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walrus
03-22-2005, 01:12 AM
Michael Dashow has entered the Master and Servant 2D.

Challenge Page (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/masterandservant/view_entries.php?challenger=5662)

Latest Update: Final Image: wageSlave - the story of a hapless office worker who didn't use his Spell Checker
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1115827409_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1115827409_large.jpg)

And.... DONE! whew! Now I just have to FTP the final TIF. For those who are curious, the resolution I'm submitting is 3207 x 3786, and that's the size I worked on the thing the whole time.

Taz - thanks! I'm honored, as I like your stuff a lot too!

arlutik - "Don't know what happen I think I fell asleep..." No worries, my work tends to have that effect on people! :-)

chinbig2000 and patrick - thank you!

Eric - I owe you a REALLY BIG thanks, becuase you really helped inspire this piece in a BIG way. After seeing the winners in the GSO Challenge, I was already thinking ahead to the next one.... This one. I was wondering whether I should just try for a "cool" image, one that would have been the result of my second-guessing what i thought others would want to see and vote for. My day job is like that: Lots of "cool" art. But seeing you pull into the winners circle with your image - colorful and sweet and pensive and not violent and still every inch a winner - and seeing that people would appreciate a different image like that... Well, that helped me to decide just to do my own thing. And besides, who wants to spend two months on an image that doesn't really represent one's self and one's portfolio? So here you have it: A very "me" image. And folks like it! So, sappy as this whole missive sounds, thanks for just being you and doing your own thing!

Theresa - Tanks so much for your posts and encouragement.

Paul & Matt & Jose - Thanks! Now you get out there and finish yours!

Arctis - Thanks, Pierre!

okay, off to FTP!

-mike

Tommy Lee
03-22-2005, 01:20 AM
Hey there Walrusman... good luck and have fun. Can't wait for you creation...

Cheerz

Tommy Lee

ArtisticVisions
03-22-2005, 01:24 AM
Good luck, walrus. :thumbsup:

Hillartsympho
03-22-2005, 01:33 AM
Good Luck!

MDN67
03-22-2005, 07:55 AM
good luck walrus

NinjaA55N
03-22-2005, 08:01 AM
Nice to see u man! Good luck!

Fahrija
03-22-2005, 08:54 AM
hi mike,

good luck to you. looks like the theme suits you fine I supose. :)

fahrija

ms@zx
03-22-2005, 09:27 AM
enjoy the challenge and good luck ~!:thumbsup:

monsitj
03-22-2005, 09:52 AM
Hi! how are you? nice to see ya again! waiting for you great charactor style again , good luck

kalemna
03-22-2005, 10:01 AM
good luck :)

Squibbit
03-22-2005, 10:02 AM
daashow...daashow.. hehe , have fun !

spacesnail
03-22-2005, 10:03 AM
Hello,

happpy design, painting and all that sort of thing :thumbsup:

W-I-L
03-22-2005, 01:37 PM
nice to see u in it. . . . cant wait to see ur character designs... maybe i wil finish this time! this will be better than the space opera!

AirbORn
03-22-2005, 04:03 PM
Hey Walrus!

Good to see you again in the challenege arena :) I am excited since the focus this time is characters. Take care! :)

walrus
03-22-2005, 05:41 PM
Hey, all! Thanks for dropping in. Yeah, I'm really excited that there's a character focus this time 'round, as that's my great love. And interactions between two characters... Ah, I'm excited! Got a few weird ideas I'm working on, but nothing's gelled yet (but hey, it's only the first day!) Something to show soon... or eventually...

and, uh, squibbitt... ?!?
Does my name mean something in Finnish that I'm unaware of? :-\

-mike

coCoKNIght
03-22-2005, 07:46 PM
:) Hi Michael, glad to see you participating again. Your space opera image was cool!

cgkrusty
03-22-2005, 08:07 PM
Good luck man.... can't wait to see what you come up with!

Virtuoso
03-22-2005, 10:23 PM
Hi Michael..........Looking forward to some real nice creativity.....good luck to you,all the best.....:arteest:

Squibbit
03-22-2005, 10:33 PM
nah it was just a reference to the fallen or whatsem called,
stuck to my mind from visiting your homepage , funny thing :)

paulwdavidson
03-22-2005, 10:38 PM
Bring on the art! Good luck


Paul

SideAche
03-23-2005, 01:20 AM
Best wishes Michael, good to see you.

andreasrocha
03-23-2005, 07:37 AM
Good luck, Michael...Good to see you back!

Rudeone
03-23-2005, 02:03 PM
good to see you man! I'm expecting a great piece from your hand, good luck!

walrus
03-23-2005, 05:09 PM
Thanks, everyone!
But I think my goal this time around will be to see how many posts I can garner without ever posting a single piece of artwork myself...!

(just kidding)

Squibbit, thanks for visiting my homepage!
For those who haven't (i.e. everyone else) he's referring to the Fallen from the game 'Diablo II,' who are all yelling my last name. (Not coincedentally, that's my voice there, too!)

Anyhow, got some sketches but they're atill too rough to post - they don't make sense to anyone but me. I'm not too worried about someone laying claim to the concept I'm working on in the meantime: It's way too weird for anyone else to have done. :-)

more soon (but keep posting in the meantime!)

-mike

walrus
03-24-2005, 05:31 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1111642218_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1111642218_large.jpg)

Okay, never mind, maybe I will upload some art after all.

Everyone else seems to be staking out the sexy women/large beast/giant robot territory pretty thoroughly, so I think I'll explore something entirely different. Anyone who's ever worked in an office (or anyone who's ever been a disciple minion of the Followers of the Old Ones) should be able to relate to this idea. Poor Bob is having a bad day at work, in the central offices of NecronomiCom, Inc. He's messed up his quarterly incantation and summoning report and his supervisor is rather displeased. And poor Bob's been pulling all-nighters working on his spell-processor application to rectify the discrepancies. (It's hard to make out now, but he's got a desktop printer down there in the lower-center of the pic spewing out parchment scrolls.)

It's only a first sketch, I need to refine it a lot more. I think the boss needs a bit more curve to the body, and I'm still not really sure what Bob is going to look like exactly. I'm open to suggestions on any of it...!

-mike

Walrusmann
03-24-2005, 07:12 AM
i like what youve got here walrus, still likin the name by the way, its somethin to relate to good job very original good luck man

Jezzarts
03-24-2005, 07:25 AM
I like it! Especially the fact that the boss is probably muffling on about something poor old bob cant understand (or would want too) because of those squid like tenticals! Fantastic.

mmmm maybe for more impact, you could have the office cubicles spanning out into the distance so you can see the curve of the earth... making the boss look huge towering over bob with nervous co-workers pretending to be busy with thier heads down in panic...

Good start - jez

monsitj
03-24-2005, 08:16 AM
I like your style! very unique! more updates!!

duddlebug
03-24-2005, 08:44 AM
Cool idea... another something 'different'...

i know it's an early sketch, but the suggestion i'd make would be to have the little guy seated and have the big tentacle face reeeeeally towering over him and putting him into shadow. And maybe change the perspective to accentuate that (having the 'camera' tucked down by the computer for instance, with Bob in the foreground glancing back at his towering supervisor?).

NinjaA55N
03-24-2005, 09:16 AM
Great sketch! And I like the idea also, but I was thinking there is something missing. This pic could be easely inside of a comic, but why shouldnt u do it for a comic coverpage! With that I mean more dramatic approach, which duddlebug gave u a post higher. I hope for more sketches from u! :)

Squibbit
03-24-2005, 09:19 AM
yea good work but i'm with ninja and jonny ,needs a boost

walrus
03-24-2005, 03:30 PM
Thanks for the notes, folks! It's really only a first sketch to point the direction of where I want to head, but readible enough that I'm already starting to get some great advice from people... Cool!

Jez - I love the idea of the kind of fish-eye lens on the near-endless field of cubicles. I'm not quite sure how exacly I go about drawing something like that: Basic art class perspective never coverred wonky oints-of-view like that. Hmmm, maybe dra it with traditional perspective and then mess with Photoshop's glass lens distortion filters for a rough layout? Any suggestions, anyone?

and Jonny and the rest of you: Yeah, you're right, I can definately push the camera angle and scale ever furhter than I'm doing. Good ideas, I'll work on that...!

Thanks again for the comments. Hope you all are feeling similarly inspired!

-mike

Tris3d
03-24-2005, 06:01 PM
Good luck!! Will be watching with great interest!

MDN67
03-24-2005, 06:45 PM
Good concept, very funny:thumbsup::thumbsup:

W-I-L
03-24-2005, 08:00 PM
original and fun... like it... the boss looks spot on. love him holdign the coffee. There is a bit in futurama that reminds me of this. cant wait to see where u take it

Ilikesoup
03-24-2005, 09:09 PM
Oh, you and your tentacles. . .

Great first sketch. Had you considered a group of "prairie dogging" office mates? Seems to me that if one lackey is being chewed out by the boss, everybody else is peeking over their cubicle walls to find out why.

spacesnail
03-24-2005, 11:03 PM
Hya F'taghn Cthulu... Hehe. Really love your master of the deep.
Snail

walrus
03-25-2005, 04:52 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1111769530_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1111769530_large.jpg)

Cghristopher - What, you can't tell that those little circles at the tops of the cubicle walls are officemates prairie-dogging? lol! Anyhow, they're there, and I'm ahead of you on that one.

I've been fooling around with the camera angle a lot, but unfortunately, moving the camera down loses the feeling of being surrounded by cubicles. That part of the piece is important as it sets up a context: This office-worker isn't just being terrorized by some random Cthulhu, but by his manager Cthulhu. So i need to keep the cubicles. It may end up that I distort perspective and scale to compensate for not moving the camera lower, we'll see.

In the meantime, just doodling some more character ideas. I dunno, should the boss have a mouth or not? Can't decide. Oh, and I like the sketch on the left much more than the one on the right: He looks more like a manager but less threatening, I just scanned and posted it to show it to folks, but I don't plan on using that design.

More later...

-mike

W-I-L
03-25-2005, 04:59 PM
really great stuff .. . . keep pushing it!

AlyFell
03-25-2005, 05:06 PM
These concepts and sketches are looking fab Michael. You look like you are having fun!

OKMER
03-25-2005, 05:18 PM
Hi there Micheal,This is a great idea!!Your sketches are heading the right way and really look nice,althoug maybe they need some more dynamics.Sure be hanging around here,kp them coming!!!Maybe it could be cool to see some other workers scared off by the boss around him,you know watching secrtely from behind their computerscreens.Just n suggestion,Good lcuk and loads of fun 2 U

duddlebug
03-25-2005, 05:32 PM
More great drawings... keep pushin' it!! :)

paperclip
03-25-2005, 05:45 PM
I love your concept, you have some mighty fine talent there buddy. I really like your concept sketches, the coffee was a nice touch :) The only crit I have is that the jacket seems rather out of place? Maybe if he was bursting out of a shirt and loose tie instead?
Just an idea!
The tentacles around the mouth are wonderfully dynamic. Keep up the good work!

walrus
03-25-2005, 06:24 PM
Thanks for the notes, all. Yeah, I'll keep pushing it, it's early yet.

