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Kirt
03-22-2005, 03:42 AM
Kirt Stanke has entered the Master and Servant 2D.

Challenge Page (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/masterandservant/view_entries.php?challenger=5732)

Latest Update: Coloring WIP: Some Details Start to Show Up ...
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1115454628_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1115454628_large.jpg)

Most of the work on this latest update is around the big guy's forward arm and the glow stick hanging from his belt.

You can see where I started on the gunner's face as well, but I wasn't happy with how that was turning out, so I moved onto the big guy.

11 days left and too much left to do. Hopefully my home computer doesn't choke on this file. I'll try to get some more done this weekend.

Kirt
03-22-2005, 03:46 AM
I haven't been able to complete a challenge since the Hapless Heroes theme. But, it's not going to stop me from trying. :D

No ideas for this one yet ... but, I'd like to take this opportunity to wish every luck on the challenge and to have fun! I can't wait to see the entries on this one. :thumbsup:

Squibbit
03-22-2005, 06:00 AM
yo kirt u just make anything like that goth mickey and you make a killing :thumbsup:

ace4016
03-22-2005, 06:06 AM
Good luck. Maybe sometime in the future I'll also join in the 2d threads, for now i'll learn form you guys.

Kirt
03-22-2005, 08:15 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111482926_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111482926_large.jpg)

OK ... my first idea was to create some sort of war machine relationship between my master and servant. The idea is that a big muscular 'thing' replaces the typical tank or personnel carrier machine.

It's a bit more mobile over rough terrain and could actually climb through airducts or up a ladder in interior environment warfare situations.

On the big guy's back would be a harness or some pouches that could carry the soldier's equiptment, supplies, ammo or additional weapons.

On his head sits the soldier's weapon of choice. Machinegun, howitzer, rocket launcher, whatever ...

duddlebug
03-22-2005, 08:40 AM
Haha... looks cool!!

getting my subscription in early... good to see you here!!

paperclip
03-22-2005, 08:42 AM
Hey Kirt... another one of us from the DSG...your pic is looking good so far! Are you going for the comedy slant? Could be fun!

Good luck to you!:thumbsup:

Kirt
03-22-2005, 09:02 AM
paperclip - Yeah, my entries are usually comedic. Although I'm not sure if this one is going to be of that genre. Still mushing ideas around in my head, so anything is possible at this point.

duddlebug - I'll be watching yours as well. Your Space Opera turned out really nice. Congrats (belatedly :blush: )!

ace4016 - "Learn by doing", I always say. Folks on this forum will be very helpful if you give it a shot.

Squibbit - Thanks man. I'll do my best. Beating the deadline is my biggest concern right now though. :D

Kyena
03-22-2005, 09:07 AM
awesome character ideas already! Looking forward to see this develope :)

AlyFell
03-22-2005, 09:14 AM
Oooh! Looking smashing already! :)

element5
03-22-2005, 09:15 AM
Nice start Kirt, reminiscent of the MasterBlaster characters of "Mad Max 3 (welcome to ThunderDome)" very cool :thumbsup:

Art2
03-22-2005, 09:18 AM
hee hee, looks cool! Big guy looks kind a helpful instead of like a servant tho. Bring out that whip!!

ms@zx
03-22-2005, 09:19 AM
doing great initially,.cute characters there~~keep it coming~~:)

kalemna
03-22-2005, 09:50 AM
welcome and have fun. Ho my good you have already started, :bounce:

MDN67
03-22-2005, 09:58 AM
good luck, your scretch Reminds me in person in mad max 3 the professor and the simple-minded:thumbsup:

NOOB!
03-22-2005, 11:09 AM
noice.can't wait to see more progress!!

ArtisticVisions
03-22-2005, 01:56 PM
Kirt's back! :D
Great concept; let's hope you can finish this time. :thumbsup:

Cerebr4l
03-22-2005, 02:50 PM
Looking cool

LEEBLEEB
03-22-2005, 02:57 PM
What a cute looking machinegun.:thumbsup:

The barrels end looks a bit heavier from the point of the equilibrium is placed, but it shouldn't matter all that much, It still looks like a cool idea.:)

MetasynMan
03-22-2005, 03:46 PM
Love the concept sketch, Kirt. This will be my first challenge here, so here's to hoping we both finish! :thumbsup:

walrus
03-22-2005, 04:35 PM
Nice sketch, Kirt. Great proportions and relationship. My one comment would be that both of their faces are somehow obscured, and you might want to consider revealing more of each to get a sense of how each feels about his relationship to the other. But they're just early sketches, plenty of time to refine...


...But don't take too much time! Finish this one this time!!! :-)

Looking forward to seeing mroe...

-mike

erilaz
03-22-2005, 09:29 PM
Good to see you on board Kirt! :D More power to the DSG!

PeterPuppet
03-22-2005, 09:31 PM
I love the idea. Good luck!

Virtuoso
03-22-2005, 09:32 PM
Hi Kirt........Well just dropping by to let you know I'll be watching......And looking forward to the show.....Nice start on that sketch,really like it,love the style and feel..........i'll be looking for more,best of luck to you,and may the Gods of creativity watch over you.......;) :arteest:

paulwdavidson
03-22-2005, 09:36 PM
Looking very funky............good luck, and get stuck in early.


Paul

JARhead
03-22-2005, 10:10 PM
Looking good as always, I love your sketch a lot

TheFirstAngel
03-23-2005, 12:46 AM
Looking great so far, and i like the fact he's holding him in manner of a "servant" with the "simpathy aspect, and not just being misinterpretated as a slave master relationship. Nice start. WIsh ya much fun and best luck

Tommy Lee
03-23-2005, 05:23 AM
Hi Kirt! Love the concept... good luck and I hope you can finish this one:thumbsup:

Cheerz

Tom

Kirt
03-23-2005, 06:01 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111561302_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111561302_large.jpg)

Started working out the details of the servant's harness today and I just got carried away.

Not quite sure if I'm going to make any adjustments to the character itself, yet. But the gun helmet and harness will be pretty much like this.

Started this in Sketchbook and then moved over to Photoshop. About 4 hours total time on this today.

Squibbit
03-23-2005, 06:08 AM
nice, i so like the colors and all the detail.

can't get out of my head the image of that
big dood's head shaking and saliva flyin all
around like from a bulldog's mouth when the
minigun starts blasting away...arrrgh

igorstshirts
03-23-2005, 06:28 AM
Subscriber here... Lookin' nice already... Please finish this time!

ace4016
03-23-2005, 06:29 AM
This, I like. Nice concept and the harnest on the beast is great. Wonder how the master takes care of his nukem 2k: a wash twice a week, hot wax every 2 weeks, and nothing but premium for this bad boy.

paulwdavidson
03-23-2005, 06:35 AM
I like it.........It might be worth looking on the net for reference of classic choppers etc might give you some lovely little details to add.


Paul

SheepFactory
03-23-2005, 07:10 AM
subscribed , love the concept.

Art2
03-23-2005, 08:06 AM
Looking great Kirt!
Maybe add some mindcontrol device of some kind, I dunno... :)

NOOB!
03-23-2005, 08:54 AM
looks excellent!

Shaykai
03-23-2005, 10:07 AM
I absolutely love it! I'm not sure if you were just adding a little joke to you're concept with the metallica thing, but i really think that is a great idea! If you can somehow portray that he is listening to master of puppets by metallica then I think it will add a lot to the image. Maybe a master of puppets T-shirt or tattoo or something?

Shaykai

Adamos
03-23-2005, 10:47 AM
Yo Kirt!

Great recognizable style! Hope you last until the final image this time! That would inspire a bunch of us!

ChrRambow
03-23-2005, 11:04 AM
woohoo .. i must subscribe here ... great work on the concept ... as always :thumbsup:

Jezzarts
03-23-2005, 11:44 AM
I love this!! as long as this guy doesn't start headbanging! :buttrock: Best of luck

Enayla
03-23-2005, 11:47 AM
Wow, this is looking wonderful, Kirt! I love the designs - I wish I could do little details and gadgets like that :D

Lordgobbo
03-23-2005, 12:42 PM
Great work so far. I love the attention you put in every tiny detail in this early stage of the challenge. I will follow your work with attention.

ms@zx
03-23-2005, 02:03 PM
whoa~~that looks really nice kirt..i love the idea of those harley-kind-of-bike design attached on the big guys head!!impressive:thumbsup:

Rudeone
03-23-2005, 02:07 PM
hehe cool idea kirt, I'll keep an eye on this one, I have a feeling this one is going to be great

OKMER
03-23-2005, 02:07 PM
H WOWWW!great style and concept!!and like squibbit,can't wait to see these guys in action!!!he,he!!!Good luck man!!!Be'll hanging around:bounce:

Ilikesoup
03-23-2005, 03:01 PM
Further proof that loud music leads to violence. . . :D

I'm picturing the master as a short, gun happy Yosemite Sam type. The brute stomps on a guy and thrashes him around, then lifts him over his head so the master can fill him full of holes.

