PDA

View Full Version : General Info on Vue


irwit
03-15-2005, 02:45 PM
Hi all.

I'm kinda new this program and am seriously tempted to try it out with such a low price and from what I see as a simply awsome program. I am just wondering if someone could give me a step in the right direction for more info?

Ive had a look on the website and they have some nice tutorials but they do seem abit too good to be true. Also there seems to be quite a few versions of the same version of the program, Espirt, profesional etc. What are the differances ? Are these just fancy names for version 5.1 5.2 etc ?

finally are there any good Vue sites for tutorials, FAQs etc. im especially intrestd in the eco systems feature.

Cheers guys

Will ...

dlk30341
03-15-2005, 03:05 PM
Check this link.....scroll to the bottom of the page & you will a find a feature comparison option. Check the ones you'd like to compare & a char will come up :)

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Products/vue5/prostudio/index.php?sid=bf34951cd7028b6e9ad2941d0a3c5f77&l=1

Hope this helps.

Lique
03-15-2005, 03:16 PM
I'd love to give this software a try as well. It seems that its a great program for background scenery. However I'd like to know as well how good is vue in generating plants/trees compared to let say xfrog? I've never tried xfrog my self, but i've seen works created using xfrog.

thanks

agiel
03-15-2005, 03:20 PM
The tutorials in Flash on e-on's website have been created with Vue to begin with, so you can trust they work as advertised.

To simplify the various versions :

- "Vue 5 Esprit" is the basic product (it replaces Vue d'Esprit 4)

- "Vue 5 Pro Studio" is a bundle with Vue 5 Esprit and 4 additional modules that can be purchased separately.

- "Vue Infinite" is the more advanced product (it replaces 'Vue 4 Professional").
This version includes the capabilities of Vue 5, the additional modules, and extra capabilities such as multipass rendering, advanced control of materials and Ecosystems.

It is too early to find tutorials about eco systems as they are only available in the version that was just released, but I am sure they will start popping up soon enough.

As for tutorials to get you started, a good start is the Resource page (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Community/Resources.php)in the Community section of e-on's website ( check out also the Artists page (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Community/Artists.php) , in particular Guitta.net and Dreampaint).

dlk30341
03-15-2005, 04:47 PM
To be honest, Vue trees can't touch Xfrog trees, that said they aren't that bad. The plant editor is OK. I've scanned in tons of leaves so I can change my species quickly. Vue's solid growth plant/tree creates a different version everytime you add a new one. New shape/leaf color etc.

Mike.H
03-15-2005, 06:06 PM
i woudnt go as far as saying they cant touch xfrogs trees :) but xfrogs trees do look slightly better, and since xfrog is good at one thing and one thing only the tree editor has alot more power and freedom, but as far as looks goes vueīs trees do look real good.

The plant editor is the weak point, you cant realy create new species, creating new versions of the same tree specie is a piece of cake (v5 ships with 50 plant species), and combined with the eco system you can create thousands of unique trees in a very short time, but if youīre looking for an application that lets you create brand new species xfrog is better then vue.

Then again, vue isnt a plant/tree application first and foremost it does alot more then that.

To answer the question of which version you need.

IF you need the eco system feature itīs an easy choice, v5Infinite is the only version that can handle eco systems.

as far as v5esprit and v5esprit pro studio goes, pro studio is nothing but a fancy name for v5esprit with all the additional modules added to it(slightly more affordable then buying all the modules one by one).

My recomendation would be v5Infinite if youīre serious about 3d and looking to integrate vue with your existing production line.

Niandji
03-15-2005, 06:09 PM
Hi dlk, I'm not stalking you, honest!

Vue shouldn't really be compared to Xfrog, as Xfrog is just an organic modeller - it has no render capabilities at all. Vue plants and trees, whilst not as detailed as those created in Xfrog, are good enough for middle to distance work, and with a bit of tweaking to the textures can be quite passable close up. The plants also use e-on's solidgrowth technology, where each instance of a generated plant is different from any other. Vue5E ships with about 50 varieties of plant, and with the Pro and infinite versions you are able to edit these into different species.

Vue is an exceptionally good landscape generator at worst, but with a bit of ability or talent, can generate some quite stunning work for the price.

spider1313
03-15-2005, 08:03 PM
....watch your back, Deb! Nick is gaining on you'-)!