Paperclip - I can see how the jacket may be a little weird, but I also think it's an important part of the picture. In a lot of modern offices, it's sometimes easy to tell who's part of the "ruling class" by their wardrobes: The jacket (especially when the poor worker is not wearing one) acts as a symbol of power. It needs to be clear that the larger figure has power, not just because of his imposing stature but because he's a manager. And in the end, many many of us are servants not to robots or monsters or whatnot, but just to plain old managers. This one isn't plain, but the idea's there, and the clothes help. :-)

Aly - Oh, yeah, I'm having fun. And I daresay it looks like you are too! :-)

-mike

Kosmos
03-25-2005, 06:31 PM
NICE concept, im unsure however, is the big guy going to be leaning over the man. Anyway I like the style good luck and keep it up :thumbsup:

Master and Servant

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=223447

Falcorr
03-25-2005, 06:38 PM
Good luck Walrus! :thumbsup:
Cant really give out any advices yet, but if you want to achieve better artwork than the guy next to you. Always compare two pictures at the same time.. If you end up looking at other guys sketch more. Improve yours! :deal:

When you cant remove your eyes from your own artwork even if everybodys work is next to yours. Yours will be the best!

I'll be doing lots of those posedowns. Seya!

Ilikesoup
03-25-2005, 07:00 PM
I prefer sketch #1 because he looks less human. As far as the boss' clothes, what if he wore ceremonial robes? Kind of like he was in the middle of a big incantation with important clients. The spell went horribly wrong and they might lose this account because the intern gave him chicken blood instead of goat's blood.

I'm gonna have weird dreams because of this thread. I just know it. . .

BlackDidThis
03-25-2005, 09:21 PM
Woow great entry and idea...

What is it lately? LoveCraft is back in the game (To some of us, he was never out!)? Ten years ago, no one had heard his name.. and now a version on every forum :)

I JUST had a confersation with a member from another forum on how we could interpret the anatomy of Cthulhu. Not to really say that there has been a better variation, but incase you would like to read through a process of another individual working on Cthulhu HERE (http://www.threedy.com/site/forum/showthread.php?t=28268&page=3&pp=30)'s the thread.

As for your 'so-far' sketches... I would have to admit that I loved the character on the right of the last sketch. But the one on the left leaves more options for an impressive composition. It seems like the plumped character would sort of demand you to build up an aditional environment to fit him into.

Your idea is screaming 'Original' and your sketches so far are very promising. I would love to see the furthered developments!

Black

NinjaA55N
03-26-2005, 05:34 PM
Looking good walrus! Ur sketches r really great so I expect at least a few more of them ;) But be careful, Im geting a feeling of a very similar main character as in ur GSO (tentacles and position) so I hope u'll manage to change that later... With position of a character, color scheme or something.. but hey, I know u r a great artist, so I dont any doubts about it! Waiting for more!

walrus
03-26-2005, 06:08 PM
Oh my gosh, Blaz, I completely didn't notice that until you pointed it out! You're right, I am inadvertantly repeating myself! What is it about these art challenges that bring out the urge to depict 'fear' and 'intimidation' in my images, where I usually don't in my other art? Is it the themes? Or the fact that I feel 'fear' and 'intimidation' enterring these challenges with so many other good artists around? Anyhow, I can assure you that there will be no repeat of the last challenge's color palette... Hopefully ever! :-)
I was thinking of something very subdued for most of it, conveying the sterility of the modern office, with a strong value contrast between the flourescently-lit cubicles and the very dark imposing figure, with some blue underlighting from the computer screen. Should make it look somewhat different...

Black - I dunno, I'm pat of that camp that never thought he went out. My circle of friends have been joking about him for years! So I guess I hadn't noticed a recent resurgence, as he's always been part of my visual vocabulary. (Tangent: You know who you get when you call 1-800-cthulhu? Last time i checked it was American Express. We asked for the boss, but thatnkfully he wasn't in.) Thanks for the link to the other Cthulhu thread! Some interesting discussion going on there. Don't know if I agree with using insects like praying mantisses, or cats talons as a reference, but of course it's open to interpretation. I always picture something more aquatic. Webbed fingers, and cepalopods as facial reference. I've been Google-image-searching for "cuttlefish" this week! Anyhow, thanks for tuning in.

Got all day to draw today, so hopefully more progress soon...

-mike

unitstudio
03-26-2005, 06:29 PM
Hey Michael. Good to see you here again. Great work on the GSO entry by the way. Mightily impressed.

This is also off to a fine beginning and I like that it is unique take on the master-servant theme. The squid-boss is beautifully executed, and i think the overarching, menacing pose is far more powerful and threatening. Maybe you could try for some oblique camera angle, with it it placed within cubicle - bob to the side, somewhat splayed, and the boss the centre and focus - standing in the cubicle entrance...don't mind me, i'm just getting excited by the idea and starting to visualise it.

Whatever you chose, I think it'll the right choice - you're a talented guy after all. :)

-g

DyslexicDan
03-26-2005, 06:35 PM
Cool reminds me of the monster from the Call of Cthulhu.

"The TPS report of Cthulhu"

teknotek83
03-26-2005, 06:39 PM
I actually had a employer-employee concept buried in the back of my head. I'm glad you're tackling it, cause it's loking great! Charming boss character. :thumbsup:

NOOB!
03-26-2005, 07:03 PM
ur latest art is extremly greatastic.

nice character designs.

walrus
03-27-2005, 02:41 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1111891306_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1111891306_large.jpg)

Well, I may be getting closer. I drew a whole bunch of rough layouts, scanned them in, and then realized that they were pretty much the same exact layout! Doesn't mean it's good, though... I've tried to move the camera down as many of you have suggested (thanks, many of you!) but it's at the expense of seeing all of the cubicle tops. You can still see a couple of officeworkers peeking in, but i may have lost something. Seriously, what do you think?

Teknotek - yeah, I can't believe that I'm somehow the only person in this challenge thus far to play off of the master/servant boss/employee theme... Maybe you all need to get jobs! Or maybe i just need to get a new one! :-D Anyone need a slightly used 2D/3D game artist, 14 yrs. exp but still runs gd, lousy brakes, no AC, comes with stereo?

Noob - I'm pretty sure that's the first time my work has ever been called "greatastic." Thanks!

Back to drawing (or playing Oddworld:Stranger, or something...)

-mike

Squibbit
03-27-2005, 02:49 AM
'c' i'd say , only i'd change the perspective to look down upon the
employee

maybe 'b' too if there was something like the desk and monitor more
in the view in the front to get better feel of the perspective

monsitj
03-27-2005, 03:19 AM
cool stuff man! I'll go for C for the boss , and B for man , and I think you are on the right path, !:thumbsup:

ArtisticVisions
03-27-2005, 03:50 AM
cool stuff man! I'll go for C for the boss , and B for man , and I think you are on the right path, !:thumbsup:
Yep, I agree with using those two concepts as well. Looking sharp, Michael. :thumbsup:

walrus
03-27-2005, 04:30 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1111897853_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1111897853_large.jpg)

Well, I went back to drawing after the last post and came up with this one. No sea of cubicles but lots of people peeking in and one of the better senses of claustrophobia i've conveyed yet. The printer at the bottom is spitting out scrolls of arcane symbols, and I even had room for a few candles down there as well. Anyhow, see what you think of this compared to the other 3 (or 4 as the last post before those should count, too!)

-mike

teknotek83
03-27-2005, 04:47 AM
nice pentagrams! :twisted:

sidchagan
03-27-2005, 04:51 AM
Really funny, original concept you have going here, cant wait to see the actual piece started

cgkrusty
03-27-2005, 05:22 AM
Really like the reworked composition! can't wait to see how you handle the lighting with this image... it's gonna be awesome! Great work!!!

eclipson
03-27-2005, 05:27 AM
looks pretty interesting, GoodLux!!:thumbsup:

eclipson
03-27-2005, 05:28 AM
looks pretty interesting, GoodLux!!:thumbsup:

BlackDidThis
03-27-2005, 05:33 AM
Black - I dunno, I'm pat of that camp that never thought he went out. My circle of friends have been joking about him for years! So I guess I hadn't noticed a recent resurgence, as he's always been part of my visual vocabulary. (Tangent: You know who you get when you call 1-800-cthulhu? Last time i checked it was American Express. We asked for the boss, but thatnkfully he wasn't in.) Thanks for the link to the other Cthulhu thread! Some interesting discussion going on there. Don't know if I agree with using insects like praying mantisses, or cats talons as a reference, but of course it's open to interpretation. I always picture something more aquatic. Webbed fingers, and cepalopods as facial reference. I've been Google-image-searching for "cuttlefish" this week! Anyhow, thanks for tuning in.

Got all day to draw today, so hopefully more progress soon...

-mike
I had so figured such.. I mean that you are of the LoveCraft Campers.. or at least the old ones.. very neat catches all through out.
As for the insect wings bit.. to my opinion.. the model he has created has nothing to do with what I would picture Cthulhu to look like. But none the less years have passed with alot of interpretations by many artists. My job is to help them achieve THEIR vision if I can. Not to enforce my vision on them (My version that I had done for a book illustration was posted on that thread... I could always provide a link.. but this is your show)
Do you still need a cuttlefish ref? I should have a footage on video. If you still have a need I can ask my wife to go through them.

As for your sketches. (Again great works) I would go for the last one for basically the general posture.
You know the way the eye is sort of used to reading from left to right. So on the other images we almost don't see the character.. but sort of see through him.. without reading. When you mirrored him to the right side he had more a stand.. sort of like a 'fullstop' Does this make any sence?
I also liked your new versions so where he towers more because of looking from more below. I had personally preffered the desk top to be seen. but you have managed a very cool work around it(Though the screen looks a bit off the desk).. so I really don't know. I think the last one really takes the spotlight. Theonly thing I would dare coment on would be the pants. sort of like a butlers pair of trousers.. and the tall stand.. do you get what I mean? It sort of gives the cold disciplined English Buttler era.

Your works are going TOO good.. As much as this is suppose to annoy me. I can't wait for your next updates.

Black

Archimago
03-27-2005, 05:36 AM
My favorite of any post yet(even mine). I'm going to have to go back to the drawing board. Your concept is great. If only poor Bob had used his "spell" checker. :)

MDN67
03-27-2005, 06:11 AM
very good sketch, i hope you choice the last, and i wait the line art, good work:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Rhenia
03-27-2005, 06:27 AM
Wow....Looks just like a boss I use to have...lol

Arc80
03-27-2005, 06:41 AM
Good work dude. I like the humorus style and content to it. The composition is fine.
I would like to see how you are going to light this piece.

Goodluck dude

arLutiK
03-27-2005, 09:00 AM
Cool drawing I like it alote,

eupee
03-27-2005, 09:39 AM
love that style.. i dont know if those trunks are working for me.. id like something more angry.

walrus
03-27-2005, 05:14 PM
Hey, all! Thanks for the comments! Glad to hear folks are liking the last one. I am too: I printed out all of the previous ones on a sheet and seeing them all together helped me figure out what wasn't exactly working about them. I still want to do a lot of tweaking, but I think I'm on my way!

