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Chuck Baker
03-01-2005, 04:11 PM
NewTek Announces New Competitive Upgrade Offer
3D Artists Get Opportunity to Try Award-Winning LightWave 3D with Special $495 Pricing on Full Commercial Licenses

NewTek is pleased to announce a limited time, best-ever competitive upgrade offer for LightWave 3D. Users of a select set of 3D graphics and design applications will be able to purchase a competitive upgrade to LightWave 3D for $495US. Current users of LightWave 3D will be able to add an additional seat at this price as well, allowing them to affordably run the software on multiple computers. The promotions are available today through NewTek authorized resellers, or directly from NewTek through April 30, 2005.

For the complete text of the press release, link to:

http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/03-01-05a.html

(http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/03-01-05a.html)

jeffthomann
03-01-2005, 04:23 PM
That's the same price as an upgrade for those of us that already have lw7. I wish that I had the cash on hand, but I don't at the moment...

fyi
Pricing and Availability
LightWave 3D® Electronic Full Competitive Upgrade is available for $495US, for registered owners of Maya(TM), Softimage(TM) XSI, 3ds max®, Electric Image(TM), Strata Studio Pro, Cinema 4D(TM), Truespace(TM), Hash Animation Master(TM), Autocad®, Pro/Engineer® and SolidWorks®. Proof of ownership required to qualify. Registered LightWave® owners will also be able to purchase an additional seat of LightWave® at the $495 price. This special offer is available through April 30, 2005, from any Authorized NewTek Reseller, from NewTek's web site at http://www.newtek.com/buynow (http://www.newtek.com/buynow) or by calling 1-800-843-8934, overseas callers dial +1-210-370-8000. Find a local NewTek Authorized Reseller at www.newtek.com/dealers (http://www.newtek.com/dealers).


I may be wrong about this but I think that this may be one of the few (first?) cross grade offers in the industry for truespace...

titaniumdave
03-01-2005, 04:33 PM
"upgrade" :D

Srek
03-01-2005, 04:33 PM
I may be wrong about this but I think that this may be one of the few (first?) cross grade offers in the industry for truespace...

Nope, Maxon is offering a cross grade from truespace for years now.
http://www.maxonshop.com/cgi-bin/us/gp?pg=products/cinema4d.odyssey&sid=&uid=mx//WhUqYImYYcY&aid=&cid=100&rn=278
Cheers
Srek

Chuck Baker
03-01-2005, 06:59 PM
We have never so departed from courtesy as to post any of our offers or news on a competitor's announcement thread. Guess we're just a little old fashioned, though.

M.E.L.
03-01-2005, 07:24 PM
I do believe that Srek did show courtesy in answering another board users question in regards to the cross grade offers. I am also aware that Alias and Softimage both did this at one point as well.

Maybe you are just old fashioned. :shrug:

imashination
03-01-2005, 07:40 PM
Srek replied to someone's question directly, I was about to post the same myself but he beat me to it. I believe several of the main 3d apps allow crossgrades from truespace, there are quite a lot of users still out there oblivious to how far 3D software has advanced. We could quite easilly dig up a few discourteous posts from yourself to the cgtalk manager, but we're not quite that up ourselves. :thumbsup:

Chuck Baker
03-01-2005, 08:02 PM
1) It wasn't a question. It was a comment. Being a follow-up to our announcement post, it did not require that an employee of a competitor use it to promote their similar offer.

2) While other companies may also have offered competitive upgrades for Truespace, I have not seen them posting messages about and links to those or any other of their offers on the announcement posts of their competitors. Last time I checked, that was considered an inappropriate behavior. If it's now common practice, we have no plans to join in. Do you feel we should reconsider that? :)

3) It's possible to disagree in a courteous manner, and I do my best to do so. If you feel I have failed on those occasions where I had a difference of view with the manager, by all means email or private message me about the particular instances, and I'll do my best to improve in future.

M.E.L.
03-01-2005, 08:09 PM
1) It wasn't a question. It was a comment. Being a follow-up to our announcement post, it did not require that an employee of a competitor use it to promote their similar offer.

"I may be wrong about this but I think that this may be one of the few (first?) cross grade offers in the industry for truespace..."

Correct me if I am wrong but the "?" does warrant it being a question that NewTek was the first to offer this...

