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hugodog
03-21-2005, 12:59 AM
Hi guys...

Well I'm new to Vue. While playing with animation using
Vue4Pro, I was very dissapointed with flickers that's very
noticeable around the detailed textures and leaves and
other small details.

I've tried higher anti-alias setting and motion blur, but
they just won't go away. If I set anti-alias to maximum
quality, then rendering time is not really useful for
animation.

I was wondering if Vue5Infinite has also the same problem.
Or, I hope, I was missing something? Am I?

Please help,
Regards,

richcz3
03-21-2005, 05:04 AM
I sure hope not.
Waiting on Infinite copy to arrive, thats not a small detail.
Someone in this forum already pointed out a suspected render noise in the quicktime movies on e-ons site. I believe it was explained away as a QT compression artifacts.

It would be great if someone could run a test with Infinite to verify.

videodv
03-21-2005, 08:03 AM
here is a test render using the standard final settings in infinite, I belive the problem on earlier versions was to do with texture settings and lighting setup.

http://www.videodvdownloads.co.uk/downloads/twinkletest1.avi

videodv.

Phoul
03-21-2005, 08:39 AM
suspected render noise in the quicktime movies on e-ons site. I believe it was explained away as a QT compression artifacts.

I compressed the QT. I suppose I made bad work. Sorry.
Nothing suspect.

And there is powerful new Advanced Options in v5i.

Blazer
03-21-2005, 01:13 PM
The chatter is still very noticeable in the trees and the ground at the far distance.

Just a note, flying quickly through the trees isn't a good showcase of this. Try rendering out a slow move at high res with high quality compression.

richcz3
03-21-2005, 03:21 PM
Thanks videodv and Phoul for the test and for pointing out the new render settings.

I just recieved an email that my copy has shipped this morning so I hope to get allot of experimenting this week. Most of my animated material will be rendered to NTSC D1 or greater, so eliminating the granular movement is very important.
As for advanced settings; if render times per frame go through the roof I imagine that some issues may be better addressed in post render, but I would prefer not to go that route. I'll keep my fingers crossed. :)

Phoul
03-21-2005, 03:28 PM
BTW...
With water (tiny waves, and/or waves very far away from camera), with tiny material, with material with effects, etc, I always render at "Ultra" Quality. Sometimes I remove bump and work the color function... etc. I mean some test are very important before launch a final broadcast.
:shrug:

Anyway,
have fun with your coming next copy!
:thumbsup:

Phoul
03-26-2005, 10:06 AM
Today the March 26th, there is a new update (Build 275946).
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Download/Updates.php
:)
I read "Improved texture anti-aliasing over Billboards, Platns and EcoSystems."
:thumbsup:

hugodog
04-08-2005, 02:37 AM
Can someone verify that?

I've tried fixing them from post render. but it's very difficult
to remove all those tiny flickering (mainly from leaves and
trees) from post. I end up getting a blury image just to
remove the flickers. (anyone knows a good trick?)

I really hope Vue5I new updates can fix this before I upgrade.

Thank you

videodv
04-08-2005, 07:12 AM
Can someone verify that?

I've tried fixing them from post render. but it's very difficult
to remove all those tiny flickering (mainly from leaves and
trees) from post. I end up getting a blury image just to
remove the flickers. (anyone knows a good trick?)

I really hope Vue5I new updates can fix this before I upgrade.

Thank you

You need to go into user settings and increase the ray deph default settings , just adjust them to get the best render verses time settings.

With the above test render the quality setting was set to 100% and the min and max ray depth was at default (motion blur turned off) by upping the default it would have lost all the small twinkles that you see but it would have taken a lot longer to render (the above scene 12 seconds took 16 hours to render on a single machine)

videodv.

happydrunkguy
12-20-2005, 08:25 AM
yeah thanks videodv, been trying for a week trying to mess around with all those anti-alias and other rendering settings but the flickering stopped with your last post. Thank you soo much!!

-happydrunkguy

Bonzodogboy
12-20-2005, 10:50 PM
I have found that it also helps to render out in .tiff sequence...
no flicker, and usable in PS, AE etc...
my 2...
:)

Hunter
12-21-2005, 01:16 AM
You need to go into user settings and increase the ray deph default settings , just adjust them to get the best render verses time settings.

With the above test render the quality setting was set to 100% and the min and max ray depth was at default (motion blur turned off) by upping the default it would have lost all the small twinkles that you see but it would have taken a lot longer to render (the above scene 12 seconds took 16 hours to render on a single machine)

videodv.

Thanks for all your advice here :)

Is that 16 hours for a 320 x 240 render?

W1nCr4sh
12-21-2005, 11:29 AM
here is a test render using the standard final settings in infinite, I belive the problem on earlier versions was to do with texture settings and lighting setup.

http://www.videodvdownloads.co.uk/downloads/twinkletest1.avi

videodv.
thanks for the video

teruchan
12-26-2005, 08:30 PM
I also did a good bit of experimentation to get rid of flicker in my renders. For professional film work, I found it is good to render in layers and composite just like you would in any of the major packages. This test was originally rendered at 1920x1080 in four layers. The largest layer took about 15 minutes a frame while the simplest layer took about 7 mintues per frame.

You can see it by clicking here. (http://www.studioartfx.com/vuetestmovie.html)

I also ran into another issue. To get the appearance of more detail in a tree, I smashed two trees together to make something of a "Supertree". This leads to sorting problems as to which tree to draw on top of the other and which casts shadows on which. Not to be confused with original flicker problem many complained about. I think I'll pay a visit to XFrog to get some different trees. That will solve that problem!

I hope this bit of info helps.

T

kimaldis
12-29-2005, 11:00 PM
try and ignore the quality presets, they're confusing and generally not very useful. Use User settings and look under the anit-aliasing options. Dig around in the custom settings and play around with in particular the minimum and maximum settings. Don't rely too much on static frames to judge results, use short animations when you think you're close to double check what you think is right. Render regions for speed. You can try messing around with texture AA but for the most part I found I didn't need it.

Briefly, AA works by rendering to a higher res and sampling down, but it does it intelligently, only where it thinks it needs it by firing several rays into each pixel. How many it fires depends on the colour contrast between prior rays fired into the pixel. If the contrast is higher than the threshold setting then it fires more rays. Ray count is controlled by the min and max settings. It'll always fire at least 'min' rays but it'll never fire more than 'max'. Threshold is the contrast value that tells it when it's OK to stop firing rays.

Generally, leave the min setting where it is. Raising this kills the render big time. 40 for the max is about right, you may even be able to bring it down to 30 but it's the threshold that really makes a difference. I kicked it up to 90 and bang, everything smoothed right out. In practice you can mayb get it down to around 80 but 60 is way too low. 90 isn't exactly killer when you consider what you're getting but it's not fast either.

Changing ray traced depth won't affect quality, it controls the number of times rays are bounced after a reflection or refraction. For the most part 1 will suffice to give you one reflection from water and it'll make a huge difference to your render times if you lower it.

you might also want to check out things like soft shadows, blurred reflections, depth of field and the like, these are all killers.

Rendering Vue? yes, it can be slow but if you get to know and understand what the settings mean, kick the presets into the bin and custom tailor your settings you'll get good quality at good speeds for most scenes. Like with any renderer, be sensible, understand the limitations and don't try and do stupid stuff.

MsLin
12-29-2005, 11:07 PM
Teruchan: Just a word of warning. Xfrog trees will look great in view, but your render times will go up considerably. I don't do animation, but I know what Xfrog trees do to stills. Maybe Xfrogs close to the camera and other trees back further.

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