Black - "A Lovecraft Camper," huh? First time I've ever been called that, either... i like it! I did get to see your book illustration in the other thread that you'd linked to. I like it, nice work! Thanks for the offer of the cuttlefish reference but I'm okay with out it. I did find a lot on Google image search. I think you have a good point about the orientation of the image. As i work I tend to flip things back and forth to make sure things are working both ways. (I highly recommend that everyone do this with their images! Even in non-digital media: In my water color class we have a mirro just for looking at our pieces in. You can catch a lot of weirdness in an image by looking at it like that!)

As for the pants, you're right, they do look sort of "butlery." I's the fact that the knees are locked and I drew stripes on them. They won't be in the final line art but I was thinking about a dark charcoal grey suit with lighter pinstripes.

Archmago - Thanks so much! Don't give up, though, keep plugging away at it, you have plenty of time! And I wish there were some way to incorporate the spell-checker line in this piece, but I haven't come up with a way quite yet...

Ken and Arc80 - It's not going to have as creepy lighting as you would expect from your "typical" Cthulhu piece, as I'm shooting for the mundaneness of the office setting. The ceiling will have lots of flourescent lights so there will be a harsh neutral light from the top and a lot of shadows on the bottom. I'm planning on a blueish underlighting from the monitor, which should add a nice, eerie tint, but i haven't decided whether that should be on the lower left or right and will flip the foreground elements - the printer and screen - as is appropriate... heh, but noone really cares to read my expostulating on this junk, you all want to see color pictures, right? I'll get on that...! :-)

More later, thanks again all for the posts!

-mike

cgkrusty
03-28-2005, 05:15 AM
Ahhh.... then maybe you're leaning towards those drab / flat / overbright Green hazed Matrix (original) office scenes in regards to lighting?

I always loved the mood set in those sequences...

Can't wait!

CryingHorn
03-28-2005, 05:45 PM
Well the idea is sure original, I like the "boss"/master. Good luck...

W-I-L
03-28-2005, 05:57 PM
loving the concept...great line work....and dramatic view of charaters..will lookk really nice when colour is applied

BlueEyeLizard
03-28-2005, 07:09 PM
Hey Wallrus!I like the new point of view a lot better. My only opinion is that you should include different species of onlookers. It may tie in better to the boss being a different species himself.

I really like the idea!

brianl
03-28-2005, 07:19 PM
Looking Good Mike!! I knew there was something fishy in corporate offices ;)

Brian

dondiego
03-28-2005, 07:26 PM
I liked the new layout, but I think you may add the more intimidating posture the boss has in that third of the three almost-the-same ones :P

Walrusmann
03-28-2005, 08:07 PM
I like what youve done with the latest one the close up gives it a more threatening feel but i like how you kept the business suit on the monster and the red marks on the paper, really gives the viewer something to relate to, especially for an office working man whos boss is a jack ass

any way i think you should stick with this one man its my favorite keep up the good work

Adamos
03-28-2005, 10:26 PM
Yo Mike!

wen't through your little "gallery" here and everything seems uncritable, cause everything is concept. I'm liking the fact that you're taking a "real" life issue (wage slave) and working it!

nice going!

small crit: the dude' left hand (his left) is a wee bit strange (maybe his thumb only) I know- I know it's still a WIP, but I'm sounding like an idiot always saying "wonderful image" or "great start" hehe

although the summary of my comment is ."great start" :)

carry on...

cheers

walrus
03-28-2005, 10:43 PM
Adamos - hey, no sweat, thanks for the note. You're right about that hand. I'm not ready to post it yet, but I'm completely redrrawn that figure, hand and all. That post is more like a quick sketch to get layout, but now I'm working at fleshing out the details. I spent a while photgraphing and having my wife photograph my hands with my digital camera... and then just ended up drawing them from scratch anyhow! :-)

Walrusmann - Thanks! The way I'm picturing it in my head, those red marks may be just about the only warm color in the final composition. Red marks on paper are important symbolism, as they have a strong mental connection with "You messed up!" Or at least here in the U.S.'s educational system they do, hope this reads as clearly for everyone else...!

Lizard - Thanks, that's a neat idea, I may have to run with that.. Some 'Old Ones' with their eye stalks beeking over the cubicle walls, maybe? Zombies in robes carrying the filing from office to office? There's not a lot of room around to squeeze stuff in, but it's tempting. Hmmmm....

Ken - Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of. I may have to go back and peek at what they did with the lighting on those scenes.

And everyone else - Thanks so much for the posts and words of encouragement. I feel like I'm making good progress. I hope to have the next-to-final line art rough posted in a day or two. Hope you're all having fun on yours too...!

-mike

ChristianHammer
03-28-2005, 11:37 PM
It looks great. Love the idea, so true and disturbing, funny and sad in a way. LOVE IT!

NinjaA55N
03-29-2005, 08:29 AM
great sketches! I would go for a more surprice "attack" of the boss. So the servant didnt expect him and that squid or something came from the back and surpriced him rather than an eye to eye meeting. just an opinion. That middle sketch of the three u posted before ur last one seems pretty nice to me. :)

BlackDidThis
03-29-2005, 08:43 AM
Lol, living up to your nick NinjaASSN? :)

Hehehe.. that WOULD be a sit to see. I can imagine a variaty of bosses such. though.. sneaking in to make sure they can catch you anattended for. That would still be a real life depiction now wouldn't it?


I get what you mean about the pinstripes now Walrus. It is sort of the 50-60 era banker's suit.. Yeah that would look so contrastingly perfect. Alot of thoughts going into this image. I hope you are aware that we are all very anxiously awaiting an update here!

As for the mirroring bit... I think I have to agree with that. Especially at the period of having to draw/paint photorealistic advertisments, I had to use transfer papers alot, and would redraw the image on reverse then scribble them onto a clean sheet or canvas. And sometimes I would notice that things actually would look alot better in the reversed version; so I would then just scribble on the rear side of the original sketch. It is always useful to 'browse' through your work.
While I usually turn my canvas upside down infact.. this keeps me from envolving myself with the arm being an arm.. or the head being a head.. but just a set of masses that are getting affected by the aquainted light.

Hope all is going great on your part (Your updates so far sure did!)

Black

walrus
03-29-2005, 05:48 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112118494_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112118494_large.jpg)

Well, here's where we are now: I've drawn over the human character. And somewhere around 1am this morning i got the urge to sketch some more and came up with a revision of the boss' head and tentacles. Oh and I also took Lizard's idea and stuck a slightly different kind of coworker in the background there. I like it, and may do something similar with some (but not all) of the other coworkers. I drew this great snake in an oxford shirt and a tie, holding a cup of coffee in his tail, but it didn't fit anywhere in the shot... Oh well!

I still need to fix a lot of details and redraw the boss, too. (and that's just to get rough line art complete: After I'm done I'll redraw all the lines more pretty-like.)

-mike

walrus
03-29-2005, 05:53 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112118780_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112118780_large.jpg)

I wasn't going to post this but seeing Andreas Rocha's wonderful results of his personal photoshoot (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=222437&page=1&pp=30 ) I figured, what the heck. So this weird image is the result of a really ugly cut and paste job with a whole bunch of photos I and my wife took of me with my digital camera. Some of the shots were obtained by shooting myself in the mirror (not nearly as painful as shooting yourself in the foot.) And some my wife took of me, trying to match my pose to the 2D sketch i'd drawn. But a lot of that didn't really work, hence so much cut and paste. That's her face on the human, not mine - please forgive her, she just finished a work-out and is not looking her best. All other body parts are mine, more or less. I don't plan on using this religiously at all, it's mostly just a nice guide to how fabric wrinkles. And I figured folks might get a kick out of it!

-mike

NOOB!
03-29-2005, 06:04 PM
hahhah thats great!

ChristianHammer
03-29-2005, 06:11 PM
When I get to the point of working on specific facial expressions, fabric folds, body positions I usually start by standing in front of a mirror and acting it out. Once I get what I am looking for I shoot it. For 3d I set up a floor with tape placements for the camera, and marks for my feet, point to look at etc. Really makes it easy to get what you are looking for.

I love this project looking forward to more updates!

MoonVisionStudio
03-29-2005, 06:23 PM
That is funny! I cant wait to see you start pushin some pixels!

walrus
03-29-2005, 06:26 PM
Hamma - Thanks! Great idea! Until I'd read your post, I'd completely forgotten about the fact that I actually own a tripod. I'm good for now, but next time, I'll give it a shot.

Jose - I am pushing some pixels now, they just happen to only be black, white, and blue ones! :-)

-m

ChristianHammer
03-29-2005, 06:30 PM
Downside is you have to remember to change the lighting to be congruent through the image. I don't do that for the photos, but when I get to the rendering have to be conscious of it.

M477
03-29-2005, 06:33 PM
Hey, this is looking really cool! The photos are working well too, I admit I got my girlfriend to pose a bit too it's a great laugh :p All I can suggest is that your master looks so big and tall that perhaps he would be pushing up and damaging the suspended ceiling, this would also show his scale and dominance (and also frame the picture a bit too). Keep up the good work!

Walrusmann
03-29-2005, 07:07 PM
thats a good idea using yor photo reference straight into the picture seems the closest to exact the reference is the easier the drawing gets i might use that technique myself

Falcorr
03-29-2005, 07:32 PM
walrus: I finally found something to improve on your picture :thumbsup:
You could check out that bossman legs.. and make it clear are they regular legs or tentacle ones? Since i dont see the knee caps.. And there really arent that many folds in the pants neither.. Pretty hard to tell how tall his legs are. OK hope it was anything usefull.

Good luck! Just post the finished pic soon :)

andreasrocha
03-29-2005, 10:48 PM
Great work, Mike! Pretty cool idea, specially the octofant head.
So did you also have as much fun as me doing the photo shoot?...you can really play with being somebody else. Just one tiny thing, but you probably noticed it and will correct it, but your wift isn't really looking at the "boss"...but this is just refernence so it's probably stupid me pointing this out.

Keep 'em comin'!

Mythmaker
03-29-2005, 11:52 PM
This is definitely one of my favourites. :)

Russell_Collins
03-30-2005, 12:29 AM
This is going to be awesome. Glad to finally catch up and see what you're working on, Mike.

I've got some stuff cookin' up in the ol' noodle too but I live and work that exact situation you're putting together there.

walrus
03-30-2005, 12:48 AM
Russell! You're back! Are you going to be joining this challenge then? Hope you'll be along for the ride this time, too. Sorry to hear your work situation's not the greatest. Mine's not either: I showed one coworker what I was working on and he rolled his eyes and said, "Wonder how in the world you came up with that theme!" :-) Well, it's not that bad, really. :-) Anyhow, glad to see you turn up again. Hope we see more work from you.

Mythmaker - Thanks!!! Hope I don't let you down! :-)

Andreas - It was I think more frustrating than fun. Next time I'll take HammaJamma's suggestion and use a tripod and timer on the camera. It was awkward getting my wife to try to shoot shots of me by using the sketch as reference, because she didn't know eactly what I wanted and I did. At least for her face I was able to get the angle I wanted. I know it's not looking exactly in the right direction, it's theatrically cheated a bit. But it worked out in the sketch I posted along with the shoot, no?

Falcor_ - Good advice! The legs still need a lot of work. Mt. Boss has both two "normal" legs as well as more appendages slithering out from beneath the suit, too. And I cheated on their heights to fit them into the composition. I'll mess with that area some more still.

