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ace4016
03-22-2005, 12:04 AM
James Marcelin has entered the Master and Servant 3D.

Challenge Page (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/masterandservant/view_entries.php?challenger=5653)

Latest Update: Final Image: Mission Failed
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1116398943_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1116398943_large.jpg)

This is it guys and gals. It's been a fun one.

:::Title:::
Mission Failed

:::Story:::
The Jovad government has been conquering neighboring nations for the past 10 years. The reach of their empire had finally gotten to the Arkanian nation, a nation known for thier advance technology and military strength. The Arkanians had been putting up a fight for a while, but the Jovadian forces were jsut to powerful. Although the Jovadians defeated the Arkanians, large numbers of Arkanians band together to create a rebel force that stopped the Jovadian forces from continuing on thier conquest of other nations. The Arkanian rebel forces began to gather rebel forces from other Jovad conquered nations to assist in the fight. As punishment to the non-rebel Arkanians, The Jovad government has been oppressing the Arkanian people severely.

The Jovad governemt finally got fed up with the fact that a rebel group was holding them back and started counter strike operation to get rid of all the rebel force. They began kidnapping and forcing Arkanian scientist and engineers to work on weaponry to overpower the Arkanian forces. One of the best Arkanian robotics engineer was most desired by the Javadian military, but he was also one of the hardest to capture. The Jovadian military found out that the engineer had a daughter, who they kidnapped and held captive to force the engineer to work for them. He was lead engineer on the contruction of a robotic super soldier, a warmachine. The engineer planned to get his daughter away from the facility, and use the opportunity of having all the resources available to him and the other scientist to make a weapon strong enough to give the Arkanian rebels an upper hand in the fight against the Jovad. The rest of the scientist and engineers agree, and secretly programmed the robot to obey the engineer's daughter only.

All testing and prototype work was done, and it was time to release the robot, AAU, on its first official mission. He was to be carried off the base, brought to a location near a an old Arkanian city, that was destroyed during the conquest of the Jovad. This area was known for housing a primary rebel force that has been cuasing trouble lately. As AAU was being released, the engineer signaled his daughter to stand next to him, so that he can pick her up and run. The engineer quickly ran to the base gates to shut them after AAU and his daughter escaped. We was successful, but was shot after he closed them. Much of the Jovadian military was locked in the base for enough time to let AAU and the littel girl escape, but some units were able to chase the two. During the fight to get away, AAU came to clsoe to an explosion, and the some debris hit the little girl. AAU successfully stopped the forces that got through, but the little girl was hurt, and he was to close to the base to administor first aid to the little girl. He had to slowly walk away from the scene of the fight with his injured master, knocked out in his arms. Although a robot, he was heart broken: he felt he had failed to protect his beloved master and friend.

ace4016
03-22-2005, 12:08 AM
Hm, I think im still a slow modeller so i better get started soon. Might show a concpet sketch soon (if I decide to sketch). Wish me luck.

edit: Forgot to wish you all good luck. Lets make sure the 2d entries don't beat the 3d entries (nothing against you guys). Looks like i'll be losing sleep these two months(nothing out of the usual).

CGmonkey
03-22-2005, 12:37 AM
Hey man, I hope you all the luck and skill.. I'll be watching you!

Kid-Mesh
03-22-2005, 12:38 AM
Have Fun and Good Luck :thumbsup:

ace4016
03-22-2005, 12:41 AM
Thanks guys. I think my hands are getting too anxious, im going to sketch now.

MCronin
03-22-2005, 12:43 AM
Best of luck to you

TheFirstAngel
03-22-2005, 12:48 AM
best luck to you, show us what you're made of :)

Shaykai
03-22-2005, 12:55 AM
Good luck james!

SheepFactory
03-22-2005, 01:20 AM
good luck to you too!

ArtisticVisions
03-22-2005, 01:35 AM
Bets of luck to you. :)

Lordrych
03-22-2005, 01:58 AM
Definatley good luck buddy!

mmoir
03-22-2005, 02:07 AM
Hey James,

Good luck in the challenge.
Mike

ace4016
03-22-2005, 02:12 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1111461159_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1111461159_large.jpg)

Not the best sketch you'll see, and it might be confusing, but here is one of my concepts.

leitchy
03-22-2005, 02:16 AM
have you got any story to it yet?

I'd like to hear

arLutiK
03-22-2005, 02:16 AM
Best of luck to you.

Do you think you could explain your sketch, it would help understanding it (can't wait to see the new one)

ace4016
03-22-2005, 02:50 AM
Hehe, I was actually just going to explain, just wasnt sure if the note box would appear in the thread. So here we go:

Concept 01 story:

The big human like figure is a robot designed by one of the greatest robot engineers (:D), who was suppose to great a super bot for the governement (the super robot you see in the sketch). The engineer's daughter is the only person he has since his entire family died, and the government forced the girl and him to live on a base. The robot was meant to be one of many super bots produced for war. The government's intentions of war are for oppression and conquest, something the engineer is against. So, he finally makes the robot, and plans to get the robot and his daughter away from the military base and out of reach of the government to a rebellion group currently being oppressed and fighting against the government. His plans are uncovered and he had to sacrifce his life so that the robot and his daughter could get away safely, but getting out the base was one thing, getting away from the base entirely and towards the rebels was another task, which is being depicted. The engineer programmed the bot to serve and protect his daughter, she is given full control of the robot, and that would be the reason the government is trying to get her too. I can't draw but the image in my head is more dramatic and action packed then the sketch. I hope to show determination and concern in the robot; and sadness, worryness(yes i know), and a sense of safeness in the arms of her servent and friend(forgot to mention that, they are friends).

Some other ideas I have are; a women warrior and her faithful hunting beast; and a man and his monkey. I have a few more, but I'll think about whether thier worth it. Then again im second guessing the first concept (too many ideas poppong in now).

Climax
03-22-2005, 02:53 AM
Wellcome Ace! I am glad to see u here! :thumbsup: good luck buddy!

alex.h.
03-22-2005, 03:32 AM
good luck to you to, Ace. :thumbsup:

MDN67
03-22-2005, 07:16 AM
good luck, and i m wait the next scretch for crits

userBrian
03-22-2005, 07:25 AM
Kcul lucK to you too Ace.

Kyena
03-22-2005, 07:36 AM
Good luck to you too Ace :)

arturro
03-22-2005, 07:44 AM
Hi there mate!
Nice story, but on your concept there is to small focus on the characters:)

good luck!:bounce:

Squibbit
03-22-2005, 07:59 AM
hey good to see u here and to see that u got started already , I'm gonna have my
first sketch up soon too i hope! nice story!

Versiden
03-22-2005, 08:20 AM
hey there

welcome to the challenge..

hope you will flesh out your sketches a bit more before modelling, robot and mechanic designs especially.

goodluck

ace4016
03-22-2005, 08:26 AM
Thanks all. I'll try to do my very best with the time allotted to me. I was so anxious about my idea, i just had to get it down on paper quickly, I'll try making a better sketch although I will still use stick figures.

arturro - in my head the picture was closer to the characters and the robots arm sticking out was actually cut out of the scene. When it comes to drawing, what I think and what I draw are almost never the same.

I think i am dropping the other two concepts for sure, too cliche. I think I am goign to keep the story concept, but now I question how the robot should be carrying the girl to better show the master-servant/friend relationship between the two. When I get to modeling the individual characters, i'll attept to create what they should look like, and i think I am changing the terrain a bit (its suppose to be somewhere in a desert with platues). The only thing i can draw is architecture, but i was rushing it in the concept sketch, but I may not even add the base they are escaping from. I have to think about a few more things, still getting bombarded with ideas. Hopefully I will have a somewhat descent and final sketch soon, im not sure how fast i can model, plus the anxiety is killing me:scream: .

Shaykai
03-22-2005, 08:58 AM
arturro - in my head the picture was closer to the characters and the robots arm sticking out was actually cut out of the scene. When it comes to drawing, what I think and what I draw are almost never the same.

Hahaha, that is true in my case as well :) As long as you get it out in some medium you should be ok :) (hopefully 3d will be that medium since you are in the 3d challenge!)

Shaykai

Lemog
03-22-2005, 10:03 AM
Whaouw... Speedy Ace... you start very strong... sketches... story... surely... you win... you must win :thumbsup:

Good luck James :D

ace4016
03-22-2005, 10:11 AM
haha, me? win? I think it is unlikely, but who knows. Kind words Lemog. My only goal is to get better. I was so anxious when drawing that sketch, I'll take more time later. I should go to bed though, its 6am here, but im not sleepy:shrug: (i blame the chalenge).

Fahrija
03-22-2005, 11:24 AM
hi ace,

good luck to you.

the sketch is a in a very early stage to give a comment but I also would say it could be good if you zoom in more. That gives you the possibility to show more details to the maincharacters.

fahrija

Alberto_Ro
03-22-2005, 11:56 AM
Good luck, James!
I agree with arlutik, you should explain that sketch, cause like this itīs a bit hard to understand it...

AirbORn
03-22-2005, 02:58 PM
I reallize that this is your first challenge? Good luck, you'll have a lot of fun just like everyone else here. :)

Lemog
03-22-2005, 03:48 PM
haha, me? win? I think it is unlikely, but who knows.
You know, the first challenge to win here is not this one with prices... the most important is to take pleasure to create... with a good band of guys and girls... and for sure learning a lot in your art... and after each challenge, each personal challenge, you will be better... for me, it's the most important... then, in first, win yours and maybe, the CgTalk one :D

There's no secret to be better and eventually win a challenge, we must work, and always work more... don't exist a lot of artists who can do easily a masterpierce, at each time... as a lot of people, we must working a lot... but for our pleasure...

Run Ace :bounce:

coldfront
03-22-2005, 05:25 PM
best of luck to you!

Virtuoso
03-22-2005, 08:31 PM
Hi james........So you jumped into the "Challenge fires" I see.......;) .....Have fun,and all the best to you......It'll be both fun & rewarding to you in many ways.......See you when you get deeper into the action.......:arteest:

ace4016
03-22-2005, 10:36 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1111534616_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1111534616_large.jpg)

Ok, here is a better representation with CS bones. I would like the scene to be a little bit big, but portrait and focused on the characters is what i pictured in my head. Hard to see in the picture but his left leg is the one on the ground. For some reason i cant picture the background, but as time goes by, I will have something. Later tonight I'll start working on the drawings of the two individual characters. Hope the picture above is clear. Here, the robot is shooting somebody/something, determined to keep his master safe. I'm not 100% sure about the scene anymore, but i do know I want these two characters. The girl is about 6-8 years old, so yea, the robot is kind of big. I got to go, i'll explain more later, C&C welcomed.

ace4016
03-23-2005, 04:36 AM
Thanks guys. Im hoping to learn lots in this challenge, not to mention i can meet a lot of people and compete with the big boys. I hope i won't disappoint you guys and myself.

I've already met a big challenge for me: I can't make a model without being able to see it with my eyes, and I can't get my ideas down well on paper, I can see it in my head, just when i bring it out, its never the same. I'll probably start modeling tommorrow since I just have to start and try my hardest. Update of a sketch coming up in a few.

Tommy Lee
03-23-2005, 04:55 AM
Good luckto your first ever challenge. Relax and everything will just went fine:thumbsup:

Cheerz

Tommy Lee

ace4016
03-23-2005, 05:02 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1111557747_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1111557747_large.jpg)

Took me a while, but this is what I came up with so far. Its kind of different then what I imagined, Tekkaman has gotten to me. I couldn't get the shin/leg part right so I left it out for now, and couldnt get the shoulders out. Some of what came out was unintentional, but hey. I'll give it another try; tell me what you think about it. I wasn't really going for the anime look(if it might look animeish), just happened that way.