The hood ornament cracks me up, but I keep thinking there should be a gun sight there. Maybe if the brute were a hunchback, the hood ornament could be on his head and the master would be unaffected. :shrug: Either way, it's another great Stanke idea and I can't wait for more sketches.

Tranchefeux
03-23-2005, 03:01 PM
Hi,
Very pretty starting, good luck for the continuation.

ralphmanning
03-23-2005, 04:50 PM
Very nice start, good luck to you.

Kirt
03-23-2005, 08:28 PM
Whoa! So many new replies ... here we go! :bounce:

Squibbit - Saliva ... saliva is good. I'll put a little bit o' spittle there for you.

igorstshirts - I'll do my best to get this one done. I'm afraid the other stuff I was working on is going to have to suffer for it though.

ace4016 - The nukem 2K is referring to the weapon and it's detachable/interchangeable. The big guy, when not harnessed, would probably just go wallow in a watering hole somewhere to clean up. A good hosing down would work in a pinch too.

Paul Davidson - Good idea. I watch American Chopper on the Discovery channel, so I have some basic construction ideas in mind. Little details and technicalities won't hurt though. I love the details. :D

Sheep Factory - Thank you.

Art2 - Mind control seems too autonomous (sp?). I want the big guy to have some sort of loyalty or knowledgable purpose to the gunner. If I put on some sort of mind control, you loose that Master & Slave feeling and the big guy just turns into a lifeless machine.

NOOB! - Rockin!

Shaykai - Yeah, just messing around with the image and adding a little character in an otherwise dull ortho view. I dunno about using (TM) material, but I'll see if I can't allude to it somehow.

Adamos - I'm determined to put off everything else until this one is done. I've missed too many challenges lately. And ... those prizes look all too fantastic to not give it a shot.

KoRn_ART - YeeeeeeeHHHAAAAAAAA!!!

Jezzarts - Hmmm ... I wonder if I could submit an animated GIF to the challenge site?

Enayla - Linda (I just can't get used to your user ID ... you'll always be Linda to me), I think every artist has a wish that they're talents were capable of. I wish I could paint realistic figures like you can. Oh well, grass is always greener or some other dumb cliche' ... :argh:

Lordgobbo - It wasn't intentional, I got carried away with the details on this one. My bad.

ms@zx - I dunno, it may need some training wheels still. Thanks!

Rudeone - Much appreciated.

OKMER - Next sketches should be some rough action poses. I'm trying to lay out my composition early so I have time for details, details, details.

Ilikesoup - I put the hood ornament there as a fashionable gun sight. Although, it's not really needed. Just point and kill. I thought about the hunched over approach as well, but liked the head mounted gun better because it's funnier looking. I think a weapon mounted on a bulldog-type character has been done way too frequently.

Tranchefeux - Thanks.

Xeophex - :thumbsup:


Sorry, for some of the short responses. I just don't know what to say when someone says, "Cool", "I like it!", "Totally wicked!" or something like that. Uhm ... "thanks"? I'm glad you're enjoying the work. However, I still consider myself a hobbiest and student. Any helpful criticism and comments about technique would really be appreciated.

I'll have my next sketch(es) up later this evening. :wip:

Cerebr4l
03-23-2005, 08:32 PM
Lookin good man, keep it up!

Kirt
03-24-2005, 12:51 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111629083_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111629083_large.jpg)

I had this really rough sketch of the character's poses last night. I thought I'd post it up now since I'm currently putting in detail linework over this image.

So, this is a sort of WIP towards the "line art" milestone.

Gord-MacDonald
03-24-2005, 05:02 AM
Cool start - the slave looks like a big sumo wrestler :D
Good luck

Gord

Kirt
03-24-2005, 05:41 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111646473_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111646473_large.jpg)

It's coming along. I don't know if I'll get much more done tonight, so I'm posting what I have so far.

I've re-drawn his left foot about 3 times now and it's just not looking correct. I may have to try this one again because the foot keeps blocking the big guy's face.

If anyone wants to attempt a paint over to help me out with the foot, I wouldn't mind. I just can't get the angle right.

Zombie Ninja
03-24-2005, 06:06 AM
Great job on the line work so far. I am loving the character design! Looks like your having a blast! I am looking forward to your updates, Good luck! :thumbsup:

paperclip
03-24-2005, 06:10 AM
I tried it out & flipped it. Not sure if this is better?

:shrug: http://img235.exs.cx/img235/194/paintover7mj.jpg

monsitj
03-24-2005, 06:45 AM
wow!man! how can i miss this thread! I really like your stlye , dynamic , my suggestion ,is the direction of gunner is direct to what ? or where? (sorry for bad english) maybe add a little perspective to gun ? just my 2c.
good luck!

ace4016
03-24-2005, 07:06 AM
I have to agree with Monsit. If you turn the pilot/driver/master a bit more towards the same direction as the facing of the beast thing, maybe the foot might get out of the way of the beast's face. The gun seems more manuverable the the seat/saddle so the gun could probably still point in the same vicinity.

Kirt
03-24-2005, 07:10 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111651828_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111651828_large.jpg)

OK ... nevermind

I kept fidgeting with it until I got this latest result. Feet are fine, but now I have to work out the body of the big guy again.

I just noticed that his forward arm and leg are on the same side of his body. It's just unnatural. Hehehehehe

That's my last update for tonight. See ya' tomorrow.

Kirt
03-24-2005, 07:18 AM
paperclip - Thanks for the paintover. But, as you can see ... I figured it out. Your help is still appreciated. :thumbsup:

monsitj & ace4016 - Eventually, there will be something on the left side of the image that he's shooting at. So bear with me for a bit. There is a little twist of the gun so we're looking at the top-back end of it. I was trying to position the gunner so it looks like he's about falling out of his seat trying to shoot something to his right. It may look better when I add the seatback.

duddlebug
03-24-2005, 07:21 AM
haha... i really like the perspective and the pose on the big fella!!

So is this your final piece...?? everyone's flyin' along!!

Kirt
03-24-2005, 07:26 AM
doodlebug - Yeah, I'm not going to mess around with a lot of different concepts this time around. If I stick to my first idea, I may just finish this on time. No procrastination on this challenge. I'm going gung-ho until it's done.

I'll rest easy when it's all done. :D

duddlebug
03-24-2005, 07:33 AM
Good plan Kirt... i'd like to say i'm gonna do something similar but then i get carried away and before i know it, i'm off with the faeries drawing irrelevant gumpf for my own amusement!!

Good luck for this piece!

Mysterious X
03-24-2005, 09:25 AM
Good plan Kirt... i'd like to say i'm gonna do something similar but then i get carried away and before i know it, i'm off with the faeries drawing irrelevant gumpf for my own amusement!!

Good luck for this piece!

still remember your GSO WIP...I think you had the most concept sketches in that competition...but great job you did and too bad you didn't continue...wish you all the best...and Kirt..this is just great..I wonder how will the enviroment be ?

NOOB!
03-24-2005, 09:32 AM
man its so hard to keep up with everything!

looking great so far

OKMER
03-24-2005, 09:55 AM
This is getting better and better!A pleasure to pass by.Maybe it could be cool also if there was some kind of survival kit near the gunner,with food or a drink(just like these bycicle runners have.In case he has to stay longtime on the back of this guy.

Velinov
03-24-2005, 09:59 AM
Nice concept. I don't know your way of painting but it looks that your first image is beter then others. Maybe through the process of drawing your final image will achieved thе emotion and the freedom of expression that was presenced in your concept sketck. I Hope so. :)


MY "Master and servant" thread (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=221933)

www.velinov.com (http://www.velinov.com/)

Adamos
03-24-2005, 10:00 AM
Kirt!

I thought it was rather funny when the big guys face was blocked! too bad for me

(you know when someone' tryin to act though but simply get's cropped off or blocked by something else on a photo or somethin', that's funny ...)

or maybe not

just had a thought there

love it the way it is now too...

i'm still constantly checking this thread!

go Kirt!

cheers

dmonk
03-24-2005, 12:02 PM
Wow! I really like how this is turning out!Great work!:thumbsup:

Lordgobbo
03-24-2005, 01:09 PM
I agree with Velinov it's true that when the face of the big guy was blocked it give a little "plus". This make me feel that this picture was taken really in action. But from the compositon point of view it's very bad to hide the face of one of the main caracter.

So I don't know what to think.

Anyway your technique is very good and I hope to see some great updates soon.

whiterat
03-24-2005, 01:22 PM
I like it very much, the idea and the progress.....what is hard to me is the expresion of the big
guy....is lost down there....maybe with the color it brings up...