Everyone else - Thanks for the kind comments!

-mike

ChristianHammer
03-30-2005, 12:51 AM
I was finally able to give a tip that might be useful to others, my life is complete!

I like using the photo composition to start from. Really like your idea here. I keep thinking it should be
"Office Space 2: Cathulu's Revenge"

ebrowning
03-30-2005, 12:55 AM
Wow! Looks awesome already! Cthulu as boss, personal experience? This piece is going to be great.

element5
03-30-2005, 02:45 AM
Hiya Michael,

Nice going :thumbsup: I have had a few bosses like that...hehe looking forward to updates :)

cgkrusty
03-30-2005, 04:52 AM
Hilarious... I love the photo comp! Your wife is a great sport for helping out! Awesome...

W-I-L
03-30-2005, 04:58 AM
thats great mate

sloth79
03-30-2005, 04:59 AM
lol... funny montage of the photos there.
loves the office look u gave to ur piece, esp the boss (that reminded me of my ex-manager..lol) awaits to see the next stage. :)

JTD
03-30-2005, 05:42 AM
walrus, I followed your Dragon Scratching piece. You are a seriously great artist and I love your sense of humor. Geez that Dragon Scratching would’ve fit neatly into this Master and Servant theme. Can’t wait to see this one complete.

walrus
03-30-2005, 05:52 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112161943_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112161943_large.jpg)

JTD - Thanks, glad you liked that Dragon piece. I plan on getting back and finishing that one... just as soon as I finish this one! Do you realize how long it takes to individually paint dragon scales?!? Not that I didn't have a huge amount of respect for Todd Lockwood before, but it's gone up immeasurably lately!

So back to this one: I had to work late tonight, we're on a crunch, but after I finished up I spent some more time on this. Not a huge update, but I'm getting closer to a final boss here. Except for that screen-right arm. There are parts of it I like... well, no, really only the wrist area, but that hand is looking terrible. And the shoulder's not great either. Not the folder nor the angle of the lower arm. Ugh! Any suggestions, anyone?

I also refined the tentacles more, extended the whole image down a bit, and then did some work on the foreground desktop elements. The monitor now looks like my Sony flatscreen LCD Display, and tomorrow I'll have to go over and make sketches of our LaserJet printer. Ooo, fun! See, there are cool things about being in an office, I certainly don't have a flatscreen at home!

Anyhow, thanks again to all who have been posting here. If there's anything else I meant to type, I've forgotten it: My brain is fried. I'm going home! See y'all tomorrow!

-mike

pigwater
03-30-2005, 06:00 AM
walrus ... really fun piece ya got going ... love the expression on the guys face , acutally the boss-man is pretty telling in his posture and pose as well

good stuff :thumbsup: ... made me smile

SideAche
03-30-2005, 07:02 AM
Hey Mike, I'm finally getting to some of my favorite (can I say that) peoples threads. It took me a while to get through it; it was worth it. Quite a fun thread you got going. Now that i'm settling into this competition, I'll be in regularly. Love the last sketch. You always seem to pack your drawings with good stuff. The little creatures in the back are great. I think you're on track. Can't wait to see the color work.

duddlebug
03-30-2005, 07:37 AM
I haven't had chance to browse for a few days... and come back to lots of luvverly pictures...

This is great!! The composition is much better and even though it's low down, you still get the impression of the cubicles. especially with the faces peering over the top. But the big boss is much more imposing...

Lookin' good....

Jezzarts
03-31-2005, 07:29 AM
This latest post is way better! The expressions are a crack up... love those stray tenticles coming from under his jacket. This perspective works well. The boses knees look a little too high for where the ground would be but I'm just getting picky... this is great!

BlackDidThis
03-31-2005, 08:45 AM
think I understand what you mean about the problem you are having on the screen right arm.



I don't know how exactly I can show you what I think may help without actually drawing it on your post. and post it here. But I am not really sure if we are allowed to do so.



What I think may help you out would be to pull the wrist off the folder. Like try to look at it this way.. once the folder is under our arm-pit, actually just pressing on it with our forearm should prove enough. Or if we hold the folder with our hand.. we won't really need to put pressure on it with our lower arm. Only supporting it lightly would be enough.

Aside from this being enough.. actually it is not easy to do all of them at the same time.

Now what I think looks weird in your situation is the fact that the folder is under the armpit; being held by the forearm (thus the wrist being flat against it) and also it is being held by the hand.



Normally you CAN do that.. it is anatomically uncomfortable but possible. The thing here is that from the furry, the boss is squeezing the letter types out of those papers with each and every point of contact. Just try doing this with a folder near by. You should get what I mean.



As for the shoulders... I don't know what you don't exactly like about them. I think they are fairly fitting. But I can understand that you are in search of as perfect a result as you can manage...

What say you have the shoulder cushions bulge higher than the arm instead of the way it is now? Would that be better?

What I mean is: In the part where there is the shoulder’s stitching for the arm begin, what you have done is you have inflated the bulge for the arm, not really adding a bulge to the shoulders side (At least to the profile view of what we are looking at now).

Again in normal circumstances when we hold something tight between our armpits (I am referring to stuff like papers or books.. thin things) or if we bend our arm and simply squeeze, we DO get an extra bulge from the excess cloth on the arm. But what you have there is not exactly an ordinary character trying to wear a suit. So the bulge in mention is not exactly falling to the same area as it would with us.

It is falling to some what where the stitches are. So this makes you jacket look as if it doesn't have any shoulder cushions on it. As much as this effect enhances the bulk of the character. I think it sort of takes from the jacket being a ‘classy’ one.



Actually that and the way the collar looks more like a frill and as if it is cutting under the head. I think you are intending having the head sort of blob over the dressing.. so this should be no problem in the long run.



Now all these details stated are things you would eventually end up straightening out as you painted it. So honestly the image looks really good as it is. Unless you are planning on giving it in as an ‘inking’ entry, I would say just move on. The rest of the model is too impressive for any of us to notice.



I hope you have managed to read the whole thing ad found at least a fraction of it useful.



Black

Harry D'Amour
03-31-2005, 03:48 PM
I can't believe that I missed this thread. Yes, more Lovecraftian humor to the people :D . This is my favorite, as such. Now I must visit your website.

/ERic

walrus
03-31-2005, 04:20 PM
Hi, all!

pigwater and cliff - hey, thanks! Glad you're digging it!

jonny - yeah, the perspective is working at making the boss look imposing (and some strong shadowing will help even more.) Thanks for the initial push to lower the camera! I wasn't sure it was going to work but it turned out good. I've been working this morning at sketches of the ceiling and the flourescent lights, etc., really help it look even more like an office, even though there aren't any cubicle-tops any more.

jezzarts - oh, the knees are totally too high! :-) I had to really exaggerate some stuff to make the composition work, and the legs are one of those things... Well, two of them. Don't tell anyone, but the boss is really standing on a large stack of copier paper!

black - Thanks for yet another thorough, detailed, and extremely useful post! Good points, all, and I think they'll help in reworking that arm. Part of the problem is that, the way I've drawn it, the folder is huuuuge! The boss is big, but his office probs should be at a more human scale. Once I did some sketches with it resized, it was impossible to have it both under his arm and in his hand at the same time anyhow, which will help as you noted. And part of it is just resizing and redrawing that hand 'til I'm happy with it. And excellent observation about the shoulder pads: My suit doesn't happen to have very strong shoulder pads (i don't like 'em because I'm broad-shouldered to start with) so my own suit wasn't a huge help in that area. But I think I see what you're getting at.

I could easily start painting from this, but it's my tendency to do another pass and clean up all of the linework. I just happen to like pretty line work. So it'll still be a little bit longer 'til i can get to even the color roughs. I know people are anxious to see that part, but don't worry, I'll get there soon...! :-)

See y'all later...

-mike

SideAche
03-31-2005, 04:22 PM
Dude, on an unrelated topic. YOU SHOULD HAVE WON THE SCBWI CONTEST 11 Your image was awesome.

walrus
03-31-2005, 04:29 PM
THANKS!!!
But actually, I was inelligible to win. I've already won a couple of honorable mentions in the previous contests, making me inelligible to win anything for something like 5 months... As are you, but at least you got a free membership out of it. I got a t-shirt! :) It's in the posted rules, and Lauri the webmaster had also told me that, but I keep enterring anyhow because it's fun, and it's just nice to get the art out there to be seen. And i think I did that whole image in something like 3 days. Anyhow... thanks!

THE Wizard
03-31-2005, 10:09 PM
I like it! Especially the Illithid (squid-dude)... Kind of Dilan Dog - Marty Misteria type... Nice...



My Master And Servat 2D (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=225858)

AlyFell
03-31-2005, 10:22 PM
Thanks for that crit Michael! I've just had a look at your website, and I get a real good idea of your inspiration and direction from the excellent work you have there. And do I detect a Chiodo influence in some of your girl pics as well? :)

Miyagu
03-31-2005, 10:45 PM
that falling donut... hahaha! very nice sketch! like it alot!! i´ll follow this one!:thumbsup:

E.T
04-01-2005, 08:13 PM
This is the First entry to put a smile on my face.
Simply wonderful!
Great execution and great concept.

I also like that drabness of the office idea colourwise. Should be really interesting.

btw the photograph urself 4 reference is genius. Should be a real timesaver, im always trying to cut corners and still keep the clients (and my ego) happy.
Im gonna have to try that one.

:thumbsup:

kaparo
04-01-2005, 08:14 PM
Hi Michael

Great idea for your entry! Very, very funny and original! Just a couple of comments: I prefeer the first idea where the "camera" was placed over the characters and you have a large view of the cubicles. It gave me the idea that the squid is not only the boss of this one person but of many. The other thing is the aproach of the man. The first, more cartoon like, worked better and is more funny than the final one wich is more anatomically "correct", more realistic. Anyway it is looking great. Good luck!!

TheFirstAngel
04-01-2005, 10:20 PM
hahaha, really good! if i'd see my boss showing up like that that'd scare the shitz outa me for sure. Kewl work in progress, keep it up!

minduinho
04-01-2005, 10:30 PM
funny draw. i have no crits. you're making a god work.
cya.

pushav
04-01-2005, 10:49 PM
lol. Ohyeah! This is funny lol. Keep it up.

walrus
04-02-2005, 04:16 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112415279_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112415279_large.jpg)

Okay, I'm nearly ready to start the final line art. I'm much happier with the fixes on the anatomy, and many other small changes. Now I'm just trying to get the ceiling worked out. So which one do you like? This one with the ceiling using straight lines, a "proper" perspective shot...

walrus
04-02-2005, 04:18 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112415510_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112415510_large.jpg)

... or this one with a fish-eye lens effect on the ceiling? Does one seem more effective to you? Or can you think of another way I could do the warped perspective better?

Anyhow, it's be nice to see what people think about one or the other. The only difference between the two is the ceiling. Drop a post and let me know... Thanks!

