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isnowboard
09-17-2002, 05:17 PM
I work in Flash all day and have starting using Lightwave at home for personal stuff. Many of my Flash shortcuts are engrained in my head and I can't forget them, especially since I continue to use them all day at work.

I've been trying to map my LW keyboard shortcuts to be similar. I've found the default settings really weird and out of convention of other apps. For the live of me, I don't know why LW doesn't default undo to ctrl-z, cut to ctrl-x, paste to ctrl-y. Seems very silly to me, as most other app on this earth uses those conventions.

// end of rant

Ok, can I use shortcut keys using ctrl/shift at the same time? Eg, can I assign a hotkey to Ctrl, Shift and "s" at the same time?

I've looked through all the options, but it doesn't seem possible. Just seeing if I missed something or a hidden trick. Your feedback is much appreciated.

isnowboard

Labuzz
09-17-2002, 06:28 PM
I am waiting too for a real custom UI ( custom Shortcut, Script Editor in modeler,...) in Lightwave. I think this can be very good for LW ( Better transition between soft ) . look at Max 5, the new shortcuts for basic things such transformation are the Maya shortcuts...This a very good idea, NT should make something...I hope in LW 8...:hmm:

isnowboard
09-17-2002, 06:35 PM
Can't wait for LW8! :) So, is it possible to combine shortcuts with ctrl and shift along with another key? If not, why the heck not? This could open up a another huge library of open slots or more hotkeys. And, it wouldn't take long for the programmer person to implement. Before I get ahead of myself, I still need the original question answered.

Proton, you're not on here 24/7? You usually pipe in with answers pretty fast. :( You must be getting tired of your job! :)

Labuzz
09-17-2002, 06:43 PM
Not possible Sorry:shrug:

CIM
09-17-2002, 07:00 PM
Well, NT needs to hire an ex-Alias programmer. If they did that, they could just steal all the tools Maya has like Max does.

Eugeny
09-17-2002, 07:22 PM
U remind me a days then i worked in small industrial design firm. I worked on SGI Indi (don't remember the number of this machine) on Alias Wavefront Design Studio (now it's Surface tools). I have mapped almost functions of program and hot keys (like in Maya space +...) ctrl+shift + LMB up, down, left , right etc. Same thing with MMB and RMB. So at home i was always trying to hit this buttons...
So u already have ctr assigned to snap motion, shift to add to selection...
May be try to change default Flash settings or better get another job? U know i simple don't have this problem because in job and at my home i have the same program :thumbsup:

Labuzz
09-17-2002, 08:30 PM
Hey CIM this can be a very good thing for LW. Look at Max...
BUT i have to say that your LIGHTWAVE OR DEATH is too much for me....LOL What do you mean with this? your in love with lightwave and Death Metal....thats why your green Head?...ARF, guy like ou make me feel Happy:beer:

isnowboard
09-18-2002, 12:08 AM
Shit. Thanks. Now I have to reprogram my brain somewhat.
Feature request for LW8: The ability to map hotkeys to different combinations of shift/ctrl + something and other combinations! :(

LyonHaert
09-19-2002, 01:23 AM
in my opinion, LW rebels against 'conventional' hotkeys for the sake of efficient workflow. yes, you have to reprogram your brain a bit, but after a short while it's not hard.

if the hotkeys were on Ctrl+Shift+[Key] combo ([Key] usually means a letter key on the keyboard), it would hinder the speed with which you can execute them. the majority of the combos use either [Key], Shift+[Key], or Ctrl+[Key]. these can be done quite easily, without actually moving the hand much. they can all be done from a simple typing position, as well. hitting Shift to modify a keystroke is quite natural in keyboard use, and Ctrl isn't too far off. however, holding Ctrl+Shift to modify a keystroke is more unnatural, and in the end will hinder workflow significantly. that's why all the basic, much-used commands are assigned by default to unmodified single keystrokes.

as a matter of fact, i wish i could map Photoshops hotkeys to be similar, so that i can press u for undo.

LightWave has a very logically designed interface. you have plenty of shortcuts to assign commands to.

"LightWave or Death" has nothing to do with Death Metal, btw, hahahaha

isnowboard
09-19-2002, 02:31 AM
@LyonHaert,

I totally disagree with you. As a right handed person who the mouse in the right hand and pressing hotkeys with their left, ctrl and shift at the same time is very easy, and natural.

For example, the knife tool (shift K) is very unnatural as your hand has to travel to the other side of the keyboard and alternate what fingers you hit shift or ctrl with normally.

I like how Maya has their setup with the QWERT etc, perfect for right handers, and well thought out. In addition, people with small hands or short fingers could even find ctrl T to drag a long stretch, and when changing selection modes, ctrl G and ctrl H is a real long stretch with one hand.

I think your idea of rebeling against conventional hotkeys, if that was indeed the case is silly. You are right, with the way LW 7.5 is, I have to reprogram my brain, but as I spend 9 hours a day on Flash, and use LW in my spare time at home, it's quite a fight to do so. The fact the option to change the hotkeys is there is nice (but every 3D program has that), but to be able to use the keyboard to the fullest would be better.

