked and overgrown way.

Oh, and I've flipped the canvas which I've always read is a very good way of seeing the composition afresh but never really done. Credit to Daryl for his extensive flipping during the last two challenges, I'm going to have a go too!

Lastly, while cool blues tend to recede, warm colours seem to approach the viewer, so I've slightly warmed up the light coming in from the (now) right hand side.

W-I-L
04-22-2005, 11:45 AM
i havent checked this out since your original design.... this is much better.. the goblin in shadow is excellent.. really works... plus the comedy is great.. keep it coming

Speaky
04-22-2005, 03:54 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114185279_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114185279_large.jpg)

Updated the train carriage things to try out an idea I had in which they had windows which had been shattered and smashed a long time ago. I'm not sure if the idea is a keeper, but no harm done because it's all very rough. Currently the central broken window of the nearest carriage draws the eye way too much, I'll tackle it soon enough.

Some more refinement of the rocky walls in the mid to far distance.

Worked a little on the prince's face and moved the arm onto his knee (good suggestion!), and defined the goblin and his expression a bit more.

It's satisfying because I can see it start to come together now. With a bunch more refining on the important bits, I think the picture will end up pretty good, with a surreal sense of "where on earth are we?" when the viewer looks at the weird background, the fantasy characters and the worried prince. Possibly my favourite part is that the goblin (apart from one foot) is so shaded that he'll be noticed after seeing the prince, the baggage, the surroundings etc. He's like the behind-the-scenes worker propping up the prince's foolhardy quests. Who's doing the real work eh?

Speaky
04-23-2005, 05:28 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114277306_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114277306_large.jpg)

Done more rendering on most areas, changed the prince's outfit from gold to purple (more regal and stands out a bit better). Lots of work on the mid-distance structures and rock.

Baggage has been tackled seriously for the first time, I'm feeling that it is very important that it is clearly a tied together bundle of travel supplies and collected items rather than just a stack of objects both characters are leaning on. I've put that white shirt sleeve right in the middle of the sunlit side to grab the attention and force the viewer to incorporate the baggage as a primary element rather than relegating it to the background. Well, that's the idea anyway...

Neozoom
04-23-2005, 05:44 PM
HA man! I like this idea!
always fun with you^^

like the color scheme and the tones and lights , great atmosphere quite cartoon.
can't wait details on this one. take time to refine each parts and add little details that says a lot... :)

Gamoron
04-23-2005, 05:53 PM
Great palette choices Speaky. The image looks very tight and the blue and orange are well balanced out.
:beer:

TheFirstAngel
04-23-2005, 05:57 PM
great update on the light! well your piece in general is very funny and cool. cant say much more than: Keep on rocking!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Arc80
04-23-2005, 07:27 PM
Man, i haven't been in this thread for a while, but WOW... that's some nice changes. I really like this new composition. The colours are great. Their expressions are fantastic and i really dig the lighting. The background is awesome and those small prop designs.
I'll be checking back again.

cheers :thumbsup:

GhostInTheMachine
04-23-2005, 08:22 PM
although i like the carriages youve done, i think massive fallen redwoods may work better. sunlit and with lots of forest detail mushrooms etc. put Switzerland in the bg instead of the city... could work. gl

Speaky
04-23-2005, 09:51 PM
Neozoom - I'm happy you like it! I thought something funny would balance out the more serious entries in this challenge. This is good practice for character work, and I'm enjoying it! Cheers!

Gamoron - Nice one, I'm loving your gallery on orbofday.com, inspirational stuff! (Though you seem to have slimmed it down somewhat since the last time I visited, I'll look forward to seeing what you'll add). Cheers buddy!

the1st_angel - Thanks! It's a boost to receive comments like that, it's much appreciated...

Arc80 - Cheers man, yeah I had to change the whole composition / setup pretty fundamentally because I just knew the other one would let me down in the end. This one is a bit less drastic, a bit safer but with much greater potential I reckon. Ah, l so enjoy playing around with the lighting and working out how it affects a scene, I really need to work on my characters though, the prince's face is awful up close :blush:

GhostinTheMachine - I know, it's tempting to bring the content more in line with a traditional fantasy setting, but those carriage objects (not meant to be trains really) might well end up as fallen building structures. I just wanted to have their setting as being really a bit odd, they are very, very lost! Thanks for the suggestion, and taking the time to give me feedback. :thumbsup:

Dutchman
04-24-2005, 08:02 AM
1) Awesome updates! :) Well.... the detailing is beginning now, I guess... :bounce:In every way it looks really awesome

2) Thanks for that amazing & awesome reply to my reply over here! ;) The answer was quite very interesting...! :) I think I need to 'try' working like that in Photoshop... :) Seems fun!