-mike

monsitj
04-02-2005, 04:33 AM
IMHO , I think perspective and emotion of your image are perfect for this theme , first look , i think about master and servant! your image do a good job to describe the topic,
I have some point about foreground ,printer , paper and moniter is too line up , it look like a wall in front of your composition , if you choose worm eye view , it's hard to find the good foreground(misspelling??) maybe you can bring moniter or faq down a bit to make it vary in scale.
just my opinion , and sorry for bad eng,:thumbsup:

SideAche
04-02-2005, 06:29 PM
Mike, i'm enjoying this a lot. one thought, the tie on the man bends to the right along the same line as lower line of the arm. maybe bend it back down slightly. continue to press on buddy.

W-I-L
04-02-2005, 07:16 PM
i like the warped perspective.. is better for the mood tat you have already set. Great stuff. lets see some colour

MDN67
04-02-2005, 08:09 PM
very good draw, it's always a concept sketch, i hope you choice this concept and i wait the wip color:thumbsup:

OrO
04-02-2005, 08:43 PM
waiting anxiously for the color...how did you think it up??

SEL
04-02-2005, 08:55 PM
Im liking this a lot!

ALright with your perspective issues your asking opinions on, by far the fish eye effect does your pieace more justice. Whats wrong is the left characters body is very low and the right characters body/feet are like hes floating, you me either half to drop the right character lower or make his knees be at the bottom before the foreground stuff come into play. Secondly, as far as (background only), try moving all your right side stuff farther to the left where it shows more wall with the characters like their in his cubical more, still use the fish eye effect, but elonggate it and make it have greater distance.. Because of the perspective of the characters, you may need to make the right side as the same perspective as the two and then distort it more towards the left where the ceiling seems longer and farther towards the end and closer and bigger with the characters to the right! I hope I was able to help and make any sense, I dont want to draw on your great sketch so I hope this helps!

SEL

Squibbit
04-02-2005, 09:08 PM
if u still got the ceiling under vote i vote the straight one.

otherwise everything is as it should:thumbsup:

BaronImpossible
04-02-2005, 09:49 PM
That's a good sketch. I prefer the fish-eye (pun intended?) with one reservation - I think the warping effect should be strongest nearer the viewer, like a real fish-eye lens. The ceiling on yours is more distorted the further away it gets. Not that it has to be true to life, but still. Great work.

Russell_Collins
04-02-2005, 11:32 PM
I like the more linear perspective because to my eye, it makes the boss actually look BIGGER than the Fish-eye perspective does (at least so far). Maybe try to find a happy medium and split the difference: slight curves but not enough to make the viewer THINK "fisheye".

redfrog
04-02-2005, 11:45 PM
looks fantastic so far!

The only other way to help warp the perspective would maybe be to warp some of the foreground elements a well as the ceiling.

walrus
04-03-2005, 12:08 AM
Whew, lots of comments... Thanks!
I was just going to sit down to work on this for a while this afternoon, but glad I checked on peoples' notes first.

Monsitj - Your english is just fine (and you spelled 'foreground' correctly too!) And you also made an excellent point about the foreground elements being in a straight line. You're right, how boring! (My words, not yours!) I was doing some sketching and I think I have a good sol;ution that also answers one of SEL's points too: I think I'm going to flip the foreground elements, ditch the monitor, and raise the printer so that that secion also sweeps up as it moves to the right. That was it will help emphasize the strong diagonal in the rest of the layout AND help hide the boss' legs too! Thanks for pointing that out!

Sideache - Good obsevation about the tie, cliff, I'll tweak that some.

MDN - yep, definately choosing this camera angle to go with so far (Sorry, Kaparo! :-) ) Line art today, hopefully color tomorrow...? Soon anyways.

oro - Honestly, I have no idea how I came up with this idea! :-) The rest of my sketches were all of sexy women and giant monsters, so I guess it's a good thing I chose this one, huh?

sel - Already coverred your first point above, but I'm afraid I kind of got lost on the latter half. If you feel like doing a draw-over, it'd be much appreciated 'cause I'm just not following you right now. But thanks for taking the time to comment, I do really appreciate it.

squibbit, baron, russell, and frog - thanks for posting! well, so much for a consensus. :-/ I may just have to mess with the ceiling some more 'til something gels. At least I'm mostly done with the foreground. thanks for tuning in!

okay, now to get some actual (i.e. non-typing) work done on this!

-mike

sgw
04-03-2005, 01:57 AM
I LOVE this piece. I wonder how you found a picture of my boss....

walrus
04-03-2005, 05:19 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112501978_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112501978_large.jpg)

Well geez, Shawn, it was easy when you had so many of them posted in your blog! :-) (Don't worry, I won't tell your boss!)

Anyhow, not much to say here, just the same picture I've been posting all week, just with prettier lines. And a couple of the aforementioned notes fixed. Color soon...

-mike

Imriela
04-03-2005, 05:38 AM
*wipes eyes* Oh, my aching ribs! Dude, HO-LY SHIT this is funny! "Robert, I need this report on my desk by five." "GAH! Uh, er, yes Mr. Chuthlu, sir!" And he has little skulls as buttons and cuff-links! *cracks up again*

Seriously, this piece made me literally fall out of my chair laughing; my roomates came by to check on the *THUD* and ended up joining me in my hysteria. Somehow the extremely low viewpoint (very nicely done, BTW) just makes this. Can't wait to see it in color!

lynch
04-03-2005, 05:52 AM
nice line art walrus its good to see some one try a different type of image for this challenge hope it turns out great good luck

monsitj
04-03-2005, 07:26 AM
yes , Michael, the latest line art is the best , you can go coloring without hesitate!

andreasrocha
04-03-2005, 08:58 AM
Great lineart. The boss looks awesome!

BlackDidThis
04-03-2005, 02:20 PM
It's going fantastic Walrus,

And I love the aditional update for the foreground. I really never had the heart to tell you, nor a better idea you could have gone for in that manner, but though as I stated earlier I liked your overcoming the plainness of the desktop by the props shedding paper rolls.... I can't say that I was too happy with the foreground.

But now this.. looks fantastic!

(Gosh what a missing peace it would be to be depicting a cubicle without a copier?!!!)

It's going great;


Black

walrus
04-03-2005, 05:41 PM
Thanks, everyone! I'm glad folks like it so far. I plan on starting the color work late today.

Imriela - glad it made you laugh! Thanks for telling me, that made my morning.

Black - Unfortunately a copier isn't the only thing missing from this picture. The list of clever additions that there's no room for just keeps growing. I wanted a office sign supended from the ceiling, green glowing letters, saying "NO EXIT" but it just ruined the composition. I liked having the monitor in there (Instead of a 'Sony,' it was an 'Insany') but the composition is better this way. There are so many fun things I could do with other members of the Cthulhu mythos in an office setting, but there's just no space. I wanted the Necronmicon itself in a large 3-ring binder. I still haven't figured out a way to work "spell-checker" into the image, nor the name of the company (NecronomiCom) but maybe that can go on the employee's badge and one of the sheets of paper on the wall. As for what else goes up on the walls... Well, just stay tuned! :twisted:

-mike

Falcorr
04-03-2005, 05:48 PM
ok now were talking! :thumbsup:

Your latest linework looks aeons better than the previous one.
Only thing what looks bit strange is the falling donut.. It looks like the guy in the background is trying to catch it? But he stands so much further in the background.. Dunno?

I also agree with the messy front part.. Now it is lot better.

Good luck with the colors. Wish i had some luck with my artwork.. I'll never even raise myself to sea of mediocre.

BlackDidThis
04-03-2005, 05:59 PM
I have to agree and insist on the 'Necronomi.Com' being added in somewhere and NOT being left out. It IS a great catch. And it really shouldn't be left out!
Hey what say you spend some extra time, and convert that into a really distinctive company logo, and use it as the header for the 14 papers.. and infact on everything the companies tend to have their annoying logo?!!
Including a badge as you said.

If nothing the 'Boss' is hollding out a sheet right to the center of attention. A header on that paper would sure get the company name out!


Actualy for your long list of 'to adds'; why don't you add in one of the Mic/Phone headsets onto one of the old ones. Wait a minute.. what was the name of that thingy? Do you get what I mean? The thing aith a microphone and earphones, that enables you to not have to hold the horns of the phone on your ear while you call and disturb everybody?

Here I go again giving you more work :)
I liked the way you managed to handle the arm by the way. It really fits in better now.

Black

Falcorr
04-03-2005, 06:00 PM
Hey where are all your ceiling trinkets? Lamps? Pipeing? Emergency fire extenquishers.

Or would they just ruin your picture? Is the ceiling self illuminating? There are lamps hidden in it? There are no office lights in the ceiling? What will be your lighting for the scene? :)

Ok

BlackDidThis
04-03-2005, 06:12 PM
I think he had explained this a dear few times.

In order to capture the annoying 'cubicle' feel.. he is going for flooding florecent ligting.
So that grid network you would be seeing could be called the light source. I pressume the rest of the foundations would be hidden under it since that construction sort of hangs.

But you have a point there about the extinguishers.. one in every towo three corners would look really fitting I think.


Black

walrus
04-03-2005, 07:27 PM
I went around my office yesterday sketching the ceiling and printers. People who didn't know what I was up to thought I was nuts!

Anyhow, some of the panels overhead will be flourescent lights and some will just be textured with the speckly foam-board-stuff. You can kind of see in the last 2 image posts (#124 & #125) darker outlines around the panels that will be flourescent lights, conveniently around the characters' faces, but when I was doing the final line art I forgot to doodle in the smoke detector that was in one of those sketches. I'll probably add an air vent too, but only later when I have a better sense of where it will look the best. Fire extinguishers are a good idea too... hmmm, I wonder why I didn't see any on my office's ceiling... :-/

Miyagu
04-03-2005, 07:48 PM
hahaha! i know what you mean :) since i´m working on this challenge i see everywere nice compositions and nice things other people find boring.. "hey, look at that nice shadow over there!" "yes, there´s a tree...can we go now?" and so on... ;-)

can´t wait to see the updates of that ceiling!

Kraull
04-03-2005, 08:45 PM
hehe Great scene you've here! This bad boss is really something... I don't have any usefull thing to say, so I'll go with the little punctum I like in your drawing. A really like the skull buttons on his outfit, costume (don't know the right word for this kind of suit...). Will the colors be dramatic and amplify the horror and fear of the employees or will it be more conventional? I'll pass later to see the color progress. See you :)

ElFuego
04-04-2005, 04:16 PM
hey dude! that's the same office that I work in!! :D The Boss looks also similar to mine ;)
good design and theme that you can relate to. Always a pleasure to watch you work another masterpiece. GL&HF

walrus
04-04-2005, 05:28 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112632117_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112632117_large.jpg)

At long last.... drum roll, please... Color! Last time around I feel like I didn't show that much about how I do my color comps so this time I'll show a bit more. Actually, I was inspired by CGKrusty (hi, Ken!) who did such a great job of showing this part of his process. My process is not all that dissimilar, so I thought I'd show a bit more so it doesn't seem like this gigantic leap from no color to full color.

Rather than making little color swatches or thumbnails, I start by blocking in the local colors for everything in the piece. I'm not married to any of them. On a seperate layer, I paint a pass of a single color of shadows. (Usually this layer is set to Multiply.) Another layer gets the Hilight color (often set to Overlay.) Here I've used one more layer for the light from the candles in the lower left.