TheFirstAngel
03-23-2005, 05:20 AM
It looks fine for a first attemp for me. but reading you are unsatisfied with it,just keep on it. if it does not fit the result you wanted, make a few scribles. til you find the direction. then explore it. find out what you like on your result, what not. keep the parts you like. start making mini sketches to find a direction. Drawing has no ctrl+z but in exchange is fast. and at the end, if its "mangaish", and you like it, go for it. all that counts is that you can express your idea and vision with the tools you have.
if any other tool helps you faster, try that one. keep it up! go go go!!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Versiden
03-23-2005, 06:52 AM
you're well on your way to fleshing this concept out...

as the1st_angel mentioned, don't move into modelling until you're 100% sure with the concept design. You'll save yourself so much time

ace4016
03-23-2005, 08:51 AM
Thanks guys. I was planning to model the girl first since she is a human and there's not much concept to her body (which I want to start soon). I started on the robot concept first though because I knew I was goign to have a bit of trouble with the concept (and possibly modeling). I will definetly be sketching a lot until I am happy with the concept; the torso has already grown on me after staring at it for a while. New ideas about the robot just popped into my head (usuall do when im up late), but I have to sleep now.

DaddyMack
03-23-2005, 11:43 AM
Greets ace, will be watching, good luck with the concept;)

jddog
03-23-2005, 11:46 AM
ace nice to see your entry... i wish you all the best and kep it hard !!!

jdd

JamesMK
03-23-2005, 11:49 AM
Well, James... o_O .. it's like I'm talking to myself... that's just weird.

You have take-off! Now keep going.

DimitrisLiatsos
03-23-2005, 12:22 PM
Houston....we have lift off .....:bounce:

Alberto_Ro
03-23-2005, 01:44 PM
Itīs very fine that now you already have the story, the plans, the global sketch, and the sketch of the two characters. Now all you have to do is to create better sketches of the two characters ( I see that it is what you are doing now ) and start modeling. Your start has very fast and strong, keep it on! :thumbsup:
Bye.

abz
03-23-2005, 06:11 PM
Can u explain ur idea plz.....
Best of luck!!
Cheers!!

rattlesnake
03-23-2005, 09:38 PM
hey man..good start...ill be watching your moves closely...lets rock my friend!!!:buttrock:

ace4016
03-24-2005, 12:31 AM
Well, James... o_O .. it's like I'm talking to myself... that's just weird.

You have take-off! Now keep going.

Ha, I live with two guys named James.

Thanks guys, I'll try my hardest.

abz - The robot is suppose to be the girl's servant, although that wasn't really its initial purpose for being created. I might change the scene to show the relationship between them a bit better, but he is suppose to be her servant/caretaker, protector, and best friend since she has no more family and the government is after them both. I guess they are even brother and sister since they have the same father/creator. The scene I had was the robot escaping the base where he was created and taking the girl with him to saftey. I might change the scene though since that might not show the relationship between them clearly. If you've got any ideas, Im all ears. Maybe I can do a less action-packed scene (might be better for my pc too). I still have ideas swimming around, just have to let them settle before I start making a huge scene, must use my time wisely.

Identity3D
03-24-2005, 12:40 AM
ace Best of luck with the challenge just remember we are all here to help, Keep up the good work:twisted:

ace4016
03-24-2005, 05:36 AM
Thanks Identity.

I came up with two ideas, both take place after "the chase"

2) the robot(got to find a name for him) is walking up a hill with the girl fast asleep on his back(piggy-back ride) with a smile on her face and him looking back at her.

3) through all the fighting, the little girl gets hurt and the robot cradles her in his arms with his head down as if he were dissapointed that he failed his master and worries for her.

Feel free to commment on the ideas put out so far.

Guess I can't get it out of my head that the servant will be a hero to his master; he is looked up to by her. Over the nights since my beginning piece of the story, I thought up of a lot of the entire story line and I want to make sure that the image i make captures one of the many scenes of thier relationship in the story; I dont want the image to be an image made up just for this challenge. Looks like im not modeling until friday, but maybe tomorrow I'll have a more completed sketch of the robot, im a bit slow at sketching/drawing:p .

alex.h.
03-24-2005, 05:43 AM
great storys, love nr 3 .
keep going and good sculpting. :thumbsup:

Lemog
03-24-2005, 06:45 AM
The #3 is very poetic... sensitive... I like... :thumbsup:

Virtuoso
03-24-2005, 07:07 AM
Yes I agree with Lolo (lemog)....(Great minds think alike you know ;) )..it is very poetic .....Nice going James.....:thumbsup:

jddog
03-24-2005, 07:42 AM
Yes I agree with Lolo (lemog)....

whahahah... :scream: ... Lolo, salut ma puce !

- - -

yep agree with other comments... the concept 3 is really interesting and sounds good... :thumbsup:

jdd

Lemog
03-24-2005, 07:53 AM
whahahah... :scream: ... Lolo, salut ma puce !

[mode BigEyes on]
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :twisted:
[mode BigEyes off]

mouahahahahahahahahahah :scream:

ace4016
03-24-2005, 08:27 AM
I felt number three was the strongest too, I just hope I realize it to its full glory. I havent fully seee the scene in my head, but I imagine the time of day as sunset, the dark sunset, still in the desert type landscape, but thats all I have for the scene for now. Thank you all for your input; now back to sketching (I'm falling in love with drawing again). I can't wait to get started modeling.

ace4016
03-24-2005, 11:36 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1111667773_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1111667773_large.jpg)

Just a little more work on the robot concept. The shin is on image, the shoulders and part of the chest is another image, and the thigh and most of the torso is another. I merged them in PS and mirrored (didnt come out perfect). I just wanted to see how all he parts were coming together. Still mus do the boots, arms and head. Just a note, some parts that look flat may have a lot more dimension to them. I'm still trying to experiment with some designs. I think some parts on the robot might not match others. What do you guys think? I'm open for opinions.

I think I'll have time later today to start on the girl, but my schedule isn't definite until friday though.

Alberto_Ro
03-24-2005, 11:42 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1111667773_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1111667773_large.jpg)

Just a little more work on the robot concept. The shin is on image, the shoulders and part of the chest is another image, and the thigh and most of the torso is another. I merged them in PS and mirrored (didnt come out perfect). I just wanted to see how all he parts were coming together. Still mus do the boots, arms and head. Just a note, some parts that look flat may have a lot more dimension to them. I'm still trying to experiment with some designs. I think some parts on the robot might not match others. What do you guys think? I'm open for opinions.

I think I'll have time later today to start on the girl, but my schedule isn't definite until friday though.
Now he looks like a real robot. Keep on working on him, I am waiting to see another update. :bounce:
Bye.

Lemog
03-24-2005, 11:49 AM
Well design for me... you can continue :buttrock:

Poison_Crow
03-24-2005, 11:50 AM
I liked the armor design, reminds me of those old animes(Saint Seiya, Shurato.. and others :P), very good. I cannot wait to see how you will model it, what materials will use, and so on.
Good Luck!

ace4016
03-24-2005, 12:00 PM
My proportions are off in the update. The sketches are mainly just to get a basic idea. I'm trying to get a heroish/techish design, but there is always room for change. Im going to rest now

Albert & Lemog- Thanks!

poison_cow - I was always a fan of tekkaman blade, and other tech-style (different from mech-style to me) animes I never knew the name of when I was younger. Havent seen them since i was 7, but still fresh in my mind. I can't wait to see how I model it and such either:D .

Kid-Mesh
03-24-2005, 12:40 PM
So far so good ACE :), I can appreciate that your actually trying to get a true visualization down on paper even though you like stick figures :scream:.

Looking good man, keep doing your thing.

SONIC-X
03-24-2005, 12:53 PM
Glad to see I'm not only one drawing stick figures.

Nice going so far .

ArtisticVisions
03-24-2005, 02:53 PM
Cool robot design (very "tech-ish"); can't wait to see it in 3D. :thumbsup:

Climax
03-24-2005, 09:25 PM
• Cool armor James! ( until this challenge i didn't know your name :D)
He will be armed even in his parts lol :D, keep going pal!

ace4016
03-25-2005, 06:39 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1111736354_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1111736354_large.jpg)

I started on the girl today. I didn't have any refrences other then a little sketch I did just so I could have soemthing to follow. I think the hips might be too big, or the chest too small? I'll be doing more tweaking, and hopefully adding the arms, hands, and feet later today.

ace4016
03-25-2005, 06:57 AM
Thanks guys, I appreaciate the compliments. I guess this challenge is forcing me to do things I wouldn't have done, like draw non-stick figures :p.

Climax - Thanks, I think I might make the shoulders even sharper to match the rest of the sharp edges and points. He was designed to be a warmachine before he became a gaurdian after all.

Does the girl model look like shes around the age of 8? The legs where thicker before and she was curvier, but I dont think 8 year olds have thick thighs and curves. ANy suggestions to get mroe of the 8 year old look?

Jelmer
03-25-2005, 07:15 AM
the legs look al little far apart, i think they should be closer to each other, the rest is quite good i think:)

Kid-Mesh
03-25-2005, 11:36 AM
Hey nice start, Females can be tough sometimes :D but keep at it.

You said you really didnt have a reference except what you drew, and your style is mainly stick figurish. It's at this stage that unless you really understand human anatomy inside an out a solid image reference will be your best friend.
But now worries, here is a link to an excellent tutorial on modeling the female figure. You can choose to follow the tutorial if you like or just grab the modeling reference for the female figure in that tutorial and continue on with your style :)

But keep working at it, alot of use these contest to get better in area's where we need strength, I know I am. Have fun man and here is that link if you want it --- Modeling Tut (http://67.15.36.49/ffa/tutorials/max/joanofarc/joanmenu.asp)

eYadNesS
03-25-2005, 11:41 AM
Nice sketch and design, remind me of evanglion :buttrock:

Great job you did :thumbsup: I'm looking to see more...

MDN67
03-25-2005, 04:14 PM
good design for the robot, i wait the modeling of it, good begin:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

ace4016
03-25-2005, 07:33 PM
Thanks all

Jelmer - I forgot about that. It happened when I scaled the legs to be thinner, O forgot to move them in closer to the center.

Kid Mesh - Thanks, I actually did that tutorial in novemeber and I used somewhat of the same technique (except I started out at the ankles with an 8-sided cylinder). I can't use the refrence image from the joan of arc tute sicne she is a bit too woman for an 8 year old girl. I wish I could have found good refrences for a young girl, but you know how the internet is when the words young and girl are put into a search engine (i even tried female instead of girl). I'll be looking for more refrences, the model so far was just to get set up for the real refrence images.

eYadDesS & MDN67 - Thanks for the compliments on the robot design. I hope I have a somewhat painless time modeling it.

I'll hopefuly have an update later tonight.

Virtuoso
03-25-2005, 07:38 PM
Nice sketch and design, remind me of evanglion :buttrock:




I agree......Nice to see you getting this deeper into the 3D World James.......:arteest:

Kid-Mesh
03-25-2005, 08:30 PM
Well if you need some model sheet references of young girls then try this site.

Anime Model Sheets (http://www.anime-model-sheets.com/)

Click through the mixed search though and I guarantee you will find some because I've downloaded a few there myself a while back.

