Master Thesis "Withered" Animated Short

[HenningK]

Looks pretty damned good. The maggots sequence and the final vines sequence were especially nice. Character animation could definitely use some work though. Weight.
And if it's your masters thesis you should really spring for some orig. music.
-hen

[Krystman]

The Enviroment looks great! It's a bit hard for me to judge the Quality of the Character, though, I'm not sure what you were aiming at.
I think this is the biggest flaw in the Movie: it's very unclear and abigious. At least, I didn't get it, maybe I missed something or I'm just dumb.

I think the Music is ok, it's common to have a Temp Track in a stundent's Work. What disturbs me is that there are no sound effects. It detaches the audio from the video.

How long did it take you? Can you comment a bit on the Idea behind it?

[M.E.L.]

fmalmgren,


Overall I'd say you have put together a fairly nice piece, the only thing that stands out in my opinion is just the story line...it left me confused as to what was happening to the character, why those roots came out of him and stuff. Other crits were when he strikes his hands against the ground and against the mirror, it was very light...not much force behind it from what I could see...for someone in such agony I would suggest a little more weight in the animation :)

[chadimation]

Hey Fred! Its Chad man. Hows it goin down in MIA? Your thesis looks really nice man. Good work!! Good to see you posting it up in the forums. Hope everythings going good man...

[fmalmgren]

Thanks for the input.

HenningK (http://www.cgtalk.com/member.php?u=50088) vbmenu_register("postmenu_1993196", true); - I am pleased to hear that you like the effects. They were now all that easy to accomplish, but in the end I'm pretty happy with the result. I'll post some close-ups of the maggots later. The vines were done the traditional way (clusters on curve driven by rigid bodies and spring constraints). Yes, an original score is what I'm seeking. The music was put on the piece in haste and I'm currently working on a sound track including sound effects.



Krystman (http://www.cgtalk.com/member.php?u=20969) vbmenu_register("postmenu_1993586", true); - Thank you. The environment was one of the main focuses. I spend a lot of time tweaking the GI and the FG. In the end it looks good, but I lost much time on the animation which was put together in 10 days. Respect to Cristian Brierly, Kristopha Heastie, Julian Palacios, and Mihai (Mike) Gajga. The whole piece was put together over three quarters. The short is an abstract one, but I'll try to make clarity of it.



The creature nor dead nor living is stuck in between worlds awaiting the passing. Brought to life by the rays of the sun and drawn to the physical possessions in life. In order to put the physical behind him he must detach from the past. Doing so he is struck with immense pain as the life force is being drained out of him. The horse symbolizes his stolen freedom; maggots death and the vines rebirth. Coming to terms with whom he really is and what is keeping him in his prison (mirror) the transition begins through the vines reflected upon him and the many umbilical cords stringing him up in the ceiling like a spider web. Instead of being caught by the web he is liberated.



I hope that sense.



M.E.L. (http://www.cgtalk.com/member.php?u=42612) vbmenu_register("postmenu_1993781", true); - Thanks for the input. Well I've explained most of it.



Chadimation (http://www.cgtalk.com/member.php?u=147702) vbmenu_register("postmenu_1993904", true); - What's going on Chad? Thanks for taking the time to download my thesis. I'm glad you liked it. Good to hear from you. I'm happy to see you doing so well. See you in the field soon!



Please check in again later. I realize the site is currently down, but I'm working on getting it running again and I will add some things so please check back later!



Thanks!

[fmalmgren]

I uploaded the image sequence for Withered.

http://www.fredeffex.com/image_sequence.htm

[Krystman]

The creature nor dead nor living is stuck in between worlds awaiting the passing. Brought to life by the rays of the sun and drawn to the physical possessions in life. In order to put the physical behind him he must detach from the past. Doing so he is struck with immense pain as the life force is being drained out of him. The horse symbolizes his stolen freedom; maggots death and the vines rebirth. Coming to terms with whom he really is and what is keeping him in his prison (mirror) the transition begins through the vines reflected upon him and the many umbilical cords stringing him up in the ceiling like a spider web. Instead of being caught by the web he is liberated.


