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paperclip
03-22-2005, 12:05 AM
Theresa Ryan has entered the Master and Servant 2D.

Challenge Page (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/masterandservant/view_entries.php?challenger=5654)

Latest Update: Final Image: Last shadows of the day.
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116286021_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116286021_large.jpg)

Here is the final image! I've made some minor changes, particularly in the upper right(thanks, Marlon!). Here's what's going on:
Humanity, in the middle, is being torn apart by the conflict between the different parts of his humanity- that is, the body, mind and soul. This is the same sort of conflict we all experience on an everyday level- the equivalent of the good angel/bad angels on our shoulders. This is just a more literal, stronger approach. The good/evil counterparts have no faces -because we are not sure what will happen to us once we have chosen between them. The figure in the front, Mind, is the only figure that humanity really knows and can be comfortable with, but he is represented as an old man, he will not be around for long and so humanity has to choose between good and evil.
Well, that about does it. A big THANK YOU goes to everyone who helped me out on this, both negative and positive crits helped tons, especially the negative. Also a big thank you to the guys in the CGS 'Post a picture of yourself' for keeping me sane :)
All done now... going to go start another picture tomorrow!
theresa.

paperclip
03-22-2005, 12:09 AM
Hi everyone! Glad to see you all. Hope we have a lot of fun together in the coming months! I'm looking forward to learning from everyone else and making new friends through this. Long live CGTalk!

Tommy Lee
03-22-2005, 12:17 AM
Good Luck and have fun!

Cheerz

Tommy Lee

Hillartsympho
03-22-2005, 12:25 AM
good luck!

jmBoekestein
03-22-2005, 08:08 AM
Good luck to you!

I might enter this one too! It looks like a lot of fun!

:)

paperclip
03-22-2005, 08:15 AM
Thanks everyone! I'll drop in on yours and give c & c. The aim of this comp. is to get us all working together in a community, right??

Squibbit
03-22-2005, 08:39 AM
yea good to have so many DSG people here too, have fun !

elmasfeo
03-22-2005, 08:39 AM
good luck paperclip! :thumbsup:

kalemna
03-22-2005, 08:40 AM
GOOD luck :thumbsup:

paperclip
03-22-2005, 08:40 AM
My ideas so far:

Judgement day: Satan and his followers/God and His followers.

A lord creates slaves out of stone to worship him.

Revolting slaves: master climbing up a peripice to get away

Master is coming back, servant waiting forever...

Creations are being made in order to die for the master

A big cathedral with volumetric light streaming in: The King is being crowned but his servants are planning to assassinate him just as he is being crowned.






I have to come up with a general back story for my creations but keep an eye on this thread, hopefully something good will come up!

paperclip
03-22-2005, 06:10 PM
I want the concept to be quite clear and rather harking back to the Old Masters...

coCoKNIght
03-22-2005, 06:53 PM
Ah, another daily sketch fellow participating. Hihi, the master looks so frightened, that's cool! so how does he commit suecide? had he seen this coming?

Ilikesoup
03-22-2005, 07:36 PM
Glad to see you've joined up, and sounds like you've got some good ideas going. This should be fun!

paperclip
03-22-2005, 07:38 PM
At this stage, I'm just thinking about different stories and themes I could use, no specifics just yet. My sketchbook is getting full of bad ideas :scream:

paperclip
03-23-2005, 12:57 AM
Aahh,... having looked at my posts, they seem to be lacking something and I don't just mean talent.. *though I could definitely do with tons of that* ... Hmm. It needs drama, it needs to grip the viewer and make them think about the image 20 minutes later, though 20 days later would be even better.

If I think about all the paintings I know of, what makes them stay in my mind...... one idea i have is either detail or simplicity.
That's something for me to think about...
Any tips welcome, of course!

Ilikesoup
03-23-2005, 02:48 AM
Your first concept is stronger -- is the master so afraid of losing his power that he'd rather die? Really cuts to the heart of "control". The style of the second sketch -- soft details and fine lines -- are calmer, clearer and I think more fitting for the first image as though the master is completely ready and willing to kill himself before others do it for him.

BTW, I'm sure that Kirt or another mod will be along to remind everybody soon enough -- don't forget to post your images through CGNetworks rather than posting to a host site and linking to it. On the main page here, click Submit Entry, log in and load your image directly from your hard drive to here. It won't count in the competition if you don't.

coCoKNIght
03-23-2005, 07:06 AM
On your last sketch the action takes place exactly haveway from the camera to the end of the room. Try to bring the action as close to the viewer as possible.

paperclip
03-23-2005, 07:45 AM
Ilikesoup: Thanks for the tips! Good concepts are hard to find (unless you're linda bergkvist!) and you really helped me out there. I'll probably go with that theme and change the actual artwork.
What do you think of one in which you see Death, Art and the Soul all carrying a body in three separate ways? The idea is that we are all 'controlled' by these 3 components.. hmm.

By the way, THANK YOU for telling me about the link page. I didn't know you had to post ALL your pictures in there, I thought you only had to post your milestones there and your 'lesser' artwork goes here?


CocoKnight: You're saying that drama should take place closer to the camera for max. effect?
I'll use that in my next pic. Very welcome crit!

paperclip
03-23-2005, 08:43 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111571009_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111571009_large.jpg)

This was my first idea-- the master is waiting for his servants to revolt against him and, rather than lose his power, commits suicide. This is a very rough painting, the style will change much. What's important here is the concept. After doing the drawing I considered changing his pose so he would be bent over with a vial of poison in his hand and a dagger pointing towards the door. Having a small room means I could have demons creeping up on him, claiming him... in a big room, I could suggest the opulence of his lifestyle as a contrast to the poverty of his servants.

paperclip
03-23-2005, 08:50 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111571446_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111571446_large.jpg)

In this one, the master is being saved by the servant. I'm not too sure if I like this one- the softness of the image is something I want to have in my final piece though. I could take the room and use it for my final piec though..

paperclip
03-23-2005, 08:56 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111571814_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111571814_large.jpg)

The idea behind this one is that the body is divided between Death, the Muse and the Soul. (Body, Mind, Spirit.) I want to make it a progression from dark to light.. where Death looks as if he is going towards the light now, the Soul will be leading him towards a mysterious place. I'm thinking I will put a child in there to represent the beginning of life and he could be playing a game of dice, representing the gambles we all take throughout our lives.

coCoKNIght
03-23-2005, 09:56 AM
Although it's a really good idea and would give a really good image, I think that's maybe too off-topic?

Trying new sketch styles, hien? :thumbsup:

paperclip
03-23-2005, 10:16 AM
Off topic, hmm, I was thinking along the lines of the fact that the body is separated and that we are slaves to each part. If the soul or mind are defunct, the body will be dragged down with it. 'The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak'.

What do you think?
And yes, I AM trying a few different styles! It makes it easier to pick one to go along with, seeing as I don't really have my own style JUST YET. This will help me to develop my style.
Thanks for the crit :)

paperclip
03-23-2005, 10:26 AM
I really like that concept, I need to work on it further though. I was thinking--- I need to introduce elements of servility. NOT chains, too cliche. Hmm. Servants give of themselves. Maybe I could have a LITERAL representation of masters forcing the servant to give themselves up to their master.

I had another idea last night. Stop me if it's been used too often, but how about an artist creating a beautiful sculpture and pressing it into service? We could have the imperial sculpture serving the ragtag sculptor. Something like this: http://www.wyldeart.com/Catalog/Coasters/images/Pygmalion.jpg , which is one of my favourite paintings of all time. The main difference would be the sculptor's jealousy of his creation and the oppressed love-- she knows she is supposed to love him but she wasn't made for that sort of thing...

SoniaNotRed
03-23-2005, 12:31 PM
Hi!

I don't think Leonard (the moderator) will have to worry about chains. Everybody is coming up with really good and original concepts.

Also good to see the DSG storming the Challenge! (So many threads to visit!)

I like your first idea - specially if somehow includes the little demons crawling out of dark corners - but, yes, you would have to change the pose in order to convey your idea (always the tricky part, I guess).

Your second idea is a bit more predictable - the loyal servant aproach - and for that seems less appealing to me.