I don't think it's too much to ask as far as the flexibility for how I want to operate my software.

iso
09-19-2002, 04:02 AM
you have to remember bringing in the ability to use ctrl-shift, etc combinations doesn't impose problems for anyone already adapted to the present hotkeys, but it does allow for further flexibilty for new tools that we want a hot key for. Sometimes I find a very cool plugin that I need to assign a hot key for, and the only combination left is shift-` (just an example and there probably already is a function assigned to it). The thing is is that I have to find a way to ensure that i remember that assigned combination, when it would been easier to remember if I could have used a letter of the alphabet that related to the tool.

the only thing that I can say is that you can always customize the mouse pop-up menus to your liking which is then more like the MAYA and max tool selection style.

proton
09-19-2002, 04:59 AM
The one reason I'm against new users changing their hot keys i sthat it makes for a tuff time following tutorials and sdvice online.....I've see many people get real frustrted when the can't follow a tut or what someone has put in t tip online....


I was a heavy Freehand user before LW and I actually prefer the shortcuts keys in LW over everything else....undo "u" seems easy to remember....I also like the fact that LW uses x,c,v instead of ctrl +x, etc.

easy .....it's like anything...when you are used to something it's hard to switch over....when I bounce back in forth between programs it takes a second to remember what program I'm in...

Flash has different keys then Adobe...it'll always be that way....


and why is undo ctrl +z in so many programs....am I over looking something?

isnowboard
09-19-2002, 05:36 AM
Good points about following tutorials.

Maybe you could think about it as driving a car. The manufacturer sets the position of the rear view mirror. You have to move until its just right. That's what I want to do with Lightwave, or at least have the option. In business terms, isn't it called the "shotgun" approach. Basically, they give you something and you take it or leave it. I'm NOT saying that's the way LW is, I'm just saying it's a nice option, available from other packages.

I realize that "I could just get used to it" but I just want to look have it work specifically for me.

>>"and why is undo ctrl +z in so many programs....am I over looking something?"

It's just a convention. It's like that in Windows, other windows products, and many have adopted the convention. When that happens, it becomes a stardard. Kind of like how all browsers have the close button in the upper right corner. It could be in the upper left, but people get used to it being in the upper right corner. Just like a help link on a webpage. Usability experts say that it should be in the upper right, as that's where people will look first.

If Lightwave was the only software I used, it wouldn't be a problem, but it's not. I assume people that use LW and Maya and/XSI etc at work most likely map similar hotkeys to speed things up and avoid inner confusion. To me it just makes sense.

In the end, I could just learn to use undo as "u", and everything I've said would be mout.

I'm not worrying about using Lightwave with the future of working in a studio, and if I get accustomed to my hotkeys, I might not be able to adjust to the default ones. I just want to fully customize my software, for me. I feel like I can customize my hotkeys 80% of the way I want....why not go the extra mile?

I put a request in on the Newtek board. I don't think I'm the only one either, but there might only be a handful. I think it's a reasonable, and doable feature request. Newtek specially made an Eagle in a barrel plugin for a customer, didn't they. :)

proton
09-19-2002, 05:40 AM
yes they did :)

Labuzz
09-19-2002, 08:10 AM
I totally agree with you isnowboard...I am a Maya user at work and lightwave at home. The standard way can be VERY good for lightwave, + the QWER is very cool for me and i use this hotkeys in LW ( for example i have r for uniform scale and h for non uniform scale ).Another thing, I think LW should have icon...I dont like icon a lot but for example i am using icon for primitives ( not all of them) because when you dont have the form under your eyes you are using always the same standard primitives and you forget the other...

Steve Warner
09-19-2002, 11:04 PM
I think the reason Lightwave uses non-standard keyboard shortcuts is because it didn't originate on a Windows machine. It started on the Amiga in the early 90s (or earlier if you count the Videoscape years). When Lightwave was ported to the PC, it was already in use in a number of studios. I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that the keyboard shortcuts didn't change so as not to throw off the studios and artists already using the program.

I agree with you, isnowboard, that the shortcuts take a bit of getting used to. I spend my days working in Flash, Illustrator, Photoshop, and Lightwave. In the beginning, I would often screw things up because I was hitting Control-X or Control-V. But I have become so accustomed to Lightwave that I now find myself hitting the 'u' key in Photoshop and wondering why it's not undoing. :)

I am a right-hander myself, and have remapped my keyboard shortcuts to allow me to work more efficiently. My right hand is almost always on the mouse. With the left hand, I can now select points, polys, etc. I can deselect and drop tools, and I can cut, copy, and paste. There are only a few things I can't do quickly with my left hand and a simple keystroke.

While I agree that it would be nice to have expanded keyboard mapping in LW8, I can also echo the experiences of others who have posted. Keep at it, and you will likely find yourself wishing the other apps had keyboard shortcuts like Lightwave and not the other way around. :)

Take care!

Steve

isnowboard
09-20-2002, 01:03 AM
Amiga? Was the before or after the dinosaurs? :) I didn't think of that.

you will likely find yourself wishing the other apps had keyboard shortcuts like Lightwave and not the other way around

Wishful thinking, but there's no possible way I could spend more time with Lightwave than I do with Flash. :) I'm not saying that as a good thing either.

To add some functionality for myself, I'm going to figure out and try to customize the marking menus/context menus as some sort of middle ground until Newtek takes this thread/request seriously and implements it into LW8 :p

note: Steve, can't wait til you finish your tutorial page and those videos. I'm sure it will help others and myself. Just wanted to give you some encouragement that you will be reaching some LW'ers and your effort won't go unnoticed.....regardless of what keys you press and how you've assigned them. :)

Steve Warner
09-20-2002, 03:28 PM
Thanks for the encouragement, isnowboard! :) Glad to hear you won't be holding my deviant key-pressing against me. ;)

Take care!

Steve

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