Minotaur

[GoK]

Very nice!... is it based of of one of bobo's drawings by any chance? looks a lot like it...! sweet work tho man will look awsome textured.

Jody

[Por@szek]

Great. I love his head with so deatailed "face"(?). Only what I suggest too You to rescale legs for bigger and more massive. Looking for his apper part(head, arms, torso) looking a bit funny. Some weapone?? like greate two sided axe?? And I will agree with Jody. Looks like Bobo's concept. Isn't it??

[AndyBa]

Very nice!... is it based of of one of bobo's drawings by any chance? looks a lot like it...! sweet work tho man will look awsome textured.
Jody
Hey Jody, thank you.
The model is not based on Bobo's drawings though.
I saw his drawings accidentaly only after I did this model. There are some similarities but bobo's minotaur is quite different...

Actually here is my concept:
http://web3dservice.com/andyba/2D/illustrations/minotaur_illustration.jpg
I changed a little the final model though to make it more interesting.

[glynnsmith]

Nice topology.

Depending on the supposed age of the Minotaur, I'd make the horns wider, and stronger looking. At the mo, it looks like a youngster, with under-developed horns.

Also, I think the hip area could use some revision. The waist looks quite weak, in terms of this being a very powerful beast.

Other than that, I think it looks brill :thumbsup:

[AdamAtomic]

looks really good! I'd make the legs a little longer though, they look atrophied right now. great volumes otherwise!

[AndyBa]

looks really good! I'd make the legs a little longer though, they look atrophied right now. great volumes otherwise!

Hm.. the legs are bent at the moment and I'm afraid they will be too long when stright...
Which part of the leg do you think I should make longer?

[AdamAtomic]

well on a human, the thigh is the same length as the distance from the belly button to the neck, and the calf is the same length as the thigh. Your minotaurs thighs and calves combined are barely longer than the torso! It is just awkward, when so much of the rest of the character has nearly human proportions. I think you could very easily get away with making the legs an additional 50% longer - they'd still be shorter and stockier than a human's legs, but it would make the minotaur look much more natural.

[jessart]

I agree that the legs need some tweaking, I think the thighs need to be heavier. I think it would make him look a little more balanced/less top heavy and would better convey the sense of power associated with minotaurs. It is looking good though :)

[AndyBa]

Here how it looks with bigger legs. Now the hands seem too small. :)
http://www.web3dservice.com/andyba/3D/wip/minotaur6.jpg
http://www.web3dservice.com/andyba/3D/wip/minotaur7.jpg

[AdamAtomic]

much better!!

[gonemad]

About the horns, I don't know if I'd suggest making them wider but I agree that they look a little whimpy right now. Maybe make them thicker to beef (no pun intended) them up a bit and make them more imposing. Unless he's not suposed to be menacing then I'd leave them the way they are.

[keeganb]

Yes I agree with the horns issue that some people are talking about, I suggest thinking about the big horns from the Demon in the film 'Legend', at the moment your Miotaurs horns take away from how menacing and powerful it could look.

I've noticed on that last image you posted, its the sort of front view I'm critiqueing. Well if you look at the silhouette where his forearm is theres appears to be a dent rather than a smooth shape. Really its a minor thing but it caught my eye.

Other than that its looking really great, the wires looks clean and I can only image how good this will look when textured. Excellent work!

[Alistar]

Personally I like the first images more.
It doesn't look as powerful as the next image with big legs, but it has this bully caracter that I like. Like tasmanian devil from the cartoon.

On the big legs version the shoulders look weak...

[jessart]

I like the improvments made to the later version. Looking good. :D

[glynnsmith]

Having another look at your geometry, I think the thigh needs to be made wider near the hip, rather than being bulkier towards the knee.

Both on normal human legs, and your concept ref, thighs are thicker near the top of the leg. Yours look like they're tapering in the wrong direction.

It might also be a good idea to make his Glutes bigger. Either that, or he's gonna look like he's clenching all the time.

As for the shoulders, I like them. They make him look like he can kick ass, but he's not in the gym lifting 100kg everyday.

RE:keeganb_2000. I was actually thinking of Tim Curry from Legend when I made my initial post about the horns. :)

Keep it up.

[heavyness]

i also like the earlier one. he looks more agile. like if he had an axe, he could really take some people out quickly. really shows off the upper body more and makes him look more threatening.

with the bigger legs, he looks more 'bullish' and slower. but i guess it depends on what your making him for.

either way, looking really good.