I really like the third concept (and the classical look woul be cool) but, again, the difficult task is to represent the whole Master-Servant relation... Mmmmm... What if the character were to look confused between the 3 - not knowing wich one to follow/serve(?) - instead of having the others taking iniciative?

Just a tought...

Good luck!

paperclip
03-23-2005, 01:21 PM
Wow. Nice crits! I'm definitely going to go over to your thread and crit the hell out of it in a minute :)

I know exactly what you mean about the second one. I really did it to experiment with a different style and in a different room.
As for third one, I agree with you. I want to put more conflict into it, he wouldn't want to go with Death though, so I'll change him into a representation of the body.

In this way he has 3 choices,

1) To go with his bodily desires (immortality, fulfilment of all carnal desires, etc),

2) Go with the mind and achieve on earth what most men can only dream of,

3) To go to God and eternal peace with his soul, complete happiness and emotional comfort.

In order to set this up properly, I think I'll have to give each one of them symbols to represent their function and what he'd get if he went with them. I can then give him a tortured look and a dramatic, writhing body!

What do you think?

Ilikesoup
03-23-2005, 02:14 PM
Your body, mind & spirit concept looks promising, too. Rather than the child with dice I see a parent scolding a child, trying to make him understand right from wrong. Muse could be a woman nagging (sorry, no mysogeny intended) him to paint or sculpt. Death is wearing a watch or holding an hourglass saying "aaaaaaaaaand. . . time's up." :)

lotaH
03-23-2005, 03:24 PM
Good Idea!! The number 3!!!

Good Lock!:thumbsup:

paperclip
03-23-2005, 06:53 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111607580_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111607580_large.jpg)

This one is of two contrasting gods with their minions- the dark forest god (the satyr) and the sun goddess in the background. There is a deep conflict between the two different deities... the goddess\\\'s servants are floating around her in the air. I\\\'m thinking of changing them into small birds instead though.

NOOB!
03-23-2005, 07:00 PM
looking excellent!

paperclip
03-23-2005, 07:18 PM
Ok, I'm torn between the third and fourth concepts.

1) The concept of the human as torn between three parts and

2) The concept of the warring gods in the forests. I think I'll probably go with the first one as it has a stronger story and I can do more with it.

What d'you think?
I'll start the character concept sketches tomorrow. Watch this space!!

Ilikesoup
03-23-2005, 08:10 PM
I think #1 is the better choice. More unique idea and a much clearer relationship between the characters. You keep updating and I'll keep watching. :eek:

Rudeone
03-23-2005, 08:29 PM
Heya theresa. I do like concept #1, it does have a strong story, very deep, but I do think the sketch of the gods in the forest looks pretty interesting, it also has great potential.

Anyway, whatever you choose, good luck!

paperclip
03-23-2005, 08:43 PM
I'm going to go with no. 1.
Starting the concept sketches tonight. Thanks and keep watching! :wavey:

element5
03-23-2005, 09:39 PM
Nice idea paperclip :thumbsup:

paperclip
03-23-2005, 11:08 PM
Ok, I've decided that the following symbols shall be used to represent the different characters:


Flesh: A beautiful woman, dangling a bunch of grapes (beauty, appetite). However, her clothes grow tattered (immortality has its drawbacks) and her shoes decay from the ground up. She looks mischievous and slightly evil.

Mind: Careworn but tidily kept. An extremely old man with a beard and low glasses. He is holding a beautifully illustrated book and indicating towards it. He is actively happy. (Learning can bring happiness but eventually death brings an end to education and renders it useless)

Soul- An angel, pointing upwards and leading away from the other two. The most predictable but death is unpredictable-- she is pointing towards a dark area, indicating mystery and the unknown. She has a calm, happy look on her face, indicating peace of soul and complete happiness. Butterflies (symbol of transformation) on her person.
The human, caught in the middle, will have a leg held by Flesh, be sort of looking at Mind but his arm and face are turned towards Soul.

Octothreat
03-23-2005, 11:12 PM
Good luck man! I love the composition of the satyr idea! Great symbolism, I'm sure it'll be great.

paperclip
03-24-2005, 06:12 AM
Thanks, Octo. I appreciate the support!

Does anyone have an idea as to what sort of colour scheme I could go for?

paperclip
03-24-2005, 08:15 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111655706_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111655706_large.jpg)

This is my concept for Flesh- she is dangling a bunch of grapes (food) and represents carnal desires (food, sleep, intimacy). In the final piece, her clothes will be slowly decaying, representing the temporality of the flesh.

paperclip
03-24-2005, 12:35 PM
I've more or less decided on the colour scheme- it's going to be turquoise and burnt orange, with reddish and greenish tints here and there. I'll post my final composition sketch and also a couple more character sketches later today.Keep watching!!

Rudeone
03-24-2005, 02:18 PM
Ok, interesting concept, but I don't really find a master servant theme (correct me if I'm wrong), I think you should do some more brainstorming about how to emphasise the theme more. I do like the deep feel you got going on, so many themes in one piece.

Keep em coming, I'll keep checking out your work.

paperclip
03-24-2005, 05:35 PM
I'm going to try and incorporate both the satyr idea and the body/mind/spirit in one. Possibly the satyr represents the body, the goddess represents the mind and I can introduce another spirit, possibly climbing down the tree, for the Soul. The satyr could be holding some people hostage (his servants) and the other two spirits are trying to steal them away from him.

This can show how so many people are slaves to the flesh and their corporeal desires.
What do you think?

Rudeone
03-24-2005, 06:01 PM
Ok sounds good, just make sure the servants really look like servants, that the viewer immediatly gets the theme. Because you got so much going on, it could be hard for the viewer to get the main theme, but I trust you'll succeed in that.

Looking forward to see some updates

paperclip
03-24-2005, 06:29 PM
Ok, good tip, I'll have a hard look and see if I can possibly make them look really servile without chains or anything too explicit...how about ropes?:D

he ha. Ok.
I really want to finish the concept stuff by the end of this week so I can get going on the actual painting. Oh, the pressure!

Gord-MacDonald
03-24-2005, 10:10 PM
Paperclip:

Great Ideas - Your movin aheah with some very good ideas!.
Good Luck and have fun!

Gord

hhssuu
03-25-2005, 01:15 AM
hey man, i quite like the way you've appoached you idea. it's original or although ambitious. but i think it could turn out very good. keep up the good work.

paperclip
03-25-2005, 01:41 PM
Thanks man. Good to know people are watching, it gives me a bit of a kick to keep plugging away.

My final concept sketch will be posted tonight at exactly 9pm GMT.

Betcha can't wait, huh?:D

If anyone wants to donate some talent, please write out your checks to paperclip c/o Master and Servant, CGTalk....

True though!

HOPE THIS ISN'T TOO AMBITIOUS AND THAT I'LL be able to finish it properly! Fingers crossed!

digital-bobert
03-25-2005, 02:01 PM
good luck to ya

Art2
03-25-2005, 04:02 PM
Nothing wrong for being too ambitious, especially at this place.
It is all to become a better artist.
Good luck to you girl :thumbsup:

jmBoekestein
03-25-2005, 05:10 PM
Very strong ideas paperclip!

It will be tough to get it all in a composition, and it will be important. As said make sure they are in their place in the whole. And I'm very curious to see how you'll incorporate the gods into this.

Good luck and I'll be checking!!!

paperclip
03-25-2005, 06:48 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111780106_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111780106_large.jpg)

This is my final concept sketch with tonal values included. This is what's happening: the human is being torn between his flesh (the satyr pulling him into the forest), his Mind (the person pulling him down to his books) and his Spirit (the angel leading him upwards). The background is a forest, lit darkly and they are all brightly lit in a pool of light. The final image will probably have a stronger light/dark contrast but for now, I like the composition and the concept. I'm going to start the linework for the final sketch after Easter.

beelow
03-25-2005, 06:56 PM
I like were you are going with this. I wish you the besto fo luck.

paperclip
03-25-2005, 07:01 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111780893_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111780893_large.jpg)

I noticed that my last composition sketch was rather hard to read so I updated it. The human's leg is in a different position and the light/darks have been changed in some places.

paperclip
03-25-2005, 09:55 PM
Ok guys, I need your help. I'd like you to point out ANY errors in anatomy. I've found a few in there that I'm in the process of correcting, but I can't see the forest for the trees!


