Seattle Bill Would Hold GameWash Makers Accountable For Players' Actions

[Bpanting]

I have so many things I could say to reply to that article, but any sane person already knows how stupid this sounds. Maybe someday people will learn to take responsibility for their actions and not look for something, or someone else to blame. :banghead:

I doubt it would be passed into law anyway.

[Projectkmo]

"The Devil made me do it!!!"

Now, put me in an instatution for a year or so....and then let me out so I can do it all over again.....

Its just another way for people to weasle out of the crap they did.....

Youre either a smart/good/normal individual that has been raised well enough t know right from wrong.....or youre not..... Games are not any more responsible than TV, Movies, Peer Presure and more importantly....how these kids Folks raise them....

This bill is lame! More emphisis needs to be placed on those who are raiseing these kids....as we are talking about juveniles....kids under 17...

well, thats just my feelings about it.

[KolbyJukes]

first off, nobody under the age of 17 should be able to get their hands on a game rated 'M', if some stupid clerk sold it to kid, or the kids parent bought the title, then it's their fault and they should be held accountable - the ratings system is there for a reason.

second off, how stupid are children these days? honestly? And if we're gonna start holding game companies responsible, then the same law should apply to movies, tv shows, toys, even commericals aimed at children. I really wish parents groups would stop pawning off responsiblity, if a kid goes off a kills another kid, it's not cause of a video game, it's cause of the parents.

[lovisx]

Youre either a smart/good/normal individual that has been raised well enough t know right from wrong.....or youre not..... Games are not any more responsible than TV, Movies, Peer Presure and more importantly....how these kids Folks raise them....

I wonder if people know just how many attrocities have been commitied by "normal people" because of idiologies and beliefs. What creates these idiologies.....?

You can have a perfectly normal person who is developing a belief system or idiologies or myths or whatever in their lives and those ideals slowly change them. And sooner then later they find themselves doing things and hanging out with people they hadn't before.

Take the French Revolution. People overthrew the government (which was probably for the best) but once they threw it over they started developing strange beliefs, like everyone in the jails are spies for the king. So what did they do, they dragged everyone out of the jails and started cutting off the heads of anyone who was suspicious looking. What caused this, a simple idea, a simple idea that people in the prisons were working with the king. Which turned out to be quite false. These were normal people before the king was over thrown who after they had the power did what they want with the ideas they had started inacting them.

Even take the nazis, one basic idea, where did that lead them. I'm pretty sure the nazis were normal people before the war.

Or take "End Game" a book about the war in Bosnia. Perfectly normal people who were friends before, turned very quickly to killing each other. Over what? an Idiology of an ethnically pure country taught to them through generations and the all powerfull tv set.

so what are video games, what is the media, I've met many people who believe what they see on television and are more then willing to follow it. Is it because they're not normal? no it's just because they're not educated enough to see the difference. They aren't reading their history books. They scoff at everything and take little time to analyse. Thinking for some reason that everything they do is right, and that there is no regrets. So that's society.
A society that loves war and killing, and if we can't do it in person we'll do it simulated.

How many people believe in the image of beauty that tv and the media presents? I'm hard to find one friend, even the most educated who aren't influenced by it. Where has this image taken us. For some "normal" people that image makes them feel so bad about themselves that they kill themselves trying to achieve it.

I think the media should be held accountable for any lies and misconceptions it breeds. And if it's selling more games because people like games about killing, I think it should be held accountable as an influence. If your parents read you books about you killing people as you grow up, I think they should come into account when that child starts killing. Why not the media? The media is the idiology of millions of people all over the world these days and can sell whatever ideals it wants, and it sells the ideas that appeal more to our senses and which are more shocking to us. No one controls it, everyone says its impossible to sensure so we don't even try.

lets put the blame on ourselves for not shunning something that influences children and helps them have a totally twisted view of what's acceptable. And lets shun ourselves for not producing work and making art that expresses the good in the human spirit and lifts us to higher levels of understanding and wisdom.

I think it's fine that if someone produces work that influences people to want to kill and to gain money and power from killing, that they should recieve a hit on the hand if someone picks their idea up and runs with it.

In my opinion he who influences the idiolgy influences the action.