Miguel Pizzo
my contest thread:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=222467

ChrRambow
03-24-2005, 02:29 PM
It's coming along very well ... i like the way how he is looking up to the Gunner :D

digital-bobert
03-24-2005, 02:58 PM
neat ideas! good luck my friend

paperclip
03-24-2005, 05:42 PM
It's looking great. If I may ask, how exactly are you doing the artwork? the pen tool?

Kirt
03-24-2005, 10:51 PM
Mysterious X - Thanks for the nice comments on my sadly unfinished GSO entry. I'm not 100% sure what I'll be doing with the environment here. Maybe a nice jungle setting. Dunno yet ... but that's how it usually goes with me. Character first, other stuff as needed. :D

OKMER - A thought was to have the big guy snacking on some Oreos. But then I started in on this action pose. Maybe if I finish early ...

Velinov - Really? I thought the first one was rather boring to look at. Hopefully, this starts to show some life soon.

Adamos, Lordgobbo & miquel - I didn't really like that his face was blocked, but I know what you're saying. Hopefully with some color it won't look like he's lost under there anymore.

KoRn_ART - He's supposed to be looking forward, but that's not really apparant since he has no pupils. :D

paperclip - Weeeeeeeee! A "how-to" question! :D OK, I'm doing this all in Photoshop. Right now I'm working pretty low rez and probably should have up'd it a bit before I started with the lines. I'm planning on painting over most of the lines anyway, so maybe it's not an issue.

Actual size at this stage is 699x891 and 72dpi. I'm not sure why I have that size ... I think I cropped it once. But it doesn't really matter because I'll be pasting the finished linework into an A4 size when I'm done. 72dpi is too low really. I should be at 150 by now, but I like being able to see how the whole thing is coming together without having to zoom out on my PC.

I'm using the default "hard round 3 pixel" brush with the "Other Dynamics" set with opacity control set for pen pressure. The color is 393939 (around 75% black). I've used this setting many times before because I think it accurately reproduces a pencil line similar to what I would get in my standard sketchbooks.

paperclip
03-24-2005, 11:00 PM
Thanks for expending your knowledge! I'll definitely be using your advice in the future.

BTW: I really like the concept, have you thought about color schemes yet?

jmBoekestein
03-24-2005, 11:19 PM
Wow Kirt!

really dynamic design you have there, good luck with the large geeser!

Kirt
03-25-2005, 12:44 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111715053_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111715053_large.jpg)

So my direction is all over the place right now. I just started drawing another pose for the big guy and this one ended up quite subdued compared to the previous action shot.

I started thinking about background and other elements to this after getting this pose down and here's what I'm thinking ... tell me if it's stupid.

The big guy and the gunner are a "wishful-thinking-daydream" set of characters. Like when you're at work trying to do your job and go home, but your boss keeps interrupting you with yet another pointless meeting or degrading task for you to do.

I could place these two odd characters in an office setting and the big guy could be throttling the bosses' neck while the gunner shoots up the office and computers.

If the image showed this scene would the master and slave relationship seem obvious enough?

It's odd ... but I'm at work right now and it's what I was thinking at the time. Maybe I'll do something else ...

I really need a vacation. Heheheheh.

ArtisticVisions
03-25-2005, 12:51 AM
Man, the characters of your sketches always have a sense of humor and style - I love it! :applause:

Gamoron
03-25-2005, 01:12 AM
Hey Kirt. Nice line art so far. I agree with the post you just made. I'm not crazy about the whole office setting. I think personally for this that it would be a dead end. Could be wrong though. I think you'd be better to go with an in the midst of battle, war campaing setting. And I think what the big guy lacks is that he isn't posed in a way that suggests he's all that bulky. He's this big Gorilla like guy, but he's standing like he's this very thin wif-like person. Maybe you render him as hunched more and he walks at times like a gorilla using his knuckles. Maybe his legs could be in a spread "horse" stance and bent to give the viewer a better sense of his weight. The soldier has a great feel though. Like he's really enjoying what he does.

:beer:

Kirt
03-25-2005, 03:26 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111724774_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111724774_large.jpg)

Yeah, I think you're right. How's this one? Too in your face?

Kirt
03-25-2005, 06:19 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111735156_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111735156_large.jpg)

OK ... I think I have this worked out now. Back to line work.

cgkrusty
03-25-2005, 07:43 AM
I'd love to see a larger harness / backpack on this guy... sort of jostling around. It just seems he could carry more weight than the guy and the gun. Your colour sketch of the harness was awesome, but I think the image begs for bigger and wackier!

Awesome stuff so far!

Kirt
03-25-2005, 07:49 AM
cgkrusty - Hmmm ... the big guy seems to have gotten larger over the week. :D You're right, he looks unburdened now. I'll see if I can't bulk up his equipment and the gun. I was beginning to dislike the gun anyway. The hood ornament on the revolving barrel doesn't make sense. It would just spin around. :argh:

ace4016
03-25-2005, 07:50 AM
Concepts are looking good. For the scenery, maybe you can add something cruched under the big guys feet, just to show he can plow through anything. Just a small suggestion.

ElFuego
03-25-2005, 08:10 AM
WwoWw :) Looks good so far. I just wondered if master and slave "roles" are a bit mixed with that latest linedrawing. The "bigone" looks like he's done with serving and wants to be the master :) But then again it's the ultimate myth; breaking free from tyranny!

nice one dude!

CoreyArtE
03-25-2005, 08:16 AM
Haha, action packed sweetness.

AirbORn
03-25-2005, 08:23 AM
Great design! I like the scale between the two characters. Seems like everything is going along smoothly so far. I am surprised how fast everyone is working this time around during the challenge. Take care, I will check back from time to time.

bigjoe
03-25-2005, 03:05 PM
Awesome truely awesome sketch! Mebbe try a lower angle to make the size of the big guy more dramatic. Keep it up!

walrus
03-25-2005, 03:24 PM
Kirt! Looking good so far! I definitely like the big guy moving than just standing still. Have you considerred making him run more towards the left? Right now the sillhouette doesn't read very well around the lesga, and perhaps more of a run in the same direction as the gunner is pointing will help make the legs clearer. Then you might also be able to see more of the junk on his back like Ken suggested, too! Anyhow, can't wait to see where it goes from here, nice work!

-mike

OKMER
03-25-2005, 03:32 PM
I think walrus has a good point there..Maybe it could be cool to see them run awy from a hilarious horde of soldiers on their heels.With the little guy hitting in the mass that follows them,and the big guy preparing to make a jump over some kind of cliff or something.
Just n suggestion.
Great anyway,really nice comicly drawing
(sorry for my english)..hy,we should have this phrase in our smiley's ,nan?:D
LAter

ldgree
03-25-2005, 03:46 PM
Wonderful project here.. i like a lot..
Very nice colors and sketches

Matteus
03-25-2005, 03:53 PM
Really like the last one! Full of energy and movement. This is one of the top 10 projects here in my opinion.

Can we see some shots fired? Pleease

W-I-L
03-25-2005, 03:56 PM
just discovered thsi thread...excellent stuff. can not wait see how it goes.

arLutiK
03-25-2005, 05:37 PM
Wow !

Nice work

Good luck to you :)

Art2
03-25-2005, 06:41 PM
Hey Kirt looking great!
Here's an idea. How 'bout they run through a flok of enemys, the big guy grabbing the poor souls, holding them up, so that the little guy can blow their heads off.
There's the Servant serving his Master :D

I would let the gunner put his weight more behind the gun, if you know what I mean.
What you have now is that it looks like his body is pointing to the left, but his arms and gun are pointing to the right. It just doesn't look right to me, considering the kickback of a gatlinggun. Also the concept you have now is that the gunner is controling his direction with his bodyweight, so I'd put more emphasis to that.

You can shift the ornament to the middle of the gun, so it doesn't stand in the way of the rotating barrels.

I really love your concept man! :thumbsup:

Ilikesoup
03-25-2005, 07:23 PM
Hey Kirt looking great!
Here's an idea. How 'bout they run through a flok of enemys, the big guy grabbing the poor souls, holding them up, so that the little guy can blow their heads off.
There's the Servant serving his Master :D


Dude, I already said that on page 4. :p

Kirt - You had one sketch with the monster showing his teeth and looking up at the master and I think it showed the strongest Master/Servant relationship yet in this thread. The monster knows his job, but the master is so self absorbed in shooting anything that moves that he's getting in the monster's way. I liked OKMER's idea about preparing to jump over a chasm -- the monster would really have to focus on that and if the master would just sit still FOR ONE COTTON PICKING MINUTE. . . !! :scream:

Helpful hint: Try making machine gun noises as you're drawing.

Mordalles
03-25-2005, 08:03 PM
wow, looking great so far! great characters!