I agree with the points made by you both here and have stayed away from x-frog up 'til now due to the size of the files it creates. However, with what I have read and seen regarding 5I's improved memory management, I'm wondering if it isn't time to take a closer look at adding x-frog to my array of progs here? Wonder if we could get one of the lucky ones who already have their copy of 5I to test out an eco-forest full of x-frog trees for us...hint, hint, you lucky guys and gals'-)!

TroC
03-15-2005, 08:13 PM
You are right that Vue trees are not so detailed as X-frogs pants can be - Vue trees polygon size averages from 10 000 - 200 000 polygons, while in X-frog it is unlimited - however as trees are fractal objects you can simply assemble a large tree from a couple single Vue trees:

check this picture:



http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=777835&Start=37&Artist=madasatadpole&ByArtist=Yes (http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=777835&Start=37&Artist=madasatadpole&ByArtist=Yes)



or you can assemble different species of plants as I did for alien vegetation in my scene:



http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=543674&Start=19&Artist=czarnyrobert&ByArtist=Yes (http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=543674&Start=19&Artist=czarnyrobert&ByArtist=Yes)



The big advantage is that Vue plants are not simple 3D meshes, but a kind of real specie - with variations of size, number of branches etc. In X-frog you want 5 different trees you need to model each separately or add modifications "by hand" in Vue it id done in "automatic" mode.



The best solution is have both - get quickly Vue vegetation, and while something special is needed model it in X-frog and import into Vue - Vue can use in ecosystems also all kind of imported objects like X-frog plants.

dlk30341
03-15-2005, 11:08 PM
Hi, Nick...you Vue stalker:D . Glad to see you hear as well.

Edited to add Steve to the stalker list:eek: LOL

In addition to me scanning in my own leaves, I bought a plant/tree book that has TONS of leaves & barks for editing in the Vue species line. I also these new leaves for Xfrog trees as well.

richcz3
03-16-2005, 01:11 AM
Im waiting for my copy of Infinite which I know it started shipping this week.
I'm planning on using it with Lightwave especialy the camera matching ability for animations.

FrenchKiss
03-16-2005, 02:14 PM
There are several different demo versions of the Vue Line of products here (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Download/Try.php).
Many people wh have tried the demos have gone on to buy the product. You may just like what you see!

Mike.H
03-16-2005, 03:28 PM
the v5I demo is due out in q2 this year so youīll have to be alittle patient if youīre going to wait for the demo.

irwit
03-16-2005, 04:09 PM
Cheers for the replies guys. Didnt know this was an Xfrog forums aswell ;o)

Program does sound good and I think the eco system feature is its main selling point, for me anyway.

Hope to see some good WIPs soon from all you existing users and im sure youll hear more from me soon in the form of " How do I ....... " and hopefully not " arrggh why did i buy this piece of ..... "

eliseu gouveia
03-17-2005, 12:34 AM
Iīve downloaded my Vue4 copy from E-Onīs site taking advantage of the very appealing price and 20 minutes into the first couple tutorials, I imediatelly realised I wanted to advance to the next level.

Vue5 will be just that.

videodv
03-17-2005, 08:13 AM
Just rendering up a test scene now 640*480 with a standard hi poly xfrog tree and I have a scene with 5,232,626,728 poly's in it just with the xfrog tree's, looks like it will take about half an hour to render at broadcast quality.

I did a smaller test with 1,557,298,910 polys and it rendered with broadcast quality in 7min 42secs, at 640*480.

will post a pic if you wish when its finished.

Just in case it helps my system is athlon 3200+ win xp home 1gig ram ect

videodv.

stevehowe710
03-17-2005, 11:33 AM
Renderosity has some good tutorials, models, and meshes.

richcz3
03-17-2005, 02:38 PM
videodv Definately post a rendered image when it's done.
What does Broadcast quality mean? NTSC is 720x480.
_

Argh I looked at my order status for Infinite and its still being prepared for shipping.
Anyone get their Infinite release yet? I'm dieing to try out some of those features.

Mike.H
03-17-2005, 03:06 PM
broadcast is usualy used when animating, itīs just a predefined render option targeting animations, except for animations itīs very similar to final rendering in itīs settings.