2) While other companies may also have offered competitive upgrades for Truespace, I have not seen them posting messages about and links to those or any other of their offers on the announcement posts of their competitors. Last time I checked, that was considered an inappropriate behavior. If it's now common practice, we have no plans to join in. Do you feel we should reconsider that? :)

I see your point but I must also address the fact that this is a public board and that facts do roam quite freely. It may be 'disrespectful' in your eyes as a business man of the company, but in the publics eyes this is simply the informative process. Be it inappropriate in your eyes or not, that does not justify trying to pin one of the moderators as showing a lack of courtesy in answering a board members question.

3) It's possible to disagree in a courteous manner, and I do my best to do so. If you feel I have failed on those occasions where I had a difference of view with the manager, by all means email or private message me about the particular instances, and I'll do my best to improve in future.

As a board policy I believe it would have been better of you to have PM'd Srek to sort out whatever differences may have been incurred instead of making the post towards him like you have. As a consumer myself I can safely say that reactions such as this are what taints the images of products and companies in my eyes.

Thank you, have a good day.

-shawn

Srek
03-01-2005, 08:16 PM
We have never so departed from courtesy as to post any of our offers or news on a competitor's announcement thread. Guess we're just a little old fashioned, though.

I'm sorry Chuck if this came over in the wrong way, this was definitly not meant as a stab on you or Newtek. I just wanted to comment on a statement that i felt was not correct/complete.
I don't see those offers as exclusive things, rather than additons to an artists toolset. Competitive upgrade offers are a cheap and good way to extend your knowledge and options, especially since Newtek and Maxon both don't require the user to choose one over the other.

Cheers
Björn

paulrus
03-01-2005, 08:18 PM
Sometimes this board just cracks me up.

So if you're at a business dinner with a potential client and a direct competitor walks up to your table and starts talking to your potential client about taking business away from you, you'd be ok with that?

This is a thread about NewTek's announcement - not about any and all products which offer a competitive upgrade to Truespace. And furthermore, I don't think Chuck would have reacted if a regular user would have posted that information. The fact that an employee from Maxon chose to thread crap is what was inappropriate.

Sometimes I get the feeling that a lot of folks on this board have been sitting in front of a computer far too long and need some social interaction with real people.

Paul

Ejecta
03-01-2005, 08:19 PM
Or for the same amount of money you can get XSI foundation. :twisted:

Chuck Baker
03-01-2005, 08:30 PM
I'm sorry Chuck if this came over in the wrong way, this was definitly not meant as a stab on you or Newtek. I just wanted to comment on a statement that i felt was not correct/complete.
I don't see those offers as exclusive things, rather than additons to an artists toolset. Competitive upgrade offers are a cheap and good way to extend your knowledge and options, especially since Newtek and Maxon both don't require the user to choose one over the other.

Cheers
Björn

Thanks, Bjorn; sometimes it's easy to let our enthusiasm get us crossways. ;)

As for (first?) the answer to that would take digging back lot of years. This isn't the first time we've offered competitive upgrades for any of these products, and our first time would probably have been better than a decade ago. Maybe yours as well. Given that I knew that, no, this doesn't seem like anything but a rhetorical question (those do happen in life ;)) as opposed to one that someone should be diving in to answer. Apologies, because clearly the "old fogey" point of view I have on the matter doesn't seem to mean much for most. :)

policarpo
03-01-2005, 08:38 PM
Does this mean there is a demo of LW8 for people to test out if they are interested in the offer?

Chuck Baker
03-01-2005, 08:41 PM
Does this mean there is a demo of LW8 for people to test out if they are interested in the offer?

Our customer services folks can send out a demo edition on CD on request. We currently do not have a downloadable demo edition.

Bulldog
03-01-2005, 08:43 PM
Does this mean there is a demo of LW8 for people to test out if they are interested in the offer?


I second this ,

A 30 day trial would be great.

policarpo
03-01-2005, 08:43 PM
Our customer services folks can send out a demo edition on CD on request. We currently do not have a downloadable demo edition.

Good to know for those out there who might be interested. But you might suggest to whomever that you guys get a downloadble version up. People are lazy and would rather download than call these days.

Good luck with the offer.