So now I've got one pass at the colors. (See the next post for what these all look like together.) But now's when I really start to experiment. As everything is on a different layer, I can now fool around with each part of the iamge and see how it works. I change the skin tones (and believe me, there are a lot of options for Cthulhu!) and shirt colors. But I can also change the shadows and hilights, make the entire picture warmer, cooler, more contrasty or less. The goal is to get something close to what I want, after which point I'll flatten and refine the painting.

-mike

walrus
04-04-2005, 05:29 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112632192_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112632192_large.jpg)

So put all of the layers togetehr as shown above and this is what you get. Now to mess with it some more...

AirbORn
04-04-2005, 05:32 PM
Beautiful colour palette Walrus. I really like the lighting you have established as well. :) Keep up the great work!

walrus
04-04-2005, 05:32 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112632371_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112632371_large.jpg)

Fool around with every single layer and go for a cooler effect and you end up with this.

The possibilites are endless. I'll just keep tweaking things 'til something works. So any suggestions out there? Opinions? It's an interesting piece to work on: I feel like it'll be best served to make the lighting kind of sterile and boring to really help place it in a conventional office. I'll have to rely on the strong value shifts to carry the biggest weight of showing the drama of the piece.

More test later, and in the meantime, your thoughts...?

Thanks!

-mike

paulwdavidson
04-04-2005, 05:39 PM
Very clean and smart.............i like it very much.


Well done.

Paul

Arc80
04-04-2005, 05:40 PM
what's up dude,

very nice work and you have a very clean approach to painting and technical. The facial expressions are great. The colors are very simple, but it works with your piece.
I would bump up the contrast a little bit and you have a couple of tangency issues, but it doesn't really bother the viewers eyes. You know, this can also work as an editorial piece.

cheers,
Archie
My master & servant entry (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=224331)

AlyFell
04-04-2005, 05:45 PM
Golly! A bit of colour! This looks smashing Michael.

DrFx
04-04-2005, 05:50 PM
Lovely colour work and cartoonish style! The part that needs more work atm is the ceiling, I think. What goes onto the sheet the boss is holding? It could be some contract, signed in blood: "I've come to claim your soul!...":p

walrus
04-04-2005, 05:56 PM
Oh, the ceiling need lots of work, I know! Just trying to get basic colors in first.

As for the sheets of paper, lots of runes and pentagrams and such... with big red corrections, 'X's, arrows, all signs of how the poor guy screwed up (he should have used his spell-checker! I'll work out the details eventually, but you can check out the earlier posts to get a good idea.

Paul, Archia, and Aly - Thanks!!! Still working on it, but it's nice to finally have some color to show! :-)

-mike

Tris3d
04-04-2005, 06:01 PM
You are without a doubt my favourite artist hehe! Your style and the way you work is superb! Anyway, so far I prefer the first colour test as the darker colours make for more impact! Also the glow of the candles show up more! Really loving this and cant wait to see more colour tests!

eupee
04-04-2005, 06:04 PM
ok now that i see it in more detail and that, i like the Boss character more and more! youir style of painting/drawing is very noce.

sidchagan
04-04-2005, 06:04 PM
God, this is even more humorous with the coloring! Love how a lot of the details have really come out, like on the hands, and great work with the shadow on the guy- really makes the squid look more overbearing.
Why are there candles over there though? They seem a little out of place.

camtheman
04-04-2005, 06:13 PM
cool concept, reminds me of my day job. LOL :hmm:

love it! keep it up, and good luck!

XIA
04-04-2005, 06:13 PM
Looking great man! keep going.

walrus
04-04-2005, 06:15 PM
Tris - Thank you! I'm sincerely flattered! And thanks for posting an opinion.

eupee, cameron, and xia - Thanks so much!

sid - What I'm hoping to convey - and a lot of this will come out even more with all of the small details that I'm saving for last - is that this isn't just an office doing accounting or soemthing boring like that, they're actually doing some king of dark works. Hence the eventual runes and evil symbols on the paper and printer scroll, and clearly the indication that that is the kind of work the hapless underling was doing (and messing up on.) The other details, still to be filled in, should help that feeling. Candles seemed like a common prop for summoning evil beings form another dimension, so it felt like they were just as important to this office as faxes PCs.

...and you thought your office was hell on earth, this place takes it quite literally!

-mike

BlackDidThis
04-04-2005, 06:22 PM
Oh boy am I gonna enjoy this!! :)

I am really having fun here! I have aquestion I have intended to ask for some time.. after going through all that trouble to depict how horrid and isolated the office settings are, how does it feel like to know that you are going to be going to one the next day?! I see you have a serious humour, but well.... now you are in a state that you are doing your best to point out the most boring and most disturbing parts of it.


Oh wait noticed something.. the candles are sort of like in the foreground.. but they look like they are luminating his face from under him.. as in in the same depth as he is.


The colouring is so cool. I HAVE to follow this thing on!


Black

Squibbit
04-04-2005, 06:26 PM
dude...excellent! :bounce:

walrus
04-04-2005, 06:30 PM
Black - How does it feel to go into the office every day even when you dread the place and work is boring and your manager creeps the heck out of you and you can't stand what you do? It sucks, but you do it anyhow, 'cause it pays the bills and it's what you can find at the moment...

Oh, wait, did you mean his job or mine?

...





(In the interest of fairness, I should add that I really like my current boss. But I've had other manager in the past and believe me, I've been there!)

ChrisThatGuy
04-04-2005, 07:01 PM
Awesome concept. Good to see a few images that aren't a fantasy pinup or an S&M pic. I hope originality counts for a lot during judging.

Falcorr
04-04-2005, 07:08 PM
Maybe you know this already, but

At the moment you do have too sharp shadows regarding that cubicle area.. There are light sources all over the ceiling. It would be impossible to get that boss to overshadow employy that much. Unless youre going to broke down some of the lights above the employee.

Too sharp man too sharp... Of course this is a wip. OK ill shut up now :thumbsup:
I know you have taken care of everything man! .. Me im gatherin reference pictures for my artwork.. Time to take the extra step beyond imagination. :)

flyingP
04-04-2005, 07:20 PM
Love the perspective here, the expression on the boss in fantastic too, I am just not too sure where the guy with the donut is looking :)

taz23
04-04-2005, 08:57 PM
Great stuff dude! :thumbsup: You may try to make the ceiling darker and use some glow on the lights. You need some contrast between the environment and the characters.

Arctis
04-04-2005, 09:04 PM
excellent, Walrus : you're improving very well, congrats, man

Tariq12
04-04-2005, 09:27 PM
HAH ,HA,HA,HAA ! very COOL !
T.
My Master & servant : http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=222506

My Web Site : www.tariqart.com

Battle Angel : http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=203795&page=1&pp=15&highlight=battle+angel

mack72
04-04-2005, 09:27 PM
Love this idea, simply because a lot of pepole(myself included!) are being super serious! Nice to see someone having fun with theirs! Love the WIP stuff, makes me want to try that technique out!

Great stuff, no real crits at the moment, just enjoying the posts!

Cheers
Mack

walrus
04-04-2005, 09:45 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112647517_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112647517_large.jpg)

Hey all! Thanks for the notes. Here's just another one I fooled around with on my lunch break. It's got more of a bluer tint. I like the fact that it's so depressingly grey, but the main employee's head gets a bit lost compared to some of the other ones. I also added a blue light in the lower right corner which helps shape the suit more, 'though I'm also considering covering his lower half with an eerie dark fog, so we'll see.

Taz - Hmm, I'll have to try a full-on dark ceiling and see how it works. Thanks for the idea!

That's all for now...

-mike

ered dium
04-04-2005, 10:31 PM
Hi walrus, Very cool work. I really like your octopus character.
I don't know what color test is the better...all looks great.
keep going!


_________________
Master and Servant (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=224314)
Leo Calv

arLutiK
04-04-2005, 10:39 PM
Wow, it's looking great with the colors.

Mordalles
04-04-2005, 10:52 PM
wow, you have such a cool style going on here. i love it.

Russell_Collins
04-05-2005, 12:27 AM
I definitely like the direction this is going. I would like to add that the ceiling should stay a cool grey color (that bluish tint you use is great) but the lights should be brighter than the rest of the ceiling in a creepy "are they glowing?" kind of way. Maybe have one darkened like the bulbs are burnt out too.

I wish I had my personal computer here at work so I could paint on my breaks as well.

Goro
04-05-2005, 12:30 AM
great and hilarious! This image has a lot of movement and emotions.
Congrats!

I love the camera angle too.
rock on!

Walrusmann
04-05-2005, 12:36 AM
i like the blue tint you added to this its got the eerie feeling of a monster getting mad but its still kinda commical good job and good luck

walrus
04-05-2005, 12:49 AM
Wow, lots of posts! Thanks everyone! And at least a couple of people have liked the bluer hues also, so thanks for commenting on that. I'm liking the blue too - it's that cold, institutionalized, flourescent feeling that I'm trying to convey.

Taz and Russell - I definately plan on adding some glow to the lights, but only once I get down to actual painting. I usually add my glows on as a seperate layer, sort of like a video post effect. And dispite how solid this may look, I'm still just futzing with color palettes. I haven't liked the comps I've done where the lights were too bright on a darker ceiling, though. They stick out too much. I'll keep working at it...

-mike

SteveV
04-05-2005, 01:44 AM
I love it!!! It's got Heavy Metal cover written all over it.

I'm pissing myself laughing at the HP Lovecraft copier too!;)

walrus
04-05-2005, 09:05 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112688299_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112688299_large.jpg)

Thanks, Steve, I'm glad someone noticed the HP Lovecraft 4500 printer! But it was pretty small and blurry, it would have been more evident in a larger pic.

I've tried a few more color tests. Here are numbers 4 through 6. Four keeps all the warmer colors on the main charcters (and will eventually be red marks on the paper, too) so that's working well. 5 is pretty much the same with all the warms turned into cools, just to be cold and harsh. And 6 is the darkest I could get the ceiling and still have it look good. I tried but it's just not working: Darker only makes the boss read worse, and it just won't work to have him light on a dark background.

Anyhow, opinions?
Thanks!

-mike

sgw
04-05-2005, 09:08 AM
i'm leaning twoards numero quatro.

sgw
04-05-2005, 09:09 AM
posted too soon, cliked it to see full size and six looked like the winner.

BlackDidThis
04-05-2005, 09:42 AM
What no 7, or 8?? or 9?

Is that all the options we have? Man are you lazy! :eek:


The warm colours introduced in the 5th and the 6'th image sure give a stronger cartoon feel. I must agree. But I have to go for 5 because of the 'Slime' it adds to the scene. the sort of sliminess the others kind of lack. That said. I think in the way it is it is a dear bit overboard on the cool with blue's.. I think you should leak greans to it's shadows.

I can't really say any more than this since I am not sure onto how illustrative you are going to go. Like is the goal to give it realistic/convincing textures? Or to preserve it as a "Gilbert drawn the hard way"? The problem is in the manner you have cleaned out your line art AND drawn your figures out, you could really go both ways. And they would both look cool.

That said. If you would preffer to go to really adding some shading and lighting tricks and loose most of the lines in the process. I think I would have to insist more for the number 5.

Well my two cents...