Thanks in advance!

paperclip
03-25-2005, 11:49 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111798147_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111798147_large.jpg)

I updated it to make it a little more master and servant and a little less s & m. All I\'m saying is that this version is a little more modest. It was an accident, I promise!

JMcWilliams
03-26-2005, 12:09 AM
hello! lol... i didn't notice until you added the new one :D
i like the idea. Keep it up.
I think the 'book keepers' pose is very awkward at the moment.

paperclip
03-26-2005, 12:31 AM
I agree for sure, I just wanted to get that porn off as soon as possible!! Don't worry, the line art will have a better pose, his forearm is way too twisted at the elbow and i don't like the way he's leaning. I'm going to go find a male model tomorrow and see what I can do! No, not THAT!

JMcWilliams
03-26-2005, 12:47 AM
good luck! :D

Rudeone
03-26-2005, 12:54 AM
lol I was gonna say that the postition of the head of the bookkeeper seemed to be better in your previous version, but now I see what you mean:D

The lowerarm of the human could be slightly to large compared to his upperarm, I mean the arm doesn't seem to be two equal parts, but it can depend on the position of the arm, a more detailed version could make it clearer.

That's all I have for now, go look for a male model and go for it!, hey you started it;)
Seriously, it's a good idea to have a model for reference

Anyway, I like the way this is going, looking forward to see an update

BatskyStarman
03-26-2005, 02:20 AM
there is some really good lighting in your updated sketches. I think of bible paintings when I see this. I think that if you go for that style, it would work in your favor.

Good Luck!!

Gord-MacDonald
03-26-2005, 07:27 AM
Hi Paperclip

so many good ideas. your most recent additions have good composition and lighting. keep it up!

Gord

Tommy Lee
03-26-2005, 07:55 AM
Hi Paperclip

so many good ideas. your most recent additions have good composition and lighting. keep it up!

Gord

Same here...:thumbsup:

paperclip
03-26-2005, 08:23 AM
I'm glad you guys like it, I started off with a classical look in mind-- I was thinking about a very strongly lit composition with plenty of details and glinting highlights, it seems to be going well! The bookkeeper's position IS going to change, it was an emergency paintover, haha.

paperclip
03-26-2005, 11:44 AM
I have a question for you guys- does the 'line art' milestone have to be strictly 'line art' or can it be a sort of value study? Because I believe a line art/value study will flatter my pic more and you'll be able to see what's going on better, since the background is a bit of a blur in places.

paperclip
03-26-2005, 01:28 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111847294_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1111847294_large.jpg)

I adjusted the position of the 'Mind' character but it still looks rather awkward and not quite dynamic enough. Any suggestions?

jmBoekestein
03-27-2005, 10:44 AM
Hi paperclip!:)

Damn!!! Seems like the server was down when I pressed submit! But I'll try and reconstruct what I was saying. Here goes. First off I think you should flip it over again. It works better then

A problem I see now is that your shadoing is very very rough. You can't really judge the light and dark balance tothe eventual picture and it matters when you consider the points of interest in the final image.
What you can try and do to get more dynaimcs from your image, is to use more void space at the edges, it would create a stark contrst between the struggle and the emptyness otherwise, would make it more dramatic.
Here's the complicated stuff; I think you could try and put more dynamics to it if you also used height(placement of the characters vertically) to depict the strugle. The way I see it is amore skewed parallellogram to place the points of interest in(as shown in Stahlbergs essay), that would mean bringing Satyr down a bit while at the same time bringing the angel up higher to the right. After that I think the character on the ground should be smaller and more influenced by the forms of the others. I think that's it as far as I can remember.

I really like it though! Don't think I'm disagreeing with you here. I just thought I'd make it thorough, you never know!

Good luck paperclip:thumbsup:

paperclip
03-27-2005, 11:06 AM
Jan,
Don't think for one minute that I'm ever offended by any criticisms I get, that's why I come here, for the great, honest and objective criticisms that you give! I will definitely take on board your comments, I'm reworking the composition as we speak. I agree with you about the vertical comment, I also think I need to introduce depth by putting more interest points along the z plane.
Thanks so much for your crits, I really, really appreciate them!

cuppacam
03-27-2005, 11:09 AM
nice. good luck with this one. some fire and brimstone always goes down well!!

digital-bobert
03-27-2005, 11:15 AM
one of my own tips that I think about while concept sketching: try not to rely on outlines so much. Think more planar. The people in the lit area seem to be the same value as the light. They only look separated because of the heavy dark lines around them. I see it as the light beams should be toned a smidge darker to bring out the characters. and the characters should have high contrast with dark shadows. It'll pop your characters out and add a sense of drama

paperclip
03-27-2005, 01:06 PM
Hey bobert, great tip there and one that I hadn't really thought of. I'll definitely use it. This is amazing, to be able to put forward my (not at all great) stuff and be able to get tips and comments from all the talented people on this board!

Ilikesoup
03-28-2005, 01:01 AM
Hi, Theresa. Just popped in for a look and see that you've got a great sketch going. The angel and the satyr are nice counterpoints for the central figure, one pulling him up and the other dragging him down. It looks odd that the angel is feeling the man's bicep. Perhaps angel should grab his wrist? I agree that the mind isn't positioned well but I like his beard--he looks like a Greek philosopher (Socrates?) Why not let the mind appeal to your subject's mind? Have him kneel in front, give him a book or a scroll and have him reading passionately to him. It should also give your image some depth since your characters won't all be posed in a straight line.

You keep sketching and I'll keep watching. :wavey:

jmBoekestein
04-02-2005, 12:15 PM
Hey paperclip!

How's the work coming along, can we expect an update any time soon:)?

You're making me awefully curious!:D

paperclip
04-04-2005, 12:49 PM
Wowee. Well, I had a break during easter but now I'm back and working on it at the moment. I just looked at the calendar and boy did it freak me out-- I have no time and half of the people here are already working on their coloring WIPS!
Keep an eye out., i'll post a new one in a few.

paperclip
04-04-2005, 01:54 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1112622883_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1112622883_large.jpg)

After Easter break, I got back to work. Bearing in mind the comments that I had very kindly recieved from the other members of the forum, I changed around the composition. I think at the very end I may also add a couple of tiny devils creeping around. I also had the idea of the human looking as if he was slightly dedcomposing...he just can't make up his mind...hehe

nebezial
04-04-2005, 02:02 PM
it is baroque, it is biblical, i like it!:thumbsup:

paperclip
04-04-2005, 02:36 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1112625408_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1112625408_large.jpg)

I decided to make the man evaporate while being pulled up by the spirit-- it pushes the concept of the soul further, eschewing the body... My line art is slowly developing. Does your line art have to be LINE art or can it be a tonal sort of thing?

jmBoekestein
04-04-2005, 10:18 PM
Well, that's most certainly easier to read! Been busy by the looks of it. I like the angel, the way you've painted her looks very beautiful and ethereal. Maybe it would be fun to have some of her irradiance bleed onto the main character(more onto him than the rest).

I think it works like this.:thumbsup:

you can probably skip it, or you can trace it*wink*.

SoniaNotRed
04-05-2005, 12:57 AM
I think about half the contestants are sort of twisting the Line Art concept a bit (guilty...) so don't worry.
I've been watching your pic developing and it's turning out great!:applause: (http://www.cgtalk.com/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=0#)

Color! Color! Color!

paperclip
04-05-2005, 09:25 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1112693108_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1112693108_large.jpg)

Here's a rough idea of the colors I'll be using. I think there's too much yellow though. Maybe I should tone it down with a darker desaturated green?
After I've finished roughing in the colors, I'm going to enlarge it, increase the dpi and start the final work. Any last minute tips on anatomy, colors, composition or anything are extremely welcome.

Gord-MacDonald
04-05-2005, 09:35 AM
this is really coming along!

Gord

paperclip
04-05-2005, 09:45 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1112694304_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1112694304_large.jpg)

I looked at the pic, the colors were WAYY too saturated, so I toned them down somewhat but I'm still not happy. Expect more updates...

paperclip
04-05-2005, 09:46 AM
It's still too saturated. I need more greys and a stronger tonal contrast. I am really learning a lot from this though and I'm enjoying it!