Kirt
03-25-2005, 08:33 PM
Grrrr ... you're all going to convince me to redraw this again. I was just getting happy with the current pose, but now I want to have him holding up a victim so the gunner can blow him to bits. Or maybe even, tossing up a handfull of creatures and the gunner shooting them out of the air. Damn, back to the drawing board.

And yes ... Ilikesoup suggested it first. Sorry, Art2. :D

Oh, Ilikesoup ... "brrrrrrrppppppprprprprprprtttt"

igorstshirts
03-25-2005, 08:59 PM
I like how the gunner is leaning back and pulling on the gun alot... I'd like to see the big guy jumping over something, freeze them in mid-air. Might add some action and dynamicism to them. My 2c.

Kirt
03-26-2005, 12:42 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111801349_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111801349_large.jpg)

I dunno ... tell me what you think of this latest. This was the best of 3 or 4 tries to get the pose. I don't think I can make this work without blocking too much of the gunner.

I tried one from the back side so you could see more of the gunner, but then I couldn't get any expression on the big guy. His whole head gets obscured.

I'll play around with it some more, but as of right now I'm partial to the previous pose.

Art2
03-26-2005, 12:58 AM
... maybe I should read all the replys... but you already have 7 pages!
Soup took that idea from my head, when I was asleep ;P

Why not throw the victim with his left arm? That way you can see the face of the big guy.

Kirt
03-26-2005, 01:04 AM
Why not throw the victim with his left arm? That way you can see the face of the big guy.Then his right arm would block the gear and gunner. I feel this is a loose-loose situation. :shrug:

Art2
03-26-2005, 01:19 AM
Not necessarily. Go to your boss, grab him by the throat, now try to throw him as high in the air as possible. You'll notice that you'll bent your knees, swing your free hand into the air and the throwing hand, with the victim, will go backwards or to the ground. When you throw him into the air your free hand will automatically go the opposite direction, backwards to the ground and you'll stretch your body to the max.
The gunner can still be seen I think, but you'll probably lose some gears/pouches. But not much.

I could be wrong, but it doesn't hurt to try it out :D

Kirt
03-26-2005, 01:34 AM
Rats! My boss already left for the evening. I'll find a suitable proxy and give it a shot. :twisted:

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm having difficulties with this pose idea. But, I haven't given up yet. Stay tuned ... I'll post my best results later this evening.

BatskyStarman
03-26-2005, 02:03 AM
I think that they are both too extreme as far as what you are trying to convey. One is a bit too calm, the other a bit too extreme. If maybe you could find a middle ground, or downtone the extreme sketch (latest).

Good luck!!

monsitj
03-26-2005, 02:40 AM
don't mean to frustrate you, I like your image in post number81 but the latest post is very dynamic , but right arm of the big guy seem to block the orther detail!

teknotek83
03-26-2005, 02:59 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111724774_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111724774_large.jpg)



I think this one works much better. As other people have stated, your latest sketch has too much of the creature's face being covered. I think that's too big of a sacrifice to be making for such cool designs. Just giving you my two cents. :-D Good luck!

newcenturydsn
03-26-2005, 03:28 AM
looking good kirt,...progress forth coming!!

Kirt
03-26-2005, 05:01 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111816891_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111816891_large.jpg)

(without gunner) This is an overhead shot, which I really didn't want to do since it makes the characters look weaker. But, this angle does allow a greater view of the gunner's seat and equipment without the big guy blocking anything with his arms.

Don't like this pose ... keep trying. :p

Kirt
03-26-2005, 08:11 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111828260_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1111828260_large.jpg)

Well, I'm going to go back to my other pose and work from there. I tried and tried but nothing seemed to work out for me. I still like the pose where he's running at the viewer and I think I can work this into an interesting composition.

I made a few tweeks to the last one ... mainly the throwing arm, backpack, gun and minor foot adjustments on the gunner.

So, now I go back to finishing up my lines and in between trying to design a creature hoard to attack them.

I still like the forest jungle background idea and I'll probably rough some of that in here soon too.

I'd hate to get to far into the characters and then have problems with composition and layout with the background. Although, I do have a loose image plan in mind. Should be interesting ... up until the point where I mess all this up with my over-saturated color palette. :p

paperclip
03-26-2005, 08:30 AM
I love the shape of the big fella but right now he looks as if he's falling over to the right. his back leg needs to be bracing his weight but if you want to fix it , you can think about how much balance his right arm is contributing. I love your composition though!

monsitj
03-26-2005, 08:57 AM
In my opinion , I think the gunner is perfect post and his detail, clothing , gun , are great . something that u can improve is big guy , his right arm direct to where? maybe u can add weapon or something to bigguy for melee battle such as blade ,axe ,
great line art! and show us your color pallete please:thumbsup:

MDN67
03-26-2005, 10:22 AM
nice draw with an impressiv action, i wait the continuation, good work:thumbsup:

Kirt
03-26-2005, 10:53 AM
paperclip - Nice observation, but it should look correct when I get the environment in there. I've angled it for dramatic effect and to eliminate the horizontal being created at the top of the gun (still may have to tilt it some more ... at least the gun). Thanks anyway.

monsitj - The arm is out like that because he'll be throwing some victims up into the line of fire. I don't want to give him any weapons because he wouldn't be as much a servant to the guy up top with the big gun. Colors will come in time. I need to get all my lines down first. I like to know where everything is before I start painting lights, darks and hues.

blackdragoncg
03-26-2005, 01:49 PM
Hey cool concept good luck with the rest of it! :thumbsup:

sonicstrawbery
03-26-2005, 02:00 PM
Cool idea and characters... i really like the first pose, more dynamic and good sense of weight ! Can't wait to see more about them... Nice work as usual :thumbsup:

Supervlieg
03-26-2005, 03:35 PM
Nice pose you got there. I like the line weighting. Will you be keeping that in the final work, or will it be without lines?

Some minor things:

The gunners legs seem to be a bit off. Maybe the left leg needs more foreshortening or the right leg needs to be shorter. Cant quite put my finger on it.

From the perspective it seems the fist (on the left arm) of the giant could be bigger.

Right now it would seem they are pretty equal partners. The big guy looks like the grumpy sidekick more then a servant. The guy on top is looking like he's having too much fun to be in serious control. Maybe a whip or leach can make the relation seem more unbalanced. Just some thoughts.

Good luck with the Competition!

NOOB!
03-26-2005, 03:38 PM
the whole concept is excellent,i do agree with the previous crits though.

Goro
03-26-2005, 08:45 PM
Great concept kirt! Subscribed!!

eclipson
03-26-2005, 08:59 PM
looks very comic, love the characters, go go go.....:)

SheepFactory
03-27-2005, 11:29 PM
thats friggin inspirational man!

jmBoekestein
03-28-2005, 07:33 PM
Really love the way you get the energy in there!!!

That big guy's hilarious!!!:thumbsup:

lanedaughtry
03-28-2005, 11:34 PM
There are touches of design brilliance all over this one.

With the hood emblem and rider them you have going here I thought it would be cool to have some classic chrome can headlights mounted a little bit underneath and to both sides of the mini gun barrel.

-L

anilduran
03-28-2005, 11:41 PM
it's really very fantastic work man...but we are still waiting next steps .....lets do it.....:bounce:

Kirt
03-29-2005, 07:55 AM
Supervlieg - I'm not seeing the size/perspective problems that you mentioned, but I'll double check every measurement that I can and make adjustments where needed. Looks fine to me though. The master/servant relationship should be pretty clear with the simple fact that one carries the other on his shoulders/back. I don't want to add too much of the "chains and wips" mindset to this image. The big guy is more like a horse or ox to the gunner. This would have fit the "beast of burden" challenge awhile back, I suppose.

Hopefully, with the other scene elements I can swing the mood back to the master/servant relationship. I don't want to stray too far away from the theme, but I like to try a different approach to the theme in all of my challenge entries.

lane_daughtry - I think I'm still in concept mode on the gun. It's definately not complete "as is" in the last drawing. I don't like the big barrel design and I'll probably try some other designs to bring in more "classic car or chopper" elements to the weapon. I do like the 50's inspired analog guages and handlebars. I'll try to bring those out a little more so they're more obvious. Thanks for the feedback.

anil6tr - Sorry, had to do the family thing over the Easter weekend. I'll have some more updates this week sometime. Promise.

jmBoekestein
03-29-2005, 02:00 PM
So I gather you're not happy with the previous version, because I was under the impression that you had worked out the pose and everything!

Good luck working it out!:)

Cerebr4l
03-29-2005, 02:36 PM
Great pose! I can really sense the motion.

Kirt
04-01-2005, 09:30 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1112351416_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1112351416_large.jpg)

Haven't updated in awhile, sorry. Got busy at work. Hopefully, that's all behind me for a couple of weeks because I need to get back to this challenge.