Chuck Baker
03-01-2005, 08:51 PM
Actually, we do plan to provide a downloadable version, and rather than being limited in the current manner (the user cannot save any object in excess of 400 points), it will be a time-limited demo, most likely 30 days. Engineering has not yet provided a timeframe on the work needed to make this change, so I can't estimate when it will be available.

Cman
03-01-2005, 09:18 PM
Actually, we do plan to provide a downloadable version, and rather than being limited in the current manner (the user cannot save any object in excess of 400 points), it will be a time-limited demo, most likely 30 days. Engineering has not yet provided a timeframe on the work needed to make this change, so I can't estimate when it will be available.

After removing my dongle, and going into "Demo Mode", I can save an object of over 400 points, so long as no more than 400 points is in any one layer.

I cannot save a scene file, but I can render full rez - just beware the watermark! :)

policarpo
03-01-2005, 09:22 PM
After removing my dongle, and going into "Demo Mode", I can save an object of over 400 points, so long as no more than 400 points is in any one layer.

I cannot save a scene file, but I can render full rez - just beware the watermark! :)

Edited by mod

trygve
03-01-2005, 09:48 PM
Actually, we do plan to provide a downloadable version, and rather than being limited in the current manner (the user cannot save any object in excess of 400 points), it will be a time-limited demo, most likely 30 days. Engineering has not yet provided a timeframe on the work needed to make this change, so I can't estimate when it will be available.

That's great news!

I'm an hobbyist, and there are problably a lot of us out there. I do 3D because I love to create. In my opinion, LightWave is the best and cheapest solution today for 3D hobbyist, if you compare price to what you get in the package. Cinema4D is the closest competitor when it comes to ease of use, but it's full package much more expensive, and there is not nearly as much learning material for new users.

I got my taste for LightWave from a Discovery edition from a magazine. I also tried Cinema4D, but LightWave is... different. It was instant love :-)

Cman
03-01-2005, 10:46 PM
Well, if you launch Modeler and Layout and then remove your dongle, you can plug it into another machine and run it flawlessly on both machines without limitations. Although, you aren't supposed to do this since it violates the terms of agreement you agreed upon when purchasing the software. :)

Edited by Mod

policarpo
03-01-2005, 10:47 PM
Really?
I didn't know that.
Doesn't the dongle get damaged when removed while the system is on (parallel)?

Oh...i meant the USB. :D

nuclearfessel
03-01-2005, 11:05 PM
NewTek Announces New Competitive Upgrade Offer
3D Artists Get Opportunity to Try Award-Winning LightWave 3D with Special $495 Pricing on Full Commercial Licenses

NewTek is pleased to announce a limited time, best-ever competitive upgrade offer for LightWave 3D. Users of a select set of 3D graphics and design applications will be able to purchase a competitive upgrade to LightWave 3D for $495US. Current users of LightWave 3D will be able to add an additional seat at this price as well, allowing them to affordably run the software on multiple computers. The promotions are available today through NewTek authorized resellers, or directly from NewTek through April 30, 2005.

For the complete text of the press release, link to:

http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/03-01-05a.html

(http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/03-01-05a.html)

Hey Chuck,

i have a quick question for you...

I am a user of PC LW who never upgraded after 6.5. I would like to upgrade to 8. But i am no longer on the PC. I am a Mac user. Is there a chance that i could purchase the Mac upgrade and send in my dongle to get a USB dongle to work on my powerbook.

Thanks

Faisal

policarpo
03-01-2005, 11:06 PM
Hey Chuck,

i have a quick question for you...

I am a user of PC LW who never upgraded after 6.5. I would like to upgrade to 8. But i am no longer on the PC. I am a Mac user. Is there a chance that i could purchase the Mac upgrade and send in my dongle to get a USB dongle to work on my powerbook.

Thanks

Faisal

LW as of 7.5 ships as a DUO Dongle and Dual Platform. So you will get both versions with your order. I think the new dongle will run ya a $100 or so.

Chuck Baker
03-01-2005, 11:25 PM
Hey Chuck,

i have a quick question for you...

I am a user of PC LW who never upgraded after 6.5. I would like to upgrade to 8. But i am no longer on the PC. I am a Mac user. Is there a chance that i could purchase the Mac upgrade and send in my dongle to get a USB dongle to work on my powerbook.