[AndyBa]

Ok then :) Thank you all for your comments!
I will try to make something in-between the 2 versions.
If I don't manage to achive something I like I'll just do it my way.. :)

[FreakyDude]

I like the second one best. Makes him look less cartoony, and the arms are just about right.
He looks very healthy and in a very good shape there. In the first one, the legs just seem to weak for him to move completely freely. If he overdoes it, he might get a cramp and would have to crawl. Right now, he looks as if he can jump, run, lift heavy things, but he still doesn't look over the top muscular.
Imo, the second one is way better.

[Alistar]

Andyba, go with first version.
It has more character.. the second will be just another "cool" monster.

[cstonecg]

i like how it is comming out. it looks great. i agree that the horns do look a little off. might i suggest at least making the base of them lagrer. but then again it all depends on the texture. if you texture it just right it could look real good the way it is. keep up the great work.

[AndyBa]

i agree that the horns do look a little off. might i suggest at least making the base of them lagrer. but then again it all depends on the texture. if you texture it just right it could look real good the way it is. keep up the great work.
Thanks cstonecg, I will look into horns problem when I start texturing. :)
Thanks everyone for finding time to reply.

[ocarian]

good job :thumbsup:

interesting mod and subject

wireframe is clean
now texture :)

:scream: next ....

[Jerkazoid]

theres alot of good things about this model
but theres also alot of thing i have a little trouble with

1) area betwen wrist and arm might pinch a bit, maybe 1 more loop

2)your blending the longest of BOTH animals stance within the legs.
from the bulls knee down to toe check size in relation to bull body.
human femur check size in realation to human body.. (reaches our shoulder)
http://www.rainbowbrokerage.com/GARDEN%20ART%20BIG%20BULL.jpg
human thigh + bull calf + extended bull foot/toe + bull hoof/nail
They stand on their toes, feet extended making for a very tall minotaur
Even though ur concerned he will be too tall, i think he would be awsome in height

also please notice stance, the claf is not parallel to the ground, bull could not stand like that. think of weight and muscles (even though this is fantasy)

2b) horns, bull horns curve alot imo, i always like to think of the bull horns like what you see in Bugs Bunny cartoons
http://borndigital.com/tree/esa/ag/horns.jpg

3) too many lip loops imo, is he going to speak? especially the upper lip and nose, thats AMAZING detail compared to whats in the rest of the body, that detail could be made up with texture imo. even the ears. the expression area of eyes is fine imo.

4) thigh muscles thick areas are a bit off as said, check the locations of the thickest sections proptionaly
http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/anatomy/atlasofanatomy/plate15/images/plate15.jpg

over all id look at droping the count to 2,500. but thats me

this is looking pretty cool so far, but id like to see it looking sweeeeeeeet!

[AndyBa]

Wow! That is a really thorough reply! Thanks a lot.
At the moment I like how the horns follow the same lines as ears.
Regarding the legs, your references make it a lot clearer now.
I will experiment a little to see what i can get.

Thanks again, your effort is really helpful.

[AndyBa]

A small update.
http://www.web3dservice.com/andyba/3D/wip/minotaur_wip3.jpg

[Jerkazoid]

OH.. theres 1 more link/images i wanted to share with you... this really helped focus my attention on the subtly of acurate anatomy. i know the mesh is too low to really get in this detail, but i thought ud like to see this anyway


1)
http://mfoucher.free.fr/data/Tweak%20Forum/group_2_10_Ogota07.jpg

2)
http://srv.dns4biz.org/forum/images/elron/Kolbyjukes/1.jpg

same model, just adjusted

the progression in these images emphasize subtlties with anatomy i had trouble noticing even with my Hogarth books and life drawing

these images are from
http://kolbyjukes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=225&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

[DanVL]

Wow that's really excellent work! can't wait to see that baddie textured! I'll be following the progress for sure.

[the_podman]

Hey, AndyBa. I really like your version of a minatour. It's really unique and different. I especially like the thick feet/hoofs? It really gives him a nice shape. Only crit I have would be to start cutting in some of the buttocks muscles and deleting the edges that were left over from the initial grid-style mesh shaping/blocking. If you skin the model with the lower butt/leg area like that, when he raises his legs, his ass will dissapear.

Great work, man!

[AndyBa]

Hey, Podman!
Thank you! I am deviating from the original concept but I like it. :)
I think I will texture both of them :) And I will make them fight each other. :)
What are you saying about his ass? Should I add some edges?

[AndyBa]

Have cleaned the mesh and adjusted the form a little.
Now it has only 2490 triangles.
http://www.web3dservice.com/andyba/3D/wip/minotaur8.jpg
Thanks to everybody for replies and suggestions.

[SHEPEIRO]

still need some extra edge loops below the ass cheek for rigging purposes

[the_podman]

Sorry, Andy. He's a more detailed explanation of what I meant. SHEPEIRO's right, btw.

