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traptinmyself113
03-05-2005, 11:48 PM
with just the basics of the blender game engine can u really create anything really immersive. beacause when you play the games that aare provided with the blender game kit the only get maybe 1 fps. and they have horriblle graphics. so is it really possible to make a good looking game without too much programming using the blender game engine

rakmaya
03-06-2005, 02:25 PM
Blender is more like a prototype design than a full fledged game engine. It doesn't come close to being a game engine. It does basic things and has a decent hand in many areas of game development But it lacks robusteness of the game engine.

A Game engine's sole pupose is to create real-time rendering AS FAST as possile. With that said, Since Blender is a modeler, it mix fluently with their python framework. However, many graphics engine today allows you to do that; Truevision (.X file or mdl export from Max and Maya), Cipher (mdl export from Max) Nebula (good export from Max and Maya and beyond professional support in Maya if you buy their Tollkit) etc... On the top these, these engines have one that blender doesn't; pure speed and latest features and technology.

If you are into serious gaming, you shold try some other engine for programming. Blender is good at something such as basic games like Card games, etc.... where graphical usage can be minimized to get decent performance.

daniel_arz
03-06-2005, 05:00 PM
Blender is more like a prototype design than a full fledged game engine. It doesn't come close to being a game engine. It does basic things and has a decent hand in many areas of game development But it lacks robusteness of the game engine.

A Game engine's sole pupose is to create real-time rendering AS FAST as possile. With that said, Since Blender is a modeler, it mix fluently with their python framework. However, many graphics engine today allows you to do that; Truevision (.X file or mdl export from Max and Maya), Cipher (mdl export from Max) Nebula (good export from Max and Maya and beyond professional support in Maya if you buy their Tollkit) etc... On the top these, these engines have one that blender doesn't; pure speed and latest features and technology.

If you are into serious gaming, you shold try some other engine for programming. Blender is good at something such as basic games like Card games, etc.... where graphical usage can be minimized to get decent performance.

Hey rakmaya,
You are the first person I've read that mentions the cipher engine. A while back I was doing a little research on game engines and Cipher's seemed to produce the nicest renders. The problem was that hardly anyone knew about it. Most progammers, mod-ers, game guys always pointed me towards the Unreal engine or Torque. What do you make of that? Is the Unreal engine the best to get started in gaming? and all fanfare aside, which has the nicest renders and good custom tools?

Daniel

rakmaya
03-07-2005, 08:18 PM
I have worked on Unreal Engine (Not the game, but the engine) some time ago. I can tell you that it is a real deal. However by no means it is the best. When you take the Unreal to create RPG game genre (for XBOX especially), you will run into a lot of internal things that are nasty and not well written.

So it depends on where and how far you want to take your project. I myself create games on my time (which I get very little). I am not creating any SDKs or anything (that goes against my contract!). But I can tell you that Unreal is VERY much on the top on PC. But with the game version you can only create Mod, not actuall stand alone publishable game. This means that your clients (players) has to have Unreal Tournament game installed to play your game. Due to the price, I don't think Unreal is meant to be for individuals (not unless you have a 7 digit balance in your account to pull through). Plus there are royalties which goes in with and without saying.

In a console development, there is one thing that everyone needs small, compact and yet with features that are necessary for your kind of game, NOT a general pupose game engine. That is why a lot of studios create their own game engines. Cipher deploys that policy in PC. The Code and framework is very small. It does not have that wide range of Tools like in Torque (such as the ShowTool, Terrian editor etc...). But you can create very powerful game with very less code. In fact, even when you program in C++ you feel like scripting because of the small amount of lines of code. But like I said, it does lack the tools. However the community is very lively and have developed many tools in the process. I haven't looked into this for the past year. So you have to look into this more deeply.

If you diving into Truevision3D, I would suggest that you wait and spend money on their upcoming 6.5 (which has shader support). Arrange and look into getting that. The current Truevision 3D is not so much able. It gets slow when you try to pile things. It is mostly beause of the framework which creates some calling overhead on simple functions. But like Cipher it gets the job done in very few lines of code, but it is a little slower than Cipher (depending on how far you want to push the deal).

I have used the old Torque Engine for many different things. I can tell you that DO NOT get this. The source code is very poor and comes with plenty of overhead code for anything worthwhile. There are other engines that does these in much faster and neater way.

Torque Shader Engine is on a totally different scale. It has all the abilities of Torque with fluently mixing Shader support. If any FPS, Strategy, Simulation and maybe even RPG is very good for this. I have not tried this. So my word on this is soley from what I heard from my friends who use these.

It all depends on what kind of game you want to make and 3D package you use and how well you can program. On average you should be able to do very good on Cipher and Truevision 3D. Anyone who is creating a decent game (or demo for their Resume or wnything like that) must be able to use C++ and create a game. If they think they can live in the industry by scripting they are wrong. In my experience, I have not seen anyone who come to the industry and say 'I don't ike C/C++'. But knowing scriptig and using it where it is useful is defenitly better. The reason I am saying this is game is something that requires speed and graphics. So anyone who is willing to give any of these two up for simplicity and ease of coding is not eligible to work in the industry (not for a long shot). So I don't consider game engines that say "Scriptting is better and eliminated C++" as anything worth exploring. I done my share of exploring in many such and have always hit the wall in terms of speed.

You should be looking into engines that gives to easy access to models from Max / Maya and get those models up into renderer without much trouble. Ofcourse with the features of a general game engine.:)

traptinmyself113
03-09-2005, 11:10 PM
thank you veery much for your input on game engines, are any of the ones you mentioned free?, because i have absolutely no money haha. thnx again

daniel_arz
03-10-2005, 12:43 AM
I have worked on Unreal Engine (Not the game, but the engine) some time ago. I can tell you that it is a real deal.

The kind of game I'm interested in is really an interactive drama. Not so much a shoot'm up game but a story to be told in a free environment. One of the most important things to me is graphic quality. This is why I emphasise the importance of a nice looking render. It would include many characters, and oh yeah, I'm doing this on my spare time.

Daniel

rakmaya
03-10-2005, 02:25 AM
thank you veery much for your input on game engines, are any of the ones you mentioned free?, because i have absolutely no money haha. thnx again


You can download a demo version (fully functional) version of TrueVision 3D 6.2. It is very good and for starters, it is very easy.



The kind of game I'm interested in is really an interactive drama. Not so much a shoot'm up game but a story to be told in a free environment. One of the most important things to me is graphic quality. This is why I emphasise the importance of a nice looking render. It would include many characters, and oh yeah, I'm doing this on my spare time.


The easiest games to make are shooting game. There are engines and tools that would allow you to make a shooting game by "point and click development method", but interative drama and rpg and most other genres would take decent to very involved effort from programmers and artists. All of the ones I said above gives you very good graphics depending on how much time you want to put into the game (the more the better :) ) All of them (Truevision, Cipher, Torque, Virtools and Unreal) allows you to do so with relatively the same speed depending on your profession; Some engines are very nice with 3D Designers and other are nice with Programmers. Either way at the end things will match up to the same time and effort.

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