Thanks for dropping around!

jmBoekestein
04-05-2005, 01:20 PM
Are you going to mimick those old paintings you see where everything is very dark and the light is very hard? I kinda like the colours.

edit: looking again I noticed that the hand being grabbed by the angel is not the same colour buyt the angels colour. I get the idea, but it's a bit confusing.:)

paperclip
04-05-2005, 03:12 PM
Do you think it's been too overdone and not original enough? I love that style, very dramatic, but if it's too cliche...hmm...I don't know. I'm rather far into it to completely change the concept to reflect lighter colors.

paperclip
04-05-2005, 03:23 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1112714608_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1112714608_large.jpg)

Here's one that is slightly updated. Not sure about colors. I will post another version as soon as I am finished with it.

jmBoekestein
04-05-2005, 06:26 PM
Well, it's certainly not cliche I think. I think the colour now is really close to what I was imagining that you were trying to do. Just get those details in paperclip!

SoniaNotRed
04-06-2005, 01:09 PM
Now that you mentioned proportions - the guy's leg seems too short even though it's bent and in perspective.

paperclip
04-06-2005, 04:36 PM
Sonia: Thanks for the heads up. I'll fix it this evening.

jmboek: Details are my enemy! I love them but they take so long!!

paperclip
04-06-2005, 08:40 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1112820058_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1112820058_large.jpg)

This is the final coloring WIP. So far I've been working on the bottom left hand corner and some of the satyr. I'm still not happy with the contrast details in the grass though. The satyr's head needs to be darker...it will all come together eventually. I fixed the proportion on the man's leg, but the bottom half of the leg is now too bright. I will tone this down too.
Slowly, oh so slowly, but surely...I will finish it!
43 days to go...

CoreyArtE
04-06-2005, 08:44 PM
this reminds me of my own piece actually...good job keep it up

paperclip
04-07-2005, 02:08 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1112882915_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1112882915_large.jpg)

Well, here is another color WIP. I changed a few details of the anatomy of the main character. I am going to fix his stomach and the head of the satyr before too long. The trees on the left, the grass, the satyr and part of the man all have been worked on. Not to finishing standard though. Any more crits as to the anatomy would be welcomed. Do you think I should get rid of the idea of the man's left arm evaporating into the angel, give him a proper left arm?
Also-- I thought I could, at a later stage, add a few small devilish creatures scampering around him.

paperclip
04-07-2005, 08:21 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1112905288_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1112905288_large.jpg)

I've made some inroad into the detailing- the man with the laptop :)
The picture was a little too...'used' or something, so I thought- what do we have today that they didn't back in the baroque/biblical era? Laptops! Aren't we all into CG? Isn't the internet one of the main sources of information we have today? No library holds as much information as the internet, so what better symbol for \\\'mind\\\'?
I also updated the satyr a bit. Gave him pointy horns and a long bumpy nose for the fun of it.
I decided against the evaporation of the arm into the angel and so roughed in a proper one.
Background also has been worked a bit.
A few more weeks left...then I'll be done...
I like the way it's going now.

Slav
04-07-2005, 08:39 PM
cool work here... cant wait to you start tightening up all the finer things in the image.

paperclip
04-08-2005, 07:54 AM
I've decided that I'm going to throw a few small subversive details in the painting, so that at first glance it looks as if it is a traditional concept, with similar colors and style, but then when you look at it closer....is that a laptop? Is that a flamethrower? Is that a birdhouse?

I'm going to put in a tiny birdhouse with little imps in it somewhere in the background.
Fun, eh?
I'm also going to alter the colors a little more. More green and oranges (and not just to reflect my country...ahem...)

Any coloring tips here would be much appreciated.

Maginnis
04-08-2005, 08:03 AM
hey paperclip, I like the idea you're going for here. nice mix of classical and a touch of sneaky modern ideas. One immediate suggestion would be to take the leg of the central character and tilt it to the right, and bend it a little so it looks to be dragging to really sell the idea that he's not the one in control but under the control of the multiple directions he is being pulled. i think any way you can drop any straight angles on that character would really make him look more to be swept away. also the old man i think could be pulled in tighter to him, i think it'd be extra maniacal if he was leaning up against the central character maybe looking up to him from his chest as if to show him what he's seeing on the laptop. that'd add a nice "pop" in the personality department. that's about it, keep it up!

paperclip
04-08-2005, 09:14 AM
. One immediate suggestion would be to take the leg of the central character and tilt it to the right, and bend it a little so it looks to be dragging to really sell the idea that he's not the one in control but under the control of the multiple directions he is being pulled. i think any way you can drop any straight angles on that character would really make him look more to be swept away.!

I like that idea. I tried to express it at first but I got so caught up with other elements of the painting. I'll have a look and see how I can drop any straight lines. Thanks for the suggestion!

.
also the old man i think could be pulled in tighter to him, i think it'd be extra maniacal if he was leaning up against the central character maybe looking up to him from his chest as if to show him what he's seeing on the laptop. that'd add a nice "pop" in the personality department. !

Now, that's what I'm talking about. I want it to pop here and there. How about the face of humanity? How should I express it? I think the tortured look might not be working as well as I thought it might.
How would you feel if you were being pulled apart? Confused? WORRIED? I'll work on that too.

Thanks for the tips. I really appreciate any tips I can get. I'll swing by your thread later :)

jmBoekestein
04-08-2005, 12:36 PM
That's hilarious paperclip! Especially the imps in the birdhouse!!!:applause:

After putting all the effort into a classical piece of high arts, ach, the b-blasphemy:argh:.

haha, this is going to be fun. Keep 'em coming!!!


PS:might be?:curious:... Have you not been taking your daily sketches?

clancy
04-08-2005, 04:13 PM
i love the composition and lighting here, i can really see the transition from the angel up top to the bottom of the piece. Oh and the laptop....hahaha, i literally did a doubletake when i saw that, awesome work!:thumbsup:

Goro
04-08-2005, 07:08 PM
nice paperclip.
I would suggest to scale the guy with the laptop so he is more in front. That would help
the composition and will bring more depth into this painting.

paperclip
04-12-2005, 02:36 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1113316617_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1113316617_large.jpg)

I changed the size of the laptop man as he seemed rather too small in comparison with the others! But now the emphasis seems to have shifted too much. I\'m going to try & do a fair bit of work on this today.

cha0t1c1
04-12-2005, 04:42 PM
The humour is in such a contrast to the colourscheme, I love it, the lighting is beautiful...

walrus
04-12-2005, 04:54 PM
This is looking great! I love the small details that you've added, and look forward to the other ones you have planned. And I just love the whole idea of the laptop. Two things aboutt he laptop, though: It may just be the perspective, but its lid appears larder than the keyboard part, and they're usually the same size. Also, there's very little light coming from it. It would be interesting to experiment with having that me a stronger (and bluer) light-source - more accurate, but it could give the painting an interesting light too!

I think the old man with the laptop looks better scaled up, but I felt that it compositionally worked better when he wasn't obscuring as much of the angel and especially the man's arm. What if you kept him large but moved him down/left so that his head was in a similar place to where it was previously?
anyhow, looking good, and it'll be nice to see what you add to it. Good luck!

-mike

NOOB!
04-12-2005, 05:47 PM
haha looking great!

paperclip
04-12-2005, 10:38 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1113345507_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1113345507_large.jpg)

Well, I made some progress on the torso of the human and worked on the old man some-- I changed his position and gave his lappy a glow. I might change the color of the glow, it looks a little over the top.
Also worked on the perspective of the laptop. This is going slowly...

paperclip
04-13-2005, 11:47 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1113392869_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1113392869_large.jpg)

Ok, well here I've updated the head of the man and changed around the position of the old man. The beginnings of the imp house can be found at the top left hand corner; you'll have to look carefully, it's in the shadows!!

Magnemar
04-13-2005, 02:22 PM
Hi Theresa,

I've been having a scroll through your thread and it's great to see the development of your image to what it is now. It's got a nice dark feel to the whole thing - the characters emerging out of the darkness in the manner of Rembrandt.

Comments I can come up with (from the way I do things....) :

1.) The anatomy of the figures could be much more refined - get some friends or yourself to pose in the figure positions (preferably with similar lighting) and take reference photos. I find good reference invaluable when doing any figure work. Even at this late stage, reworking some of the limbs would add to the dynamism of the image. The figures have a solidity to them, but need that contrasting tension in the muscles to make the image more powerful.