Good luck man!

essencedesign
03-25-2005, 08:31 PM
hello my friend, happy to see you have entered this contest, I look forward to good things from you, haven't read over your thread yet, so just wanted to say hello, and wish you the best... :thumbsup:

TheFirstAngel
03-25-2005, 11:23 PM
your work comes along very good.

Robot design: very cool. Like it.

Girl design:the wide hips been already metioned, you might also have a little look at Michel Roger's Jeanne d'arc. One of the best boxmodeling tuts around, still.

http://mr2k.3dvf.net/frameset.htm

if you have troubles to get smart of "francais", just use: http://world.altavista.com
and paste the link, choose translate "french to..." and thats it.

best luck and its great to see your efforts pay out. keep on it! :)

ace4016
03-26-2005, 06:03 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1111820596_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1111820596_large.jpg)

Ok, i was just tweaking a bit, and added feet and arms. I am definetly not done with the feet, and the arms need a bit of tweaking. I found a few pictures of young girls and some characters from digimon that fit the age range, so I'll be using a few refrences. Critiques?

ace4016
03-26-2005, 06:18 AM
Angel - Thanks Angel, thats actually the same tutorial that Kid Mesh recommended, and the one I did a few months ago.

Kid Mesh - Even though i'm not going for an anime look (with the girl), those refrences i got may help, just have to figure out whether or not I sould compare the two straoght in the viewport or just try to eye what's wrong.

essencedesign & virtuoso - thanks:thumbsup:

More updates as soon as I get the torso right. Hands and head will come soon.

flyingP
03-26-2005, 06:44 AM
couple of things, it looks a bit off balance in the profile view as if it is tipping forward.
it also looks a bit stretched in "x" and squashed in "z" in places at the moment :)

ace4016
03-26-2005, 09:20 AM
I can see the proplems now, thanks for pointing that out. So far I see the thighs and middle torso are sqashed in the z-axis(or y-axis in max). The stretching of the torso is getting on my nerves, I'm almost considering making her older so i can use the curves I use to have on her, but thats the easy way out so i wont take it. Didn't notice the leaning, I'll fix that hopefully in the next update.

Right now im doing the hands, and that is a pain, especially the thumbs. Hm, just noticed the ankles look fat in the profile view:banghead: .

Kid-Mesh
03-26-2005, 09:43 AM
Hey no worries man, take a break from it and model something else in your scene if you have to. It's still modeling ya know, and you will get into a rythm while your doing it. This way you can get feel like your getting caught up and back on track with your progress. Come back after you feel a little refreshed and revisit her again....you will have fresher eye's trust me :eek:

jddog
03-26-2005, 10:08 AM
Hey no worries man, take a break from it and model something else

this is really a good point... take a break from something is always good... \

I'm agree with flying comment... You say hands... mmm try to do a search in the past challenge forum of machineflesh, I'm quiet sure you can found something that can help you. I think Cartesius, harnbele (if is correctly written) and other they post interesting step by step session on body parts like hands.

jdd

arturro
03-26-2005, 11:19 AM
Hi there mate! Very good progress, it's moving forward quite nice:thumbsup: Your armor looks impressing. With your current modeling, I advice to make calfs a bit shorter, but more defined, I mean a bit wider in the inside part. And some more visible notch waistline should help. Waiting how it will develop to say something more.
Keep it up my friend!

ace4016
03-26-2005, 11:41 AM
Yea, im taking a break from the girls body, but I'll continue to wokr on the hands; just found a nice maya tutorial:) . I also took a break earlier from modeling completely and I was thinking about what the girl was going to wear (just so I know what I have to concentrate on the most). So far I think she will be in a dress with stalkings and those school/dress shoes little girls wear. What do 6-10 year olds wear anyways(yea i know i increased the age range, might be going for 10)?

arturro - Your absolutley right about the calves, and I think I fixed the hips already, I just havent posted yet. I guess I was trying to keep away from muscle definition, and as kidmesh said, been looking at the model for too long.

Later today, after I fix the hands, torso, and calfs, I'll be design the head. Last time i did a head, it turned out pretty well, but that was some time ago; we will see.

jddog
03-26-2005, 12:15 PM
Last time i did a head, it turned out pretty well, but that was some time ago; we will see.

If you did it 1 time you can do only better this time ! :buttrock: and keep it hard !
jdd

blackdragoncg
03-26-2005, 12:36 PM
Good luck Ace :thumbsup:

ace4016
03-27-2005, 04:17 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1111900622_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1111900622_large.jpg)

Ok, I've taken the suggestions and tried o fix everything said. Also add the hands. I'll show close ups of the hands; tutes aren't helping too much. Although I dont think her hands will be shown up close, so maybe I dont have to spend too much time on the hands.

ace4016
03-27-2005, 04:34 AM
The Hands I jsut noticed look small. I'm not sure her hands will be shown upclaose, so im debating making the hands look up to par with the rest of the model (hehe, i hate getting stuck). Here are those hands up close btw:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/dante4016/hands_01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/dante4016/hands_02.jpg

It looks ok from far, but not upclose (the material is faceted just to see errors better). Feel free to draw on any of my images if you feel it better to explain something.

Blackdragoncg - thanks, good luck on your entry too.

Kragh
03-27-2005, 08:54 AM
Hi there Ace

Remember you in my gso thread as a real helper, thanks for that. And thanks for dropping by my M&S thread.

Nice concept. Nice idea. Girl model has some problems, in some angles she looks great, in others she donīt...but just keep working, it will get there. As for the hand, it seems the thumb is a little high in the hand...hmmm...how to explain...you should maybe lower the point where it "grows" out of the hand. It should be sticking out in the bottom of the hand, not in the middle...Makes any sence?...keep at it, Iīll be back for more updates.

ace4016
03-27-2005, 10:02 AM
Hey kragh, I like to help so I try to be helpful. Hope I'm even more helpful this time around.

With the girl, can you tell me some of the exact things that seem off; if its hard to say it, feel free to draw on the pictures. You just saved me some time with the hands, I was just about to make a new thumb in the same place as the old thumb. luckily you replied. I know what you mean by the thumb should be lower, thanks.

TheFirstAngel
03-27-2005, 12:54 PM
Hi Mr Snoopy.

looks much better, you're getting more to it everytime i visit your tread.

the hand looks good. all over. now the thumbproblem
thumb "root" is too far in the front, maybe move it 1 thumbwith backwards towards her body.
to best positionate the thumb, detach it to an own element, and move it to the right place. watch your own, relaxed hand. thumb is almost parallel to the hand, and 90 degrees rotated to the other fingers maindirection. then rebuild up the connetions. (a fast way to do it are edgeextrusions, targetweld)
hands ARE hard task. always :)

depending if you want to go on a realistic anatomy or a toon anatomy, you might ignore the following sugestion: me as a toon modeler would give her a bit of a belly (profile view) and reduce the mass on her chest a bit, when she's a little girl.
to ballynce her top heavy weight a bit. also, i'd gave her leggs a bit more volume. like 10-15% loopscale...

make sure you scale down the neckloop before you extrude it...

all sugestions of course are just my own personal point of view and taste. keep it up, your work looks better and better, every time. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
cheers

jddog
03-27-2005, 05:18 PM
Your progress and perseverance are really strong and you come out with really good things, ANgel make better and more interesting comment als me. If I had a body do model I'm in your same situation... but really :thumbsup: for all what you do here !
And thanks for your suggestion on my thread james :thumbsup:
:wip:
jdd

Versiden
03-27-2005, 06:44 PM
hiya

a couple of suggestions for ya..

for the torso, push the belly slightly more out

the upper thighs on the left view look a little too thin, from the front view it looks ok..

the feet look a bit too long for the body height, scale it down on the y-axis

hope that helps a bit dude.. goodluck..

Kid-Mesh
03-27-2005, 07:03 PM
Looking good from what I can see Snoop, If I might add a suggestion...just fatten the hand just a tad that should help. Keep it up man!

Climax
03-27-2005, 10:34 PM
• Hi Ace, palm of the hand is too wide, that's because the separation of the fingers, also must check the wides of each of them, looks too irregular, but the problem resides in the little one, if u look carefully there is an arc where the fingers meet the palm
• Overall is a bit flat, but I know it is in progress I just wanted to point what I see, :)
keep going pal you are now on the way! :thumbsup:

ace4016
03-28-2005, 01:41 AM
Thanks guys for all your help.

Versiden & Angel - I'll be sure to try both your recommendations out. I dont think I want to try realistic human, but not fully cartoon; I'll see how it all works out.

Kid Mesh, Angel, & Climax - thanks for the suggestions on the hands, hopefully my out come will look decent.

I've been kind of slow in max, not to mention I've been sleeping a lot, so, no real progress today. Back to the weekdays....hope I find time to model. I'll update a soon as I have something new to show. Hoep you all had a good weekend.

Kid-Mesh
03-28-2005, 02:00 AM
Well sometimes when my model isnt coming out "Exactly" how I want I start modeling something else that I know I can do and plus it helps with a change of pace. See I'm like a old 57 chevy, it takes me a minute to get warmed up but once I do Im really going. So you might get into a groove on a different part of your entry and then ride that momentum back to this model :)

No matter what man just keep going, keep learning and growing because were just out here having fun.

ArtisticVisions
03-28-2005, 02:22 AM
My thoughts for the girl:

1. The torso and hips are still too wide (though I'm sure you already know that by now :p )

2. Considering the age of the her, I don't think she'd be so "top-heavy" if you know what I mean :D . Maybe push the chest in a little while pushing out the stomach might help?

3. The hands are looking pretty good, but I'd increase the spacing between the fingers by a tad (between fingers, the shape more resembles a "U" rather than a "V").

Hope that helps and can't wait to see more from you. :)

Hooch
03-28-2005, 05:38 AM
That's it, keep it coming Snoopy boy! :thumbsup:

DimitrisLiatsos
03-28-2005, 08:21 AM
Hi ace4016 ...glad to see u are in progress of this....(i also like concept 3 by the way)
Now in hands wip....yes i agree with Hooch ...Thumb should move down some...(look at your hand )....also point finger and the third finger have the same lenght , Second finger a bit higher and small finger is lower than point finger as much as higher is the second finger from the pointer about 1 and a half time,....:) That's not a must rule (rather it's a fast rule..heheh)

Hope i helped ...keep crunching :bounce:

Virtuoso
03-28-2005, 08:46 AM
Great suggestions here....nothing to add for you james.....I hope it's coming along....I'll be looking to see how it turns out,Good luck......:thumbsup:

blackdragoncg
03-28-2005, 10:03 AM
Hey ace, She's comming along nicely... These guys have offered loads of good advice here! :thumbsup:

Maybe try putting a reference image into the background and model to that? I know I started by doing that method and soon you won't need it at all!

Rock on dude!!

hands0nfire
03-28-2005, 08:43 PM
stopping by to wish you good luck and your figure is coming along fine so far..

handsonfire
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=223443 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=223443) <- this is my thread

alex.h.
03-29-2005, 02:22 AM
nice going ace, maby move out the shoulders alitle on her. see you and :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

ace4016
03-29-2005, 04:25 AM
Thansk guys; lots of suggestions, I'll be sure to make time to work on them soon (you know how weekdays are).


Kid Mesh - I'm kind of the same way, although I just keep getting stopped. I'm slowly but surely learning more. I'll be thinking about what else needs to be in the scene so that whenever I get stuff on one model I dont just go to a different body part. And thanks for the hand refrence, got confusing around the thumb and I have about two triangles, but I'm close.