Black

(Lol HP Lovecraft!! How earth did I miss out on it. I must be overworked!:sad: )

Kirt
04-05-2005, 09:57 AM
Wow Michael, it's coming along nicely.

From your last update, I actually like number 6 as it has a darker and creepier tone to it. However, you're right ... the boss does seem to get lost there and I think it's due to the washed out colors on him in #6.

What I suggest is that you go with everything in #6 except the boss. Use the coloring of the boss in #4 instead. The darker suit and more saturation in the color of his skin, tie, blue reflected light will make him more visable.

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

Miyagu
04-05-2005, 10:39 AM
:) great! i love that little hp lovecraft printer-logo! and the candles! hahaha!

really great pic... the darker background works very well!

:thumbsup: keep going!

ChrisThatGuy
04-05-2005, 02:21 PM
I vote for number 6. It just seems to have more impact.

walrus
04-05-2005, 03:30 PM
Thank you all for the ntoes and opinions!

Black, there's only no 7, 8, or 9 YET! I can't post a 7,8,& 9 'til I've posted a 4, 5, & 6, but now that that's taken care of...

Seriously, one of the best things - and biggest drawbacks - of this technique where everything is separated into layers including shadows and lights is that you can literally tinker with color palette ideas forever! It's especially true with the more fantastic creatures and locales because there's not even a natural color for them to start with: Cthulhu (or an alien tree or a spacesuit or a dragon...) could be just about any color, so I tend to tinker with the colors a lot longer than I might were I to just be working on a convetional portrait, say. It's funny that you find th green Cthulhu the least cartoony: I find it the most cartoony! Green is such an obvious color for him that it feels like the most conventional and thus least interesting choice.

I don't know the expression "Gilbert drawn the hard way," But I plan on more or less splitting the difference. It will not be as flat shaded as you see now, there will be a lot more brushiness (at least close-up) and texture in it. The lines will be there faintly, not as dark as they are now. The light-hearted roots will still be showing, but I think this piece will be made so much more effective with more lovingly renderred feeling to things like the boss's skin, the play of light on his slimy tentacles, the subtle glows from the office equipment...

It's interesting that folks are liking #6 so much. I agree it's the darkest and creepiest, but in some ways, it works the worst because of that: In a dark and creepy office, a boss like that is less than a surprise than in a more conventional, well-lit office. I want the boss to be the weird out-of-place figure here, not the human. So I'm liking the contrast of the lighter backdrops like #4 and #2 because of the more imposing figure that Cthulhu cuts on it. )I also like #4 because it's all cool except for the faces and the shirt and the tie 9and the eventual markings on the paper: All the warm colors should grap the eye to the most important areas in the center of the page.) But bak to #6, maybe Cthulhu well stand out more if I make some tweaks, so Kirt, I'll definitely give your siggestion a shot. But I'm also thinking of some tweaks on #2, its polar opposite, to see if I can make the human read better without ruining what i like about the piece.

Sure it's a lot of time doing color tests but I have plently of time and this is one of my favorite parts of the process! :-) More some time today or tonight...

-mike

BlackDidThis
04-05-2005, 03:56 PM
...It's funny that you find th green Cthulhu the least cartoony: I find it the most cartoony! Green is such an obvious color for him that it feels like the most conventional and thus least interesting choice... I understand your point... but I like the idea of slime to mucus. And with the more brown or red versions the Octopus/Squid/CuttleFish refference was screaming out.
What I liked about The Call of Cthulhu' was the way he is siad to possibly best be depicted as a with a head shaped like an octopus. He sort of tried to do his best to avoid us making sure we grasped what it looked like. Sort of allowing us to make up the rest.
And the other colour selections you had gone to just made me say 'Squid' with out even thinking in between. For #5 I had to pause and then relate him to ressemble a squid... get my point?
Well none the less thats just my reasonings. And I loved the way you took the time to care and think about it. As I look at it again, I am more sure that I would go for 5... It's all up to you at the end of it. I totally understand your point about the typical for an alien. If it is going to remain te way it is. Maybe you would be better off non-green.

If you are tending to go for the darkenings in the version 6... Well all I personally would hope you to do is to darken the lower parts of the cubicles, gradienting them upwards; instead of darkening them as they are... Thus also leaving the flourescent lights as they are.

All up to you here Mike.. And to what you have shown us so far ... you can't go wrong:thumbsup:


Black

Tommy Lee
04-05-2005, 04:40 PM
The only thing I can say is: Excellent!:thumbsup:
As for the colorchoice I would go for 5 or 6.

Cheerz buddy!

brianl
04-05-2005, 04:50 PM
Mike,

For what it's worth, version 4 is my vote...just seems to read the best.

Brian

walrus
04-05-2005, 06:27 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112722071_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112722071_large.jpg)

Okay, because you demanded test 7 through 9...!

Well, no, actually Black "demanded" #5, but it's out of the running now, sorry! Just wasn't doing it for me. You can tell what has been doing it for me, because my different color tests are all starting to look the same, or similar. Which means I'm reaching some sort of a decision, that's how I can tell.

So these are three more, based on some of the best ones of recent posts. The crossed-off numbers indicate their origina, and the new red numbers indicate the new designation (just so that you can communicate about them clearly, if you feel the need.

#7 takes everything i liked about #2, but adds a more contrasting shirt and cubicle walls to read better. I'd already liked #4 before, but made a few small tweaks and called it #8. And #9 makes some of the changes suggested by Kirt and Black.

I don't know, myself, I need some time away from it right now. (Not a lot, don't worry!)

-mike

Walrusmann
04-05-2005, 08:18 PM
definitly number 9 it keeps that dark feel that im liking about theis peice thats what i think

Slav
04-05-2005, 08:21 PM
this is comming out really well... however i dont know but the candle light seems occuard in the office... anywho its subjective i know. :)

more more more!

Juji
04-05-2005, 08:37 PM
9! Make it nine! Nine is the best.

NinjaA55N
04-05-2005, 10:06 PM
Unfortunately I really dont have time to analyse and comment this most exellent pic, so Im just popping in to say go with no. 9. Its the best. and keep the good work mate :) cya!

spacesnail
04-05-2005, 11:09 PM
9 ...:bounce:

Very well done

Adamos
04-05-2005, 11:38 PM
Wow Mike!

This is top notch comic style with absolutely B-E-A-UTIFUL rendering. I'm gonna go with the mixture of number 7 and number 9. You lose a bit of detail in the background with #9, but the darker mood is better there (coming from behind :)) .

nice to see a comic style a-class pic evolving!

cheers m8!

cgkrusty
04-06-2005, 02:37 AM
Wonderful!

I'm a big fan of #9... more dramatic. I also think you can read the "servant's" face better in this iteration.

I'd either desaturate the BG "haze" colour or try it with a slightly green tone (yah... I'm hooked on that whole Matrix office look from the 1st film... I know.).

Looking great though!!

Tris3d
04-06-2005, 04:39 PM
Yep, think I agree with everyone else with the number nine choice! Looking great!

walrus
04-06-2005, 05:14 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112804067_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112804067_large.jpg)

Well, okay then! Now that we've all agreed more or less on the color scheme, I can get down to flattening and painting the image... As well as adding all sorts of nerdy little details in the background.

I suspect that this one may not be picked up by a lot of people, as I have no idea how international the corporate use of "inspirational calenders" and posters is. But here in the U.S., these kind of posters with mottos like "teamwork" and "perseverance" and "leadership" (always over a gorgeous scenic image)are a mainstay of corprate culture (or at least perceived as such.) Seemed fitting for the office depicted here. So, if it resonates with you, cool. If not, don't worry about it! :-)

Bigger details later...

Oh, and thanks to EVERYONE who took the time to post their thoughs on the palette choices!

-mike

camtheman
04-06-2005, 05:29 PM
Dude,

love the calendar idea, this is REALLY starting to remind me of my current day job! LOL...

Nice work, can't wait to see the larger details... :applause:

My M/S entry:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.ph...Cameron+Gardner

My GSO entry:

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge...18166_large.jpg

ebrowning
04-06-2005, 05:31 PM
Hey Mike,

Damn this is good! I really like seeing the progression. Be careful with that calender, I believe it's copywritten. Also, since the one you're showing is a spoof of the real ones, (and if you're not concerned with copyrighthttp://www.cgtalk.com/images/icons/icon10.gif), it might better serve your image to use a real one. Those "inspirational" posters and calenders are so dry and vapid, having one in there with cthulu could be really funny- just a thought.

MDN67
04-06-2005, 05:31 PM
For me the 9 is the best, i'm sure then you choice this
the detail of the calendar is wondeful, good work

walrus
04-06-2005, 05:56 PM
Hmm, you bring up some good points, Eric. I did think of using a more demonic image, but the idea of sheep just fit so well. (Just for the record, I did paint and write and typeset that calender all myself, I didn't take one of the spoof ones out there, 'though they do exist and are funny.) Does anyone know the legal issues with using a spoof of an existing calender like this in my painting? It's not their calender, it just looks similar, it was vaguely my understanding that satire was okay (and it's certainly not the main point of this piece.)

Similary, I wanted a Dilbert cartoon on the top of that cubicle wall. Dilbert cartoons say so much about an office. Is that legal and/or acceptable?

Thanks for the heads-up!

-mike

BlackDidThis
04-06-2005, 06:18 PM
I don't know if this would be of any information. But I had come across this story of a guy who loved Dilbert and made Lego models out of the characters.
Well the story continue's as to be that because he wanted to broadcast his work on the net, he had been notified to explain all his motivations and etc with a full report. And also had to send a copy of a sighned clarification stating what he was going to do with it...
I am not TOO sure about the facts behind this though. But as far as I understand these things; shall you use Dilbert directly they make a fuss. But shall you reffer to having him presented on a mug or a bumper sticker or something withing your scene you should be fine. It would be on the safest side if you consult the person in your office that deals with such matters, if he/she would be willing to give an ear.

As for the calander bit. I think it would be a better idea to create your own image what so ever(Like you can post #5 on it! :) ), cause I recall something about using images with any ressemblence of existing media due to copywrite issues again. Might be a good idea to chek on the rules.

Gosh this must have been one of my most boring post (Even for my posting standards! :eek: )

Mike you are really putting a show here! Things are developing just great!


Black

Walrusmann
04-06-2005, 07:43 PM
i think thats a good idea for the background adds a little irony to the picture im ondering where youre going to put it but it seems like a solid addition for an american lead peice

JTD
04-06-2005, 09:55 PM
Just checking in. I love the calendar parody. We have those inspirational ones all over the place and that just makes your little detail here all the better. I can see how you're pouring your heart into this and you have not disappointed a single person here. Top material for sure.:thumbsup:

walrus
04-08-2005, 04:18 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112930279_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1112930279_large.jpg)

Okay, now for something more interesting than a calender in the background!

I spent a while painting all these lovely wrinkles on the suit (using the earlier posted photo as one of many references.) All the wrinkles looked great, double light-sourced and all... until my wife came to look at it and observed that the Boss would have a custom -tailored suit and that well-made suits don't wrinkle that much. So I went back in and took OUT all these wrinkles. Well, at least it made adding the stripes easier. :-)

I always tell myself I'm going to stay loose and painterly, and then I get caught up in all thse greebly little details and it looks totally airbrushed! Oh, well! :-\

Oh, and by the way, I this update, I've ONLY messed with the Boss's suit, shirt, tie, etcetera. I have not touched his skin yet, which is why it's so flat. And I'll be doing something with all the papers he's got, eventually.