2.) Colours - the way I work with colours is to lay lots of them over one another - kind of like inks on a traditional image - lots of translucency. Even though these often get painted out, particularly in highlighted areas, I find that it builds up a richness of colours in the shadows and midtones that I really like - try laying some more colours into the shadows particularly. (Quite helpful to look at the work of Vermeer for inspiration in this area - his shadows and highlights are never one colour - you can find all colours in them...)

Hope this helps - I'm sure there was something else I was going to say but I can't remember it now.

Good luck! :)

Magnemar
04-13-2005, 02:24 PM
Oh that was it - lose the laptop ;)

The cloak on the old man BTW is great - love the colour... :)

Enayla
04-13-2005, 02:47 PM
Hi there :] You asked for a crit, so here we go. I like this. I love the mood of it and I really like the desperate look on that guy's face.

I think, however, that you could refine the colours a lot. I understand the need to use murky colours - I do that a lot myself - but I think the picture could be really helped if the main colour was something other than black. Most of the shading is done in black, and the light seems to be white - only the midtones have some kind of colour in them.

Here's what you do, just to try something out. Copy the painting into a new layer. Go into Color Balance in Photoshop (if you have Photoshop, otherwise my advice from now on will be useless). Pick 'shadows' and shift the bar from cyan to red (maybe about 35)... then go into midtones, pull them 11 towards cyan and 22 towards green. Go to highlights and pull them 25 towards yellow.

Now, set this layer to 'color' in the layer options. Create a new layer on top, set it to soft light, and take a red brown colour (#7D3B20 maybe) and stroke it softly along the bottom edge of the picture. The colours are now much more vivid, brighter, and you've brought the grey feel out of the picture :] Mind you, I'm just using this as a suggestion how you could spice the colours up. I really like the feel to the picture so far :D Can't wait for an update!

If you don't have photoshop, or you don't want to go through the silly process I described above, just try to work in more colours into it. Grey and black shading never makes a picture pop :/

paperclip
04-13-2005, 09:08 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1113426505_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1113426505_large.jpg)

Thanks, Linda. Here it is, updated as you suggested. It sure does look a heck of a lot better- these crits were gems. I still need to squiggle around with the anatomy and the position of the main figure, I'm still not happy with him at all. The angel needs details. I'm thinking that I might need to completely repaint the human though...
I think the colors really do look better now though.

daw
04-14-2005, 12:45 PM
this is a very good take on the challenge - I really love this one,
however there is one thing that really bugs me a lot:

so her he is, the moment of truth - this is the final decision, where is he going?
and he is wearing his speedos or is it underpants?

make him wear his birthday suit hehe.. just me thinking ;)

paperclip
04-14-2005, 12:51 PM
this is a very good take on the challenge - I really love this one,
however there is one thing that really bugs me a lot:

so her he is, the moment of truth - this is the final decision, where is he going?
and he is wearing his speedos or is it underpants?

make him wear his birthday suit hehe.. just me thinking ;)

LOL!
I know! I couldn't figure out what to make him wear, I wanted the image to have a baroque look to it, which sort of meant I should go with nudity to a certain amount, but I didn't want them to be.....completely nude. That and the times I've spent in life drawing classes were mainly with women and the one male model we had......I sort of blurred over that area. :D
I don't want to give him just trousers, but old fashioned robes didn't really seem to suit him. I'll have to think more about this.
I'm working on it at the moment- changing his uppermost arm so that it is bent at the elbow and follows the line of the spirit's wing.
Thanks for posting that though, you really made my day.:thumbsup:

Sagii
04-14-2005, 06:48 PM
Hey paperclip here is an idea of what your guys can wear... he could be naked but covered with a cloth.. you know like some greek statues or renassaince paintings that have people naked but a piece of cloth or someones locks of hair convieniently cover the privates.
just a thought

paperclip
04-14-2005, 08:12 PM
Maybe i should give him a big lush head of hair to conveniently cover the privates?!?! This is why you should organise all these things BEFORE you start painting! I'll know better next time! I hope you feel my pain with me, people! I'm doing this for your benefit ;)
My cat misty says 'miaow'. I think this means 'I think you should put a loincloth/greek type of skirt/kilt there, one that would fit in the same time period as the Mind's robes'. Isn't that a lot for a little kitty to miaow? She'll be gettting a nice can of tuna....

paperclip
04-14-2005, 10:46 PM
Time has started to run out! Oh no! It's nowhere near as good as I wanted it to be!!
However.....I did learn a lot and that's the main point, right?
.......right?
.. Where did everyone go?

Kalorlo
04-16-2005, 03:00 PM
I really love the feel you've got here! Just a couple of things - the laptop is less textured and has cleaner edges than anything else, which makes it look slightly out of place. The style you have everywhere else is lovely, so I'd suggest toning down the laptop rather than doing too much bringing up on everything else. :) The other thing is the angel's raised arm and the way it's being chopped off at the wrist at the top of the picture. I know you've not detailed the angel yet, but I thought I should point it out.

There's so much great work in this challenge! I'm just exploring these threads for the first time :)

JMcWilliams
04-20-2005, 11:00 PM
Hello,

well this is coming on, but i'm not sure about the old man figure though... he doesn't seem to be influencing anything? Not grabbing a leg like the older concepts?

Ilikesoup
04-21-2005, 04:36 PM
well this is coming on, but i'm not sure about the old man figure though... he doesn't seem to be influencing anything? Not grabbing a leg like the older concepts?

I agree with that. I think he should look as though he's speaking to (or yelling at) the main character as he reads from the laptop. And with the angle he's holding the laptop it doesn't look like it belongs to him -- rather that he's stolen it from the main character and just discovered, "Hey, this opens! It glows!"

As for our boy in the center--
Since you've got the old man looking (I think) like an elderly DaVinci, perhaps the main character should wear pantaloons and tights as though he's a Renaissance nobleman. The church was strong then (hence the angel) and surely a man with a full purse would be tempted by wine and women. BTW, his face looks like a hollow mask since we can't see the whites of his eyes. Was that intentional?

This is looking really good so far -- love the texture you've done on the mouth of the cave and the skull face above the satyr is a nice touch. Great shading and color. There's a real sense of depth and I'm thoroughly jealous. Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:

paperclip
04-21-2005, 06:37 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1114108657_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1114108657_large.jpg)

Well, I changed it somewhat. I like your idea, Ilikesoup, for the pantaloons and also I'm thinking-- how can I make the laptop and old man more part of the story? Originally they were there just for the concept of knowledge and wisdom but they are too separate from the story now, so....

ebrowning
04-21-2005, 09:41 PM
Hey paperclip-
My crit would be along the lines of magnemar's- I'll narrow it though. Get the main guy's face right- it's the single most important detail in the piece so it's worth doing whatever it takes. Get a camera and get someone to pose- it will change everything. Trust me on this- good reference is so important- just do it. Right now. Back away from the monitor. Set the wacom pen down nice and easy...that's right.

Do that and you can remove "hopeful" from under your name and just be "illustrator".

You have plenty of time- don't get scared now!

paperclip
04-27-2005, 09:49 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1114595365_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1114595365_large.jpg)

I gave him sensors leading from the laptop... I'm currently looking around for people for faces to use for inspiration- if anyone has a good picture I could use as ref for the face, feel free to post :)

paperclip
04-27-2005, 12:58 PM
What do you think of the 'sensor' theme? The Mind character is downloading content into his brain..
Does this pull the story together better?

Ilikesoup
04-27-2005, 04:12 PM
I think the sensors are a real stretch, especially since the 'mind' character is dressed in such classical garb. Also, I notice the sensors attached to Dante's (can I call him Dante?) but really have to squint to see them on his forehead. Looks more like Leonardo (can I. . . ?) is giving Dante a physical and checking his pulse.

Overall, try not to get too tricky. You've got time to add stuff but, as ebrowning suggested, focus on getting Dante to look right first. I still think Leo should be holding a good old fashioned scroll of parchment or even a clipboard and hollering at Dante, but whatever he's doing should be priority #2. Keep in mind that the more out of character he behaves, the more attention he'll draw away from Dante.

I'm no fun. :sad:

Gord-MacDonald
05-02-2005, 03:51 AM
Wonderful colour. This work is really progressing!

