PDA

View Full Version : general polycounts for characters in games these days?


Grooveholmes
02-12-2002, 01:16 AM
Does anybody know general polycounts for characters in games these days?

Counts of interest....

Grand Theft Auto 3(PS2)

Metal Gear (PS2)

FFX (PS2)

Return to Castle Wolfenstein (PC)



Thanks

chrislomaka
02-12-2002, 02:17 AM
if it's any help, HomeWorld (PC) makes it's highest res ships at about just under 500 polys.


http://www26.brinkster.com/clomaka/

Nobody
02-12-2002, 06:49 AM
An animator from 3DO recently said in an IRC chat that the polycounts for characters can run from 2000-5000 these days. He works primarily with consoles, so I don't know if that's all he's referring to, but there you go.

Shogun
02-12-2002, 07:37 AM
I know a guy who works as a lead artist for Sony & he told me that main characters are around 2000 & npc's around 1500.

suck
02-12-2002, 10:36 AM
Anywhere from 1000 to 10000 is reasonable these days, depending on the game.

GTA3 I would say is on the low end. Their chars are segmented and use a few LODs, with the head being the only part that morphs (besides maybe the hands)... I'd be surprised if they were more than 1500, even with the high detail head active.

MGS2... this is a tricky one, since their modelers are so skilled and their renderer so sweet that it's hard to pick out the triangles. Again, they throw a lot of detail into the face for closeups, but I would imagine that most of the time they're pushing around a 2500 poly guy.

FFX... Is undoubtedly the most poly heavy of the bunch. Again, no solid figures but from what I can tell you're looking at 5000 with the high poly head and hair active.

RTCW... hey check for yourself I'm sure you can load their models into Blender or Gmax. The look like they're around 2000 to me.

But if what you're looking for is a general guideline for how many polys to put in a character for a demo or something, I'd say aim for 3000 and if you go higher it's no big deal. Just make sure you actually put those polys to good use. ;)

bit

Michael
02-12-2002, 03:37 PM
You can only import the head models from rtcw, yet...
And theyre around 300-350 polys each. Wait....maybe u can import the AI models form SP...im not sure tho.
To me the models look like the standard 1500+ polys.
The other games, I have no idea.


Michael

subagio
02-12-2002, 07:37 PM
It all depends really. I have no solid figures for those games (hard to say really without having worked on them. Anything else is a best guess), but I can say that poly counts will vary wildly in the next year.

If your renderer is capable of fancy material effects, then that can potentially drag your poly count down again. Anything that wrecks tristriping can bring it down as well. How you animate it changes the count as well. Because there are multiple models for all of those operations (including how you tristrip!) the actual polycount will be all over the shop.

For reference, the game we're doing now looks to be able to throw 3000 polys around per character no sweat. We're doing in game cutscenes, and it looks like we'll be able to go significantly higher on the closeup models.

--C

BoBo-the-seal
02-12-2002, 07:59 PM
The average right now for PC is 1000 (NPC's and lower end engines) to 5000 (boss characters and higher end engines)
The key is the number of characters on screen at a given time, the effects that will be on the character, and the detail of the world geometry. If it's 2 or 3 characters you might be able to get away with 2000 poly models on a good engine with dynamic LOD (level of detail). If it's more characters at a time, for instance a town, the polycount should be as low as possible. In most boss battles it's just you and the boss in a room together. You can push the polycount up in this case.

Consols have a bit more freedom at this time. There polycounts can be a bit higher do to the fact that the developer doesn't have to make sure the game works on multiple systems. You have a specific spec and again depending on your engine and your LOD you can create characters as high as possible within the seen before it begins effecting performance. This is also why you see more games on the consol that support bump mapping and light maps and in the case of the xbox, Geforce 3 specific functionality.

If you are creating assets for a demo real I think itís helpful to do multiple characters under specific guidelines and state that in your portfolio.

Here is an example of some of the task I am given to work from on a PC title: (note, Iím also usually given a description and/or a concept to work from)
500-700 polies for a base creature that you might fight multiple of at a given time.
1000 polies for a basic NPC
1500 polies for a humanoid enemy if itís silhouette warrants that high a count.
2000 for key characters
2500 for the hero
3000 - 3500 for sub boss
3500 Ė 4500 for bossís if itís silhouette warrant that high a count.

Oh and just because you have a certain number of polies to use doesn't always means it's best to use them. The lower you can get within your budget, without affecting the quality of the model, the better. The engineer model I did was 1350 polies.

I hope this help.

BoBo

Grooveholmes
02-12-2002, 09:24 PM
HEY, Thanx guys. You've been a big help.

The Magic Pen
02-12-2002, 10:30 PM
I personally think you can base current poly budgets on what massivly multi player games are doing. Starwars online for instance recently mentioned that there NPC models are 3000 polys and I know for a fact that many of there creature models are 5000+ polys .It really does depend on what platform you are talking about though

In my opnion the fallowing would probebly be close.

PC : 2000- 3000 polys for character models

PS2: 3-5000 polys would be pretty normal

Cube : 3-8000 polys is absolutly normal

x-box : 5000-15,000 poys is normal.

I do personal work on my portfolio from time to time and I usually shoot for 2-3000 poly models but there are certainly none forward thinking art director types who would toss your portfolio in the trash if you sent them anything over 1000-1500 polys. Then again I don't want to work on projects who shoot for the lowest budget PC's . Well unless it was the sims ;)

I think that once you can get 5-10 poly characters how much more realistic do you need to get?? I wish they would put there efforts into things like RAM technology so we can use higher res textures and bump maps and other things that can give game models are more realistic feel. Ohh and some real-time lighting would be nice.