You can of course go in and customize your render settings aswell to obtain even higher quality (or lower)

videodv
03-17-2005, 03:48 PM
Sorry fell a sleep while rendering just finished a long 16 hour shift, restarting rendering again will post shortly, sorry for the delay


vidoev.

videodv
03-17-2005, 05:20 PM
ok these are just a few very quick renders of simple scene's just to see how the e-co system handles xfrog trees.

this one is in broadcast mode standard settings and at 640*480 and has 5,232,626,728 polys render time 12mins 47 secs

http://www.videodvdownloads.co.uk/downloads/frogtest1.jpg

videodv
03-17-2005, 05:30 PM
and the second one this one is in preview mode but has 25,729,685,156 polys render time 12mins 58 secs

http://www.videodvdownloads.co.uk/downloads/xfrogtest1low.jpg

videodv
03-17-2005, 05:34 PM
and finally I reduced the number of polys to 3,239,003,969 and used broadcast again this rendered in 19mins 17secs

http://www.videodvdownloads.co.uk/downloads/xfrogtest1high.jpg

as I say these are nothing special just my first look at the e-co system, will be getting in to the prog at the weekend when I have time to play around much more, but I must say I am very impressed with how this system works and looking forward to doing some great things with it (I hope) lol.

videodv.

richcz3
03-17-2005, 06:34 PM
25,729,685,156 polys..... Holy freakin molie:eek:

I guess this will have to do for animating WWII dogfights over Western Europe.
But my infinite copy still hasn't shipped...:scream:

Mike.H
03-17-2005, 10:27 PM
yeah itīs a virtual polly digester :)

Blazer
03-20-2005, 01:52 AM
could any of you guys render out a high quality animation at 640 x 480.

I'm a little worried about how capable this is at rendering noiseless animation, considering there was a bit of it in that city fly over.

Please proove this wrong! (even at an hour a frame or more) :)

XChetan
03-20-2005, 02:49 AM
Do you mean the first released city flyover, or the one in the video presentation of Vue? I think the first one was just a rough test, and it could exist noise in it. In the final video, it is pretty smooth, isn't it?

Lique
03-20-2005, 03:51 AM
Hi sorry for another comparison, Has anyone tried Terragen to generate terrains, sky, etc. If you had tried both program, what do you think of the capabilities from both in generating terrain?

Again sorry, i just want to get some opinions.

thanks

richcz3
03-20-2005, 05:58 AM
filik
I worked with Terragen a while back and it can generate some very nice terrains and clouds but it was limited compared to the control and assets provided in Vue. No trees or foilage elements to complete the package. Of course for $99 commercial license it really does allot.
You can see a Terragen image gallery here (http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/gallery/gallerymain.php).

Mike.H
03-20-2005, 12:10 PM
terragen is very capable and this is purely based on my opinion so others might not agree with me for one or another reason.

1. both apps can create terrains of the same equal visual quality (previous to v5 vue was actually alittle behind)

2. vue offers alot more control over your terrains/scenes/output/import/composition

3. terragen creates better looking clouds, bring on better clouds e.on :)

4. you can do alot,lot more in vue then in terragen, which feels in my opinion very limited compared to vue5

5. terrains aside which has the same high quality feeling in both apps i believe that vue is a much better application to pick up if youīre looking for a terrain/scenery application to pluck into your workflow, vue is nowadays progressing at a rapid pace and maturing real quick.

Shortcomings pointed out to vue by the majority of itīs users gets rectified and the latest generation has taken a realy BIG step forward, especialy when it comes to being integrated into a production pipeline, vue has a clear future with lots more improvements comming.

Itīs good enough to be used as a render solution, it can do high quality terrains just as good as terragen but also so much more then just terrains, compare the eco system powered images of zcarny posted here on cgtalk, itīs just not possible to do it in terragen.

There are shortcomings, like the lack of "real" clouds and the tree editor could be improved further on, but im also positive looking at how e.on has improved vue in the last 1.5 year that that will happen in a not to distant future.

just my opinion tho

Lique
03-20-2005, 12:19 PM
thanks richcz3 and mike, ecosystem looks really nice. However if i want to get infinite, i have put it in a good use, since the price is not so cheap anymore. but looking from eon improvements on vue, seems that i'm going to get at least 5 esprit.

Mike.H
03-20-2005, 01:08 PM
well thats an excellent choice, and v5e is an alot more affordable entry to vue then infinite + you do have the ability to purchase the modules or upgrade to infinite further down the track if you would ever find that you need alittle more features/control.

a couple of notes tho: esprit has some limitations that infinite doesnt, like dem import being capped to 2048, and unless you pick up botanica the trees can actually looks better in infinite then in v5e (less polys) in infinite and v5e + the botanica module you can just increase the polycount until the trees looks as smooth as babyskin.