Gord

M477
05-03-2005, 09:42 PM
The sensors make it go down the matrix road a little.. Although I'm loving the concept. Without looking through all of the build up to this point (because it would take ages and secondly it's all about the impact and the story telling of the one piece of art in the end) I like the old man looking at the laptop in a kind of confused way. It may look better if he was trying to open it as a book though? That would add a touch of humour. But looking cool, hope to see you finish


:buttrock:

ghostbuster
05-06-2005, 01:15 AM
I like how this piece is turning out. I particularly like the fella in the bottom right. I would try and make the lad in the middle stand out more if he is meant to be the focus of the piece. but besides that it is lookin good and should be nice when finished.

paperclip
05-06-2005, 09:30 AM
Well, I'M GOING TO REMOVE THE SENSORS. I decided it takes too much away from the main character and gives the entire piece a strange sort of concept which wasn't there originally. I'm working on everyone's suggestions and hopefully a newer and meaner version will be up soon :)


Thanks for the crits everyone, very much appreciated!

Ilikesoup
05-09-2005, 07:15 PM
I'm just glad you're still in, paperclip. What do you think of putting the mind guy in a proper brown 3-piece suit? He looks a bit like Freud already. Maybe he could be jotting down notes in a little book.

paperclip
05-10-2005, 12:02 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1115683368_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1115683368_large.jpg)

Hey everyone, sorry for not updating for a while, but this sort of fell by the wayside for a while. But I'm getting back into it now!
I updated the face of the central character, still not completely happy with it (I went through soo many different versions!)
...I'm off to bed now, so this will have to do until tomorrow. Full steam ahead for the next few days!
Hope you enjoy it..

paperclip
05-10-2005, 12:10 AM
I flipped it by accident...please ignore that!
Not sure about adding a 3 piece suit this late in the pic, otherwise it'd be a cool idea :D . I love your new avatar by the way! Much cooler than the last one!
....thinks about new possibilities for avatar wars...hehe..:twisted:

Gord-MacDonald
05-10-2005, 01:01 AM
This is really coming along! Great original style (I could see this as a big luscious painting!) The subject is so intriguing!

Gord

Ilikesoup
05-10-2005, 01:59 AM
Thanks, paperclip. Funny that everybody's getting lightsabers just as I'm getting rid of mine. :shrug: Really glad to see you updating, though.

paperclip
05-10-2005, 05:28 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1115746106_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1115746106_large.jpg)

Well, I didn't really like the last face I did, it was a little too plain and not quite scared enough-so I put in a terrified face! I'm not too sure if it's over the top for this? Maybe I should give him a drugged look instead? I'm going to keep thinking about this, but time is running short...
run, theresa, run!

cha0t1c1
05-10-2005, 05:34 PM
hey paperclip: matbe if you put worriness on his face...

still kicking but :thumbsup:

paperclip
05-10-2005, 05:44 PM
Thanks, Chaotic...anxiety being worked on at the moment. Will upload in a few minutes!


I agree with you- he did look as if he was sleeping or something. Not a bad thing to do, but unless he's a narcoleptic....hmm...could be a little unfeasible!?
Hang around for a few mins for an update!
theresa

cha0t1c1
05-10-2005, 05:46 PM
I'll be here for the next couple of hours, as long as u check my thread :twisted:

paperclip
05-10-2005, 05:51 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1115747481_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1115747481_large.jpg)

The central character looked a little too dozy, so I changed his face to look terrified. I've actually been working on this face for a good while, but wanted to see how the other one was recieved...I originally thought of the last expression as being 'drugged', but figured that 'terrified' might be a more fun option. We'll see! It's a central point in the picture, so I want to make sure I get it right....I'm learning so much from all the other entries, it's fun trying to apply the new concepts to my own entry.
I'll be much better prepared for the next one :)

cha0t1c1
05-10-2005, 05:57 PM
alright :thumbsup:
However :twisted: u might have too much detail on the face(an inconsistency), so I think u should decrease the details...may I play with his face a bit and post my view?

paperclip
05-10-2005, 06:13 PM
Of course you may!
When I zoom in, sometimes I lose track of how detailed things should be- what I normally do (i.e -what I did for the tree/grass) is to detail them, then go OVER the detail with larger brushes, to dampen them down a little. I'm working on that now, I just wanted crits on the general EXPRESSION. Does it work with the picture?! Or is it too extreme!?

cha0t1c1
05-10-2005, 06:32 PM
okay this is what I got...
http://img130.echo.cx/img130/3668/example4pk.th.jpg (http://img130.echo.cx/my.php?image=example4pk.jpg)

Falcorr
05-10-2005, 06:37 PM
Ah !hurry! :eek:

About the expression. It is really hard to decide which of the faces worked best. This is your artwork and what ever idea youre going with enhance it. Dont think in visual. Think of the story go visual after you have the story and expression deep in your own imagination.

But the last panic face works the best i think. But it might be in crossfire with the rest of the crew?

Eh sorry for my ramblings kinda useless werent they :thumbsup:
Just wishing you good luck! You will make it in time if you really want to.

paperclip
05-10-2005, 07:00 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1115751622_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1115751622_large.jpg)

I damped the face down- the detail was a little inconsistent with the rest of the picture. I still don't like the lips though and may change it later. I'll leave it at this for now and work on the rest of the picture. The angel is next.

walrus
05-10-2005, 09:37 PM
Theresa - it's coming along well! I like the facial expression that you chose, although at this point it's still more detailed than anything else in the piece. But once you work on the angel, it may get more detailed too and "catch up," so to speak.

Will you have time to add those small details you mentioned earlier, like the imps in the birdhouse and such?

At the moment, it's really hard to read the man's legs: They're dark and blend with into the background. I liked some of the earlier versions with lighter legs because they read better.

Good luck in the final stretch!

-mike

TheFirstAngel
05-10-2005, 11:33 PM
your sharpening works well. kool work, looking forward to your progress. bout the mouth, maybe to sharpen his cry, pull upwards nosewings and the area where cheeks meet mouth and nosewings, (despite my anatomical engish, sooorrryyy) to give it more pressure. so you could lift up the upper lips following that tweak, to have the mouth more square, less rounded and as result show more theeth. hope that made sense. keep it up Theresa!

paperclip
05-11-2005, 09:23 PM
Thanks Sacha, I updated it and here's the result: please forgive the quality! Looking at it, I see that the top lip looks as if it is leaning over a little too much. I'll go fix that now...
http://img252.echo.cx/img252/7874/croppedface1mr.jpg

cha0t1c1
05-12-2005, 04:26 AM
whoa Therry I love the eyes( so expressive)

Now u need the sith squirrel ;)
as the excutioner...

hurry not much time left...:thumbsup:

paperclip
05-12-2005, 09:32 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1115933572_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1115933572_large.jpg)

I've updated it, worked on the arm and the angel...and also little areas around the pic, things no one can really notice. I'm getting closer now, I need to work on the angel and then just the final little details. If anyone sees any mistakes, glaring or otherwise, please point them out!

Wojtala
05-12-2005, 11:11 PM
wow. Interesting idea... a really dark one. I like the 3 characters - satir angel and the reading man - but I feel there main character could be a little more stretched ... it could be more dramatic. Keep up the good work. Good luck! :)

paperclip
05-12-2005, 11:56 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1115942215_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1115942215_large.jpg)

I thought that the area he was in was too small, too enclosed, so I put in some more detail in the background, with receding trees and so on. I still need to work on this background, his arm and the angel but it's definitely taking shape. Hopefully it'll be done by wednesday!

JMcWilliams
05-13-2005, 12:16 AM
Hello Theresa,

This has progressed well since I last saw it. The face is much better. Is that an evil face in the tree i see on the left? :D

paperclip
05-13-2005, 12:19 AM
Yup!

Also- I am going to straighten out his arm and put more tension into it. It's also rather too blurry on the right hand side, so I am going to fix it.
I'm getting kinda sick of working on this now but the dude shall abide! :cool:
Thanks for your comments, they really motivate me!

paperclip
05-13-2005, 08:45 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1115973944_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1115973944_large.jpg)

Acting upon the advice I\'ve recieved, I\'ve tried to make him look more \'stretched\' and knotted his arm- does this look appropriate? I like it, plus it reinforces the concept of his torment- (internal and external) Now I need to give a hue to the arm which matches the rest of the body, punch the background in a bit more and work on the angel..
On a side note, this is my 1,000th post :)
A big thank-you to everyone who\'s commented on my work, it really motivates me!