By the way: still 2 questions left :shrug::
- Do you use opacity when painting? Or is the opacity always 100%?
- Your brushes > do those have pressure control on the opacity or so? Or other 'special' control things? :D ;)

Again thanks for your time & still allot thanks for that last answer :) & állot good luck,
Gijs

Speaky
04-24-2005, 10:53 AM
Dutchman - Always happy to provide some answers! I use a Wacome Intuos3 A5 tablet, and have my brushes set to change their opacity according to pen pressure. I also have a (standard photoshop) canvas texture applied to them with a depth of about 75%, and this helps in getting an interesting texture and a smooth transition. Don't forget that this is a tiny version of the actual pic, it looks much rougher close up, but I like that. I made my own custom brushes this time because I wanted to simulate the bristles on a brush and it works okay - not quite as convincing as painter but not bad at all. One really useful setting I found is to set the brush angle to 'direction' and it rotates the brush to match the direction of the stroke. I just studied some photos of real oil paintings on canvas and spent a while messing around with settings until I found something that works in a similar way.

Vahn
04-24-2005, 03:16 PM
haha very nice speaky :D

mhhhm pen pressure....i dream about pen pressure ...:cry:

i like the way you are goin with your colors ...the composition is very good now as well, altough i liked the flipped version better ( but thats just me ).

whats the semi-circle at his left foot ? his shield ? a rock ? i want to know! :applause:

wraithdt
04-24-2005, 05:46 PM
Hi Speaky,
Your piece is looking awesome. I'm really loving the colours here.....oh, and good call on the purple for the prince, it really does flash him out more.
Can't wait to see the finished piece. Cheers!:bounce:

Speaky
04-25-2005, 03:38 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114443529_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114443529_large.jpg)

I've reworked the carriage type things to have a more 'toppled futuristic building' and less 'derelict train carriage' look about them.

Lots of little touches: one of the main leather straps is catching a glint of sunlight (need to make it clearer that the goblin is strapped on still, though it doesn't have to be blatant), reworked his lantern, tidied up the distant buildings, worked on the goblin's face. Lots of subtle adjustment of the rock and earth textures. Errm, and the baggage is looking slightly more defined, though the (now right hand) side needs some interest - perhaps some armour, a sword etc.

Speaky
04-25-2005, 03:44 PM
Vahn - Thanks a lot! Yeah, pressure sensitivity rules, it's in a different league to using a mouse - save up for a Wacom! That disc by his feet is supposed to be his shield resting against the far plane of a ridge.

Wraithdt - Cheers for that, it's getting there slowly!

Arc80
04-25-2005, 05:04 PM
Hey, you flipped it. Either way looks nice. Definately looking good. I like those little touch ups that you did. Definately good call on the light touching the belt a little bit. Keep em coming. :thumbsup:

cheers

Zephyri
04-25-2005, 06:06 PM
aw man, this concept made me smile... that goblin's pose and expression are just to die for! And damn it, that pint glass is just a genious touch. You're lighting and use of colour is very striking indeed, I really love the combination you've used for the sky and the futuristic building.

I'd love to see you really go to town on the luggage, the things you have hanging out on the left really sparked my interest and it'd be fantastic to see some really incongruous items hidden in the darker depths, so you notice them after seeing the rest of the image in it's entirety and it makes you smile even more.

Great work though, can't offer any crit, just wait with baited breath for more!

fensterer
04-26-2005, 08:57 PM
The detail is starting to look really good. I like the little guy's foot poking out into the sunlight! Nice work!

lotaH
04-26-2005, 09:13 PM
Hello!

I was some time without seeing that topic. Now I see that he has been developing if very well.

Congratulations!!

The comic side of your drawing should not be abandoned.

[] ' s
Good luck!

Speaky
04-26-2005, 09:31 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114551113_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114551113_large.jpg)

Hello again, just thought it would be nice to show a detail from the bigger canvas. Here is the goblin lying in the shade with his foot poking out into the sun. Notice I've given his little toe a 'pinky'!