So, this is where I'm at now. Slowly making my way over the rough sketch I had earlier and refining my line drawing in preparation for color.

Well ... maybe I have a way to go for color still. I need to concept some creatures for these two to fight and get some sort of background going. I always hated doing backgrounds, but I think this is going to need some sort of environment otherwise it's going to look dull.

NOOB!
04-01-2005, 10:07 AM
excellent update man!

calisto-lynn
04-01-2005, 10:13 AM
great inking skills,man:thumbsup:

nebezial
04-01-2005, 10:21 AM
not the face! not the face!.. SMASH... great work!:scream:

Xtronik
04-01-2005, 10:25 AM
Clean line style !
Use different brush sizes to give more clear the forms
very nice work!

sonicstrawbery
04-01-2005, 10:43 AM
Sweet ! I love the details you put like the rear view mirror, the little head at the front (like on cars :D)... Keep coming man that's great :love:

Kraull
04-01-2005, 02:43 PM
I really like your characters! The funny thing is that the guy on top of the beast looks really comfortable and in security... That's weird and cool! :D

W-I-L
04-01-2005, 02:56 PM
loving the idea..... and libe art looks great. gun is much better than when i last checked.

Zephyri
04-01-2005, 03:09 PM
Wow! That line art is looking amazing... and there is a very real sense of weight and movement that both beliveable and dynamic. Your attention to detail and thinking about what would really work impresses me greatly, I'm sure it will make for an amazing finished image.

fooxoo
04-01-2005, 05:06 PM
Thumbs up! Nice movement. Keep workin! Looking good this far.

tilite
04-02-2005, 04:48 AM
ok so i got some reading material for u... lol (just my input)

well if your going for comedic value u have to do the office idea that halarious... its like the dream of 90% of the working class to ride a sumo to work while he destroys the boss' next u destory the equipment... its awesome.

but.. if i understand uve gone for a more fantasy driven war theme... which im glad. u mentioned the simalarities of ur beast to an APC or tank, in both those circumstances there is both a gunner and drive(along with many others) bu tmy point is they are seperate minds doing seperate things. i think u should mirrior that im ur image... have the beast doing something else to the gunner.

the most dramatic pose u have created was the one where the beast is running towards the camera and leaning in the direction... from the sketch the feel is tenfold more powerful because u begin to sense that the beast is such an overwellming force, he is soooo heavy and yet so agile. that sketch also shows off the gunner is a great pose. i do think the gunner should be lifted a bit (get to that in a second).

because this beast is such an overwelliming force i would love to see him plow threw creatures knocking them over and just randomly shoving them as he runs like they are just irrelivant beings.

with the beast running it is extreemly poweful and creates a sense of emergency... i think the feeling of emergency is just what would seal the deal for this image. i was thinking to get that the creatures attacking the M&S would have to be endless and w\out weaponry and only 3 to 4ft tall (i hvnt quite got an idea for the location/background but i hope this opens alot of possibilties).
so the reason the gunner should be lifted is that the gun need to angle to the ground more... because the creatures are trying to scramble all over them and there are so many he needs to blow them away at the last second. i think to emphasise the ergency this needs to happen.

now in terms of the gun u have some brilliant ideas. that original gun sight was wicked and the 50's inspiration is awesome. however with this whole ergency ive been talking about the gun design has taken a step back in my opinion. it now looks more like an RPG a slow firing type weapon, although they do more destruction this is not what u need when ur shooting creatures just a few ft from u. the chaingun type design was great.. u where right it did need a lil more inspiration (the 50's is great.. lol... love it) but its that type of weaponry that u would need in this type of combat.. even an assult rifle where the cartiges shoot red hot into the air (could be wuite a nice effect).

ok i better stop here i got a lil carried away... sorry i didnt give u my input earlier. lol

great work tho:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Art2
04-02-2005, 07:07 AM
Overweight, naked, big, hairy (no doubt sweaty) monster... :eek: please give him pants... ... :D

Velinov
04-02-2005, 07:18 AM
What's happened with you'r eyes. Maybe you need some rest. :) Otherwise the image looks
just great and it's going to be a nice entry if you finished is as you have begin. I hope that
you anderstand my every word. Gooooood luck mate!!!



http://farfolina.pochta.ru/death.jpg (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=221933)

bdblok
04-02-2005, 11:17 AM
hi!

great image! it looks awesome, and the concept was really clever.

i would like to see some light-armor on the giant, as said he looks a little too naked (for combat :))

i also liked the minigun much better than the current (rocket?) gun!

keep going!

gl!

tilite
04-02-2005, 12:30 PM
u might be interested in this post... then again uve probably already seen it

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=72005

bdblok just brought it up... armour.
i was going to mention that erlier... but i didnt and im glad i didnt the more i think about armour the more it comes together and the less he needs it. keep his clothing the way it is i say... oh and update soon :bounce: :thumbsup:

am7
04-02-2005, 12:42 PM
OOooh, excellent calmn flow in your concept! :) I'll keep an eye on this, curious on how it will develop!

Kirt
04-05-2005, 08:10 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1112688640_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1112688640_large.jpg)

GAH! 6 weeks to go ... I better hustle. Still have a long way to go but it's getting there. I've put some finishing touches on the line art for the characters.

Additional details may be added as I see fit when I'm doing colors. I do that sometimes ... don't panic. :D

Kirt
04-05-2005, 08:30 AM
And a lot of crits since I updated last ... let's see if I can't answer a few. :D

Wtronik - I wish I were that skilled with a brush. Unfortunately, my hand shakes terribly when I work with a Wacom. I don't know if that's an age thing or just an unfortunate side effect of looking one place while drawing in another. If I ever get a tablet PC or Cintiq then I'll know for sure if I'm just too damn old for this type of work. :D

Kraull - Great! I was hoping that the gunner gave a comfortable and relaxed vibe with his pose. My idea was to put all the stress onto the Servant and have the Master pretty much going along for the wild ride.

tilite - OMG such a long post ... :eek: I think I have your ideas covered on about 90% of what I want to do with this image so hang in there for more updates. About the mini-gun though ... I just didn't want to do it because it seems like a frequently used weapon in sci-fi themed images. Take a look at mecha, personel carriers, drop ships, whatever and I'm sure you'll find that the mini-gun is so over used. I think the Nukem 2K could be a rapid fire weapon even though it doesn't look as functionally fast as the mini-gun.

Think of the Nukem as a 4 barrelled rapid fire laser turrent you'd see on a space battle cruiser. That's what I had in mind with this design. I hope it makes more sense when I add the gun blasts to the image.

Art2 - No pants.

bdblok - No armor, either. I feel it would really cover up the form of the character and after drawing the big chubby guy a few times, I'm really liking how he has a sense of power and mass without the armor. I was debating on giving his skin a tough scale-like appearance, but I think I may just go with a thick blubbery type skin like on a whale or shark.

Besides, the enemies they are going to be fighting will most probably be not as dangerous as a space marine or other heavily armed assailant. I'm thinking some over-sized grubs or insect type things.

tilite (again) - Yeah, I saw Steven's image and was heavily pushing the Admins to use it as an inspirational image for the challenge. Aside from the big guy with another person riding on it's shoulders ... what does it have to do with my image? Inspiration? Yeah, I wish I had Steven's talent. Comparison? I don't see much similarities. :shrug:

and everyone else - Thank you for your comments.

Now I get back to work on background and enemies. :wip:

tilite
04-05-2005, 10:07 AM
hahaha blubbery skin.... thats mad. i always pictured this dude like an aqua blue of green or even gray. what was ur intention? i had a question about the current pose... is he actually slightly airbourne in this?? i think that u could get a little bit more power out of this guy if his rear foor was actually in contact with the ground, i was thinking just curling his toes up so as if he is pushing out of the blocks (starting line) and then later on he could sink into the dirt or even a lil pile of it could for a lil pile behind his foot.

about the weapon i think it will work quite nicely now if u can get those blasts right!:arteest:

so something i brought up before (u may have answered and if u have apologies)... are u going to raise him so he can lower his aim?

ok tell me to shutup this has got to be annoying...lol

all the best i have to stress... i love this concept

element5
04-05-2005, 01:33 PM
Man that is some awesome lineart, It can only get better with colour :)

Tommy Lee
04-05-2005, 03:34 PM
Sorry for posting so late. Absolutly love that piece, The Perspective, especially the forshortening is excellent. Also the Lines, I love it when an artist is able to put dynamic into a piece without even a touch of lighting,... just the use of line weighting!

Even the "armorlessness"(<--is that a word?) is not realistic, it doesn't take anything away from the image. Quiet the opposit,... Makes the servantaspect even more powerfull. Disrespect of it,s health, so to say.