What I usually try to do is find the "pivot" point of the rotation of his leg and converge some edges(usually only 1 or 2 since the leg doesn't have as much mobility and the arms) to a clear "point". If you shape his ass more, when it comes to rigging, you'll know what areas to weigh on the hip and what areas to weigh on the leg. The hip's weight values need to bleed to almost the entire area of his ass muscles(gluteus maximus, if you want to get all technical) so that his ass will "pin down". when the leg is raised. This would require another loop directly underneath the end of the ass loop that would have a blended value(50% hip, 50% leg) along the verts to maintain the volume of the ass/leg.

Here's a picture I made as to how I would prepare the loops and skeleton.

http://www.rodbrett.com/minotaurMOD.jpg



This way also allows you to simplify the mesh because you've defined the pivot point so you won't need so many loops to maintain volume. Sometimes when I'm modeling, I even use colored materials and assign them to different faces of the mesh to help me figure out where to cut up the model. Hard/soft edges or Smoothing groups also help to follow the muscle contours.

Anyhow, I'm no pro so take my advice with a grain of salt, however, I've had lots of experience rigging and animating characters the last couple of months and I learnt a couple of the pitfalls by falling into them myself :)

-pod

[Andrei-Covali]

Love this character - very strong features - well balanced proportions - the only crit I have for you to pay a closer atention to the hands and palms

[AndyBa]

Hey there!
Thanks a lot for your replies.
The_Podman you are my man! :) Thank you very much for your efforts!

A_K can you give me some tips on how to improve the palms and hands?

Here is an update - I started to work on his armor.
What do you think?

http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/armoredMinotaur4.jpg

Critique is welcome as usual.

[SHEPEIRO]

i like the armour, but, quite big butt, its covering alot of the very cool geometry you have already made, i actually preffer the model without. maybe i would think about shrinking it down, for example only having one shoulder pad and arm gaurd like some gladiators. i think the hands are fine.

[AndyBa]

SHEPEIRO, I'm also conserned about this.
But I'm experimenting at the moment it's not the final yet.
Here are some more pics to see how it looks from different point's of view:
http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/armoredMinotaur3.jpg
http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/userpic/10002/armoredMinotaur2.jpg
http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/armoredMinotaur2.jpg
http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/armoredMinotaur1.jpg
http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/userpic/10002/armoredMinotaur1.jpg

[SHEPEIRO]

like the spikes on the head, i was thinking what about using a large link chain mail, that way you could get some extra detail/armour, but not coverit up too much

[the_podman]

Fantastic update, Andy. It's really shaping up! Looking really good in the "deformation" department as well. I see you've conformed the geometry of the straps to match the back cuts, very smart. Something that seriously bit me in the arse when I did an armoured character.

I also like the design. Should make for an interesting texture, you've got organic surfaces, fur, and metal. If you pull this off texturing wise, you're pretty much prepared to texture any kind of surface.

When you skin-weight him, don't forget to assign a seperate joint/bone to the shoulder pads. You'll want to be able to key it's movements independently from the shoulder. The way I set the heirarchy is by branching a joint/bone from the highest spine to the pads(instead of from the shoulder to the pads), so that when he raises him arms, the pads stay put but when he twists left and right, the pads follow. If you parent the joint to the shoulder/arm joint, you'll have to 'counteranimate' them which is a pain.(again, I learnt this the hard way from experience)


Really nice model. I'm learning a lot just by looking at it.

-pod

[johnwoo]

I really dig the armour update...the intimidating appearance has just been enhanced...looking solid man :thumbsup:...although a few more randomised spikes on other parts of the armour could keep it consistent in general....just a suggestion...all the same he looks dangerous!...damn!...Minotaurs kick ass...

[kaisasose]

Hey Andy, the Minotaur is looking really cool. I like the armour, makes it look quite menacing.

I do want to say though that while its all well and good tweaking this and moving that based on some valid crits here, for instance the extra loop Podman mentioned and variation on the armour a 'la John W. Be careful not to get drawn into changing everything written here, some of the suggestions are plain silly!!

Minotaurs are Mythical Fantasy creatues so if u came up with an idea withhow u feel it should look like dont go changing every detail to make it look more human with perfect anantomy and proportions. It'll detract from the original concept you had in mind and will probably be a less cooler piece.

THIS (http://www.ln3d.com/gp/images/gp17-15.jpg) was on the front page a little while ago. Oversized arms, covered in armour, yet still very cool. Keep up the good work!! :)

[AndyBa]

Finally started to work on textures.
It's a wip so any critique is welcome.