The pic is getting to the stage where big overall changes are happening less and less and the devil is in the details. I just spent half an hour fiddling around with one end of the closest fallen structure just giving it a weathered look, quite subtle really.

At some point I've got to tackle the prince's face. At the moment it's a bit ... bad. Need to redo it. I had to add a handlebar moustache to him, that's how lacking it was.

kornel
04-26-2005, 09:36 PM
Really nice and funny! :bounce: You will post more details?

cheers: Kornél

Speaky
04-26-2005, 09:43 PM
Wow, quite a few comments since I last checked! :)

Arc80 - Yes, flipped again. It may well flip back too! That light touching the belt is important, as is the light hitting the goblin's foot. My girlfriend said she thought that it wasn't 100% clear that the goblin was strapped to the baggage, so I need to make sure there are hotspots of interest and light that ensure they are both noticed. Cheers!

Zepyhri - Glad the mix of fanstasy / SF is to your taste too, I wanted to try something a bit different. I'm hoping that the toilet roll on a string fits into the 'incongruous items in the shade' category here! Gotta think of the whole story haven't you... Thanks for posting :thumbsup:

Fensterer - Thanks for that, I'm glad you picked up on it! I guess this latest detail post will be of interest. Cheers!

Lotah - Hello again! With the exhausted goblin, the huge baggage and silly details, I don't think the comic aspect will be lost! Beyond that, though, I want a slight amount of 'worry' to creep into the situation, not just to laugh at them but actually feel for their predicament. That's the aim anyway! Thanks for dropping by...

Speaky
04-26-2005, 09:46 PM
Hey Kornel, you snuck in there while I was replying! I may well post some more details, but probably not tonight as it's getting late. I appreciate the praise, makes me want to carry on! Cheers buddy, take care...

ChrisThatGuy
04-27-2005, 01:29 PM
It might look cool if you drew the goblin's pupils in so that it look like he's rolling his eyes, as if he's complaining to the prince about how lost they are.

Very nice piece.

Speaky
04-27-2005, 09:02 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114635748_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114635748_large.jpg)

Ha, here's the adventurer prince original version. Notice the moustache and general flatness of face. So wrong! I struggled with this pretty badly so I sketched it out on paper to get a better angle and that's the following pic...

Speaky
04-27-2005, 09:05 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114635901_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114635901_large.jpg)

... and the new version of the adventurer prince's head and face. I think it's an improvement but still ... not my strong point I'm afraid.

Squibbit
04-27-2005, 10:05 PM
I liked the previous face more, even though it would need
some fixing like with the eyes that seem of different size , etc.
How about studying some photos for reference ?

the second face is better , i just liked the look of the first face
more

jeromoo
04-28-2005, 01:38 AM
I think the latest face looks like an orangutan. It has better perspective and angle, but still looked very monkeyish. Perhaps you can add facial hairs like beard to show that he has been lost for quite some time?

All the best!

Speaky
04-28-2005, 07:04 AM
ChrisThatGuy - I might well give it a go at some point. I have already toyed with this idea in the previous incarnation of this pic earlier in the thread, and not with great success. It wouldn't read as the goblin complaining to the prince because they aren't actually looking at each other, they are in their own little worlds - one of maps and "where on earth are we" and one utterly exhausted and clinging onto a pint of beer. Thanks for the feedback though, it's appreciated.

Squibbit - Ah, you don't know how much I detest that first face! Mainly because I tried and failed again and again with it. At least the new one looks more 'correct' to me, so maybe I can fiddle with it and produce something with a little more character. I don't know, it's kind of growing on me already. Photo reference? Good call, but I had a quick look online and couldn't find anything close enough. Cheers dude.

Jeromoo - Ha haaaa, yeah I see what you mean. I do have a tendency towards apelike and monkeyish faces when drawing them without reference. Weird, I think it's because I really overemphasise the mouth and the muscle ring around the mouth. And there I was thinking that this latest face looks a bit like my father too!

Speaky
04-28-2005, 08:50 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114721408_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1114721408_large.jpg)

Here's a closer crop of the prince, goblin and baggage. I refined the prince's face, added a barrel and the upper half of a suit of armour to the baggage, the cat returneth, straps have buckles at last and I've finally got around to shrinking the goblin's head a bit as it was on the large side. Happier with it now. Oh and the goblin's rolling his eyes now, just to see how it sits with me.