ArtisticVisions - I've been playign around with the mesh, and took your advice. Still more work to do, might show an update in 2 days to show how the body is going. Made completely new hands, which would make it the fith hand I made for this girl.

Hooch - I'll be sure to

Dimi - You'll see the new hands in just a sec. I'm not sure if the height of the fingers is completely right on this one, and I got the email a bit after I stopped on the hands for the night, but I think I got it this time.

Virtuoso - thanks:thumbsup:

Blackdragoncg - I did at first, just I was using the drawing I drew (she was too much woman). Then I stopped using what I drew and tried making her look younger. It's not easy finding orthos of a 10-year old girl, still havent found one. I think I'll try to draw one up a bit better this time and use that. And yes, her final age is going to be 10 (for the sake of the curves that I still have to reduce, and the lack of refrences since she is suppose to be semi-realistic).

handsonfire - thanks

alex - Your right, the torso some how shrunk as it went towards the neck and the shoulders are too close together. I'll be sure to fix it.

Thanks once again guys for your support and help. Updates of the hands in just a few.

ace4016
03-29-2005, 04:29 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112074161_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112074161_large.jpg)

Ok, Big thanks to all you have helped wiht suggestions and refrences to the hands. I have more tweaking to do, but here is what I have so far. I always did hate modeling hands.....

rattlesnake
03-29-2005, 04:50 AM
hi mate...i saw youre modeling human body now...i will go to the hands: hands are always hard to make...but i think you have a nice model there that need jusy some minor tweaks...i think that maybe thyre a bit flat in z axis...u can give tham some more volume i think...the shape is there..but try to imagine the bones inside the hand and then start giving shape acording to the bones structure...after that u can add volume to where the muscles are supossed to be...

ok man...ill be following u!

3dRaven
03-29-2005, 07:38 AM
If the robots running you can use some smart motion bluring to hide stuff were you're having trouble :)

ace4016
03-29-2005, 07:53 AM
Haha, I was hoping I won't have to show the hands, but Im still triyng to get the hands right just for learning purposes. I changed the scene from the running idea. I decided to go with the scene after my first idea which was my third idea, where the robot is carrying the little girl and hanging his head down in shame because he failed to protect his master (she is still alive though). You just reminded me I did "sketches" of the new comp. I'll upload them in just a second. The scene and postions are most likely to change though since it is so early in the challenge.

ace4016
03-29-2005, 08:03 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112087001_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112087001_large.jpg)

These arent exaclt refiend postions, just generalized. In position 1, the robot is kneeling (in case you can't tell), after his master had been hurt during the escape, and he hangs his head because he has failed to keep her from harms hands. Position two is about the same, except he is walking away instead of kneeling. I am planning that the robot will not have expressive eyes, lips, etc., so I will have to express his sadness through body language. I'll be thinking of more/better compositions, maybe even a different scene. Hehe, her hands don't show much in these comps either, so maybe I can get away with imperfect hands; but I will still attempt to get the hands looking decent.

SONIC-X
03-29-2005, 08:26 AM
Great start so far.

Kragh
03-29-2005, 09:29 AM
Hi again

Thumb is a lot better now. A little thin, maybe a little too long...hands are different out there, so maybe this kind of thumb do exist. I just dont look like mine...:)..just another thing. Someone mentioned something about the thumb should be 90 deg. turned to the other fingers. I dont agree. Not in relaxed position. Then itīs only about 45 deg. Itīs first in the 90 deg. position, when you starts to close the hand. Minor tweaks there.

As for the fingers...how to explain this...hmmm...well, try to work a little on their attachment to the main hand. Itīs wrong. The attachment should be angled. If you look at your hand, the point where the finger meets the hand on top of the hand, is lower than the point it meets the back of the hand...get it?...hard to explain. Iīll try it this way:

space between fingers seen in profile(fingers removed, only the curve remains):

EDIT: Sorry couldnīt get it to work, kept showing wrong....hope you got it from the description:)...or pm you mail address, and Iīll send it to you...gotta go, in a hurry...:)

Makes any sense at all?...:)...guess not...maybe others know how to explain it better...

good luck

ace4016
03-29-2005, 10:05 AM
I got the angled joint connection thing, I just looked at my hands to see what you were talking about, I'll have to pay more attention to my hands. . Your right about the thumb being too long and too thin. I thought the thumb saw too long, adn my roomamte said it looked a bit thin. I tried scaling it because the thumb was really fat before, gues i sclaed too much. Thanks once again kragh, big help (i love cgtalk). You explain thing a lot better then you think;) . I'll combine what you said and what jorge said ealier to try and finish the hands, although tomorrow I think I'll only have time to mess around with the body, i've been ignoring it for too long:p . All my contact info is in my cgtalk profile if you ever need to contact me (my email address is my msn name).

SONIC-X - thanks

I'm hoping to get the best out of my weekends from now on (which sort of starts thrusday night). Thanks guys, keep the comments coming.

Actually, what jorge said gave me an idea if it takes too long to fix the hand. If all else fails, I'll make the bones of the hands, and patch model around the bones, then add muscle. Maybe I'll try that after the challenge actually. Eh, silly idea.

Versiden
03-29-2005, 10:43 AM
the hands are coming along, I'd make the fingers slightly longer, but that's just me..

it's going to be really tough conveying sadness in the robot with just body language alone... that's what a challenge is all about..

gl ;p

Kid-Mesh
03-29-2005, 10:49 AM
Well one thing I can say for sure, once you know exactly where your headed things move at a lot faster pace and things just seem to fall into place for ya. Your new scenes offers a world of possibilities for you, hope you exploit them all

ace4016
03-29-2005, 11:39 AM
Versiden - Thanks for the finger adivce; I did notice that whenever they were on the girl, the hands seems to short and small. If i was going to use body language with a human it would be so much easier because of the body parts (mainly shoulders and back), but the robot design doesnt vividly show some of these so it will be a challenge indeed. I'm going to have to create the right atmosphere to help out the robots depression.

Kid Mesh - Indeed they do, and thats why I will have to take a bit of time out to think about the scene fully so that I know exactly what to model, when to model, how long it will take me to finsih.....I just have to plan out a bit more. All I have now it the bot and girl, and I'm not 100% sure what she will wear and still wokring on the robot. I have a short day of classes, so I'll be thinking these things up throughout today.


I actually probably have an update for the body, but I'll take a couple more looks, and do a couple more tweaks before I show you guys again; and I'll be showing wires this time too. But I better get started on a head for the girl and clothes soon, I don't have forever to do all this (plsu I'm sure many of you can't wait to see the bot in 3d, i know i can't). Anyways, I'm off the computer for now, maybe take a nap.

Alberto_Ro
03-29-2005, 11:59 AM
Well, I think the thickest finger ( that on the right part in the first pic and on the left part in the second ) is a bit deformed. I mean it has a too curved part, itīs not so curved. Ithink it should go straight from where it is conected to the hand untill the nails. In the bottom part, they are too curved to outside, and in the middle part they are too curved to inside... It should be a bit more regular.
I think that the interior part of the hand ( that you showed in the first pic ) itīs good modeled, it looks like a real hand, I donīt think you will have to change it much.
But in the outside part ( showed in the second pic ) I think has a problem where youīve made the "relief". I think that the partīs that youīve made more deep shouldnīt be so deep and the should be a major bump where the fingers and the hands connect.
Good luck!

Aethyrprime
03-29-2005, 02:13 PM
Hey hey my man, you decided to join in the fun I see... W00t, good luck and definantly take advantage of all the wonder CnC here throught the process.. Really that is the best reward.

ace4016
03-30-2005, 01:04 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112148245_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112148245_large.jpg)

Ok, hopefulyy I didnt forget anything and hopefully it looks better.

Changes made:
-thighs thicker from profile view
-stomach goes out more from profile view
-lessened chest from profile view
-made back less curvy from profile view
-made shoulders wider from front view
-feet slightly smaller
-made hips appear less wide from front view
-might also have done something else but cant remmeber....

ace4016
03-30-2005, 01:05 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112148349_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112148349_large.jpg)

wires without meshsmooth

ace4016
03-30-2005, 01:20 AM
Well, before I do more tweaking, I want to make the clothes so that I dont over work an area that isn't going to be shown. I'll work on the head soon too, maybe even tonight. Ugh, hopefully rigging the girl will be as easy as rigging woodstock was (snoopy brought me to hell and back many times with his rig, and he still can't sit). The girl, btw, is at the age of 10 now. I have to think up of her clothes; any of you know what 10 year old girls like to wear? Well, I'm going to be drawing out the head, we'll see how that goes. And thanks once again for all comments and suggestions, and for the encouragement.

DaddyMack
03-30-2005, 02:43 AM
Hi again ace4016 you legend, this is coming together really well and I'm enjoying watching your concept evolve. I feel its time tho that you maybe start really messing up some of the uniformity of your polys in your lores mesh, like you did for the quads (upper arm) because it gives a great subtlety of form- instead of roundness... Maybe even do a 1 level smooth and play with that a bit before smoothing it right out...Dunno dude, just my opinion, but I think it will really benefit the overall design of the character.
Whenever I struggle with topology I just go and check out other peoples meshes for pointers. Good luck man
and
Go hard ace!!!

Ravendsg
03-30-2005, 02:52 AM
how abt a cute little dress like Alice in wonderland :D that'll be cute. Still early in the modelling, so keep working and show us more!! :thumbsup:

ArtisticVisions
03-30-2005, 03:10 AM
Body is looking better (the hands are looking pretty nice as well). :)

I still think the torso and hips need to be thinned out more - still too thick.

TheFirstAngel
03-30-2005, 03:19 AM
great progress James, the proportions are very very much better now. anothe point of view on the "thick body and hips" she's 8. maybe you add a bit mass on the slim leggs, they look good but i think sort of heading towards modelproportions already. that might ballance out the massdistribution a bit. just my oppinion, maybe worth a try.
keep it up mate!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Ravendsg
03-30-2005, 03:29 AM
I think you might want to give more suggestions to the waist, make it thinner, and the hips too, which i think is abit too wide too. The shin area, or lower leg seems to be too curved inwards. For the side view, i would think that the hamstring muscles are too "droopy", i think it should slope gently downwards and get slimmer towards the knee to make it more graceful, if thats what you want. :) But i guess that would not be a prb once you create the clothes for the girl, but then again, if you do make it, how abt abit of translucency for the clothes? Would be nice to see the silhouette of the girl, but of course not the full details of her undies :P

Juz some suggestions :)

Aethyrprime
03-30-2005, 02:22 PM
Looking good so far. Keep it up man. Ravendsg had some good suggestions I suggest you listen to them ;) Otherwise doing very well. :wip:

ace4016
03-30-2005, 10:18 PM
Thanks for the comments.

DaddyMack - Thanks. Also, can you explain, a bit, about when you said "its time tho that you maybe start really messing up some of the uniformity of your polys in your lores mesh?" Did you mean give shape to hte upper arms like I did for the quadraceps (a little unsure)?

Ravendsg - Actually, so far I have an idea for a dress (like alice in wonderland), and jeans and a shirt (being in a desert, I dont think the dress might be too comfortable). Actually, now that I think about the setting, I'm even considering shorts. About the hips, I was trying to make sure the waist was visible to viewers, guess its still a bit much. I guess I also over did the bending of the shin, but it wouldnt show until I did exaggerate the bend. I'll try out your suggestion on the hamstrings. And about the clothes, we'll see.