Ok, that is a very complex Message and I don't think it comes across. First, it doesn't look like the esoteric, sybolic scenario you described. It first thought of some bizzare torture chamber / prison. He's in the attic after all, which is a very physical location. I thought he was a prisoner of some psychopath. It's also unclear that he is on a journey, that he wants to get somewhere. It indeed looks like he is in a prison but breaking out wouldn't be a step further, it would be a step back to how it was before he got caught, right?

There is also no clue why the horse is interesting for the creature and what it stands for, he just runs straigt towards it and grabs it. There is no clue that the horse represents something personal for him. I didn't even recognize it as a horse. You might want to take your time to show more him examining his surroundings a bit longer, maybe showing some hints that he is dead. He might stop at the horse and take a longer look at it, possibly remembering something from his past.
You also didn't explain why he is struck with pain and why his life force is being drained out of him. The Movie doesn't explain that either. He randomly grabs something and suddenly suffers pain for no reason. It's even more strange that the Pain suddenly stops. I first thought that he squished some of the Maggots with his fist and that they caused his pain.

I also didn't understood that the Mirror was the key out of his Prison. The Vines don't look like rebirth but like some sort of mutation or plague. At the end, he doesn't look liberated but consumed.

In your description, it looks like your Protagonist solves some kind of Mystery about him. In your Movie he is very passive. The only thing he does is grabbing the Horse, the rest of the Movie he is enduring some sort of torture coming from the strange Vines. It's quite confusing and depressing, not the story of overcoming an obstacle you described.

And finaly I wonder why you used such an Alien-like Character Design? In your description, you don't mention that.

Sorry for the harsh critique. The Execution is good, but It looks to me like the concept has some flaws. :shrug:

[HenningK]

I agree on a few things with Krystman. The horse is unrecognizable as such. Regarding it more closely if its all that important would definitely help. But is it that important? This movie's about death and rebirth so why does a large secondary theme like stolen freedom make an appearance? I understand death steals a large amount of your freedom but the analogy is indirect.
I like the idea of the mirror imprisoning him. But if it's so, the mirror should make a more conspicuous appearance before the end. He should stumble by it and regard it at the beginning maybe.
The sunlight waking him is unclear: as far as I can tell the sun is just THERE after a cross dissolve, and we don't see the guy before the sun hits him. Anything could've awakened him.
Agree that the pain just ending (without an external event, a revelation, or even acknowledgement by the character) is a bit odd. And not in a good way. It looks clumsy cinematically.
Its true with a mouthless, eyeless character it is going to be difficult to get some acting points across... a doleful look at the mirror, a trepidatious look at the horse, a look of gradual calm as the vines embrace him... good luck.
-henk

[Xeom]

Hey fmalmgren Ive been looking at your college as a possible school to goto,right now im a junior ,and im realy trying to stay around MIA were my family is.

But i wanted to know how are the teachers and such, is it a very friendly and creative envirment or is it very serious?

Also is Maya the only thing you guys use for 3d?

EDIT:Also i forgot great work! i realy liked it,but i thought he could have had some more force when punching the mirror,also somthing just didnt seem right when he got up.

[fmalmgren]

Guys, Guys... Good lord you're killing me... Let's just call it an abstract piece. Those who get it - fantastic, those who don't - Oh well...



neomx (http://www.cgtalk.com/member.php?u=82039) vbmenu_register("postmenu_1995382", true); - AI in Miami is in all a pretty good program overall. Although, They have two good instructors in 3D and one might be stepping up in his career. The problem is the lack of enthusiasm with a lot of the students. The quality of work is however increasing by each quarter and they need people who are serious about their major. Keep in mind the $$$. It's rather expensive. I would suggest Ringling instead, but if Miami is where you want to stay then AIMIU is the place. If you have any questions shoot me an email instead.


Adjo...

[fmalmgren]

Forgot. They teach Maya and 3D MAX...