Solothores
05-13-2005, 09:19 AM
Congratulations Theresa to your 1000 post :thumbsup:

I like what I see here, it bears this dark gothic charm that I really love. I haven't read your concept yet, so I will do it afterwards, but just from seeing I guess here is one poor lad getting the pleasure of final judgement. It seems like evil and good are forcing to maul his mortal remains apart, so that his soul finally is set free of its physical cage. Based on the weight and rate of his essence carefully observed by a grumpy Weightwatcher, he will either be doomed in hell or blessed to heaven. :love:

It's great, keep working on it!

Just one small detail I read just a couple of days ago, in religious paintings the guys on the left usualy arise to heaven and those on the right move down to hell. Just thought it would be an interesting infobit. :)

Cheers
Solo

paperclip
05-13-2005, 12:01 PM
Whee! That's more or less the concept that I was trying to put across. The heaven/hell info is really interesting, where did you read that?

I'll flip the picture...:scream:

BTW: that was the look I was going for, a sort of dark 'romantic' look... hope I succeeded! I've learned so much from doing this:


Plan everything, and I mean everything, well out in advance. Do lots of thumbnails. Do not proceed with line art until you have the composition etc, well planned out. Try as many different angles and compositions as possible to get the best one.
Use reference for anatomy while organising poses. Think about the emotions in the story and plan anatomy accordingly.
Hope this helps someone out there...I am at stage 1 but I hope this helps anyone at stage 0! :D
One more thing I've learned- things in the background have less contrast, are lighter and have more of a blue tint than things in the foreground. I haven't utilised this properly here, but I will in future!

ghostbuster
05-13-2005, 12:12 PM
This is coming along nicely and should look better once you fix the colour in the lad's left arm.

Solothores
05-13-2005, 02:52 PM
Whee! That's more or less the concept that I was trying to put across. The heaven/hell info is really interesting, where did you read that?


:blush: it was mentioned somewhere on wikipedia if I remember correctly.

paperclip
05-13-2005, 03:27 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1115998046_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1115998046_large.jpg)

I pushed out the background and changed the hue of the arm. Let me know what you think of this background!! Does it make the image look messy? Since most of the colors I was using were cool, I decided to put a rose/orange color in, which I rather like.

paperclip
05-13-2005, 04:41 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116002476_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116002476_large.jpg)

After listening to Michael Dashow in the General discussion forum, I decided to put a rim light into my work- to increase the depth of work and also to add secondary interest. I think it looks better!

Enayla
05-13-2005, 07:32 PM
It's turning out beautifully, Theresa. I can really see how much you've improved during this challenge - it's wonderful to see the step-by-step progress when someone gets better with every step submitted.

I'm sorry but I don't have any crits this time. The colours look lovely!

paperclip
05-13-2005, 09:33 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116020024_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116020024_large.jpg)

Sorry for posting so often! I know it must seem like I\'m bumping this thread, but I\'m enjoying working on this so much, putting them up here motivates me...

Do you think I\'m pushing the rim light too much? I don\'t want to OD on the details (although looking at some other entries, Linda\'s in particular, I feel that\'d be rather hard)

cha0t1c1
05-13-2005, 11:31 PM
looking good Therry...not much time left...

flyingP
05-14-2005, 11:41 AM
]Do you think I\'m pushing the rim light too much?

just a wee bit perhaps, keep it to those area you want to highlight, not so sure about the red behind the angel, I preferred the cooler colours myself.
sorry only just read only just read the incredibly small green text under Heinrich's picture :D

paperclip
05-14-2005, 04:07 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116086849_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116086849_large.jpg)

I decided to mess around with the colors a little more, courtesy of Brian and Enayla... background color..aaaahh..

Solothores
05-14-2005, 04:51 PM
it's turning better theresa :thumbsup:

I think the warm background color somehow fits better on the angel side, at the end heaven should be a comfortable place. Never liked those colder, radiant colors. Just trust your feelings and don't hesitate to explore them.

cha0t1c1
05-14-2005, 05:03 PM
I think the modernisque colour infusion enhances it...

jmBoekestein
05-14-2005, 07:21 PM
The warm background does it really well, I agree. I think the colour on the agnel is a bit too much maybe. It could be a little bit warmer I think and then it hsould be finished unless you decide to tweak more I guess :thumbsup:.

It's turning out real nice.

Ohw, maybe do some gradiation on the bakground it'll make it as readable as the front which is quite busy.

Quite curious as to how it turns out, so many changes who knows what yoou'll do next...0_o

paperclip
05-15-2005, 02:56 PM
Why, thank you Jan-mark...I'm working on the gradation as I type. I was hoping to have it finished today, but things came up....well, who knows? :)

paperclip
05-15-2005, 03:27 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116170839_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116170839_large.jpg)

Well, I messed around some more. I think it's pretty close to the final. Any suggestions?
Do you think I made him too ugly? I rather like his face, as it draws attention towards it (being the central figure and all) but does it revulse you too much? Does it fit in properly with the pic as a whole?

cha0t1c1
05-15-2005, 03:46 PM
I don't want to sound to critical but it seems you lost consistency in your painting style(the face has a different style from the rest of the piece)...becareful Therry, you don't want the face to be too detailed...

paperclip
05-15-2005, 04:16 PM
Ugh! Yes, he is far too inconsistent and neanderthal. Not to worry. An update is in progress! :twisted:

cha0t1c1
05-15-2005, 04:18 PM
I'll be sticking around to see it :twisted:

paperclip
05-15-2005, 04:21 PM
Please do. :twisted:

cha0t1c1
05-15-2005, 06:38 PM
when r u gonna post...I'm waiting :twisted:

I''l check bck in 5 hrs if u don't post in an hour...

paperclip
05-15-2005, 06:41 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116182514_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116182514_large.jpg)

I changed the face! The last one was just too indescribably ugly! This one is better but still needs work. Better?

flyingP
05-15-2005, 06:42 PM
when r u gonna post...I'm waiting :twisted:


me too actually....agree, the face does not quite fit into the style of the rest

EDIT: hmmm.... ok got there before me :D but yeah the face still doesn't quite fit....altough it is better :thumbsup:

cha0t1c1
05-15-2005, 06:46 PM
better, but the face brushes need to be rugher, to stay in consistence with your original style, come one buddy you can do it...just a bit more... :twisted:

cha0t1c1
05-15-2005, 06:48 PM
I'll be here for a bit more...don't worry I got ur back *holds the gun and cover the area with rapid fire...darn it I shot my friends*
too much chocolate(I just finished a kitkat)

paperclip
05-16-2005, 02:19 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116253140_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116253140_large.jpg)

Well....I hated the last face, so I redid it. Let me know what you think of it!

Gord-MacDonald
05-16-2005, 02:51 PM
I think you have improved the face alot. Image is lookin' good!

Gord

paperclip
05-16-2005, 02:52 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116255125_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116255125_large.jpg)

I darkened the face somewhat as it was inconsistent..

cha0t1c1
05-16-2005, 03:31 PM
very good, u finally did it, enough deail to grab attention, but not too much to make it inconsistent... :applause:
:bounce:

not much left....I hope u r getting close(it seems finished to me)...

cha0t1c1
05-16-2005, 04:02 PM
paperclip....if u ever wanna show a piece ur working on just email me...I love looking aat wip's...I can be very good help....(that way I can bombard u with my wip's :twisted: )

John Keates
05-16-2005, 04:15 PM
There is a lot of power in this composition... a lot of drama. I am thinking that this could be a good time to make a decision about how you use black. I think that you could either make the dark areas more subtle and detailed or you could make the black creep in here and there to make the lighting more extreem (that is what I would go for, but then I have just seen a Caravaggio exhibition).

cha0t1c1
05-16-2005, 04:17 PM
lol...I guessed as such :D

paperclip
05-16-2005, 05:41 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116265293_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116265293_large.jpg)

I decided I'm going to completely change the position of his head, so I removed it entirely:: watch this space! heheh...pun intended...

paperclip
05-16-2005, 08:48 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116276488_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116276488_large.jpg)

I think I'm done! What do you think?