[lovisx]

but anyway, yeah, people are responisble for their actions and should take the blame for what they've done. I just feel that whatever influences them and teaches them should have some of the blame as well, and be held accountable for what it teaches and sells. If this happens maybe companies will be less open to making games about killing, especially if their game, which they purposely made brutal was one of the sources of the crime commiters ideals

[lovisx]

and it can be proven that it was.
etc.

[Bpanting]

I just feel that whatever influences them and teaches them should have some of the blame as well, and be held accountable for what it teaches and sells. If this happens maybe companies will be less open to making games about killing, especially if their game, which they purposely made brutal was one of the sources of the crime commiters ideals

Yeah, but these games are not intended for kids to be playing them, and if kids are playing them its the parents fault for not properly supervising them.

[lovisx]

well unfortunatly in todays society the family is being broken up left and right. The parents just can't be there. How many single moms are there or single dads? How many people don't have enough money to surpervise their kids all day? We can't just cut everything down to, well the parents should raise their kids better, cause it's not that simple.

I don't know what the statistics are. From what I understand crime is down statistically.
But take into account a scenario where a kid suddenly finds out his two greatest heroes mom and dad are breaking up. His mom gains custidy starts working full time. She doesn't have enough money to pay for a baby sitter so the kid is either alone in his house or playing in the streets or at a friends house. His mom comes home and is tired and only has strength to sit with her child and watch tv. Well, that kid is going to grow up with the ideas he learns wether it be at home by himself, at his friends house playing video games, or with his mom fifty fifty goes that kids going to grow up with some weird ideas. And its not so much his fault, because that's the way he grew up. Mom didn't have enough time, his friends always had more money, and he feels insecure about how other people regard him, especially after his mom and dad break up. The ideas of drugs gangs and stealing and killing for money may just appeal to such a kid.

If we lived in a perfect world where families stayed together and there weren't money hogs that argument would most certainly hold. The parents would be totally to balme for not keeping their kids from such garbage. But in todays world I think it's fifty percent parents fifty percent media. Its a lucky few who grow up with their family intact, it by far is not the majority.

[balistic]

Stupid laws make me want to kill. Will the Washington Senate be liable if I do?

[mattmos]

Games are not respoinsible for someone's social situation. It's just a way to try to cover up much larger problems in society. Why do governments shy away from tackling the real issues and pin it all on the media all the time...

[Schwinnz]

I say, welcome to Canada ! Leave till' you still can. ;)

This is complete BS, blame the parents, blame the tv, blame newspapers, blame everyone but the guy who did the dumb stuff.

[RazzMataz]

Various people have raised good points on both sides of the issue in this thread. I have something to add to the discussion;



Freedom of expression.



Now, this ability of ours, (in most of the free world anyway,) is what is great about living in Canada or any other country that shares this way of thinking. The price you pay for that freedom is that people who you very much disagree with have just as much right to express themselves on public and private platforms. Be it in politics, social issues, movie scripts, media outlets etc.

You get the good with the bad, with people’s perceptions rendering a lot of material subjective.
Once you start trying to cut content because you are in disagreement with it, for whatever reason, you throw a rather big wrench in the freedom of expression machinery.
But there has to be better ways of limiting the exposure of the obviously offensive and detrimental material to children.



Upon saying this, I believe that the caregivers of children, those responsible for the upbringing should be more responsible for censoring what their children are exposed to, when they are at their most impressionable age.



The system we have today is flawed, but laying blame for individual actions such as murder on a product that is, in itself, not an advocate to REAL LIFE murder, is not the solution.



Btw, I have worked in the game industry for the last six years, so I am somewhat biased… ;)



Peace.

[-Vormav-]

You know, I almost wish that they would just make it illegal for anyone to sell 'M' rated video games to a minor, just so we don't have to deal with this crap anymore.
I'd like to say that this is one of those obviously retarded laws that wouldn't stand a chance at being passed, but a lot of stupid laws have been passed in the past...

EDIT: Whoa, that post just sounded awful without the "'M" rated" in there...

[Per-Anders]

just make the retailers who sold the game partially responsible for the gamers actions instead. that'll (a) make them consider exactly what they sell to whom and take age ratings a bit more seriously, (b) make them consider what they stock and where. this will in turn be passed on to the games industry.

[SkullboX]

Freedom of expression.
Oh come on.