It's never too late to wade in with some crits or comments, they are always welcome. Cheers!

daadaa
04-28-2005, 08:56 PM
hye, really like your concept and style tis looking really cool! :D
but a little thing that shouted at me was the floor at the front, (sorry if you havent done that part yet) but the floor looks just like a flat plane ... even with the rocks it just looks like a textured plane without any actual shape, it might be the flat maps on the floor or the sword, but it will be nice to see it have some shape :)

anyway thats just a small crit, rest looks awsome, cant w8 till the finished peice

xric7
04-30-2005, 02:18 PM
great work.:thumbsup: :bounce:
realy cool idea and nice painting.
I will look forward to urs.
good luck.

ms@zx
04-30-2005, 03:23 PM
i've notice this for quite awhile since the begining of the entry and this is gonna kick some arses..u've gone through alot of improvisation which i'm very much impressed to it.the colors are great,welldone compositionally and i like the simplification u did for the background..best of luck friend.:)

blakbird
05-02-2005, 06:15 PM
Jesse, your work is simply AMAZING

I felt myself really watching a man and his poor servant turning around in a labyrinth hundreds of times, got lost and exhausted :)

Nothing more to say. If I'd be in the jury, I dont know the final voting processes but I may suggest your entry for a prize just for the developing process.

Huge parallellity of WIP pictures and the story they try to tell. I think many people agreed with me.

Tranchefeux
05-02-2005, 06:46 PM
* Hi Speaky, congratulation for your image final nothing of such as a good beer after the effort, it is precisely what I taste in this moment, all the best with your image.
:thumbsup:

Squibbit
05-02-2005, 08:15 PM
I always liked details, fun to see stuff like the cat, barrel and
roll of toilet paper there ,just keep adding if u got the time :D

Speaky
05-03-2005, 07:48 AM
Hey everyone, my time has been taken up completely for the last five days or so with visiting friends so I have had no opportunities to work on my pic. With 15 days left I feel I've got enough time to apply the final tweaks and details that I want to do so I'm happy with it at this stage.

Daadaa - Hi, I thought the ground was ok but looking at it afresh I see what you're saying. The area right in front of them does seem a bit like a flat texture so I'll revisit it a bit, though overall I like the foreground 'hill' element. Especially on the shade side where it picks up some hints of reflected light towards the edge. I didn't want anything but the very centre of attention to have any real detail, but I'll certainly think about what to do. Thanks!

Xric7 - Cheers for that!

Ms@zx - I'd like it to kick some ass, but I feel there are so many strong entries that it's going to have a bit of a hard time standing out. Obviously I'd like to win something but I'm so happy to have taken part, I've learned loads and had a good banter with fellow CGTalkers. Can't say fairer than that really! Thanks for your kind words, I guess it goes to show that refining an idea through concept sketches, colour tests and so on really helps it to mature into something better. Cheers...

Kuzgunoglu - Ah, thanks for that, I'm happy you've enjoyed looking at my thread! Your reaction is the exact one I'm aiming for, with perhaps a bit of subtle humour at the absurdity of the baggage and its contents. You've read the story visually and that's very important. A few people I know have said that it's not obvious enough that the goblin is carrying the baggage, and I kind of see that. On the other hand, the information is there and in a pic like this I didn't want to spell it out too obviously. There are a number of levels to understanding the scenario completely and I the picture is better for making it more subtle. Ideally the pic will 'click' with people and they'll laugh, but before that it'll be compelling and enjoyable enough to stand on its own. I hope! Thanks buddy...

Tranchefeux - Hello there, I need to stop by your thread and check out your progress! Yeah a beer is a good reward for a hard day's work, and is symbolic of the servant (rather than slave) relationship the goblin has with his master. Cheers... :beer:

Squibbit - I've got enough time to add some more to the foreground, and I'm going to subtly hone the background a bit too. 15 days to go and all seems well... cheers bud, I'll pop over to your thread later today to see how you're getting on - I haven't checked the 2D entries page for five days either. Can't wait to see what new stuff is happening! :thumbsup:

Speaky
05-03-2005, 07:58 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1115150337_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1115150337_large.jpg)

I've introduced some peripheral elements which help keep the eye from straying off the page in the lower left.