Way to go my friend:thumbsup:

Cheerz

Tom

bdblok
04-05-2005, 04:46 PM
hi again! :)

ok that belt makes up for armor!! :)

have you thought about tattoos/markings/scars of some kind on the beast?
and i saw this guy red/yellow-ish, with green eyes :)

keep going!

Kirt
04-05-2005, 10:09 PM
tilite - Yeah, he's a bit airborn in this pose. I think I'm going to add a little splash of mud or something under that foot to show the force of movement rather than root him to the ground. I just feel that if I position him on the ground some of the energy of the pose will be lost. I'm also thinking a variance of blues and greens for his skin color ... we'll see when I get to that part. And lastly, I'm not going to shift the gunner's pose up any. Although it would position the gun at a more satisfactory angle for the image, I think the position of his body is more believable with the big guy's slant and direction. It goes back to energy and movement ... which is fine for me as is.

Tommy Lee - "armorlessness" isn't a word ... but who cares, I know what you're saying. :D Cheers friend, I'll have to check out your entry ASAP. Sadly, I've been reading a ton of other posts not in the Challenge sections. Downside to being a Forum Leader. :sad:

bdblok - Yeah, I'll tatoo, scar, blemish as much as I can in the coloring process. Maybe even some vericose viens here or there. :D

Goro
04-05-2005, 11:38 PM
beautiful Kirt! Great lineart! The poses are also perfect!
any plans for BG?

cgkrusty
04-06-2005, 01:29 AM
Looking great! Does the big guy have a lightsaber on his belt???

Love it if he does...

:thumbsup:

I still think having the big guy a bit more encumbered would help, especially if the gear was being jostled about in mid stride - sorta like 2ndary animation on a run cycle.

Still... just wonderful line-work and great characters!

:applause:

tilite
04-06-2005, 05:36 AM
ok so after hearing ur reasonings... i have somplete confidence in waht ur doing... ur answers havn't taken anything from my idealic vision of this piece only added to the dream.

its great work... so when do we get an update..???

Kirt
04-06-2005, 06:43 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1112769798_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1112769798_large.jpg)

Trying a composition test here and some really quick basic colors. The light blue lines and circle are my focal points and diagonals.

I ended up tilting the big guy back upright because the horizontal from the gun was still bugging me.

I should probably work out the details of the critters, but I put in some big grub worms as placeholders here.

Also, I'm still unsure of what type of environment to do. I thought a muddy swamp might be interesting to try. But, I guess that depends on what type of critters I put there.

Oh well ... back to doodling.

arLutiK
04-06-2005, 07:03 AM
Great you started the colors, I like your idea of the muddy swamp for your background.

Supervlieg
04-06-2005, 08:25 AM
Im liking the line-art. Good job! Now bring on those colors!

Adamos
04-06-2005, 09:20 AM
Master and Servant meets GSO!

Great hints of color Kirt, like the way you're experimenting! This is gonna be a rough scene isn't it?! I'm really looking forward to your coloring wip although let's wait and see how you finish the comp!

... later

AdaM

Jezzarts
04-06-2005, 10:49 AM
Awsome!! kill em all! This is coming along very nicely... will stay tunned.:thumbsup:

kingsal888
04-06-2005, 12:39 PM
I like the newest sketch version. I really enjoy the dynamic composition. I also really like the mounted gun idea. It seems the soldier and giant work well together :thumbsup:. Looking forward to coloring.

tilite
04-06-2005, 12:58 PM
interesting choice... critters, lol
i like the way the gun is set up much more now... great lil experiment.. only crit is the blast, do u think its o big?

Pak De
04-06-2005, 07:21 PM
Very artistic and strong sketches. Beautiful start. Hope to see the finish work. I'm sure it's going to look great! Can wait to see that. :applause:

element5
04-09-2005, 10:18 AM
Hiya Kirt,

Nice progress, I have a suggestion. The big guys hand could be grasping the tail of the slug creature as if he is swinging him up into the air for the little guy to balst the hell out of. Looks as if the big fellow could have a few burn marks from the close blasts....lol.

Mark

ilasolomon
04-11-2005, 11:01 PM
Hi Kirt, dear friend, you're just doing another amazing thing! :D great

here are some non-important comments, from an old comrade:

. Maybe a horizental, or vertical format, instead of square, would be better.
. Maybe If that Gun is pointing toward the viewer (not exactly facing camera)...well, maybe this is too late!
. A bigger/overlaped in-front creature, to express the perspective.


I like the eye-traveling of 'front creature - left hand - right arm - back creature - splotch!'

Kirt
04-12-2005, 08:11 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1113293489_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1113293489_large.jpg)

OK Ila - hopefully this fixes the square composition. I didn't like it either ... hehehehe

Where am I now? I wish I knew. This is an attempt to get a background going on this image. Also a little experimentation with the lighting to see if it has an appeal in B&W.

I don't seem to be making much progress at the moment. Ugh! This stuff is hard! Hehehehe.

Slav
04-12-2005, 12:41 PM
hey kirt great concept but i must ask what is he shooting at?

are you going to introduce new elements to image , either way i am going to enjoy seeing this thing develop. :thumbsup:

Magnemar
04-12-2005, 01:53 PM
Nice lighting - looks really strong from the thumbnail - caught my eye...

The composition is really good now - lots of movement and a balanced image.

Will be good to see it with colour.

SavageCreature
04-12-2005, 02:08 PM
I love the character design, I did from some of your first sketches, and it's even more appealing now that it's got some contrast and interactive lighting. I wonder if the background is appropriate, somehow, though. It somehow feels like they're not dressed for the weather, to me, or something. (I can't quite put my finger on it) Like maybe they should be in a dessert? Maybe the composition of the background is too pastoral and makes it difficult to believe there's a threat out of frame dangerous enough to justify shooting at. It feels more like Alice (in Wonderland) should be walking down the path. Just some thoughts. Very nice work in any case.

W-I-L
04-12-2005, 03:33 PM
hmm..not sure about that composition... i think it is beause the main haracter is dead in the centre of the page (vertically. same amount of space below and on top.)

But i agree. background sa re hard, and my weakest point... i am also crapa at composition so i can not talk. Forest/ jubgle setting is cool though

walrus
04-12-2005, 03:38 PM
I like the lighting in this, Kirt, but I agree with the others about the target of the gunfire. I thought the characters made more sense when they were in the midst of a battle, and when the "ogre" was swatting at another enemy. It also gave the movement a purpose: Even if you didn't see where he was running, you could infer a military target, or an imminent threat. With no threats, they seem a bit out of place. (Although, for a laugh, picture, Goro's painting just to the left of this one: Maybe he's shooting at a stray rabbit, and the two could work as a dyptych! :-) Just kidding...

Anyhow, good luck with it.

-mike

Kirt
04-12-2005, 03:53 PM
Oh, sorry. I guess I should have mentioned that the creatures are still in the design phase so I excluded them from the last update. The last update is strictly background and value study. I will be adding the creatures back in this image. Sorry about the confusion.

Paul_Terry
04-12-2005, 04:19 PM
Kirt,

Glad to see that you went with the swamp. Looks to be a good choice. Also lighting from the glow stick can be interesting, but may be difficult to get good lighting effect on gunman due to fat man's gut blockage. Alternate lighting sources may be from the grubs (perhaps some sort of glow bug). Or even some distant light from above the canopy of trees. Very cool stuff thus far. Looking forward to the completed project. AWESOME.

oatz
04-12-2005, 06:46 PM
One of the most active scenes! Terric spin on the concept. I think the angle of the gun/rotation of gunner is a bit off at this point but perhaps it will clear itself up with development.I would like to see both characters fill up more of the page for detail. I think the environment, while well lit and descriptive, is taking over too much.

Khye

VivianeFigueira
04-13-2005, 12:44 AM
I really like the movement in your work. :thumbsup:

Goro
04-14-2005, 11:06 AM
hehe walrus that's just a hilarious Idea..We should try that kirt! Just for fun ;)

If you are doing a lighting test you should work more on the values. at the moment
the background the character and the foreground have almost the same values.
Bring mor depth in it in lighten up the background and darken the foreground much more.
Also think about the value of the servant...if he ahs dark fur or light fur etc.
Then you should get a much better overall atmosphere.

xric7
04-20-2005, 08:42 AM
nice sketch:thumbsup:
and realy love your avatar:buttrock:
good luck


my master and servant 2d
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=227677 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=227677)

JimmiMak
04-20-2005, 09:02 AM
Hi Kirt

First of all, I must admit to liking the action element in this pic... and the humour. All I want to know really is; Does it not annoy/dishearten you that there are at least 50 other guys who have done basic clones of this concept?... Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning it's originality as I actually quite like it and think it's going to render really well.. I am just really curious as 60% of this competition is based on shoulder sitting masters and serving ogres:shrug: ..