Whether or not you see lots of blood, guts and brain splash out of mangled corpses has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

Yes, in our overrated 'free world' we have a lot of means to express ourselves and I'm sure it are (if any) all the games with highly emotional, political and social messages that get people to kill others. Newsflash, games are hardly a narrative artform and I've yet to see a game that actually uses the freedom of expression in a constructive way.

Surely you can push the boundries of 'freedom', but I doubt Canadian broadcasters are allowed to show hardcore pornography at 8 in the am on a saturday morning. Same thing, and it's pointless to defend, just like defending the depiction of explicit voilence and gore through freedom of expression.


Yes, parents are responsible for minors and retailers for selling games to them. No, game developers are not responsible if some kid shoots another. But nobody is seriously complaining about the lack of pornography or explicit voilence during the day on tv. Kids shouldn't be allowed to see that so the governments of most (if not all) 'free' countries restrict it. You could say parents are responsible for what kids see on tv, yet we are more comfortable with the government restricting us in that sense of freedom so we don't have to worry. How is this so different from game developers and publishers?

You could argue (and probably willl) that TV is a public medium unlike computers and games - but as long as computers have internet you're not fooling anyone. It's becoming a problem the governments cannot solve simply by restricting sales to age groups so they're looking for ways to reduce the objectionable content and they're desperately trying to put pressure on developers. I like my blood and pieces of skull splashing across the screen on the barrel of my shotgun - but we can all agree that not everybody should have access to it, especially kids and putting the blame on parents is a cop-out if you realistically look at the situation.

[RazzMataz]

" - but we can all agree that not everybody should have access to it, especially kids and putting the blame on parents is a cop-out if you realistically look at the situation."

Thats exactly what I was trying to say in my post. You will also notice that I said that the current system is flawed, meaning that yes, that the fact that anyone, any age can access anything on the net for example.

I wasnt trying to make freedom of expression an umbrella corporations, or whoever, can just hide under. I was saying that its a fact of life, we chose to live in a country with it, we then have to deal with all that comes with it. How we do that is a work in progress, nor do I pretend to have the quick and easy solution.

It doesnt really start to deal with cross-border law/regulation issues either, which the net kinda circumvents, but thats a whole other enchilada.

Peace.

[lanedaughtry]

Yes the bill is ridiculous and a band aid on a bigger problem.

However, the important thing here is that we make our opinions heard by the senate so this type of legislation isn't passed. Its been beat before and I'm sure that it will be seen as the type of needless law that it is.

I do however think that there should be penalties for selling innapropriate games to minors. Just like you can't sell porn, rated R movies and smokes to minors. That type of system actually helps our industry in my opinion.

-L

[lovisx]

I think that's the most important, that minors not be sold this type of entertainment. I still find it disturbing that adults find it entertaining, but at least spare the minors. I'd even go as far as saying adults that permit children to play these games be punished at least with a slap on the hand or a fine.

Perhaps its a stupid law, I didn't read the article. So I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anything in the article. I'm just going on the idea of someone being punished for spreading ideas of hate and killing, that influence others to hate and kill. Sure we have freedom of speech and we can use that freedom to make money, but I believe there is a line to draw. With every freedom comes responsibility.

A lack of responsibility for ones actions even in speech, leads to an abuse of that freedom.

that's the basic underlying issue in my opinion.

[balistic]

Instead of trying to kid-proof the world, we'd be much better off if more people would world-proof their kids.

[NanoGator]

I might be more receptive to this idea if a game that sold 10 million copies had 1 million kids acting stupid for it. Instead, we're getting 1 or 2 kids blaming a game for something they did that sold like 8 million copies.

I wonder if I can play with dynamite then sue Warner Brothers.

[Q_B]

If its not videogames, it's tv. Or music. Or education. Or bad parents guidance. Or all mixed together.

Accept it. There will always be some people who, at some time, by some thing, just turn wrong and do a bad thing. It was always like this, it will always be, and it won't change.

Every case is a case, and generalisyng won't help. Let the courts do their thing and, in each case, determine the right circumstances and penaltyes.

Lately we've been getting this kind of trended acusation stuff. Alot.

As Nanogator said, it's like one in 8 million. This is not representative in any way. Let's close all banks because, frankly, thei're a much bigger temptation to commit crime than videogames. Or ban miniskirts... or ... or ... well it's endless.

This is simply an unsolvable question. The problem here is turning it into a BIG issue, wich frankly it isn't.

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