Thanks

Faisal

Just purchase a regular upgrade, and let the customer service folk or your reseller know that you need to exchange the dongle for the new USB duo. NewTek US waives the dongle exchange fee when the user is purchasing an upgrade.

nuclearfessel
03-01-2005, 11:32 PM
LW as of 7.5 ships as a DUO Dongle and Dual Platform. So you will get both versions with your order. I think the new dongle will run ya a $100 or so.

I went to http://www.newtek.com/buynow and it lists the Dual Donle/Dual Platform as being listed only for:

Electronic Full Competitive Upgrade
Standard Full Competitive Upgrade
Electronic Full Add-A-Seat (you need to have a seat of LW8 already for this)
Standard Full Add-A-Seat (you need to have a seat of LW8 already for this)
Electronic Full
Standard Full

nuclearfessel
03-01-2005, 11:34 PM
Just purchase a regular upgrade, and let the customer service folk or your reseller know that you need to exchange the dongle for the new USB duo. NewTek US waives the dongle exchange fee when the user is purchasing an upgrade.

Thank you very much, Chuck. that was exactly the info i needed :)

policarpo
03-02-2005, 12:12 AM
Hey Chuck,

Is there a chance that i could purchase the Mac upgrade and send in my dongle to get a USB dongle to work on my powerbook.

Thanks

Faisal

BTW: Which PowerBook version do you own? LW8.2 doesn't work on my PB 15" Titatium with the ATI 9000 card (Selected Vertices do not show up in my viewports, and it makes it impossible to model in 8.2...7.5d was the last usable build of LW for my particular Mac).

You might want to get on the horn and order one of those LW Discovery CD's Chuck was talking about before dropping your cash to make sure it is going to work for you on your PowerBook configuration (there are weird issues with the Mac version of LW that has kept a lot of us up late at night...just have a look at the Mac forums for LW at http://vbulletin.newtek.com to do some research).

Cheers.

nuclearfessel
03-02-2005, 12:18 AM
BTW: Which PowerBook version do you own? LW8.2 doesn't work on my PB 15" Titatium with the ATI 9000 card (Selected Vertices do not show up in my viewports, and it makes it impossible to model in 8.2...7.5d was the last usable build of LW for my particular Mac).

You might want to get on the horn and order one of those LW Discovery CD's Chuck was talking about before dropping your cash to make sure it is going to work for you on your PowerBook configuration (there are weird issues with the Mac version of LW that has kept a lot of us up late at night...just have a look at the Mac forums for LW at http://vbulletin.newtek.com to do some research).

Cheers.

I have a 15" Aluminum Powerbook that came out on NAB last year... i have run LW 7.0 Discovery Edition (from the Discovery CD that Newtek gave out during Siggraph 01) on it with no problem and the OpenGL got much better on it ever since Apple released 10.3.8...

i know that 6.5 through 7.5 had issues with the graph editor... i haven't really played a lot with it but i have yet to have a crash even in discovery mode

harmonic01
03-02-2005, 12:25 AM
"Users of a select set of 3D graphics and design applications will be able to purchase a competitive upgrade to LightWave 3D for $495US"

HAHA, I love it how they call it an "upgrade". :-)

unclebob
03-02-2005, 12:41 AM
whats the difference between Electronic Full and Standard Full besides the $100.00 $

SatoriGFX
03-02-2005, 01:16 AM
whats the difference between Electronic Full and Standard Full besides the $100.00 $

A printed reference manual according to Newtek's site.

Adam.

gristle
03-02-2005, 09:34 AM
Am I blind? Had a look on Newtek Europe for prices, but did not see this offer displayed anywhere... is this a US only offer?

jeffthomann
03-02-2005, 01:29 PM
I'm sorry to do this Chuck, but here's a question that I need answered just for clarification... would the early versions of the competing software apply? http://www.download.com/TrueSpace/3000-2186_4-10298420.html is the reason that I ask. Proving ownership of that would only require the little email from Caligari with the serial number I think?