ArtisticVisions - Thanks. I'm working on the curves:wip: .

Angel - She's ten now:p . Even if she is ten, she has more curves then girls that are goign through puberty, I've got to skinny her up a bit. Lol, I probably would have been done with the model if I went with my woman warrior and her beast instead of this one. Working on lessening body mass.

Richard - I can't tell what that last letter is suppose to be in you user name, lol. Anyways, thanks, and I listen to all suggestions, and try them all. Just taking a bit of time since I'm not using perfect ortho planes, only my inexperienced drawings:) .

Being on a college campus, it's not like I see pre-puberty bodies a lot, so this is taking some time. I'll start on the had later tonight, been pending too much time on the hands and body.

alex.h.
03-30-2005, 10:28 PM
body is nearly there, waiting for head now, when thats on, in my opinion its easier to finish a body(i always start whith head)then body, but that is a matter of flow.
see you and god work mate :thumbsup:

ace4016
03-31-2005, 10:13 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112267593_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112267593_large.jpg)

The head. The ears look too flat and the chin might look a bit weird, and the zygomatic is a bit defined for a 10 year old. My second human head ever. My eyes need a little rest.

ace4016
03-31-2005, 10:23 AM
Thanks Alex, I only started with the body because thats the only way I know how to make a human model (snoopy and woodstock started out at the head actually).

Well, that was the head. I'm sure she will look very different with hair and a real skin shader/color. I hope the head isn't looking too much like Ms. Joan or Arc; I had to use her head to get the shape of a human head properly. After tweaking all the body parts, I'm going to have to make the hair, clothes, textures, and I'll be done with her. Hopefully by the end of the weekend I'll be finish (hehe, and I had a plan to finsih the girl in 2 days over the weekend that just past, wishful thinking huh). I dont mind he eyes being cartoony either, takes the pressure of coming up with realistic shaders (which I have no experience in).

flyingP
03-31-2005, 10:37 AM
the ears are indeed a bit flat, they're also set a bit high......but at least they are not bent like bananas :thumbsup: , amazing how many people do that though :argh:

Kid-Mesh
03-31-2005, 12:01 PM
Hey! Check you out man!

Looking good, I know its your base model so I'll hold my c & c. Keep it coming !!!

mmoir
03-31-2005, 04:52 PM
Hi James,
Nice start on the head model :thumbsup: . A couple of points I see, from the front view I think the head looks a little too wide and the eyes are too big. Also the nose is a little too pointy from the side view. This is of course if this is going to be totally human character. Keep at it , it is looking good.

A12
03-31-2005, 09:54 PM
Keep working through your ideas. Looks good so far. The scene can be an epic moment when the robot sacrifices itself in order to protect the life of its master. Can be very dramatic and emotional to. Good stuff.

Aethyrprime
03-31-2005, 11:29 PM
Coming along great man! :) The style is developing quite well for you. I like it keep it up. I am glad to see you raising your abilities and pushing your limits. I can see your growth with each update. GJ!

ace4016
04-01-2005, 02:30 AM
flyingp - I don't know about the ears being too high, I was looking at my roommates ears compared to the eyes and the appear at the same level, just the ears are taller. I'll look into it some mroe though. Mayeb the jawline that goes there is a bit off and makes the ears seem higher up.

Kid Mesh - Thanks. Actually, you can start commenting on the head now; its never too early.

mmoir - I don't think I want her looking realistic, so I guess she's a bit cartoony. I think I like the big eyes and sharp-tip nose, but the head kind of look alien, maybe its the width thing. I'll be adding "hair" soon just to check.

Brent_3D - Thanks. I was thinking of doing a scene where he is keeping something from falling on her (or a military vehicle from running over her). I'll think more about it. I'm a bit unsure about idea #3, although thats my #1 choice right now.

richard - Thanks. Thats what these challenges are about, right? I'm glad I'm improving (and you noticed before me), and I'm glad you like it. hehe, think you might see a decrease in decent modeling when I move on to the robot, he might be my ultimate challange (if not, it will be texturing with a mouse:argh: ).


I made the ears look better, but I'll post that when I have a bit mroe to show. I didnt really change much with the head since I can't tell exactly whats wrong (if anything at all), without the hair (the polygon type).

DaddyMack
04-01-2005, 03:20 AM
Greetings again ace, great work on the head overall man:thumbsup:
This is shaping up in a mighty fine way.
BTW I noticed your specular hilites on the eyeballs in the front shot of your last post (phew). My brain sorta saw them as pupils and I felt that the placement (high on the eyeball) gave her a real sense of nobility or wisdom or something...maybe just me...
Anyways keep up the great progress

Kid-Mesh
04-01-2005, 12:21 PM
Well actually the head model is pretty darn good. My only crit would be to define the ears a little more since at this stage they seem a little thin. Other than that its great.

eddieellis
04-01-2005, 12:23 PM
have to agree man, they look alittle flat - other than that nice start

ace4016
04-02-2005, 12:09 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112404164_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112404164_large.jpg)

There's still probably a bit I can do to the ears, but here they are.

Kid-Mesh
04-02-2005, 12:12 AM
Not a bad start :) .... and Im not even trying to be nit picky lol.

Look at the bottom lobe, now shoot for making the top cartiledge (sp?) of the ear about half that thickness and it should be fine.

ace4016
04-02-2005, 12:13 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112404376_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112404376_large.jpg)

Just did a simpel hairstyle. I think it looks too simple, so im 99.9% sure that I will change this hairstyle. Time to go look at those crazy anime girl hairstyles :P

monsitj
04-02-2005, 12:15 AM
nice model Jame!! some point is the nose is a bit too sharp ,
nice lip! good luck

ace4016
04-02-2005, 12:33 AM
Thanks guys.

Kid Mesh - Thanks. I didn't notice that the upper part of the ear was that thin, it was 4am in the morning, and I was sleepy.

Monsit - Thanks. Now that I look at the picture more and more, I have to agree with you and Mike about the nose.

eddieellis - thanks. ears almost there

DaddyMack - lol, I saw the highlights as pupils too, not sure I saw the nobiliy or wisdom though (maybe you've been smoking too much chillipeppers lately, those things are bad for your brain you know:D ).


I'll start doing the tweaks on the body, hands, and head; then attach them (the head is already attached if you didnt notice the neck from above); and then it will be off to the clothes and hair. Hopefully those won't take long. More comments on the body, hands, and head are still wanted; and be as cruel with the comments as you need to be. Anyways, off to max......

ace4016
04-02-2005, 04:56 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112421369_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112421369_large.jpg)

Connected the hands and tried to fix a few things. Does the head seem too big for the body?

DaddyMack
04-02-2005, 05:00 AM
Hahaaah, I'm a long retired chillian, but, as you know my brain is... well... a bit baddened...
Trying to be all DaddyMack when me really just sumdumguy..

Keep up the great work mate:thumbsup:

DaddyMack
04-02-2005, 05:06 AM
Connected the hands and tried to fix a few things. Does the head seem too big for the body?

I think maybe the neck is short?

ace4016
04-02-2005, 11:00 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112443235_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112443235_large.jpg)

I started on the shoes, pants, and shirt. The shirt is that area of the skin, but pushed to be above the skin; same for pants but they flar at the bottom. I can't model shoes, so those are my best try. I obviosly am not an industrial designer or fashion designer. Also lengthened the neck a bit.

ace4016
04-02-2005, 11:18 AM
Anyone know any good shoe tutorials that aren't nurb based? I thought she should wear something a bit more casual then a dress since she will be venturing in the desert for a while. The clothes still might change. I'll try making a skin shader soon, she doesn't look fully human with the blue skin. The only thing I have textured so far was the eyes, which I will probably redo since I made it in a rush just to get eey color in. Since this is a bit cartoony, I don't know what to do with shaders and textures right now. The girl alone is up to 42,000 polys with meshsmooth set at a iteration of 2, if anyone wanted to know. Now I think I'll take another shot at the hair.......

3dRaven
04-02-2005, 11:42 AM
Since your using meshsmooth than you're probably sticking with max. I always first create a box....turn it into an editable poly then go from there....your best friends are chamfer, extrude and vertex weld. Block out the shoe around the foot then chamfer it to get the basic shape...try to keep it simple so make it out of a single poly wall then use a thickness modier on it (shell in the new max, solidify in the older versions)...in the end add meshsmooth on top and it's best if you shortcut show end result to a key so you can switch quickly between low and high poly....and remember when dealing with sub-d meshes to get round holes (like for the laces) you just have to cut a square in the mesh meshsmooth handles the rest....

Sorry for the rant..hope you can use some of the info

javaejderi
04-03-2005, 12:05 AM
Good luck!!! Very good for a first timer!!!

ace4016
04-03-2005, 08:11 AM
Raven - Thanks. Tahts actaulyl what I did for the current shoes, just I didnt think they looked good at all. I forgot about the "show end result" button, which might have made the shoe making easier. I think I'll keep the current shoes, but unitl I texture them, if I decide to do textures, they may still change.

J++ Dragon - Thanks.

Ok, I UV mapped the girl, her shirt, her pants, and her shoes, and also mad new hair, which I am still working on but will probably show what I have so far. I am not sure I will texture the shirt, pants, and shoes, but I mapped them just in case I decide to, or am forced to. I wish a had a drawing tablet right about now.

I wish i didn't have to texture at all. On question, when I export UVs from max, and I have meshsmooth on, do I grab the UVs with meshsmooth on, or off? I can probably rig the girl in about an hour or two, so after the materials and textures are done for the girl, I'll be moving to the robot soon (yay :bounce: ). Now, I'm off to mess with materails and textures :cry: :banghead: .

BTW, any tips for the materials and textures keeping in mind that I only have a mouse and PS to work with would be really helpful right now.

ace4016
04-03-2005, 01:36 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112535357_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112535357_large.jpg)

I can't seem to get the skin color right, and everytime I paint something in PS, it just doesn't come out right. I'll be messing around wiht the skin shader later. The clothes and shoes only have a bump map. I knew texturing was going to slow me down drastically.

ace4016
04-03-2005, 02:01 PM
Since I have Everything unwrapped, I think I'll go to rigging. Atleast with rigging it's something I have done before, and shouldnt take long, so I should be back to banging by head against the desk soon :banghead: .

jddog
04-03-2005, 02:04 PM
:applause: stunning progress on your figure, cograts ! I really like how she come out !

Don't be scared about materials, take patience and made simple things at beginning. Later on when you have all elements ready you can continue to improve all materials.

:wip:

jdd

Kid-Mesh
04-04-2005, 01:29 AM
:applause: You Sly dog! HaHaHa.....

Man that is so @#$! cool, you stuck with your concept you had in mind and pulled it out. This was really nice to see.....now get back to work!! :twisted:

ArtisticVisions
04-04-2005, 02:11 AM
The girl's looking pretty good (torso might still be a little big, but considering its the shirt, maybe not :shrug: ). The hair kinda looks like plastic, but I think you said that you're still surfacing the model.

So far so good. :)

Climax
04-04-2005, 02:45 AM
• Nice progress James! I suggest to look for photograps to find the exact skin color you want and then go ahead in photoshop, texurizing is not that bad....mapping is :p

ace4016
04-04-2005, 05:00 AM
jddog - Thanks. I'll be working on the textures/shaders for her somewhere down the line. In the mean time I'll rig her and try to finish the robot's design for the arms and head. Don't know if I'll get any work done during the week, but, I'll see.

Kid Mesh - Thanks. Now, I must go back to work:wip: .