With that said, most of the renders you see use the same standard looks as the v5e trees since most users seems to have missed that you can just increase the tree polycount until youīre happy, then again you wont notice that difference unless you do some closeups.

So nothing to worry about, just felt i should mention some of the differences that might not be obvious.

Dale B
03-20-2005, 06:24 PM
If you are an animator, be aware that the Esprit line is limited to 5 nodes in the network rendering system; only Vue4Pro and Infinite have the upgrade packs to expand the basic liscence.

Walli
03-25-2005, 06:24 PM
Hi,

I also made some tests of Xfrog plants inside the ecosystem feature of Vue5. Works pretty fine.
Hereīs the link to the render:
http://www.wallis-eck.de/bigger/bachlauf.jpg

All grasses and plants modelled with Xfrog.

best,
Walli
P.S Is it possible to set up a batch for GI baking?

BillSpradlin
03-25-2005, 06:38 PM
Looks nice but still suffers from the grainy renders I've seen coming out of this software :/

digefxgrp
03-26-2005, 05:43 AM
Looks nice but still suffers from the grainy renders I've seen coming out of this software I noticed the same thing. What's causing that? I see it in most Vue renders. It's unfortunate if that's the best the package can do. No matter how many bells and whistles they add, it's meaningless if the render quality is below what other 3D packages can produce, especially in an animation environment.

Craig Paup
DEG

Walli
03-26-2005, 06:55 AM
its more than 10.000.000 polygons (and all leaves are made with alpha maps, the same is true for grass blossoms). The render took about 2 hours. I think this is pretty okay.
I think the grainy look comes from the GI settings (quality to minus 1, if I remember correctly)
If I have some time, Iīll see if this getīs better with higher quality settings.
By the way - I remember the "talks" about some of the hype renderers like Brazil and so on, there the grainy look was "considered" a feature. Donīt know why everyone hates Vue for that look.

best,
Walli
P.S I heard that thereīs also a upcoming patch improving the look of alpha planes/ billboards - perhaps this will also help

MikeBracken
03-28-2005, 03:30 AM
Hello all. Im a Studio Max user, but am very interested in Vue. Ive seen some amazing renders on the web. My buddy just got Vue5 ,and the render times are LONG. Any tips for speeding up render times without lowering things like GI and AA ? I know when I render large scenes in studio max / mental ray I get pretty good speeds with GI + AA + FG. Im interested in Vue, but am concerned about render times.

Thanks for any response.

Walli
03-28-2005, 07:28 AM
this time with higher AA settings and higher GI settings
http://www.wallis-eck.de/bigger/bachlauf2.jpg

grainy look could be minimized, but rendertimes are much higher. But I went with standard quality settings, so I think thereīs potential for improving speed/quality ratio

MikeBracken
03-31-2005, 01:30 AM
walli........very nice man!

Swissphil
03-31-2005, 05:34 AM
Yesterday I got my copy of Vue5 Infinite.
I hoped to plug it in my workflow to get Poser Models easily into Messiah:Studio for rendering. With easily I mean with their textures applied :)

It imported the Poser model fine, but when you try to export the Poser model to another format (wanted to convert it to Lightwave as this integrates well with M:S) you get a message that Vue will not export Poser models. I assume they do it to protect the copyright on Poser Models. As Vue has more import / export options, I'll try other ways to export the model as a fully textured Ligthwave model - I hope I find a way. I'm just too lazy to apply all the textures manually in M:S ;)

Other experiments will be about the integration with C4D..this will be fun!

By the way, I'm totaly amazed by the speed of their delivery. i got he mail on Tuesday evening that they will ship it and it would take (as I'm outside US) up to three weeks until it arrived. Well, Wednesday afternoon, the box arrived in my office - just one day later! :bounce: :bounce:

BillSpradlin
03-31-2005, 07:38 AM
Hmm 2 hours for the previous render, what time did this last one have? Also posting your computer specs would be nice so I can get a feel for where our renderfarm is going to fall time wise. Thanks.

didier13
03-31-2005, 03:04 PM
i've bought last year World Constructor Set 6.0 http://www.3dnature.com/wcs6info.html

this software use a very good rule of nature (go to see the gallery page and movie page) and has many features to import / export scenes within other 3d app.