Please don't take any of this the wrong way, the sole reason I have chosen your thread to post this on, is because I think you are one of the few of the 'above-mentioned' who has the talent and ability to make something really original out of this pic. I agree with the others in saying that he would better suit a battlefield or similar.. and that if you where to do something like this.. it would rule!...

I personally see him running through the streets of Afghanistan with a whorde of radicals getting their asses kicked by the U.S' new secret weapon... a boy on an ogre-lol!! I can almost hear those immortal screams of "WTF!?" but said in Afghan! lmao:D Imagine it... R.P.Gs being swatted aside.. tanks overturned and towel-headed terrorists filling their pants!! pmsl... Right... I'm off to change my entry to this, hardeehar:rolleyes: (jus' kiddin)

Have a think and give me some feedback, I'm very interested in this piece and see a huge amount of potential..

"Good Hustle"<-- quote stolen from Beelow-the pencil addict :D
Jimmi:thumbsup:

Kirt
04-20-2005, 11:06 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1114038369_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1114038369_large.jpg)

I haven't had much time lately to work on this and now I'm begining to worry that it will be completed on time.

But, I'm still working on it. I haven't made any progress on the creatures that these two will be shooting holes in. So, I started fudging around with the characters themselves.

Kirt
04-20-2005, 11:18 PM
JimmiMak - Yeah, it's a little discouraging to see so many variations of the piggy-back master & servant relationships. However, I'm not going to let it keep me from finishing my entry (I have enough problems with the "time" monkey on my back). I was looking through the entries the other day and started thinking, "Crap! So much for trying to hit the unique market ... everyone has the same idea!"

I haven't seen any other head mounted assault rifles though. :D

Looking through the past challenges, you can see similarities between the entries. I noticed in the Machineflesh book that was just released that there are a lot of "brain" themes in the images (brains with wires, brains in a jar, etc.).

I guess when it comes down to it we'll just have to see who's piggy-back creation can win in a swimming pool fight. :D

arkinet
04-20-2005, 11:35 PM
i like ur "human/monster tank" concept... keep blasting dude!!!

THE Wizard
04-22-2005, 10:39 PM
Nice style you have there buddy... Love it!

igorstshirts
04-22-2005, 11:52 PM
Yeah Kirt... Looks good. I like the weight.

Kirt
04-26-2005, 06:45 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1114497922_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1114497922_large.jpg)

Anyone else experience this? I get to a certain point in my drawings/paintings and I don't know how to proceed next. Mental road block? Afraid to screw it up? Color phobia?

Whatever you want to call it ... I can't get past B&W on this image. So, I go and mess around more in different areas rather than committing to color choices. Here's more value added, a lot of texture and a certain lack of creatures ... still. Deadline is getting closer and closer and closer ...

Argh! What have I gotten myself into?

Virtuoso
04-26-2005, 06:49 AM
I just think the characters,the style and idea are wonderful....very creative as well......as for drawing and skills....you have them on a very high level if you ask me Kirt.......As for colors.....no problem.....just go to them.......hit it strong like I know you can.......this piece deserves that and than some.......Lots of wonderful options in color pallette....just let it flow.....with your skill set this will come natural I have no doubts......I will be back to see the progress.......and am sure to be impressed.......:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

redfrog
04-26-2005, 09:30 AM
maybe if you coloured it in a sodium lit style (similar to movies like chronicles of riddick, and the crow 2), therefore it would be more aof a subtle transition into colour and still retain all that is great about your black and whites...just a thought anyway.my only other suggestion is to add somethng in the foreground with the black linework of your character and maybe anchor him to the scene more with a shadow.

Goro
04-26-2005, 09:57 AM
Hi kirt! looking good. But you still have some value problems going on.
The trees in the background have too much contrast. And the big tree too.
The shadow areas are too dark. The painting looses depth.
The darkest shadow is the closest to the camera.

And if the highlightareas of the characters are caused by the lightgun, you can go
way brighter in those areas. and darker in the shadows.

Zephyri
04-26-2005, 11:32 AM
Hey, i know how you feel with the colour thing. Why not just play in colour with the background first? Then you can build up to the character? I'd agree with Goro about the tree contrast, and maybe try adding some tonal depth even to the ogre character, fading his arm back? Something on the perspective of the gun looks odd to me, if I follow the line from the dials in front of the young man, down to where barrels, the whole thing seems to bend. But that might just be me.

Other than that, I'd say bite the bullet and go for it! It's looking great this far, I love the ogre's belly, it's got such a great weight and momentum to it, and the whole piece has a fantastic amount of energy.

Vectorius
04-26-2005, 11:39 AM
YEEAAHHH!! The background look good...:thumbsup: Even if I see one more "mechanical" background..Wait evolution...

Good luck:)

demonicoz
04-26-2005, 08:10 PM
Hey nice piece mate, love the trees in the background, nice and moody. cant wait to see it finished. Good luck!!!

Kirt
04-27-2005, 06:05 AM
Virtuoso - Thanks ... I guess I'm just afraid that it will become way oversaturated with colors and not look as interesting as the B&W version. I'll have to do my best anyway, as I'm determined to get this one done on schedule.

redfrog - Ack! Quoted 2 movie examples of which I haven't seen yet. However, I do have a plan to put some creatures in the foreground ... just don't know what they'll look like yet.

Goro - I see the contrast problems too and have already begun to fix that. Do you find it easier to get values at perfect levels if you're doing B&W first or would you keep the values moderately contrasting and push the extreme highlights/shadows while laying in colors? The later method is what I was trying. I'm sure there will be more extreme values when I'm done. Anyway ... I really appreciate your input because of my envy of your skills. :D

Zepyhri - Perspective is a bit off. The main viewer in the middle should angle more towards the viewer I think. The other guages are at different angles so this may be throwing the perception off as well. I'll see if I can't fix it.

Fiolka & demonicoz - Thanks! I'll get back to it. :wip:

Kirt
04-27-2005, 07:41 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1114587668_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1114587668_large.jpg)

I mostly worked on the bottom right corner. I didn't have much time tonight to do too much. Hopefully, the contrast is a little better in the foreground.

I didn't do anything up in the trees ... so that still needs work.

tilite
04-27-2005, 08:27 AM
kirt this is such a cool piece... i love it so much.. and i was created all by u, ur the one with the talent. i remember speaking to u about colours and u had them down pat! i think if u just start splashing stuff down post it and u wil get plenty to response on the pallette.

the forground looks much better... i think this could be an interesting piece for lighting and glows... u couls really push the boundaries. a while back u posted an image of a glow let of from the servants glow stick... that was wicked... anything else along those lines planned?

edit: maybe a few coloured lights on ur nuken :thumbsup: and a larger glow of the glow stick... now im extreemly anxious to see colour... update!! hehe

Kirt
04-27-2005, 09:03 AM
i remember speaking to u about colours and u had them down pat!Really? I don't remember that. Usually I'm better at offering suggestion to other people. It's generally easier since most of the work has already been done and I can just offer what needs more tweaking. I guess I'm overly critical of my own work and keep hitting these imaginary (and frustrating) mental roadblocks. :shrug: a while back u posted an image of a glow let of from the servants glow stick... that was wicked... anything else along those lines planned?

edit: maybe a few coloured lights on ur nuken :thumbsup: and a larger glow of the glow stick... now im extreemly anxious to see colour... update!! heheThe glow stick is still there hanging off of his belt on the lower right. It'll probably be more noticable with colors and more attention to the reflected light. Also, looking back at my ortho view of the big guy and the Nukem gear I had some lights set for the gun itself. I think that will definately be back cause I want to reflect some light on the gunner's face.

I'll be updating a few times this week. Hopefully colors will start to emerge within this time period or else I'm going to get too far behind to finish on time.

pigwater
04-27-2005, 12:49 PM
glad to see your still in this thing ...coming along splashingly ( bottom right working well ) love the roots

i think too you should stop thinkin ... if it were only that easy to do though :shrug:

fensterer
04-27-2005, 01:04 PM
I like your characters and the big guy's motion. The enviorment you put them in is looking really cool as well, nice work so far!:D

paperclip
04-27-2005, 01:08 PM
Hey Kirt, I think you should make the area below the big guy's outstretched hand darker, that would make the arm pop out more & bring your eye up to the character more. As it stands, I tend to look at the background more...
Looking brilliant though, keep it up! :thumbsup:

lulaassassina
04-27-2005, 02:13 PM
HAHA! :D

This one made me laugh!

Kirt
04-28-2005, 08:08 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1114675678_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1114675678_large.jpg)

Added a couple of bugs today and played with lighting from the gun. Just jumping around all over this image and working little bits at a time until it finalizes into something that I like.