I'm also bringing in some more structural detail in the futuristic toppled buildings without really going into much visual detail. It's meant to create a backdrop which looks full but won't distract from the foreground.

Lots of small tweaks like the goblin's far arm which had some shoulder connection angle issues. I've redone the beer glass though I'm not too happy with it yet. Needs revisiting.

Just thought it was about time to show the whole pic as it stands currently. I'm thinking there needs to be some kind of dark closest-foreground element in the top of the frame somehow, but I'm not sure if this is possible. Watch this space!

Speaky
05-04-2005, 10:14 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1115201679_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1115201679_large.jpg)

I've flipped the image again. Since the eye travels more naturally from left to right, and I wanted the prince / master to be seen first, I think this suits the pic better.

I've brought out some of the shadow detail a bit more using the shadows/highlights option in Photoshop, before going back in and tweaking the levels a bit. I felt the pic was lacking the colourful 'pop' I was aiming for so I tweaked the colours using a 'selective color' adjustment layer.

I mentioned having a dark element at the top of the pic to help frame the central content. Instead of a foreground element, I'm going to darken some areas of the closest toppled building instead.

Still need to work on that glass of beer...

element5
05-04-2005, 12:11 PM
Speaky...sorry I havn't been by to check your work out....The image is great either way you put it...great lighting...job well done :applause:

Tranchefeux
05-04-2005, 12:38 PM
Hi, Speaky your painting is better in this direction because it
benefits from the dynamics of your decorations.

NinjaA55N
05-07-2005, 08:46 PM
Speaky: congratulations on succefully made such a hilarious pic :D the expression on the goblins face is outstanding, trully a masterpiece in showing his emotions, tiredness... and with a beer in his hand :D hahaha. Love the colors and dynamic in the background as well, very good sense of a composition u have. I hope I'll see this one in the finals. :)

lutzw
05-08-2005, 11:33 PM
Among so many entries that come across rather grandiose (lots of good ones among them, for sure), I really liked to see a good one that's more on the jocular side for a change!

I'd say the latest mirroring (you had a few) puts the composition closer to where you started, which feels pretty much like "the right side" to me.

The overall composition also feels right, coloring included. Only thing: the architectural elements at the top seem to lack a fixed perspective.

Cheers,
:) <- Lutz

Speaky
05-09-2005, 07:08 AM
Element5 - No worries, there are so many entries this time round that it would be pretty difficult to keep up with them all. I keep seeing really good ones for the first time and wondering how I missed them! Thanks for your kind words mate, take care...

Tranchefeux - Thanks, I reckon this orientation is the one to stick with too.

NinjaASSN - Praise indeed! Cheers Blaz, ever since I knew that this was going to be a heavily character-based challenge I was a bit worried about characterisation. Give me spaceships, environments, architecture, robots, technology and I'm fine. When it comes to figure drawing and facial expression I'm not that confident but I'm happy that you liked it. That gives me quite a boost! :bounce:

Lutzw - I knew from the start that I wanted to do something with a sense of humour, and I guessed that a lot of people would see the Master/Servant relationship as some huge semi-erotic power struggle between Master and Slave. I just wanted to do something a bit more subtle, really! As to the architectural elements at the top, I can't see the problem you refer to. The far distant skyscrapers are face on and don't have perspective. The two fallen columns don't share a vanishing point to the left because they are at different angles of collapse. Also, if anything, they'd be in one point perspective as they are parallel to the horizon line. The baggage perspective is two point, but it's all guesswork. Maybe one shouldn't mix the perspectives together but so far it seems to work ok. Anyone able to shed some light on this? Thanks for posting Lutzw, it's appreciated.

Speaky
05-09-2005, 07:17 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1115623061_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1115623061_large.jpg)

Just an update, I've tried a bigger size (lower quality jpeg though) to see if that's preferable. I've darkened the periphery all over, and tweaked the saturation so that it's most colourful nearer the centre of interest.

Lots of tweaks and noodling, especially the closest toppled building which has been extensively darkened along with the rocky supports.

lutzw
05-10-2005, 02:40 PM
It was just a small detail, nothing important. I was referring to the overthrown pillars: their front sides more or less seem to follow the perspective of the front side of the baggage, narrowing towards the top of the composition.