[MrJames]

Textures seem very painterly, may be the look you are going for, but if you want to break up the image a bit and add a few more tones, put an dirty overlay layer in photoshop (picture of meatl or grass) over your texture and then lowere the opacity on the new layer, This might make the texture a bit mor natural.

[XepptizZ]

I lke it, bit it indeed looks very paintery, try softening the brushstrokes. Also, the colours aren't very conventional,are they :P.

[the_podman]

Painterly is not nesessarily a bad thing, I prefer starting out like this and then overlaying "grunge" and skin textures later. It keeps you from not losing track of your overall light values and tonal relationships. I usually start just like this, then I render out Dust and Scratches(Filter>Noise>Dust and Scratches) and I end up with something like the "attached" image. Once I've got all the faked lighting correct, I start to build the actual skin "textures" with overlays or I just leave them painterly if I want that style. This is just one way, though. For example, I know that JohnWoo on these forums likes to start with textures and then work from that.

Looks good so far, just watch out for your saturation levels. You'll want to desaturate areas in darkness and up them in highly lit spots.

:)

-pod

[FaQ3D]

Its one good way to make the textures, keep on goin, in my opinion the color is too "cartoony" u should make it with a little bit darker green.

Good work! :D

[AndyBa]

Hey Everybody!
Thanks a lot for all your replies.
Here is the new version of the texture. Not finished yet but already close to it.

[Peddy]

its looking good man. just watch the shoulder area, the neck painted above the collarbone is much darker and it appears to isolate the neck from the shoulders. colours are better now as well.

[AndyBa]

Thanks a lot Peddy, indeed the neck area is too dark.
I will have to work on it a little. :)
Cheers!

[LordDubu]

Sweet sassy mallassy that's a tight model.

[Por@szek]

THe model is great, no doubt, and the texture is also awesome, maybe if U will add some hair on the alpha, it will give him more of attractivness.
Anyway its cool character, when U give him some great axe and put in some battle pose, will be kickass ;)

[AndyBa]

Ok finaly here is the final version of the skin texture.
Hope you like it guys! :)
I'm thinking of adding some clothing later to make it more interesting.
Also I would like to make it less symetric any ideas on how to do it are welcome.

http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/minotaur_wip6c.jpg

http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/minotaur_wip6b.jpg

http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/minotaur_wip6a.jpg

Thank you in advance for all your crits and suggestions.
Cheers!

[Peddy]

has you though of giving him hair on his back, kind of like a real bovine does? i think done right it could look really good.

[LordDubu]

has you though ...

Ali G is that you??? :P I keeeeeeeeed!

[AndyBa]

has you though of giving him hair on his back, kind of like a real bovine does? i think done right it could look really good.
I actually thought about it. But this way I will have to hide his muscles which I really like :) though I have the other minotaur which is more bull like. I will make him more hairy.
Then I will animate them both fighting. :)

[AndyBa]

Ok here are some clothes to make him look more decent.
Not textured yet.

http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/minotaur_wip7a.jpg

http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/minotaur_wip7.jpg

[LoTekK]

Wow, really nice job with the textures. And I have to say, that eye-patch thing looks awesome. :thumbsup: Can't wait to see where you take this.

[Dennispls]

lovely model and i like how the texture worked out.

[the_podman]

Nice, Andy. Looking good, keep up the great work.

I reccomend changing up the hue on his forearms, but other than that, it looks fab.

[AndyBa]

Wow, really nice job with the textures. And I have to say, that eye-patch thing looks awesome. :thumbsup: Can't wait to see where you take this.
Well I wanted to make the eye patch a kind of armor. :)
It's just not textured yet. But it really looks nice the way it is :)

The_Podman, I see what you mean. I will play a little with the hue.

[AndyBa]

Here are some more textures.
Hope you like them.
http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/minotaur_wip8a.jpg

http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/minotaur_wip8.jpg

[AndyBa]

Having some fun during the rigging process. :)
http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/minotaur_wip9b.jpg

[Stefander]

Loving the pose ;)

The textures look awesome, can you show some flats? My only small crit is that the nipple looks kind of mispositioned, but that might as well just be me ;)

I'm loving it! Bloody good job, mate!

[the_podman]

Yeah, nice work man. The colors are really interesting. I like the design as well. Nice to see it finished, now get to work on the next one. :)


-pod

[AndyBa]

Hey, thank you! :)
Here are some more shots for the shy pose ;)
http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/minotaur_wip9a.jpg


http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/minotaur_wip9.jpg

[SHEPEIRO]

yeah man love it no crits.

[LoTekK]

Looks awesome, and I like what you did with the eye patch/armor thing. Great looking textures all round.

Love that pose. :scream:

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