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Andrei2k
03-03-2005, 03:54 AM
Okay I have had a lot of issues figuring out the trick to outputting from Premiere to a DVCAM tape using a GV-D300 miniDV Deck.

Heres where the output is coming from/going to:

I am doing effects and titles on captured footage using above hardware/software from a Sony editing system and DVCAM DSR-80.

Once finished when I output from Premiere two things happen:

1. Output to DVCAM tape works but once DVCAM tape is inserted into DSR-80 it doesnt "roll" timecode and a "manual" play record upload has to be done on the Sony system. How do I output with timecode and is it a locked or unlocked audio issue? I usually dont even output audio, is that my problem??

2. Quality of footage once back into the Sony editing system is not as good as original footage pre-effects/titles. Is this related to fields? are these two issues related? I am so confused and frusterated and havent found a solution for 6 months.

P.S. I know DSR-80 uses insert-editing and GV-D300 deck doesnt but even on a new miniDV or DVCAM tape when I output from firewire the DSR-80 still wont read that theres timecode. ALso on the Sony editing system you cant freeze frame on a tape that comes from premiere/GV-D300, u have to manually capture first then everythings ok. But client is constantly annoyed at not getting timecode.

I did provide timecode once while experimenting every single output i could imagine but i dont know what i did!! and havent done it since.

vedo3
05-13-2005, 03:57 PM
I have found your post looking for the answer to the same question. As there is nobody with the answer on the entire Net, I've spent some hours with Premiere and found the answer. The DVCAM portable recorders/players dont work well with 48800 Audio Sampling. You have to change it to 32000. How to do it? - when you start new project, in the very first window pay attention to Audio. For example, you have the option in DV/PAL to start new project with 48800 or 32000. It means (in case you don't know):
48800 - two audio tracks after wou do export, very high quality
32000 - four audio tracks (where 1st=3rd an 2nd=4th), high quality

Don't worry, nobody notices difference in quality.

Finaly, don't ask me why it records the Timecode only with 32000, I don't know. I'm professional Cameraman / Editor in one of the biggest TV stations in the world. My deapartment works with DVCAM equipment, but Non-linear edit suits have only DSR-V10P to do capture and export. I'm insisting for long time to buy DSR-11 that works as the analog-dv-analog converter, beside being DVCAM recorder/player.
This solved problem for me, for my DSR-V10P. I hope it will work for you.

Andrei2k
05-13-2005, 04:51 PM
Thank You!!! I will give it a try the next project I will need DVCAM for and I will reply here if it worked. That is very if this is the problem considering at time I have no audio layed down. This works if you set it to 32000 even if theres no audio?

vedo3
05-13-2005, 10:30 PM
Here is the thing:
Even if your audio tracks are empty, on the export procedure Premiere trasports the audio. In your case - silence at 0 dB level. As I could guess, if you choose 48800 audio, there is too much information to be transported, so there is no space for Timecode (TC). Don't forget that Timecode is the Audio Track. This morning I've tried seven different DSR-V10P with 48800 audio in project, and they all do the same: No Timecode. I've tried "Play+Rec" from the VCR and result was the same. I just couldn't beleive that all seven VCR's were broken. Next step was to try "Play+Rec" without any input connected. In that case there was Timecode in each frame. So, conclusion is: with no input or with only analog input VCR uses internal TC generator. As soon as it understands that there is digital input (DV-Firewire), internal TC generator doesn't generate TC but follows the external audio order to conclude the TC.
One more interestin thing: Even with 48800 in project, my DSR-V10P after recording, reads the Timecode with no problem. But any other machine (in my case DSR-70P, DSR-1900, DSR-2000 and DSR-60P) doesn't see the TC. Even do, if I hit "Still" the machine shows Black instead of frozen frame. With project 32000 audio it works perfectly in any machine.

I hope this will help you, let me know after you try it.

vedo3
05-14-2005, 10:58 AM
I've just discovered that as you choose 48800, some decks, like my DSR-V10P, records Time Code and Control Track at 48800 as well. That way, they can read it fine, but when you put the tape in other VCR (like DSR-80P, DSR-1800P, DSR-60P etc.) they can't understand it well, because they need 32000 TC and Control Track (CTR). When you record something on those kinds of VCR's, choosing recording option 48800, they do it 48800 but they record TC and CTR at 32000. So, that is the explanation.

Let me explain you what is CTR in case you don't know:
Control Track (CTR) is one more audio track recorded on the tape. Since the very beginning of Video Tape Recorders (VTR) and later Video Cassete Recorders (VCR), analog ones, CTR was invented. CTR is the audio track that collect information of two very important things:
1) When one VTR or VCR records on the tape, it does with certain speed of the tape running through the system. Now imagine what happens when you put the tape in other VTR or VCR. As there are no two motors in the world running exactely on the same speed, the other VTR or VCR would play it on its own speed. So, that would be the mass. Because of that, CTR records information of the speed while tape or cassete was recording. When you put recorded material in some other machine, CTR sends the information of the speed needed to plays the video well.
2) The same procedure is for Video Head Drum rotating speed. Like above, the CTR takes car of the information for that speed.

If CTR fails, there is no stable video and TC.

I've learned all about CTR many years ago when I started to work as TV professional. But about this CTR problem between two DVCAM machines I've found out yesterday.

In the future, tape is going to end. Everything will be on Hard Disk only, and editing will survive as Non-linear only. The latest information about future editing I've got is:
- Betacam SP (analog) does't exist in manufacturing anymore
- Betacam SX (digital video and audio, some analog audio) has just stopped being made
- Betacam Digital (digital - superior quality) is still being made, but not for a long
- DVCAM (digital) is close to shut down
- XDCAM (digital - Hard Disk) is now actual, no tape, no CTR as well, only Non-liner editing

If you need some more informations let me know. I'll help if I can.

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