Squibbit
05-16-2005, 08:49 PM
hmmm, this is religious, isn't it ?

paperclip
05-16-2005, 09:03 PM
Not really, no.

It's all about the person being torn between the different parts of himself.

Squibbit
05-16-2005, 09:06 PM
My person got so many parts they can't conflict cause
immediately one starts to, the attacked forms an alliance
with some other and then the attacker too and so on
and soon all is too complicated for their simple minds
to handle and peace returns

jmBoekestein
05-16-2005, 09:28 PM
Yep! Looks good allright! I think you did some real nice stuff here. :thumbsup:

paperclip
05-16-2005, 09:32 PM
My person got so many parts they can't conflict cause
immediately one starts to, the attacked forms an alliance
with some other and then the attacker too and so on
and soon all is too complicated for their simple minds
to handle and peace returns

Sounds like your mind has a democracy going on there :D

Thanks Jan-Mark, I appreciate it. NO crits at all? Not even a teeny weeny meanie?

Rudeone
05-16-2005, 09:34 PM
The new head looks way better Theresa, good job:thumbsup:

The painting looks a little blurry to me right now, probably due to quality loss because of reducing the filesize, if not you should sharpen it up a bit, but then again this isn't the final image and I guess you're working on the final details right now.

Anyway, it turns out great:thumbsup:

Squibbit
05-16-2005, 09:40 PM
Sounds like your mind has a democracy going on there :D ?

they say it's phobocasmoclasy... umm.. i hope it's nothing serious...
...for all i know it's just something dirty so I ain't gonna find out ...
not all of them playin with full decks, u know ...

paperclip
05-16-2005, 09:47 PM
they say it's phobocasmoclasy... umm.. i hope it's nothing serious...
...for all i know it's just something dirty so I ain't gonna find out ...
not all of them playin with full decks, u know ...

Hehehe!
My brother is a psychiatrist, he'd know what you're talking about, I can refer you to him!
Careful, he's a bit insane: :twisted:

Art2
05-16-2005, 09:50 PM
Hey Theresa, I must agree with the others that there is a lot of drama going on. Good job!
Is there a reason that the angel is faceless?
Check your dark areas, some parts are not completely dark with some darker black areas standing out (especially at the top). Don't know if that's intentional.

Oh yeah, less chatting and more painting ... :p

paperclip
05-16-2005, 10:11 PM
Hey Theresa, I must agree with the others that there is a lot of drama going on. Good job!
Is there a reason that the angel is faceless?
Check your dark areas, some parts are not completely dark with some darker black areas standing out (especially at the top). Don't know if that's intentional.

Oh yeah, less chatting and more painting ... :p

Hey marlon, long time no see! Thanks for pointing out the black parts. The reason the angel is faceless is because that's one of his mysteries: You can't see the faces of either the angel or the satyr, they are both going into realms that he doesn't know about. All that he knows is the mind, but the mind is ageing and won't last long, so the central figure has to choose who to go with....cue conflict!

Thanks for pointing out the black parts. I just changed them. Thanks again. :thumbsup::love:

http://img71.echo.cx/img71/7628/retouchedblack4ba.jpg

Chatting...I have no idea what you are talking about....:p

paperclip
05-16-2005, 11:27 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116286021_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/8/5654/5654_1116286021_large.jpg)

Here is the final image! I've made some minor changes, particularly in the upper right(thanks, Marlon!). Here's what's going on:
Humanity, in the middle, is being torn apart by the conflict between the different parts of his humanity- that is, the body, mind and soul. This is the same sort of conflict we all experience on an everyday level- the equivalent of the good angel/bad angels on our shoulders. This is just a more literal, stronger approach. The good/evil counterparts have no faces -because we are not sure what will happen to us once we have chosen between them. The figure in the front, Mind, is the only figure that humanity really knows and can be comfortable with, but he is represented as an old man, he will not be around for long and so humanity has to choose between good and evil.
Well, that about does it. A big THANK YOU goes to everyone who helped me out on this, both negative and positive crits helped tons, especially the negative. Also a big thank you to the guys in the CGS 'Post a picture of yourself' for keeping me sane :)
All done now... going to go start another picture tomorrow!
theresa.

Enayla
05-17-2005, 12:12 AM
It turned out beautifully, Theresa. I applaud your brave colour choices and the innovative composition. It was wonderful to see you improve throughout this piece. Hugs and good luck!

cha0t1c1
05-17-2005, 02:40 AM
therry that looks so good...here really looks awesome :applause:

congrats...now pat urself on the shoulder u deserve it...

Art2
05-17-2005, 07:56 AM
You made it through the finishline! Good job Theresa. Go grab a beer, I'll grab one later.

flyingP
05-17-2005, 08:25 AM
the new head does actually work very well, nice going Theresa :thumbsup:

paperclip
05-17-2005, 08:29 AM
Thanks everyone :scream: I actually hated all the heads I posted before, not the sort of things I liked at all but I had to stay with them while I worked on the rest of the picture. This one isn't perfect, but it's BETTER!

So happy to get so many replies from so many lovely, talented people! Thanks!
theresa

Magnemar
05-17-2005, 12:18 PM
Well done, Theresa,


Good job :)

paperclip
05-17-2005, 03:16 PM
Thank you.:)

Belhaven
05-19-2005, 02:38 PM
good job man, youve managed to somehow capture a a real paint feel... looks like acrylics. i can feel the mood from all the way over here! good job.

CoreyArtE
05-19-2005, 02:40 PM
Very unique paperclip! Tell me , what tools did you use , I love the texture you got going on here!

JMcWilliams
05-19-2005, 03:14 PM
Congrats on finishing, Theresa. These challenges are a lot of work eh? but worth it in the end ;)

paperclip
05-19-2005, 04:45 PM
Wow, I got a lot of comments from some amazing people here. :blush: :D I don't deserve that!

I'm just here to learn....and learn I did. I feel I progressed during this challenge, which is all I ever wanted to do. I also had a lot of fun looking at your entries, guys.
As for that texture...I can't really remember. Sorry! I experimented a bit with textures and different layer modes. I wish I could remember how I did it....
I got an amazing crit from enayla-- the color balance tool. I had never considered using it before, but it is a lovely way to spice up the colors in your picture.

Miyagu
05-21-2005, 01:04 AM
congrats on the final piece theresa!

very unique style.. it looks indeed very painterly, one can smell the acryl! :arteest:

the dynamic composition works well and you captured the right mood :thumbsup:

cheers!

xric7
05-21-2005, 01:56 AM
excllent final image!!
love ur characters and comp.congratulation on ur finish.cheers.:thumbsup: :buttrock:

paperclip
05-21-2005, 12:30 PM
Benita: It's strange, most of my traditional works are in acrylic... and now my digital work is starting to look acrylic as well!! How do I break this vicious circle?! :scream: Your work is beautiful and the background is very inspiring!

Thitipon: Thank you! Composition is one of my favorite elements of art- get the right composition and you're halfway there :D. I love the lighting in your work.

TheFirstAngel
05-21-2005, 03:49 PM
hahahaha, you cannot get away from yourself, u know in traditional i work in a mix of acrylics and airbrush, mess up my pics and work as shodly and conceptless like noone else i know, and see, i work digital and things ain't change :p

your style is wild, fluent, vivid and cool, so why get away from it! hehe, just keep it up and let it flow! oh, and congrats again on your final. best of luck!

blakbird
05-25-2005, 08:04 AM
Interesting approach.
Best wishes.

paperclip
05-25-2005, 11:50 PM
hahahaha, you cannot get away from yourself, u know in traditional i work in a mix of acrylics and airbrush, mess up my pics and work as shodly and conceptless like noone else i know, and see, i work digital and things ain't change :p

your style is wild, fluent, vivid and cool, so why get away from it! hehe, just keep it up and let it flow! oh, and congrats again on your final. best of luck!

Ha, I know exactly what you mean. It's kind of irritating in a way, but I guess that's how you arrive at your style. I think your challenge pic is lovely though!! I'm better in traditional media- I've only been painting digitally since dec/jan. I've been painting much longer. Um. Not sure if I should say that- better to let you all think I'm a genius or something, haha. :scream:

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