Now, the pillars' rectangular openings should hook into this vanishing point too--not as much as the baggage of course, since they're farther away--but the angles are plainly rectangular without any narrowing.

I hope this clarifies my remark somewhat ... but really, it's just a minor detail that caught my attention in your overall awsome composition!

Cheers,
:) <- Lutz

p.s.

... and I guessed that a lot of people would see the Master/Servant relationship as some huge semi-erotic power struggle between Master and Slave.
LOL & well put!

Ilikesoup
05-10-2005, 03:02 PM
Heh, I just found the spigot for the goblin's ale.

Tremendous detail, and I'm glad to see the cat stayed with you to the end. It's odd to see them in an urban setting, but it just reinforces how lost they are. Nice work!

Speaky
05-11-2005, 07:29 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1115796539_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1115796539_large.jpg)

I felt that the foreground wasn't separating from the background well enough so I made a white gradient on a layer above the pic (remember I'm doing this all on one layer) and erased through to reveal the foreground. Then I tweaked the layer opacity until I had the effect I wanted.

Other than that, lots of small detail work mainly in the background but also, finally, I've put some detail into the maps. Not entirely happy with them and I may redo them, but for now it's a start.

I tweaked the colour of the pic because I felt there was a bit of a warm cast to the light areas which I corrected by eye-dropper setting the white, mid and black points in the image>adjustments>curves dialog box.

More soon...

Speaky
05-13-2005, 09:34 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1116020041_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1116020041_large.jpg)

Where to start? I think it's really approaching the final tweak stage now. I've worked on almost all areas of the pic, tightening it up a bit here and there at points of interest.

The sky now has some clouds (and a single plane + contrail in the upper left) which I think give it extra depth.

The nearest fallen structure has been tightened up considerably, the further one could do with a bit, but I'm not sure it's that much of a priority.

The goblin's lit foot has been redone, it looked a bit too cartoon before, now it's a little better. I prefer the angle of sag too, increases the sense of tiredness! I gave him a cigarette too and had him exhaling smoke, which I quite liked but thought it cheapened it a bit.

I took the prince's upper body and stretched it vertically a bit since it looked a bit compressed before. I just lassooed around it and copied it to a temporary layer, stretched it, reworked it in and then flattened it. Easy enough really.

A face seemed to emerge from the rock on the left hand side, so I accentuated it.

Err.. lots of rock details, I quite enjoy doing those!

Left to do: the armour is a bit too loose, and that damn glass of beer is really annoying me - can't seem to crack it!

walrus
05-13-2005, 11:11 PM
Wow, Jesse, you've sure been tweaking a lot since I last checked this out. It's looking really nice. I keep seeing small details and think you just added them, but scroll up the page to find that they've been there all along. The joys of having so many fun details in one's piece, i guess! I really like the rim-light on the Goblin - he's not getting lost even though he's in the shadows.

So while you're tweaking small details, i thought I'd point out two areas that are now grabbing my eyes a bit distractingly: The tea-towel above the man's head, and the area of white in the lower right. Now that you've so distinctly staked out the whites as your background color, such strong whites in the foreground are tending to recede... or read as holes. Well, wither way, they're pulling my eyes to areas where they don't need to be.

One other small note, on the windows in the background-overhead buildings: The perspective on the windows makes it seem as though we're viewing them straight on, but from this angle, shouldn't we be looking up at them, and thus have them diminishing towards some vanishing point way overhead?

anyhow, just some thoughts. I love how this is coming out overall, and I too can echo what lutzw said about appreciating the more humorous side of the Master and Servant relationship. :-)

Good luck with the rest!

-mike

moonspell
05-13-2005, 11:37 PM
Very good job.. very expresive. And I like the color palette. Good luck.:thumbsup:

Speaky
05-14-2005, 08:32 AM
Walrus - Cheers man, useful feedback there. I'd been thinking about the patch of white in the lower right corner for a while now, I wasn't sure if it was problematic or not. It's there to balance out the composition - that ying/yang always a spot of light in big dark areas (and vice versa) so to speak. It might be enough to have it less bright and the edges in the area a little less sharp. I hadn't thought the white shirt sleeve problematic though, it's a leftover from an earlier stage when I thought the pic needed something to lead the eye to the prince. I'll give it a look over. As to the perspective on the distant skyscrapers, I'm okay with it I think, I mentioned earlier in the thread that the perspective is a bit of a jamboree! If the focal length of the 'camera' was in the wide range and/or the camera was tilted vertically then yes I'd say there would need to be some tapering to the buildings to a common vanishing point. As it is, with the 'camera' level to the horizon, it looks to me like a telephoto lens which would both compress distance in the background (which it looks like) and maintain this kind of front-on perspective.

