some questions for Lightwave users

[fwtep]

Before I start, let me point out that I'm part of pmG, not just a user.

The good thing about messiah's texturing system is that if you want to use it like LW's, you can, at least to a certain degree. For example, below is the Basic Properties block, which as you can see is somewhat the equivalent of LW's "Basic" tab. The little "+" buttons are pulldown menus that let you add things like texture maps. When there is something being used, the + is replaced with a number indicating how many items (texture maps or other shaders) are connected to that input. For example, in the image below, there is one shader (node) attached to the Luminosity channel and two shaders attached to the Bump channel.

http://www.projectmessiah.com/forum_stuff/BasicProperties.jpg


And here's what the shader flow looks like. Note that the "Rivets" image map is used for Bump AND Luminosity. This is much easier to do than in LW and easier to look at and comprehend, because you can actually SEE what the inputs are getting rather than having to click into the "T" Texture Editor.

http://www.projectmessiah.com/forum_stuff/BasicPropertiesNodes.gif

When you select one of the nodes (Wings is selected above) it brings up the block for that on the left side of the interface. So if you select Rivets, the Basic Properties block will be replaced by the Texture Map block ("Rivets" is the name of the texture map). The Texture Map block lets you do what LW's Texture Editor does.

So for the most part-- or at least as a beginner with messiah-- think of the Shader Flow as just sort of a visual aid to let you get an overview of your texture. Once you get more advanced you will see that it's really so much more than that. For example, in the image above, note the blue + sign at the connection for Luminosity. That's the blend operator, and it's set to Additive. Another cool thing is that you can instantly toggle individual connections or entire nodes to do render tests.

I hope that helps at least a little. I'm sure others will chime in with their thoughts too.

Fred

[Suricate]

If you compare the m:s renderer with LW, m:s's strong points are
- fast global illumination,
- sublevel displacement,
- SSS,
- highly flexible shader flow.

Among the weak points are
- creasing issues with subpatches (though will be addressed in subsequent updates),
- no real fur/hair solution yet
- a lack of post-processing filters.

Two things that might get you started on understanding the shader workflow are the tuts of Julez4001 here (http://flarenova.com/Msx/) and the (free) documentation of Thomas Helzle's AoN Shaders here (http://www.screen-dream.de/AoN_studio.htm)

[tjnyc]

Before I start, let me point out that I'm part of pmG, not just a user.




Fred,

This sounds like an ad for the Hair Club for men.http://www.cgtalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[pnoland]

I don't know Tony, wasn't the guy from the hair club for men a member as well as the president? :P

I'm not a lightwave user but I did come from Cinema 4d (well, I still use it...but still) and I found the interface and node based material editor pretty easy to use. It took a few tries to figure it out but after doing the supplied basic shading tutorial it clicked with me and I could see how helpfull having the node based system was compared to Cinema 4D's which I'm assuming is similar to Lightwaves in some ways. I havn't tried animation yet, which is my next step though, but from what I have plucked around with it seems really fun and easy to understand so if you're already familiar with animation then it should be no problem for you to pick up...but the renderer is definatly amazing in Messiah. The GI is pretty fast compared to other renderers I've come across...

[biliousfrog]

Thanks for your quick responses, I really appreciate it. It's also nice to get a response from someone "in the know".

It's good to know that I can still work in a comfortable fashion with messiah & slowly dig a little deeper as I get more familiar with it. I find Lightwaves layers system very easy to understand but if there's a better way to do it then I'm willing to give it a go. I must admit that I'm completely baffled by nodes, shaders etc but probably because I don't have any hands on experience with them.....I feel like I did the first time I opened a demo of Bryce:sad: ...& hopefully, when I "get it", I'll feel like I did when I made my first chrome torus:)

I'll have a looky at those tutorials suricate & hopefully be a bit more enlightened

thanks fellas

[tjnyc]

Well, another nice thing about the shader flow is that you can experiment with adding other nodes without being destructive to an existing setup. You can also use the shader flow as a means to setup multi-pass renderings. The blending operator that Fred mentions is a very usefull function, one which I have come to use quite a bit.



Cheers,

[Zethriel]

I'm actually a lightwave user and I would be interested in Messiah studio,here are the questions:
What means "no real hair/fur solution",maybe pixel filter?
Is there some commercial plug-in for hair-fur that is messiah compatible?
How many times is it faster than lightwave render?
Does it read the morphs created in modeler?
Does it read the uvs created in modeler?
Best hardware configuration to use messiah?
Thanks in advance for the answers

[Suricate]

Hi Zethriel,

I'm actually a lightwave user and I would be interested in Messiah studio,here are the questions:
What means "no real hair/fur solution",maybe pixel filter?
You can use sub-level displavement to get some sort of fur, but this is not very realistic fur

Is there some commercial plug-in for hair-fur that is messiah compatible?
Somewhen in this forum there has been a mention of porting an existing fur/hair solution from (I think) 3ds max to messiah, but I haven't heard anything about that recently.

How many times is it faster than lightwave render?
Global Illumination seems to be much faster, about other thing I don't know

Does it read the morphs created in modeler?
Yes.

Does it read the uvs created in modeler?
Yes.

Best hardware configuration to use messiah?
Well, like any other 3d program, messiah needs a fast CPU, lots of RAM and - most important - a compatible graphics card. ATI cards are a no-no with messiah, nVidia cards are considered to be the better choice (though there seem to be some glitches with the recent GeForce 6800 as well). There is an update announced that should address some ATI problems.

[biliousfrog]

well, I've just ordered Studio Workstation:bounce: :scream: :D & Lightwave 8.2:)


I've only had LW at work but as I'm planning on setting up on my own soon I thought that it was time to take the plunge....& the LW crossgrade offer is far too good to miss. I also thought that Messiah's displacement would help a lot with my M&S compo entry....I just hope that it gets here on time.....& that I work out how to use it:sad:


.........OMG I'm SOOOOOOOO excited:scream:

[9192]

How does MS work with Modo?

I recently got Modo and found it is so much in the work flow than Modeller.
In LW I have a ton of problem in animation setup, and also slow renderign time onGI that is my main paycheck. with $300 for Studio in is very interesting for me.

Thsnks,

[biliousfrog]

I would guess that it would work just as well as Lightwave. Modo saves .lwo & Messiah opens them. I know that Modo is much more but at a basic level Modo is a redesigned Lightwave Modeler, Messiah is a much improved Lightwave Layout....Therefore, by having Modo & Messiah:studio you've kinda got Lightwave +. By using those two tools you're going to be able to do just about anything that can be done in Lightwave but in a slightly smoother & maybe faster fashion.

[Chewey]

I would guess that it would work just as well as Lightwave. Modo saves .lwo & Messiah opens them. I know that Modo is much more but at a basic level Modo is a redesigned Lightwave Modeler, Messiah is a much improved Lightwave Layout....Therefore, by having Modo & Messiah:studio you've kinda got Lightwave +. By using those two tools you're going to be able to do just about anything that can be done in Lightwave but in a slightly smoother & maybe faster fashion.

No fur solution without LW means a no go for many users. I'd much rather use a combo of LW, Messiah and ZBrush.

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