ArticticVisions - Yea, I figured I'd spend the entire challenge trying to get her torso the right human size, but I also remembered, she's more cartoony then real, plus she has a shirt on. I haven't mapped the hair yet, or really started messing with hair shaders; not easy to find info on hair made this way since everyone likes to use hair plug-ins.

Climax - thanks. It took me 6-8 hours (lost track of time) to get everythnig unwrapped. It was hell. The skin color you see is a real huma skin color, just its only that color and no variation like real skin. For me, textureing with a mouse is horrible, I have almost no control, but I guess its just going to take a bit of practice. This is a challenge after all, and was meant for us to get better, so I just have to plow on through. I think I'm going to ask for a wacom for my birthday, too bad my birthday is todays after the challenge ends.

3dRaven
04-04-2005, 11:16 AM
Wow Ace you're on the brink of a massive post number there, gotta celebrate :beer: These challenges sure add to the count

Kanga
04-04-2005, 11:32 AM
Lookin good man!

Raise the upper parts of the hands to give them more volume on top.
Move the forearm bump above the elbow more towards the shoulder.
Pull the hand end of the upper arm muscle at the shoulder more in the elbow direction.
Inside thighs a little outwards.

Great stuff!
Keep it comin.

ace4016
04-04-2005, 12:07 PM
3dRaven - I didn't even notice, it sure is time to celebrate:beer: . Thanks again for the help on the skin, I'll b sure to post the results:thumbsup: .

Kanga - Thanks for the advise, I'll try to fix those asap.

I just realized that this weekend, I will most likely be able to start the robot:eek: (unless I mentioned it before, then I am just forgetting). We'll see how it goes.

UK3D
04-04-2005, 12:24 PM
Nice start. At least you have the whole figure in place, I'm making a little girl in my entry too but only just made a start on her head... Look forward to seeing how you develop her. :)

ArtisticVisions
04-04-2005, 01:31 PM
ArticticVisions - Yea, I figured I'd spend the entire challenge trying to get her torso the right human size, but I also remembered, she's more cartoony then real, plus she has a shirt on. I haven't mapped the hair yet, or really started messing with hair shaders; not easy to find info on hair made this way since everyone likes to use hair plug-ins.
You're using Lightwave, correct? Here (http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/modeling/hair/index.html) is a good tutorial on creating polygonal hair (it's a few years old, the technique still works well). :)

ace4016
04-04-2005, 01:58 PM
Thanks ArtistiVisions. I use max, but the tutorial still applies. I think I'm going to visit the lightwave tutorial section a bit more often, I've found more then one of thier tutorials useful in max in the past.

UK3D - Thanks, and goo luck on you girl.

Its my 1,000 post:bounce: !

Kanga
04-04-2005, 02:54 PM
Yup kool tutorial,... indeed doesn't really matter that it is for Lightwave. Good link!

Versiden
04-04-2005, 03:49 PM
heya James

yup, skin is hard to get right.. pure headache dude.. try color picking from a photo. try to remember that skin is not just one color, it's kinda patchy in reds/oranges/ yellows/greens/pinks..

study a photo and see where different areas on the skin are what color...

MaZzuk
04-04-2005, 04:17 PM
Hi)
May be you`ll try to add some textuers. I think it will look beter.
And Good Luck!

Aethyrprime
04-04-2005, 11:27 PM
Great work. Coming along very nicely James. Keep working on it. No crits yet.

TheFirstAngel
04-05-2005, 04:10 AM
very great progress mate!
i am not 100% sure but i think lw offers sss shading as well, so i am 100% sure you'll get that nailed as well. your progress is unbelievable and i'm very happy to see how great you get along my friend! Congrats on that! The face you made is so cute! also, the body turned out really well. Bout a slight suggestion, hands look a bit flat still and fingers a bit long.
keep it up James. and be proud of yourself, you really made a HUGE progress in a very short time... keep on rocking!:buttrock:

blackdragoncg
04-05-2005, 01:34 PM
Going good looking good! Keep it up snoop :thumbsup:

alex.h.
04-05-2005, 05:52 PM
great work and keep sending updates, thanks for ansering biped question, see you and :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Claireabella
04-05-2005, 05:57 PM
Hi James. Great stuff so far. Putting off my body building 'til the last moment! Might need some hints and tips.............! :scream: Claireabella

MaZzuk
04-07-2005, 08:49 AM
Man! dont give up! we want to see your progress!:thumbsup:

3dRaven
04-07-2005, 09:26 AM
How goes the skin shader testing....we're all waiting for some updates mate :)

Lemog
04-07-2005, 09:31 AM
I'm waiting the continuation too... impatiently... :bounce:

ace4016
04-07-2005, 10:32 AM
lol, wow, more psot then I was excpecting. Just got done checking around 80 email notifications (and still more to go).

Kanga - yup, I've even used maya tutorials too (maybe not on this project though)

Versiden - I wil try to do just that, it's just I'm having trouble painting and getting the subtle skin effects. I have a few ideas on how I am going to appraoch this with a mouse (and I am definetley looking to buy a wacom, although i probably wont get it 'till after the challenge).

MaZzuk - I'm working on the textures, as well as procedurals (for either a mix with texturing or backup). And don't worry, I haven't given up, just got a little busy, but now that I have free time again I'll have an update tonight (around 16 hours from now, maybe a lot sooner).

Richard - Thanks.

Angel - Thanks. I'll be tweaking the mesh soon. I hope I can translate lw shader jargon into max materials.I'll try to make even more progress. Seems like the reason for these challenges is working.

blackdragoncg - Thanks.

Alex - No problem, although I think rattlesnake explained it a bit better. Hoepfully I'll have an update soon.

Claireabella - Thanks. Good luck on the body modeling and all, I'll be sure to help when I can, just keep going, you can do it.

3dRaven - I was real sleepy when I had time to mess with the materials, still experimenting a lot. I am trying to take all the resources I have on the skin and applying them to the shader. I hope to be able to show a decent update soon.

Lemog - I'm wokring on it:wip: .

I never thought I'd be spending more then 2 weeks on the girl, so this weekend I have to work on this double time. Seems like I joined this challenge when things get busy, have to allocate a bit of time to getting back into web design/programming (which, oddly enough, got me into 3d in the first place). I don't have to put too much time into it tohugh, so it shouldn't affect the challenge at all, especially since this semester of college ends soon, so I'll have a lot of free time starting May 1, but since I have 56k back home, I'll try doing as much as I can before April ends.

I am currently working on an update, thanks for all the support.

DimitrisLiatsos
04-07-2005, 10:44 AM
I'm waiting the continuation too... impatiently... :bounce:


Me too Mr .Snoopy :bounce: ...waiting for more

DaddyMack
04-07-2005, 11:50 AM
Coming along really well ace, but where's the ups ay? Don't tell me you're out having a life...slacker;)

ace4016
04-08-2005, 02:32 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112927570_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1112927570_large.jpg)

I'm still working on the textures. what you see right now is mainly procedural, with a color map made by the cloud filter in PS (yea I know I shouldn't use filters, but I have no painting skill). I have hair for her, but I think I'll redo it since it didnt come out as nice as I thought it would. I'll have to do a cleaner job at making the hair. The dark area on the skin near the sleeves is somehow the shadow of the shirt, but the shirt is pretty much skin tight. The shirt looks a bit weird, and I dont know why. I'll probably have more to show tomorrow.

3dRaven
04-08-2005, 02:01 PM
Nice start on the skin ace although I'd add a falloff to the ambient slot...adds a little rim light effect to the skin

ace4016
04-08-2005, 03:58 PM
Thanks 3dRaven. I fell asleep sending the update, been a real busy week for me. I was wondering what the ambient slot exactly did, and I didnt get to experiment much since I fell asleep too early yesturday. I also have to make a few mesh tweaks still (good thing it won't disturb the UV map). I wish I knew how to paint and get the effects right in ps. I'll be working on the hair soon. Took me a while to understand which slots needed a negative image and which needed the positive. I already have the bones set up for rigging already, just have to tweeak the mesh. Once all that is done, its on to the robot. That also reminds me that I need a name for the girl, the robot, and the entry. For the girl, how about Sue?

JamesMK
04-08-2005, 05:00 PM
Coming along fine :thumbsup:

For the skin paint, try using some good high resolution photos and clone-brush your texture, then fiddle around a bit with soft brushes in burn and dodge mode to get colour variations. There's a lot of good skin at http://www.imageafter.com - look for the "nature characters humanparts" category.

ace4016
04-08-2005, 09:41 PM
Thanks wabbit, thats a great link. I'll try to get as much done this weekend since I feel that I am behind schedule. Possible update tonight.

TheFirstAngel
04-09-2005, 03:29 AM
looks very good! and... nothing against focused use of procedurals, beecause no matter ho close you moove on them, they look fine. so you can still work with masks to partitionally blend them weaker or stronger appearing, and use tyny cellulars for bump accents for example. fall offs in general are very good friends of skin :) try decent amount of a fresnel on skin's reflection slot, start with amount 5 and look at the effect, if you find it too much go to 2... at the end, its all about tweaking
if you dont wanna try subsurface scattering or transluscency, you can also put a copy of your diffuse on a slight amount like 2-5...on the refraction slot... causes a lightup on dark areas as well. keep it up my friend, and if i can help you, contact me over my msn... ok?
keep it up mate:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Hooch
04-09-2005, 07:51 AM
there you go mate! :scream:

coming along just fine, the nose look too Sharp for my taste though. :)

abz
04-09-2005, 11:49 AM
Hi your work is looking very good :thumbsup: ...
I feel the eyes are too large...if you want it that ways then its absolutely fine...just wanted to tell my observation.
Keep up the good work!!
Cheers!!

ace4016
04-09-2005, 11:09 PM
Angel - Thanks for the shader tips. I've started on some of the suggestions, including yours, but I don't really have anything to show right now, for some reason I've been sleeping a lot (guess those 48 hour days are catching up to me).

Hooch - Thanks. I'll try making the nose more blunt.

abz - Thanks. The eyes are big like because she is suppose to be cartoony. I hope to see more of your work. You need an avatar:p .

I have artist block (like writers block). I think I've been tweaking and looking at the girl for too long. I think I have to go to something else for now, like work on the remianing parts of the robot concept, or work on the composition and teh plan of the entire image. I rigged her, but the shoulders (the arm pits actually) are giving me trouble. And I think I'll give her cartoony hair, no need for realistic hair if she is in a catoon style herself.

Note to self and others: Don't look at the FFVII trailer, it only makes you jelous.

TheFirstAngel
04-09-2005, 11:24 PM
Don't look at the FFVII trailer, it only makes you jelous.
aaaaahahahahaha, all the way. yeah. evil guys. but we're here a league of our own, to get out a great work of a not so strong equippement takes much planing and optimized workflows. We don't have a renderfarm most of us. So whatever we know out of the box is hard worked and well deserved and lets set a target: lets make THEM jealous.... :rolleyes: at least worth a try.

For your texturing progress, keep it up snoopy, looking froward to your progress there! go go go mate!

Virtuoso
04-09-2005, 11:56 PM
I agree.....with angel.....And by the way I like the direction you are going Ace......Keep this up,nice update the tone is well on it's way.hammer and hammer away more so,like the rest of us....I'll be looking out for more.....I like the eye size....perhaps you can give a bit more eye lid size.....