Moonspell - Thanks for taking the time to post, it's appreciated! For a long time I was a bit worried that the palette was a tad washed out, but with some gentle successive tweaking it's working for me now. Glad you like it! :thumbsup:

JasonChan
05-14-2005, 05:16 PM
Hey Speak! I can't believe I didn't see your image until now! It looks great, man. I love all of the little details you have going on. The little cat on top is a great little touch :)

Speaky
05-14-2005, 09:35 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1116106519_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1116106519_large.jpg)

Minor update to show the result of Walrus' suggestion to remove the prominent white patch in the lower right hand corner. Excellent suggestion there, it's improved the pic a lot. Great how a fresh pair of eyes will spot new things.

Also... I got fed up redoing that damn beer glass. Instead of insisting that I do it all from imagination, I sourced a photo of a glass of beer with roughly the right look and used it for reference. Excellent, it was really niggling me.

Finally, have pretty much tightened up the mid distance toppled tower.

Left to do: suit of armour and some noodling of the background. Perhaps some subtle texture nuances in the foreground. I plan to submit my final tomorrow night and upload the TIFF as well. Laters!

NinjaA55N
05-15-2005, 11:32 AM
Everytime I look at it I laugh :D that goblin is some character! But I think that u hava a version wit hhis eyes a bit more close... the previous version for an example.. I prefer those on more. But its just my opinion :)

Speaky
05-15-2005, 07:51 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1116186710_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5809/5809_1116186710_large.jpg)

Right, enough noodling of details, I'm as done as I'm ever going to be! I'm including a link to a bigger version of the file at my website. Check below...

Check the upper right corner - much better than it was. Lots of areas have been touched up, the suit of armour is better now, the cat's got some detail on it. I could work on this ad nauseum but I reckon now's the time to post and be damned.

I'm very happy with it really, this challenge forced me to draw characters which I don't normally do. I think I've achieved a balance between immediacy and depth which works for me. It takes a bit of a look to understand what's going on, but then it clicks, and there's some humour. Beyond that there are a load of small touches and details as payoffs for further scrutiny, and I like the backdrop being at odds with the genre of the characters.

And thanks for your support, good luck to everyone!

Speaky
05-15-2005, 07:54 PM
Here's the link to the bigger version. It's at 33% scale to give you an idea of the original size.

MASTER AND SERVANT FINAL IMAGE - BIGGISH JPEG (http://www.pikzel.co.uk/masterservant/Master_Servant_Jesse_Speak.jpg)

Vahn
05-15-2005, 11:57 PM
very cool image speaky... stylish brushwork, nice n sharp contrast , a very pleasing colorscheme, a good idea, funny characters ... i really like every bit of this! :D


gj man :thumbsup::applause::applause::applause:

arkinet
05-16-2005, 03:41 PM
love your unique concept dude, its funny & everything relates tot he whole image... the ruins look great too...:thumbsup:


thnx for stoppng by my thread too, i appreciate the comments.

walrus
05-16-2005, 04:13 PM
Great work, Jesse! That lower corner is reading great now... Glad the observation was useful. And the beer mug is the best one yet, too! Wonderful piece, and congrats for finishing!

-mike

Arc80
05-16-2005, 07:22 PM
LOVEly piece dude, lovely. I'm glad to have seen it from the beginning to the final image (well, i've missed a couple of the middle progress, but...). COngratulations to you dude!!!

great job :applause: :bounce: :applause: :bounce: :applause:

cheers

nebezial
05-16-2005, 07:24 PM
lookin great, congratulations on finishing mate:thumbsup:

paulwdavidson
05-16-2005, 07:36 PM
Very cool.


Congratulations for your piece.

Good luck

Paul

MDN67
05-16-2005, 07:39 PM
Nice pic, inhabitual concept, good work and good luck for the final

ErwinM
05-17-2005, 02:58 AM
Hey Jesse, congratulations on finishing your painting. It looks great and your values read well. Nice job!