With like x-box 2 and PS3 we are gonna say"hey maybe we can build 10-20,000 poly models but at what expense??" I mean it already takes huge amounts of time to build and texture characters soon we are going to be moving into FILM time with these models ( 3-8 weeks :O )

Tad
02-13-2002, 06:42 PM
Well, I used to work at 3DO,
and many of the characters I saw, were only around 1500 polys,
we were planning on upping it to around 4000 right about the time I left.(ps2 stuff btw)

But some ps2 games have some insanely high poly characters
silent hill2 has probably the highest poly characters I've
ever seen in a video game, i'm guessing they're well above 5000

subagio
02-13-2002, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by The Magic Pen
I think that once you can get 5-10 poly characters how much more realistic do you need to get?? I wish they would put there efforts into things like RAM technology so we can use higher res textures and bump maps and other things that can give game models are more realistic feel. Ohh and some real-time lighting would be nice.

With like x-box 2 and PS3 we are gonna say"hey maybe we can build 10-20,000 poly models but at what expense??" I mean it already takes huge amounts of time to build and texture characters soon we are going to be moving into FILM time with these models ( 3-8 weeks :O )


... Well, I know we'll be using it. It's not that hard to soend a good 10K wisely if you really want to. Organic forms are all curve, and we've learned to accept a segmented line as a curve, and draw in the rest into the bitmap, but actually having more polys in means more response to the light, something that a bump map can only do at hight frequency. Heck, 20 K would still be easily spendable. Ram will increase as a matter of fact, and is only currently constrained by the price. Any new Ram tech that emerges will automatically be too expensive for a console, so we can ignore that for now.

Most important paradigm shift will come when we switch rendering architectures. The Xbox is silly powerful, but at heart it's still old school draw everything. It kinda does occlusion culling, but obviously without transparencies. The big next leap in graphics hardware has to come when we begin having enough fast ram to do hardware raytracing, which would let us build renderers like high end renderers, i.e. cast a ray from the camera into the scene, evaluate the point of impact. At that point, programability should be more all encompasing too, letting us do things like SDS realtime, displacement, real bump mapping (since you're evaluating perpixel anyway, the normal is already there) real antialiasing, all sorts of muck. Especially things like oversampling, where the focus is on getting the image quality up, instead of just fancy effects. Ahh... the revolution is yet to come.

--C

wanzai
02-13-2002, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by The Magic Pen
I mean it already takes huge amounts of time to build and texture characters soon we are going to be moving into FILM time with these models ( 3-8 weeks :O )

So how long does it take to build a character, in average (if anyone know enough datas to compare, that is)? Or how long do _you_ need?

For modeling, texturing, skinning (basically from scratch to animation-ready), I need for:
- a simple enemy with up to 1500 polies and standard biped-skeleton: about 1 week
- an important character like player/NPC or boss with up to 4000 polies, incl. facial setup and other special animation constraints: about 2 weeks

I'd like to know how I'm doing in comparison, since my boss is pushing me like mad (although not as stressful as it may sound).

Cheers,
YC

spyder79
02-16-2002, 11:25 AM
the company i work for our characters are around 8000 poly's for Xbox. some a little more some a little less... then again, there are only 2 on screen at most.. however, the xbox is very powerful and can push alot. as for how long it takes to model a character. takes me 1 day for anything around 2000 poly's. 8000 poly characters took around 2 to 3 days to finish.. another day for texture and one more for rigging.

Tudor
03-19-2002, 06:59 PM
-- I'd like to know how I'm doing in comparison, since my boss is pushing me like mad (although not as stressful as it may sound). ---




I get about 3 days to model a 3500 poly character and do the bone setup. I don't do the textures nor the UV map though.

The characters with a higher polycount (10,000 - 20,000 polys) takes me about 5-6 days to model and rig.

Modelling in LW. Setup in Maya.

spakman
03-20-2002, 04:41 AM
Originally posted by The Magic Pen
I mean it already takes huge amounts of time to build and texture characters soon we are going to be moving into FILM time with these models...

closer than ya might think.... :D

Dyrn
10-22-2004, 06:17 AM
when people say 'poly' in terms of polycounts, do they mean a quad, or a tri? It seems sometimes the terms are used interchangeably, even though one is twice the other, and I'm never sure. Seems pretty crucial to me, though.

Antrim
10-22-2004, 06:42 AM
My understanding is that 'poly count' refers to the number of tris in a model. Even though your modeling program counts a quad as 1 poly, it is split into 2 tris when you export it to the engine.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong about that...but that's what I've always thought it was.

suck
10-22-2004, 01:26 PM
It refers to triangles. All major consoles and PC Graphics cards deal natively with triangles and not multisided polygons.

NeptuneImaging
10-22-2004, 03:14 PM
Well, guys, Dead or Alive Ultimate may have around 20,000 polygons per fighter, and Tao Feng: Fist of the Lotus uses around 15,000 polys. The Alyx model for HL2, is around 7600 polys I just got finished modeling a 10,000 polygon character and I think I am satisfied (the head is very detailed in shape). It was not my intention to model that high but hey, we are going to eventually...

CGTalk Moderation
01-13-2006, 02:00 AM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.