Goro
04-28-2005, 12:13 PM
Hi Kirt!
Well I usually don't paint a Grayscale Version. I find it more easy to paint directly with
colors. I do change the colored version to grascale sometimes just to check the values.
But when you do a Grayscale version I would recommend to choose already the right
values. (It's not easy I know :))
Cause if you push highlights and shadows while laying in colors you don't need
to do the black and white version. The main advantage of painting in B&W is to
be able to concentrate on the values without worrying about hue and saturation.
If the values are perfect you still can mess up your painting with hue and saturation.

I did a quick overpaint and tried to correct the value problem. I think it should work
better this way. Hope you don't mind.
I made the background a lighter and with less contrast. Same for the big tree.
To let it appear that the gunlight is bright you need more contrast in highlight and
shadow areas of the foreground and the characters otherwise it looks more like a
diffuse lightsource.
The bug in the foreground and the bug in the air had the same values. I lightened up
the air bug. Just remeber that objects in the foreground has much contrast and
objects in the background less contrast and brighter values.

Hope this helps!
Cheers!
Goro


http://www.area-56.de/pics/cgtalk/kirt_paintover.jpg

demonicoz
04-28-2005, 09:02 PM
Hey its coming along nicely mate. Can't wait to see the colour.

liquidwerx
04-28-2005, 09:30 PM
Great concept, excellent character design... Very impressive entry so far. Keep up the good work!


M

Kirt
04-29-2005, 08:13 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1114762417_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1114762417_large.jpg)

Thank you Goro for taking the time to do that paint over. It help tremendously! Hopefully, you can see where I implemented your ideas.

I like it!

I'm still working in the pond and plants around the water's edge. So, forgive the muddiness in there. Also, need to work on the foreground bug.

Goro, you rock!

arLutiK
04-29-2005, 08:20 AM
Kirt your imaging is getting nicer and nicer love the choice of the black and white, it creates a very nice mood to the scene, great work so far, looking foward to see your final one.

bealobo
04-29-2005, 08:32 AM
hi!
I hadnt been here before, but your picture is excellent, very dynamic.
Ill keep watching the progress.:thumbsup:

Goro
04-29-2005, 11:41 AM
hehe np kirt glad I could help!

This is coming along really nice now! Much more depth in this piece!
The trees far away in the background could be lighter...less contrast. They are
still too present. The rimlight of his right foot can be brighter.

The water is great! Makes everything look more dynamic!
Are you planning to keep the lineart?

Ilikesoup
04-29-2005, 07:25 PM
This would look great as an etching! I'm learning a lot from reading this thread.

Kirt
04-30-2005, 12:33 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1114864399_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1114864399_large.jpg)

I think a nice blue green tint will do this image nicely. I upped the image to 150dpi. I'm going to start refining areas and putting some color down. Only a couple weeks left ... it's going to be close.

Mysterious X
04-30-2005, 01:57 PM
I love the way this image is developing..way to go kirt :thumbsup:
I'm just wondering what's the servant looking at ?

ms@zx
04-30-2005, 03:37 PM
nice laser beam effect man..great progress..keep this coming kirt~ :thumbsup:

arkinet
04-30-2005, 03:40 PM
I'm just wondering what's the servant looking at ?

... i think he's tracking the bugs thru his lcd sensors, too dark too see em w/ those goggles:) am i right kirt? anyway, love the way this is going, me like that lcd glow:thumbsup: blst them kirt! blast them!!

jeromoo
04-30-2005, 03:43 PM
This work reminds me of Ninja Turtles cartoons! :) the beast looks like he's doing ballet combat :D. I recommend you to up it to 300 dpi. Can produce better quality images, especially for printing. If you already knew that, then nevermind.

abourabe
04-30-2005, 04:03 PM
I like your composition and the idea is very fresh
good luck .

tilite
04-30-2005, 05:14 PM
oh yeh!!! now i remember y i have stuck with ur entry all this time.

those lights are awesome and talent is excelent too... cant wait for more updates. no crits great work

walrus
04-30-2005, 06:51 PM
See, and you thought you'd never get to color...! :-) i like the blue and green lights a lot, but my eye keeps getting drawn to the bright green light hanging off of the big guy's belt, and there doesn't seem to be anything to look at down there. The other lights are important focus points, but the bottom right one just pulls me away from the main focus.
Good luck with the rest of the colors. You'll make it in time!

-mike

Mordalles
04-30-2005, 10:47 PM
stunning work, kirt! so thats what they meant with light sources 1st!:wise:

Virtuoso
05-01-2005, 11:51 AM
See...................Colors are matching the rest.............Zesty and quite top rate.....:arteest: :beer:

element5
05-01-2005, 12:25 PM
:applause: Very nice progress no crits from me :thumbsup:

blakbird
05-02-2005, 06:29 PM
Interesting scene. Like a hi tech cartoon movie.

igorstshirts
05-02-2005, 06:35 PM
This is looking nice Kirt.... The finished piece should be awesome. And... I do agree with walrus a little on the bottom green light. I like the way it lights up the tree stump there and such but it is sort of a "dead end" for the eye... Later!

Kirt
05-03-2005, 07:11 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1115104313_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1115104313_large.jpg)

OK ... I moved all of my grayscale layers into a set and set it to Luminosity. Moved my light source layers (3) above this and set the properties to Color. Then finally created a couple layers underneath the grayscale and started painting basic color values on Normal properties.

Some changes made, per suggestions, were to decrease the ambient lighting of the glow stick hanging from his belt. And took it upon myself to change the lazer blast to an orange tint for contrast to the blue green. Hopefully this all draws your attention away from the bottom corner better.

Still a lot of work to do. Back to work.

SavageCreature
05-05-2005, 04:52 PM
I retract all previous statements about Alice in Wonderland and the background. It looks very appropriate. I could continue to ramble about every thing I like about the image, but I'll just say; Great Job (and leave it at that) :thumbsup:

tilite
05-05-2005, 06:22 PM
hehe i just noticed something about the critters but ill get to that in a second... i just wanted to say that excluding visual contrast and a colour hiearchy i much prefer the blue blast... if u must put the blue behind u what about a red or deep orange.. yeh deep orange :shrug:

ok so im sure ur aware... its more of a 'hehe" than a "crit"... but there is a certian urgency with this image... and top me ur master and servant are kinda equiped to take on the world.... but alas... they have 2 bugs to deal with:thumbsup: ok so u see my hehe... maybe u could just sketch in the rest so we can get back to u on a composition before u get to far into the painting. ( i think u need more dangerous bugs... these are great leave them just add a different style of bug... or a few styles.)

great work... it really will be an equisite piece:)

Kirt
05-07-2005, 08:30 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1115454628_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5732/5732_1115454628_large.jpg)

Most of the work on this latest update is around the big guy's forward arm and the glow stick hanging from his belt.

You can see where I started on the gunner's face as well, but I wasn't happy with how that was turning out, so I moved onto the big guy.

11 days left and too much left to do. Hopefully my home computer doesn't choke on this file. I'll try to get some more done this weekend.

TheFirstAngel
05-08-2005, 05:38 PM
Very cool work on the light. that cyan accent is a neat adition. Keep on rocking Kirt!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

bdblok
05-11-2005, 10:24 AM
hi!!
oh my!!!

that looks really really good !
keep it up :D

paperclip
05-11-2005, 12:17 PM
Looking amazing so far Kirt, I love the style & execution!

Keep it up, not long left!!
theresa:thumbsup:

paperclip
05-14-2005, 07:29 AM
Looking good...go, Kirt! Only 4 days left!


I'd remove that black line on the far side of his face and give him his other cheek-line- you likely were going to do that anyway, but I thought I'd just remind you!
Also, I'd tone down the glowstick, it takes attention away from the story.

Aside from that, this is a very cool pic which I enjoy looking at very much...keep it up! :thumbsup:

igorstshirts
05-14-2005, 07:41 AM
A nuclear weapon that close to one's cranium can't be good. This is looking insane.

patsy
05-19-2005, 08:22 PM
:wise: HI kirt, have you any knowledge when the winners will be announced

Kirt
05-19-2005, 11:37 PM
I don't have any inside info on the announcement of winners.
I will know when you will know. Sorry.

ace4016
05-20-2005, 01:06 AM
Too bad you couldn't finish this one Kirt, it was a fun image. Maybe next time.

Rudeone
05-20-2005, 01:41 AM
Awh didn't get to finish this one either? (refering to that great piece you wanted to submit for expose 3), that's to bad man cause it was looking really good, better luck next time. You're still gonna finish this right?

TheFirstAngel
05-21-2005, 07:22 PM
Hey Kirt, thanks again for your help, and i hope to see you finnish this in the wip section. I always loved your style, and am looking forward to what you come up with next. keep on rocking and thanks specially what you do for the whole community. you rock!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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