I think the nose could be a bit more petit....more of an upslope...cuter this way...All in all you are marching forward.....it is coming along.....keep at it like this Ace......see you soon.....work well.....:thumbsup:

ace4016
04-10-2005, 02:53 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1113101604_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1113101604_large.jpg)

Just did a little sketch. Had to get my mind off of the girl for now. What do you guys/gals think? Too simplistic?

TheFirstAngel
04-10-2005, 03:06 AM
nah, essential designs are the result of intense researches. Simple bases for an alloverstyle trough a model are important, you still can greeble him up here and there (of course only where that makes sense) but there's nothing against simple designs. had t bit trouble to see it, not cuz its too small, hahaha, sitting here on a dual 21 inch screen set and still had to scroll and enlarge my browserwindow 3 times to see the design... uhm next time scale it a bit... maybe? ;) lol, jk. more of a point: it would help to show it in relation, like placement and fitting to the alloverdesign. keep on going, c you soon mate! cheers:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

ace4016
04-10-2005, 05:19 AM
lol, sorry about the size, forgot that scanned images come out a bit big. The square thing at the top is a fist by the way. I wanted the arm to match the tekka armor style that I was influenced by with the other parts of the armor (looking back at tekkaman refrences brought back so much memories, think i'm goign to buy a dvd set:p ). I'll put the peices together so you can see everything as one thing. I must not have been thinking, I asked if the design was too simple as if I was confident I could even do the simplest of the parts. I probably have to re-design some parts, but I want to start on the bot soon, and still need a name for him and the girl (so far I've got Sue and Katie for the girl, and nothing for the bot). Hmm, Think I'll create the head now, I just have to stay away from the girl if I am going to finish her.

Virtuoso - Thanks. I was actually goign for a cute nose, just didn't know what else to do to it, now I know. Any advice for a pretty/cute hairstyle?

Man, I can't wait to start on the bot:bounce: . Make a formitable enemy for him, and I can try making an animation to make those guys at square enix jelous of me (haha, high hopes, I know).

TheFirstAngel
04-10-2005, 05:31 AM
waiting for that snoopy attack and looking forward to that overflight, fly snoopy fly!

Shaykai
04-10-2005, 04:04 PM
Looking good so far mate, The look of the armor looks like it wil rule when its fully modeled. Your girl model looks very good as well, it may be a bit too late for this critique but from the last image you posted of her it looks like her ear is a little too high on her head, but that might just be the angle and the fact she has no hair :) Anyway keep up the great work!

Shaykai

ace4016
04-10-2005, 05:18 PM
Thanks guys. Shaykai, I've looks at the ears over and over and tehy mtch up with the level of the eyes, but might be just a tiny bit too high. They will most likely be covered with hair so it's not the biggest of deals. I might decide to drag them down a bit, it's not going to mess up the stack so moving a few vertices around isn't a problem.

I put the arms together with the rest of the armor, and I think I am going to change the abdominal pieces into just two instead of four; I think it looks akward to have four like that. I'm working on the head too, but I can't decide if I want the spikes to point towards the ground (in which case the spikes will fall onto his shoulders like hair, search tekkaman dagger for example, only used him for reference, not copy), or do I want them to point up (so many examples I dont think I have to explain). I don't know which will fit better, any opinions? I'm also having trouble getting a front view of the head, but I have time. Once I get the head, I'll post the complete concept. Then I will start on him once I am satisfied.

ace4016
04-10-2005, 09:26 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1113168359_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1113168359_large.jpg)

Ok, 6 hours of trying to think up of a better chest piece just went to waste. I couldn't think up of anything that matches the rest of the pieces better. I couldn't draw the head in front view, so I just put the side view there near the legs. Of course, while modeling, I may change up a few pieces (mainly the chest), but this is bascially what I want to create for the robot.

ace4016
04-10-2005, 09:31 PM
So there you pretty much have it, the head. Its still up for revision though, but I like it. The blade closest to hte front of the face lays on the shoulder/chest, the one behind it lays on the shoulder/back and the huge blade thing doesnt lay on anything. The shoulders will be pointier, and the stomach pieces will be 2 instead of 4 (I couldn't draw it since the pencil was to dark and I didn't feel like tracing ands all that good stuff). Any opinions on the design? Do you guys see anything that looks like it doesn't fit in the design? Oh, and I decided the girls name will be Katie (I'm horrible with making names).

Aethyrprime
04-11-2005, 12:18 AM
Should look cool.. so when do you start modeling it?

ace4016
04-11-2005, 12:22 AM
I'm modeling the arms right now:D , the armor part of it that you see in the sketch atleast. Kind of wish I knew how to nurbs model; if this challenge was 3 months long, I would have tried to learn nurbs. Oh, and I started from the arms becuase I know that's one part I won't change.

3dRaven
04-11-2005, 09:56 PM
Jumpin to the next model Ace :thumbsup:.....can't wait to see the progress on him...

Small tip: Remember to get him the right scale before rigging (I hate it when I miss out on that step...)

ace4016
04-12-2005, 10:06 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1113343614_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1113343614_large.jpg)

Nothing big. I started on the head and arm(s); didn't add the shell modifier yet and there's a bit more tweaking to do. Guess this is more like blocking. All I did was make a few planes, shape them into the parts, used the symmetry modifier, and meshsmooth iter. 2. The material is temporary, haven't yet decided what shader of color scheme he will have.

ace4016
04-12-2005, 10:16 PM
Thanks 3dRaven, I'll remember that when it come time to rig (which won't be hard at all). Would have had an update sooner, and more to show, but I was messing with nurbs before I figured it would takee me too long figuring out how to work with nurbs, plus I had to figure out how to translate some of the pieces into 3d since I didnt draw another angle for the pieces.

Ok, so far the color schemes I have for this guy are black/silver; black/cobalt; red/white; and grey/cobalt. I can't decide on a color yet, any votes? I'll probably work more on this guy later tonight.

3dRaven
04-12-2005, 10:59 PM
Guess the colors would depend strongly on the background he's in....should he blend in or stand out.....?? I never used nurbs in max......jumped straight to NURMS....

ace4016
04-13-2005, 02:47 AM
Guess the colors would depend strongly on the background he's in....should he blend in or stand out.....?? I never used nurbs in max......jumped straight to NURMS....

Hm, I want to stay away from a camo scheme, doesn't match his desing style what so ever. I'm thinking he wasn't painted for desert terrain, it just so happen to be that the military base was in the boondocls of the desert. I want him to stand out bit so it is easy for the viewer to see, I guess a darker color scheme, would be more appropriete; maybe even stay away from reds and oranges. Sorry just thinking out loud. I've modeled with splines first in max, the went to poly/NURMS; I'm still with NURMS, I can't find too many NURBS tutes, so maybe after the challenge I'll try learning them. Now, back to work on this guy:wip: .

3dRaven
04-13-2005, 07:32 AM
James maybe think of a little backstory for the robot......where was he built...was he a build as a "bodyguard" or did he have a different function eariler......guess that could determine his paint job....

ace4016
04-15-2005, 01:30 AM
Well, I did write a story, but I guess it didn't go into enough detail. So, I decided to work on the story since I couldn't work on the models. I'll post the complete project plan as soon as I figure out a name for the robot (his color scheme will be urban area based; e.g. silver/grey w/ black). I have to write a paper tonight, but I'll probably get back to work on the modeling and stuff tomorrow.

Aethyrprime
04-15-2005, 05:49 PM
Good start on that model. Looking forward to your story update. keep it up!

jddog
04-16-2005, 12:15 PM
A little early to post some crits or comment on what are you doing... but I continue to check :wip:

jdd

ace4016
04-17-2005, 04:20 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1113711643_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1113711643_large.jpg)

Modeled most of the main pieces. Almost all the peices are in a seprate file, and I merged them all in one file jsut to see where I am at right now. I just have to make a few fixes on each piece, finish the chest and start on the boots, add the under-pieces (the parts like the rest of the arms, abs, and thigh), and then I will finally fix them into one scene and make adjustments, as need. There still isn't a shell modifier so the pieces are just thin polygons with no back-face. Just thought I'd update.

ace4016
04-17-2005, 04:31 AM
Richard - Thanks. I still need a name for the robot, any ideas; I'm pretty bad at coming up with names.

jddog - :wavey:

The road to being a good modeler is long, argh!! It takes me less and less time to figure out how to build each piece, so I think I am imporving on speed, just gotta improve on quality now:rolleyes: . *sigh*, back to work.....

rattlesnake
04-17-2005, 07:13 AM
hi mate...yeah the main shape is looking cool, i think that the shell modifier youre planning to add will give it a great touch...what are u planning fot texture mate? maybe some nice shapes in the bump slot?.
the design on this is nice, looking forward to see how it developes..:thumbsup::bounce:

3dRaven
04-17-2005, 07:17 AM
Finally an update yay....getting some good speculars on the robot....guess you could go for a car paint style texture for him??

Virtuoso
04-17-2005, 07:30 AM
Hi james.......The road to getting what you want is getting more clear.....just keep working,and keep learning........I like the shape the overall proportion you have set up...it's a different way of doing things.....but looks like you have a plan........once these shapes have some thickness they will pop out real well......Will you give metal abs.....metal arms.....etc,etc...?.....or possibly your robot can become a knight......show some flesh around the abs and or the arms......Or part human/knight robot.....A mix of all Worlds....just thinking out loud here......Keep it coming,,,,,your coming up with a nice effort here.....Keep working hard as you are....it's going to pay off.....Until next time.......all the best to you........:arteest:

DaddyMack
04-17-2005, 07:45 AM
Hey James, this has come a really long way mat:thumbsup: Those bodbits are looking stronger and stronger...I'm really looking forward to seeing them solid mate, Good luck!

ace4016
04-17-2005, 08:21 AM
Snake - Thanks. Well, the textures....:rolleyes: ....lol who knows. I like the smooth look so far, and according to the story (which I will release as soon as aI find a name for this guy), he is pretty new, so no rust, just a few scratches from the fight, and sand on him (since it is in a desert). I can't think up of any special things to put on him, maybe the Jovad or Arkan ensignia.

3dRaven - Hehe, busy week for me. Car paint sounds good, but I can't make him too shiny I think. We will see.

Michael - Thanks. Funny think you mention knights; the Tekka style was based off knights armor. Well, since the abs have to be flexible, I will make two metal pieces for the abs, and inbetween them, a flexible space. The part of the thigh that isn't shown yet, the upper arms, the neck, fingers, and the flexible ab space will be black and a dull rubber texture (of course it won't be actual rubber).

The cgtalker formerly known as sumdumguy - Thanks:thumbsup: . Hopefully they will be solid by tomorrow, depends on if I am in my "groove" or not.

Now it's time for me to put the video games down and get back to work.

3dRaven
04-17-2005, 12:08 PM
Now it's time for me to put the video games down and get back to work.

Haha...they're real time killers.....I wanna buy MGS3 but I'm afraid I won't finish the challenge if I do...:)

TheFirstAngel
04-18-2005, 02:45 AM
Looking good, wish you much fun with the detailing and the textures :D keep it up lord snoop :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

3dRaven
04-18-2005, 11:16 PM
|U|
|P|
|D|
|A|
|T|
|E|

plzzzz :)

ace4016
04-19-2005, 02:46 AM
Angel - Thanks. Fun with the texturing? HA! most unlikely thing, but we will see.

3dRaven - lol, glad you think my girl was a big jump from before, hope the robot goes even farther, but we will see. I shelled most of the parts, but I am still working on completing the chest. Maybe there will be an update tonight.