[bry]

Hi,

I think you have a very nice film here. The lighting, environment and mood are really really nice. The character animation has some issues and could be a lot better, but overall, the thing works.

About the meaning, I don't think you need to explain anything at all, you'll obviously have your story and your reasons for your own choices, but an abstract piece like this one should be let open for interpretation rather than be explained. That's what makes it poetic and beautiful, it's that each one can interpret it as they feel like, or however they identify with it (or not).

Well, unless you want to make your point clear and not allow for any other interpretations, which I don't think was your purpose in the first place or you wouldn't have done it so vague and poetic. :-)

Bruno

[fmalmgren]

BRY - Thanks. I appreciate that. That is the intension of the piece. I think I made a mistake trying to explain it. It is meant as an abstract piece that should affect people individually. As long as it awakes some emotion in a person my job is done. Yup... The animation could be better. However, my team only had a week to do it and I'm happy with the result considering the circumstances.

Thanks!

[colintheys]

Hi,


The visual quality is very nice. I just wonder if it is intentional that some of the glow effects at the end go outside the frame and some do not? How it is intended to be shown? because if it's to be projected, that might be a problem...?

Good work,
-Colin

[Krystman]

Guys, Guys... Good lord you're killing me... Let's just call it an abstract piece. Those who get it - fantastic, those who don't - Oh well...


Don't make that Mistake, that's no excuse. Even Abstract Art has to deal with an audience and their expectations, especially if it's a Movie. After all, we are trying to help you to improve the Impact of you Work. :thumbsup:

[fmalmgren]

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Don't make that Mistake, that's no excuse. Even Abstract Art has to deal with an audience and their expectations, especially if it's a Movie. After all, we are trying to help you to improve the Impact of you Work. :thumbsup:

It's all gravy. I'm at a point after nine months in production where I don't have that time and can't make all the changes. I have other projects to attend to and I was looking for input as well as researching its potential. I appreciate all the input.

COLINTHEYS - It is supposed to bleed at the end as to suck the break a barrier between the video and the viewer. Everything spreads out and journeys beyond its contained realm. What do you mean could cause problems projecting?

Thanks!

[Krystman]

About the meaning, I don't think you need to explain anything at all, you'll obviously have your story and your reasons for your own choices, but an abstract piece like this one should be let open for interpretation rather than be explained. That's what makes it poetic and beautiful, it's that each one can interpret it as they feel like, or however they identify with it (or not).

I disagree. That's the kind of explenation of art you would say to a child. With argumentation can justifly about anything. With the same arguments, People could (and already did) put actual crap turds into Museums, and you certainly don't want to get compare to theese kind of people. :)

Art is always a Message. If people Misundertand your Message then you have not complete control over you Medium which is a sign that you have not yet mastered your Tools. In good Art, ambiguity is intensional, not coincidal.

[Krystman]

It's all gravy. I'm at a point after nine months in production where I don't have that time and can't make all the changes. I have other projects to attend to and I was looking for input as well as researching its potential. I appreciate all the input.

Oh, it's ok, it's obvious that at this Point, nobody would go back to make big changes. My comment was only hypothetic, feedback for your future Projects. Keep it up! :thumbsup:

[fmalmgren]

In good Art, ambiguity is intensional, not coincidal.

Let's not turn this into a discussion about the the meaning of art.

[bry]

I disagree. That's the kind of explenation of art you would say to a child. With argumentation can justifly about anything. With the same arguments, People could (and already did) put actual crap turds into Museums, and you certainly don't want to get compare to theese kind of people. :)

Art is always a Message. If people Misundertand your Message then you have not complete control over you Medium which is a sign that you have not yet mastered your Tools. In good Art, ambiguity is intensional, not coincidal.

Well, I'd rather experience an art piece that tells ME something and makes me identify with it because of the personal interpretation and memories it brings me, which I like, than experiencing an art piece that I can very well understand the artist's message but that is not appealing to me and with which I don't identify at all.

This is the kind of art I would probably do if I had the chance... maybe it's not art, maybe it will just be a dumb and meaningless short movie for most... whatever...

