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Iridium
03-05-2005, 06:21 PM
First off I have never created an organic model before. I am the type of person that has to work from my own mistakes and just 'jump in'. To this affect I have decided to build a cartoony moose character and learn as I go. As such I was hoping that someone would be willing to give me some hints and tips about polygon modeling.

I guess my real question is this: When is it best to create tris, quads and the like in a model? Should I only have tris?

My moose has problems where the nose meets the face. Issues also revolve around the curvature of the head. Although the model looks fine when I turn on NURMS subdivision the mesh to me looks horrible. I created tri's at the base of the ears, not sure if that's correct. Here's a picture to help me explain:

http://www.cgtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66249&stc=1

This is being constructed in 3DS Max 7.0.

If anyone has any polygonal hints I would love to hear them. I'm a newbie who is doing this for fun. I'm addicted to modeling btw, i'm guessing that's normal.

Thanks for making this the outstanding community that it is and all the help or crits you can provide.

TC

Don Kayote
03-06-2005, 04:55 PM
Your model has no real topology and you have tris in the oddest of places. But you shouldn't worry about tris and n-gons. It's not 1995 anymore :)

Think of poly modeling as like building mountains and valleys.

There's always a base and a tip. Then you just add loops between the base and the tip to make the mountain from a Piramaid to a juicy mango. :P

And there's no need to make your quads uniform. The idea is to shape form.

Hope this help. And welcome to CGTalk! :)

JamesBPM
03-06-2005, 06:52 PM
You can always view some of the wire shots found in the Speed Modeling Threads...

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=114551&page=1&pp=15


Also a good idea to follow a few tut's in the begining, just to learn about topology issues, while also attempting to put your own dimentions and definitions to things... in otherwords, while it's nice to see people posting thier tut results, but it is even better to see em post unique chars stemming from what they have learned from said tut's.

Don't really know of any tut's for a moose right off hand, but I am sure that if you search around you might find one, or maybe one for a horse, which once you get comfy with the general flow for the horse you can try a few takes towards a more moosy like look :D

have fun time ok :)

billrobertson42
03-07-2005, 02:44 AM
I'm new to 3d modelling. I just read the wings 3d manual, and it was the first thing that made sense to me about polygon modelling.

steffenoid
03-07-2005, 04:34 AM
But you shouldn't worry about tris and n-gons. It's not 1995 anymore:)

Wow. way to completely fly in the face of about the first piece of advice every modeller on this forum gets and holds as their golden rule. Except Stahlburg. Whatever.

Anyway, I would recommend drawing yourself some reference images. I'm not a very good drawer, but I always do this and recommend it to everybody, because it forces you to think about proportions and specific detail

-Vormav-
03-07-2005, 06:09 AM
Your model has no real topology and you have tris in the oddest of places. But you shouldn't worry about tris and n-gons. It's not 1995 anymore :)
Yeah, they fixed all of the problems with pinching and shading errors years ago! http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif




...Anyway, you should stick to quads as much as possible. A few tris and 5-sided polys won't kill you, but they can subdivide very awkwardly, and give you a lot of problems. Looking at the ear in your mesh, there's at least 4 diagonal edges you could remove (don't forget to remove the connecting vertices, too) to get the connection point to be all-quads. And in general, you're probably going to want to add some more edge loops to get the right details in on the base mesh for it to subdivide the way you want it to.
Just keep practicing it, though. Modeling with subdivisions takes awhile to get used to.

Iridium
03-07-2005, 04:50 PM
Awesome thanks for all the great feedback.

The moose is now using reference drawings.

I've started worrying about Topology issues... or maybe i've had too much coffee and it's made me anxious.

Thank you for the suggestions on quads and tris. To express my lack of modeling knowledge to it's fullest "what's an edge loop?". I'm guess this is a diamond shape?

Then you just add loops between the base and the tip to make the mountain from a Piramaid to a juicy mango. :P Ok the moose is now a mango ;) j/k

Alright I will have to keep tinkering with all your suggestions and maybe the moose will come to life.

montclaris
03-08-2005, 09:21 AM
Iridium,
If you want terminology definitions and howtos for subdivision surface modeling, i think this is the place to start :
http://maxrovat.sns.hu/subdiv/subdivmodeling.htm
Browse to the end of the page for edge loop definitions and examples.

Edit : forgot to link to this other valuable reference : http://www.ogle.com/articles/digital_sculpting.pdf

Iridium
03-08-2005, 02:24 PM
Very cool and thank you for the links! I do quite a bit of hand drawn art with charcoal, pencils, paint etc. CG is a completly new arena for me :).

All the info I recieve will help immensely.

montclaris
03-08-2005, 02:34 PM
Welcome then, it's nice you join the crew.
Don't smoke on board and be carefull not to piss off the captain. ;)

Iridium
03-08-2005, 02:35 PM
AHHHH EDGE LOOPS!!! Ok. Great articles. So the use of edge loops will not only create more realistic contours and shape but also allow for better movement and manipulation if I decide to animate.

Awesome.

:thumbsup:

Iridium
03-08-2005, 02:35 PM
Which one is the captain?

;)

Don Kayote
03-08-2005, 02:54 PM
Which one is the captain?

;)

The forum leaders. All hail the Leaders.

They are the Gods of this place and ruler of everything that is pixely.

They deserve your highest respect. But you can kick them in the shin if you get to see them in person. :)

Iridium
03-08-2005, 03:15 PM
Yes... hail the leaders (they can't read my thoughts, right?)

They are the Gods of this place and ruler of everything that is pixely.
May our vertices align and our meshes smooth almighty pixel Gods.

But you can kick them in the shin if you get to see them in person.

Most people appreciate a good kick in the shins.

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