Cheers!

-mike

teknotek83
04-08-2005, 05:11 AM
My goodness. I love how you handled that suit! Really looks like clth (or at least CG cloth :p). Are you going to hold on to your lines?

minduinho
04-08-2005, 05:15 AM
holy sssssh*T! that suit is awesome! that is some colors!

Mish
04-08-2005, 05:53 AM
This was quite a cruel picture eversince i saw the sketch some week ago or so. It's rather refreshing to see something different to the misconception of the concept. Well done. Originality over popularity. (not that your stuff would be unpopular) :D

SideAche
04-08-2005, 06:47 AM
Wow Mike, this is looking great. You are doing yourself proud with this :thumbsup:

commodore
04-08-2005, 07:08 AM
I like the smoothness of the shading. I personally like detail and not painting loose.

tuck
04-08-2005, 07:15 AM
I like detail and your story.:thumbsup:

Nightwing
04-08-2005, 07:24 AM
WOW this is shaping up beautifully. Been lurking and really enjoying the progress of this concept for a while now, this is awesome Mike! I really enjoy the little details, so keep em coming.....love the boss's suit, particularly the buttons :).

Arc80
04-08-2005, 07:26 AM
what's up dude,

Nice, very nice update. I'm loving your details, especially the NO EXIT sign, hehe. The cool lighting works well with the environment. I know i'm neat picking it, but you still have those tangency in some areas. Great texturing dude. Keep it coming.

cheers,
Archie

AlyFell
04-08-2005, 08:06 AM
The rendering is looking fabulous Michael. I'm the same, I keep trying to be loose and painty, which usually comes at the start, and then end up getting tight and airbrushy. I dig the skull cufflinks! :)

jowens
04-08-2005, 09:39 AM
Looking good, I really like your style! One thing you could try, if you're worried about it looking too airbrushed, is apply a noise layer (say just for the coat) and then mask most of it out...maybe just leaving hints of noise here and there with an emphasis on either the light or shadow. Might help to break things up a bit.

In my opinion though it looks great. It doesn't have that natural media look, but it also doesn't look overly airbrushy either.

Nice work!

BlackDidThis
04-08-2005, 09:54 AM
Always pays off to marry the right person doesn't it? :) VERY Observent capture. I don't know too many that notice tailored suits to none tailored ones in real life!


I am glad she caught such a fine detail, the suit looks fantastic! And my deepest sympathies to your pain in drawing the lines. They are perfect. Literally perfect.
Even though it looks great, I hadn't expected a red tie since you had stated the only warm colours to be the 'red corrections' on the paper. As I said, I like it. just hadn't expected it.

It is not too diffiuclt to imagine what the skin is going to be painted as... It is going ot be one fantastic image!

Keep em up!

Black

nebezial
04-08-2005, 10:11 AM
ok the concept, details colours... aaah to hell with it, everything is flawless:thumbsup:

walrus
04-08-2005, 02:33 PM
Hey, thanks folks! What a blast it is (as you all know) to be getting feedback withing hours of finishing some element of a piece. You all rock!

Notes in no particular order:

Black - yes, I definitely DID marry the right person. And she has great eyes... in both senses of the words. :-) Originally I had thought that the red markings on the paper would be the only warm spot... But in the color comp (was it #7? I forget) it was just too cool and stark. Colorwise, I've now expanded the "warm color zone" to a diagonal swarth across the page, top right to lower left, encompassing both faces, the tie, and the paper. Now was have all the important parts. And as a friend not on this forum pointed out, the red is classic "power tie" hue.

Archie - Maybe I've been looking at it too long, but I think I'm missing what you're seeing. Do you mean the man's hand and the piece of paper, or other areas too. As I'm a little dense and not seeing them, could I trouble you to be more specific? Thanks so much! 96h, and by the way, thanks for noticing the "No Exit" sign! :-)

Mish - Glad you're liking it! I made a conscious decision not to paint what I thought others might think was cool and what might win me a prize. If I'm going to spend 2 months on a painting, if nothing else, I want to end up with something that works in my portfolio, not just something "cool" for the sake of a non-guaranteed prize. The last challenge was difficult for me, as drama is not my forte. I'm a lot happier doing this, popularity be damned. :-)

Teknotek - The lines are already starting to be phased out a bit. On the last color comp they were at 100% opacity. Here they're at 50% and dropping. They won't drop out all the way. As I go through the piece, I remove the ones that get in the way, like in this case, all of the ones around the skull-buttons. Others I'll keep in if they add character. Right now they're just black, but eventually they'll be a more subtle and appropriate color. I don't shoot for a cel-shaded solid-black-outline, but my style isn't begging for a perfectly painterly approach, either.

And to everyone else, thanks for the notes! Glad you tuned in, and thanks for posting! See you all soon... It's almost the weekend... Which means more painting! :-)

-mike

Arc80
04-08-2005, 02:48 PM
what's up dude,

I know i'm being anal about this, but if you look closely you'll see the hand of your ghost creature from the back and the tentacle where their lines are pretty much connected. And also the right wall of your cubicle, if you draw that same straight line, it'll match up with the tentacle which is looking more like part of the cubicle. Dude, let me know if i am being anal about this and i hope i'm not sounding like a jerk or something.

cheers,
Archie

W-I-L
04-08-2005, 03:39 PM
loe the details you are putting in . . . another great thread!

Muttonhead
04-08-2005, 04:56 PM
Ain't nothing worse than a Cthulhlu for a boss.

NIce work. One of my favs so far.

-Sean

walrus
04-08-2005, 04:58 PM
Archie - You are being anal, but it's by request and it is extremely appreciated! I honestly did not see either of those - I should have at least caught the hand/tentacle one - and am really glad that you were specific in pointing them out. I will definately get to them now that I see them. (I put red marks on my latest print-out! :) ) So thanks, really, that's what this thing is about, helping people see stuff about their own pieces to make them better.

Wil and Sean - Thanks a lot!

And I forgot to say this before:
jowens - thanks for the suggestions on adding noise. I think I'll try that when the piece is further along, as some sort of overlay effect, and see how I like it. Good idea!

-mike

yoff
04-08-2005, 05:20 PM
Very nice piece. I do however think it would have been nice if could could have kept the office ordinarily lit and still obtained an imposing impression of the boss...but I am not sure if it is possible...

Should there not be a small fog hiding the lower part of the boss? So that he is not merely standing behind the desk but rather vanishing into something mysterious...

Would you please fix the not-straight line in the ceiling? :)

walrus
04-08-2005, 06:20 PM
Yoff - Thanks for posting. Yes, the lighter, more conventionally-lit office did have some nice stuff going for it, but just about everyone else preferred the creepier lighting. So that's what I'm going with, 'though both are valid. At some point, you just gotta pick one and move forward! :-)

As for the smoke and fog, yes, I've wanted that in there ever since my very first concept sketch. I'll get to it eventually. I wanted to paint his full form first, and then I can obscure it later.

As for the not-straight line on the ceiling, I'm not sure what you mean. I used a ruler to draw all of the ceiling lines, did I miss one somewhere? Help me out, I'm not seeing it...

Thanks!

-mike

NOOB!
04-08-2005, 09:16 PM
lookin excellent walrus.

calisto-lynn
04-08-2005, 09:27 PM
i love your colouring style, and i like the fabric. you can almost see him as a businessman.:)

choptider
04-09-2005, 02:37 AM
i saw your drawing from the begining, and you are right to take documentation!
that is an amazing smoking.

element5
04-09-2005, 01:22 PM
Michael, Your image has come up amazing. I am inspired by your skill, thanx for the little breakdown/layer of your image. Helps understand your process... :thumbsup:

kaparo
04-09-2005, 04:35 PM
Excellent color work. I am amused! Great suit design. I am absolutely agree with the selection of the darker background. The NO EXIT signs works great. It is getting better! Congratulations!

walrus
04-09-2005, 05:06 PM
Noob, Calisto, Choptider, Element, and Kaparo - Thanks! Glad you're liking it! I just spent last night and this morning painting, I'm pretty much done with the human man's shirt and pants, and have added some elements to the ceiling, at least temporarily. Not ready to post a visual update just yet, but just know that it's still progressing and coming along... but int he meantime, thanks all for your kind words and encouragement!

-mike
(who would rather keep painting but instead needs to work out, go grocery shopping, and get his car smog-checked.)

camtheman
04-10-2005, 07:38 AM
I love it! This is sweet! I'm glad I popped in to see your progress. It's a really fun concept and I think it touches home with a lot of artists out there...me for sure. I hope to see this one in print. Loosen up?, painterly?, I dunno... I think the tightness works. Keep it up!

my thread:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=227140

Tris3d
04-10-2005, 10:08 AM
Excellent stuff again! Its really coming together now! No crits here! :)

yoff
04-10-2005, 11:45 AM
As for the not-straight line on the ceiling, I'm not sure what you mean. I used a ruler to draw all of the ceiling lines, did I miss one somewhere? Help me out, I'm not seeing it...
-mike

Realy? Maybe its intetional then...look at the color test 7-9. The test numbers are incidently incide a lamp in the ceiling. The edge of this lamp is anything but straight...but maybe you are simulating some lighting effect..?

Tariq12
04-10-2005, 12:53 PM
Hooo ,that's a nice looking suit. beautifuly painted. ...heh, hee, he reminds me of a more freaky Dr. ZOIDBERG from Futurama.
Nice work,
T.
My Master & servant : http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=222506

My Web Site : www.tariqart.com
:thumbsup:

artjunkie
04-10-2005, 02:02 PM
Brilliant details... really bringing the character to life. Dude, I love your design for the boss! Lovely choice of colours too, nice and vibrant (taking notes for reference, tee hee).

Great work my friend. Will keep lookin' in... cheers!

Vectorius
04-10-2005, 04:32 PM
I love your "octopuss" character..is beautiful..the lights and shadows are amazing..i love it!! GOOD LUCK!!!

My Master and Servant entries
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=226013

walrus
04-10-2005, 06:47 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1113155241_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5662/5662_1113155241_large.jpg)

They say that god is in the details,
but they never told you which god!

Bwahahahahaha!

Squibbit
04-10-2005, 06:48 PM
so cool details , excellent pic

Arc80
04-10-2005, 06:55 PM
Wicked...Love the details bro and they are very usefull and supportive to your piece and story. Me want to see more...hehe. Keep it coming bro.

cheers,
Archie

walrus
04-10-2005, 06:55 PM
Thanks, Archie & Squibbit!
And Cameron, Tris, Tariq, ArtJunkie, and Fiolka, too!

Yoff - Ah, thanks! I see what you're talking about! For those color tests I'd just slapped in some color there without much regard for the lines just to get a feel for what tones and values I wanted. I fixed it to be within the lines a while back, I just didn't realize that I hadn't posted anything more recent updating that part of the image. But I got it. Thank you for pointing it out!

By the way, the pencil lines are still looking a bit intrusive, I'll work them out even more in a future update.

-mike