Zarf
03-02-2005, 03:02 PM
I kind of had a similar question... I have a registered copy of cinema4d CE (the thing they gave away free with magazines). I was actually hoping that motionbuilder or Zbrush would be on the list of apps accepted for the competitive upgrade, but all I have that is on the list is the C4D CE license :shrug: Heres hoping, beccause at 500 dollars, LW8 would be hard to pass up! :bounce:


Cheers,
Zarf

policarpo
03-02-2005, 03:05 PM
I kind of had a similar question... I have a registered copy of cinema4d CE (the thing they gave away free with magazines). I was actually hoping that motionbuilder or Zbrush would be on the list of apps accepted for the competitive upgrade, but all I have that is on the list is the C4D CE license :shrug: Heres hoping, beccause at 500 dollars, LW8 would be hard to pass up! :bounce:


Cheers,
Zarf

Isn't the Core package of C4D 9 like $595 or something? If you like the workflow of C4D, you really won't like the workflow of LW. Just get the demo and see what I mean. At times it will feel like you are going back 10 steps just to do something which should only take 2 steps.

It would be smarter for NT to run the deal at Siggraph as well (unless of course they plan on revealing something at NAB which would be cool), so users could actually see what's in store for LW, cause my confidence level as a long time LW user is at an all time low with where LW is going. Thank goodness I got a hold of C4D when I did. It's made this past year a great one for me.

Cheers.

RobertoOrtiz
03-02-2005, 03:15 PM
Can we stop the software pissing contests?
The topic of the thread is the Lightwave upgrade, not the pros and cons
of other software.

So stop it.

-R

policarpo
03-02-2005, 03:27 PM
I don't see anyone pissing here Roberto. We're all being very civil and obliging. I think the deal is a great one, but it would be better for demos to be available to the users as downloads (people hate calling on the phone to get stuff-they always feel that there is a catch), and as far as the advice about Siggraph 2005, I think the NT offer should extend to then as well so users can have a better idea of where their investment will take them.

We're not all seasoned users here, so any information people can provide to people so they make the right decision is a good one. People need info in order to gain knowledge.

This is the type of information Marketing people love to hear. It's what makes for better products and experiences. Sorry if you think it's pissing.

Cheers.

richcz3
03-02-2005, 03:50 PM
Poli your right in that many users here are not seasoned and they do need unbiased articultaed information if they can get it. This is helpful particularly if they can get information from users who work with those applications.

Problem is there are those who are disenchanted with the application they used at some point. They are unhappy and as a result have painted themselves into a corner of grievance. All you have to do is search for their recent posts to see how they feel about a particular app. Some (not all) have lost their objectivety and replaced it with scorn.
In short its better to play up another apps virtues than to continue to belittle another apps short comings. :)

policarpo
03-02-2005, 03:52 PM
It's just software in the end, and like I tell everyone, try it out before you buy it. It's the only true way to make an informed decision. :love:

michaeli
03-02-2005, 04:00 PM
HAHA, I love it how they call it an "upgrade". :-)


LOL, it seems to be the funniest word I've heard this year. :)

plotz
03-02-2005, 04:02 PM
>>BTW: Which PowerBook version do you own? LW8.2 doesn't work on my PB 15" Titatium with the ATI 9000 card (Selected Vertices do not show up in my viewports, and it makes it impossible to model in 8.2...7.5d was the last usable build of LW for my particular Mac).<<<

Interesting. I have the exact opposite problem. 8.2 runs just fine on my 15" powerbook with the ATI, but I occasionally get pink screens on my G5 with the nVidia card.

On a side note. Seems like the software "vets" could pool their resources and start a little company on eBay selling the old 3D tools they don't use anymore as cheap entries into all the competitive upgrades that have become a common part of the 3D business:)

Does Alias Sketch qualify:) I'll let it go for .15 cents :) InfiniD anyone?

policarpo
03-02-2005, 04:05 PM
>>BTW: Which PowerBook version do you own? LW8.2 doesn't work on my PB 15" Titatium with the ATI 9000 card (Selected Vertices do not show up in my viewports, and it makes it impossible to model in 8.2...7.5d was the last usable build of LW for my particular Mac).<<<

Interesting. I have the exact opposite problem. 8.2 runs just fine on my 15" powerbook with the ATI, but I occasionally get pink screens on my G5 with the nVidia card.

On a side note. Seems like the software "vets" could pool their resources and start a little company on eBay selling the old 3D tools they don't use anymore as cheap entries into all the competitive upgrades that have become a common part of the 3D business:)

Does Alias Sketch qualify:) I'll let it go for .15 cents :) InfiniD anyone?