I am also still looking for a name for this guy *hint hint*. I'll keep thinking about it.

3dRaven
04-19-2005, 07:40 AM
I am also still looking for a name for this guy *hint hint*. I'll keep thinking about it.

How about Frank?? :D

On second thought maybe give him a snazy serial number?

ace4016
04-19-2005, 08:31 AM
Frank? lol, Its better then anything I can come up with. I finsihed shelling the pieces and making the chest piece, but I'll wait 'till a bit more is done on the model (e.g. stomach metal or under parts).

EDIT: saw your edit. You mean something like Nos-4-A-2 (i wont be using that, belongs to disney's Buzz Lightyear).

3dRaven
04-19-2005, 08:44 AM
You mean something like Nos-4-A-2

Guess ED-209 is out of the question too?? :D

ace4016
04-19-2005, 08:59 AM
lol, so is CP30 and R2-D2. Just to show how bad my names are, I came up with AAU (Arkanian Attack Unit, pronounced ow). lol, well that and I-4-A-I.

3dRaven
04-19-2005, 09:20 AM
AAU - Guess you could go a bit wild with the fonts. Maybe make a company logo for him too, hey corporations love that sort of stuff..... unless he's a prototype??

ace4016
04-19-2005, 09:26 AM
He's out of the prototype phase. I was planning paint a Jovad emblem on him, part of the textures I am tryign to figure out. hehe, I've got to post that staory so you people know what the hell I am talking about when I say Arkanian or Jovadian. Be back in a sec.....

ace4016
04-19-2005, 09:33 AM
Directly from my project plan file (i stole the idea of a project plan file from DaddyMack :D ):

CGTalk Challenge - Master & Servant
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::Title:::
Mission Failed (name W.I.P.)

:::Story:::
The Jovad (a made up nation) government has been conquering neighboring nations for the past 10 years. The reach of their empire had finally gotten to the Arkanian nation, a nation known for thier advance technology and military strength. The Arkanians had been putting up a fight for a while, but the Jovadian forces were jsut to powerful. Although the Jovadians defeated the Arkanians, large numbers of Arkanians band together to create a rebel force that stopped the Jovadian forces from continuing on thier conquest of other nations. The Arkanian rebel forces began to gather rebel forces from other Jovad conquered nations to assist in the fight. As punishment to the non-rebel Arkanians, The Jovad government has been oppressing the Arkanian people severely.

The Jovad governemt finally got fed up with the fact that a rebel group was holding them back and started counter strike operation to get rid of all the rebel force. They began kidnapping and forcing Arkanian scientist and engineers to work on weaponry to overpower the Arkanian forces. One of the best Arkanian robotics engineer was most desired by the Javadian military, but he was also one of the hardest to capture. The Jovadian military found out that the engineer had a daughter, who they kidnapped and held captive to force the engineer to work for them. He was lead engineer on the contruction of a robotic super soldier, a warmachine. The engineer planned to get his daughter away from the facility, and use the opportunity of having all the resources available to him and the other scientist to make a weapon strong enough to give the Arkanian rebels an upper hand in the fight against the Jovad. The rest of the scientist and engineers agree, and secretly programmed the robot to obey the engineer's daughter only.

All testing and prototype work was done, and it was time to release the robot, AAU, on its first official mission. He was to be carried off the base, brought to a location near a an old Arkanian city, that was destroyed during the conquest of the Jovad. This area was known for housing a primary rebel force that has been cuasing trouble lately. As AAU was being released, the engineer signaled his daughter to stand next to him, so that he can pick her up and run. The engineer quickly ran to the base gates to shut them after AAU and his daughter escaped. We was successful, but was shot after he closed them.

Much of the Jovadian military was locked in the base for enough time to let AAU and the littel girl escape, but some units were able to chase the two. During the fight to get away, AAU came to clsoe to an explosion, and the some debris hit the little girl. AAU successfully stopped the forces that got through, but the little girl was hurt, and he was to close to the base to administor first aid to the little girl. He had to slowly walk away from the scene of the fight with his injured master, knocked out in his arms.


:::Characters::::
Master:
Name - Katie
Age - 10
Hair Color - Black/dark Brown
Eye color - Green


Servant:
Name - AAU (Arkanian Assualt Unit) [name W.I.P.]
Color Scheme - Urban [black/silver; black/cobalt; grey/cobalt]
Style - Blade assault

:::Scenery:::
AAU was made to make urban assaults, although he is all terrain. The base where Katie and AAU escaped from was in a kahki sand desert. The scene will have the base and the smoking troops far in the background, far enough that it will really just be a silouhette(sp?). AAU will be carrying Katie, while katie is passed out in his arms. The time of day will be sunset (orange sky and lighting).

:::Additional information:::
AAU had to leave all external weaponry behind, which led to the close range battles with the Jovad troops, which led to Katie being hurt because she was close.

3dRaven
04-19-2005, 09:59 AM
Wow an in depth storyline :) Nice addition to the entry. How about adding some debris, ruins of the arkanian city in the background?? Can be a painted matte of the city (to save render time)...mainly its silhouette....

ace4016
04-19-2005, 10:19 AM
Wow, there are probably so many grammatical errors in that thing; guess thats what I get for using notepad instead of works. Anyways, back on topic, I am hopeing to paint the base for the background (of course a silhouette, i couldn't paint if my life depended on it). The reason I can't put the Arkanian ruins in the background is because that is where AAU and Katie are headed, for protection and aid. hehe, i can spit out stories like crazy; it's because I have never gotten to write down a story, or no one wanted to listen :sad: (cgtalk is so much friendlier then the real world :love: ).

3dRaven
04-19-2005, 10:44 AM
The stories fine Ace....
(cgtalk is so much friendlier then the real world :love: ).

Look at it this way, all CGTalkers live in this world so it can't be all that bad :D

Kanga
04-19-2005, 08:45 PM
Nice story!
Big ol mean war machine with a tender little one in his arms!
Noticed you started building from the outside in, pretty novel.
Keep em comin :thumbsup:

DaddyMack
04-19-2005, 08:55 PM
Hey there ace, great story and fact sheet mate:thumbsup: And I really like the way the rogot is coming along mate...Keep it up;)

UK3D
04-19-2005, 09:57 PM
Hi James,
Keep going it's starting to look interesting now. Lot's of potential here lets see it pulled together. More more... :thumbsup:

ace4016
04-20-2005, 02:28 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1113964134_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1113964134_large.jpg)

Well, I added the shell modifier for volume on the pieces, and started the abdominal shield and flex-body underneath the armor. I also finished the chest. I think the outer thigh armor piece needs a bit more work. I probably need a light setup and better angles for next update. Unless I find a better name, his name is AAU (pronounced ow).

TheFirstAngel
04-20-2005, 02:32 AM
Love the insectlike way he comes up. the design comes together very niceley, actually his chest looks like a smiling skull a bit. edit. i see faces everywhere. its 4.30. I'd better sleep...
great update my friend! keep on rocking!

ace4016
04-20-2005, 03:20 AM
3dRave - lol, of course the world isn't that bad, just better in the cgtalk world :p . Thanks for the help with the name

Kanga - Thanks. Do you mean I built the story from the outside in? It would seem like that since I told the shortened version first, but usually when I make a story it quickly develops and just spills out; but I thought I would have bored you guys if I had posted the entire story, or atleast this much of it.

DaddyMack - Thanks. The project plan file really helped get things organized; got to thank you for that idea.

UK3D - Thanks. I hope to show a lot more soon, we will see.

Angel - Thanks man. I can see eyes maybe, but a skull? hehe, maybe its just me and my horrible eye sight. More to come :buttrock: .


Chest looks like it needs some work....I'll hopefully have a lot mroe updates thursday.

DaddyMack
04-20-2005, 04:35 AM
Hey ace, you're really pulling this guy together well! Keep it up mate:thumbsup:

3dRaven
04-20-2005, 07:10 AM
I agree with the smiling skull :) Looks real nice which the shell modifier...can't wait to see the face on the bot

ace4016
04-20-2005, 07:24 AM
DaddyMack - Thanks again. Appreciate the encouragement:thumbsup: .

3dRaven - If the hip is the smile, then I see it now, if not....then I need to og to the eye doctor. Hehe, about the face, because of the black you most likely won't be able to see the eyes unless they glow. Seems like I foudn a reason to finally use the self-illumination slot in the material editor. Eye color won't be red, that would make him stand out like a sore thumb in an urban area (unless he is disguising himelf as a stop light).

ace4016
04-21-2005, 10:31 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1114079496_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1114079496_large.jpg)

I modeled the neck and the flex-body arms. I have to fix the arms and add the sternomastocleidoid muscle effect to the neck. I changed the color of the mask to silve since it was extremely hard to see it. I'll probably only paint the eyes and make them glow so they are visible. It's 6:30am, time to go to take a break (or go to sleep). I'll work on the knees, ankles, and boots later today (or tomorrow, my days are blurred).

3dRaven
04-21-2005, 10:41 AM
Pitty you coved up most of his face with a mask. If he was in battle maybe damage part of it to reveal bits of his robotic face?

ace4016
04-21-2005, 10:54 AM
lol, he doesn't have a face really, it would be just machine parts underneath. I'll think about that much body damage will be dealt. I realized I forgot to unhide the shoulder gaurd. Oh, interesting fact about AAU, he can't talk :rolleyes: . Wasn't so interesting. Hm, I'm going to have to map and paint all those pieces, aren't I :eek: :cry: :banghead: . Before I worry about that, I have to pick a design anyways.

3dRaven
04-21-2005, 12:06 PM
He doesn't have very complex mesh yet, so I gues you could pull of most of the mapping with planner type.

monsitj
04-23-2005, 07:52 AM
Hi! looking good so far! It' seem that u use patch to model?? or polygon? now your model don't have tickness , maybe u can exturde , or bevel edge will help, this little bevel will catch highlight when rendering and give your model solid feel ! good luck!

ace4016
04-23-2005, 08:27 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1114244868_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/9/5653/5653_1114244868_large.jpg)

I finsihed adding the hands, boots, and flex-body knees. I made the color of the the flex-body material red, and the metallic black blue since it might be hard to see what is what with only black and silver, plus the shadows. I see a bit of curling at the edge of the thigh that I will attempt to fix. Once I am satisfied with the modeling, I will map a few parts (thank goodness for mirroring). Forgot to mess with the neck. C&C welcomed.

ace4016
04-23-2005, 08:43 AM
3dRaven - I don't think he will every have a complicated mesh. Good thing cylinderical and planar mapping fit perfectly for most parts.

Monsit - Thanks for the comment Monsit. I used poly modeling, but I added a shell (solidify in older versions of max) modifier to add thickness. Guess it sin't coming out clear for everyone, I'll try to do something about that.

Just noticed the thighs are too small, got to fix that. Do you guys see anything else? I want to map this character soon; rigging will be easy (I think). The I finish the skinnig and hair for the girl, move on to the enviroment and lighting, and maybe some background stuff, and I am done.....I think.

Lemog
04-23-2005, 09:17 AM
First place for the design... I like it... really...

maybe he need a bit more details on the arm parts... that appear big part whitout details... especially if you compare that with the legs parts... good continuation James :bounce:

3dRaven
04-23-2005, 10:29 AM
I'd make the hands a bit bigger & arm bands a bit smaller (unless they're supposed to work as sorta shields??).

Give him a nice anistropic shader with a fresnel reflection falloff . You Can use a bitmap for tests in the end switch to raytrace). He sould look realy cool once the textures are in place.