Erwin

camtheman
05-17-2005, 03:21 AM
hey Speaky, almost forgot about your entry...sorry for popping in so late, but great work anyway. Good luck!


my M&S:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=2289901#post2289901
my site:

www.camerongardnerstudios.com (http://www.camerongardnerstudios.com/)

Jezzarts
05-17-2005, 04:06 PM
hey Speaky! I'd need more than an ale after carrying that lot! Fantastic work and comical to boot. Congrats on finishing and best of luck!

Speaky
05-18-2005, 07:21 AM
Oh wow, lots of posts since I last looked in! After finishing I had to take a break and got very distracted with the happenings at E3...

Vahn - Thanks for posting, I set out to try and do the whole pic with just a few canvas textured brushes and I reckon they worked pretty well. I do wonder how much better Painter is at this kind of thing though...

Arkinet - Cheers! I actually stuck to one core concept from the very beginning, that of the goblin servant carrying a stupid amount of baggage. I think the idea refined nicely as I went along, almost going down one route that I wasn't fully happy with - the one with the goblin dominating the foreground. I'm so happy I changed to this composition!

Walrus - Hey, I'm very pleased with that lower right corner now, you were spot on with that advice. I feel the beer mug is a bit of a cheat because it's the only thing I copied from reference (pretty closely too). Ah well, it was the most problematic element and I'm glad it got sorted. Thanks buddy!

Arc80 - Awww... cheers man!

Nebezial - Hi there, thanks for stopping by! You put in a most impressive last minute performance on your pic, it turned out great. I'm just glad that mine seemed to come together and finish nice and smoothly without stress towards the end! :)

Paul - Hey, cheers man, glad you like it! I'm hoping that my humour approach to this theme will help it to compete with some of the incredible entries (like yours) which have a less whimsical outlook. Whatever happens, good luck to you too and to everyone else, I really enjoyed taking part!

MDN67 - Well, 'inhabitual' is my middle name! ;) I knew with this challenge that there was a great temptation to go for some colossal theme of master versus slave, some kind of titanic struggle of the innocent against bondage. I wanted to sidestep all of this and do something really silly, especially after my GSO entry. Normally I don't do humour, or characters, so I set myself this task and I'm very happy with how it turned out!

Erwin - Many thanks, I'm glad this one is over and done with finally! I studied values the most over the last year so I'm glad if it shows up in my work. Cheers...

Cameron - Thanks man, glad you like the way it turned out!

Jezzarts - Hi! Yeah, that is one strong little goblin to carry all that, that's why he's got a barrel of ale - to drown the pain of those aching muscles! I'm happy that the comedy in it seems to work for people, I imagine it can be a bit of a hit or miss affair generally, but I seem to have hit the nail on the head with it. I'm pleased, and best of luck to you too with your excellent underwater pic! :thumbsup:

paperclip
05-18-2005, 07:48 AM
Aly, congratulations on finishing :applause: . Like many of the others, I've been watching this one for a while. It turned out really well--especially the goblin with his beer glass :D

I love the futuristic background, it provides great contrast for the 'fantasy' inspired goblin and his master..almost as if they are travelling through time and are stopping for a quick breather.
Good luck in the judging..:thumbsup:
theresa

lutzw
05-18-2005, 09:03 PM
Speaky, congrats for your work. Still think it's such an outstanding and funny approach. BTW: thx for your support at my thread.
Good luck for the voting and my best wishes,
:) <- Lutz

daadaa
05-18-2005, 09:10 PM
awsome pic!! love the goblins expression :D
gud luck!!

CoreyArtE
05-19-2005, 03:14 PM
Great job speaky you finaly finished! I love the atmospher and the unique design to the background the most. Congrats and goodluck!

artjunkie
05-19-2005, 11:01 PM
Love the quirky fantasy vibe I get from this one! Awesome stuff. Congrats!

Good luck in the judging!

Cheers!

THECLYKE
05-19-2005, 11:05 PM
I Love The Back Gound Man ...good Luck

xric7
05-21-2005, 01:34 AM
great and outstanding!!
congratulation.good luck.:applause: :thumbsup: :buttrock:

TheFirstAngel
05-21-2005, 08:57 PM
great and wonderfull finnish on a wonderfull work Jesse. loved it from the moment i found it, its not only masterly painted, its also fun ans very charming. great work, congrats on your great finnish and best of luck on the finals! you rock!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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