Someone who know vue can tell if Vue Infinite is equal than WCS ?
thanks

richcz3
03-31-2005, 03:57 PM
There was more terrain programs than I was aware of and I read up on each of them. There's World Construction Set, World Builder Pro, Terragen, MojoWorld and of course Bryce.
Comparing feature to feature, I think Vue offers the most for the asking price. Right now the big question is the render times for broadcast quality video animation.

Bob Gerber
03-31-2005, 06:11 PM
i've bought last year World Constructor Set 6.0 http://www.3dnature.com/wcs6info.html

this software use a very good rule of nature (go to see the gallery page and movie page) and has many features to import / export scenes within other 3d app.

Someone who know vue can tell if Vue Infinite is equal than WCS ?
thanks

I too am a WCS 6 user and a past Vue user who has been disappointed with every previous version of Vue. I labored mightily to decide to try Vue 5 i and decided it was worth the risk because of the following reasons that are my own personal views and tastes:

WCS6 is terrific but it is very, very hard to master. If you like the WCS workflow then you are perfectly suited for advanced architecture interfaces like XSI. The VUE UI is much easier for me to understand. Yet I think WCS is better established as a proven and reliable system. On the other hand, I think VUE 5 i offers (promises, at least) some great features that WCS does not yet have and WCS development takes place at geologic time scales. My gamble is that VUE will deliver on at least half of the great features that they promise with Infinite. By "deliver", I mean that the features really work, as advertized. Even if it takes software updates through something like VUE 5.5 to make good on their promises, they will still be ahead of any likely WCS innovations from our friends at 3DNature.

These are obviously only one person's view offered to merely share my personal thinking about the question you posed. I do not want to start a rant but this is how the world looks from the little rock I live on (or under, depending on the time of day).

Oh yes, one other big plus for Vue. My copy of Infiinite has not arrived so I don't know for sure but I haven't read any mention of the dreaded DONGLE. :thumbsup:

Bob Gerber
03-31-2005, 06:17 PM
There was more terrain programs than I was aware of and I read up on each of them. There's World Construction Set, World Builder Pro, Terragen, MojoWorld and of course Bryce.
Comparing feature to feature, I think Vue offers the most for the asking price. Right now the big question is the render times for broadcast quality video animation.

I certainly would agree that VUE offers huge capability advantages over Terragen but, perhaps taking you point too literally, it is hard for me to compare VUE for hundreds of dollars to Terragen for free and decide that VUE offers more "for the asking price.":)

didier13
04-01-2005, 02:15 AM
i agree with you Bob when you say that WCS is terrific. About the difficult to use it, i think it's the case at the biginning but after no.
I also think that it's features are much more powerfull than that Vue that i've tested (trial version). Concerning Vue 5 Infinite, i don't know because there's no trial to test.

Check out these links of Works done wih WCS to give you an opinion "VS" Vue 5.

http://www.3dnature.com/anim/DE_NLCD360x240x15_50.mov
http://www.3dnature.com/anim/Marquette360x240x15_30.mov
http://www.3dnature.com/anim/NearHome360x240x15-40.mov

I'm wainting to test the trial of Vue 5 Infinite to make my own opinion of this app.

regards

richcz3
04-01-2005, 03:11 AM
No doubt, Terragen is one heck of a gem for the $100 commercial license (Free for hobbiests). It's hard if not impossible to match that price...but...the features list also sails well below what I need to accomplish my projects. Oh and Terragens clouds are hands down superior to Vues. Hopefully Vues developers are going to up the ante now that they've launched Infinite.

pixym
04-01-2005, 05:28 PM
Hi richcz3 (member.php?u=47017)

You will let me know your results with camera matching with Lightwave, because I really want to buy Vue 5 Infinite for backgroung.

Thanks in advance.

Megalodon
04-02-2005, 01:52 AM
Oh and Terragens clouds are hands down superior to Vues. Hopefully Vues developers are going to up the ante now that they've launched Infinite.

That's for sure! I was hoping E-On would continue to develop Ozone for Lightwave but that's pretty much over. I DID mention to them that they should check out Terragen for clouds - so HOPEFULLY they are listening and will improve their cloud simulation. We shall see!

Megalodon

CGTalk Moderation
04-02-2005, 01:52 AM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.