Bruno

[HenningK]

If you wanted us to interpret it ourselves you should've refused Krystman's request to explain it.
Our critiques are about the clarity of what your film is dealing with: we DONT want the film (or filmmaker) to tell us what to think about it after we're clear. A few crits we had... the sun issue, the horse issue... these have to be resolved before we know what exactly is going on... once we know what's going on, then we can interpret. Abstraction is lovely, but when the film illicits no response because the viewers are wondering if the director was deliberate enough, that's not what you want either...
Sorry for killing you.
-hen

[Krystman]

I know that this kind of discussion gets us nowhere but.. arr.. I can't resist.. must answer:

Well, I'd rather experience an art piece that tells ME something and makes me identify with it because of the personal interpretation and memories it brings me, which I like, than experiencing an art piece that I can very well understand the artist's message but that is not appealing to me and with which I don't identify at all.

This is no contradiction here. The one doesn't exclude the other.

[bry]

I know that this kind of discussion gets us nowhere but.. arr.. I can't resist.. must answer:
This is no contradiction here. The one doesn't exclude the other.

I know we can live with both, but you're the one who was dismissing the abstract kind of art because the artist's message wasn't clear enough.
Let it also be clear that I understand your point of view and don't mean this to be any kind of thread war, this is just a "healthy" discussion based on this short film but that aplies to lots of art forms and the way we (like to) see it. As artists I think it's good to know how people see and feel different art forms or different ways to express it.

Bruno

[Krystman]

I know we can live with both, but you're the one who was dismissing the abstract kind of art because the artist's message wasn't clear enough.


Ok, right now, you mixed two things together. I don't dismiss abstract work per se. I dismiss work which has a different effect from what the Artist intended. This kind of work doesn't have to be abstract. And there is abstract work which is able to archieve a desired effect well.

As for "personal interpretation" - just because your work brings across your message well, doesn't mean that the reciepient is unable to interpret it the way he wants, and connect to it on an emotional level. In fact, emotions and room for interpretation are the message of this kind of work. If the emotions you create are different and the room for interpretations too big, chances are that you have failed. Then again, that's no big deal, might just mean that you have to LEARN being an Artist.

Btw, the Movie here is also not abstract, it's surreal.

[Self-Designer]

Man, your site seems to be down :hmm:

[pollywoggles]

Beautiful. I loved it. I got the meaning.

In some of the shots, the character still seems a bit floaty. I sometimes couldn't feel his weight. Such as at the very beginning, when he's standing and his right arm lifts off the floor-- it seems that his center of gravity is off... I was expecting him to fall back down, unstead of continuing up. Then during the walk-- I think it's your Down that misses it for me. Yeah, I don't feel the character's recoil enough.
But still... very beautiful... and haunting. Thanks for sharing it!

[fmalmgren]

Beautiful. I loved it. I got the meaning. In some of the shots, the character still seems a bit floaty. I sometimes couldn't feel his weight.

Thanks!. Good to hear other people's oppinions. I know there is room for improvement in the animation. It was done in a week. Not a lot of time to make it perfect. Still a lot of respect to my team.

ARTIST 3D - Check it again. It's working fine. http://www.fredeffex.com

Thanks,

[Self-Designer]

Yes, the day after I tried to download it again and it worked for me, thanks :)

Well, I see people have already givven you the right critics for this movie, even though you're not going to fix it. I wish you did, because you really have some good touch here. Only the story is unclear (and not by its meaning, which is ok, but in the way it represents things, like i didn't understood the rays of light woken him up, I'd put him in the dark and then show how the light moves towards him, and how when it touches parts of him, those parts get to live, till he's all alive. I don't want you to give me your meaning in a silver spoon, but the story that you do decide to give, you should give it right, still not in a silver spoon ;) ). Anyway, I'm starting repeating others' words, so I'll stop here :)

Nice effects you have there, and environment (though i would do it darker and more contrast for clearer hierarchy) - damn i'm doing it again! :D

Oh well, cheers! :thumbsup:

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