Funny Idea.

Do you have the 15" Titanium with the ATI 9000 64mb card? A lot of us with PB have the invisible vertices issues with LW 8.2 (I'm not sure what changed between 7.5d and 8.2...but I don't encounter the same OpenGL bugs in other kits I use).

trygve
03-02-2005, 04:54 PM
LOL, it seems to be the funniest word I've heard this year. :)

It's normal to call it an upgrade. For instance does Eovia also offer an upgrade these days - from XSI, Cinema4D, Max and Maya - to carrara :)

RobertoOrtiz
03-02-2005, 05:16 PM
I see too many axes being grinded.
If this goes on I will close the thread
and repost it with draconian controls over it.

Stay on topic.
Wanna talk about C4d,
go here:

Maxon Cinema 4D (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=47)

having probelms with your version of Lightwave
go here:
NewTek Lightwave 3D (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5)

The topic of the thread is a competitive upgrade on an app.
Period

Wanna do a pissing match between apps,
read this thread again...
IMPORTANT: "Which 3D app should I use?" Threads... (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=19315)


-R

Berserga
03-02-2005, 09:45 PM
Amen.

I also want to know if I can upgrade from Truespace 4.3.

Kurtis
03-03-2005, 01:15 AM
Amen.

I also want to know if I can upgrade from Truespace 4.3.

As long as you can provide Customer Service with a product serial number and a faxed copy of the inside front cover of the manual, all paid commercial versions of the following programs qualify.

Maya(TM), Softimage(TM) XSI, 3ds max®, Electric Image(TM), Strata Studio Pro, Cinema 4D(TM), Truespace(TM), Hash Animation Master(TM), Autocad®, Pro/Engineer® and SolidWorks®

If you bought a commercial license of one of these products, and it did not come with a printed manual, please contact Customer Service directly. Such issues will be addressed on a case-by-case basis.

Kurtis
03-03-2005, 01:23 AM
I went to http://www.newtek.com/buynow and it lists the Dual Donle/Dual Platform as being listed only for:

Electronic Full Competitive Upgrade
Standard Full Competitive Upgrade
Electronic Full Add-A-Seat (you need to have a seat of LW8 already for this)
Standard Full Add-A-Seat (you need to have a seat of LW8 already for this)
Electronic Full
Standard Full

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. That particular page has been updated to bring it in line with the information on the other Buy Now pages.

Sorry we're just now replying to some of these questions. The flu is going around the NewTek offices.

Kurtis
03-03-2005, 01:28 AM
whats the difference between Electronic Full and Standard Full besides the $100.00 $

A printed reference manual according to Newtek's site.

Adam.

That's correct. The $495 version comes with the full 1500+ page manual in high-res PDF format. The $595 version comes with the PDF format manual and the printed version of the manual.

Oranges, Smoranges...
03-03-2005, 01:45 AM
I can't believe it, but I am actually thinking about going back LW. I hope it makes a come back. I miss that easy to use renderer...

Decade
03-03-2005, 07:23 AM
Just to ask one more question, is this an offer that can/ will apply to the UK or Europe ? As a UK resident, can I order from the US site? I don't care about not having tech support if I buy from the US.
Cheers.

bobakabob
03-03-2005, 11:48 AM
Decade,

Looks like the deal will be International :) Here's a reply from Ben Vost from the Newtek Europe site to the same question.

Stay tuned to our website for pricing information.

B
__________________
Ben Vost
mailto:ben.vost@newtek-europe.com
NewTek Europe - http://www.newtek-europe.com (http://www.newtek-europe.com/)
Europarc - 17, av. Léonard de Vinci - 33600 Pessac - FRANCE
Tel: +33 (0)5 57 262 262 - Fax: +33 (0)5 57 262 261
________________________________________________

Berserga
03-03-2005, 12:43 PM
Cool beans.

Thanks so much for the info. (Lousy Flu... I've had it for a week myself)

Now I have a lot to chew on. Learning a new app is a pain, and I dunno if I can easily fit it in my pipeline now, But I've considered LW several times in the past. As a Mirage user LW is particularly attractive as a pro 3d app for me to learn... I'd have to kiss that dream of dual LCDs goodby... Time to bang my head against the wall for a few days. :banghead:

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